JJ & K-Rod Better Than Marmol & Gregg?
As posted on MLB.com
The Seattle Mariners sent right-handed reliever J.J. Putz to the New York Mets on Wednesday night as part of a three-team, nine-player trade with the Cleveland Indians. Putz, who has been involved in trade rumors for several weeks, becomes the eighth-inning setup man for new Mets closer Frankie Rodriguez.
Do you think that Gregg can do the job as set up and/or as closer?.
We have a great starting four (maybe 5 with Peavy) but now more than ever, bullpens are a huge and critical part of a team's over all success.
Was letting Woody go a mistake? Sure we still got Samardzija, but do the Mets now have a better bull pen than the Cubs?
NOTE FROM AL: I edited this post to put the text from mlb.com in a quote box. I couldn't find the link, otherwise I would have put that in here, too. Please do those things in the future if you are quoting from another online source. Thanks. (Also edited the title so it looks less "shouting".)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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I will go on record saying...
Yes. Letting Wood good will be a mistake. Our pen is weaker now.
The Mets addressed their primary concern of the off-season, we weakened one of our strengths from 2008.
I think we should have been in on Putz and really would love it if we could afford to add Fuentes even though his price is absurd.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
A call to the pen
Pressing the panic button already?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Excuse my panic.
I think panic is a bit overstated, but show me how I am wrong then.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
Hate to see Woody go but
We all know he’s going to the disable list oh sometime perhaps in June July aroung the All Star break
Which makes your bull pen weaker anyway
Going after Fuentes would be awesome but he wants to close!
Maybe we can create the new nasty boys like Pinella’s 90 Reds
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Would love that!
Those Nasty Boys were certainly that – just plain nasty….
And for the record, I am not too choked up about Wood being gone (until I see him in an Indians uniform that is). I will miss him, but I think we have created another hole there albeit one that someone can/should step into from the farm system.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
I truly believe
Guzman, not Gregg, will be the new Marmol, who is the new Wood. Got it?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
I would love that.
I hope Guzman can finally find a productive role after all those seasons of being out “untouchable” prospect in trades.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
Oh
And Wood is the new Joe Borowski……..who is the new…..I’m struggling to finish this. Help anyone?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Guzman can sure strike a guy out....
hopefully he buildson the positives from this past season and emerges as a go-to guy in the ’pen.
How about we just start the season and see how some guys perform.
Who knows, maybe we’ll look back during the allstar break wondering why we didn’t see a certain player having a break-out year.
WHY ARE WE YELLING?!
YES, THEY ARE BETTER THAN MARMOL AND KEVIN “TURTLE FROM ENTOURAGE” GREGG.
OH, AND “LOUD NOISES!!”
DAN
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Did not mean to yell
But now that I have you’re attention, now that the Mets have taken care of their weakness, will you call ’em favorites in the NL
Yes I know its only December, but championship are also won in December/April/May as well as October
(SSShhhhh plesae keep it down)
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Riiiggggghhhhhtttttttt
They aren’t even favorites to win their division, buddy. I think the World Series Champion Phillies hold that title. The Mets’ rotation sucks – they have a top 3 pitcher, two #3’s, and that’s it. I can’t expect Delgado to have the MONSTER year he had again, and clearly they had some sort of clubhouse morale issue last year. No, they are not the favorites to even win their division, nevertheless the pennant.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Mets lost more games in the 8th and 9th
than any other team in that division
Do you think Lidge will be perfect again?
C mon
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
I'll be glad to call the Mets the favorites in the NL.
That worked real well for them last year when Johan made them the favorites.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Good lord, I thought you were serious there for a second, then I read it again.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
If the Mets get Manny
They would be the favorites
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle
Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."
Wouldn't she
just be a he? Still your trans aunt?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
You bring up an interesting point....
My transgender family etiquette is lacking I must admit.
Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."
If she played like Manny she would be your daddy!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
I think in December...
the Mets bullpen looks better than the Cubs. It was another great pick-up for NYM, BUT (Sorry to shout), we’ll see… it’s why they play the games.
I don't really understand this.
It’s essentially a one-year deal for Putz, who will then become the biggest FA closer next winter (along with Wagner, assumingly). He used to be a set-up man, back in 2005. As horrible as their bullpen is, I think they have more pressing needs (like a more complete rotation) than 2 closers.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Let me explain.
Their BP cost them getting into the playoffs the past two seasons.
Worse for them, the Phillies then won the WS after another Mets collapse.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
Uhhhh...I think it more than just their bullpen.
I believe Glavine allowed 7 runs in the first inning against the Marlins in 2007. In 2007, Reyes hit .251 in the 2nd half, and .205 in September/October. In 2008, he hit .243 in the last two months. I think it was a team failure. And Wagner had a fine year in 2007 saving games.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Saving room for Manny?
Oh good Lord can you imagine a NL championship series between the Cubs & Mets
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
You'd like to think so...
…but on one hand, they already have/had clubhouse mentality problems last year. Manny won’t help that. But they were 2nd in RS behind the Cubs in the NL, so they don’t really have a problem with that. On the other hand, with Citi Park opening up, they may want to open with a big-name signing, and retaliate against the Yanks’ CC deal.
Oh, and for what it’s worth – and it’s not worth a lot, cuz Saves as a stat sucks – the Cubs were #4 in the NL in saves with 44, and the Mets were #5 with 43.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Saves suck???
Then why pay $24 million to 3 different players in one year!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Well Marmols and Krods career archs are pretty similar thus far...
So its down to Gregg and Putz, as Krods K’s are actually on the decline, so lucky for the Mets its only a three year deal.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Congrats Mets
They have a decent 8th and 9th guy now.
I’ll get concerned when their prized pitcher John Maine actually wins a game against The Cubs.
Its early
a lot of teams look good on paper. The Mets have for the last 3 seasons. We will see.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
2008 Detroit "PAPER" Tigers what?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Origami Tigers.
They folded right out of the gate.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
According to Cot's:
The Mets will be paying $5 mil for Putz, $10.5 mil for Wagner, and $8.5 for K-Rod. $24 million dollars for three closers.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Nice work
They can afford it.
New closers, New Ball park, Maybe New Champions?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Are you a Cubs fan? I know you're new here...
…but if you wanna crown their asses, then crown their asses.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Huge Cubs fan there coach Green
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
METS IN 09! We thought who they thought we were!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
My lord
MLBTR and Tim Dierkes cites that the Cubbies are interested in Chone Figgins.
(drooling in excitement)
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
You sure its not the White Sux
Kenny Williams has been trying to get his palms on Chon’s
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
I just checked the LA papers
It just says we asked about Chone Figgins and the Angels said, we don’t know what we need yet since they haven’t done anything yet.
Don’t wet your pants there buddy.
In a perfect world, they miss out on Big Tex and take Derrek Lee for Chone Figgins, but remember this is the same Angels team that asked us for Aramis Ramirez for Chone Figgins so keep your pants dry
I think Lee is worth more than Figgins
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I think you're Nucking Futs!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
thats Nucking Futs
come on, Lee has slipped, but he’s still more valuable than Figgins….do you ever think utility men are exactly that b/c theyre not good enough to stick on one position? he strikes out a ton too
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
ha...i thought you had it the otherway around
and wasted a perfectly good Dickie Roberts joke, my apologies
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
No problem
You Nucked up the reference, but that’s ok bc you did not mess up on Chone!
Right on! Long live D-Lee!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
PLEASE!
A. Ram for Chone Figgins?
D.Lee for Chone Figgins?
It will never happen You got the wrong Jimbo!
we’re talking Jim Hendry here pal not Jim Frey
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Are you from KC?
I’m a grad student @ KU.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Interesting
Do you want to know what color my eyes are too?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Nevermind dude. Real nice to meet you too.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Just choking Dan
From Chi Town
Love the Cubs, RedSox & the Royals
Mets are looking good. Great pick ups in the last 24 hours and I’m sure Omar Minaya is not done yet!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Meant to say "JUST JOKING" NOT "JUST CHOKING"
SPEAKING OF CHOKING!
The Mets did choke last 2 seasons but you can’t argue that the Mets now have a better bullpen than the Cubs!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
I'm not sure about that.
The Mets have two better closers. Marmol is better than Putz, but K-Rod is significantly better than Gregg. Two men do not make up a bullpen. And you have to have starters that get you to that bullpen, something the Cubs strongly favor. We still have The Shark, possibly Marshall, Hart, Guzman awaiting, and Hill (sarcasm). I can’t name many other Mets’ bullpen, but it is comprised of more than two guys, and right now the Mets need some guys to throw in the 5-6-7 innings.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
Wait a minute...
…Derrek Lee for Chone Figgins?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
It will NEVER happen
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Samardzija and Guzman are going to be throwing 96 plus in innings 6 7 and maybe later if Gregg F's up
Devin Hester, you are ridiculous! -Jeff Joniak
The Mets
It was a good trade for the Mets, netting Putz. They didn’t give up much, Green/Putz is likely an upgrade from Heilman/Smith, and essentially swapped defensive OF’s. Cleto may be intriguing, I like Mike Carp but he feels like Lyle Overbay at best. Vargas could potentially be a useful end of the rotation arm, and the two kids are far away, although Cleto looks intriguing.
So where does this put them? Well … thing is, which JJ Putz do you buy? Is he the Putz of 2008 or the dominant Putz? I think Putz is an upgrade, but I’m hardpressed to buy him as the dominant Putz, although moving to the NL will help. That said, with Green/Putz/KRod, the pen is better. Not Phillies dominant level, but better. Their rotation is better than people give it credit for, but they do need another starter in the mix.
I’m more concerned (if I was concerned about the Mets that is) about their lineup. I think it’s a bit spotty, and to depend on Delgado dominating again is a big risk. What they need is another bat to give the lineup, for lack of a better word, depth. I don’t know what type of financial situation they are in, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they tried to make a run at Manny. That said, my guess is Omar will prioritize another starting pitcher before the offense.
I don’t think the Mets are the favorites in the NL, but they have bridged the gap. The Phillies get the benefit of the doubt coming off the title, but if the Mets can make another key acquisition somewhere, depending on who they add, they might be the better club … on paper, depending on what Philadelphia does.
As for comparing the bullpens … I’ll give their back two the edge over ours, but it’s not by that much.
Yes, Rodriguez/Putz is better than Marmol/Gregg
Largely because Putz is MUCH better than Gregg, while Marmol and Rodriguez are a push. Not sure why that is important, though.
We have a better rotation (especially if we get Peavy), better middle relief, and as good an offense if not better.
And most importantly, we don’t really have to worry as much about the Mets. We just have to win our division and hope for better fortune in the playoffs. The back end of our bullpen wasn’t the reason we lost in the postseason the past two years.
However.
Putz still wants to close. Will he have the right attitude being a setup man?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I think he's in his last year
So Im sure he wont be a set up man for longer than that, but Im sure he’s not too pleased, he was pretty good when he was healthy
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I'm sure he'd rather close...
and he WILL close – in 2010.
Also, I’d guess he’d be willing to take one year away from closing to have a shot at the postseason.
Maybe, but...
… the Mets have collapsed two years in a row; where’s the guarantee they’re in for 2009?
Also, if Putz wants to close in 2010, being a setup guy at age 31 and not having closer numbers to show to teams next offseason isn’t the best way to do it. I realize he had little choice here, as this is a trade, not a signing.
It’s entirely possible he could be flipped to another team where he could close. The Brewers, for one, are still looking for a closer.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Where is there EVER a guarantee?
Obviously no one is guaranteed the postseason. But do you really think the Mariners have a better shot at making the postseason next year than the Mets do? That was my point – not that he was guaranteed the postseason by going to the Mets.
Putz not being a closer in 2009 will not prevent him from being a closer in 2010. GMs will recognize his ability to close, even if he didn’t do it this past year. It may cost him a few million in contract, but he’ll still be a top closer option next offseason.
Yes – it’s entirely possible that Putz could be traded again. It’s also entirely possible that the Mets, frustrated with the failure of the bullpen last year, takes no chances by getting two elite relievers to fill the 8th and 9th this year.
by SouthernCub on Dec 11, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
Remembering John Wetteland
Mariano was his set up man in 1996 when the Yankees won the World Series
Mariano went on the become Senor October in 1998 1999 & 2000
Mariano is the best closer of ALL TIME, FIRST BALLOT HOF
I’m not really remembering John Wetteland am I?
Point is 7-8th inning guys are doing more than just HOLDING the game,
They can make or break the starter’s outcome and/or make it easier for the closer.
If you think about it, Carlos Marmol was Cubs MVP last season.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Not sure where this came from...
but I agree with the exception of the MVP part (I’d give that to Soto). But Marmol was very vital.
Getting out of Seattle...
…that should help the ’ol ’tude.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed...
I’m really not sure what the point of discussing Putz’s attitude is. I mean, under the same sense, what’s to say Gregg will tolerate moving to the setup role for Marmol? He’s been a closer for a mediocre/bad team for two years now.
I think it’s kind of irrelevant. They’ll both do their jobs, because it benefits them long-term to do their jobs. And I think both will be happier doing that job for a team with a chance to win than doing it for a mediocre/bad team.
by SouthernCub on Dec 11, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Attitude to set up
Is just as, if not even more important.
Sometimes the 7th and/or 8th inning is more critical than the 9th.
I think some saves are easier b/c of thehard work of the set up men!
BY THE WAY AL
THANKS for editing and LOWERING THE VOLUME!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
You're welcome.
You’ve made some good posts here — just try to observe the usual posting etiquette. Thanks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
There's a reason why Anaheim made no effort
to keep K-Rod. He lost a lot of velocity near the end of last year.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
There's another reason...
They have a wealth of options to do a reasonably good job of closing for them without having to pay $10+ million per year.
by SouthernCub on Dec 11, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
The would have kept K-Rod
but were looking for a home town discount
K-Rod took the money just like C.C. did
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Random Thought....
What is John Smoltz’s status? Any consideration for him to come on board as a reliever?
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
Smoltz not a Brave?
Impossible. That’s like Wood not being a Cub, oh wait a minute….
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
Smoltz is a free agent.
However, he’ll either be a Brave, or retire.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Glavine has said that, Smoltz has not.
MLBTR says his agent has had preliminary discussions with a few teams.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Not an option...
For a few reasons:
1. I doubt he wants to go back to the bullpen
2. I doubt he wants to leave the Braves
3. Even if 1 and 2 are irrelevant, he will cost more than the Cubs want to spend on a closer. That’s the reason we didn’t resign Wood.
by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Smoltz will be in the bullpen if he pitches at all in 2009.
I think he has determined that he can’t pitch starter’s innings.
He doesn’t want to leave the Braves, but is listening to other offers. I have no idea how much he would cost.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

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