Shawn Green anyone?

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 11:38 AM CST Comment 64 comments

I realize this isn't a "sexy" acquisition all arm-chair GM's are looking for and most will probably balk at the mention of this. But I have heard that Shawn is looking to come out of retirement after his 1-year absence. His time in NYC wore him out. And the fact that he has no respect for Willie Randolph and how he was treated during the stretch run where Randolph inexplicably played Milledge over Shawn in the final 2 months after Green came back from his injury has left Shawn wanting more. The past year he has stayed in tremendous condition--prefers to go hit the weights and take swings in his batting cage versus the golf course. He stayed close to the game as well since Carlos Delgado is his best friend in the game.

He plays a serviceable RF and could spell Lee at 1B. It would not cost the Cubs ton of money. With Shawn being a devoted father and having major family ties in Chicago, it would be a natural fit. He wanted to come to Chicago when he was a FA and signed his big deal with the Dodgers.

Oustide of signing Dunn, Ibanez, or making a trade for Kubel or Hermida--signing Green, I think, would be a good option. Probably a 1-Year $3 to $5MM deal would get it done. Seattle and SFO are on the radar and have inquired about Green.

During the stretch run in Sept '07 Green posted .407/.493/.576 and a .316/.390/.435 post All Star break line. Not certainly numbers for a washed up guy.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Three words.

Spring. Training. Invite.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 28, 2008 11:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

agree--I would like to see that

n/t

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you misunderstand me...

no reason to give Mr. Green a $3-5M contract when the dude hasn’t played ML ball in over a year. If he’s doing all those things as you say, then a nice comeback is certainly possible on paper, but this is definitely one of those times when the old saying “I’ll believe it when I see it” comes into play.

If there is indeed any interest in him by Cubs braintrust, then by all means, nvite the guy to spring training and see if he can still play. If he’s old and creaky and just aint got it anymore, than it’ll be a nice “thanks for trying” pat on the back and we’re only out some meal money.

So I guess my response should have been five words.

Spring. Training. Invite. At. Most.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 2:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One Problem

Shawn Green is basically a platoon player at this stage in his career. So if you bring Green in you would either need to play Kosuke every day and platoon RJ with Green, relegate DeRosa to platoon RF, or find another right-handed hitting OF since the Cubs don’t have one in the system.

by circuitclout on Nov 28, 2008 12:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

true

last 3 year splits show .237/.311/.385 versus LHP. He hits RHP extremely well.

Good point.

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hello?

Knock, knock. Anyone home?

Shawn Green didn’t play last year, and he wasn’t very good in 2007 (you should have heard some of my Mets fans friends bitch about him that year).

Do. Not. Want. This is a REALLY bad idea.

I can’t wait to see who the next retired player is that someone will want to play for the Cubs.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 12:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kirk Gibson

would be perfect.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Nov 28, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nice

so a .316/.390/.435 post All Star break line says he wasn’t very good, huh Al?

If we judged players by fans bitching about them, then Mike Schmidt would be one of the all-time worst 3B.

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you look at his power numbers?

How many homers did he hit in that second half?

Three.

The Cubs are looking for a power bat in RF. Green has no power, or more correctly, had none two years ago. Ugh. Stay away. There are many better choices.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

As his platoon-mate we could use....

Jason Dubois….I kid, I kid

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am not so sure the cynism is that outlandish

Offering Green a minor league contract where he has to make the team is of the smallest risk. Motivation is a big part of a once established player who was another borderline all star.

Again as I have looked at the Cubs 2009 April-ASB roster strategy I see the following:

Improving the bullpen——getting a real lefty under Rodriquez/Fuentes sweepstakes. If Wood’s fiscal opportunity arises then make that happen. This means the Cubs go north with the best staff on paper with depth. This engineers that again they should be leading their division into June.

In the field they basically stand pat and go into ST offering the opportunity that Pie could play his way into a platoon situation. Now if the Cubs invited Green it would a replacement to Ward’s spot in the roster if he were able to make the team—-if he did they have a handshake deal. This would probably involve a platoon situation where Fukudome moves to CF.

This allows the club to make both money and talent deals in June and July.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 28, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we could do better.

Why get a guy who declined four years in a row and then sat out a full season?

Look at his numbers. That ought to be enough to scare you away.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

have you looked at his numbers?

You keep asking everyone else to, but fail to see that he is a pretty damn good player. Certainly performed better than Hermida and Teahen as you have suggested. His last year he posted an OPS of .856 versus RHP and a 3-year average of .812. Isn’t that the type of guy you would want between Ramirez and Lee? He is a 20-24 HR guy, not the Dodgers single-season HR record holder from past years. For all the clamor about Giles this guy produces vs. RHP just the same.

I just don’t see why it is “so out there” or in the territory of “is anyone home?” as posted. And, yes, we could do better as I originally wrote. Outside of moving Lee or Soriano or Zambrano or Marquis, we will likely not get the LH bat that everyone wants. We are going to have to get an Edmonds-type to have a good season. I think Green would be similar to Edmonds and cost a lot less.

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because he's 36 years old and hasn't played baseball in over a year.

I’d rather go after Jeremy Hermida, a young player who has upside and would be a lot cheaper.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously guy...

the scouting reports were showing this guy was done in late 2007. No. Bat. Speed. Left. At all.

Now, he’s a couple of years older, and didn’t play last year. Let it go. The numbers are lying to you. Go ask any Met fan, and they’ll give the real lowdown.

by Damen Jackson on Nov 29, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

D-lee

only hit 5 homers the second half of this year. He is probably washed up too. My point is, the Cubs currently have players that didn’t put up much better numbers than that and still won the division fairly easily. Green has lots and lots of experience, and maybe that would translate to clubhouse leadership. Maybe not. But for 3-5 million, the risk isn’t that great.

by bamix1 on Nov 28, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I haven't followed Green...

…closely, so I don’t know whether he has physical issues that are a concern, but I would agree with you his numbers are certainly not bad.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Nov 28, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's the problem, Al

A lot of people want to contribute something during this offseason talk, but they don’t have the time or the inclination to really research other players who are A) realistic or B) good.

So, they instead revert to names they heard of once. The result?

“Maybe the Brewers will do a sign-and-trade! We get Sabathia and they get Cedeno, Pie and we reimburse them for all of C.C.’s food bill for the last few months!”

Or…

“Remember when Luis Gonzalez hit that blooper to beat the Yankees in 2001? That is the kinda clutch hitting we need!”

Please note that I also do not have the time or the inclination to do the kind of research necessary. I don’t think that’s a fault.

But that’s also why I stick to posting about how to improve the game, or OT about BCS, or whatever.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Nov 29, 2008 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does anybody know

if there are any good bats in the rule 5 draft? I know this is a very risky way to address the RF situation but something that got me wondering. I looked on Baseball America and the only LH bat they mentioned was an infielder.

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I would be totally in favor of giving him a minor league contract with a NRI.

It certainly wouldn’t hurt to see what he has left in the tank, or if the time off recharged his batteries and healed old injuries. (Gabe Kapler comes to mind…) He always had great tools, so the question would be how much speed, throwing arm, and bat speed does he have left? The only way to find out is to try him out.

However, $3M guaranteed? No. Frickin’. Way.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Nov 28, 2008 1:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

How 'bout

Dwight Evans? Great defender and decent left handed pop…

by leothelip on Nov 28, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Evans hit RH

Thanks for playing

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was blinded by his arm

Ok…..Darryl Strawberry then. My comment was to address how much is left in the tank.

by leothelip on Nov 28, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Shawn Green

No. Thank. You.
If you like the idea of Green……………..why not just resign Edmonds? At least we are reasonably certain there is SOMETHING left in that tank. Shawn Green sat out a year and was bad in 07. No reason to think a year away helps his batting eye

by plenz on Nov 28, 2008 3:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

+1

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd agree

except Edmonds would carry about a salary of $6-$8 million more.

by socalbob on Nov 28, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What, you think Green's coming back for the minimum salary?

Doubt it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

in my original

post I wrote he would cost half of Edmonds salary.

by socalbob on Dec 1, 2008 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And he's not worth it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly my thoughts when I read saw this fanpost....

…and I am still not opposed to inviting Jimmy to ST

New sig currently under construction

by JB 23 on Nov 28, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

can't

Zambrano play RF with some work? Pitch him every 5 days and throw him out there in between……………there’s our LH pop without added payroll……….

by plenz on Nov 28, 2008 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I like it......

A switch-hitting right fielder with some power. Let’s just make him the right fielder, and if he wants to pitch a few innings, I’d recommend letting him pitch the ninth inning in save situations.

Hey Lou, we're long overdue.

by deadcatbounce on Nov 28, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

One Word

Abosultely Not.

Oh wait….

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Nov 28, 2008 6:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I heard that George...

…Brett had a great old-timers game either last year or this year. Let’s bring him back. The thing is he’d probably still hit .300, lace doubles, have a .400 OBP, and play a decent first base. Of course you’d run your bench out every game with pinch runners. …But since we’re suggesting retired players. :) – TL

[In 2008] Kila Ka’aihue had the best on-base percentage of any hitter in the minor leagues. - Joe Posnanski, 11/9/2008 ... Ergo, let's give him a shot at first base in KC in 2009.

by timlacy on Nov 28, 2008 6:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

There's a lot of over the top-ism here...

Not used to seeing that on this blog, which is why it’s often so enjoyable.

If all else fails, Green’s not a bad option to given a ST invite to. He wasn’t bad in 2007 (for those saying he was, please, go look at his numbers because you’re flat out wrong), but the fact that he hasn’t played since then is a big concern. The Chicago Cubs shouldn’t be considering options like Green at this point, but if Hendry can’t get a “sure thing” RF-er, then I’m all for giving Green a chance to prove he has something left.

by kanderber on Nov 28, 2008 7:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ask yourself this.

If Green can help a team in 2009, why was he not offered a contract by anyone for 2008? He can’t be any BETTER now than he was a year ago.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, like I said...

I’m not advocating that the Cubs sign him. If they can’t find anyone that’s a lock to produce better than Kosuke did last year, then inviting him to ST is not a bad idea at all.

Being out for a year, while concerning, doesn’t mean the guy can’t play anymore. MJ took some time off and then came back and led the Bulls to three more titles.

by kanderber on Nov 28, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Shawn Green = Michael Jordan?

You must be joking.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

???

Yeah Al, Shawn Green = Michael Jordan.

I simply used a very well known example to refute your claim that since Shawn Green didn’t play last year, he must not be capable of doing so in 2009.

by kanderber on Nov 28, 2008 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

MJ

was in the prime of his career when he took time off. Green was constantly regressing. How is this similar whatsoever?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Nov 28, 2008 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Constantly regressing?

He was actually very consistent from 03-05, tailed off pretty badly in 06 and then improved in 07. There are certainly several reasons for not wanting to take a flier on Shawn Green. Citing “constant regression” is not one of them. At all.

by kanderber on Nov 28, 2008 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right...

comparing an average RF to arguably the BEST athlete of All-Time is certainly a viable argument. Even though MJ was 30 when he retired and in his prime while Green was 35.

And Green was certainly worse the last 4 years. He had a decent 2007, after significantly regressing for 3 years. Even with his 2007, he was STILL substantially worse than his better years, with a definite lack of power.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Nov 28, 2008 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So your point is that he's 100% washed up?

Cause if not, I don’t know why we’re having this discussion. I stated very clearly in my original post that Green shouldn’t be someone the Cubs are considering at this point. I just disagree with the notion that he’s not worth a spring training invite if it comes down to it. Seriously, what’s the harm in that?

by kanderber on Nov 28, 2008 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This guys HR numbers were never consistent

and they want POWER I’ll bet you we don’t get the 40 HR guy and more than likely get the 15 HR or less guy

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 29, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Assumption

Al, do you know that he wasn’t offered a contract by any MLB team in 2008? Isn’t it possible that he just didn’t find a contract to his liking or made the decision not to play in 2008 and has now changed his mind.

by circuitclout on Nov 28, 2008 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ISTR...

