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Should Cubs season ticket holders have their license revoked for scalping?

A Cubs season ticket holder has been scalping nearly all his season tickets for the past several seasons as a business. He sells his tickets at prices over face value, does not have a broker's license, and does not report this income to the IRS. 

Now, as a general practice, all MLB teams claim that this type of behavior may result in having your season tickets revoked. And, with a simple Google search, one can find instances of other teams such as the Yankees or Red Sox, enforcing these policies and revoking season tickets.

The Cubs used to enforce this practice, however the creation of their own scalping business, Wrigley Field Premium Ticket Services Inc. makes things a little interesting.

Of note, former White Sox player Eric Soderholm, who has been running a ticket scalping business since 1985 or so, was taken to court by the Cubs in the past.

*453 Naturally, the Cubs plan was met with hostility. The existence of Premium seemed to contradict the Cubs stance of
ticket scalping.
[FN134] Traditionally, the Cubs were against all forms of ticket scalping. If security reports indicated that a
ticket holder was reselling his or her tickets at an inflated value, the Cubs would send a letter warning the ticket holder that if
the practice did not stop, they would be in jeopardy of having their seat license revoked.
[FN135] This was not all talk. The
Cubs did indeed go as far as revoking season tickets of persons found engaging in the practice.
[FN136] Yet, the existence of
Premium seemed to catapult the Cubs directly into the same secondary market they forbade their season ticket holders from
entering. [FN137]

[FN135]. Solerholm v. Chi. Nat'l League Ball Club, Inc. 587 N.E.2d 517, 518 (Ill. App. Ct. 1st Dist. 1992).


[FN136]. Siporin, supra note 52, at 739-40; see generally Solerholm, 587 N.E.2d at 518. The Cubs revoked all but six of the
plaintiff's eighteen season tickets after it became known that he was engaging in ticket scalping by reselling his tickets at
prices above face value.

*Loyola Consumer Law Review 2006 Student Article
435 TICKET SCALPING: SAME OLD PROBLEM WITH A BRAND NEW TWIST
Jonathan Bell

So, here are my questions to you:

1. Is the scalping of season tickets as a business, generally accepted as common practice?

2. Or, should these kind of scalpers, operating without a license, be alerted to the Cubs Ticket Office?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 24 comments

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The Cubs scalp

so anyone else should be allowed.

by rlpete on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It's different now because...

… of MLB’s partnership with StubHub, where you can now LEGALLY sell your tickets at a premium, with the blessing of the team and MLB. Reporting anyone NOW is pointless.

I can’t answer whether this income should be reportable to the IRS or not; I am not an accountant nor tax attorney.

And no, I have never heard of anyone having season tickets revoked.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2008 8:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yes Al...

If you go through StubHub, you are legally re-selling your tickets, through MLB… and MLB is getting it’s cut. And, you are to follow the pricing guidelines set forth by each individual state regulations.

However, if you are in essence selling them “on the street,” should the same grace apply?

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good question.

The Cubs and MLB have essentially said that they wink at overface price sales — but only if you use their approved outlet, StubHub (or the “Replay” ticket service offered by them and other teams via their own websites).

“Street” sales are a bit more murky. I really don’t know how they’d view that now.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2008 8:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also...

… you don’t have to follow any “pricing guidelines” if you sell on StubHub. You can price as the market will bear. Too high and you won’t sell.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 10, 2008 8:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well... there are individual state regulations

If they are adhered to or not remains to be seen, but they do exist:

http://www.stubhub.com/help-top-questions-seller/

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the common fan/ticket holder has every right to re-sell at market value.

However, when a season ticket holder makes scalping a “business,” and is operating without a broker’s license… that’s where I question everything.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

in this instance, what's a "broker license" really?

All it means is someone paid a fee to someone down in Springfield to get a piece of paper that says it’s okay for them to sell tickets at obscene prices. I really don’t see much difference between them and scalpers.

I would agree there is a difference between the common fan who lucks into some extra tickets and wants to score some beer money versus the professional scalpers/brokers but I don’t think you were making that distinction.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 10, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have been reading

your soap box speeches for a while. You are broadcasting your own sour grapes feelings.

It is 2008. Baseball – and all professional sports for that matter – are at the beck and call of the free market in our land. Supply and demand. You probably could have gotten in on some season tickets – they were still available after the 2003 season – even in small packages. But you didn’t, and now you complain.

When the cubs suck again, the demand will meet your financial expectations.

In 2006, I couldn’t give my tickets away. That’s how it goes.

by The E-Man on Dec 10, 2008 8:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Whoa, laying the smack DOWN!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 10, 2008 10:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you buy commodities futures or stock,

and then sell them for a profit, congratulations! Report the gains on your taxes and give yourself a pat on the back. If you get a season ticket, and then sell some tickets for a profit, you should do the exact same thing. Once you buy the tickets, they are yours. The Cubs shouldn’t have a say.

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 10, 2008 8:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I really don't care if it's "legal" by way of some

stupid law passed by corrupt politicians. The ONLY thing politicians care about is collecting taxes on everything. I sell some of my tickets to a ticket broker. He’s free to charge what he wants and gives me cash.
for those of you who don’t like it, pony up the cash for the tickets yourself. Mine went up to $7000 per seat for 2009. They are my property once I pay for them and I then have the right to sell them, use them or waste them as I wish.
Sackman, quit your whining.

by cubswin on Dec 10, 2008 8:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hear Hear!

Agreed.

You can bet Sack Man wasn’t whining during 2005 or 2006, when he could get cheap or free tickets.

Of course its a double-edged sword. The demand goes up when there are better players and a better product – so do you whine about the team when it sucks – but you can get cheap tickets? Or, whine about the high prices and scalpers when the team is a winner?

by The E-Man on Dec 10, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I've happily payed the price to share season tix for the past two years.

Two of the most memorable seasons in recent Cubs history…. and I was there to witness many of the magical moments.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Dec 10, 2008 9:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

From your postings over time

it doesn’t appear as if “happily paying…” is being honest on your part, I would surmise.

by The E-Man on Dec 10, 2008 9:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My understanding

I checked into this when moving to Illinois a few years ago. I knew as a non-Illinois resident I was not subject to certain laws.

The situation today is that anyone in Illinois can resell tickets for above face value through controlled outlets like ebay and stubhub. You don’t need a broker’s license. The buyer has recourse through the law, and the buyer accepts that by using these outlets. However, there are two types of taxes that may apply. First, as noted on ebay when you list a ticket, sellers of tickets to events within the city limits of Chicago are liable to collect/pay sales tax on those transactions (I assume for the amount above face value). Second, whether or not you have a “business” the income from resale of the tickets is taxable as personal income. This is the first year I have actually made more from selling tickets than I have spent. I do not have season tickets, but ended up not using most of the 9-pack I bought at the beginning of the year. I’ll be consulting an accountant about how to properly handle this income.

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Dec 10, 2008 9:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Kudos for the extra cash you made.

As you stated above, if you’re selling them through a controlled outlet (eBay/StubHub), you don’t need a broker’s license.

However, if you are “Brokering them yourself,” and are not a licensed broker… then what? That’s what I’m trying to figure out.

I'm not going to even bother trying to update this sig everyday anymore... that's what the standings column on ESPN is for.
Updated on May 25, 2008

by SackMan on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I’m a little jealous. For IF the day comes I can purchase season tickets, I hope I am well enough off that A. I don’t need the extra money and B. that I’m working at a job that allows me to go to every game. So I say man law #482 says “Thou shall not abandon your team in order to make some $$$.”

However, if it wasn’t for people like this guy, I wouldn’t have the opportunity to buy some of the seats I have purchased before. So I guess I say, let the invisible hand move.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 10, 2008 10:48 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

There used to be street scalping laws that

prevented selling at any price. But they were loosly enforced, if at all. There was also the proximity law, referring to not allowing any sales within a given distance. The law radically changed in the 80’s, which of course was long before any internet thing. I do remember how it impacted scalping around Chicago Stadium for the ’Hawks, who were at the time the perennial hot ticket in town.

And since there are no laws on the books preventing this new situation with MLB and StubHub (the fans’ legal-scalping agency as I refer to it), there’s nothing that should be done about it. I just wish I thought up that idea. What a concept! StubHub’s gross margin is 25%, no receivables and low overhead; wow!

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 6:34 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Can we all agree...

that scalping exists and will always exist. We are capitalists after all.

I don’t mind a season ticket holder selling extras or highly sought after games to off-set his initial outlay. In fact, I would encourage it. My only issue is the ease by which modern technology allows individuals to in essence use the Cubs for their own gain. A guy in Omaha can be a season ticket holder, receive his tickets and put every single one up on eBay or Stubhub. He might come out ahead in the good years, and lose a little in the lean years but he really has no reason to not renew his tickets every year. The Cubs seem to be a team that is almost forced to avoid any long rebuilding so it can be assumed that the team will be aggressively built. If he never gives up his tickets, it never opens them up to anyone on the waiting list to get their chances.

It’ll be interesting to see how the economy affects the season ticket renewal this upcoming season and the next couple. It may open up chances for a lot of people.

by CubFan81 on Dec 11, 2008 8:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Season Ticket Holders...

finance a good chunk of the current payroll upfront without knowing what the product will be on the field that year. People who hold season tickets pay a lot of money in January without knowing for sure what will happen. I think that once a season ticket holder helps bankroll, in theory, the product on the field that they should be able to use Stubhub or whatever to sell any games. The key point is there are probably more years where a season ticket holder has to eat a lot of tickets or simply give them away to benefit during these “boom” years. Over the long-term, a season ticket holder will eat most of the cost despite selling for ridiculous prices these last few years.

For the record, I don’t like the high prices of games and the unavailability of tickets but do support the free market system 100%.

by cubbot on Dec 11, 2008 8:43 AM CST reply actions   2 recs

Rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 11, 2008 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was one of the last hold outs

Even though I only use my season tickets for roughly 15 games a year ( I live out of state and sit in the bleachers as well) I did not scalp until I think 4 years ago. It was combination of thinking it was wrong and stupidly believing something might happen if I got " caught" . After the Cubs were discovered to have been scalping their own tickets I lost my inhibitions. I scalp , I mean “sell” about 20 or more games mainly on stubhub because hey it is the “official” outlet. Most of these are big games I would don’t attend ( Opening Day, Sox, interleague). I use the money to cover my travel expenses. I also make at least 30 to 40 games available to friends and folks I have met at face value. I am not crazy about stubhub , partly because they make 25% ( 15% from seller and 10% from buyer) for having an efficient web site and partly because there set up makes it hard for me to explain how good my tickets are ( majority of terrace reserve seats have obstruction but mine don’t) Craig’s list is unreliable and eBay filled with crap.Having lost my job I might scalp a few more games but I certainly would never cut my friends off from tickets or make them pay more than face. It is a balancing act but I have no qualms about scalping since in 20 years of having them I lost many thousands because was stuck with tickets I was too disorganized to sell.

Cubs never have and never will do anything about scalping. I once received by accident the tickets of another season ticket holder. It was 6 different sets, either pairs in fours in various sections of the lower boxes. It was an individual not a company. I joked with Al at the time that I could scalp them and move to Mexico with the money but they clearly belonged to a professional broker. The 20 or so games I sell to cover expenses are small potatoes.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Dec 11, 2008 10:29 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

You can put a note in any listing you make on StubHub.

If you want to note that your tickets are unobstructed, any buyer would see that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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