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Ranking our best prospects

I have always tried to follow our minor league prospects the best I can, but my knowledge definetly has holes. I am interested in hearing the rankings of the best prospects in our system?

Personally I do not consider Pie a prospect still seeing as how he has had his chances and hasn't been able to break that starting lineup.

Also are there any good options in the Rule 5 draft to look our for?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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My top 10

1. Vitters
2. Samardzija
3. Jay Jackson
4. Wellington Castillo
5. Andrew Cashner
6. Ryan Flaherty
7. Lee Hak-Ju
8. Esmailin Caridad
9. Tyler Colvin
10. Mitch Atkins

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 2:50 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As far as options in the Rule 5

I’m a fan of Javy Guerra from the Dodgers. He is a righty that throws in the mid 90s and if Wood is indeed gone I think he would be a good power righty to add to the pen.

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 2:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Cubs won't be picking anyone in the Rule 5 draft

You have to have a spot open on your 40 man roster at the draft in order to be eligible to pick. The Cubs entire 40 man roster is full. They won’t be allowed to pick. That is my understanding. Anyone who knows more care to contradict me?

"Manny Trillo is coming in to pinch run. You know, for a lot of teams, you would pinch run [i]for[/i] Manny Trillo." - Harry Caray

by Archie on Dec 1, 2008 10:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The 40-man is full?

Since when?

Here’s the 40-man roster as of today, Monday 12/1. I count 36 names on it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 4:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its odd not seeing Felix Pie at or near the top of that list

Kinda sad how our future star has kind of found himself lost in the shuffle.

Your 2008 Missouri Tigers! #12 9-2 (5-2). Next up kU at Arrowhead. BIG 12 NORTH CHAMPS!

by nji232 on Nov 28, 2008 3:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I understand that but

we have been saying this for quite some time now. And now he is out of options where if he gets designated for assignment he has to clear waivers and can be claimed by another team. So lets hope he can produce at the plate this year.

by nick_reny on Nov 28, 2008 3:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pie has too much major league time to be a "prospect" any more.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 28, 2008 4:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll try to get my top 50 out at some point

but was busy this past week. Anyhow, this is my top 10, which is fairly solid in terms of I don’t expect to change my mind anymore on it.

1. Josh Vitters, B+: The one prospect in our system with apparent superstar potential. Has power that the system lacks. He showed signs in late 2008 that he might be able to stick at 3rd, and that is where he would have the most value for us. I expect him to start 2009 in Peoria, with a shot at Daytona/Tennessee depending on how things go. ETA to Wrigley guess? 2011, putting him potentially on track for a job after Derrek Lee leaves.
2. Jeff Samardzija, B: I’ve downgraded him to a B after further consideration. Just too much inconsistency to really merit a B+. He still has quality upside, although I think some overstate his abilities right now. It’s a matter of being more consistent, particularly with his secondary pitches. There is still some question if he is a starter. If he is, I see him more as a 2/3 type than an ace caliber pitcher. Personally, you try a guy as a starter until he can’t, and as such, I’d rather see him in AAA starting every 5th day, with the chance at a midseason promotion and a rotation shot in 2009. Realistically, I expect him to open the season in the pen as one of our primary setup arms.
3. Wellington Castillo, B: For the life of me, I don’t know why he doesn’t get more attention. Potential plus defense, enough bat, shows the potential for a bit more power. He’s a good one for the position, and if it wasn’t for the fact that we had Soto, we’d be talking about Castillo as a possible catcher of the future. With Soto in tow, he’s trade bait, particularly considering our system’s depth at catcher. If he’s with us, I see him starting the year at AA again, with Koyie Hill likely snapping the AAA spot. Of course, if Blanco leaves, then both could be bumped up a spot. That said, Castillo’s bat got off to a hot start in AA before struggling in July and August, so I prefer him to be in AA personally. In an ideal world, he’s a plus receiver that offers above average offense for the position.
4. Andrew Cashner, B: Some folks think this is high (see old thread over at Sickels). I think it’s fine. His small sample size last year shouldn’t be judged too harshly. The upside is still there, particularly in the pen. He could follow Ceda’s 2008 path in 2009. That said, the Cubs have said they’ll fast track him, so don’t rule out Cashner from appearing in the bigs. He has some control issues that need to be ironed out, because if not, he’s more Kevin Gregg than people might be willing to admit. ETA to Wrigley: My honest guess is that the Cubs will bring him to the bigs at some point in 2009 unless he falls apart, but at the very least, I think he’ll see the bigs in 2010..
5. Jay Jackson, B-: The grade hasn’t changed, but I’ve slid him up a bit. After awhile, I just couldn’t think of a reason not to place him here. Loose arm, in a good way, good delivery and mechanics should lessen the burden on the arm. He’s a good athlete, which is always nice. Had success in A+ when he moved up. Shows advance secondary pitches, and is still very much raw to full-time pitching. Some have suggested that he’s somewhat the righty version of Rich Hill (that is, living off one pitch, in this case, the slider). I disagree, as he has more life on the fastball (and could potentially add a few more ticks), and he has shown that the change/curve could eventually be a solid third pitch. The fastball already runs in the low 90’s. Has some minor issues to iron out, but I think it’s more consistency issues. One of the higher upside starting arms in the system, Jackson likely starts 2009 in Daytona, with a shot at Tennessee sometime midseason. ETA to Wrigley: Competing for a rotation spot in 2012. Worst case scenario is that he’s a late inning pen arm.
6. Tyler Colvin, B-: Was it really due to the injury? The ultimate Tim Wilken-type pick, Colvin’s tools are undeniable. He had a strong finish to finish the year, but struggled for most of the year. The surgery offers some hope that he was struggling as a result, although I’m not completely sold. I think he starts the year in AA when he is ready, with the potential for a quick bump to Iowa. He’s not a CF, and he’s probably not a RF either. ETA to Wrigley: Well, with RF now open, there’s a shot that Tyler could get a look in 2010 if he plays well… but with the Cubs likely to add an OF, the realistic assessment is that he’s potential trade bait unless he steps up big time. Grade is likely higher than what others will give him.
7. Ryan Flaherty, B-: PaulThomas of AthleticsNation made enough of a case that Flaherty should be a C+ that I gave long thought to it. He’s not sticking at shortstop, barring a surprise, but he could be a great 2nd base option. The system is so deep in 2nd base options, though, so I’ll be curious what the Cubs do. Maybe they keep him at short for another year, sliding him to Peoria. Or could they jump him to Daytona and switch him to 2nd? ETA to Wrigley: Could get a look in 2011, although 2012 is more likely.
8. Jovan Rosa, B-: I think he goes under the radar quite a bit. He’s got some defensive liabilities, but he likely can be fine at first base in time. There’s power potential there, as evidenced with the doubles, and his body may mature some more. He’s got a smooth stroke that should make contact consistently. He posted an solid line in the Midwest League. I think he plays mainly first base at Daytona to start 2009. ETA to Wrigley? If he develops, 2011, offering an option to replace Lee.
9. Mitch Atkins, C+. End of the rotation type, but he’s up in AAA and he’s coming off a solid year. Low 90’s fastball combined with the breaker and change gives him a shot. Should start 2009 as a stretched out arm in Iowa, and could see the bigs at some point.
10. Dan McDaniel, C+. Power righty arm runs it up there in the mid-90’s. Has a decent to solid curve I think and a usable change and slider. I want to see us try him as a starter (started at Chabot a bit) but I don’t expect it. Strong season at Boise, looking for him to start 09 in Peoria. I don’t see a huge difference between Cashner and McDaniel to justify separating them by too much (not saying that they are equals right now, as Cashner has the better stuff, but just that I don’t think they are far apart).

by toonsterwu on Nov 28, 2008 4:59 PM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

So Cashner will be traded for some bum next year?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Nov 28, 2008 5:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's hope not

I’m sorta looking to a future with Cashner and others setting up Marmol.

by toonsterwu on Nov 28, 2008 5:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind seeing what he does starting

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 5:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I never really liked the Cashner pick.

I don’t know who else the Cubs could have drafted there (I’m no expert on the MLB draft), but I don’t think you should be using that high of a pick on a reliever to try and convert him to a starter (if that’s the route the Cubs are actually taking). Even if they keep him as a reliever, I would rather have seen them draft a starter. I know you sometimes take the best talent and don’t draft on need, I just feel pumping high talent starters into the organization is almost always a smart move.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Nov 28, 2008 5:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cashner was a starter before last year

but I would have liked Dykstra, Frederich, Schlereth, or Kelly before Cashner

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 6:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For those that may not know that is

LH 1B Allan Dykstra, LHP Christian Frederich, LHP Daniel Schlereth, RH SS/P Casey Kelly

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 6:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

relievers can make it up faster

so maybe that was their thinking, that was the trend the past few drafts, or at least in Cashners class

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Nov 28, 2008 6:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Schlereth

There may have been a question about him amongst a few or most clubs and then after Arizona drafted him, he hurt his arm against Miami in the super regional.

by Slamdog on Nov 30, 2008 8:37 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Colvin has talent?

Colvin… Pie… Patterson… we know the drill by now.

The Cubs should really hang on to Vitters, he’s a very safe bet to keep they payroll under control in the near future.

by Luis on Nov 28, 2008 10:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:13 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the answer is reese havens or lonnie chisenhhall....

i havent like any of our recent drafts to be honest….

Colvin was a huge leap… Vitters was a good pick but we should have taken weiters (even with soto) and Cashner is meh

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 28, 2008 5:59 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Colvin was a huge leap, towards what?

he doesnt seem to have the slugging or on base skills the team desperately needs

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Nov 28, 2008 6:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The true test will be

how he performs after the surgery. His OBP and SLG weren’t great before last year but his average was definitely better before last season. Hopefully the lack of production was due to the elbow injury.

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 28, 2008 6:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i meant he was a very iffy pic when we took him....

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 28, 2008 8:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think 'reach' is the word you're looking for.

Not ‘leap’.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Nov 28, 2008 8:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no i was going for leap

as in lead in judgement leap in faith

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 28, 2008 9:29 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Samardzija

Hasnt a year really changed his status? Last year there were people that dropped him off their Top 10 lists and others who had him on the back of their lists and really questioning why the Cubs gave him that money. It just took him getting more experience to get better and get more consistent with his delivery. I wish I had a dollar for everyone @ Baseball America questioned. Just let these players develope, the list is better than some people think and look back on it in a few years and I’ll bet you’ll be suprised, look its already happened with Vitters and Samardzija, lots of people were hammering Vitters for his poor start last year.

by Slamdog on Nov 29, 2008 7:42 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Disagree to a point

BA rated Samardzija as the #8 prospect last season. He moved up to #2 in part because 3 players (Gallagher, Donaldson and Ceda) were traded, 2 players slipped (Colvin and Veal) and one was promoted (Soto). I’m still not sure I see a starting pitcher in Samardzija. I’d rate him no better than a B grade prospect right now.

After the Soto promotion and the trades, the Cubs system is definitely in the bottom third.

by rlpete on Nov 29, 2008 8:32 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Samardzija also did a ton

to gain in value this year. Posting better and better stats each time you are promoted is a very good thing.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 29, 2008 2:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think its sad when our second best prospect is a reliever...

anyone who thinks shark can start at this point is delusional IMO……

I do like some of the depth at the low minors in Flaherty, Hu (although who the hell knows what his deal is), Vitters… But if Vitters plus someone gets m peavy i am all for it…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 10:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou said on CTL

week before last that they are going to give Shark a chance to start this coming spring. Lou said it would be a crowded rotation but Shark would get a chance to start.

by sue369 on Nov 30, 2008 2:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two kinds of ratings needed

Rating one: Impact potential for the upcoming year

Rating two: Future impact two years out plus.

The reason especially for state of this club which is in the stage of win now in 2009. The other is that sports is always measuring whether you might be able to win now—-Tampa Bay last year for example. For a team like the Cubs coming up to the limits of a salary budget the value to a 25-man roster of upcoming contributors is immeasurable both money wise and talent wise—-Soto and Marmol are prime examples. Funny both were not considered top prospects until they made it all the way because of need.

The other is of course lining up a development cycle that has critical as teams naturally need to cycle players up to replace high priced aging veterans or supplement injured players. Pitching has the fastest cycle pace, followed by catchers, middle infielders.

Okay thus looking at toonsterwu’s rating as a guide I say the following:

(A-) level-Now: Samardz…no doubt he has a good fastball, live with upper velocity. A fair bender be it a slider or curve but when on he is a 3-up and 3-down reliever. What he needs is a dominant straight change from the same arm angle and he is a starter. The thing is unless there is an injury being a starter this year is not needed. He can learn game situations and develop the sense that Dempster developed, the importance of each pitch. Because contracts to Z-D-L 2010 is the natural progression time slot.

© level now: Micah Hoffpauir has shown he can hit in the bigs with some SLG% from the left side but being an average 1B with an All Star blocking you who has a guaranteed contract thru 2010 and NTC is a firm block. That said he could be up as a pinch hitter and spot starter to rest Lee who appears he needs a day a week off to keep his power numbers up.

©-level now: Koyie Hill. Because of budget issues Blanco is a luxury the Cubs cannot now afford—-sorry folks but a part time player where the difference of $2.5-$3M when other player slots must be signed does not compute. K Hill has some technical issues like telegraphing pitches but that can be overcome with coaching.

(C+) level Now: Angel Guzman a perennial pitcher who knows too many rehab specialists on first name basis, Angel has the stuff to be an excellent middle reliever—even dominant middle reliever making Wuertz expendable on the arbitration-trade wire.