… that he wasn’t offered a contract; further, it seems to me that he either announced his retirement or let it be known that he was done.

The original poster here claimed he “heard” Green was interested in coming back, but gave no link or other citation. If this is true, let’s see it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Al

Shawn Green is a personal friend. His father and my father play golf weekly in So Cal. That’s where I heard it-from his dad, Ira. Also spoke to his sister Lisa and her husband Ralph who verified the story to me.

I could tell you he had his bags packed last year to return to the Dodgers when Billy Beane was working with Ned Colletti to acquire Andre Eithier in a Joe Blanton deal. But I am sure you wouldn’t believe me because there was no source or report in a paper.

Oh well. Sorry for attempting to bring more to the table than the same re-tread stories. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving weekend.

by socalbob on Dec 1, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm.

Well, you could have put that in your original post. It would have given you more credibility. I believe you.

I still don’t think it’s worth it, after more than a year out of the game.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Context

I think part of the “Shawn Green is bad” sentiment stems from the fact that he made $9.5 million in 2007 and you proably want a better return on your investment than 291/352/430 for that kind of money. That aside, its not a bad line, and it was even better (326/383/483) against righties.

Now, if Green is interested in the role of platoon OF with the Cubs and is willing to accept a contract that is in line with his role it seems foolish to me to dismiss the idea out of hand.

by circuitclout on Nov 28, 2008 7:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Indains right-fielder,

Shin-Soo Choo looks good. Check him out.

by nick_reny on Nov 28, 2008 8:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Does Look Good

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Nov 28, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and he

could make a bundle endorsing Good ’n Plenty candy…

by leothelip on Nov 29, 2008 12:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder

what it would take to pry him away? Another player that I have liked for a long time is Nick Markakis although i’m sure the O’s will have a pretty hefty asking price to his name.

by nick_reny on Nov 29, 2008 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way Orioles trade Markakis

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Nov 29, 2008 2:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Shin-Soo Choo...

… interesting idea. Young player (27 in July), possibly with some upside, showed good power (14 HR, .549 SLG in 317 AB) in 2008.

What would it take to get him from Cleveland? What do they need? Bullpen help, probably.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bullpen help....

…like who? Kevin Hart possibly? I have never seen Hart as a pitcher with much potential. But that would probably not be enough mabey a Wuertz or Guzman? Although I like Guzman and would hesitate to trade him.

by nick_reny on Nov 29, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hart? Wuertz? Guzman? I don't think so.

Cleveland needs established bullpen help, i.e. someone who can step in and be a closer if things don’t work out elsewhere in the FA market. I don’t see Cleveland taking a flyer on the likes of Hart or Guzman, and I don’t think Wuertz has enough to be a closer.

Although it would appear Cleveland has an extra outfielder to play with, if you want to get Shin-Soo Choo out of them, you’d have to offer up something like Kevin Gregg. That would definitely get their attention. But I’m also pretty sure Hendry didn’t get Gregg to trade him away for the likes of Choo.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 30, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

NO

I would rather have Jim Edmonds back. Quite frankly, I am a little upset that this is not being pursued by Jim Hendry. He was fantastic. More than anyone of us could have expected. He was a leader. He was a clubhouse guy. All the things we couldn’t have possibly imagined. He hit 20HR and is LH. That is a ton more than anything we would get out of Shawn Green, or most of the OFs we are looking at.

"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."

by louslovechild on Nov 29, 2008 2:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

two words

god no lol

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 11:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's three words.

Or five, depending on how you read “lol”

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I haven't seen anything different since....

Edmonds was on the Tim McCarver TV show (I watched it only because Edmonds was on and I was curious what kind if guy he really is, media aside) and he stated he was 50/50 on retiring since he’s newly married and wants to see his kids grow up some. Has there been anything from him since then stating whether he had decided one way or the other?

by jtiet on Nov 29, 2008 11:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs