Just What Is The Market Rate For A Closer?

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:58 AM CST Comment 32 comments

A clue can be found in this New York Daily News article:

Brian Fuentes' representatives told the Mets the free agent closer is seeking a three-year deal worth $10 million to $11 million annually, according to a source familiar with the discussion. That price tag is a bit high for the Mets, but they are still interested in the former Rockie.

Note, incidentally, what name is not mentioned in that article: Kerry Wood. If that's the market price for Brian Fuentes -- I don't see Wood getting such an offer from anyone. I still think Wood and the Cubs will come to a one-year agreement, perhaps with incentives. That'd make a lot of sense for both Kerry (who could prove he's healthy by putting up another injury-free year) and the Cubs (who would, obviously, benefit from such a season).

Finally, a quote from Mets GM Omar Minaya in that article is particularly interesting:

"Right now we're in the early stages. My understanding is a lot of clubs are reevaluating this market, more so because of the unfortunate financial strain that is going on not only in baseball but throughout the world."

That's undeniably true. We may see free agents signing for a lot less than otherwise might have been expected.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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woody

with lou saying the team is short in the bullpen this move becomes even more puzzling.letting wood go is a bad move.

by NOMAR on Nov 29, 2008 5:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

injuries and money....

The market for Woody will be lower because of injuries. Not because of his demands for the bank, he is a classy guy and will not let his ego get in the way. With him being left out in the article, you can see that other teams with no emotional ties have no use for an older,injurie prone closer. Now , with all we know the direction the Cubs are going, do we even want him on the team. What if Carlos M. struggles in the closer role, will Lou and the higher ups, be quicker to put Woody back in. Are we better as him(C.M.)as the closer with no insurance? Look, voice of reason here, we won 97 games last yr., we need to win 97 next yr. also, then let the chips fall where they may. Fix the leadoff problem, and get a good team player lefty bat and roll with that. Would it be out of the question to keep Woody , but reverse the rolls(woody set up, C.M. closer)then if he gets,ahem,blister,we ar’nt scrambling around.

ernie81

by ernie81 on Nov 29, 2008 5:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wood

Every day I get a little more confident and hopeful he will remain a Cub.

It's a boy. My new nephew William Oliver born 11/14/2008 256 am. Thank you to all who offered best wishes when I mentioned it a few times over this summer and fall.

That's not my nephew in the picture. Don't have one to upload yet.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Nov 29, 2008 7:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Youd have to be nuts to give 10M/yr for a closer

I know elite closers dont grow on trees, but the save is such a bogus stat, that it gets way overvalued,which leads to guys who sometimes only pitch 2/3 of an inning getting 10M dollars a year.

But if that is what Wood is expecting, I cant fault Hendry for going another way….but then that brings up the whole issue of whether or not Kerry wouldve taken less, as some have hinted.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Nov 29, 2008 8:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree 100%

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Brewers paid $10 million for Eric Gagne last year...

… and he sucked.

Francisco Cordero signed for $12m/year with the Reds.

That might not be that far from reality, for Fuentes. Whether Wood would have, or still would, take less is another story.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lot of stuff to do

Listen your love of Wood is appreciative but the Cubs are close to $125M committed in the mix of a $136M April budget limit.

Wood is a luxury though one that could a WS roster closer once things get taken care of.

Cubs need a LH bat in the OF first. And until those options are exhausted the money will not be allocated. They are fortunate that two more valued closers are in the market, Rodriquez and Fuentes, plus an old timer in Hoffman.

This gives the Cubs time to put things together. But then there is a roster spot?

Cubs currently have: Marmol, Gregg, Gaudin, Samardz, Guzman, Wuertz, Cotts, Hill, Marshall, Hart Ascanio on the roster

Lot of moving to do.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Nov 29, 2008 10:06 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think

this year’s winter meetings will be bigger and better than ever.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i am hesitant to ever pay more than 7 million for a reliever uness they have proven to be consistent

and amazing… They jsut dont pitch that much and they are the type of arm that can be drafted and replaced easily… I think that Cashner is going to be ready to go by the end of the year which is why i think that we have no business giving kerry lots of years… I like kerry so dont accuse me of being insensitive.

BTW just so we are clear i think Cashner will be dynamite out of the bullpen..

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

That's a pretty fast track for Cashner...

… and yes, I know the Cubs wanted to fast-track him. Still, I’d say 2010 at the earliest.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yea i agree with you Al but i think that college closers can do it

and the only reason he would take longer is if we tried to start him. he was dynamite as a closer with a 98 MPH heater and plus slider. So lets just let him be what we drafted…. i am sure he could come up by september… Then again he sucked in the minors but we were starting him i believe.. Also he had the same types of mediocre results at TCU when they tried starting him also

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

cashner

was actually solid in the postseason. I think he may get a September callup, although he needs to fix his control issues. If not, he’s more Kevin Gregg than people think. If he does fix it, then he could definitely be a solid young arm.

The history of college closers drafted high with the intent of fast-tracking them, btw, is more iffy than they sound. Look around – there’s more J. Brent Cox, Ryan Wagner, and others than there are successes. Some of them (Chad Cordero and Huston Street) were fairly overrated when they were doing well. I think Cashner’s stuff is above the level of Cordero/Street and others, but let him work out his kinks first, particularly since our pen will be quite young, with Shark and Angel Guzman in potentially key setup roles.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That really would be the fast track.

I hope you’re right; it would show real good drafting talent from Wilken.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re

I think they may call Cashner up more in an attempt to get his feet wet, provided he’s shown some development with his control, and not necessarily because we would lean on him.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Possibly.

I could see that, pitching in games in September that (hopefully) wouldn’t mean anything!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't doubt a Sept. Callup

but don’t see him getting called up other wise

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 29, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

when the Cubs offer arbitration he will accept.

they will do so to get compensation if they lose him, and he will accept because he really wants to be here.

by wfree0104 on Nov 29, 2008 3:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hope you're right.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Market for Closers

In general, I think the market for proven closers is above 8 million a year. I think the problem for Wood, and all the closers this year, isn’t necessarily his health (which is a factor, though a new report suggested the Mets were thinking hard about him) but rather that there are a lot of closers on the market and not as many teams searching.

At the end of the day, much as I want him back, I think the ship has sailed unless we miss on several targets and have the money to spare. I just don’t see how we can fit him into our payroll now that we have Gregg’s money on the hook, while also resigning Blanco, adding an OF and perhaps another (top of the order) bat.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 3:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Keep in mind...

… what Minaya said about teams re-evaluating costs given the current economic situation.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How much do you believe that's really going on

and how much is that a talking point to try and drive agents to lower their prices?

e.g. I don’t see ticket prices going down. The cost of Extra Innings isn’t dropping.

There is a real economic situation, but do MLB owners really think their income will be dropping?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 29, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's possible it's a talking point.

Where have you seen an EI price already? I haven’t.

And if it doesn’t sell at the price they have it, you can be sure they’ll lower it.

Or, maybe not. Most smart sellers would, but you can never call MLB moguls “smart”.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I haven't seen a price for EI.

But when a last place team located where economic troubles are worst raises prices, I don’t think we can expect any good price news. I think we’d have heard it by now if it was going to be there.

by DGU on Nov 29, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's no correlation.

Each team, and EI, can do as they please. The Red Sox froze prices. The Tigers would have been smart to do so.

The Cubs have not yet announced pricing. I’d like to think they’ll hold the line, but we may not know for a while… usually, early December is the time when season ticket invoices come out.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

beimel

we need beimel right now worse than wood. big time southpaw out of the pen. the closer situation will work itself out. we have marmol,gregg,cashner to close. no more living and dying on the status of kerry wood’s health.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re:

I’d love Beimel, but I’m not sure if we can afford to go that route prior to addressing other needs. Beimel might get around a 4 mil AAV.

I think we’ll address our needs and see what lefty is available on the market. Maybe we swing a trade for a lefty. The one good thing about Kevin Gregg that I liked is that he should be able to be solid against lefties. I wouldn’t be surprised if we looked to Jeremy Papelbon or Casey Lambert (or even Veal if he sticks with us) as lefty pen options.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Veal

I wish we would have protected him from the Rule 5…we didn’t right?

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Nov 29, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You really think Veal has something left?

He sure didn’t show it in the AFL.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Nov 29, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Money issues aside…Beimel would be very helpful in the pen. But I think LH OFer is still priority #1.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Nov 29, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i am not sure if we are going to offer kerry arbritration

i think management is afraid he will accept (we will find out on this day exactly how weird our finances are)

Hopefully we get good news december first

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 4:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

anyone else having navigation issues within this fanpost?

although hitting the “z” key does go to the next unread comment, the screen doesn’t scroll down to where that it is, so I never see it unless I manually scroll down and see the new comments based on the color change.

It’s only happening in this fanpost though. Everything is working just fine in other fanposts. Strange…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Nov 29, 2008 6:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs