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Cubs Don't Offer Wood Arbitration

Cubs Decline To Offer Arb To Wood, Howry
By Tim Dierkes [December 1 at 7:55pm CST]

According to MLB.com's Carrie Muskat, the Cubs declined to offer arbitration to Type A free agents Kerry Wood and Bob Howry.  The Cubs decided they could not take on the financial risk of Wood accepting, as they're tight on payroll.  Trading him might've been difficult, as he would've been a 10-and-5 player.  It seems that payroll forced the Cubs to make the questionable baseball decision to pass on a one-year deal for Wood. 

Star-divide

From MLBTradeRumors.com

 

Its a sad day, like everyone else, its just mind boggling.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, editor-in-chief (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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i understand this decision....

they must have felt he would have accepted and couldnt risk it….

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 1, 2008 8:06 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What was there to risk?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well it's not really a risk, it's a certainty

that the payroll will be increased by 7-10 milion dollars. Hendry doesnt think we can afford Wood and make another acquistion i.e. Peavy, Furcal, Ibanez or whoever he’s looking at

by dlee25 on Dec 1, 2008 9:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His previous screwups caused this new screwup.

Hendry overpaid for Soriano, overpaid by about 100% for Fukudome, overpaid for Lee, massively overpaid for Marquis, backloaded everyone’s contracts, and, as a result of those stupid decisions, is now forced to make another stupid decision.

In other news, Carrie Muskat continues her amazing streak of being wrong. Seriously, has anyone in the history of facts and the written word been more wrong more often?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Muskrat has a job

because she drinks the kool-aid and never bad mouths the Cubs.

by McRipper on Dec 2, 2008 10:38 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hope you can

Look really frumpy and disheveled, because that is another requirement. And one she excels at.

by StevenABQ on Dec 2, 2008 12:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Completley agree

Like I said a little further down in the post, Hendry is known as a “player’s GM”. He is good at dealing with people which is obvioulsy a great trait but his a lousy buisness man. All of the long backloaded contracts are starting to catch up.

by dlee25 on Dec 2, 2008 11:37 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree

i wanted the picks more than wood…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 1, 2008 8:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't get this at all.

You have a closer, who was one of the better ones in the league, who did everything he was asked to do, and was a standup, first-class man to have in your clubhouse.

Why would you not want such a man on your team, regardless of the price?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:11 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe this has to do with the bids....

becuase it is extremely obvious that we could not afford him even on a one year deal….

absurd.. i am kind of upset. but as i posted elsewhere this is good for kerry.. now that other teams dont have to worry about losing a pick he is the most attractive closer… go get that paper kerry

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 1, 2008 8:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn't be surprised...

…if that is the case. This “firm” hold on payroll seems to have come about the same time final bids were due from prospective buyers.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perhaps the buyer could sign Wood next season

If Wood takes a one-year deal somewhere it might signal that he’s waiting for a new owner to come in and bring him back. It’s a stretch, but we can hope.

by dr stabbingworth on Dec 2, 2008 9:16 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Possible.

We should know more after the winter meetings are over; if he hasn’t signed by then maybe it’s a sign that the market for closers isn’t as expensive as had been predicted.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 2, 2008 9:19 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Besides the big boys...

…I don’t think the market for most FA’s will be as high as it has been in the past. I really think this economy has the owners scared, and they should be.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:32 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree.

We should get a clue as to the Cubs’ payroll intentions again, when ticket prices are revealed. It should be just about time for season ticket holders to get invoices.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 2, 2008 9:35 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly....

I’m pretty much baffled.

Gregg is going to pull a ‘Bob Howry’, Ceda is going to pull a Ricky Nalasco and Wood is going to have a stellar year closing out ballgames, JUST LIKE HE DID FOR US LAST YEAR.

Putting the whole ‘Kerry Wood not going to be in a Cubs uniform’ deal aside….. we don’t even get the draft picks as a little compensation.

Ridiculous.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Their decision is not "Ridiculous"

it’s just a different approach that you’d have liked the team to take. There is a difference IMHO

by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It looks like...

…the hammer has gone down on the payroll. For all we know, this may even be driven by prospective owners as they view all the backloaded deals/no trades clauses etc., and they are saying; “slow it down”.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:11 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess the hammer missed Ryan Dempster

There is a cap. It might even be higher than last year.

What it means is that Hendry has to make decisions.

by rlpete on Dec 2, 2008 9:56 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Given a choice...

…I will shore up the starting rotation first and foremost, and I think this was a priority for Hendry.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 10:20 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's not going to do that, either.

Unless you count re-signing Dempster. I call that “treading water” at best, and more likely, “overpaying for a aging, proven mediocrity after a career year that is unlikely to be repeated.”

This is a sad, sad day to be a Cub fan. Hendry’s wild spending spree cost us Kerry Wood, and it didn’t even bring a legitimate superstar to the team!

I hope we all enjoy 2 more years of watching Kosuke Fukudome twirling around, or Derrek Lee stoically walking back to the dugout after pounding another outside slider into a 6-4-3.

Or Kevin Gregg confusedly adjusting his goggles after watching another moonshot HR.

I have to hand it to Hendry – for all of the “proven closers” the Cubs have brought in over the years, this is the first time we got in on the ground floor and acquired the “proven closer” after he lost his closing role.

Typically, we acquire the guy right before he loses the job. (Alfonseca, Aguilera, Smith, Rojas, Jones, Beck, and on and on.)

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Funny take on Gregg.

But I honestly can’t see how Hendry gets blamed for losing a player who says he’d do anything to play for the Cubs. No, the Cubs chose not to sign Wood for other reasons, be they injury or personality.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 11:23 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

His track record on "decisions" is pretty horrible.

In his tenure as GM, Hendry has consistently sat out of the bidding on legitimate superstars (Beltran, Tejada, etc.), and then overcorrected and made massive, paradigm-shifting offers to lesser stars such as Lee and Soriano.

His MO is to zero in on some slightly-above-average player, outbid the league by 20% at the earliest possible time, and get the guy locked up.

Some of those guys are productive, the majority are not. None of them are truly difference makers. The net result is a team full of slightly-above-average players who fold in high-pressure situations.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:21 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You think Soriano...

Was a considered a lesser star when the Cubs signed him? That’s seems like an awful lot of revisionist history guided by 20/20 hindsight. (Though your whole take does to me).

The guy was considered one of the few 5 tool players. Not to mention that Soriano was coming off a season where he hit 46HRs, had 41SBs, a fairly respectible average with no protection, and had his highest career OBS and OPS, and Walks earned). And he played in all be 3 games that year.

Anyway, I’d find your whole take a lot more plausible if you were railing against it all last year when the Cubs had the best record in the NL. (Please correct me if you did, but I don’t remember seeing it).

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 12:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Let's also not forget that Soriano

has only been a disappointment for 6 post-season games and to those who wanted him to be a different kind of lead-off hitter than he always had been.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 1:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's been a whole lot more postseason games than that.

Have you seen Soriano’s record in the postseason as a Yankee?

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, absolutely. And so did everyone else.

Not lesser as in “a minor star” like Luke Scott or Aubrey Huff or someone. But certainly “lesser” in that he was, and is, not in the class of the truly elite superstars such as Alex Rodriguez or Manny Ramirez.

Soriano was, without question, the top FA in his class. But no one is confusing him with Carlos Beltran. His feast-or-famine, free swinging ways were very, very well documented, and discussed to death on this website (and others) at the time of the acquisition.

The general consensus around here was that Soriano had done much better in his year in Washington in taking pitches, but that his career indicated that he was a big hit-or-miss hitter, and that while he’d be infinitely more valuable as a 2B, he was such a hack at that position that he was going to have to make it as an OF — a CF, we all hoped, because his “above-averageness” faded if you had to put him in a corner OF position.

Ultimately, what else could we say, other than “We got Soriano! Go Cubs!”? Under the circumstances, he was the big fish in that FA class. But he definitely came with a whole heck of a lot more question marks than, say, a Carlos Beltran would have.

As we all now know, Soriano is one of the best mistake hitters in the game. If you challenge him with a first-ball fastball to start a game, there’s a decent chance it’s leaving the yard. But he simply cannot recognize or hit a good breaking ball. Which means that he sees a steady diet of them from good pitchers…. which explains his Fukudomesque postseason batting average.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:44 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Few points...

For one, if I remember correctly Beltran and Soriano weren’t even part of the same FA class, so it wasn’t a choice between signing Beltran or signing Soriano. We signed Soriano in November of ’06 (in ’05 he was under arbitration). Beltran signed with the Mets around January of ’05 I think. So are you complaining about Hendry not signing Beltran the previous year, when the dynamics of the payroll and team needs were completely different? Or what exactly is your argument about Beltran?

Anyway, your “lesser star” argument also seems strange to me. I’m willing to concede that Soriano isn’t in the class of ARod, or Pujols, or maybe Manny. So what. Beltran isn’t either. But when you break down their stats, Soriano and Beltran are essentially in the same class of players. (Soriano hits more HRs and has more SBs [or did until he came to the Cubs and hurt his hamstring]; Beltran usually has a higher OBP; they have approximately equal avg.). Even on Baseball Prospectus, despite a significant diffference in VORP last year, they’re still very similar.

Here’s Soriano’s PECOTA card: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/soriaal01.php

Here’s Beltran’s: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/beltrca01.php

You’ll notice the only major difference presently is Walks and Ks. (Important certainly, but other factors are about equal). However, since we’re analyzing them at the time of their signings, note that Soriano’s VORP in 2005 was 38, 2006 was 48 (after which the Cubs signed him), and 2007 (first year with Cubs) was 42.

Beltran’s VORP in 2005 was 18, his first year with the Mets (He went nuts the next two years). I don’t know his VORP the year before his contract with the Mets unfortunately.

Anyway, the point being that I’m comfortable saying that Beltran is a better player. But it’s a bit much to argue that he is in a whole separate class from Soriano (let alone that Beltran is in the class of ARod). Their statistics just don’t bear that out.

Two last points: If you believe people like Bill James, the “feast or famine” thing is largely irrelevent (as is the idea of “consistency” and “clutch hitting”).

And your whole argument about hitting in the post-season seems to omit the essential point that you have to GET to the post-season first. Without Soriano, it would’ve been a whole lot tougher to get to October at all, particularly in 07.

Anyway, I suppose the larger point is that your analysis totally ignores the complexities of why people sign players when they do. The number of variables in play are enormous This isn’t fantasy baseball where you really just pick between Beltran and Soriano solely based off stats. And even if it was, you can make a lot of arguments for why at the time of Soriano’s signing in ‘06, and Beltran’s signing in ’05, they were (and maybe are) more or less equal.

Btw…Maybe Soriano just needs that Ocular Enhancer Machine that Beltran got in his contract in ‘05, and those curveballs wouldn’t be a problem. :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 3:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ridiculous.

Point by point.

Yes, Beltran was signed in a previous year. He was desperately needed by the Cubs at that time, and he had basically led his 2004 Astros to overtake the juggernaut Cubs singlehandedly. (He put up a OPS over .900 for 90 games, and then an OPS around 1.000 in the playoffs.)

Everyone in town was screaming for Hendry to sign him, as the Cubs desperately needed a CF — everyone knew that Patterson was not the answer. Beltran’s agent (Boras) was begging for an offer. We declined to offer, and he signed with the Mets, where, as you note, he has gone nuts the last three years after being injured in 2005 and having and outlier of a poor season.

Two years later, the Cubs still desperately needed a CF, and Hendry signed Soriano to fill that role, for almost exactly the same money given to Beltran by the Mets —

despite the fact that Soriano had never played CF and Beltran was a GG CF —,

despite the fact that Soriano was 31 at the beginning of the 7-year deal and Beltran was only 28 —

and despite the fact that Beltran had put up OPS+ over 130 for three straight years leading up to the contract, while Soriano had only 1 season with an OPS+ over 130, and had two seasons less than 110 in his three leading up to the contract.

The Mets’ deal with Beltran was obviously great at the time of signing. This is not 20/20 hindsight — there was almost 100% unanimity on this board that Beltran should have been signed by us, even for more money, at the time.

The Cubs deal with Soriano was obviously a stretch at the time of signing, and it got worse when he flopped as a CF, completely stopped running, and when it was revealed that he was a guess/mistake hitter with very little ability to hit legitimate pitching. I shudder to think of what will happen if Soriano’s bat-speed tanks at age 37 or 38.

By sitting out of the bidding for the truly great free agents for several years, and then trying to overcorrect by overpaying and trying to buy every free agent in the 2006-07 offseason, Hendry has left the Cubs hamstrung for cash and devoid of any superstar talent.

You or I could have done a better job.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 4:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You’re changing the goalposts here. You post here is arguing that Beltran is a great player who the Cubs should have signed in ‘05. Fine. I’m not arguing that that’s incorrect.

But our original exchange centered on two ideas: 1) That Beltran is/was significantly better overall player a degree that he is/was obviously on another plane of stardom than Soriano, and 2)That it was a mistake for the Cubs to invest in Soriano. Your reply isn’t addressing those questions.

On the first point, I’ve already stated that Beltran is a great player and I too had wanted the Cubs to sign him. I think it was a mistake that we didn’t. But purely on stats, at the time of each respective signing, there was little statistically to distinguish the two players. You correctly note that in OPS+ there was a difference. I had already argued that was the case. But Soriano exceeded Beltran in other catagories. As I argued—and as I think baseball prospectus backs up—when you take the players in totality, they more or less were equivalent. Beltran wasn’t on some higher plane of stardom (and he still isn’t, I don’t think).

But again, the broader point is that it was never an either/or situation. We didn’t NOT sign Beltran so we could sign Soriano. They were two separate events. It was a mistake NOT to sign Beltran. But that doesn’t mean it was therefore a mistake to sign Soriano. You don’t judge Soriano’s signing based upon the hypothetical of “if we could have Beltran instead.” Beltran wasn’t available, and is therefore irrelevant to how wise signing Sori was.

Based on the evidence available, I think it made sense to sign him (again, because his numbers were very similar to the Beltran, whom we passed on the previous year). And I still think that Soriano’s performance has justified the signing, whether or not he’s struggled in the postseason. He never was going to be a center-fielder, but do you really think we signed him for his defensive prowess?

Btw, fwiw there was some question at the time about how wise it was for Beltran to sign with the Mets, especially because he had atrocious career numbers at Shea, and because playing in the Juice Box tends to distort offensive numbers in a way that playing in, say, RFK stadium doesn’t.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 5:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sample sizes?

Beltran’s career numbers in Shea were probably 6 games. He only played 45 or so in the Juice Box in his entire career prior to the Mets deal, too.

Beltran was a Royal. And his average-year stats were better than Soriano’s career year stats.

I know that the organizational philosophy was different in 2004-5 than it was in 2006. I’m saying that the previous philosophy was stupidly stingy, and the 2006 philosophy was a halfassed attempt to make up for their prior sins, a strategy which, by necessity, required going out and getting what was available (Soriano) instead of investing those gigantic amounts of dollars in a player who would have helped the team exponentially more.

And finally, yes, Soriano was signed in part because we’d hoped he would be a CF. Otherwise, we could have gotten Carlos Lee for less money and more production as a corner OF.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 3, 2008 11:21 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

McPhail was still in charge when Beltran was a free agent

The organizational philosophy was different

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 2, 2008 5:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point!

That’s an even stronger point about why the whole argument about Beltran is silly.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 5:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soriano

isn’t as good as Manny, A-Rod, Pujols…….we know that. Soriano, i believe, is a better player than Beltran.

As far as i know Soriano has only lost one game for us, Washington when he dropped the fly ball in the 9th. On the other hand he also single-handily outscored the Padres or almost did one series if I’m not mistaken. He also once his 3 or 4 straight lead off HR. He is a streaky hitter who, when on, can carry a team. I just can’t see Beltran, removed from his Astros run, doing that.

Calling out Soriano for his playoff performance when talking about Beltran is wrong. If I’m not mistaken Beltran is a member of the Mets who collapsed last year and haven’t made the playoffs for two straight years. Soriano is a member of the Cubs who led the NL in wins and have made the playoffs for two straight years. Also you can’t single Soriano out for his performance in the playoffs, the whole team stunk it up not just him.

by nick_reny on Dec 4, 2008 12:16 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soriano isn't better than Beltran

Take a look at Al’s career stats then look at Carlos

They are remarkably close for this comparison. Beltran’s edge in a lot of offensive categories can be attributed to more AB’s, but the averages are about the same. Beltran has a better OBP and Soriano has a better SLG — Carlos wins on OPS. That’s on offense — defensively, Beltran is head and shoulders above Soriano — similar arms, but Beltran has much more range and sure hands.

And the Cubs-Mets comparison isn’t valid:
By that logic, Lonnie Smith was a better player than Ernie Banks, since Smith was on several WS teams and Banks never made the post-season. An individual player’s talent is not dependent on the other 24 around him.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2008 10:07 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's because he made such bad $$ decisions in prior years.

Hendry has overspent massively on medicore to above-average players. If Lee, Soriano, Marquis, and Fukudome were earning a salary that was even remotely correlated with their production level, the Cubs would have been able to keep Wood with no problems.

Hendry caused this, and he deserves all the criticism he’s going to face when this house of cards collapses.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:17 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's too early IMHO

to say they overspent on Fukudome’s contract…

by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The deal is 25% over.

If he doesn’t hit in 2009, it will be half over. At that point can we say that we overspent?

I can say with absolute certainty that they overspent by about $12M in 2008. I seriously doubt that Fukudome is going to give the Cubs $48M worth of production over the next three seasons.

He was the worst hitting position player in baseball in the second half, and one of the worst hitting non-pitchers that I have ever seen.

Are you seriously contending that he’s going to suddenly turn into a juggernaut and produce at a $16M/year level going forward?

I assume that he’ll improve, but I think that we can safely assume that the Cubs massively overpaid on this one.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 4:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But what makes it even more foolish is that the player would likely have accepted a discounted contract to begin with

AND he may have accepted arbitration which would limit the team’s exposure to one year. AND if he rejects arbitration we et compensated? I think this was a no-brainer and to top it off our brainless decision maker is quoted abut how he needs experienced relief pitcher.

Maybe Pinella will be right and Wood will perform poorly in 2009 but it’s the wrong decision. The GM has to set the tone here because Wood can help this club and he’s been one damn fierce competitor for this team and its fans. If i am choosing between Pinella and players like Wood then I would have canned Pinella the day after the season ended if that’s what it comes to.

Maybe Pinella will be right, but to me it underscores that we have a GM ho does not set the tone for this club. We need a lot of luck to win this way.

by DudeVf11 on Dec 2, 2008 10:07 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Woody

If he and Hendry are that good of friends, why would they not just offer arb and he would guarantee them he wouldn’t accept? This is dumb. Take the f’in draft pick Jimmy.

by uwbadger on Dec 1, 2008 8:15 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thats what i was surprised about

i was pretty sure there would be a gentlemans agreement that wood would not accept if offered so we could get the picks.. appearently we could not get that assurance

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 1, 2008 8:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Why couldn’t have that been worked out?

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:16 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm as mystified as the rest of you.

It makes no sense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

were you under the impression that it was a given we would at least offer??

for a team weak in the minors it makes no sense not to offer unless our finances are that tight…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 1, 2008 8:19 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, I thought there would be an offer.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 8:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It wouldn't make sense

for Wood to agree to such an agreement, as it limits his options and lowers his value to other teams, since they’d have to give up draft picks ANd a multi-year deal to get him.

Maybe the gentleman’s agreement was that they wouldn’t offer him arbitration as a thank you for his years of service.

I still think it sucks.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 1, 2008 8:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if he wanted to come back

he wouldn’t mind limiting his options, i’m guessing based on everything kerry’s said he wants to come back so badly that he’d accept no matter what and Hendry knows that and they just don’t want him….

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure, but

the sugestion was if Wood is leaving anyway, offer him arbitration and have him agree not to accept it as a favor to Hendry. If he isn’t planning on staying, he wouldn’t agree to such a deal, because it would limit his options.

DEJESUS!!!

by tomas21 on Dec 1, 2008 8:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right

my point is: it’s not that he’s “leaving anyway”

he doesn’t want to leave, he’s being forced out

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gentleman's agreement

It isn’t that I think Wood owes the Cubs anything or vice versa, but If I were Wood and Hendry even suggested such a Gentleman’s agreement I would spit in his face.

While being offered arbitration wouldn’t prevent him from getting a multiyear deal, it may impact which teams would sign him and for how much. So, basically, Hendry would be asking Wood to make a sacrifice, in terms of his finances (potential) and his new teams talent (definite)…

That sounds swell from a Cubs perspective but pretty crappy otherwise.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 9:00 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What exactly is Hendry's job again?

Oh, yeah, looking out for the interests of the Cubs. Wood’s a great guy, but Hendry’s not going to hamstring the team for one guy. (At least I hope not.)

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

And Wood's best interest...

is looking out for Wood. As it should be.

Never forget this is a business.

At some point, I hope his agent reminded him that there are flights to Chicago all the time to visit his wife’s family.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 1, 2008 9:04 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Should I be concerned that I just agreed with Worf?

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Come to the dark side...

It is your … destiny!

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 1, 2008 9:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um...

You would rather make me Hayden Christienwuss than James Earl Jones?

I likes my Darth Vader as a real man, thanks!

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 1, 2008 10:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That is fine

If Hendry believes the Cubs are better off without Wood and his Salary, that is his job, we can disagree, but in the end it is obviously his call.

My point is that I don’t believe that such a Gentleman’s agreement would ever happen, in part because I do believe in Hendry’s decency as a human being.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 9:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How does Wood on a one year deal hamstring the team?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

what happened to that $12 million dollar RF

that you thought had a pretty good season?

oh right… he’s now a platoon CF

the argument that we need a RF is as strong as the argument that we need a closer. Both are things we have capable people in place for if we chose

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:49 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 2, 2008 7:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ooh... the green rec'd box appears...

(it’s like the first time people saw fire, or the wheel) it’s mesmerizing.

by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:14 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To answer this question and your question above...

…if he accepts arb, and negotiations fall apart for whatever reason, the Cubs could be sacked with $9-10M in salary dollars for Wood next year, limiting their options to address their other areas of priority.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's not a terrible scenario.

Kerry Wood on a 1-year deal in the 9-10M range is an incredibly move-able contract.

Of course, you wouldn’t want to move the contract, because he’s an incredibly valuable player.

On the other hand, as we’ve just learned, Lee and Fukudome’s contracts are total albatrosses, which not only leave us with offensive ciphers at 2 very important offensive positions, but also leave us unable to retain our very-much-above-average closer, who was also the face of the franchise.

This is the equivalent of the late 1980’s Twins losing Kirby Puckett because they overpaid for Tim Teufel and Tim Laudner. Or the Brewers letting Braun walk because they’d overpaid for Gagne and Corey Koskie.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:36 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ummm no.....

I understand your point but comparing Lee to Tim Teufel and Corey Koskie doesn’t exactly make your point.

by rlpete on Dec 2, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OK, I'll spell it out.

“Losing Kerry Wood because we overpaid for Jason Marquis and Kosuke Fukudome is is the equivalent of the late 1980’s Twins losing Kirby Puckett because they overpaid for Tim Teufel and Tim Laudner. Or the Brewers letting Braun walk because they’d overpaid for Gagne and Corey Koskie.”

And for the record, Derrek Lee and Corey Koskie had identical OPS+ in 2008.

I think that we’d all be ecstatic if D-Lee could somehow replicate Koskie’s 2001 or 2003 season in 2009. But I don’t think he has it in him anymore.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 11:14 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You do realize...

you’re comparing an injury-prone Wood to one of the better hitters in the game and Puckett? Really? Wood does not compare with those two whatsoever.

And closer is not a position a team wants to overpay. You can’t compare HOF level talented positional players against a closer with 1 above average year.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 2, 2008 10:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not really surprising why this didn't happen.

Teams entertaining the idea of signing a new closer take into account the entire cost of the signing, not just the player salary. Not being saddled with type-A status means Kerry should be able to sign a richer deal for himself while still costing less than other type-A relievers on the market.

Honestly, I am glad Kerry didn’t agree to that because he deserves better than to be used by a franchise that doesn’t even have the brains to find a way to make him a half-decent offer.

by Cubinator on Dec 2, 2008 12:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anything I could say right now

would include words not suitable for this website. I’m incensed!

by storkysm on Dec 1, 2008 8:22 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am pissed...

… only good could have came from offering Woody arbitration, in my opinion.

Apparently the one negative, I guess, is if he signs it makes a tight payroll even tighter, prohibiting us from trading for peavy or signing Furcal or Ibanez. If we dont get 1 of those three players, and let go of wood for nothing, I am going to be furious.

None of this would of been a problem if we would of had an owner by now. (assuming he would be willing to increase payroll a bit)

by dlee25 on Dec 1, 2008 8:22 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO...

… none of this would have happened had Jim Hendry not had a guiding principle of spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So the 2 division championships were a mistake? 97 wins was a mistake? Edmonds was a mistake?

Yes, the payroll has expanded, and some questionable decisions (Fukudome) were made, but the performance of the team has gone up. If we can afford to spend money to make the team better, why not?

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

I don't buy it.

We got the championships by having a team that played the best ball from April 1st to September 30th. We played the best ball by having the right guys. We got the right guys by spending money.

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes...

… thats how we got the championships. But there were other ways to get there and Hendry has never shown any concept on how to do this. In addition to the “right guys” there were guys taking up a ton of salary and not earning their keep.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:42 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Show me a team in the top ten in payroll

that doesn’t have dead weight on the bench at any given time.

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the dead weight...

… isn’t on the bench, it was in right field, first base and the #5 spot in the rotation. Half the season there was also dead weight and wasted money playing left field.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marquis's contract may be "dead weight"

but he did a very respectable job for a 5 starter. Problem is, he’s paid like a top of the rotation guy.

by dlee25 on Dec 1, 2008 9:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup...

… a spot that Sean Marshall could have done well filling for 1/15th the price.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I won’t say that Hendry hasn’t made some bad calls. But he has also gotten results, which tend to be remembered longer.

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you'd be hard pressed...

… to find many GMs who have wasted more money than Hendry.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ned Colletti.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dave Littlefield.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bill Bavasi.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:02 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brian Sabean.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

These guys...

… have made mistakes, but not nearly on the order that Hendry has.
- Latroy Hawkins
- Mike Remlinger
- Bobby Howry
- Alfonso Soriano
- Shawn Estes
- Antonio Alfonseca
- Glendon Rusch (after resigning him)
- Jeromy Burnitz
- Juan Pierre
- Jacque Jones
- Jason Marquis
- Kosuke Fukudome

Sorry… these GMs listed have not wasted nearly the amount of money on a regular basis that Hendry has

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 10:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What a waste of time

You could make a list of bad signings/trades for EVERY GM who has ever been a GM.

by kanderber on Dec 1, 2008 10:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and I bet if you did...

… you wouldn’t come up with the depth of wasted money that Hendry has dolled out. There is a point here, its being illustrated right now with the Wood situation and it will further deteriorate as the Cubs are paying big dollars to guys who are old and bad, all given from Jim hendry.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 10:15 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't have the time or the desire, really...

to compare other GM’s bad signings, but suggesting that Hendry is the worst GM when talking about giving out bad contracts seems pretty absurd. All you have to do is look at the NL West to quickly find two worse GM’s (LA and SF).

by kanderber on Dec 1, 2008 10:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SF and LA

If you are going to say that Colletti and Sabean have dolled out more worse deals than Hendry then please back it up.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 10:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well considering the Dodgers

had Jones, Pierre, Penny and Schmidt all signed last season for high dollars, there is a good start. The only reason the Dodgers were good last season was because of the cheap talent from the farm that played for them and helped them get Manny. Their contract signings have been terrible.

by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 11:24 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

umm how about Barry Zito and his $126m?

….that might be the worst FA signing in baseball history that everyone saw coming…

Sabean is a horrible GM in every regard, it is amazing he is employed.

New sig currently under construction

by JB 23 on Dec 2, 2008 2:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A little overboard don't you say

Shawn Estes?

Howry was pretty good for 2 seasons.

Remlinger was actually pretty good overall.

by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 11:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 2, 2008 7:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I disagree, for this reason.

Jeremy Burnitz and Jacque Jones (and most of the other players on that list) were not signed in an attempt to make the Cubs a champion.

They were signed as placeholders, or in a halfhearted attempt to remedy a previous error. And most of the were given serious money, which hamstrung the Cubs from being able to contend for true difference-makers, like Vlad Guerrero or Carlos Beltran.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:39 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also,

We didn’t miss out on Mike Hampton for lack of trying.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We didn't go after some of these big-ticket FAs

because that was in the McPhail era and we chose Choi over Thome and Patterson over Beltran.

Both Dome and Soriano were considered to be the top FA at their position and/or batting type by many more people than Hendry.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 11:26 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Soriano...

has not been wasted $. And it’s too soon to say Fukudome’s contract was a waste. And Howry was very valuable for a couple of years, he’s a mixed bag that doesn’t belong on this list.

by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:18 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe we need to start a list...

of all the great moves he’s made. Bet it’s just as long… I’ll start it off:
Mark DeRosa
Jim Edmonds
Reed Johnson
Dempster back to the starting rotation
Ted Lilly

by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:21 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Aramis Ramirez is one of The Best Moves.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 2:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I think probably his best one, all things considered.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 3:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Getting something - anything! - out of Todd Hundley...

Even more amazing considering we ended up with Eric Karros

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 2, 2008 2:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How About...

… Derek Lee
Kenny Lofton
LBR for Sosa!

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 2, 2008 3:23 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only way to look at this...

…is to measure Hendry’s wins per dollars spent during his tenure vs the other guys.

I don’t know what that would come out to, but I would imagine Hendry would have spent quite a bit per win. The Yankees are off the chart, so they aren’t a good example, but the other clubs would be a fair comparison.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:20 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doing this would be difficult

because it costs more money to go from 90 wins to 100 than it does to go from 80 wins to 90. There’d be some difficult mathematical curve involved that I can hardly wrap my brain around.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 9:24 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You'd also need to compare

the relative farm systems of the teams given the time the GM took over.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 9:24 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hendry was in charge of our farm system.

That failing is also his failing.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:40 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since 1994...

…to be exact. And, you have to hope this takes a turn for the better, with the guys he brought on 2-3 years ago. If not, you could very well see a period of rebuilding if this core group doesn’t bring home a championship by 2010.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 10:48 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Measure it over his tenure...

…and see what you come up with. Also, you have to factor in no trades and backloaded deals because they impact the flexibility to move those players and to improve your club.

Hendry went for broke and I think some of this was the Trib telling him to go ahead because they were selling. The problem comes in from the lack of player development over a long period of time, and that forces you to overpay for guys.

Then window is short, and if it doesn’t happen, Hendry will be out the door (in a couple years) along with the bulk of this core group.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:30 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If only he'd gone for broke with the right guys.

For the money we’re paying Soriano and Fukudome, we could have had Beltran and Vlad Guererro. Seriously.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:41 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't blame him for...

…Fukudome, because he was on a lot of teams rader screens, and he was rated high by many. Fukudome could also turn things around and be a solid player.

The problem I have had with Hendry is how he has chosen the pieces in putting together a puzzle and it has been flawed since he caught lightning in a bottle with his 03 moves. Since that time, he has virutally forgotten why that club has successful – balance of speed, power and average and very good one and two hitters to set the table.

It’s one thing to have a flawed philosophy of scouting and developing young talent, but it magnifies the problem when you aren’t adept at identifying the right pieces to acquire on the major league level. Hendry has gotten better (with help), but the check book has been the main reason they have had success in the short term, and it has also made it even more critical to make solide choices this offseason.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 10:53 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the short term...

…you are correct. But, relying too much on FA (and less on internal development) eventually catches up with you, and it looks like Hendry has hit the ceiling in regards to spending and you still have holes to fill.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:17 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Everything comes with a cost.

The Cubs went 66-96 in 2006. Then they won the division the next two years.

Here’s the question, and I’m going to lay it on the line for all of you who want to complain about the backloaded deals: would you trade those two division championships for the financial flexibility to resign Wood right now?

by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 9:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

you don't have to though

Gregg’s going to make 3-4 million in arb, Wood would’ve made say 7-9

we couldn’t have sliced 3 million off payroll somewhere? 3-5 million????

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:30 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Most of the roster is either pre-arb...

…or has a no-trade clause/10-and-5 rights. There are only three players you can trade who don’t have an NTC and reduce payroll, and only one of them (Marquis) is actually a less valuable player than Kerry Wood.

So without discussing the Cubs’ total offseason budget for ALL acquisitions (it doesn’t seem to be large) your statement is absurd – if the Cubs have a $10 million offseason budget, $5 million is a hell of a chunk of that.

by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

then why spend

3-4 on a completely replaceable arm like Gregg?

i don’t disagree with your point but the signing of Gregg makes no sense under that arrangement either

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

should've said trade

not signing, add in giving up a valuable trade chip you could’ve used alongside Marquis to pare back salary instead of adding salary with that chip…

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

PRECISELY!

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Dec 1, 2008 9:38 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.....and give up a prospect......

…….at the same time!

"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns

by tville on Dec 1, 2008 9:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Gregg is above the replacement level as a reliever.

I don’t know why people around here seem to hate him so much. He’s not a bad pitcher.

by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 9:39 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

because

his k’s are dropping, bb’s are rising and his hr rate seems flukily aided by pitching in large ballparks in the NL East

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's not that Gregg is so bad.

It’s
1) that he is precisely the kind of pitcher Lou can’t stand; Gregg is Michael Wuertz Lite.
2) that we overpaid to get him seemingly just to make a statement re: Kerry Wood.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and Wuertz

could fill that role minus the 3-4 million

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:53 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Except that Wuertz is one more casualty of the

Lou-Doesn’t-Like-Him-So-We-Throw-Him-Away malady.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a middle-of-the-road reliever.

In two years as closer, he’s been just past the post in saves in the NL (8th in the league both times), doesn’t have a good, but not a bad ERA or ERA+, is moving from a a pitcher’s park to a hitter’s one (out of his control), is BR has him comparable to Turnbow and Howry! Shoot me!

I think the cost-benefit analysis of either (1) keeping Wood instead of this schmuck, or (2) saving the cash/trade for a RF/leadoff/2B/SS is greater. I don’t hate the guy, but I sure as shit am not going to have any faith in him.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 1, 2008 9:58 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two weeks ago....

….everyone wanted to pick up Blanco’s insane $3M option, because $3M was “pocket change” to the Cubs.

Now, even after refusing Blanco’s option, $3M apparently cost us Kerry Wood.

Jim Hendry has built an incredibly expensive, and yet incredibly imbalanced and mentally weak, roster.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:43 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you really believe 3 M cost us Kerry?

I can’t see it.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 11:27 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How can that really be argued?

Based upon precedent, Kerry would have probably gotten a 1-year deal worth about 8-9M in arbitration – and based on Hendry’s MO, it would probably be signed just prior to the hearing.

By refusing to offer arbitration, Hendry is foregoing a valuable return – (2 #1 picks!!), thereby essentially saying that he cannot risk Wood accepting, because even a 1-year deal worth $8-9M is unacceptably high.

However, he acquired Kevin Gregg, a lesser pitcher, who will command about $3M less in arbitration.

This is all about dollars. I just can’t shake the memory of Daryl Ward, of all people, taking Kevin Gregg deep on a 3-run game-winner in spacious Pro Player Stadium.

Gregg lost the closer role for the Marlins. Wood was nails for the Cubs for over a decade, and had finally found his role.

This whole deal stinks. And what’s worse, I could begrudgingly accept it if Hendry’s spending spree had brought the Cubs a lynchpin superstar. But it didn’t.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You are assuming $ is at back of this.

The more I look at this, the more that seems unlikely. We still have money to spend, otherwise we wouldn’t hear the Cubs connected to Furcal, Ibanez, etc.

If the Fish valued Ceda enough to get us Gregg, we probably could have traded Ceda for Hermida and kept Wood.

Instead, Hendry traded Ceda for Gregg and will sign Ibanez and/or Furcal.

Furthermore, if you go back to the interviews Kerry had after the Gregg trade, he said he knew he’d likely be gone at the end of 2008. How does he know that if the reason is really financial? At the beginning of ‘08, we had no idea Dempster would cost this much to re-sign, we had no idea we’d need to buy another LH OF, and Kerry had no idea he’d be healthy all season long and command 8 M or more.

What Kerry knew back then was what management felt about him, for whatever reason, why he didn’t fit with Lou’s vision of the team.

D98, you’ve made some clever points, but all in all you are assuming what you’re arguing – that “Spendry” is all at fault.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 2, 2008 1:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is a false premise

You are posing an either-or when I’ll say that Hendry got there through foolhardy spending and could have done it other ways. Hendry only knows one way to do things, and its by spending money. His south side GM counterpart does things very differently, spends less money and has a world series championship to show for it.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup..

… because of the backloaded contracts. Now watch the Cubs payroll take off while they have to cut loose guys like Wood.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:44 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yea it is sad really.

Hendry is a known as a “players GM”. He’s really good to people and knows how to deal with them. Hendry is not know as much as a buisness man which is evident by all of his contracts. All of the long, backloaded contracts are really going to hamstring us in the future, unless the next owner has an unlimited budget.

by dlee25 on Dec 1, 2008 9:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can win a championship with Wood...

…as long as you shore up other areas that need shoring up.

I realize Wood is an emotional deal, but I don’t think he would have been the “lynch pin” to them winning it all.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:23 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Once again......

the Cubs prove to all how truly f$%%@@&^^ed up they really are…………..

by plenz on Dec 1, 2008 8:24 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is what I don't get....
As for Wood, Cubs general manager Jim Hendry said last week that it is unlikely the team will re-sign Wood, because it could not offer him a multiyear deal. Wood will be courted by several teams in need of bullpen help. But by offering arbitration, the Cubs would receive compensation if he signs elsewhere. Wood, 31, saved 34 games in 2008, his first season as a closer.

ARBITRATION ENDS, MORE TIMES THAN NOT, IN A ONE-YEAR DEAL.

Why can’t Hendry just go out and be honest with us and say we can’t re-sign him due to budget restrictions or something like that?

SERIOUSLY.

What the hell is going on? What was really the issue?

SO NOW,

A) We don’t even get draft picks for compensation
B) We’re going to watch Kerry Wood continue to excel at the closer’s role elsewhere
C) Marmol turns out that he is better suited as a setup man.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:27 PM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Hendry Did Say That...

… by saying that there were other priorities.

We can still work out a deal with Woody. My guess is by the third or fourth week of January.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

exactly

This does’t mean we can’t sign Wood. The old deadlines no longer apply. Now he can see what he’s offered when teams know their draft picks are safe, then his agents can still come back to the Cubs if the offers aren’t that high.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Dec 1, 2008 8:35 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I feel as if, now, it's pretty much a given that another team ponies up

some cash for him.

At this juncture I am burying any hope of him returning, that way I won’t be as disappointed when he is sitting at a press conference with another team’s GM.

I hope there’s a method to this madness.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:40 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the offers

will be higher now that draft picks aren’t at stake

plus we basically just said we don’t want you on a 1 year, 7 million deal. If the offers are likely to be higher now and we wouldn’t even go for a 1 year deal, then its over….This is the end. You’re in denial if you think otherwise

i can’t believe we couldn’t squeak 4 million into the payroll (i say 4 because we added likely 3 from Gregg AND gave up Ceda), this is ridiculous

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is precisely correct.

By declining to offer arbitration, Hendry is saying in absolute terms that the Cubs have no intention of signing Kerry Wood at any price.

It’s a horrible, borderline insane decision, made all the more infuriating by the fact that it was completely caused by Hendry’s stupid spending spree on proven mediocrities.

Now we have a remarkably expensive team with no real superstars, and as of today, no clubhouse leaders. Hendry should be fired.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It seems to me that that isn't a reasoning.

Wood wants to play here…..

Money is not an issue and neither is a multi year deal.

I just feel as if there is something going on that we’re not aware of.

I hope I’m wrong.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Perhaps You Statement...

…about us not being aware of everything is true. Perhaps Piniella said, “cut ties… I’m through babysitting”.

Honestly, though, I think Kerry and his agent was looking to maximize and Hendry couldn’t accommodate. All that we can hope for is that the value that Kerry puts on the non-tangibles outweighs any monetary and years offers he gets.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:41 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think youre wrong on C

He’s gonna be lights out, the next Krod. Im sure they had the same reservations about him replacing Percival a few years ago, but that worked out well….their stats are fairly similar through their first 2 years as strictly set up men

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 1, 2008 8:36 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Marmol will be a great closer, but...

I actually think the Cubs will be a bit stronger in the 9th inning. My concern, in essence, is that we lose Marmol. He was a tremendous weapon in the 7th and 8th to get out of a jam and get to the closer.

I would bet that marmol pitched more “high pressure” innings than Wood did. So, we now replace Marmol with Gregg, which is clearly a step down.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 8:43 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

correct, but my point was regarding his ability to close

maybe he’s young enough to do some 4 out saves

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 1, 2008 8:45 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I worry about him going through that stretch in the second half last year....

..AS the closer next year.

There were times he couldn’t get anyone out. And during that strecth it sure wasn’t a fluke.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Indeed

The one way I can see this whole mess NOT significantly weakening the BP is if Marmol is used as a closer the way Rivera was in years past, with 4, 5 and even some 6 out saves.

we shall see

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 8:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats the thing

We know what Wood can do, Marmol it is uncertain.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 9:31 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marmol has not been good in 2-inning performances.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:49 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is one strange offseason

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 1, 2008 8:31 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's the inevitable result of Hendry's spending spree.

It would have been nice if the spending spree had resulted in at least one star player, but, there you go.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:50 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

asinine

this whole thing is asinine

i’m so angry right now

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:38 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My sales manager does some strange things...

…and sometimes I sit back in awe that he actually foresaw an angle that wound up working.

I have to trust that JH knows what he is doing and there is a strategy involved.

"Just win tonight" - derv

by derv on Dec 1, 2008 8:39 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See My Thoughts...

… in the other post, if interested.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 1, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's ridiculous

sorry because i’m in a heightened state of emotion here, but the difference between a team giving up 1 draft pick late in the 1st round isn’t going to be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in his offers. It’s just not. If a team was going to give Wood a 3 year deal, they were going to likely give it regardless of the single draft pick.

All this does is guarantee we get zero compensation for him

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um.

How do you figure? First round draft picks are very, very valuable.

by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 8:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you're telling me

because teams have been acting this way for years, all of the sudden it’s going to change? Every big time closer that’s been available in FA has signed somewhere he hasn’t just gone unnoticed and left without a job. That’s the implication here that if we offer him arb, NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE IS GOING TO OFFER HIM A CONTRACT?

really?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 8:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Um.

You said:

the difference between a team giving up 1 draft pick late in the 1st round isn’t going to be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in his offers.

And I disagreed. That is not the same as saying:

That’s the implication here that if we offer him arb, NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE IS GOING TO OFFER HIM A CONTRACT?

Kerry Wood is more valuable as a FA to another team if he doesn’t require draft pick compensation. That doesn’t make him valueless to another team if he does require draft pick compensation.

by cwyers on Dec 1, 2008 9:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right

my point was it’s not going to be a SUBSTANTIAL difference in the level of interest he generates.

as in if we did offer him arb, no one goes near him and if we didn’t offer him arb, he’s flooded with offers

he was likely going to get a contract somewhere, the only reason we’re not offering him arb is because we clearly don’t want him back for some reason

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:33 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So valuable that the Cub

don’t try and acquire them.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 9:57 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The compensation means nothing

Hendry doesn’t want to commit the $8 Mil right now.

by rlpete on Dec 1, 2008 11:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Poor Gregg

Gregg will be a major loser in this fiasco I fear. I can very easily see the Wrigley faithful never warming to him and booing him mercilessly at the slightest sign of trouble. Cub fans know that he is the guy who replaced Wood, so booing him will be the closest they can come to booing Hendry.

