Sickels Top 20 List

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 3:56 PM CST

Considering it's part of SBN, I thought it'd be interesting to get a discussion going on Sickels top 20 list, posted over at www.minorleagueball.com. I wanted to get mylist done, but I've been busy of late.

Sickels list:

1) Josh Vitters, 3B, Grade B+: Hopefully the home run power should start to come in 2009. Great contact hitting skills and still very young.

2) Jeff Samardzija, RHP, Grade B: I have no idea what to expect here. Could be great, could be horrible, track record very erratic.

3) Ryan Flaherty, SS, Grade B: Looks like a solid all-around player to me.

4) Andrew Cashner, RHP, Grade B-: High ceiling due to fastball and slider, command issues may slow progress.

5) Hak-Ju Lee, SS, Grade B-: Scouting reports look great, but want to see some numbers before ranking higher.

6) Jay Jackson, RHP, Grade B-: I LOVE this guy…good athlete, former philosophy major, throws hard, throws strikes, great pro debut. I think he is underrated by other sources.

7) Tyler Colvin, OF, Grade C+: Still worried about his plate discipline.

8) Welington Castillo, C, Grade C+: Good glove, hits well in flashes, maybe a Miguel Olivo type?

9) Dae-Eun Rhee, RHP, Grade C+: Would rank higher if not for Tommy John.

10) Aaron Shafer, RHP, Grade C+: Wichita State product with sharp command. Elbow injury cost him velocity.

11) Starlin Castro, SS, Grade C+: Intriguing toolsy infielder had strong AZL debut. A sleeper.

12) Junior Lake, SS, Grade C+: Intriguing toolsy infielder had strong AZL debut. A sleeper.

13) Dan McDaniel, RHP, Grade C+: Lots of strikeouts and grounders at Boise. Command an issue. Could rank as high as 10th.

14) Micah Hoffpauir, 1B, Grade C: Too old to rank higher but he has a major league bat. Where does he play?

15) Esmailin Caridad, RHP, Grade C: Low strikeout rate a concern, but I think he can do well in relief.

16) Don Veal, LHP, Grade C: Stock has fallen massively due to command and mechanical issues. Not protected for Rule 5, which tells you a lot.

17) Josh Kroeger, OF, Grade C: He finally learned some plate discipline and has done well in Triple-A. Getting old for a prospect.

18) Tony Thomas, 2B, Grade C: Strike zone judgment collapsed in Florida State League.

19) Chris Carpenter, RHP, Grade C: Command problems and poor health record reduce stock, but he throws very hard and has upside if he can stay away from doctors.

20) Mitch Atkins, RHP, Grade C: Possibly a fifth starter type if he can sharpen command more.

My thoughts:

Not surprising that Shark got a B. I agree with that as well. The potential is high, but the consistency has to get there, so a B is fair.

A bit surprised he gave Flaherty a B. I imagine some folks will discuss that over at his site, as some folks thought a B- was high for Flaherty when I posted my tentative list awhile back. I can buy a B, though.

I think he's a bit low on Castillo, but I can buy it as well, as the bat is a question.

I think he is awful low on Jovan Rosa. I mean, I can understand that folks think I'm high on Rosa, but to not put him in the top 20 (I know he says that you can arrange it in different ways) in our system?

I never read the reports on Caridad's velo increasing in AZL. If he can maintain it, then that's good news for us.

I've never rated Kroeger so far this year because he is a minor league free agent. I hope we keep him. If we do, sure I can buy the rating.

Anyone else?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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nice post

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 29, 2008 4:00 PM CST reply actions

Here's a question -

If you had to take one of this year’s C+ prospects and bet on him to do what Samardzija did last year, who would it be?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Nov 29, 2008 4:15 PM CST reply actions

Castillo.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 29, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions

i'm assuming you are referencing Sickels list of C+'s

my own list being different.

Based on Sickels list of C+’s (Colvin, Castillo, Lee, Castro, Lake, McDaniel, Shafer, Rhee), if I had to bet on one taking a big step forward (I’m assuming that’s what you are getting at, and not necessarily reaching the bigs), I’d go with Dan McDaniel, if they keep him in the pen. He has a solid three pitch arsenal and if he sharpens things up, could rise quickly as a pen arm. Part of me would like to see him worked as a starter, though. My 2nd guess? Junior Lake. He’ll likely get moved off short, and let’s see if he can let his natural offensive ability show through.

I’ll rate it this way (in terms of guys taking huge steps forward)

1. McDaniel – solid bullpen arsenal.
2. Lake – raw offensive ability is exciting.
3. Shafer – can more time away lead to better velo? or is this a bobby brownlie-ish situation?
4. Castro – good all-around tools, but I think we may patiently develop him at short.
5. Castillo – a big jump means his power improves, his overall offensive consistency improves.
6. Colvin – sort of wait and see. put it this way, a big step forward means that I think he’s deserving to be in the bigs somewhere in 2009. I don’t see it right now.
7. Lee – sort of curious if he has some pop in his bat, but I could see some struggles for a youngster adjusting to a different country, which wouldn’t be the worst thing.

N/A – Rhee, due to surgery thus making it hard for him to emerge in 2009.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions

We should just let Colvin swing

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 4:43 PM CST reply actions

re:

The counter, though, is that the success rate of individuals with his discipline, or lack thereof, is quite low.

That said, forcing discipline isn’t a good idea either, as it takes away from some of his instincts. He needs to try and find a decent medium.

I think first thing is to see what happens when he returns to play, whether that’s early or a month or so in. We’ll see if the injury impacted his overall performance last year.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 4:53 PM CST up reply actions

you could very well be correct

i have no freaking clue what to make of this guy.. Was he really injured all year?

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions

Not only Rosa

Not only has Sickles possibly missed on Rosa, I’ll bet he’ll be kicking himself three yrs in the future for not including Barney and Sampson.

by Slamdog on Nov 29, 2008 5:04 PM CST reply actions

Barney seems to be overlooked a lot

Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right

by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Nov 29, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions

enough questions about the bat

with Barney. I’m not sold Barney is a regular in the bigs … just yet. He has some offensive potential, at least, for the position, but he has to produce at some point.

As for Samson (I’m assuming that’s who Slamdog is referring to), he profiles more in that Theriot/Eckstein mold, and those guys just don’t get rated highly while coming up the system. I like Samson quite a bit, and from what I understand, there’s a tiny bit more power possible.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions

Barney

Is a guy that I’ve had my eye on for a while. Ever since I heard we drafted that SS from the team that won the College World Series (don’t remember what college it was) I started thinking about what he could do.

I’ve heard he has an average bat and pretty much average defense, but he seems like one of those gritty, hard working type players. Reminds me a little of Jack Wilson.

I think his upside would be around a AAAA player or a utility infielder.

I am like your Dan Aykroyd and biglow would be Jane, the ignorant slut. -Chad

by thecoolest on Nov 29, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions

his glove

should be fine. very athletic kid and really, the only flaws i’ve seen or heard of is more an issue with consistency. that said, his bat is a problem. he may be chin-lung hu-ish. I think he’s got a shot as a utility infielder/backup shortstop (look around the league, not many great shortstops).

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 10:17 PM CST up reply actions

That's how I saw him when I saw him play in the AFL game I went to.

He and Nate Spears both project as utility infielders at the ML level — and perhaps good ones, too. They’re very similar players, meaning one of them could be traded.

That is, if Spears isn’t taken in the Rule 5 draft.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 30, 2008 4:19 AM CST up reply actions

I think I was less impressed with Barney in the AFL League

Then you Al. I am not holding out much hope for Barney to contribute to the Cubs or any MLB organization for that matter. Spears though, I was impressed with. Well, by impressed I mean that he could actually be a decent utility player for the Cubs.

Although I still don’t think Spears will be taken in the Rule 5 draft, I’m still surprised the Cubs didn’t find a way to put him on the 40 man roster. They have room for Sam Fuld but not Spears? How exactly does one come to that decision? Makes zero sense to me.

Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen

by lemon20pie on Nov 30, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions

I agree with you re: Fuld and Spears.

Makes no sense whatsoever.

I wasn’t really praising Barney that much — I think his defense, though, could make him a decent utility player someday.

Spears, I believe, has the talent to do that right now.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 30, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions

Totally agree on Spears -

the only explanation I can come up with is that it’s charity to Spears, since he’s behind Fontenot who’s behind DeRosa.

by DGU on Nov 30, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe.

We’ll see if he gets taken.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 1, 2008 4:07 AM CST up reply actions

i am not big on barney.. DOnt think he will hit...

I think the AFL this year was an abberation

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions

I know hindsight is 20/20

But who else would have loved Travis Snider over Colvin?? Snider was a high schooler i believe and already played for the Blue Jays last year and is a consensus top 5 prospect…

Instead we got the Clemson Tiger… GOd i hate clemson…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 5:16 PM CST reply actions

Yep.

Snider would have been a far better pick.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Nov 29, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions

or Joba

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 5:46 PM CST up reply actions

Joba

There’s a reason beyond scouting why not only the Cubs didnt select Joba and it could be releated to whats called the “Joba Rules”, which I believe has something to do with his health and arm. I was reading an article that stated that alot of clubs were not able to select Joba because of his physical health, including some major arm concerns. Not sure if that includes the Cubs, but alot of clubs let him pass after the Cubs. Snider could have been a miss, one thing for sure he wouldnt have played Lf for us in 2008 and we’ll see how it plays out for later years.

by Slamdog on Nov 29, 2008 6:55 PM CST reply actions

re: Joba

His weight as a huge issue when he came out.

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 7:39 PM CST up reply actions

Driving

Maybe not being behind the wheel as much during the late evenings!

by Slamdog on Nov 30, 2008 8:34 AM CST up reply actions

If I must post something encouraging about Cubs prospects..

….I’d say that barring any trades involving these prospects, The Cubs could have a decent Middle Infield in 3 years with Hak-Ju Lee at SS and Flaherty at 2nd (I think that’s where he will end up). Then beyond that, Vitters at 3rd would give them a decent IF. Obviously it’s impossible to predict the future or if these players live up to their potential or become the next Hee Seop Choi , but I think they will be the Cubs top 3 prospects very soon.

Ofcourse the thing that jumps out at me and takes away most of the hope I have for the Cubs system, is the utter lack of anything whatsoever in the way of OF prospects.

Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen

by lemon20pie on Nov 29, 2008 7:09 PM CST reply actions

re:

I’d be hard pressed to buy Lee being ready in 3 years. Flaherty, yes. Lee? He’d have to be as good as Rhee was as a pitcher last year and move up consistently. Even then, the Cubs may slow play him.

Let’s “mock” out his timeline

2009 – XST, probably Arizona, outside shot at Boise
2010 – a superb season and maybe he starts in Peoria, but the betting money now would be something like XST/Boise outside shot at Peoria
2011 – Likely crack at full season ball, likely Peoria or Daytona.

That’s 3 years in. A positive scenario and he’s potentially at Tennessee at the end of 2011, but that’s extremely positive and assumes smooth development. I’m more inclined to think that Castro could be ready in 3 years if his bat develops.

I’m not too worried about the lack of OF prospects. You can find Of’s. I’m more worried about the lack of power in the system (from a positional perspective).

by toonsterwu on Nov 29, 2008 7:43 PM CST up reply actions

I agree that 3 years for Lee is a very accelerated ETA

probably more likely around 2012 but from everything I’ve read about him, he’s got sharp tools and he could be one of those prospects that rises through the system rather quickly.

Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen

by lemon20pie on Nov 29, 2008 7:49 PM CST up reply actions

if justin upton can play at 19 so can Hu-Jak

i am buying my jersey tomorrow

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Nov 29, 2008 9:01 PM CST up reply actions

wander what would

have become of hee seop if not for that game which he banged his head and got a concussion. he seemed to be primed for quality type player before then.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Nov 30, 2008 1:41 AM CST up reply actions

re:

I’m not sure that made a huge difference. Hee Seop always had that hole in his swing, but when you are younger, it’s often overlooked with the hope that he’ll eventually adjust. That was Choi’s biggest issue, and one he never addressed.

by toonsterwu on Nov 30, 2008 2:07 AM CST up reply actions