Cross One Free-Agent Pitcher Off The List
Freddy Garcia was an intriguing idea, although Lou says the Cubs have enough starters. Well, now, we can forget about that:
Veteran right-hander Freddy Garcia may have hit a speed bump on the comeback trail. Garcia, a free agent who finished the 2008 season with Detroit, left a game in the Venezuelan Winter League on Thursday after two innings due to shoulder discomfort, according to Venezuelan newspaper El Universal.
And remember, for those of you who are Jake Peavy fans, he also had some injury issues during 2008.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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78 comments
Comments
Kerry Wood
missed about as much time as Peavy last year. Maybe the Cubs should stay away from hi too.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 2:02 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Wood=blister. Peavy=elbow.
Little bit different.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh yeah
and wood 04,05,06,07 shoulder probs. hooray he had 1 year of health free issues lets get him signed. nevermind peavy is a cy young in which we have none. nevermind the fact marquis pitches alot of innings and sux most of them. neevrmind that harden will be hurt at least 50%. nevermind lilly and z will be a year older. nope bad jim hendry you can always have enough good pitching. pleazzzze
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nevermind
Dempster may not be nearly as good, but god forbid Hendry doesn’t have the money to make “tweaks” like adding Kevin Millar…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 29, 2008 12:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy's pitched nearly as many innings and games
as Z over the past 3 years. How does Kerry measure up?
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 29, 2008 12:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitched as many innings...
… as most closers did in 2008. Comparing previous years is irrelevant.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So
Kevin Millar’s leadership a few years ago is irrelevant..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 29, 2008 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I used to watch
Garcia when he was a Mariner, and was considered their ace. He is a headcase, and comes unglued when things don’t go his way, such as borderline strike calls. He has some talent when healthy. But in my opinion, he isn’t worth the risk. Especially when some of the umpires “light him up” to watch him come unglued.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
by Tekboy on Nov 28, 2008 2:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can't understand
the negative take on Peavy Al. If and a big if, the Cubs could make a deal for Peavy, it would make the Cubs starting staff the elite in MLB. I would make the deal. With the uncertainity of Harden and his history of injury Peavy solidify this staff. Peavy miss some starts last year, however he still had 27 starts and averages over 30 starts per year in his career.
Now in the deal I would be hesitant to include Vitters, that would be a roadblock for me. But to add Peavy it would nothing but help this team.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Nov 28, 2008 2:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't get the constant hating on Peavy either
Seems it’s more important for Al to be right, than for the Cubs to get better.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It is not who is right or who is wrong.
“Z”, Demp, Lilly, Harden and Peavy is a tremendous rotation. Whether this gets done who knows, but adding Peavy makes the Cubs rotation best in baseball.
I guess the argument is the Cubs won 97 games without Peavy, well my argument is you can’t count on last years performance, 2009 is a new year.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Nov 28, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we won 97 games last year
that dont mean we will win 97 games this year. anytime u can add a 26 yr old cy young winner, you do it. I’m growing more and more afraid were gonna spend every last dollar on 1 player that is aging and old. someone like abreu. I would loe to add a beimel,peavy and a retread cheap outfielder.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 28, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 28, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't understand as well,
Peavy/Harden/Z/Dempster all 4 could be viable CY Young Candidates and to have them on one team would be amazing.
As for Josh Vitters i too like him alot, but seeing as how he is a 3B and if i am not mistaken we have a solid player there now and have no need to fill a “hole” there. I guess what i’m saying is that although Vitters is probably our best prospect we wont need him for a few years and who knows what kind of other prospects we can get through trade or draft. I would be willing to give up Vitters in turn to get Peavy.
by nick_reny on Nov 28, 2008 2:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Can any of them hit... except for Z?
Pitching is not the Cubs problem. It is offense. Getting Peavy would be great, but it doesn’t do a thing to help the hitting, and the hitting is what failed them in the postseason.
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband
by Ross on Nov 28, 2008 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We gave up...
20 runs in 3 games. How is that NOT a problem?
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 28, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Freddy Garcia was an intriguing idea...
Well, maybe to some. Not to me.
It would be another exercise in frustration.
The Cubs have had way more of those than necessary over the last five years.
by The E-Man on Nov 28, 2008 2:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure...
…Freddy was high on too many team’s list no matter how well he may have pitched in winter ball.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 28, 2008 2:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand the love for Peavy.
Trading for him means:
1) Decimating what’s left of the farm system
2) Getting a guy who MIGHT not be as dominant outside of Petco
3) Taking away ANY payroll flexibility for midseason acquisitions
I just don’t understand why he’s “the answer”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 4:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here's my take...
…I think he’s a damn good pitcher and he has the track record to prove it. I understand about his splits, but good pitchers have a way of pitching good enouph no matter where they are tossing the rock.
Whenever you can add a guy of his caliber, you have to look very hard at it. The Cub’s do have other needs, but this game has and always will start with pitching.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Nov 28, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right.
But I think the Cubs have other needs, as you say, that they will address first, especially with the ridiculous posturing that Kevin Towers is doing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of "might nots"
What dominant hitter can the Cubs get, who doesn’t play 1b, 3b, LF or Catcher? A playoff rotation of Z, Peavy, Harden & Dempster is comparable to what the Yankees were throwing out there in the 90’s.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A playoff rotation...
… of Z, Harden & Dempster got us exactly zero wins last October.
So what you’re saying is if we get Peavy, we win one game in the division series?
Having another starting pitcher, no matter how good, is not the solution.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What available hitter makes a bigger impact than Peavy?
But yes, Kevin Millar will change everything. gmafb
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, please.
Let’s get real. The fact is, the Cubs didn’t fail because they didn’t have enough starting pitching. And frankly, they didn’t fail because they didn’t have a good offense — they led the league in runs scored, or have you forgotten?
There’s some psychological barrier that they have to get over. And yes, Kevin Millar — or someone LIKE him — might indeed make the difference.
Laugh if you will, but last I looked, baseball wasn’t played on a spreadsheet.
And talk to the Yankees if you think that just buying or acquiring every expensive player you can find wins you World Series titles.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok so it's psychological now and
now you’re admitting the Cubs don’t need to set aside money for bats. Thank you..
A past Cy Young winner like Peavy brings a much bigger psychological edge than some washed up player like Millar…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're putting words in my mouth.
Please don’t do that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't like it
when someone points out your contradictions?
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're arguing with yourself
I never said they didn’t have enough hitting. You’re the one who implied that… My point is to get the best player available and that’s Peavy…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm not convinced...
… that the dollars spent, plus the fact that Peavy might not be as dominant outside of Petco, make it worth it.
This is the Yankee philosophy — just buy “the best player available” and they’ll win. Exactly how many WS have the Yankees won in the last eight years?
The Cubs already have a playoff-caliber team. They need to tweak it and to leave enough money for a possible midseason acquisition. Getting Jake Peavy accomplishes neither of those goals.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yankees
haven’t had much pitching recently…. They spent the majority of their money on hitting…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You said they couldn't win a game
with Harden, Z and Dempster…. Yet you suggest tweaks… Doesn’t make sense.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's exactly my point.
You have three outstanding regular season pitchers who couldn’t win a game in October. So your solution is to get another pitcher? How does that help?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 28, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do "tweaks" help?
1 of those 3 could get hurt , and I’m not counting on Dempster being nearly as good. Pitching is what usually wins titles and Peavy improves the rotation.
I’m in favor of getting an impact hitter over Peavy, but none are available.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Nov 28, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair...
Peavy is not…
1. Emotionally unbalanced (Z)
2. Injury plagued (Harden)
3. Possessing only one quality year of starting (Demp)
Of course it helps the Cubs; how could adding a front-of-the-line starter EVER not help? Is it the best use of funds and/or farm? That is the debate. But don’t be so adamant about not trading for Peavy that you become so obtuse as to say he wouldn’t improve the team.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Nov 28, 2008 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
exactly how many
WS have the Cubs won in the last century?
by bamix1 on Nov 29, 2008 10:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Irrelevant.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that is
the only thing that is relevant! The reason we are all here is b/c we want to discuss what it takes for the Cubs to win a WS (or a post season series at this point). It may not be fair or proper to compare player to player or team to team, but that is what we are all doing. A player of Peavy’s ability and credentials are not always available. Thinking that he won’t make the Cubs a better team, at least in theory, is ridiculously short-sighted. I’m not saying that he is the answer to the Cubs problems by any means. I mean, the Cubs had the 2nd or 3rd best ERA in baseball and scored the most runs, so I’m not even sure what the question is. But, if you ask me if I’d rather have a team on the field that included or Peavy or didn’t include Peavy, and I’d choose the team with him every single time. But, in the end, with Peavy or without him, come spring training I’ll be supporting the Cubs!
by bamix1 on Nov 29, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The last 100 years are irrelevant.
Only last year’s failure is relevant now and how to fix it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
1)farm system isnt gonna win us a championship next year. were built to win right now.
2)harden might not be healthy much next year. z might not either. lilly is another year older.
3)ur taking away no flexibility by having another starter. pitching talks in all trades. you can ever have enough starting pitching especially of that caliber. gm’s will make stupid moves and pay stupid prices for good starting pitching at the deadline.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 12:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the difference
between marquis and peavy would net an additional 2 wins, atleast for last year. However, when you factor in that if Peavy is the number 1 starter, you’re putting the ball in the hands of dempster, lilly, z and harden more, too. So maybe, tops, 3 wins total. not wins in his starts, but overall team wins.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 28, 2008 6:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
enough
with worrying about the future..i dont know about anyone else but if we can get what it takes to make the team better now then do it..peavy might not be all we need but he would make this team better end of story no arguement….
and we shouldnt worry about money problems with getting him because what are we really going to spend the money on? old right fielders? furcal could be the only thing i see worth spending on..other then that who cares if we dont have money for other parts like a 35+ right fielder…ill take some dip in peavys numbers and add him to our team…any day at pretty much anything we have to give up
by cubbiepride on Nov 28, 2008 7:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The cost is far too high and the return is too little
The Cubs would lose all of their good young talent and handcuff the future payroll. Peavy’s contract is backloaded so bad that the Cubs will need that good cheap talent. Furcal is the only thing really worth blowing lots of money on because it fills the SS spot, lets Fontenot platoon with Theriot, and DeRosa can play right. Soriano can move down.
We don’t need anymore starting pitching, especially not considering the cost.
by dr stabbingworth on Nov 28, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ur wrong
peavy’s contract is extremely friendly. remember were paying z 18 million and he has no cy youngs and has never won 20 games. you can always trade a good starter for a heavy bounty if need be.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 12:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy's contract is extremely friendly?
How so, exactly? It’s heavily backloaded just like Soriano’s.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well
considering the price of cy young caliber pitching is gonna reach to almost 25 million a year this offseason. the price of inning eaters/3-4th starters is Already at 9-12 million. pitchers like derek lowe in which i consider to be #2-3 type pitchers are gonna get somewhere in the mid teens. pretty obvious starting pitching gets a bit higher every year, so I consider Peavy a pretty darn good bargain. heck even if he’s not the cy young winner and slips to being a derek lowe type(#2 or 3) over the duration of that contract he will be a bargain considering market value for that type at this present day is about what we’d be paying him at the end of that deal.
look I understand we need other things but the other things out there arent exactly eye popping. worst case scenario is we have too much pitching. that there could and would make us big players in the trade market. we all know thee who haveth pitching gets big bounty at the deadline.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So $15, $16 and $17 million
in 2010, 2011 and 2012 plus a full no trade clause in 2010 is extremely friendly? Please explain.
by rlpete on Nov 29, 2008 7:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
17 million in 2012
for Peavy who is an elite pitcher is a steal, considering the market price for a starting pitcher of his caliber.
CC and perhaps Lowe will make atleast that amount this year. Santana already makes more than that. I believe in 2012, Lincecum will be a FA, and I’m pretty sure he is going to make more than 17 million per. He will be making less than Zambrano will this year. and in 2012 (I think we have him locked in until 2011, though).
If peavy were a free agent now, he would easily garner 18 million/yr.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 29, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The 2012 payroll is irrelevant.
The 2009 payroll IS relevant, and it would be stretched past the breaking point with Peavy. It would not allow the acquisition of a lefty power bat (you know, the one Lou is obsessed with), or a shortstop, or leave any room for midseason acquisitions.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why not??
u mean we couldnt make a trade with an abundance of good pitching?? the bat lou covets isnt there. pitchers like peavy dont come around often and sure not at a descent market value price. you can never go wrong with too much good pitching.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs seem to have several holes
1. Leadoff hitter,
2. Lefty power bat,
3. Shortstop
4. Bullpen
and if I were in charge, that’s pretty much the order in which I’d rank them. Problem is, when I look at possible solutions for each of those holes, I don’t see any sure-things. Obviously, nobody is ever a guaranteed sure-thing so spare me the semantics, but seriously, solutions for each of those holes have been discussed ad nauseam here and none of them strike me as a sure thing. Furcal, Dunn, Abreu, et al – they all have concerns.
And I think most of us agree that the Cubs probably have one more big move left in them, either via trade or FA. So the prudent course of action might be to just wait and hold off on that one move. Maybe wait til spring training, maybe the trade deadline where it will be more clear where we need the most help.
But if Cubs do decide to make that one more move right now, what’s wrong with approaching it like the draft, i.e. going for the “best available athlete” (cue the John Kruk jokes in 5…4…3…) instead of merely by need. Since there are no sure things in the areas of need for the Cubs, what if they just went and got the best player out there now that they could get, regardless of position.
And frankly, I think Peavy could fit that bill, especially if Hendry continues to indirectly drive a hard bargain (thank you Mr. Towers) and can get him on the cheap. Yes, his contract is backloaded but that doesn’t start to be a problem until 2010. And yes, the Cubs don’t really “need” another quality starting pitcher, but if you’re going to have an excess of anything in this game, I think we’d all agree it should be pitching.
Ergo, I have no problem whatsoever with acquiring Peavy now and carrying that excess of quality starting pitching into next year and see what happens then. Teams always seem to need pitching, so to me adding Peavy to our staff gives Jimbo the flexibility to pull the trigger whenever the right opportunity comes along.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a lead off hitter
effectiveness will only be as good if the player he is replacing is not as good as he is. His order in the lineup is merely a formality. Considering we already have a lead off hitter in Theriot (high OBP, low strikeout rate).
Our bullpen should be the first thing we address in this off season.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 29, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting. and yet Theriot did not lead off. Why is that?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because
lou piniella thinks that a player who played in his prime at the lead off position put up better numbers than in his first few years when he wasn’t in his prime and batted 5th and 6th. His inability to parse useful insight from statistics and account for context gave soriano the lead-off slot.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 29, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
okaaaaaay...
Glad we got that cleared up. Now someone just needs to explainit to Lou and all our problems will be solved.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the 2012 payroll is really relevant
And considering the issue at hand was how Jake Peavy’s contract was a deal, you’re throwing a strawman arguement at me.
However, The 2012 payroll is relevant when it comes to signing a player today. Using your logic, we could sign CC for X amount of years for 300 million total. Just give him the bulk of the money then and pay him 10m in 2009.
And what Lou is obsessed about is irrelevant, as he doesn’t build the team, Hendry does. Lou wanted a lefty pitcher midseason this year, and we got harden, a righty. I take what Lou says with a grain of salt. And he never once insinuated he wanted a new shortstop, in fact, he has said the opposite in that he likes Theriot.
IMHO, the Cubs don’t need a lefty power bat at the start of the season. Perhaps at the trading deadline they will, considering some people blamed the cubs collapse in the post season on the lack of lefties in the lineup.
The Cubs have always had the win-now philosophy with regards to building their team. So have the yankees since 2000. And it doesn’t work. There is no “missing piece” in the cubs roster. There is no single reason why the Cubs went three and out two years in a row. A lefty bat wouldnt prevent the cubs from walking 8 people in game 1, make them catch the ball in game two, and single handedly score 10 runs in game 3. The Cubs need to field the best team possible in 09’ and also in subsequent years after that.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 29, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You say Lou doesn't build the team...
… I say there is a large body of evidence that shows that he tells Hendry what he wants and Hendry goes and gets it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they discuss it
but I don’t think Lou is calling the shots by any stretch. And where is this large body of evidence?
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 29, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would bet different
at this point in lou’s career I’d guarantee it that he all but gets what he wants when/if it works out or is within the budget
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Let’s see about the body of evidence:
1) He wanted Michael Barrett gone — gone within a month.
2) He put Scott Eyre in the doghouse — gone, though the Cubs could have used him.
3) He kept using Bob Howry even though it was clear he was hurting the team.
How much more do you need?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, probably at least a few more
Don’t get me wrong – I’m in the “Lou is wearing the pants in the Cubs family more often than not” camp, but if you’re trying to make a strong case, I think you need a few more because…
1) Barrett got in a fight with the team ace. Doesn’t take a control-freak, “I’m in charge, I’m in charge” manager to figure out which one is gonna get the boot here.
2) & 3) The bullpen is a notoriously fickle environment. Unless you’re talking specifically about the closer, people come and go in a bullpen all the time.
Some examples with position players, starting pitchers or spots in the batting order would add a little more meat to this body of evidence.
And then I’m hoping SWL comes up with a visual on what exactly a Lou Piniella-influenced body of evidence would look like…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
swl
doesnt participate near enough lately and it kinda makes me mad.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh he's around more than you might think.
He’s kinda like Batman and we’re all a bunch of Commissioner Gordons. We just gotta shine that SWL logo in the sky and hope he responds to the call.
Besides, I think SWL is 5&10 BCBer – he’s earned the right to cherry-pick his assignments. Our job is to present him with a challenge he can’t ignore.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt waste my time
with this argument al. piniella is calling shots period.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's calling the shots
on the field, no doubt about it. On a day to day basis, he is the field general so to speak, that’s nearly disputable. But to think he calls the shots about which players to acquire, well I seriously doubt he has a majority vote. I’m sure he voices his concern and hendry does listen to his opinion, but to imply or infer that lou gets what he wants is ludicrous.
A general manager has too much at stake financially and professionally to act solely on an aging ex jock turned manager.
If Lou Piniella is calling the shots, he deserves 100 percent accountability in both LDS’ with regards to prematurely pulling Z and starting Fukudome the first two games (he barely played him down the stretch).
Our desires (with the sole exception of replacing what’s gone) should be considered no more than luxuries consonsidering winning the division isnt the problem, it’s winning a short series in the playoffs. Making a rash move now when the market is strong would be bad idea, as opposed to doing it mid season when teams’ playoff expectations are rendered nil.
by scarymonsters85 on Nov 29, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Lou must be held accountable for at least part of the NLDS meltdowns.
But I think you’re wrong about Lou’s influence. First, he’s a bit more than “an ex jock turned manager”. He’s been managing for more than 20 years, he’s won a World Series and been to the postseason seven times.
Just as Jim Hendry listened too much to Dusty Baker and thus put together the dysfunctional team that Baker wanted, I think Lou has considerable influence over what gets put on the field at Wrigley. To say that idea is “ludicrous” denies reality.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 30, 2008 4:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Hendry strikes me as a guy who’s really good at handling personnel issues, making deals, and dealing with people. He also seems to know that he’s not the end-all, be-all of baseball knowledge like some GMs think they are, and that he needs to work with Lou to make sure that the team manager has a team he can successfully manage.
With two division championships in a row, Hendry should know he can trust Lou to make good suggestions for personnel changes during the season. What Hendry needs to do now is lean on Lou later in the season to make sure that there is enough post-season experience on the team to insure a meltdown doesn’t occur in the NLDS.
by znohitter on Nov 30, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and further...
… it should be more of a collaboration. I think Hendry gives a little TOO much slack to his managers. We saw that have disastrous results under Baker.
Since Lou is a smarter manager than Dusty, the results under Lou have been better. But he also has had his pets and his doghouse, and that hasn’t been too good, either.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 30, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
strawman argument??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call market priced "extremely friendly"
Point is I still don’t see the Cubs spending $60 Mil for a rotation in 2009 of Z, Dempster, Lilly, Harden and Peavy. One of them would have to go plus Marquis.
In 2010 then you are talking about $60 Mil for Z, Dempster, Lilly and Peavy and no #5. I don’t see that either.
by rlpete on Nov 29, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the thought of that rotation
still gives me the chill.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
May not be a fresh injury
If any of the Cubs fans happened to be watching…… Garcia started for Detroit against the Sox in the make-up game on 9-29. He came out of that game in the middle of an inning after complaining of an arm (shoulder?) injury. He was pitching great up until that point, but it sounds like there still may be a MAJOR problem with the soundness of his arm.
by cubssouvenirman on Nov 28, 2008 11:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I remember that.
Sounds like something may have started then. This won’t help him get a contract, maybe a minor league invite.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Clarification
I wasn’t necessarily suggesting the Cubs give Garcia a minor league invite, just saying that’s probably the best he can hope for from anyone at this point.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
cubs
it,s the 100 yr thing.we had great pitching and great hitting.when the whole world wants you to win thats a lot of pressure.and it gets to the players
by NOMAR on Nov 29, 2008 5:43 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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