I fear the worst.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 8:45 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its gonna be ugly

imagine the first game blowing HR he gives up

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 1, 2008 8:46 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Absolutely

The poor guy is going to have to be perfect

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 8:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll lay off the guy....

he didn’t choose to come here.

But if he turns out to be a 2009 Bob Howry you can expect that he’ll need a few bodyguards.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 8:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a fucking Cub now

You root for the uniform. You want to root for Woody, you go root for whatever team he lands on.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 1, 2008 9:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

damn... Im agreeing w/ Wolf

but its true. As much as I love Kerry Wood, its the front of the uniform not the back that I root for.

Plus if the Cubs would actually win some playoffs games next year…. I think much could be forgiven.

by Madison Cub Fan on Dec 2, 2008 12:46 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Easy...

I am in no way saying that I will boo, or do I think that anyone else should boo Gregg. I agree with you, I have been frankly sickened by the mean spiritedness of some Wrigley Field ticket holders in recent years, particularly the venom spewed at Jacques Jones.

My point was simply that I fear that Gregg could become a victim to that same sort of wrath because he is replacing Wood in essence.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 2, 2008 11:24 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you were measuring by this board sure...

But I’m not sure this is exactly a scientific sample of the feelings of average Cub fans.

I suspect that most people will notice that Gregg is wearing a Cubs uniform. As Worf noted, that should be good enough for all of us. Hell, if we can cheer for Jim Edmonds…

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wrigley Boo-birds

Cub fans are pretty smart and, increasingly, harsh. Sure, Edmonds was cheered, but only after he started to hit. Hawkins and J. Jones are examples of two players who the fans never warmed to. In part this was because of their struggles on the field, but the boo birds were always fiercer than their play warranted, especially for Jones.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 9:48 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cub fans aren't as smart as we like to think they are

A lot are, but some WOO! are mindless WOO! automatons WOO! that think Harry Caray invented baseball and if you WOO! don’t throw it back WOO! you’re committing a crime against nature.

WOO!

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 9:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i hate to say it

but as a fan who grew up far from Wrigley I always envisioned Cubs fans being really smart, good baseball fans

unfortunately the more i get out to Wrigley the more i realize that belief is like believing in Santa

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 1, 2008 9:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Say, who is singing today?

WOO!

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 1, 2008 10:05 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jones got a raw deal

But Hawkins provided poor effort, poor attitude and blamed everyone else for his troubles.

I am embarrassed by how fans treated Jones. I will defend how they treated Hawkins.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 1, 2008 10:17 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Jones was a quality player and did put up two good seasons here if you look at his end-of-season numbers. I don’t think he deserved the treatment he got from the fans, at all. I liked him while he was here…

by AeroZach on Dec 2, 2008 8:52 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed.

The reputation of the Bleacher Bums notwithstanding, I had never thought of Cubs fans as being cousins of Philly fans in terms of smarts and behavior. But ever since the aire of expectation set in about the Cubs winning since about 2003, I’m noticing more and more how many idiots are in our ranks.

Maybe I’m thin-skinned, but it’s embarressing at times.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 1, 2008 10:27 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For heavens sake.

I certainly hope that does not happen. That would be childish. If the guy is in a Cub uniform on opening day you cheer for him just like the other players in a Cub uniform.

by sue369 on Dec 2, 2008 11:15 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't understand at best...

To see your idol player whom you have grown up watching be cast aside by his loyal organization can make even a grown man choke up...We'll miss you #34!

by Chanman25 on Dec 1, 2008 8:49 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Utterly

mad.

Thats all I have to say.

Screw off Hendry.

by MattHaggard on Dec 1, 2008 8:53 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2003 and bullpens in the playoffs

I would argue that a strong bullpen is one of the absolute keys to success in the playoffs and the Cubs have just compromised that.

In 2003 both the Cubs and BoSox were done in by weak bullpens. The Cubs’ pen blew game 1. Then in Game 6, imagine if a Marmol and Wood were waiting and ready in the pen… It is much easier to imagine Baker going to get Prior if he had a better option than Farnsworth or Remlinger. The same was true for Pedro in Boston.

The fact is that the Cubs are taking a huge risk. No, the bullpen wasn’t a problem in the last two years, but, in a close series, the bullpen becomes huge, and we are weaker there now than at the end of the season. Stupid.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 8:56 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn’t we have to be leading late in a post-season game for the bullpen to be a factor? (Sorry, I had to point it out, pls don’t hate me, etc.)

I want Wood back as much as anybody, but there are other issues that need addressed too.

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 8:59 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure

My point is that you don’t rob peter to pay paul.

Furthermore, I subscribe to the belief that the Cubs just played like crap this October. Good pitchers pitched like garbage, good hitters were horrible, and good fielders looked like little leaguers.

This team needs to regain confidence in teh post season. I am not trying to be a chicken little, but, imagine if the Cubs blow a lead in game one of next year’s playoffs, how much harder will that be to come back from?

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 9:03 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If your only concern is the post-season,

which is a viewpoint I share (we have a great team, they’ve proved they can win in the regular season, nearly all of them are coming back at this point), why not lay off some payroll, see how spring training and the first part of the season go, and add a closer as needed before the end of July? This is baseball, after all, and thinking too far ahead can and will get you in trouble.

I have to believe there are still too many variables on December first to go freaking out about losing one guy, no matter how much that one guy may mean to the team and the fans.

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:13 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Because...

… adding a proven closer at the trade deadline is nearly impossible. Look at Fuentes this year. Everyone new that he would leave Colorado. They seemed willing to trade him, but they couldn’t find a deal.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 1, 2008 9:50 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll take my chances

in order to get some of the other problems dealt with. The market will be different that time next year.

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:56 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh, can't say I wasn't surprised

I had a feeling this would happen once it became clear Wood wasn’t a priority and the FA market was flooded. It created a situation that would’ve increased the likelihood of arbitration being accepted. This is a perfect storm of sorts where we are likely to see teams acting a bit differently, particularly in regards to the glut of closers on the market, and where some arms might’ve jumped at arbitration for fear of waiting too long. I think, as much as I disagree with it, that Wood fit in that group (whereas, Fuentes/K Rod seems to fit in a group where someone will likely shell out). I disagree with it, and to be honest, I think I’d rather chance on Wood for a 3 year deal than the other two.

As noted, I disagree with this. I still think we needed another strong pen arm.

____________

The suggestion has been made that we could get Peavy if we simply trimmed Marquis’ salary (Van Dyck article loosely suggest that). If that’s the case, I honestly would rather see Wood return (assuming we can move Marquis) than trading for Peavy and leaving, IMO) a question in the pen. That said, I doubt it is as simple as Van Dyck makes it sound.

by toonsterwu on Dec 1, 2008 8:59 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The question here is -

if Jim Hendry is shopping for a LH bat – does the $ for that bat require dumping Marquis first?

In other words, do we have 10 M to spend or 10 M + whatever we don’t pay Marquis next year?

Or do we have nothing left and can’t make any moves until payroll is cut?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:06 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A gentleman's agreement

Also could have had issues with the players union and MLB. Other teams don’t like that kind of thing.

Real world, people.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 1, 2008 9:01 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Real world is right.

Things like this do happen. Who’s to say how many other teams have done things like this with players? We just don’t know.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 1, 2008 9:11 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is horseshit

I don’t by this garbage about payroll restraints. All the perspective owners that made bids on this team know what they are getting into. The stadium is packed, most loyal bunch of fans, a treasure of a ballpark, and a team that has won the last two years. So they will come on board and cut payroll, I don’t think so. What are we talking here, another 8M on top of 135M for the team, cut me a freaking break. So we eliminate a closer that saved 34 games, add Bob Howry’s brother and now have a closer who never closed for the whole season before so according to Jimbo" can work out a multi year deal somewhere else"
All that favor Wood leaving tell me how this makes the Cubs a better team?
 If the Cubs go after Ibanez and sign him, and lose our first round pick, wow that would just top it off.
 It is funny Maddux, Grace and Wood all shown the door, and you know what it was never better when they left.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 9:27 PM CST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

It appears Hendry has a hidden agenda....

Unless Jim is confident that he can pull the Peavy or Roberts deal off, this just doesn’t make sense. We aren’t that broke. Saving up for a platoon right fielder over Woody is just bull. Jim knows their are an excess of closers that aren’t needed and this is the worst time for Woody to be on the market. Woody knows that too. Come back for one more year and we’ll see what happens. If we don’t land one of roberts or peavy and use up that remaining cash this is bullshit.

by cliffyhoops03 on Dec 1, 2008 9:30 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 2, 2008 9:25 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anti-wood

The more I think about it, the more I think that this was actually a baseball decision and that the Cubs brass has effectively given up on Wood.

Consider that Gregg will make ~$4million or so. Wood would probably have signed for $9-10 million. Consider that the Cubs gave up Ceda, who as a cheap and promising arm has a value of at least a few million if only as trade bait.

This means that keeping Wood instead of Gregg would actually have been only about a 3-4million dollar expense, at most, possibly more. I don’t care how tight finances are, but that is chump change. So I have to think that this was more about baseball than $

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 2, 2008 11:37 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And if that's the case...

… it was still a mistake, because the Cubs are a worse team with Gregg replacing Wood in the bullpen.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 2, 2008 1:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We Don't Know Yet...

…where the other $4M is going. As of right now, it doesn’t look good. Let’s see what it looks like at the beginning of ST.

As an example, maybe the tandem of Guzman-Shark-Gregg-Marmol+$4M is better than Shark-Marmol-Howry-Wood. Again, depending on where that $4M is spent…

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 2, 2008 1:54 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe.

I do like Guzman’s arm. If he’s healthy, he could be a real sleeper.

I might even like him as the setup guy to Marmol, with Gregg and Shark before him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 2, 2008 1:55 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I Wonder If...

… the Shark doesn’t even make the team and is given time in AAA to fine tune his final pitches to become a starter.

And, if the Cubs land Peavy, I wonder if Shark gets that chance if Harden is traded or walks at the end of the season.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 2, 2008 2:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lou said on CTL

that Shark has 3 pitches. He also said Shark will be given a chance to start this spring.

by sue369 on Dec 2, 2008 3:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

three...

if you count hitting the backstop on the fly every now and then.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 2, 2008 3:12 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They don't call him Nuke Laloosh for nothing.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 2, 2008 3:22 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

I fully agree, but the more I think about this, my disagreement with Hendry is about baseball talent, not his previous financial decisions.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 2, 2008 2:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think one reason a lot of us.....

are upset (including me) is due to the fact that these “other priorities” don’t seem to be leading us anywhere / involving players that would be extremely useful to us, i.e. Mark Teahen.

by EJThunder on Dec 1, 2008 9:30 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

true

and until we know how that $ is spent (assuming it is), it’s hard to tell if this will be a net positive or not…

by digitalbenjamin on Dec 2, 2008 2:26 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is on Jim Hendry

For those of you searching for a reason behind this, its on the GM. Jim Hendry has NO money to spend. He is now reaping what he sewed, spending an inane amount of money on too many players and hedging his bets in the early years by back loading the contracts. Now its coming home to roost.

Because of this all, the Cubs not only are going to let Wood go, but Hendry had to trade away a very promising prospect in Jose Ceda to have a replacement for Wood. Then they lost out on two draft picks because the Cubs can’t afford the risk that Wood accepts arbitration. Hendry’s foolish spending and contract sturcture has cost the Cubs not only Kerry Wood but a prospect and two draft picks before the 2nd round.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:30 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know about you,

But I feel Division Championships are Fool’s Gold if that’s all a team can achieve.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 2, 2008 12:10 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 NLDS sweeps = exactly nothing.

I’m sure you’re enjoying how your official 2007 and 2008 NL Central Champs! hats look on your mantle, but frankly, there are 6 division champions every season, and it’s not that big of a deal. No one in the organization is particularly happy with how 2007 and 2008 went.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 10:54 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True, but...

Hendry did put the Cubs in a position to win the Division titles in 07 and 08, which is an essential step in getting us all the hat that we do want to place on our mantles.

I am not sure that I see any moves that I wish Hendry had made instead of moves he did make that would have improved our chances of having a WS champion right now.

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 2, 2008 11:29 AM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 moves in particular.

Hendry could have signed Vladimir Guerrero to play RF, and Carlos Beltran to play CF, for almost exactly the same money he’s currently paying Kosuke Fukudome to play RF and Alfonso Soriano to “play” LF.

MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown

by D98 on Dec 2, 2008 1:28 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

but using Wood as the sacrificial lamb is garbage.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The fact of the matter is that no one outside the Cubs organization knows how much $$$ they have to spend.

In fact, Jim Hendry may not know until ownership is decided.

Meanwhile there are plenty of things about the Wood situation that stinks beyond just the monetary explanation.

This may not be on Jim Hendry at all. It has been speculated and it must be answered if this is on Lou not wanting Wood back.

Kerry did say that he thought this was coming all year long. There was no reason to think it was coming back when Fukudome was hitting and it didn’t look like we’d need to add another LH RF.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:09 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What I meant is that

if it was just about the money, it wouldn’t have made sense for Kerry to think money would be a problem in the first half of the season.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 1, 2008 10:10 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You can't look back though and blame the money on Hendry dmlichte

We had this dam thing locked up last year and we choked. The money was well spent. All we can do now is look ahead and make sure the face of the franchise and a dominant closer is ahead of a left handed outfielder that hits .245 with 60rbi’s in K.C. Prioritize Jimmy Boy, this is crazy.

by cliffyhoops03 on Dec 1, 2008 9:34 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can do whatever I want

and I think as we see the Cubs now unable to afford someone like Wood or an upgrade in right field, it becomes clear that Hendry is fiscally inept and only knows how to spend money. Last year was not money well spent. It was not a choke job. It was, for the second year in a row, an offense not meant to succeed in the playoffs against top notch starters. It is a team with not enough left handed hitting. It is an all-or-nothing offense and offenses like that do not tend to do well come playoff time.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 9:47 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So,

given that we can’t undo any of that, you want to spend what money we have left on keeping a closer rather than fixing those problems?

by znohitter on Dec 1, 2008 9:51 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope...

Hendry couldn’t keep Wood. He made the decision he had to. There was really no way, short of a new owner coming in tomorrow and upping the payroll to $160-170M or short of someone taking Marquis and Soriano off the Cubs hands, that the Cubs could keep Wood and improve RF and some bullpen holes. I would not have kept Wood.

But the point remains that Hendry was forced to make this decision by his foolish spending.

by dmlichte on Dec 1, 2008 10:01 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs