Official Kerry Wood (And Others) Arbitration Deadline Day Thread
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:09 AM CST
in News
237 comments
Today is the deadline for major league teams to offer arbitration to their free agents -- 10:59 pm Central time, specifically, so we may not hear specifics till tomorrow.
photo via assets.espn.go.com
So does Kerry Wood get offered arbitration? Yes. No. Maybe. You can bet that if he is offered arb, he'll accept -- and don't assume that's a budget-breaker, either. Wood wants to remain a Cub -- we all know that. It's more than possible he'll take less than an arbitrator would award to do so. The deadline for Wood to accept arb, if offered, is next Sunday, December 7.
What will be more interesting to see is whether other players, particularly, as noted in Ken Rosenthal's article above, Adam Dunn, are offered arbitration. It's possible the Diamondbacks will want to keep him; we'll see after today.
Other Cub rumors are summarized neatly in this Dave van Dyck article, in which he says, basically, nothing's happening right now and isn't likely to until the winter meetings get under way next week.
Use this thread for arbitration and trade discussion today. I'll update the post with any new information if it comes in during the day.
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I expect he'll get offered...
If the Cubs expect him to take a multi-year deal elsewhere, it makes no sense not to offer him. The only reason the Cubs wouldn’t make an offer is if they REALLY don’t want Wood on the team next year at any price.
Offering arbitration will make things interesting from another perspective. Was Kerry Wood paying lip service to the idea of remaining a Cub and making the Cubs look like the bad guy, or would he genuinely turn down a multi-year offer elsewhere to remain a Cub for one more year? I’d like to believe he was being completely genuine, but that remains to be seen. Hopefully, my cynical side is wrong on this one and the optimistic side is right.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 8:21 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm going to go against my left brain and logic...
…and let my right brain override it. We need this guy back, he’s the face of the franchise, has given us his heart (after we have given $$$), and wants to be a Cub. The millions might be better spent elsewhere, but this time, I’m gonna let feeling and warm fuzzies override my logic, stats-backing, cold pricklies.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 9:05 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
More than warm fuzzies...
… he was one of the better closers in baseball last year. Why would you get rid of someone who did the job he was asked to do?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mainly because:
(1) Age-old question if he can continue his success and not blow his arm out, blah blah blah. He looked fine to me last year and sans a blister, no big issues.
And more importantly:
(2) Who could we use his salary on instead?
I’ve determined neither of these things matter, because if it means KEVIN GREGG is our closer/set-up man – who’s the equivalent of Turtle from Entourage (or Sal, if you know what I’m talking about…) standing on the mound and throwing the baseball – then I want Woody, damnit.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be surprised....
…if Wood is indeed offered arbitration and declines due to a “gentleman’s agreement” he may have with Hendry. Doing so wouldn’t preclude the two sides from continuing to negotiate and would still leave Wood the options of signing a multi-year deal elsewhere or coming back to Chicago under whatever scenario you choose to imagine. I don’t think we’re looking at a scenario here where the Cubs offer and Wood plays “gotcha” and accepts.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 1, 2008 9:08 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would not be surprised at this at all...
Given the relationship between the two sides, this scenario would not be a shock at all to me.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Entirely possible.
However, even if he accepts, that doesn’t mean the two sides are required to go to an actual hearing. They could continue to negotiate the same as above.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, but accepting eliminates the picks...
That’s the point. If Wood declines, we have a chance to get picks (if Wood eventually signs elsewhere). If he accepts, that eliminates that possibility. Rejecting gives the Cubs a chance to sign him again or to get picks, while not really damaging Wood’s situation.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me get this straight
When a team offers arbitration to a player, and the player declines it and signs elsewhere, the club is given 1st round picks as compensation?
And, when a club signs a high-ticket free agent, they lose draft picks. Do i have this right?
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
by calicubfan on Dec 1, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The second draft pick for signing a Type A free agent
is a sandwich pick. The first draft pick comes from the signing team. A sandwich pick is a supplemental pick that is given to the team losing the free agent. This pick occurs between the first and second round and does not come from the team that signs the free agent. In other words, the signing team only loses one pick. Compensation for a Type B free agent is one sandwich pick.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 1, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus
there are rules about teams with bad records not losing a pick if the pick is in the top 15. For example the Cubs didn’t lose their high pick (Vitters) after signing Soriano due to their poor record in 2006.
This rule helps the poor teams by not having them lose a top pick by trying to improve and signing a FA.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So What Happens If The Mets Sign...
…both Wood and Howry after the Cubs offered arbitration to both?
Would the Cubs get the Mets first round draft pick plus 3 sandwich picks?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
The Cubs would get the Mets’ 1st and 2nd round picks (unless the Mets also sign other Type A FAs, in which case the picks are determined by Elias) and 2 sandwich picks.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 7:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically, yeah...
It is a bit more complicated, but that’s the general idea. There are tiers of guys (Type A, Type B, etc). The type of player offered makes a difference as to how many picks you gain/lose for sgning/losing a player offered arbitration.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This Is Probably What Will Happen...
… Woody (and his agent) will maximize their gauge as to what is out there during the Winter Meetings next week. I expect the Cubs to offer arbitration and for Woody to decline it.
After Woody sees next week that he will not get the 3+ years that he hoped for, he’ll come back to Hendry with what he did come up with and work out a deal with the Cubs.
That’s best for us, too, as we will have a better gauge as to what we’ve done, what we need, etc. We will also have the new owner in place as well…
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the new owner will be in place
Today is the deadline for final offers (I think). I doubt they’ll decide which one to take in less than two weeks.
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
by JohnM on Dec 1, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, and...
… Wood has to decide whether to accept or decline arb BEFORE the winter meetings start.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect...
…the Cubs will offer him arbitration.
In regards to Van Dyke, I have been touting the 2 year window for some time now, and the clock is ticking on this core group. Hendry is probably working harder than he ever has this offseason (because of budget limits) and its looking like it will take some cooperation from some willing trade partners, to fill the gaps.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 1, 2008 9:10 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on all counts...
… particularly the two-year window. That’s probably why Lou took the 2010 extension. That’s probably the time frame this group has.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Plus Lee/Lilly is a free agent after 2010, Ramirez can opt out, DeRosa/Harden can be gone by then as well. We would just have Soto, and older Soriano, Fukudome, Marmol, Dempster and Zambrano around really. Thats why I would like to add another young player to build with Soto, so when the other guys get older, we can still do well with them in supporting roles. Kinda like when we added Ramirez/Lee in 03-04, when we had an older Alou/Sosa.
by cubsfan25 on Dec 1, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All the more reason to not trade for Peavy
We need young players like Vitters to come up and make an impact for cheap.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 1, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
where
do you plan on vitters making an impact at in the next 1-2 years?? seems blocked by a good 3b. but yeah your right we should play for the future, thats the attitude to have when you havent won in 101 years.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 1, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vitters is a couple years away
He can step in if Ramirez opts out, or he can play first when Lee leaves.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 1, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly my point
he doesnt help this year. peavy would. were built to win right now. i find it hysterical when fans wanna stop the 101 years of losing but dont wanna give up a ? mark in the future to improve the team now.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 1, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen
by lemon20pie on Dec 1, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Lots of inconsistecy here lately..
Lets worry about 2011 when it comes..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 1, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about Felix Pie and Ronny Cedeno?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I find really interesting is the divergent stories on the question
stories lacking quotes or explanation of where the author is getting his/her information.
Would somebody please investigate this story!
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily, really.
We’ll have our answer by tomorrow morning.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not likely, it seems to me.
If the Cubs don’t offer arb, we still won’t know why.
If Kerry doesn’t accept, there will be questions.
The only way we know something is if the Cubs offer and we hear that Kerry will be accepting and negotiating.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this has been a boooooooring hot stove season.
Maybe the economy has hurt the stove; the wood choppers were let go and now there’s no one to heat the stove anymore.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're joking, but...
… there’s a grain of truth in there. There is no doubt that the economic troubles have made a lot of teams reconsider big free-agent offers, which is why we have seen few signings to date.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because it hasn't really started
usually the winter meetings are the start. It’s only December 1st. Teams haven’t even been signing FA’s until the arbitration decisions are made.
I think this will be an interesting off-season as the economy may impact some of the salaries. The top guys may get their money but the lower tier guys may find it tougher going.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the stories diverge all that much.
1. Muskat says the Cubs will likely offer arbitration, without speculating on whether Wood will accept or not.
2. Wittenmyer says the Cubs will only offer arbitration if they believe Wood won’t accept.
3. Rosenthal doesn’t really speculate, but just describes the issues at hand.
The three could all be in agreement if the Cubs offer and Wood doesn’t accept. It’s true that they could be in conflict, but it’s not explicit based on what they wrote.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The articles point in different directions
however we parse them. My complaint stands. Why haven’t the Cubs been pressed on what it was that caused them to think Kevin Gregg was worth dropping our 3rd best prospect to get, when Kerry Wood said he’d do “anything” to stay with the Cubs?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't really see how they point in different directions...
As the first two may actually be saying the same thing in the end.
But I completely agree that getting Gregg (for one of our better prospects). I think the basic “rationale” is two-fold: the Cubs don’t think Wood will really do “anything” to stay with the Cubs, and they feel that they thus need to replace him. I think trading for Gregg was a poor decision, but that may be more of an issue of poor talent evaluation.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg strikes me as more than just poor talent evaluation.
It doesn’t take much to look at Gregg and see Michael Wuertz who drove Lou crazy. Unless the Cubs have some genius “fix” to Gregg’s control problems, I don’t see how he isn’t going to drive Lou just as crazy.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's poor talent evaluation...
I think this is a “grass is greener” scenario, where the Cubs see “other team’s closer” and have overlooked the fact that he’s Michael Wuertz with more walks.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's grass-is-greener, then that's sad.
It seemed more like to me, that they just wanted someone to acquire as an excuse to make the Kerry Wood is bye-bye press conference.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ask This Question...
… as we get into ST.
Ceda’s stock had dropped this year. Perhaps Hendry was willing to punt before it dropped more.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ceda's stock wasn't going to drop any more until he plays again.
I think it’s clear that Hendry didn’t value Ceda nearly as much as the scouts who swayed Kevin Goldstien in his prospect list. That’s fine. I wasn’t high on Ceda myself. That doesn’t change the fact that we undersold him. Two different sources (Neyer and Rosenthal I think) said teams were surprised Ceda was traded for so little.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I would agree with that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Howry
Wittenmyer says:
The Cubs aren’t expected to offer arbitration to Type A pitcher Bob Howry ($4 million salary in ‘08), who’s likely to face a steep pay cut in the open market.
When did 2 M become “steep”?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, it's a 50% cut.
In percentage terms, that’s pretty steep.
And it may be a bigger cut than that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but in terms of risk to the Cubs budget...
it’s a money they find in between the couch cushions.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Risk to the budget, yes.
Risk to seeing opposition home run balls keep flying out of the yard, too high for me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 1, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying we keep him.
I’m saying look past your disgust as his 2008 pitching performance and see his value as an asset.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of asset?
You do NOT want him accepting arbitration.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He can be traded.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To whom?
You’re serious? After he accepts a Cubs offer of arb, someone’s going to trade for that? I think you’re dreaming.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants are already connected to him.
Take another look at Howry’s stats over the past 3 years. Take another look at relievers, say Danys Baez, who have gotten huge deals. There is a market for Howry and the only reason Cub fans can’t see it is because we hated watching him pitch for 4 months.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that the market for Howry...
…changes significantly if the Cubs offer him arbitration. The Giants may be willing to offer more money if they don’t have to surrender their first-round pick.
And if the difference in salary between the Giants’ offer with and without arbitration is somewhere around the difference between that and what he’d get from the Cubs in arb, weeeeeell…
by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's happens if he accepts and gets say $4-5Mil?
and the Giants say no thanks? You can’t offer arbitration just to trade the player.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am confident that there is a market for Bob Howry
at 1 year and 3 M. If we eat 2 M, that shouldn’t really be a problem, should it?
The Phillies got stuck with Placido Polanco a few years back when they were ready to give Utley the 2B job, but decided to offer Polanco arb. Eventually, they were able to trade him. The Padres last year offered Barret arb and he accepted and was injured before they could trade him. So, yeah, we could get stuck with Howry, but 4 M is the cost. 2 draft picks are worth that risk.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes you can offer arbitration and trade him if he accepts.
He is considered to be a signed player.
Why would the Giants trade for him?
1. They won’t lose a draft choice as they would if they signed him as a FA.
2. They would have a good idea of what his salary would be in arbitration since the arbitrator looks at the established market.
3. They can still negotiate a multi-year contract with him.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Howry
The Cubs can’t cut his salary by $2M if he accepts arbitration. I believe that via arbitration they can only cut his salary by $800 or 20%.
by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is probably the biggest reason...
… they’re saying goodbye. Same for Edmonds, who the Cubs paid only a prorated share of the minimum last year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point for all those people
who say just offer him arbitration and lowball him. There are limits on the lowball. I don’t expect that Howry will get arbitration as Gregg takes his spot.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is not true.
The 80% rule only applies to arb cases in which the player has no 6-year rights. When a FA accepts his club’s arb offer, the club can offer anything and the player can ask for anything. The arbitrator will decide based on comparing the entire market of relief pitchers (or whatever position) — not just players with X years of experience as he does for 3rd or 4th year players.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there an online site
That outlines all of these rules? Even if its just the entire collective bargaining agreement or something with a billion pages? I’m just curious and want to see the entire thing.
by TheHawk5 on Dec 1, 2008 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not If Teams #1-#15...
… who are looking for a closer would be turned off by losing their draft picks.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry... I Thought...
… I was replying to another thread. Anyways, check my response below.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The CBA is located at the MLBPA site.
Check here.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's be clear on what I'm saying.
Worst case scenario – Howry accepts arb and we have to pay him 4.5 M.
We can still eat 2 M and trade him for something valuable. On a one year deal, the man has value.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And then decrease
this year’s payroll by another $2 Mil. In general, teams don’t offer arbitration when they don’t want the player.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, they do.
I gave two examples above – Polanco and Barrett.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing the hypotheticals...
let’s just say Wood is offered and accepts arbitration.
Does that move Gregg onto the trading block (if he’s not already there)? And would he be one of those “experience” bullpen arms that had been discussed (in other posts) in looking into a trade with Cleveland for Shin-Soo Choo?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 1, 2008 9:46 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I would say it moves either Gregg or Wood to the block...
Rosenthal suggests that IF Wood is offered and accepts, he could become a trade possibility to a team like Texas.
But yeah, one of them would seem almost certainly trade bound if Wood accepts arbitration.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that in Rosenthal's column
I would find it tough, given Wood and Hendry’s relationship, for them to offer and accept arbitration with the intent of trading Wood.
I can’t imagine the emotional roller coaster that would put fans on, either. It would be easier for Hendy, at least in the court of public opinion, to move Gregg.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 1, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I say it puts Gregg in the Howry (7th inning) role.
What’s wrong with that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 10:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A few things...
For one, the seventh inning wasn’t the Howry inning. It was the Marmol “bail the team out of a huge jam or finish the next inning after bailing the team out in the 6th” inning. For another, we have a few guys arguably just as capable as Gregg (Samardzija, Wuertz, Gaudin) for the seventh.
Getting Gregg was probably a bad idea in any situation, but it’s doubly bad if you wind up with Wood again. At least if Wood was gone, it would have made some sense (though I’d have gone a different direction than Gregg).
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg could be traded.
There would no doubt be teams interested, especially with many teams looking for closers and not wanting to spend a fortune.
Maybe there is some method behind Hendry’s seeming “madness” on this issue.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And Cleveland might be a good destination
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on Dec 1, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or the Mets. Or Brewers. Or Cardinals.
A lot of teams are looking for closers.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing wrong with that
I could see Guzman (if healthy) or Samardzija (if he continues to improve) in that 7th-inning role, as well, should Gregg get moved.
And if Gregg can fetch some offense, I wouldn’t be opposed to moving him.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 1, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood has 10 and 5 doesn't he?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If re-signed, yes.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Wood is currently at 9.169. IOW, he is three days short of being 10-and-5. If he were to accept arbitration he could be traded in ST, but would have a veto after 3 days of regular season play.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ooo
shin-soo choo, sweet line drive swing, love to have that guy.
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 1, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Think Gregg Was Obtained...
… from Hendry with the idea of having him replace Howry. At the time, though, it helped Wood’s cause to “push him out the door” to get better offers, hence the story of Gregg replacing Marmol, and Marmol replacing Woody.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Woody Won't Accept Arb if Offered
You know what, I actually don’t think Woody will accept if offered. Granted, he wants to remain with the Cubs, but he doesn’t want to go somewhere where he’s not wanted, first of all, he’s too proud for that. And second, he can’t turn down the chance to get 2, maybe 3 years @ $10m each.
However, the Cubs won’t take any chances and they will not offer him arb. Unless they come to an agreement that he won’t accept. Otherwise, Hendry won’t take that chance.
Gregg is a poor replacement for Woody, so we better hope that Marmol can handle the job. Personally, despite his great stuff, I have my doubts.
by rememberthecoop on Dec 1, 2008 10:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
No way Wood gets 2 or 3 years at 10 million per from some club....
…no way.
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 1, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuentes, K-Rod, Hoffman
It seems like Wood is at the bottom of the list. I haven’t really heard any rumors about anyone signing him. He’d have a hard time doing better than 9-10 million through arb.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 1, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the most telling bit of the situation
In my opinion, those three names are being tossed around more often for a reason: they will move, whereas Wood won’t.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Dec 1, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to believe he's ahead of Hoffman and Fuentes.
Those guys have struggled lately, due to age and injury, or general ineffectiveness.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 1, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does't really matter...
If the Cubs aren’t going to offer him ~$8 million for one year, he’s looking at a situation in which he could sign for $3-4 million for one year with the Cubs or a one year, $8 million elsewhere or maybe a 2 year deal for $5-7 million (so $10-14 million total), and maybe incentives as well.
Just because he might not get a 2-3 year, $10+ million per year deal doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be potentially leaving lots of money on the table.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I scratch my bald head
everytime Wood is brought up. I just don’t get the Cubs take on this. He made 4.5M last year, saved 34 games, had only blister issues, and the Cubs have not even made an offer?
I truly believe if the Cubs would offer him a one year deal at 8M, and tell him that Marmol was going to close he would sign, Just my hunch.
This is just insane.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 11:51 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs don't WANT to offer him $8 million for one year...
That’s the point. It’s not that they don’t think they can match a longer term deal. It’s that they don’t want to pay $8 million to a reliever of any sort. They want to spend that $8 million on other positions, because they think Marmol can close and Gregg (at a lower cost) can set up. They may be wrong about that of course (I personally think getting Gregg was a bad idea). But given that rationale, not offering Wood a one-year deal makes perfect sense.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess what doesn't make sense to me is
3.5M raise for a loyal and effective closer. It will be interesting to see Greggs arbitration number is.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The raise isn't the issue...
the team’s overall payroll is. If the Cubs were at, say, $90-100 million in payroll, they might be more willing to give an $8-10 contract to Wood for another year. They aren’t at $90-100 million – they’re going to be over $130 million. That’s why he’s not getting the raise.
Gregg will probably get in the $4-5 million range, which means the Cubs save $3-4 million by replacing Wood with Gregg. For a team that is budget-conscious now, that could be a very relevant number. They can maybe get two players for the price of one, or three for the price of two.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood made something like $7.3M in 2008.
Most of his bonuses kicked in. An arbitrator would probably give him at least $8.5M.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does the 2 year window mean we're going back to the dark days after 2010?
I understand the 2 year window from the point of view that our key guys will be in their peak years for the next two seasons, and how that relates to their back loaded deals in those years as well, but what happens after that?
Will they keep pace, or reasonably close to it, with the big spenders? Or will they revert back to the mean or even worse?
I hope, at the very worst, they continue to be major players in the FA market, but shy away from such back loaded deals and spend more wisely. The organization has the means, clout and reputation to make enough revenue to continue to spend in the top 5, so I hope they continue to do so.
Of course, if we could get more young guys performing, then we wouldnt be in this pickle.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 1, 2008 12:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
We don't know the answer to the "dark days" question until ownership is resolved.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I suppose thats the worst part
the uncertainty….today was the deadline though, right? So hopefully Hendry will have some clarity before the winter meetings, or shortly thereafter.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 1, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keeping my fingers crossed..........
that Wood remains with the Cubs somehow, someway!
Plus……………..does the thought of banking on Marmol as the closer make anyone else nervous like it does me??
by plenz on Dec 1, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
KEEP KERRY.......
This move by Cubs mgt makes no since at all…We will see what the rest of the afternoon brings . Can HENDRY see the forest thru the trees on this one ????
by cubs north on Dec 1, 2008 12:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
More proof Woody is a Good Guy
I was over at loscubs.com reading an article on Marmol being the new closer
Mármol indicó que Wood le ayudó bastante durante toda la temporada y fue uno de los primeros en llamarlo para felicitarlo por su nuevo trabajo.
Pretty much says Woody helped me a lot during the season and he was one of the first guys to congratulate him.
Hopefully you guys are right and he comes back and Hendry is working on something good.
A ugly win is better than a pretty loss-Lou
by NIUcubbie on Dec 1, 2008 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Closers don't win playoff games in which you don't score more than your opponet.
just sayin’
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 12:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
However
you better have a good one to get you into the playoffs.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...we pretty much have for the past 2 years...look how that's worked out so far.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We had good starting pitching all year.
It sucked in the playoffs. Is getting another starter going to change that? If Peavy is acquired and does well in the postseason and the others don’t — well then, we lose the NLDS 3-1 instead of 3-0.
Getting another starting pitcher is not the solution.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did I say we needed starting pitching?
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How excited are you for the release of CIRCUS?!
BRITNEY’S BACK! Com’on, Chad: “Womanizer, Womanizer…”
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bought 5 copies for my mother.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wanna see my smiling face...
On the cover of the Rolling Stone.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. - Dave Barry
by zm1217 on Dec 1, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We keep gettin' richer,
but we can’t get our picture.
On the cover of the Rolling Stone.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 2, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So what are you saying?
Just disregard the bullpen?. How did that work out for the Phillies this year? They don’t make the playoffs without Lidge. The idea is to shorten the game, if your strong at the end you win ballgames.
The last two years in the playoffs what exactly went right? How about nothing.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm only saying that not resigning Wood is not the end of the world.
But finding some offense from the SS and RF position might be.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At least we'd win a game...
…grumble grumble…
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Signing Peavy only made sense (considering his price tag) if the Cubs didn’t re-sign Dempster.
Now, if the Cubs could get him for a song, then the trade makes sense. But it appears the Cubs are intent on adding starting pitching. That makes me wonder if management has concerns about the rotation’s health — especially Z’s.
by elgato on Dec 1, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant "trading"
for Peavy. Apologies.
by elgato on Dec 1, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Guess that depends on your definition of "song"
I guess if we really are looking at a 2-3 window, then dealing Vitters wouldnt be so bad, but if hes a center piece for the team once that window closes, then it makes less sense.
But for all the talk of the window, it would be hard to imagine the franchise just shutting it down and not spending. This team is more of a national franchise than ever before, thanks in part to recent success, so to not keep that rolling wouldnt make much sense. So perhaps losing Vitters wouldnt be the worst idea and could be considered a song?
Afterall, like Peter Gammons said, we’re talking about a 27 year old Cy Young winer
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 1, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it...
wouldnt be a problem either. really AL whats ur deal with not wanting a cy young winner??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 1, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
question
If the Cubs offer Wood arbitration, how long does he have to accept the offer? Sorry, if this has already been addressed.
by elgato on Dec 1, 2008 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He Has Until...
…next Sunday, 12/7/2008.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so ...
he has to accept BEFORE the winter meetings? I think that’s pretty significant.
The only way I see Kerry coming back is if the Cubs have enough money ($9 million or so) to hand him AFTER they’ve addressed their other needs. They probably won’t know if they’ve done that until after the meetings, and maybe not even by then. Seems like they’d need to know about Peavy, Marquis and a left-handed bat before they know how much money is left.
Here’s my next question: If Wood declines the Cubs arbitration offer, could they re-sign him before May 1?
Two other points: Rosenthal, quoting a major-league source, said Wood’s agent did not bring up the prospect of a one-year deal with the Cubs. That’s interesting because it doesn’t jibe with Wood’s public comments (it doesn’t totally contradict them, either).
Also, does anybody else really doubt that Kerry would come back as anything but the closer?
by elgato on Dec 1, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s my next question: If Wood declines the Cubs arbitration offer, could they re-sign him before May 1?
Yes.
Here’s my next question: If Wood declines the Cubs arbitration offer, could they re-sign him before May 1?
You mean, like… center field? :D
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 1, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
mutter.
that second Italics is supposed to be:
Also, does anybody else really doubt that Kerry would come back as anything but the closer?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 1, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Happy Monday, drew.
˙˙˙ʎןǝʇɐן ɐʎ oʇ pǝʞןɐʇ ʇ,uǝʌɐɥ ¿ʇı sǝoƃ ʍoɥ
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yo
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 1, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How did you do that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
˙punoɹɐ pɹɐoqʎəʞ ɹnoʎ dılɟ ʇsnɾ˙˙˙lɐ ʎsɐə s,ʇı
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How The Heck...
… did you do that?!?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't.
I have a laptop. My screen would flip over, too.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It also works to just sit on your head.
/ɯoɔ˙ʇxǝʇɐdıןɟ˙ʍʍʍ//:dʇʇɥ
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stand on your own head for a change, gimme some skin to call my own.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heh, no
I meant like a setup man.
One thing we’re not really addressing here is that the Cubs think Marmol would be a better closer than Wood, and that Wood doesn’t make sense as a $9 million eighth-inning guy.
I’m not saying I agree with that logic. But it’s possible that’s what the Cubs are thinking — sort of a Rivera/Wetteland situation.
by elgato on Dec 1, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think any closer is really worth $8 million...
I do think Marmol can do as good or better a job at closer than Wood. The mistake the Cubs are making, I believe, is removing Marmol from the fireman role. I think he won us more games than he would have at closer the last two years by bailing us out of bad situations.
Unless somebody REALLY steps up, I think we’re going to lose a lot more games in the 5th, 6th, and 7th innings than we did the last two years. But on the bright side, we may win one or two more games in the 9th than we did the past two years, because Marmol will be a bit better than Wood or Dempster was in converting saves.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather keep Marmol in the fireman role
I think that’s actually more important than the closer role, as enjoyable as it is to watch Kerry mow ’em down 95mph-style.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 1, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Best reliever in most crucial time…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 1, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see that logic
But I don’t think Hendry and Lou agree.
by elgato on Dec 1, 2008 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly they don't...
otherwise, they wouldn’t be moving Marmol out of his current role and either into the setup or closer (likely the closer) role. Doesn’t make them right – just that their opinion trumps anyone else’s.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, and maybe I'm wrong on this
If you keep Marmol as a set up man for 1 or 2 more years wouldn’t his price be less if you tried to negotiate a long term contract with him down the road?
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, because people still overvalue the save...
of course, intentionally doing that would be a bad-faith practice. If they honestly believe that the closer is the more important role, they should put him there regardless, as bad-faith negotiating is something Hendry avoids on principal.
If they’re moving Marmol, it’s because they think he’s more valuable as a closer.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad faith what?
This is not bad faith. Marmol is still getting experience and you could argue that he is more valuable in his role now. I don’t think he would feel the organization treated him badly if he set up Wood 1 or 2 more years.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Purposefully holding a guy back...
simply to minimize his salary demands down the road is most certainly bad faith. If they think he’s the best fit for the closer role, they should play him there.
The rationale you gave in this post (that he’s more valuable and needs more experience) is very different than the rationale you gave in the previous post (that it would bring his price down).
To clarify: if the Cubs feel Marmol is the best option for closer, then keeping him in middle relief to keep his price down is bad faith. That was what I was saying. If the Cubs think that there are other legitimate reasons to keep Marmol in middle relief, then that is fine. But making positional decisions based on minimizing future contracts is bad faith practice.
Either way, it doesn’t appear that the bad faith scenario is going to be an issue, as it seems that Marmol is going to move to closer with Wood gone.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah it´s becoming a non-issue
But anyway, I will ask you this, do you honestly believe that Marmol is going to be mad at the Cubs if he sets up Wood for 1 or 2 more years?
I don’t think so.
And the Cubs don’t need to come and say, hey we’re keeping you here to hold down your price. I’m pretty sure that other organizations have done this in the past.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is an entirely different question...
As I said, if there is a rationale OTHER than financial reasons, it’s not bad faith. In that scenario, I don’t think he’d complain.
My issue was with what seemed to be an implied suggestion to keep Marmol in the middle relief role simply to keep his salary down. If they did that, I guarantee that Marmol would be mad at the Cubs. But the scenario you present regarding Wood doesn’t fall into that category at all.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It´s the same really
You may have more incentive to keep Wood because that means Marmol continues to set-up which in turn means less dollars to pay in the future.
In the end you are making a business decision which has baseball sense while saving yourself some money.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's not the same...
One is a decision completely based on financial reasons. The other is based on the best interests (theoretically) of the team.
Keeping Wood (at $8 million in a tight financial time) specifically to keep Marmol’s price down makes little sense, as it hinders you now, when payroll is a big concern, whereas it doesn’t save you THAT much (Marmol will still get paid big when the time comes, just maybe a little less) and at a time that we will have more financial flexibility.
By the way, I was assuming you meant resigning Wood because it would be in the team’s best interest on the field. If that is the case, then the two scenarios are, as I said, not at all the same.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are going in circles
I think it makes sense on both fronts. I believe a team that is forward looking will see these things. Wood is a very good closer. Keeping Wood might save you a significant amount of money on Marmol down the road, and the difference could have been 4 million (not acquiring Gregg). I wonder how the Red Sox would have handled this whole thing given the same circumstances…
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We're going in circles because...
we’re talking about different things. You’re suggesting a scenario in which we get BOTH financial and on the field benefits. As I said, that’s not the scenario of bad faith practice.
I said that keeping Marmol in middle relief SOLELY for financial reasons would be bad faith. As I said, that’s different than the scenario with Wood, where we get a benefit on the field too.
Hopefully that clarifies things.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just their opinion
it is also a money thing. If money was no object Wood would be back and they would sign Fuentes from the left side.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is true, but
Getting such high upside on a 1 year basis is really a luxury that you should think long and hard before you let it pass. Yes, your payroll for this year might take a jump, but what really hurts are those long term deals. I agreed with letting Wood go if it was going to take 3 years or so. But for 1 year? I think the Cubs are making a bad decision.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't know if the Cubs are making a bad decision...
because you don’t know what the new bosses are going to say when they see the payroll. Hendry is working with the payroll he’s been allotted for 2009. If re-signing Wood (even to a one-year deal) precludes him from making the other moves he wants to make that he feels are more essential, then it is a bad move to sign Wood.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bad decision all around
What’s the difference between Gregg and Wood going to be?
Signing Wood to 1 year at 4 or so million more than Gregg (while keepin Ceda) makes all the sense in the world. And no, I don’t think those 4 million for 1 year really should limit signifcantly what you were going to do elsewhere.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When you are pushing the salary limit
yes that 4 million makes a difference. It is very likely that Hendry has a cap that he has to stay within.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand caps
But for a team that has spent some ridiculous money the last years it doesn’t make any sense to make these decisions based on 4 million. If it meant 4 million for the next 3 years, then you can make an argument. For 1 year though, it just seems stupid. Like I said before, getting this type of talent on a 1 year contract is really a luxury.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, it may very well make sense...
if there is a hard cap that Hendry has to adhere to. Hendry has likely been given a payroll limit. He likely has an idea of what he wants to do to fill the teams supposed needs. If paying Wood an extra $4 million prevents him from meeting those other needs (which he deems more important), then it absolutely makes sense to not pay the extra $4 million.
Just because you think that $4 million is not much on top of $130+ million doesn’t mean it’s not relevant.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 4:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We shall agree to disagree
Even with a hard cap I think Hendry could have and should have found a way to make it work. If he didn’t get Gregg and we were talking about an 8 million or more difference then perhaps. 4 million? No.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're ill-informed...
I am ill-informed as well, and could certainly be wrong.
IF Hendry has been given a hard cap and that that extra $4 million will prevent Hendry from meeting other more pressing needs (in Hendry’s opinion), then I don’t really see how signing Wood would make any sense to Hendry. I’m not sure what you disagree with there. If that’s the scenario, I’m right. If it’s not the case that Hendry is limited by the $4 million, then you’re right – paying the extra money may well make more sense. But to disagree that my scenario could be accurate seems ridiculous to me.
We can debate whether or not Hendry has been given a hard cap, but that’s something we simply don’t know.
by SouthernCub on Dec 1, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2 year window
Doesn’t adding Peavy help extend the window? He’s only 27..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 1, 2008 3:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Score
Score reported at 330 Cubs will not offer Wood arbitration.
MaIne South Hawks 2008 Class 8a Champs!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 1, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Losing Wood was bad enough
But not getting any compensation really sucks big time. Since the Cubs are not offering Howry arbitration either, all they need to do now is sign a type A and then can relax while the first round of the draft passes by.
Damn.
by Luis on Dec 1, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Were They Speculating This...
… or is it fact?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kaplan just said the same thing in his 4PM report
FWIW
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not official
Interesting they’ve made Howry and Ward official so wonderif something else is going on
MaIne South Hawks 2008 Class 8a Champs!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 1, 2008 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers offering arbitration to
Sabathia, Sheets and Shouse. No surprise that they are passing on Gagne.
If they lose those guys that is 5 additional picks in the upcoming draft.
by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 3:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not official
But Kaplan reported it as well at 400 on WGN.
Wonder if possibly they are trying to work a deal?
MaIne South Hawks 2008 Class 8a Champs!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 1, 2008 4:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I thought the negotiation window ended if arbitration wasn't offered
That may have changed.
My best guess is, Wood is gone.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant
I meant they have til 11 tonight our time. Maybe they’re trying to work out a deal.
MaIne South Hawks 2008 Class 8a Champs!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 1, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I knew what you meant
But I haven’t really seen any signs of Wood returning other than people speculating and/or hoping here.
I’d love to see him back, but I don’t think it’s going to happen.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just thinking
I was just thinking they’ve announced the others but not Wood.
MaIne South Hawks 2008 Class 8a Champs!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 1, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I hope you're right
I would be pleasantly surprised.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That Has Changed...
… I think they have up until May 1st now.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't sound right
It used to be that if you didn’t offer arb., that you lost rights until May 1.
Why would the deadline now be extended until May 1? There shouldn’t be any deadline at all for continuing to negotiate if it went into the next season. The main point of that, I think, was to prevent teams from undercutting salaries too much.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Doing This From Memory...
…which is always an issue! :-|
Maybe what it is is that the May 1st deadline was relinquished?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be
If so, then there is a better chance of some things happening —
— Wood not finding offers to his liking and asking Hendry for a one-year, incentive laden deal.
— The sale progressing and prospective owners giving the go ahead for a higher payroll.
I don’t think this is how it will play out, though. I do think that we don’t know the whole story yet and might not for a long time, if ever.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If arbitration isn't offered
then the player can not re-sign with the same team until May 31st. It was moved from May 1st a few years ago.
by ScottT on Dec 1, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is correct.
Now, that’s not an official site, but I believe those are the current rules.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How About This Unofficial Site?
By December 1st, each Major League team must decide whether to offer salary arbitration to their former players who have filed for free agency. A club not offering arbitration may continue to negotiate with the player but does not receive compensation if he signs with another club.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This Looks Official
Free Agency
1. Eliminate December 7, December 19, January 8 and May 1 deadlines for free agents.
2. Tender Date – December 12
3. Eliminate right to demand a trade for all new multi-year contracts.
By this, it looks as if though the Cubs and Kerry can continue to negotiate with one another if (1) The Cubs do not offer arbitration or (2) The Cubs offer, but Kerry declines.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kaplan Said...
…that “it appears that the Cubs will not offer arbitration to Kerry Wood”.
That does not mean that the Cubs will not offer arbitration to Kerry Wood…
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ibanez offered arb by Seattle.
So, if he takes them up on it, he stays there and Lou’s obsession must go elsewhere.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 5:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He won't
but he would now cost us our first round pick.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 1, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
So did Ty Griffin, Earl Cunningham, Brooks Kieschnick, Ryan Harvey, Mark Pawelek, Bobby Brownlie, Ben Christansen, Jayson Peterson, Jon Ratliff, Derek Wallace, Lance Dickson…et.al…but I digress. I’m pretty sure I’d do a deal of Ibanez straight up for all of the above.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 1, 2008 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well i think the interest of the cubs, phils, and mets
for a multi-year deal will prevent that
by philadelphiacub on Dec 1, 2008 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Abreu not offered by the yanks
If Ibanez isn’t available, Abreu may be the target for RF.
by uwbadger on Dec 1, 2008 5:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think I'd rather have Abreu, anyway
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Would You Be Willing...
… to do a Luke Scott/DeRo platoon in right, Fontenot/DeRo platoon at 2nd, Fontenot/Theriot platoon at SS, and Fukudome/RJ platoon in center?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a whole lot of platooning . . .
I’m ok with DeRo moving around, and I like the thought of having depth.
Truth be told, I think Lou’s obsession with the LH slugger is his white whale. If I was suddenly named GM, my #1 target would be a true leadoff hitter. If a SS or RF couldn’t be found that fit that bill, I’d go after Roberts — and try DeRo at short.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Wonder...
… if Roberts is now coming out of his “prime”?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But he’d still be better than Soriano at #1
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For the 100th time,
why are you proposing shifting DeRo back and forth between 2B and RF to create a platoon for the LHB Mike Fontenot and the LHB Luke Scott???
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 1, 2008 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly, but
I view Abreu as the lesser of two mistakes
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Abreu
Sign Abreu now. Period.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 1, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't
I’m busy trying to trade for Roberts, as I posted above ;-)
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Anything official yet?
I thought today meant no negotiations til May 1st or is the door closed?
MaIne South Hawks 2008 Class 8a Champs!
by cubstoseriesby100 on Dec 1, 2008 6:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
SUN TIMES:
The Cubs on Monday declined to offer salary arbitration to free-agent closer Kerry Wood, avoiding the possibility that Wood might return for the 2009 season by accepting an offer.
Wood and reliever Bob Howry are ‘’Type A’’ free agents, meaning the Cubs would have been eligible to receive two compensatory draft picks by offering arbitration. The club also declined to offer Howry arbitration.
by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 7:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Echoed by Muskat on Cubs.com
here, FWIW.
by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is an ugly turn for the Cubs.
Now the questions need to be answered – why couldn’t the Cubs find a way to bring Kerry Wood back? Would he really have cost significantly more than Kevin Gregg? Is there something else going on?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it either.
Now, as the cubs.com article says:
Just because the Cubs made this decision does not mean they cannot continue to negotiate with Wood, who has spent his entire career with the team, or the others. In his first season as the Cubs closer, Wood saved 34 games and posted a 3.26 ERA.
So who knows where this is going to go? The market for closers doesn’t seem real busy.
If he’s not signed by the Cubs or someone else by the time of the convention, I suspect Lou and Jim are going to get some real tough questions.
Wear your Wood jersey or T-shirt.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It Is As Simple As Hendry Said...
… he has higher priorities to fill right now. If those are filled, and filled quickly, say, by the end of the year/2 weeks into the new year, he can assess how much more he can spend.
Kerry’s coming back, folks.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right.
But they could have still gotten the picks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
Originally, it was “We can’t give Kerry the multi-year deal he deserves.” Now it’s “And we’re not even willing to risk that he’d come back on a one year deal a few million more than we’re paying Kevin Gregg.”
It does not pass the smell test.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it might actually be
“We think his rotator cuff is about to explode, but we’re not telling anyone that because we want him to get paid.”
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
::clap:: ::clap:: ngo!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 1, 2008 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That could be.
However, that requires the Cubs covering up that fact, willing to take a PR hit, just so Kerry can get another contract. Maybe, but it doesn’t seem likely to me.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How does it benefit the Cubs to come out and say it?
There’s no proof, Wood denies it and it scares other teams off. That would be a PR hit, too, woudn’t it?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2008 10:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll make a bet that I hope I lose
$5 to Project 3000 says you’re wrong — want to bet?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, something else is going on....
I find it hard to believe tat Hendry suddenly decided that Wood was too high of an injury risk, especially for a one year deal.
So who doesn’t want Wood back and why?
I would say it falls squarely on Pinella. I can’t picture Hendry just cutting ties with Wood on his own.
Oh well, way to go Cubs! Now go out and find that all important experienced relief pitcher that you just let walk. If we were able to receive compensation picks then we should have offered arbitration on that alone. If the latter is the case then the Manager is being given way too much input here.
by DudeVf11 on Dec 2, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The other possibility is Wood has a serious injury.
If that’s the case then just come out with it and get surgery. Other teams will look at this and say either Pinella doesn’t like Wood or he’s hurt. He’ll probably have to convince teams of his health.
by DudeVf11 on Dec 2, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
at least try to get the picks
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Dec 1, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it either.
Here’s a guy who had his healthiest year in a long time, and really did well in a new role. Barring injury (I know that’s a big “if” with Kerry), he’d be better this year. Plus with all the loyalty he’s shown the Cubs (and yes, I know they’ve shown him some serious loyalty as well), you’d think he’d get some in return.
Wherever you end up Kerry, we’ll love you! Please, though, don’t go to the Cards or the Brewers.
IF IT TAKES FOREVER!!
by Cubfansince1957 on Dec 1, 2008 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't believe this
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 1, 2008 7:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The Muskrat article...
…does not indicate a source. Who is this information coming from???
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 1, 2008 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, pardon my french
but Hendry really fucked up here
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Dec 1, 2008 8:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
*****&*#&$P(q_#()#*$()-908Q8340438093840-)(*)@*)*(@*(******************
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 1, 2008 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Not Over Yet...
… assume the following scenario between two people who are really tight.
Hendry says that he can only afford 1 year, 2 years tops, but can only offer $5M guaranteed. Wood’s agent says we think we can get 4, 3 years bottoms for $10M guaranteed. Hendry says, ok, go for it, and this time, we will give you all you need to maximize your shot at getting a deal. That means publicly saying that we’re prepared to move on. That means not providing any top tier (i.e., top 15 teams in baseball last year) team an excuse of giving up their draft picks. That means, giving everything to Kerry to try and get that deal that he thinks he can get – kinda like what Hendry said in his press conference. “The Cubs are prepared to move on”.
If Kerry can get it, and it is weighed higher than the non-tangible value that he has by staying in Chicago, well, adios Kerry. If he can’t, Hendry will fall back, without ego, to offering Kerry that $5M, incentive-laden deal.
Personally, I think Kerry signs with the Cubs some time in late January. We will all take him back with open arms.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This is an interesting and plausible scenario.
We’ll see if it plays out. It’d play out better if they announced his signing at the convention.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If The Cubs Can Complete...
… that fantasy deal by dealing Pie, Marshall, Marquis, Vitters, Cedeno, a lower level prospect and $2M cash for Peavy and Luke Scott/Randy Winn, perhaps we’re done?
… that combined with Fukudome’s “Americanized workout” updates showing promise that he will be more like the Fukudome that we thought we were getting (i.e., batting 5th)?
… then perhaps Hendry can look at my spreadsheet and see he has enough to sign Wood by the convention?
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wood must really want to come back and Lou////Hendry must really not want him back
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Dec 1, 2008 8:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That's The Other Explanation...
… these moves can constitute giving Kerry full control of his next contract – a right that he has earned by being in the league longer than 6 years and “injury free”.
… these moves can also be construed as the Cubs severing all ties and preventing any posibility of him coming back.
Either avenue can still end with #34 in Cubbie blue. Let’s see if anyone we acquire dares take his number!
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one will...
… at least not for a while.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't understand why people are so angry
On more than one occasion, on this very site, we have talked about overpaying for bullpen help. $9-10 million for a questionable Wood is not a wise investment. I am OK with what we have on the right hand side of the rubber, but if we do not get a Vet Lefty, this has been a wasted season for the bullpen.
Yes, he was the face of the franchise. Yes, he was a wonderful teammate and leader. He is a 30ish, injury prone relief pitcher, who wants more money than we have for a reliever.
Good bye and good luck Kerry.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Dec 1, 2008 8:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The situation is just extremely FUBAR though
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
by Chanman25 on Dec 1, 2008 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but......
the money is not there. I agree that it is pretty odd that Kerry was willing to take pretty much whatever we offered just to stay a Cub, and we still didn’t offer anything. I don’t want to pay a guy just because everyone likes him and wants to keep him around. He had 33 saves, and that was great, but Marmol is our closeer now for $448,000. I will take that for now.
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Dec 1, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I won't, because...
… who’s the setup guy who is going to put out the fires in the 8th inning? You know, the ones Marmol put out so well?
I think you see the problem here.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Possible scenarios:
1. The Cubs don’t want Wood back. Cut bait and run. Plausible given the payroll numbers bouncing around.
2. Initram’s idea: Cubs want Wood for less money than what Wood will settle for at this point. Hendry holds out, Wood shops around and either gets his deal (boo!) or comes back for what Hendry is willing to pay. Possible, but unlikely (why not offer arb and get the picks?).
3. Wood has quietly told Hendry he wants to shop around for a month or two. Similar to 2, but initated by Kerry instead of the front office. I don’t see this being the case, but list it for the sake of thoroughness (again, offer arb for picks!).
4. Someone involved with this issue has gone bat-crap crazy. Wouldn’t be the first time.
5. There’s something we’re not being told. Kerry converted to Scientology and is moving in with Tom & Katie, Hendry suddenly developed a fear of people with last names containing a ‘W,’ Kerry dented Lou’s Chevy in the parking lot, etc. (probably a better reason, but you get my point). I actually favor this idea, given the lack of comment from people on both sides of this issue.
by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 8:40 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Well outlined, and rec'd.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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