(C-)-level now: Nate Spears. Cubs might need to bring him up this year depending on who they get as a utility player or two. Left handed bat and possible ability to play both SS and 2B could have some value.

(D+) level now: Ascanio, potential reliever stuff that is too wild to be taken seriously except for a couple of weeks against the softest part of the schedule. If/when he figures out how to control his stuff he can move up into the B level now because of his salary slot in the relief core. Others of (D+) level are Kevin Hart who needs more than a slider to stay in the bigs.

(D-) level now when the injury plague has decimated the club: Donnie Veal, Ed Campsuano, Mark Holliman, Randy Wells, Marcus Mateo, Sam Fuld, Justin Berg, Jake Fox.

The future is not my bailiwick.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 29, 2008 10:50 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you are a Baseball America subscriber...

… you can check out this article (subscribers only) at BA’s website.

It talks about a few players who might be sleepers — including Donnie Veal. Among those mentioned who are available who intrigued me are Tim Lahey — yes, the Twins left him unprotected again — and a 23-year-old righthander, a converted infielder named Pedro Strop. BA says of him:

Pedro Strop is one of the most fascinating pitchers coming into a Rule 5 and could add to his mystery if taken. Despite having made only seven appearances at Double-A Tulsa in April and having surgery in June, the Rangers signed him in September to a minor league deal worth $90,000. Yet the Rangers chose not to protect him despite swooping in in September after the Rockies had designated him for assignment to make room on the 25-man for Todd Helton. A former middle infielder, he’s just 23 and has whippy arm action with an 82-86 mph slider and 92-96 fastball.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 11:09 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there is some other guy that intrigues me..

i think his name is guerra or something like that.. He sounds a lot like this guy.. He throws mid to upper 90s with a solid slider… I believe he is with the friars or the dodgers.. but he appearently had a sick winter league in hawaii…

its so sad what has happened to veal.. He was so amazing in 06…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 11:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Javy Guerra

I mentioned him earlier in the thread and I saw him this year in the Hawaii Winter League…let’s just say I don’t think we’ll miss Ceda if we got this kid

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 29, 2008 1:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two thoughts

First, I see Vitters as untouchable. Yes, I know we’ve seen Pie and Patterson flame out but the Cubs system is very weak and Vitters is the one guy who has the chance to be an impact position player. I think we may look back years from now and see Vitters and Matt Wieters as two stud hitters coming out of a strong draft. More importantly, if he proves to reach his potential, it gives the Cubs a offensive weapon for several years not at premium salary. With a front office whose MO has been to spend, spend and overspend, having a few key hitters not being paid $10M a season is a key. If Hendry trades Vitters I will have lost any faith I have in the man.

Secondly, Wellington Castillo seems to be moving up the charts and appears to be a very well rounded catcher. He’s a guy who very well could be backing up Geo Soto in the next season or so. Here’s a question… if Castillo proves to be a starting caliber catcher, do the Cubs toy with the idea of sliding Soto over the first base? Very few catchers are able to perform offensively over the long haul and the increased day games of Wrigley will take their toll on Soto more than anyone. If Castillo continues to grow offensively, is moving Soto to first in the next few seasons something worth considering?

by dmlichte on Nov 29, 2008 1:06 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually I watched Soto play 1B in the summer of 2007

Playing in CO Springs he played 1B in the two games we went when IA was there, (funny no I-Cubs in CO Springs last year). I think it is kind of early to consider him moving to 1B unless catching diminishes his offense, but having two catchers is a great thing.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 29, 2008 2:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind

seeing him use Soto like LA uses Russel Martin and have Soto play 1B on days he’s not catching

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 29, 2008 2:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if wellington is legitimate defensively i would have no problem

moving soto to first after d lee expires

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 3:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re:

for the most part, wellington is legitimate. He still needs some fine tuning, but more than anything, he just needs experience. The bigger question with Wellington is his bat. Worst case scenario right now is probably Hank White. Some folks think that he will develop a bit more power in time.

I wouldn’t mind keeping Wellington. Considering the value, though, of catching prospects, if Wellington comes through with a solid season next year, I’m more inclined to think he is trade bait. We’ve got some decent catching depth in the system.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 3:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with this.

Castillo could wind up being a backup after Blanco retires and if he shows well enough in that role, could have even higher trade value with some major league experience.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 3:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i would assume that koyie hill starts the year

as a backup and then castillo could get there by playing well… I assume that the tigers will throw starting money at blanco

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 4:25 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why the Tigers?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 5:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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