Cubs Don't Offer Wood Arbitration
by northpaw22k on Dec 1, 2008 8:02 PM CST
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PrintBy Tim Dierkes [December 1 at 7:55pm CST]According to MLB.com's Carrie Muskat, the Cubs declined to offer arbitration to Type A free agents Kerry Wood and Bob Howry. The Cubs decided they could not take on the financial risk of Wood accepting, as they're tight on payroll. Trading him might've been difficult, as he would've been a 10-and-5 player. It seems that payroll forced the Cubs to make the questionable baseball decision to pass on a one-year deal for Wood.
From MLBTradeRumors.com
Its a sad day, like everyone else, its just mind boggling.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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i understand this decision....
they must have felt he would have accepted and couldnt risk it….
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
What was there to risk?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:43 PM CST up reply actions
Well it's not really a risk, it's a certainty
that the payroll will be increased by 7-10 milion dollars. Hendry doesnt think we can afford Wood and make another acquistion i.e. Peavy, Furcal, Ibanez or whoever he’s looking at
His previous screwups caused this new screwup.
Hendry overpaid for Soriano, overpaid by about 100% for Fukudome, overpaid for Lee, massively overpaid for Marquis, backloaded everyone’s contracts, and, as a result of those stupid decisions, is now forced to make another stupid decision.
In other news, Carrie Muskat continues her amazing streak of being wrong. Seriously, has anyone in the history of facts and the written word been more wrong more often?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Hope you can
Look really frumpy and disheveled, because that is another requirement. And one she excels at.
Completley agree
Like I said a little further down in the post, Hendry is known as a “player’s GM”. He is good at dealing with people which is obvioulsy a great trait but his a lousy buisness man. All of the long backloaded contracts are starting to catch up.
i agree
i wanted the picks more than wood…
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
I don't get this at all.
You have a closer, who was one of the better ones in the league, who did everything he was asked to do, and was a standup, first-class man to have in your clubhouse.
Why would you not want such a man on your team, regardless of the price?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
maybe this has to do with the bids....
becuase it is extremely obvious that we could not afford him even on a one year deal….
absurd.. i am kind of upset. but as i posted elsewhere this is good for kerry.. now that other teams dont have to worry about losing a pick he is the most attractive closer… go get that paper kerry
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
Wouldn't be surprised...
…if that is the case. This “firm” hold on payroll seems to have come about the same time final bids were due from prospective buyers.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Perhaps the buyer could sign Wood next season
If Wood takes a one-year deal somewhere it might signal that he’s waiting for a new owner to come in and bring him back. It’s a stretch, but we can hope.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 2, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Possible.
We should know more after the winter meetings are over; if he hasn’t signed by then maybe it’s a sign that the market for closers isn’t as expensive as had been predicted.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Besides the big boys...
…I don’t think the market for most FA’s will be as high as it has been in the past. I really think this economy has the owners scared, and they should be.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I agree.
We should get a clue as to the Cubs’ payroll intentions again, when ticket prices are revealed. It should be just about time for season ticket holders to get invoices.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Exactly....
I’m pretty much baffled.
Gregg is going to pull a ‘Bob Howry’, Ceda is going to pull a Ricky Nalasco and Wood is going to have a stellar year closing out ballgames, JUST LIKE HE DID FOR US LAST YEAR.
Putting the whole ‘Kerry Wood not going to be in a Cubs uniform’ deal aside….. we don’t even get the draft picks as a little compensation.
Ridiculous.
Their decision is not "Ridiculous"
it’s just a different approach that you’d have liked the team to take. There is a difference IMHO
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
It looks like...
…the hammer has gone down on the payroll. For all we know, this may even be driven by prospective owners as they view all the backloaded deals/no trades clauses etc., and they are saying; “slow it down”.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I guess the hammer missed Ryan Dempster
There is a cap. It might even be higher than last year.
What it means is that Hendry has to make decisions.
Given a choice...
…I will shore up the starting rotation first and foremost, and I think this was a priority for Hendry.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
He's not going to do that, either.
Unless you count re-signing Dempster. I call that “treading water” at best, and more likely, “overpaying for a aging, proven mediocrity after a career year that is unlikely to be repeated.”
This is a sad, sad day to be a Cub fan. Hendry’s wild spending spree cost us Kerry Wood, and it didn’t even bring a legitimate superstar to the team!
I hope we all enjoy 2 more years of watching Kosuke Fukudome twirling around, or Derrek Lee stoically walking back to the dugout after pounding another outside slider into a 6-4-3.
Or Kevin Gregg confusedly adjusting his goggles after watching another moonshot HR.
I have to hand it to Hendry – for all of the “proven closers” the Cubs have brought in over the years, this is the first time we got in on the ground floor and acquired the “proven closer” after he lost his closing role.
Typically, we acquire the guy right before he loses the job. (Alfonseca, Aguilera, Smith, Rojas, Jones, Beck, and on and on.)
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Funny take on Gregg.
But I honestly can’t see how Hendry gets blamed for losing a player who says he’d do anything to play for the Cubs. No, the Cubs chose not to sign Wood for other reasons, be they injury or personality.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
His track record on "decisions" is pretty horrible.
In his tenure as GM, Hendry has consistently sat out of the bidding on legitimate superstars (Beltran, Tejada, etc.), and then overcorrected and made massive, paradigm-shifting offers to lesser stars such as Lee and Soriano.
His MO is to zero in on some slightly-above-average player, outbid the league by 20% at the earliest possible time, and get the guy locked up.
Some of those guys are productive, the majority are not. None of them are truly difference makers. The net result is a team full of slightly-above-average players who fold in high-pressure situations.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
You think Soriano...
Was a considered a lesser star when the Cubs signed him? That’s seems like an awful lot of revisionist history guided by 20/20 hindsight. (Though your whole take does to me).
The guy was considered one of the few 5 tool players. Not to mention that Soriano was coming off a season where he hit 46HRs, had 41SBs, a fairly respectible average with no protection, and had his highest career OBS and OPS, and Walks earned). And he played in all be 3 games that year.
Anyway, I’d find your whole take a lot more plausible if you were railing against it all last year when the Cubs had the best record in the NL. (Please correct me if you did, but I don’t remember seeing it).
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Let's also not forget that Soriano
has only been a disappointment for 6 post-season games and to those who wanted him to be a different kind of lead-off hitter than he always had been.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
It's been a whole lot more postseason games than that.
Have you seen Soriano’s record in the postseason as a Yankee?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, absolutely. And so did everyone else.
Not lesser as in “a minor star” like Luke Scott or Aubrey Huff or someone. But certainly “lesser” in that he was, and is, not in the class of the truly elite superstars such as Alex Rodriguez or Manny Ramirez.
Soriano was, without question, the top FA in his class. But no one is confusing him with Carlos Beltran. His feast-or-famine, free swinging ways were very, very well documented, and discussed to death on this website (and others) at the time of the acquisition.
The general consensus around here was that Soriano had done much better in his year in Washington in taking pitches, but that his career indicated that he was a big hit-or-miss hitter, and that while he’d be infinitely more valuable as a 2B, he was such a hack at that position that he was going to have to make it as an OF — a CF, we all hoped, because his “above-averageness” faded if you had to put him in a corner OF position.
Ultimately, what else could we say, other than “We got Soriano! Go Cubs!”? Under the circumstances, he was the big fish in that FA class. But he definitely came with a whole heck of a lot more question marks than, say, a Carlos Beltran would have.
As we all now know, Soriano is one of the best mistake hitters in the game. If you challenge him with a first-ball fastball to start a game, there’s a decent chance it’s leaving the yard. But he simply cannot recognize or hit a good breaking ball. Which means that he sees a steady diet of them from good pitchers…. which explains his Fukudomesque postseason batting average.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Few points...
For one, if I remember correctly Beltran and Soriano weren’t even part of the same FA class, so it wasn’t a choice between signing Beltran or signing Soriano. We signed Soriano in November of ’06 (in ’05 he was under arbitration). Beltran signed with the Mets around January of ’05 I think. So are you complaining about Hendry not signing Beltran the previous year, when the dynamics of the payroll and team needs were completely different? Or what exactly is your argument about Beltran?
Anyway, your “lesser star” argument also seems strange to me. I’m willing to concede that Soriano isn’t in the class of ARod, or Pujols, or maybe Manny. So what. Beltran isn’t either. But when you break down their stats, Soriano and Beltran are essentially in the same class of players. (Soriano hits more HRs and has more SBs [or did until he came to the Cubs and hurt his hamstring]; Beltran usually has a higher OBP; they have approximately equal avg.). Even on Baseball Prospectus, despite a significant diffference in VORP last year, they’re still very similar.
Here’s Soriano’s PECOTA card: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/soriaal01.php
Here’s Beltran’s: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/beltrca01.php
You’ll notice the only major difference presently is Walks and Ks. (Important certainly, but other factors are about equal). However, since we’re analyzing them at the time of their signings, note that Soriano’s VORP in 2005 was 38, 2006 was 48 (after which the Cubs signed him), and 2007 (first year with Cubs) was 42.
Beltran’s VORP in 2005 was 18, his first year with the Mets (He went nuts the next two years). I don’t know his VORP the year before his contract with the Mets unfortunately.
Anyway, the point being that I’m comfortable saying that Beltran is a better player. But it’s a bit much to argue that he is in a whole separate class from Soriano (let alone that Beltran is in the class of ARod). Their statistics just don’t bear that out.
Two last points: If you believe people like Bill James, the “feast or famine” thing is largely irrelevent (as is the idea of “consistency” and “clutch hitting”).
And your whole argument about hitting in the post-season seems to omit the essential point that you have to GET to the post-season first. Without Soriano, it would’ve been a whole lot tougher to get to October at all, particularly in 07.
Anyway, I suppose the larger point is that your analysis totally ignores the complexities of why people sign players when they do. The number of variables in play are enormous This isn’t fantasy baseball where you really just pick between Beltran and Soriano solely based off stats. And even if it was, you can make a lot of arguments for why at the time of Soriano’s signing in ‘06, and Beltran’s signing in ’05, they were (and maybe are) more or less equal.
Btw…Maybe Soriano just needs that Ocular Enhancer Machine that Beltran got in his contract in ‘05, and those curveballs wouldn’t be a problem. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Ridiculous.
Point by point.
Yes, Beltran was signed in a previous year. He was desperately needed by the Cubs at that time, and he had basically led his 2004 Astros to overtake the juggernaut Cubs singlehandedly. (He put up a OPS over .900 for 90 games, and then an OPS around 1.000 in the playoffs.)
Everyone in town was screaming for Hendry to sign him, as the Cubs desperately needed a CF — everyone knew that Patterson was not the answer. Beltran’s agent (Boras) was begging for an offer. We declined to offer, and he signed with the Mets, where, as you note, he has gone nuts the last three years after being injured in 2005 and having and outlier of a poor season.
Two years later, the Cubs still desperately needed a CF, and Hendry signed Soriano to fill that role, for almost exactly the same money given to Beltran by the Mets —
despite the fact that Soriano had never played CF and Beltran was a GG CF —,
despite the fact that Soriano was 31 at the beginning of the 7-year deal and Beltran was only 28 —
and despite the fact that Beltran had put up OPS+ over 130 for three straight years leading up to the contract, while Soriano had only 1 season with an OPS+ over 130, and had two seasons less than 110 in his three leading up to the contract.
The Mets’ deal with Beltran was obviously great at the time of signing. This is not 20/20 hindsight — there was almost 100% unanimity on this board that Beltran should have been signed by us, even for more money, at the time.
The Cubs deal with Soriano was obviously a stretch at the time of signing, and it got worse when he flopped as a CF, completely stopped running, and when it was revealed that he was a guess/mistake hitter with very little ability to hit legitimate pitching. I shudder to think of what will happen if Soriano’s bat-speed tanks at age 37 or 38.
By sitting out of the bidding for the truly great free agents for several years, and then trying to overcorrect by overpaying and trying to buy every free agent in the 2006-07 offseason, Hendry has left the Cubs hamstrung for cash and devoid of any superstar talent.
You or I could have done a better job.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 4:51 PM CST up reply actions
You’re changing the goalposts here. You post here is arguing that Beltran is a great player who the Cubs should have signed in ‘05. Fine. I’m not arguing that that’s incorrect.
But our original exchange centered on two ideas: 1) That Beltran is/was significantly better overall player a degree that he is/was obviously on another plane of stardom than Soriano, and 2)That it was a mistake for the Cubs to invest in Soriano. Your reply isn’t addressing those questions.
On the first point, I’ve already stated that Beltran is a great player and I too had wanted the Cubs to sign him. I think it was a mistake that we didn’t. But purely on stats, at the time of each respective signing, there was little statistically to distinguish the two players. You correctly note that in OPS+ there was a difference. I had already argued that was the case. But Soriano exceeded Beltran in other catagories. As I argued—and as I think baseball prospectus backs up—when you take the players in totality, they more or less were equivalent. Beltran wasn’t on some higher plane of stardom (and he still isn’t, I don’t think).
But again, the broader point is that it was never an either/or situation. We didn’t NOT sign Beltran so we could sign Soriano. They were two separate events. It was a mistake NOT to sign Beltran. But that doesn’t mean it was therefore a mistake to sign Soriano. You don’t judge Soriano’s signing based upon the hypothetical of “if we could have Beltran instead.” Beltran wasn’t available, and is therefore irrelevant to how wise signing Sori was.
Based on the evidence available, I think it made sense to sign him (again, because his numbers were very similar to the Beltran, whom we passed on the previous year). And I still think that Soriano’s performance has justified the signing, whether or not he’s struggled in the postseason. He never was going to be a center-fielder, but do you really think we signed him for his defensive prowess?
Btw, fwiw there was some question at the time about how wise it was for Beltran to sign with the Mets, especially because he had atrocious career numbers at Shea, and because playing in the Juice Box tends to distort offensive numbers in a way that playing in, say, RFK stadium doesn’t.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
Sample sizes?
Beltran’s career numbers in Shea were probably 6 games. He only played 45 or so in the Juice Box in his entire career prior to the Mets deal, too.
Beltran was a Royal. And his average-year stats were better than Soriano’s career year stats.
I know that the organizational philosophy was different in 2004-5 than it was in 2006. I’m saying that the previous philosophy was stupidly stingy, and the 2006 philosophy was a halfassed attempt to make up for their prior sins, a strategy which, by necessity, required going out and getting what was available (Soriano) instead of investing those gigantic amounts of dollars in a player who would have helped the team exponentially more.
And finally, yes, Soriano was signed in part because we’d hoped he would be a CF. Otherwise, we could have gotten Carlos Lee for less money and more production as a corner OF.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
McPhail was still in charge when Beltran was a free agent
The organizational philosophy was different
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Good point!
That’s an even stronger point about why the whole argument about Beltran is silly.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
Soriano
isn’t as good as Manny, A-Rod, Pujols…….we know that. Soriano, i believe, is a better player than Beltran.
As far as i know Soriano has only lost one game for us, Washington when he dropped the fly ball in the 9th. On the other hand he also single-handily outscored the Padres or almost did one series if I’m not mistaken. He also once his 3 or 4 straight lead off HR. He is a streaky hitter who, when on, can carry a team. I just can’t see Beltran, removed from his Astros run, doing that.
Calling out Soriano for his playoff performance when talking about Beltran is wrong. If I’m not mistaken Beltran is a member of the Mets who collapsed last year and haven’t made the playoffs for two straight years. Soriano is a member of the Cubs who led the NL in wins and have made the playoffs for two straight years. Also you can’t single Soriano out for his performance in the playoffs, the whole team stunk it up not just him.
Soriano isn't better than Beltran
Take a look at Al’s career stats then look at Carlos
They are remarkably close for this comparison. Beltran’s edge in a lot of offensive categories can be attributed to more AB’s, but the averages are about the same. Beltran has a better OBP and Soriano has a better SLG — Carlos wins on OPS. That’s on offense — defensively, Beltran is head and shoulders above Soriano — similar arms, but Beltran has much more range and sure hands.
And the Cubs-Mets comparison isn’t valid:
By that logic, Lonnie Smith was a better player than Ernie Banks, since Smith was on several WS teams and Banks never made the post-season. An individual player’s talent is not dependent on the other 24 around him.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
It's because he made such bad $$ decisions in prior years.
Hendry has overspent massively on medicore to above-average players. If Lee, Soriano, Marquis, and Fukudome were earning a salary that was even remotely correlated with their production level, the Cubs would have been able to keep Wood with no problems.
Hendry caused this, and he deserves all the criticism he’s going to face when this house of cards collapses.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
It's too early IMHO
to say they overspent on Fukudome’s contract…
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
The deal is 25% over.
If he doesn’t hit in 2009, it will be half over. At that point can we say that we overspent?
I can say with absolute certainty that they overspent by about $12M in 2008. I seriously doubt that Fukudome is going to give the Cubs $48M worth of production over the next three seasons.
He was the worst hitting position player in baseball in the second half, and one of the worst hitting non-pitchers that I have ever seen.
Are you seriously contending that he’s going to suddenly turn into a juggernaut and produce at a $16M/year level going forward?
I assume that he’ll improve, but I think that we can safely assume that the Cubs massively overpaid on this one.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
But what makes it even more foolish is that the player would likely have accepted a discounted contract to begin with
AND he may have accepted arbitration which would limit the team’s exposure to one year. AND if he rejects arbitration we et compensated? I think this was a no-brainer and to top it off our brainless decision maker is quoted abut how he needs experienced relief pitcher.
Maybe Pinella will be right and Wood will perform poorly in 2009 but it’s the wrong decision. The GM has to set the tone here because Wood can help this club and he’s been one damn fierce competitor for this team and its fans. If i am choosing between Pinella and players like Wood then I would have canned Pinella the day after the season ended if that’s what it comes to.
Maybe Pinella will be right, but to me it underscores that we have a GM ho does not set the tone for this club. We need a lot of luck to win this way.
Woody
If he and Hendry are that good of friends, why would they not just offer arb and he would guarantee them he wouldn’t accept? This is dumb. Take the f’in draft pick Jimmy.
thats what i was surprised about
i was pretty sure there would be a gentlemans agreement that wood would not accept if offered so we could get the picks.. appearently we could not get that assurance
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
I'm as mystified as the rest of you.
It makes no sense.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
were you under the impression that it was a given we would at least offer??
for a team weak in the minors it makes no sense not to offer unless our finances are that tight…
"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"
Yes, I thought there would be an offer.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
It wouldn't make sense
for Wood to agree to such an agreement, as it limits his options and lowers his value to other teams, since they’d have to give up draft picks ANd a multi-year deal to get him.
Maybe the gentleman’s agreement was that they wouldn’t offer him arbitration as a thank you for his years of service.
I still think it sucks.
DEJESUS!!!
if he wanted to come back
he wouldn’t mind limiting his options, i’m guessing based on everything kerry’s said he wants to come back so badly that he’d accept no matter what and Hendry knows that and they just don’t want him….
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Sure, but
the sugestion was if Wood is leaving anyway, offer him arbitration and have him agree not to accept it as a favor to Hendry. If he isn’t planning on staying, he wouldn’t agree to such a deal, because it would limit his options.
DEJESUS!!!
right
my point is: it’s not that he’s “leaving anyway”
he doesn’t want to leave, he’s being forced out
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
Gentleman's agreement
It isn’t that I think Wood owes the Cubs anything or vice versa, but If I were Wood and Hendry even suggested such a Gentleman’s agreement I would spit in his face.
While being offered arbitration wouldn’t prevent him from getting a multiyear deal, it may impact which teams would sign him and for how much. So, basically, Hendry would be asking Wood to make a sacrifice, in terms of his finances (potential) and his new teams talent (definite)…
That sounds swell from a Cubs perspective but pretty crappy otherwise.
Eamus Ursuli!
What exactly is Hendry's job again?
Oh, yeah, looking out for the interests of the Cubs. Wood’s a great guy, but Hendry’s not going to hamstring the team for one guy. (At least I hope not.)
by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And Wood's best interest...
is looking out for Wood. As it should be.
Never forget this is a business.
At some point, I hope his agent reminded him that there are flights to Chicago all the time to visit his wife’s family.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
That is fine
If Hendry believes the Cubs are better off without Wood and his Salary, that is his job, we can disagree, but in the end it is obviously his call.
My point is that I don’t believe that such a Gentleman’s agreement would ever happen, in part because I do believe in Hendry’s decency as a human being.
Eamus Ursuli!
How does Wood on a one year deal hamstring the team?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
what happened to that $12 million dollar RF
that you thought had a pretty good season?
oh right… he’s now a platoon CF
the argument that we need a RF is as strong as the argument that we need a closer. Both are things we have capable people in place for if we chose
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
A few things
1) Wood said he’d do “anything” to return. I find it hard to believe “anything” does not include playing in 2008 for the same price as Gregg.
2) Let’s say Wood would only play for 8 M. Then we could still have used Ceda to get a Hermida type RF instead of Gregg and this still wouldn’t be a problem.
3) Lou’s said he wants to get another veteran reliever anyway. Unless we’re talking a washed-up type who’ll come for 1 M or so, we’re still planning on spending more in the ’pen.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
ooh... the green rec'd box appears...
(it’s like the first time people saw fire, or the wheel) it’s mesmerizing.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
To answer this question and your question above...
…if he accepts arb, and negotiations fall apart for whatever reason, the Cubs could be sacked with $9-10M in salary dollars for Wood next year, limiting their options to address their other areas of priority.
"Just win tonight" - derv
That's not a terrible scenario.
Kerry Wood on a 1-year deal in the 9-10M range is an incredibly move-able contract.
Of course, you wouldn’t want to move the contract, because he’s an incredibly valuable player.
On the other hand, as we’ve just learned, Lee and Fukudome’s contracts are total albatrosses, which not only leave us with offensive ciphers at 2 very important offensive positions, but also leave us unable to retain our very-much-above-average closer, who was also the face of the franchise.
This is the equivalent of the late 1980’s Twins losing Kirby Puckett because they overpaid for Tim Teufel and Tim Laudner. Or the Brewers letting Braun walk because they’d overpaid for Gagne and Corey Koskie.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Ummm no.....
I understand your point but comparing Lee to Tim Teufel and Corey Koskie doesn’t exactly make your point.
OK, I'll spell it out.
“Losing Kerry Wood because we overpaid for Jason Marquis and Kosuke Fukudome is is the equivalent of the late 1980’s Twins losing Kirby Puckett because they overpaid for Tim Teufel and Tim Laudner. Or the Brewers letting Braun walk because they’d overpaid for Gagne and Corey Koskie.”
And for the record, Derrek Lee and Corey Koskie had identical OPS+ in 2008.
I think that we’d all be ecstatic if D-Lee could somehow replicate Koskie’s 2001 or 2003 season in 2009. But I don’t think he has it in him anymore.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
You do realize...
you’re comparing an injury-prone Wood to one of the better hitters in the game and Puckett? Really? Wood does not compare with those two whatsoever.
And closer is not a position a team wants to overpay. You can’t compare HOF level talented positional players against a closer with 1 above average year.
Free Ronny Cedeno
It's not really surprising why this didn't happen.
Teams entertaining the idea of signing a new closer take into account the entire cost of the signing, not just the player salary. Not being saddled with type-A status means Kerry should be able to sign a richer deal for himself while still costing less than other type-A relievers on the market.
Honestly, I am glad Kerry didn’t agree to that because he deserves better than to be used by a franchise that doesn’t even have the brains to find a way to make him a half-decent offer.
I am pissed...
… only good could have came from offering Woody arbitration, in my opinion.
Apparently the one negative, I guess, is if he signs it makes a tight payroll even tighter, prohibiting us from trading for peavy or signing Furcal or Ibanez. If we dont get 1 of those three players, and let go of wood for nothing, I am going to be furious.
None of this would of been a problem if we would of had an owner by now. (assuming he would be willing to increase payroll a bit)
NO...
… none of this would have happened had Jim Hendry not had a guiding principle of spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave.
So the 2 division championships were a mistake? 97 wins was a mistake? Edmonds was a mistake?
Yes, the payroll has expanded, and some questionable decisions (Fukudome) were made, but the performance of the team has gone up. If we can afford to spend money to make the team better, why not?
by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't buy it.
We got the championships by having a team that played the best ball from April 1st to September 30th. We played the best ball by having the right guys. We got the right guys by spending money.
yes...
… thats how we got the championships. But there were other ways to get there and Hendry has never shown any concept on how to do this. In addition to the “right guys” there were guys taking up a ton of salary and not earning their keep.
Show me a team in the top ten in payroll
that doesn’t have dead weight on the bench at any given time.
the dead weight...
… isn’t on the bench, it was in right field, first base and the #5 spot in the rotation. Half the season there was also dead weight and wasted money playing left field.
Marquis's contract may be "dead weight"
but he did a very respectable job for a 5 starter. Problem is, he’s paid like a top of the rotation guy.
I won’t say that Hendry hasn’t made some bad calls. But he has also gotten results, which tend to be remembered longer.
Ned Colletti.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions
Dave Littlefield.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Bill Bavasi.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Brian Sabean.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
These guys...
… have made mistakes, but not nearly on the order that Hendry has.
- Latroy Hawkins
- Mike Remlinger
- Bobby Howry
- Alfonso Soriano
- Shawn Estes
- Antonio Alfonseca
- Glendon Rusch (after resigning him)
- Jeromy Burnitz
- Juan Pierre
- Jacque Jones
- Jason Marquis
- Kosuke Fukudome
Sorry… these GMs listed have not wasted nearly the amount of money on a regular basis that Hendry has
What a waste of time
You could make a list of bad signings/trades for EVERY GM who has ever been a GM.
and I bet if you did...
… you wouldn’t come up with the depth of wasted money that Hendry has dolled out. There is a point here, its being illustrated right now with the Wood situation and it will further deteriorate as the Cubs are paying big dollars to guys who are old and bad, all given from Jim hendry.
I don't have the time or the desire, really...
to compare other GM’s bad signings, but suggesting that Hendry is the worst GM when talking about giving out bad contracts seems pretty absurd. All you have to do is look at the NL West to quickly find two worse GM’s (LA and SF).
SF and LA
If you are going to say that Colletti and Sabean have dolled out more worse deals than Hendry then please back it up.
Well considering the Dodgers
had Jones, Pierre, Penny and Schmidt all signed last season for high dollars, there is a good start. The only reason the Dodgers were good last season was because of the cheap talent from the farm that played for them and helped them get Manny. Their contract signings have been terrible.
umm how about Barry Zito and his $126m?
….that might be the worst FA signing in baseball history that everyone saw coming…
Sabean is a horrible GM in every regard, it is amazing he is employed.
New sig currently under construction
A little overboard don't you say
Shawn Estes?
Howry was pretty good for 2 seasons.
Remlinger was actually pretty good overall.
Everyone of those guys offered some value
for at least half a season, and in multiple cases for several seasons.
If this is your list that supposedly damns Jim Hendry, your case is very weak.
Not a single Carl Pavano, not a single Mike Hampton, no Luis Castillo…
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 7:18 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I disagree, for this reason.
Jeremy Burnitz and Jacque Jones (and most of the other players on that list) were not signed in an attempt to make the Cubs a champion.
They were signed as placeholders, or in a halfhearted attempt to remedy a previous error. And most of the were given serious money, which hamstrung the Cubs from being able to contend for true difference-makers, like Vlad Guerrero or Carlos Beltran.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
We didn't go after some of these big-ticket FAs
because that was in the McPhail era and we chose Choi over Thome and Patterson over Beltran.
Both Dome and Soriano were considered to be the top FA at their position and/or batting type by many more people than Hendry.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Soriano...
has not been wasted $. And it’s too soon to say Fukudome’s contract was a waste. And Howry was very valuable for a couple of years, he’s a mixed bag that doesn’t belong on this list.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe we need to start a list...
of all the great moves he’s made. Bet it’s just as long… I’ll start it off:
Mark DeRosa
Jim Edmonds
Reed Johnson
Dempster back to the starting rotation
Ted Lilly
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Aramis Ramirez is one of The Best Moves.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
I think probably his best one, all things considered.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Getting something - anything! - out of Todd Hundley...
Even more amazing considering we ended up with Eric Karros
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The only way to look at this...
…is to measure Hendry’s wins per dollars spent during his tenure vs the other guys.
I don’t know what that would come out to, but I would imagine Hendry would have spent quite a bit per win. The Yankees are off the chart, so they aren’t a good example, but the other clubs would be a fair comparison.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Doing this would be difficult
because it costs more money to go from 90 wins to 100 than it does to go from 80 wins to 90. There’d be some difficult mathematical curve involved that I can hardly wrap my brain around.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
You'd also need to compare
the relative farm systems of the teams given the time the GM took over.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
Hendry was in charge of our farm system.
That failing is also his failing.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Since 1994...
…to be exact. And, you have to hope this takes a turn for the better, with the guys he brought on 2-3 years ago. If not, you could very well see a period of rebuilding if this core group doesn’t bring home a championship by 2010.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Measure it over his tenure...
…and see what you come up with. Also, you have to factor in no trades and backloaded deals because they impact the flexibility to move those players and to improve your club.
Hendry went for broke and I think some of this was the Trib telling him to go ahead because they were selling. The problem comes in from the lack of player development over a long period of time, and that forces you to overpay for guys.
Then window is short, and if it doesn’t happen, Hendry will be out the door (in a couple years) along with the bulk of this core group.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
If only he'd gone for broke with the right guys.
For the money we’re paying Soriano and Fukudome, we could have had Beltran and Vlad Guererro. Seriously.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
I don't blame him for...
…Fukudome, because he was on a lot of teams rader screens, and he was rated high by many. Fukudome could also turn things around and be a solid player.
The problem I have had with Hendry is how he has chosen the pieces in putting together a puzzle and it has been flawed since he caught lightning in a bottle with his 03 moves. Since that time, he has virutally forgotten why that club has successful – balance of speed, power and average and very good one and two hitters to set the table.
It’s one thing to have a flawed philosophy of scouting and developing young talent, but it magnifies the problem when you aren’t adept at identifying the right pieces to acquire on the major league level. Hendry has gotten better (with help), but the check book has been the main reason they have had success in the short term, and it has also made it even more critical to make solide choices this offseason.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
In the short term...
…you are correct. But, relying too much on FA (and less on internal development) eventually catches up with you, and it looks like Hendry has hit the ceiling in regards to spending and you still have holes to fill.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Everything comes with a cost.
The Cubs went 66-96 in 2006. Then they won the division the next two years.
Here’s the question, and I’m going to lay it on the line for all of you who want to complain about the backloaded deals: would you trade those two division championships for the financial flexibility to resign Wood right now?
by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you don't have to though
Gregg’s going to make 3-4 million in arb, Wood would’ve made say 7-9
we couldn’t have sliced 3 million off payroll somewhere? 3-5 million????
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
Most of the roster is either pre-arb...
…or has a no-trade clause/10-and-5 rights. There are only three players you can trade who don’t have an NTC and reduce payroll, and only one of them (Marquis) is actually a less valuable player than Kerry Wood.
So without discussing the Cubs’ total offseason budget for ALL acquisitions (it doesn’t seem to be large) your statement is absurd – if the Cubs have a $10 million offseason budget, $5 million is a hell of a chunk of that.
then why spend
3-4 on a completely replaceable arm like Gregg?
i don’t disagree with your point but the signing of Gregg makes no sense under that arrangement either
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
should've said trade
not signing, add in giving up a valuable trade chip you could’ve used alongside Marquis to pare back salary instead of adding salary with that chip…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
PRECISELY!
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
.....and give up a prospect......
…….at the same time!
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
I think Gregg is above the replacement level as a reliever.
I don’t know why people around here seem to hate him so much. He’s not a bad pitcher.
because
his k’s are dropping, bb’s are rising and his hr rate seems flukily aided by pitching in large ballparks in the NL East
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
It's not that Gregg is so bad.
It’s
1) that he is precisely the kind of pitcher Lou can’t stand; Gregg is Michael Wuertz Lite.
2) that we overpaid to get him seemingly just to make a statement re: Kerry Wood.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
and Wuertz
could fill that role minus the 3-4 million
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Except that Wuertz is one more casualty of the
Lou-Doesn’t-Like-Him-So-We-Throw-Him-Away malady.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:55 PM CST up reply actions
He's a middle-of-the-road reliever.
In two years as closer, he’s been just past the post in saves in the NL (8th in the league both times), doesn’t have a good, but not a bad ERA or ERA+, is moving from a a pitcher’s park to a hitter’s one (out of his control), is BR has him comparable to Turnbow and Howry! Shoot me!
I think the cost-benefit analysis of either (1) keeping Wood instead of this schmuck, or (2) saving the cash/trade for a RF/leadoff/2B/SS is greater. I don’t hate the guy, but I sure as shit am not going to have any faith in him.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Two weeks ago....
….everyone wanted to pick up Blanco’s insane $3M option, because $3M was “pocket change” to the Cubs.
Now, even after refusing Blanco’s option, $3M apparently cost us Kerry Wood.
Jim Hendry has built an incredibly expensive, and yet incredibly imbalanced and mentally weak, roster.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
So you really believe 3 M cost us Kerry?
I can’t see it.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
How can that really be argued?
Based upon precedent, Kerry would have probably gotten a 1-year deal worth about 8-9M in arbitration – and based on Hendry’s MO, it would probably be signed just prior to the hearing.
By refusing to offer arbitration, Hendry is foregoing a valuable return – (2 #1 picks!!), thereby essentially saying that he cannot risk Wood accepting, because even a 1-year deal worth $8-9M is unacceptably high.
However, he acquired Kevin Gregg, a lesser pitcher, who will command about $3M less in arbitration.
This is all about dollars. I just can’t shake the memory of Daryl Ward, of all people, taking Kevin Gregg deep on a 3-run game-winner in spacious Pro Player Stadium.
Gregg lost the closer role for the Marlins. Wood was nails for the Cubs for over a decade, and had finally found his role.
This whole deal stinks. And what’s worse, I could begrudgingly accept it if Hendry’s spending spree had brought the Cubs a lynchpin superstar. But it didn’t.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
You are assuming $ is at back of this.
The more I look at this, the more that seems unlikely. We still have money to spend, otherwise we wouldn’t hear the Cubs connected to Furcal, Ibanez, etc.
If the Fish valued Ceda enough to get us Gregg, we probably could have traded Ceda for Hermida and kept Wood.
Instead, Hendry traded Ceda for Gregg and will sign Ibanez and/or Furcal.
Furthermore, if you go back to the interviews Kerry had after the Gregg trade, he said he knew he’d likely be gone at the end of 2008. How does he know that if the reason is really financial? At the beginning of ‘08, we had no idea Dempster would cost this much to re-sign, we had no idea we’d need to buy another LH OF, and Kerry had no idea he’d be healthy all season long and command 8 M or more.
What Kerry knew back then was what management felt about him, for whatever reason, why he didn’t fit with Lou’s vision of the team.
D98, you’ve made some clever points, but all in all you are assuming what you’re arguing – that “Spendry” is all at fault.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
This is a false premise
You are posing an either-or when I’ll say that Hendry got there through foolhardy spending and could have done it other ways. Hendry only knows one way to do things, and its by spending money. His south side GM counterpart does things very differently, spends less money and has a world series championship to show for it.
yup..
… because of the backloaded contracts. Now watch the Cubs payroll take off while they have to cut loose guys like Wood.
Yea it is sad really.
Hendry is a known as a “players GM”. He’s really good to people and knows how to deal with them. Hendry is not know as much as a buisness man which is evident by all of his contracts. All of the long, backloaded contracts are really going to hamstring us in the future, unless the next owner has an unlimited budget.
You can win a championship with Wood...
…as long as you shore up other areas that need shoring up.
I realize Wood is an emotional deal, but I don’t think he would have been the “lynch pin” to them winning it all.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Once again......
the Cubs prove to all how truly f$%%@@&^^ed up they really are…………..
This is what I don't get....
As for Wood, Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said last week that it is unlikely the team will re-sign Wood, because it could not offer him a multiyear deal. Wood will be courted by several teams in need of bullpen help. But by offering arbitration, the Cubs would receive compensation if he signs elsewhere. Wood, 31, saved 34 games in 2008, his first season as a closer.
ARBITRATION ENDS, MORE TIMES THAN NOT, IN A ONE-YEAR DEAL.
Why can’t Hendry just go out and be honest with us and say we can’t re-sign him due to budget restrictions or something like that?
SERIOUSLY.
What the hell is going on? What was really the issue?
SO NOW,
A) We don’t even get draft picks for compensation
B) We’re going to watch Kerry Wood continue to excel at the closer’s role elsewhere
C) Marmol turns out that he is better suited as a setup man.
by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Hendry Did Say That...
… by saying that there were other priorities.
We can still work out a deal with Woody. My guess is by the third or fourth week of January.
In Hendry We Trust
by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
This does’t mean we can’t sign Wood. The old deadlines no longer apply. Now he can see what he’s offered when teams know their draft picks are safe, then his agents can still come back to the Cubs if the offers aren’t that high.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
I feel as if, now, it's pretty much a given that another team ponies up
some cash for him.
At this juncture I am burying any hope of him returning, that way I won’t be as disappointed when he is sitting at a press conference with another team’s GM.
I hope there’s a method to this madness.
the offers
will be higher now that draft picks aren’t at stake
plus we basically just said we don’t want you on a 1 year, 7 million deal. If the offers are likely to be higher now and we wouldn’t even go for a 1 year deal, then its over….This is the end. You’re in denial if you think otherwise
i can’t believe we couldn’t squeak 4 million into the payroll (i say 4 because we added likely 3 from Gregg AND gave up Ceda), this is ridiculous
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
This is precisely correct.
By declining to offer arbitration, Hendry is saying in absolute terms that the Cubs have no intention of signing Kerry Wood at any price.
It’s a horrible, borderline insane decision, made all the more infuriating by the fact that it was completely caused by Hendry’s stupid spending spree on proven mediocrities.
Now we have a remarkably expensive team with no real superstars, and as of today, no clubhouse leaders. Hendry should be fired.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
It seems to me that that isn't a reasoning.
Wood wants to play here…..
Money is not an issue and neither is a multi year deal.
I just feel as if there is something going on that we’re not aware of.
I hope I’m wrong.
Perhaps You Statement...
…about us not being aware of everything is true. Perhaps Piniella said, “cut ties… I’m through babysitting”.
Honestly, though, I think Kerry and his agent was looking to maximize and Hendry couldn’t accommodate. All that we can hope for is that the value that Kerry puts on the non-tangibles outweighs any monetary and years offers he gets.
In Hendry We Trust
I think youre wrong on C
He’s gonna be lights out, the next Krod. Im sure they had the same reservations about him replacing Percival a few years ago, but that worked out well….their stats are fairly similar through their first 2 years as strictly set up men
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I think Marmol will be a great closer, but...
I actually think the Cubs will be a bit stronger in the 9th inning. My concern, in essence, is that we lose Marmol. He was a tremendous weapon in the 7th and 8th to get out of a jam and get to the closer.
I would bet that marmol pitched more “high pressure” innings than Wood did. So, we now replace Marmol with Gregg, which is clearly a step down.
Eamus Ursuli!
correct, but my point was regarding his ability to close
maybe he’s young enough to do some 4 out saves
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I worry about him going through that stretch in the second half last year....
..AS the closer next year.
There were times he couldn’t get anyone out. And during that strecth it sure wasn’t a fluke.
Indeed
The one way I can see this whole mess NOT significantly weakening the BP is if Marmol is used as a closer the way Rivera was in years past, with 4, 5 and even some 6 out saves.
we shall see
Eamus Ursuli!
Thats the thing
We know what Wood can do, Marmol it is uncertain.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
That marmol strech before the All Star break...
…really has me nervous now.
"Just win tonight" - derv
Marmol has not been good in 2-inning performances.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
and people wonder how a team can go 101 years without winning
ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
This is one strange offseason
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
It's the inevitable result of Hendry's spending spree.
It would have been nice if the spending spree had resulted in at least one star player, but, there you go.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
asinine
this whole thing is asinine
i’m so angry right now
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:38 PM CST reply actions
My sales manager does some strange things...
…and sometimes I sit back in awe that he actually foresaw an angle that wound up working.
I have to trust that JH knows what he is doing and there is a strategy involved.
"Just win tonight" - derv
that's ridiculous
sorry because i’m in a heightened state of emotion here, but the difference between a team giving up 1 draft pick late in the 1st round isn’t going to be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in his offers. It’s just not. If a team was going to give Wood a 3 year deal, they were going to likely give it regardless of the single draft pick.
All this does is guarantee we get zero compensation for him
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
you're telling me
because teams have been acting this way for years, all of the sudden it’s going to change? Every big time closer that’s been available in FA has signed somewhere he hasn’t just gone unnoticed and left without a job. That’s the implication here that if we offer him arb, NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE IS GOING TO OFFER HIM A CONTRACT?
really?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
Um.
You said:
the difference between a team giving up 1 draft pick late in the 1st round isn’t going to be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in his offers.
And I disagreed. That is not the same as saying:
That’s the implication here that if we offer him arb, NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE IS GOING TO OFFER HIM A CONTRACT?
Kerry Wood is more valuable as a FA to another team if he doesn’t require draft pick compensation. That doesn’t make him valueless to another team if he does require draft pick compensation.
right
my point was it’s not going to be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in the level of interest he generates.
as in if we did offer him arb, no one goes near him and if we didn’t offer him arb, he’s flooded with offers
he was likely going to get a contract somewhere, the only reason we’re not offering him arb is because we clearly don’t want him back for some reason
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
So valuable that the Cub
don’t try and acquire them.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Poor Gregg
Gregg will be a major loser in this fiasco I fear. I can very easily see the Wrigley faithful never warming to him and booing him mercilessly at the slightest sign of trouble. Cub fans know that he is the guy who replaced Wood, so booing him will be the closest they can come to booing Hendry.
I fear the worst.
Eamus Ursuli!
Its gonna be ugly
imagine the first game blowing HR he gives up
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Absolutely
The poor guy is going to have to be perfect
Eamus Ursuli!
I'll lay off the guy....
he didn’t choose to come here.
But if he turns out to be a 2009 Bob Howry you can expect that he’ll need a few bodyguards.
He's a fucking Cub now
You root for the uniform. You want to root for Woody, you go root for whatever team he lands on.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
damn... Im agreeing w/ Wolf
but its true. As much as I love Kerry Wood, its the front of the uniform not the back that I root for.
Plus if the Cubs would actually win some playoffs games next year…. I think much could be forgiven.
by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 2, 2008 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
Easy...
I am in no way saying that I will boo, or do I think that anyone else should boo Gregg. I agree with you, I have been frankly sickened by the mean spiritedness of some Wrigley Field ticket holders in recent years, particularly the venom spewed at Jacques Jones.
My point was simply that I fear that Gregg could become a victim to that same sort of wrath because he is replacing Wood in essence.
Eamus Ursuli!
If you were measuring by this board sure...
But I’m not sure this is exactly a scientific sample of the feelings of average Cub fans.
I suspect that most people will notice that Gregg is wearing a Cubs uniform. As Worf noted, that should be good enough for all of us. Hell, if we can cheer for Jim Edmonds…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
Wrigley Boo-birds
Cub fans are pretty smart and, increasingly, harsh. Sure, Edmonds was cheered, but only after he started to hit. Hawkins and J. Jones are examples of two players who the fans never warmed to. In part this was because of their struggles on the field, but the boo birds were always fiercer than their play warranted, especially for Jones.
Eamus Ursuli!
...which is a trend that is both embarassing and needs to change immediately.
"Just win tonight" - derv
Cub fans aren't as smart as we like to think they are
A lot are, but some WOO! are mindless WOO! automatons WOO! that think Harry Caray invented baseball and if you WOO! don’t throw it back WOO! you’re committing a crime against nature.
WOO!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
i hate to say it
but as a fan who grew up far from Wrigley I always envisioned Cubs fans being really smart, good baseball fans
unfortunately the more i get out to Wrigley the more i realize that belief is like believing in Santa
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
Say, who is singing today?
WOO!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
Jones got a raw deal
But Hawkins provided poor effort, poor attitude and blamed everyone else for his troubles.
I am embarrassed by how fans treated Jones. I will defend how they treated Hawkins.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Agreed.
The reputation of the Bleacher Bums notwithstanding, I had never thought of Cubs fans as being cousins of Philly fans in terms of smarts and behavior. But ever since the aire of expectation set in about the Cubs winning since about 2003, I’m noticing more and more how many idiots are in our ranks.
Maybe I’m thin-skinned, but it’s embarressing at times.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 1, 2008 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
For heavens sake.
I certainly hope that does not happen. That would be childish. If the guy is in a Cub uniform on opening day you cheer for him just like the other players in a Cub uniform.
I don't understand at best...
To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!
2003 and bullpens in the playoffs
I would argue that a strong bullpen is one of the absolute keys to success in the playoffs and the Cubs have just compromised that.
In 2003 both the Cubs and BoSox were done in by weak bullpens. The Cubs’ pen blew game 1. Then in Game 6, imagine if a Marmol and Wood were waiting and ready in the pen… It is much easier to imagine Baker going to get Prior if he had a better option than Farnsworth or Remlinger. The same was true for Pedro in Boston.
The fact is that the Cubs are taking a huge risk. No, the bullpen wasn’t a problem in the last two years, but, in a close series, the bullpen becomes huge, and we are weaker there now than at the end of the season. Stupid.
Eamus Ursuli!
Wouldn’t we have to be leading late in a post-season game for the bullpen to be a factor? (Sorry, I had to point it out, pls don’t hate me, etc.)
I want Wood back as much as anybody, but there are other issues that need addressed too.
Sure
My point is that you don’t rob peter to pay paul.
Furthermore, I subscribe to the belief that the Cubs just played like crap this October. Good pitchers pitched like garbage, good hitters were horrible, and good fielders looked like little leaguers.
This team needs to regain confidence in teh post season. I am not trying to be a chicken little, but, imagine if the Cubs blow a lead in game one of next year’s playoffs, how much harder will that be to come back from?
Eamus Ursuli!
If your only concern is the post-season,
which is a viewpoint I share (we have a great team, they’ve proved they can win in the regular season, nearly all of them are coming back at this point), why not lay off some payroll, see how spring training and the first part of the season go, and add a closer as needed before the end of July? This is baseball, after all, and thinking too far ahead can and will get you in trouble.
I have to believe there are still too many variables on December first to go freaking out about losing one guy, no matter how much that one guy may mean to the team and the fans.
Because...
… adding a proven closer at the trade deadline is nearly impossible. Look at Fuentes this year. Everyone new that he would leave Colorado. They seemed willing to trade him, but they couldn’t find a deal.
Eamus Ursuli!
I'll take my chances
in order to get some of the other problems dealt with. The market will be different that time next year.
Eh, can't say I wasn't surprised
I had a feeling this would happen once it became clear Wood wasn’t a priority and the FA market was flooded. It created a situation that would’ve increased the likelihood of arbitration being accepted. This is a perfect storm of sorts where we are likely to see teams acting a bit differently, particularly in regards to the glut of closers on the market, and where some arms might’ve jumped at arbitration for fear of waiting too long. I think, as much as I disagree with it, that Wood fit in that group (whereas, Fuentes/K Rod seems to fit in a group where someone will likely shell out). I disagree with it, and to be honest, I think I’d rather chance on Wood for a 3 year deal than the other two.
As noted, I disagree with this. I still think we needed another strong pen arm.
____________
The suggestion has been made that we could get Peavy if we simply trimmed Marquis’ salary (Van Dyck article loosely suggest that). If that’s the case, I honestly would rather see Wood return (assuming we can move Marquis) than trading for Peavy and leaving, IMO) a question in the pen. That said, I doubt it is as simple as Van Dyck makes it sound.
The question here is -
if Jim Hendry is shopping for a LH bat – does the $ for that bat require dumping Marquis first?
In other words, do we have 10 M to spend or 10 M + whatever we don’t pay Marquis next year?
Or do we have nothing left and can’t make any moves until payroll is cut?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
A gentleman's agreement
Also could have had issues with the players union and MLB. Other teams don’t like that kind of thing.
Real world, people.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Real world is right.
Things like this do happen. Who’s to say how many other teams have done things like this with players? We just don’t know.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
This is horseshit
I don’t by this garbage about payroll restraints. All the perspective owners that made bids on this team know what they are getting into. The stadium is packed, most loyal bunch of fans, a treasure of a ballpark, and a team that has won the last two years. So they will come on board and cut payroll, I don’t think so. What are we talking here, another 8M on top of 135M for the team, cut me a freaking break. So we eliminate a closer that saved 34 games, add Bob Howry’s brother and now have a closer who never closed for the whole season before so according to Jimbo" can work out a multi year deal somewhere else"
All that favor Wood leaving tell me how this makes the Cubs a better team?
If the Cubs go after Ibanez and sign him, and lose our first round pick, wow that would just top it off.
It is funny Maddux, Grace and Wood all shown the door, and you know what it was never better when they left.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 9:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It appears Hendry has a hidden agenda....
Unless Jim is confident that he can pull the Peavy or Roberts deal off, this just doesn’t make sense. We aren’t that broke. Saving up for a platoon right fielder over Woody is just bull. Jim knows their are an excess of closers that aren’t needed and this is the worst time for Woody to be on the market. Woody knows that too. Come back for one more year and we’ll see what happens. If we don’t land one of roberts or peavy and use up that remaining cash this is bullshit.
Anti-wood
The more I think about it, the more I think that this was actually a baseball decision and that the Cubs brass has effectively given up on Wood.
Consider that Gregg will make ~$4million or so. Wood would probably have signed for $9-10 million. Consider that the Cubs gave up Ceda, who as a cheap and promising arm has a value of at least a few million if only as trade bait.
This means that keeping Wood instead of Gregg would actually have been only about a 3-4million dollar expense, at most, possibly more. I don’t care how tight finances are, but that is chump change. So I have to think that this was more about baseball than $
Eamus Ursuli!
And if that's the case...
… it was still a mistake, because the Cubs are a worse team with Gregg replacing Wood in the bullpen.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
We Don't Know Yet...
…where the other $4M is going. As of right now, it doesn’t look good. Let’s see what it looks like at the beginning of ST.
As an example, maybe the tandem of Guzman-Shark-Gregg-Marmol+$4M is better than Shark-Marmol-Howry-Wood. Again, depending on where that $4M is spent…
In Hendry We Trust
Maybe.
I do like Guzman’s arm. If he’s healthy, he could be a real sleeper.
I might even like him as the setup guy to Marmol, with Gregg and Shark before him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I Wonder If...
… the Shark doesn’t even make the team and is given time in AAA to fine tune his final pitches to become a starter.
And, if the Cubs land Peavy, I wonder if Shark gets that chance if Harden is traded or walks at the end of the season.
In Hendry We Trust
Lou said on CTL
that Shark has 3 pitches. He also said Shark will be given a chance to start this spring.
three...
if you count hitting the backstop on the fly every now and then.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
They don't call him Nuke Laloosh for nothing.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
I think one reason a lot of us.....
are upset (including me) is due to the fact that these “other priorities” don’t seem to be leading us anywhere / involving players that would be extremely useful to us, i.e. Mark Teahen.
true
and until we know how that $ is spent (assuming it is), it’s hard to tell if this will be a net positive or not…
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
This is on Jim Hendry
For those of you searching for a reason behind this, its on the GM. Jim Hendry has NO money to spend. He is now reaping what he sewed, spending an inane amount of money on too many players and hedging his bets in the early years by back loading the contracts. Now its coming home to roost.
Because of this all, the Cubs not only are going to let Wood go, but Hendry had to trade away a very promising prospect in Jose Ceda to have a replacement for Wood. Then they lost out on two draft picks because the Cubs can’t afford the risk that Wood accepts arbitration. Hendry’s foolish spending and contract sturcture has cost the Cubs not only Kerry Wood but a prospect and two draft picks before the 2nd round.
I don't know about you,
But I feel Division Championships are Fool’s Gold if that’s all a team can achieve.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 2, 2008 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
2 NLDS sweeps = exactly nothing.
I’m sure you’re enjoying how your official 2007 and 2008 NL Central Champs! hats look on your mantle, but frankly, there are 6 division champions every season, and it’s not that big of a deal. No one in the organization is particularly happy with how 2007 and 2008 went.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
True, but...
Hendry did put the Cubs in a position to win the Division titles in 07 and 08, which is an essential step in getting us all the hat that we do want to place on our mantles.
I am not sure that I see any moves that I wish Hendry had made instead of moves he did make that would have improved our chances of having a WS champion right now.
Eamus Ursuli!
2 moves in particular.
Hendry could have signed Vladimir Guerrero to play RF, and Carlos Beltran to play CF, for almost exactly the same money he’s currently paying Kosuke Fukudome to play RF and Alfonso Soriano to “play” LF.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
The fact of the matter is that no one outside the Cubs organization knows how much $$$ they have to spend.
In fact, Jim Hendry may not know until ownership is decided.
Meanwhile there are plenty of things about the Wood situation that stinks beyond just the monetary explanation.
This may not be on Jim Hendry at all. It has been speculated and it must be answered if this is on Lou not wanting Wood back.
Kerry did say that he thought this was coming all year long. There was no reason to think it was coming back when Fukudome was hitting and it didn’t look like we’d need to add another LH RF.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
What I meant is that
if it was just about the money, it wouldn’t have made sense for Kerry to think money would be a problem in the first half of the season.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
You can't look back though and blame the money on Hendry dmlichte
We had this dam thing locked up last year and we choked. The money was well spent. All we can do now is look ahead and make sure the face of the franchise and a dominant closer is ahead of a left handed outfielder that hits .245 with 60rbi’s in K.C. Prioritize Jimmy Boy, this is crazy.
I can do whatever I want
and I think as we see the Cubs now unable to afford someone like Wood or an upgrade in right field, it becomes clear that Hendry is fiscally inept and only knows how to spend money. Last year was not money well spent. It was not a choke job. It was, for the second year in a row, an offense not meant to succeed in the playoffs against top notch starters. It is a team with not enough left handed hitting. It is an all-or-nothing offense and offenses like that do not tend to do well come playoff time.
So,
given that we can’t undo any of that, you want to spend what money we have left on keeping a closer rather than fixing those problems?
Nope...
Hendry couldn’t keep Wood. He made the decision he had to. There was really no way, short of a new owner coming in tomorrow and upping the payroll to $160-170M or short of someone taking Marquis and Soriano off the Cubs hands, that the Cubs could keep Wood and improve RF and some bullpen holes. I would not have kept Wood.
But the point remains that Hendry was forced to make this decision by his foolish spending.
Hendry's supposed foolish spending
Why are we in the fix we are in?
“The fix” being that we have given these goals for the off-season –
1) LH bat for the lineup that can hit in the first 4 or 5 spots.
2) Veteran arm for the ’pen, lefty if possible.
3) More speed if possible, hopefully a lead-off hitter.
1 and 3 are – I wish this was ironic – our big ticket purchases from the last two off-seasons, who Lou doesn’t like so much now. 2) just signed with Philadelphia for 1 year at 2 M.
The reason we are in “this fix” is because the MANAGER has mismanaged the parts he has been given, trying to force players to be things they aren’t to fit his close-minded roles. Kosuke Fukudome was never a LH slugger. But what if he had been praised for being an on-base machine and ideal #2 hitter, instead of pushed to be an RBI man? Maybe his second half would have been different had the team focused on what he could do instead of what he couldn’t do.
Felix Pie adds the speed and defense and LH down-order power, which would fit ideally on a team batting Dome and/or Fontenot in the first two spots. But we were so desperate for offense that we couldn’t spare the time to develop him last year.
Scott Eyre proved he still had it, but Lou couldn’t be bothered to learn his name. Michael Wuertz is Kevin Gregg and then some, but his slider wouldn’t work after being sat in the ’pen without work for 8 day stretches.
We could go into ‘09 without spending a dime on the position players who scored 50 more runs than any other NL team and were second in the entire majors only to Texas. The only reason we’re blowing our whole off-season budget on a position we could already fill from within is so that Lou-and-6 Piniella can cover his butt for his playoff failures with a 37-year-old aging-but-LH-slugging excuse.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
This will be a shock
I agree.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 2, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
Assuming...
…both Pie and Fukudome would have performed as you say, you are right.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Fukudome was just remarkably bad in the 2nd half last year.
He was completely useless. He was not an OBP machine – he was an out machine.
That would not have changed with him in the #2 spot. He would have just had the opportunity to make a few more outs, and D-Lee would have had a few more 6-3’s instead of 6-4-3’s.
This isn’t Piniella’s fault. Hendry should have signed Beltran instead of Soriano. And that’s just for starters. There are at least a half-dozen times when he sat on the sidelines in the last 5 years while true superstars were available, and instead busted the bank on mediocrities.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Lou keeps telling us that certain players are completely worthless.
He was wrong on Scott Eyre.
In a year or three, we will likely see whether he was wrong on Pie, Cedeno, Wuertz, Hill, and others. Maybe they will be able to break free like Carlos Guillen and Raul Ibanez (two other players who couldn’t succeed under Lou). Fukudome could also be traded and given the opportunity to revive under a different manager. If all those guys fail, the tally of lost talent under Lou could be minimal and he will deserve the congratulations so many want to give him now for being a Master Talent Evaluator.
The tally of lost talent, however, could also be depressing, and we will look back and see that a team which could have had a long window of contention had it prematurely shut by an impatient manager.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Rec'd
Well aid, DGU.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I couldn't agree more!!
The talent is already here. That big left handed bat is not needed. In fact A ram actualy hits right handers better than left handers, and there is not much drop off for Lee or Soto either.
This team lost the last two years because they folded under pressure, not because they weren’t more talented.
The money was incredibly poorly spent.
The Cubs have spent as much as any other non-Yankees MLB team, and have nothing to show for it.
Kosuke Fukudome may be the worst hitting non-pitcher in the game. Hendry gave him $12M annually.
Derrek Lee is the 6th best 1B in the NL Central, and average-to-below-average offensively across the board. His contract couldn’t be moved.
Jason Marquis is making $9M this year. (I still can’t believe that, even as I write it.)
Alfonso Soriano is making the same money as Carlos Beltran. And he’s older, and can’t field, or hit against a legitimate MLB pitcher.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Wow, this sounds like a horrible team
My guess is a team riddled with such bums probably lost 90 some games this last year.
Eamus Ursuli!
Exactly.
All over the board he keeps making posts as if the Cubs haven’t won the division the last two years, and as if that isn’t a MAJOR improvement over what the Cubs historically have done.
Maybe it’s just I’m old enough to appreciate the difference between being frustrated at being 7 games or less from a WS, and being frustrated when we’re effectively a Major League level AAA team with a 10 year rebuilding plan.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
Why did Hendry spend $48M on Dome?
Because Lou threw Jacque Jones and Cliff Floyd into the trash can, then wailed about not having a LHB RF. Do you remember who the second best FA LHB RF was last off-season???
That’s right — Trot Nixon.
Relax, it could be worse. Hendry could have signed Luis Castillo to a 4-year, $18M contract because Lou wanted a speedy, LHB 2B.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Why hasn't the Tribune picked up the story yet when the Sun-Times posted it 2 hours ago?
hmmm
"Just win tonight" - derv
Get a load of this...
Kerry Wood answered the call from the bullpen last season for the Cubs, reinventing himself as a capable closer with 34 saves.
Will he pick up the phone when Dusty Baker from division foe Cincinnati calls him?
The Cubs decided to pass on offering Wood a multiyear deal to retain his services, so Baker says he plans to give Wood a call to check on his possible interest in signing with Cincinnati.
"Just win tonight" - derv
Ooohhh, kinky!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Maybe that is part...
…of the reason the Trib is losing it’s ass.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Something just isn't right about all of this...
It just doesn’t make sense. I’m hoping that one day, probably 5+ years down the road, we find out what real reasons for Wood’s departure were.
There’s something weird going on here.
Agreed.
There has been too little from the two sides of this issue in the media. Something isn’t normal about this.
As anyone considered...
that it’s Wood who doesn’t really want to stay (despite us hearing the opposite?)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
nothing pointing to it...
but when other options dont’ seem to make sense, I thought it might be worth considering as an option. Also I really like donuts.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 3, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
Dlmichte ARE YOU SERIOUS
Yes, you can say whatever you want, but use your head pal. You say bottom line this offense wasn’t meant to succeed in the playoffs….we had the best dam offense in baseball the whole season. THEY CHOKED. This was the best offense we’ve hard statistically since 1910 and you bash it. WTF is offense is offense when it comes down to it. We got out pitched regardless in all three games. Are O choked. We lost.. look forward
Reply button?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Yup, I'm serious
and I’m using my head. Two years in a row the Cubs scored a total of 6 runs in 3 playoff games. If this doesn’t tell you that there is something beyond the Cubs choking then I guess I should stop replying to you. Jim Hendry builds great fantasy league teams. That appears to be about it.
I think it was the Oh My God What The F*** Bar-B-Q.
It sounds fantastic!
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
It was...
…but they closed Big Daddy’s BBQ here in Des Moines earlier this year. RIP, tasty sandwiches.
Big Daddy's closed?
I’ve never eaten there, but if I recall correctly, they packaged their BBQ sauce and sold it. My mom bought me some of their Hot BBQ sauce. It was fantastic!
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
Yeah...
Big Daddy himself passed away some years ago, and the joint closed for a year or two, then reopened on weekends. The not-so-hot sauce may still be available, but trying to find the insanely hot sauces that put people in the hospital may be impossible now.
HOWEVER, they are still catering, IIRC.
forget the day .. This is Post Of The Month, Gang
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
What are your plans then to improve the..
top NL 97 win team to fit into a better 5 game playoff series team….. what can you do, you put the best dam team out their and you hope for the best… you can’t tell me going in you were saying this… they win it you hail them… you know they should have…..i think your just pissed, which i am too…but we get a left handed bat ie ibanez or via trade with roberts and pick up a lefty starter and id take the same dam team we had… that includes the basis of this blog, Kerry Wood.
Acquire Legitimate Star Hitters.
Hendry has signed a bunch of somewhat-above-average players who can crush terrible pitching.
Fortunately, in the NL Central, we’ve seen quite a bit of it.
Unfortunately, in the playoffs, we have not.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
Bottom line
this is just a bad day. Wood should be in a Cub uniform. Period
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
DMLITCH is 100% correct.
2 things the cubs need
1 speedy LH/Switch hitter at the top of the order
2. LH/Switch thumper in the middle of the line-up to split the righties up.
That thumper has to play RF because we are stuck with Derrek Lee for at least 1 more year.
Improving the starting rotation with Peavy will be great for the regular season, but what are we going to do in a short series with a potential 5 aces for maybe 3 spots if the off days are spread out? I mean, do we sit Harden and Lilly? Do we put in the pen the new 52 million dollar arm and nut case Z? No need to have this problem.
Lineup has to be tweaked, then we go play some ball. We won’t be 3 and out again.
In regards to the Wood thing, the Cubs misplaced this hand. At minimum, they should of offered Kerry a 2 year 12 millon dollar contract with incentives and back load it ( we know Jim Hendry is a master of this) give Kerry 2 million this year and the rest next year when we should have an owner in place. I mean, how did they fuck this up so bad? Not even offer him arbitration when our farm system can’t even get salary dump players that teams are desparate to get rid of. Sad, real sad
Dusty wants him to set up for Cordero now...
Yikes, thatd be awkward huh?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Maybe Dusty is doing a favor for us.....
He’ll overuse him, end his career next season, and Wood will be back in the Cubs organization teaching proper mechanics.
I love the way we throw around money
when it’s not ours.
I don’t see any World Series rings with Kerry Wood as a Cub. Move on.
Dempster picked up a contract that was well more than he’s worth. Why spend 12 million on Wood? Marmol’s cheaper and is just about ready to step up. No team should overspend on their bullpen, ala the Brewers did last year.
Hendry spent way too much on Howry and Eyre, and I wonder if that’s in the back of his memory.
Bullpen help can be found on the cheap. Before the Padres imploded, Kevin Towers was a master of finding guys to bolster Trevor Hoffman. All eventually left as FA for more cash, and were probably overpaid. (or were traded) But the Padres got great work from a bunch of guys nobody every heard of. (I won’t go into all of the names, but Scott Linebrink tops the list)
I think it’s OK to let the guy go a year early than a year too late, when the Cubs are stuck with a 2-year (or more) deal that Wood won’t physically be able to fulfill.
And than — if that happened, you’d all be yelling that Hendry spent so much money on a guy with a litany of injuries. Do NOT tell me most of you would NOT be posting such statements if Wood was hurt by May….
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 2, 2008 12:07 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
There are real reasons to pass on Wood
especially at 12 M (although signs were that 12 M was way over what he’d cost).
Not offering him or Howry arbitration is what frustrates me.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 7:22 AM CST up reply actions
Why?
Teams usually don’t offer players arbitration if they don’t want them back at the salary they might get in arbitration.
The Yankees didn’t offer Abreu arbitration. Why? Because they don’t want to have to pay him $15 Mil. The same with Hoffman in San Diego. Both of those players will likely sign somewhere else and the Yankees and Padres could have received picks but the gamble isn’t worth it.
What if the Cubs offered them both arbitration and they both accepted and Howry got $4-$5 Mil and Wood $9-$10 Mil?
There are plenty of cases where teams offer for players they don't want.
Howry and Wood at one year deals for those prices is fine.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
Wood, yes.
Howry, no.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Howry
I actually think that a case could be made for offering Howry arbitration. This would actually be based on the assumption that that he would accept.
After a bad year, he likely wouldn’t get much of a raise in arb, making him a potential bargain. Then, he has to compete in the spring for a spot in the bullpen. If he doesn’t make the grade, he is released and the Cubs are off the hook.
I know that releasing arb players can be messy, but for a guy who struggled like Howry did last year I don’t think the Cubs would have any problem justifying such a release.
I am not saying the Cubs should have done this, but there is a pro-arb argument to be made.
Eamus Ursuli!
I think they would have a bigger problem justifying offering him arbitration.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 2, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
We are just going to have to disagree
Looking through all the offers yesterday, I see no one that I suspect the team doesn’t want back at the likely salary. The salary is the point.
As to the comment “one year deals for those prices are fine”, you are assuming that Hendry can spend whatever he wants. Those salaries are not fine if the Cubs can not afford the $13-$14 million that these two will command. He doesn’t have a bottomless pit of money and Wood is a money decision.
Um how bout Biemel
He is MUCH, MUCH better and did not get offered arb
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 2, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions
Beimel
Doesn’t fit into my point since he wasn’t offered arbitration and to be honest that one surprises me the most. More than Wood, Beimel seemed a given for arbitration.
my bad
That was meant to respond to those who thought offering Howry arb was a good idea.
I am still utterly disgusted by not offering Wood arb
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 2, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
There are a lot of them.
We know the Sox don’t want O-Cab, just like they didn’t want Uribe last year.
The Royals should be moving on from Grudz and Paul Byrd is not likely in Boston’s plans.
The sad thing is that different managing could have netted us Type B picks for both Howry and Eyre and we should have gotten Type A picks for at least one of Dempster and Wood. That’s 4 early draft picks we’ve lost, maybe 5 when the FA signings are done. So, when people want to complain about the farm system, it’s worth asking – Why did we lose those 4 draft picks? Who is to blame for the losses there?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
+2
Dayton Moore in KC is as good or better than Kevin Towers at finding bullpen guys. I’d wager that with Rothschild around, we can do the same.
I love Wood. I’m very sorry to see him go. But overpaying for him with other quality bullpen guys, both on our team and out there, is not the way to go. I wish him the very best. And if by some outside chance he ends up back here, then I’ll cheer for him yet again. …I just don’t want him to do a Mark Grace on us—-winning the Series with another team! – TL
[In 2008] Kila Ka’aihue had the best on-base percentage of any hitter in the minor leagues. - Joe Posnanski, 11/9/2008 ... Ergo, let's give him a shot at first base in KC in 2009.
you'll get your nightmare come true
i smell it on this one .. Letting Wood go is probably the stupidest thing the Cubs have done this winter ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
I agree with your take here....if only Kevin Gregg
…wasnt the addition by subtraction. (less the trade value of Ceda and the loss of a proven closer in Wood)
New sig currently under construction
+1
And than — if that happened, you’d all be yelling that Hendry spent so much money on a guy with a litany of injuries. Do NOT tell me most of you would NOT be posting such statements if Wood was hurt by May….
So true.
So NOT true.
Why do you assume Wood will get hurt? He’s been healthy (except for the blister) since mid-2007, with NO signs of the previous injuries.
Second, yes, Marmol could close — but who takes over the Marmol role from the last two years? You know, the guy who put out fires in the 7th or 8th inning? Gregg? Samardzija?
The Cubs bullpen is far weaker without Kerry Wood.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
So you're saying that the money is more important than winning.
If this is true, the Cubs have regressed without even taking the field.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Money has always been more important
Except for a few owners like Daniel Snyder who apparently will spend anything to win, money is always the top issue. What might be a little different this year is that there isn’t much flexibility in the cap.
I believe that Hendry has a firm cap that he has to work with. The cap is probably slightly higher than last year but considering the escalating salaries, there is not a lot of room. If money wasn’t an issue, I’m sure Wood would be back and Fuentes would be signed as the pen lefty.
what $ savings
I posted this above, but frankly, I really don’t see much of a savings in Wood vs. Gregg. There is maybe a $5mill difference in their 09 salaries and Ceda had value as well.
For example, if the Cubs trade Marquis and include Ceda, they may not have to eat any salary, while a Marquis trade w/o Ceda the Cubs may have to eat $3-4 million.
If you just consider that, all of a sudden this a about a revenue neutral move. This really makes me think that Hendry viewed this as a baseball move and not just a $ move.
Eamus Ursuli!
OTOH...
… both Crane Kenney and Sam Zell, last year, said “go for it” and opened the purse strings to win.
The Cubs didn’t win. The purse is now apparently closed. The reasons for that are still a mystery, though I suspect the economic situation has a lot to do with it. You haven’t seen any teams really pay big $ for any free agents this winter, yet. We’ll know more after next week.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Purse strings
Payroll is still going up in a down economic environment, so while we’re feeling the crunch, it’s not as if we have to cut payroll (which some other teams may have to do).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
The payroll couldn't help...
…but go up with the backloaded deals, even by adding no one.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
The payroll could indeed be rolled back
and Hendry forced to sign no one and trade Marquis, Harden, DeRosa and/or one of the NTCs. It looks like the Astros may be in just that situation.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
fwiw...
The Pen might be weaker right now (I think it is). But we should see who they pick up before deciding how MUCH weaker it is. They may pick up an arm that salvages some of the loss.
Remember that we can’t have everything we want. And if we can bolster other elements of the team at the cost of only an acceptible decrease in the pen, then it’s worth it if we’re an overall better team.
I would’ve loved to have Woody back. But I’m gonna wait until the 2009 Cubs are fully formed before judging whether its an improvement (on paper) over last season.
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take Angel Guzman in that role
if his arms stays healthy, he possesses electric stuff, and he can pick up the slack – I hope.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
DECEMBER VINELINE.......
In theDecember Vineline received 12-01-08 ( MICHAEL HUANG’S) page his headline reads SO LONG WOODY……So we would have to assume that Hendry made his mind up some time ago……It is a big loss for the ball club and Cubs Nation .
Even with Wood and Marmol last year,
the Cubs bullpen needed some help. Samardzija did a nice job for a stretch but it’s my opinion every team should stockpile arms for the pen. This one leaves me scratching my head, and a little angry.
We think Marmol worked a lot last year in the first 3/4 of the season, wait till 2009.
We better hope Kevin Gregg gets off to a good start, if not he will get the wrath for Wood no longer being around.
I'm finally moving on...
While I consider myself
a Woody fan, last year was the first season since 2003, where he gave us a full season. In a reliever role. And – even then, he missed time due to his slowly-healing blister.
I believe that the Cubs showed as much or more “loyalty” than KW, by showing him the Money. 2006 and 2007 the Cubs payed Woody nearly $20,000,000. How many innings you ask? 70 – in two years, for a rotation “ace”. It comes to about $300K an inning for mediocre results, at that.
My understanding of the whole affair, is that IF this had gone to arbitration, he would have accepted and it stands to reason the arbitrator could have awarded $10MM for a one-year deal. Based on his track record of injury, the team’s needs moving forward, and where the budget is currently, I understand the decision. I do not like it – but understand it. I don’t think that the Cubs will necessarily be that much “worse off” as some as you think. Time will tell.
Correction...
In 2006/2007 combined, Kerry Wood actually earned 21.5MM.
+1
The likelihood that it would have actually gone to a hearing is close to zero.
The Cubs haven’t gone to an arb hearing since 1993. Wood wanted to be here; they’d have made a fair deal, I believe.
You’re right, time will tell. As of now, the Cubs’ bullpen is markedly worse than the one that finished the 2008 season.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I agree
it is “worse” on paper – particularly while also letting go of Jose Ceda. But it is a sign of the Cubs times. No new owner in place, and after the big spending spree of 2007, 2008, their emphasis will be elsewhere. One reason we have not seen ticket prices yet is they have not yet put a missing piece in for the 2009 season, imo.
Not necessarily.
We possess a young, cheap bullpen that could easily improve its production from last year.
Free Ronny Cedeno
Jose Ascanio
needs to finally breakthrough – that will help. Also, Cashner if he climbs up the ranks quickly, has the stuff by all accounts.
"oh what a world, what a world"---Wicked Witch of the West as she melts down like our economy
The emotions here are understandable and well emotional. Kerry Wood has been with the Cubs almost 10 years and was one of the more dominant and interesting players to watch but in reality he was a highly paid inconsistent performer.
His compensation record since 2001 was:
2001 $1,940,000
2002 $3,695,000
2003 $6,190,000
2004 $8,000,000
2005 $9,500,000
2006 $12,000,000
2007 $1,750,000
2008 $4,200,000
total: $46M + or $5.75M per year average.
between 2001 he started and anchored the rotation starting 28, 32, 33 games and compiling a 38-28 or averaging 12.6 wins a year and losing an average of 9.
Between 2004 and 2006 he started 36 games, 61% in 2004 and 10 games in 2005. In 2007 upon agreeing to a rehab contract he returned as a middle reliever appearing in 22 games in 24 IP and showed signs of his old self. In 2008 he became the Cubs closer with an 82% close rate with 34 saves (tying Cordero of the Cinci Reds) barely in the top ten of MLB and 16th in percentage.
Yes he is a fan favorite which is part of the ‘BIG SHOW’ and he was a leader in the clubhouse.
So a decision was made and don’t fool yourself it was not just a money decision, all baseball decisions are money decisions of varying bearings.
Now think about you guys Cubs won 97 games spending $118M and as it stands right now the Cubs payroll has climbed above that. The last two years they have averaged 91 wins (having the best record in the NL since June 1 2007). And yet they have been blown away in two successive sweeps in the first round of the playoffs.
So a number of you blame Hendry and his decisions but I don’t blame anyone. Wood is good and can at times dominate but Piniella & Hendry believe money (resources) can be better applied in other areas.
DGU you say the Pie situation is partly to blame—-yes in part that Pie has not reached the level of Soto—-being a young All Star. He may have the tools but not the approach.
Others point that Fukudome is being played out of position or at least batted and I concur but a manager has to play the cards he is dealt and the lineup needed a LH bat in the middle more than a OBP guy. Next year I suspect that Fukudome will either bat 1 or 2 depending on who else is on the club and be one of the better OBP and run scorers in the game.
To the priorities are:
1) LH bat in the OF….RF is best path—-ironically two ot the top ranked RF’ers in the game are said to be available—-Giles ranked #1 overall and Randy Winn in SF, both paid about the same as Marquis. But a trade must take two willing parties.
2) If not by trade then plan B by FA with Ibanez or Abreu
3) LH reliever as in Beimel or even Fuentes
Ironically what I comprise as some of the strongest criticism is that Hendry has not been smart with the money putting in the position where he now cannot be dumb with money towards a player many of you like but is not worth it.
What a world….what a cruel world….. --yeah Kansas25 that is sarcasm
For me I will hold judgment the Cubs break for April and see how the roster emerges then—-good luck Kerry you will be remembered fondly for your entertaining 77 wins and disappointing 61 losses. Over the 9 seasons that is 8.5 wins per season, or a 8-6 average for what many thought was a HOF career.
Al——you and I were saying he would have been a Rivera type of closer back in 2002.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Well, you underlined
my points in the above post.
Agreed.
I would really enjoy Randy Winn in the North Side. I have always liked him and had hoped he would have been obtained prior to last season.
Agreed
I’m withholding judgement on the Wood situation until I see the whole picture. You can’t critique each move independently. People don’t like it but Hendry is playing a money management game right now. He can’t just sign everyone to what appears to be a reasonable contract.
Maybe you are thinking Gregg as a closer
But the possibility is that Gregg is the 8th inning set up
Gregg 2008
GP IP REC ERA SV BS SV% K/BB WHIP BA
72 68.2 7-8 3.41 29 9 76 1.57 1.28 .203
Wood 2008
65 66.0 5-4 3.28 34 6 82% 4.66 1.09 .219
Marmol 2008
82 87.1 2-4 2.68 7 2 72% 2.78 0.93 .135
Cubs will have to replace a few players in the bullpen, Howry, Wood and Erye minimum. ($11M) where Cotts and Gregg will probably get $2M of that. Question is Guzman as good as Samardz? Question is Samardz as good as Howry? Question at set is Gregg as good as Marmol? Is Marmol as good as Wood and then is Cotts as good as Eyre?
Got to find money somewhere and Wood was not K-Rod or Lidge.
Gregg is ok acquisition with experience where Ceda is not there yet.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Ivy - we had LH batters who could bat 4th/5th given their stats last year
We had TWO – check the SLG of Fontenot and Edmonds – they were two of the best LH hitters last year.
Lou wants to blame a lack of LH hitters, when he had two of the best. It’s just nonsense. It’s pitiful.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
I concur that Fontenot needs to be on the field
His slugging is extraordinary especially for that position. Too bad he can’t play CF. But he is either a top of the order slugger or #6 or #7 unless he is Houston’s " Toy Canon" reincarnate.
Edmonds was a gift but that is not going to happen again. The problem DGU is that Wood was good but not that good. I liked him but he is worth what he got paid last year, $4-5M and he was asking for more.
Fonty with 300 AB’s hit 9 HR’s and with 530 AB’s has 12 HR;s as a part 2B.
I think the other demand that Piniella is saying is that the Cubs have to become more athletic. Okay the OF with Fukudome and Soriano are offensively athletic and outside of Soriano’s short arm and inability to play defense on the warning track pretty good. RJohnson is athletic as well but he is a role player, Cubs need an established LH CF’er or RF’er and not Ibanez or Abreu….why they looked at Hermida, Teahan or DeJesus. Is Winn or Giles that person….I don’t know.
On the infield DeRosa is athletic but I don’t see Ramirez or Lee really being there. Fontenot is on the offensive side but Theriot outside all the hype and fan-love is not there. To win the WS Cubs need to make some changes. In a perfect fantasy world I can see Roberts at 2B and Fontenot at SS, DeRosa as the super ubber utility player playing around the horn but that is not reality—-for one Fontenot is out of position.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Where in the world do you get the idea that Wood was asking for more?
Wood said he would do anything to be a Cub. Offering arbitration was a way to call him on that or get two very valuable picks in return. Trading for Gregg and not offering Wood arb says, “It wasn’t about the multi-year contract we said.”
As for Edmonds and Fontenot – my point was not that they should be counted on to do what they did in ‘08 in ’09. My point was that they did it in ’08 all while Lou was blaming a lack of LH hitters. When you have LH hitters with .500+ SLG to bat 2nd and 5th, a "I didn’t have LH hitters" excuse has about as much historical realism as a Dan Brown novel.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
ahh... Jimmy "Toy Cannon" Wynn
thanks for the opportunity to do a little reminiscing of simpler days. Loved the Toy Cannon.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Yes Jimmy Wynn saw him smash one in Wrigley--1970
the game Ernie rose up in the 7th and hit a game winner.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Informal Poll:
Everyone here who remembers the last time the Cubs made the post-season two years in a row, please raise your hands.
Okay, then.
Everyone here who thinks that making the post-season consistantly is not going to improve our chances of making the World Series, please raise your hands.
Mmm-hmm.
Everybody who thinks that the October choke the past two years is primarily Hendry’s fault, please raise your hands.
Lotta Hendry haters here.
Last time I checked, the players, coaches, and manager were responsible for underscoring, throwing bad pitches, making poor strategic decisions, and generally stinking up the post-season. Am I going to defend every move Hendry makes? No! He’s made some bad trades and backloaded the crap out of the payroll. But he has also provided Lou with a roster that has shown, for two seasons now, that it can win baseball games. How do you win the World Series? You win baseball games. In October. If you’re not playing in October, you won’t win the Series. If you want someone to blame, blame Lou. Blame the starting pitching. Blame the hitting. Blame the defense. DO NOT blame a guy whose job it is to sit in an office with an accounting ledger and a shopping list and make trades that fit with both.
“But if he hadn’t this, that, and the other, we would have $X million to get player Y!!”
And we very well might have one or two fewer Division Championships to show for it, with the corresponding lack of chances to win a pennant or a ring. Hendry has done his job. Perhaps not in the best way possible, but he has done it nonetheless.
As far as Wood goes, yes, I like the guy and would rather see him wearing one of our uniforms than somebody else’s. Yes, he has a great history with the team. Yes, we’re going to have a hard time finding someone to replace him. But I also trust Jim Hendry to make decisions that will benefit the Cubs in the 2009 season and beyond. He would not still have his job if he had not demonstrated he could do that. If Hendry thinks he can make the Cubs a better team by spending what would have been Wood’s salary someplace else, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m not thrilled about it, but I still trust him more than many of you seem too.
by znohitter on Dec 2, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
I am not sure Great history is accurate.....he is a fan favorite where he had extraordinary performances
But overall a 77-61 record in 9 years is not great. 20 K’s at the age of 20 is a great performance. A few games here and there but even the 7th game in 2003 was not great.
I liked him too, situation baseball he could dominate even the best hitter on occasion but the Cubs need a RF’er like Giles or Winn to make them stronger everyday and in the playoffs.
Ironically I was reading some more stat head analysis of the Cubs and DeRosa for his career year that he spent only half the time at 2B still ranked below Roberts at 2B while Fontenot ranked two clicks behind DeRosa. If there was magic or fantasy baseball I would put DeRosa at SS and Fontenot at 2B, (oh BTW Theriot didn’t rank in the top ten of SS’s), neither did Soriano rank in the top ten of LF’er or Lee at 1B. Soto did rank as the 2rd best catcher behind McCain and the draft pick under Prior—Mauer.
Here is the bottom line, Cubs need to find a way to change the playoff situation. They need to change their batting order——find a lead off hitter, move Fukudome down to his natural front of the order spot, find a bat and glove in the OF…(you Giles or Winn could make the Cubs OF one of the best defensive ones in the league with Fukudome in CF) or go with big power in Dunn but I don’t like playing people out of position when they are bad fielders.
This will cost money
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
Raise your hand...
…the last time any Cubs team had this high a payroll compared to their competitors?
That’s right, the answer is not only never, but they have never approached being this high on the payroll list as they have been for the last several years.
If you don’t think that is the main reason they have won two divisions, you are fooling yourself, because they sure as hell aren’t doing it with drafting, scouting and developing players.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
You can spend this much money and still miss the playoffs.
Sure, the money helps, but how do you think they feel in Yankeeland?
Mark DeRosa and Ted Lilly are scouting triumphs.
Geovany Soto and Mike Fontenot are development triumphs.
There are complaints to be made about Jim Hendry, but it’s odd that there’s this much dumping on him, given his overall track record as a GM.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
I don't see how anyone...
…could compare the Yankee situation to the Cubs or really any other team. They won several straight WS not too long ago and made the playoffs for a bunch of years in a row. The best comparison are teams like the Angels, Red Sox or Braves.
Sure, you could miss the playoffs and still spend a bunch, but to say Hendry has done a wonderful job because he made the playoffs two straight years (and he was the first to do that in a long time) is not exactly comparing apples to apples here. Hendry has his strengths and weaknesses, but if he only had 70-80 mil to spend (like most GM’s), it wouldn’t be pretty.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
I don’t see how anyone could compare the Yankee situation to the Cubs or really any other team.
…um, they both play in the MLB? They both are large payroll, large market teams with a national following? They both have fans who spend all winter blogging and debating and second-guessing every move they make (and who severely dislike the cross-town teams)? I agree that there are probably better teams to compare to, based on a number of different factors, but all 30 teams play by the same rules. And both teams had large budgets and disappointing conclusions to their seasons this year.
And I’m not saying that Hendry has made everything into puppydogs and lollipops. There are still issues to be resolved, and I’m sure that he will make at least one decision that winds up being a boneheaded move this year. But if you want to harp at a guy for doing a good job and getting good results with what he was given, you should have been rooting for Notre Dame football this past decade.
"It wouldn't be pretty."
I swear, it’s like some of you guys wish we were a small market team.
Fact is – you and I have no idea what kind of GM Hendry or Cashman or Epstein would be if they worked for a small market team. They work for big market teams and should use their monetary heft to push the market around. It’s not something to be ashamed of that they have that monetary ability. It’s like complaining that Aramis Ranirez would fail if he didn’t have all his power because he doesn’t play small ball well enough. Fine. Whatever. I’m glad Ramirez has power and plays the game like a player that has power. I’m also glad that Hendry plays GM with monetary power.
For all the complaining about certain deals, does anyone notice that Hendry’s Jacque Jones deal caused St. Louis to make a worse deal to a worse player in Juan Encarnacion that turned out worse for them? The Soriano deal pushed Houston to give Carlos Lee a deal that will hurt them more than Soriano’s deal hurts us.
Finally, I didn’t say Hendry has done a wonderful job. I said he has a good record as a GM.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
In priniciple...
…I disagree because a GM’s main priority should be to instill the ability to develop your own players to an acceptable level. If you can do this, you almost assure long term success (especially with money), because you don’t have to go running to sign FA’s every offseason and you can trade for key pieces from a position of strength.
I’ll grant you that Hendry is pretty good at trades (for the most part) and is excellent at signing guys he wants (but lets face it, the money helps), but he has been far below average in regards to creating an organization that can produce its own. He also has not been the best at recognizing the right “mix” when he assembles rosters.
Hendry is frustrating to me because he is very good at some things and very bad at others. I just happen to think the areas he comes up short, don’t bode well for long term success.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
Hendry is a mixed bag.
I think his best talent has been in picking up post-prospects who have disappointed, but come to the Cubs and succeed. That’s why I’d much rather see Hendry trade for a RF than blow the budget there.
As for the farm system, there have definitely been failures there, but some of it is overblown. The Cubs could, if they chose, field their own developed position players at every up-the-middle position and win next year. Additionally, their designated ace, closer, and 3/4 of the ’pen could also be all home-grown talent.
We’re not the D’backs, Dodgers, or Rays, but we’re also younger (or at least capable of being younger) than a lot of people recognize.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 3, 2008 6:08 AM CST up reply actions
1991 was an adventure in bad contracts
And a bad season
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
please never bring that season up again
please, i beg you ..
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
I, like others
who have paid dearly for Season Ticket packages, all too well remember the horrendous decisions JH made in 2005 and 2006. I wanted him fired. Could not GIVE tickets away in fall of 2006. But I certainly give him PLENTY of praise for the last two seasons – which were helped along by McFail’s exit. Time will tell on this – it is still an excellent core – and anyone that was able to trade Todd Hundley for ANYTHING more than useful deserves some credit.
It's Business, Not Personal, But...
Wood was willing to go with a 1-year deal. I understand the reasoning for not giving him a multi-year deal with his injury history. Not giving Wood a 1-year deal is crazy. He wanted to stay with the Cubs. I, initially, thought the Cubs shouldn’t resign Wood thinking some other club was going to give him a multi-year deal. If no other club is going to give Woody that, then resign him to a one-year deal. This situation is very strange.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
"Wood was willing to go with a 1-year deal..."
For HOW much?! How do you know for certain what he would want? Playing fantasy baseball i one thing, but…$10MM (as reported) certainly plays into stuff when there is ownership uncertainies.
Uncertain Dollar Amount
It could have been $10 million. I don’t think that should have been too much. That’s reasonable for one season. I was concerned that some other team was going to be crazy and give him a ludicrious 3-year, $30 million deal. That would have been excessive. The Cubs budget must really be tight.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
Kerry Is Not a 10-and-5 Player...
… is he?
I thought I read from a fellow-BCB’er (DeRoMyHero?) that he has MLB service of like 9.1xx years?
Not that it matters, just curious.
In Hendry We Trust
He would have been 10-and-5 within a week or two of Opening Day.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Does Anyone Know...
… how service date is calculated? How can Kerry go from 9.1xx years to 10 years within a week or two of Opening Day?
In Hendry We Trust
Because of when he was called up
in ’98- made his debut on April 12. IIRC, it is based on the 162 game “season cycle” if that makes sense…maybe?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 2, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
He Was Out...
… all of 1999. Does the service date take into account time that he was on the disabled list?
In Hendry We Trust
Still on the 40 man roster, IIRC...
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 2, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Any time on a ML DL counts as service time,
up to the limit of 172 days per season.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Wait A Minute...
… sorry to keep harping on this. I find it interesting. Perhaps others don’t.
Woody came up in 1998, right? So, 1998 – 2008 is 11 years inclusive, or thereabouts. Was his time on the 60-day DL in 1999 not counted?
In Hendry We Trust
Unofficial Definition?
MLB Service: This is the amount of time that a player has spent on the active, major-league roster. It is tracked in days from the 1st day of the season (regardless of whether there are games that day or not) until the last day of the regular season. Any day that the player spends on the active roster or the 15-day DL accumulates towards this. Once a player has accumulated a certain number of days in a season (default is 172 but his varies based on league setup) he will earn a year of service.
A player who is on the 60-day DL is no longer on the active roster. Sounds like 15-day DL is counted, 60-day does not.
Makes sense in Kerry’s case.
In Hendry We Trust
Service time is calculated based on days spent on a ML roster or DL.
It takes 172 days of service time to make up one year. The tricky part is that a ML season is 178 days long, but a player can accrue no more than 172 days in any one season. Kerry Wood had 9.169 years of service time (9 years, 169 days) at the end of the 2008 season, according to Cot’s.
That means that on Opening Day, Kerry will play day 9.170; the next day will be 9.171; the next day will be 10.000.
For things like FA, the player must have the minimum time at the end of the season to qualify. (If John Doe had 5.171 days at the end of the 2008 season he could not become a FA until after the 2009 season.) However, 10-and-5 rights go into effect the very day that a player hits 10.000. So, had the Cubs offered Woody arbitration and he had accepted, he could have been traded without his consent until the third day of the 2009 season.
Clear as mud now?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
That Makes Sense
I thought the numbers to the right of the decimal point were thousanths of a year, not days.
In Hendry We Trust
This is probably a stupid question, but I'll ask it anyway.
Woody had a minor tear in his rotator cuff, and did not have it surgically repaired…..He did rehab on it……..Isn’t the tear still there?
Even though, he did not have “apparent” shoulder problems in 2008, isn’t there a strong possiblity it will be a problem in the long run?
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
The Tear Is Still There...
… and I think that Piniella had to “babysit” him a little bit.
In Hendry We Trust
The "rotator cuff" is actually a group of four muscles
Infraspinatus
Supraspinatus
Subscapularis
Teres minor
I don’t know which muscle has the problem, but his situation is similar to Sori’s quad pull of 2007. The muscle heals by forming scar tissue. The scar tissue reduces the flexibility of the muscle somewhat, but otherwise does not affect anything. So…
In answer to your question, he has scar tissue in some shoulder muscle. Depending on how much scar tissue and how much flexibility the muscle lost, he can pitch with it — just like Sori can run again. He is probably more susceptible to re-injury, however.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Thanks for this detailed info.
Hey Lou, we're long overdue.
by deadcatbounce on Dec 3, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
woody
let,s hope whatever hendry has up his sleeve justifies losing wood.i dont know if marmol is ready. i hope so.good luck woody and thanks for the loyalty.
beltran
the reason hendry did not go after beltran was that we were trying to unload sammy.that pretty much handcuffed the team .
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