Peavy Deal Dead
by IllinoisCubs on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 PM CST
601 comments
LAS VEGAS -- San Diego general manager Kevin Towers just told reporters that a proposed deal to send pitcher Jake Peavy to the Chicago Cubs was dead.
"It doesn't look like anything is going to happen with the Cubs," Towers said.
Towers indicated that Cubs GM Jim Hendry pulled out of the deal.
"He said he's got other things going on. I respect his position," Towers said.
Towers will meet with team CEO Sandy Alderson on Monday and speak with Peavy's agent, Barry Axelrod, in the coming days to see where they go next.
Towers said one option is pulling Peavy off the trading block and going into the 2009 season with him at the front of the starting rotation.
-- Corey Brock
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Hey, SDSJM....
…. where would you like to go to buy me dinner?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Long gloat steakhouse?
Don’t collect yet, could be revived….
by lamentir on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For NOW it's dead....for this WEEK it's dead...
Obviously, this will go on. I suspect this is leverage on Hendry’s part. Why not wait until steam is coming out of John Moores’ ears and he’s screaming at Towers to “get rid of Peavy!”
Hell, this will be a smokescreen to fool Padres fans even a bit longer to get some of those lost season tickets re-sold.
Hendry might be able to get Peavy at a real fire sale price, later on. We both know that. This could stretch on until the trading deadline. However, I remain adamant that Peavy will become a Cub — sometime — anytime — even during the season. He’ll finish 2009 in a Cubs uniform.
Some times, we have to be patient. We all know about patience on BCB.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 11, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True enough.
You still owe me dinner.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What if the trade
takes place at the deadline when John Moores has his hands around Tower’s throat? This adventure isn’t over until — the trading deadline ends …or he’s shipped elsewhere. (It will NOT be the Angels, it will NOT be the Giants.)
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 12, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Want to bet another dinner on that?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 13, 2008 5:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Big Unit?
This sucks, someone remind not to get this excited at next years “sure thing”, unless its Grady Sizemore
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
To hell
with Big Unit. If we’re not getting Peavy, I would just as soon stick with Marquis in the 5th spot.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 11, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
on what basis?
johnson had better numbers last year and can be had on a one year deal
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets see
An early thirties pitcher whos never had a health issue or a upper 40s year old with serious back problems?
which would YOU rather have for your 5th starter when all you need is someone who will take the ball and (usually) keep you in the game?
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First of all...
I don’t really like that logic…Every starter is going to “take the ball.” RJ made 30 starts last year (2 more than Marquis) and had better numbers. I think he fits the bill of your 5th starter who will “take the ball” and “keep us in the game.”
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and at what 46
i don’t see 30 starts as being a reasonable expectation from Johnson. Sure he did it once, but what are the chances he does it again?
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Valid point. All I can say is he has made 30+ starts 4/5 years...
With 2007 being the obvious exception…I put enough faith in Hendry and the rest of the organization to know whether or not he can pitch at a level worthy of signing. Maybe he isn’t- but they will get his medical records if they get into serious negotiations.
I also know that he is a World Series winner, and a guy who has BEEN THERE before.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But hey- Blue Mike
would like to remind everyone that RJ hates the dugouts at Wrigley.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you channeling banned BCB posters again?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I had a seance.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is he banned?
When did this happen?
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Dec 11, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
It happened a week or two ago. Do a search for his username and look at his last few posts and you’ll soon understand why.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dempster Close to Resigning thread was the death of him...
…at least temporarily.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 11, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do we not have viable backups?
it seems like we have plenty of guys who could step in and fill a couple starts every now and then if randy “im infinitely better than marquis” johsnon was injured.
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 11, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yabbut
aren’t we going to be stuck paying at least half of Marquis’ salary for him to play for another team next year? Let’s just pay his whole salary and let him hold down the fifth spot in the rotation.
Adding RJ is just adding another starter to the 5-man whose injury history is in question. We already have one guy in the rotation (Harden) who we have to account for in case he goes down. I dunno, it just doesn’t make a lotta sense to me.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 11, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason will NOT be moved unless
We pay half his salary.
How many teams want a 9 million -dollar 4th or 5th starter?
That’s where a team can develop their young pitchers.
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is what we should be doing.
It might hurt our chances of trading him, but what if we put him in the pen, like we almost did last year? Let Marshall, Samardzja, and/or Gaudin have the spot in the rotation.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not that easy
Or it would have been done
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What would have been done?
Moving him? Or letting another pitcher take his rotation spot? I think we could have started Gaudin. The Cubs pay his salary. Let him pitch from the bullpen or rot, but we should develop our other SP instead of playing him.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis still has value
How many more wins can Peavy get over M&M
Marquis and Marshall while not giving up on the farm
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that
what I said? We would be stuck paying at least half of Marquis’ salary if we got someone to take him.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 11, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Later in the offseason...
… teams that are more desperate might be willing to pay more of Marquis’ salary.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Which is why we shouldn’t simply dump him. Let him be our reserve starter if someone gets hurt. Though I still say we give someone else a short at the #5 spot.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And this, again...
… is why those saying “HENDRYMAKEADEALRIGHTNOWORBEFIRED!” ought to back off a little. Sometimes patience gets you a BETTER deal.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Were people really saying that?
I hadn’t noticed…
[/sarcasm]
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd still like to get rid of Marquis.
"Hey Hey, Holy Mackerel, No Doubt About It!"
by scottsdalecubs on Dec 11, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...the athlete or his salary?
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 12, 2008 1:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
I’m guessing this means Bradley and Johnson are Cubs within a week.
But what do we do with Marquis?
by elgato on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect he's a Cub, for now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is still the #5 starter
until another option comes along.
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, then we probably won't sign Johnson
We don’t need Marquis, Johnson and Marshall for one rotation spot.
by elgato on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Marshall goes to the bullpen to be a swingman/LOOGY...
… and Marquis could still be traded.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see Marquis going anywhere
One of the best parts of the proposed Peavy trade was the dumping of Marquis and part of his salary.
by elgato on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see the point of trading Marquis
and signing Johnson if the Cubs have to eat a significant part of Marquis’ salary.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am just happy we still have DeRo
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 11, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just had a bad feeling about him being in the mix of that deal
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 11, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Al, with all that's transpired, do you really
believe DeRo will be a Cub at the start of ST? I sure don’t.
by N Oakley on Dec 11, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've thought all along
that there were a lot of signals that the Cubs planned to move DeRo this off-season. We’ll see.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'll keep him.
Lou likes to have flexibility, and DeRo plays several positions.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the same thing we've been doing
desperately try to get someone to take his contract
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
please no Bradley
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What about all the posts that said it was almost a done deal
You mean all of those were based on rumors, innuendos and reporters that need to keep the stories coming?
This should surprise no one that seen more than one off-season. It should also surprise no one if this deal gets resurrected.
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It might, but...
… I’ll bet not till the trading deadline.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree in terms of a real trade
but I bet it gets more press before the season starts.
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im upset
I would have liked to have seen that get done. Hope juim gives us things to get excited about.
by Kchance on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Im upset too, but happy that Hendry didnt give up to much just for the sake of having Peavy
nice restraint, one of Marshall or DeRosa wouldve been fine, but not both
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
RJ on a one year deal?
Just hope he can stay healthy.
Who knows, this may end up happening at a later date or Jake could end up elsewhere.
Just didn’t want to hear about it all off-season like the he who shall not be named rumors all last year.
"It's probably similar to being in New York City and having a cab driver behind you and you're driving too slow. It's not the most pleasant thing."
Barry Sanders, on what defensive backs who played against him compared him to.
by Jettero2112 on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He wants upwards to $8mil/year....
Too expensive if you ask me.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is going (already is) to be a disspointing offseason...
So far we have gone backwards getting rid of Wood, and although I didn’t want to trade away Vitters, I think Peavy would have helped this club. Sigh.
by GoCubbies34 on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So
does this mean this is the last Peavy post?
$100 says “no”.
by McRipper on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
atta boy Jim!
hold your ground and dig in those heels, we have all the leverage here.
Peavy is not a necessity for this team
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM CST reply actions 10 recs
Yep, I don't have a huge problem with this.
Sometimes ya gotta just walk away. Enjoy your free meals, Al! My guess is Peavy starts the season with the Padres and is moved at or before the trade deadline next year – a la CC.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whats with these green comments?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It means they've been recommended by at least three people.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It means it was in the fridge too long.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep doesn't
break my heart it didn’t happen.
by sue369 on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hear, hear!
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can they trade Marquis in a non-Peavy context?
Thats my worry, otherwise he’d be too expensive to put in the pen if the Unit is coming.
Maybe they’ll take a run at Lowe?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sure, Marquis could go in another deal.
But to whom?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Twins
Just a hunch from what I’ve been reading. No fundament to my statement or research.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd do that.
Maybe Jason Kubel could be involved somehow.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it seems like the twins are more interested in DeRosa
with that said if you could get them to take Marquis and DeRosa and get back a young pitcher like Slowey or Scott Baker (i’m just throwing things off the top of my head here). Then we could have either our young #5 OR a trade chip to lure in Roberts/Peavy talks again without giving up any of our other youngsters
and yes i realize how good Slowey and Baker are and maybe my trade idea isn’t completely realistic but remember DeRo comes with type A next year and two high draft picks so his trade value should be high
my big issue with this whole DeRosa inclusion in the Peavy talks was we seemed to be adding him without getting any value out of it….. there was nothing added on the Cubs end of the deal and nothing major subtracted it was just adding DeRosa to clear payroll
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think thats a trade that could benefit both sides.
They lost out on Casey Blake and need a third baseman if they want to take what looks like a wide open division. I would trade Marquis and DeRo in a heartbeat for Slowey but only if I didn’t have to eat too much of Marquis’ contract.
by dakoose on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i'd do that
then pump my resources into a Roberts trade (hopefully Vitters wouldn’t have to be involved) and then you save money and can pursue a better RF option maybe shortening the years and maximizing the dollars to reduce long-term risk and sell the player on coming out as a FA again in hopefully a better market a few years from now
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
(for the Twins, that is) Marquis would be great in Petco Park as their #2. Still will be.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 11, 2008 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If
If Marquis is dealt in a non-Peavy deal, it will be a flat salary dump. They will not get anything of reasonable value for him other than walknig away from the rest of his contract.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 11, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lowe seems like he wants 4-5 years
which is a lot for a pitcher who is 35.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
that just means it's dead for now
besides Towers probably has to get back to SD and Jimbo here.
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear things start back up at a later date. But it still wouldn’t mean the thing would go through.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
how long
before we hear “Peavy to Cubbs back on”?
by plenz on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It's the Zombie Trade that won't die...
Think about how may times the Brian Roberts trade had to die before it was officially over. I’d say the Peavy trade will be killed one or two more times before the 09 season begins.
by rynomite23 on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I bet before xmas theres another round of these
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
Maybe the Padres could trade Peavy to Baltimore for Roberts. That’d kill both those rumors!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ha, thatd be something else
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still say the Cubs get Peavy.....
Maybe around the trade deadline…..
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This just in..
Dan (DC): According to MLBTR, Towers says the Cubs pulled out of the Peavy deal and it is dead. Do the Padres start the season with Peavy or does he get traded somewhere else?
Keith Law: (1:11 PM ET ) I know they’d prefer to move him for financial reasons, so to me, this just indicates that the price in prospects came down, and some other teams that were out will jump back in.
Just one insiders opinion, but that doesnt make sense. If his value, in prospect terms, is down, wouldnt that make this deal easier for the Cubs?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think it's
that the Cubs didn’t want to give up a certain player, therefore making it a complete deal in Towers’ mind.
He wants to find optimal value elsewhere…
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that too.
Maybe he means the price the Cubs were willing to pay went down. Other than that I don’t know how to explain it.
by dakoose on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If other teams get in b/c the price is lower
Is how I took it, meaning that it shouldnt be a problem for the Cubs supposedly weak system to complete this deal.
If Peavy really dug his heels in and was intent on coming to the Cubs, I dont know what Towers is thinking, he needs to get some sort of return, as lousy as the situation might be….if they really are intent on shedding his salary that is
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No...
It come down only because the Cubs are stepping away from the table.
Essentially, you had a market on one, as Peavy controls it via his NTC. Any team stepping in now can low-ball on prospects, knowing that the market is already limited, and they will likely have to compensate Peavy to join their team. As the cost to Peavy goes up, the return to the Padres goes down.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 11, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a little disappointing...
Since Peavy’s a CY winner, but our primary need isn’t starting pitching. Honestly we don’t need Peavy at least not for the price that Hendry was being asked to make.
Personally I think the real disappointment is the lack of real movement on any front by Hendry. I guess want to see where adding Kevin Gregg and losing KWood fit into the larger picture of offseason moves.
I guess the lack of a new owner and the economy are just slowing things down this offseason, but it’s hard to patient.
by rynomite23 on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Part of me is happy this whole thing is over.
I would love to get Peavy, but if not getting him means we can go get a solid lefty and sign RJ to a one year deal I’m fine with that. Peavy is purely a playoff acquisition. Odds are we get to the playoffs without him anyway, and maybe Johnson or whoever else Hendry signs can do the job for us then.
by dakoose on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What the hell happened?
Did Hendry really pull out of an opportunity to get one of the game’s best starting pitchers because it’s more important to sign Raul Ibanez?
by gjdow on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No...
… he got out because he obviously didn’t feel the deal was beneficial to the Cubs, as it was structured.
If he can get a better one, yes, this could be resurrected.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
The structure of the deal seems to have been pretty stable from the start. Towers cited “other priorities,” which to me mean that left-handed bat.
I guess I just think that he could probably have gotten this deal done anyway. Getting Peavy would be a great opportunity for the Cubs: he’s under contract through 2012 at least, and at what appears to be a pretty good price. It’s the kind of move you make if you want to have a successful team down the line. Failing to pull the trigger here… well, we can just say that it doesn’t impress me.
by gjdow on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean you will believe the structure of the deal
from all these so called insiders who said it was a done deal. Who knows what the deal was? Even as late as this morning some people were reporting a 4th team involved. What about the supposed 3 team deal?
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's impossible to judge whether it was worthwhile without knowing the price
There were so many rumored frameworks out there that it’s impossible to say what that was. Needless to say, it’s obvious that it’s Hendry deciding not to do this and the only reason he’d do that is if the opportunity cost was too high (i.e. we would have had to give up too much).
I want Peavy too but I trust Hendry to do what’s right for the ballclub.
by Wreckard on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because it was too costly for the Cubs
not necessarily for this deal in of itself (too often here, we try to put one move in a vacuum) but perhaps one or more of the chips hendry wants to use for a different deal would be exhausted in this one. And Hendry is in the position of power. The Cubs SP’s isn’t exactly shabby so unlike the evil empire, they are not desperate and bidding against themselves.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs have always said getting
a LH figleaf hitter is more important than improving the club in meaningful ways.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I Hope that is what he is doing
Because I think a Shortstop and a left hand hitting outfielder is more important than getting another starting pitcher. This teams starting pitching is still one of there strong points.
by NYCUB FAN on Dec 11, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This sucks
No Wood
No Peavy
whats Jim’s excuse for not keeping Wood Now
Fire jim hendry
by plenz on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't go that far...
but if we really had enough cash to acquire Peavy I don’t understand why we couldn’t have just re-signed Wood.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's the question
But it’s a domino thing. Not re-signing Wood, trading Marquis and (perhaps) trading DeRosa would have freed money for Bradley/Ibanez and Peavy.
Now, the Cubs have the money saved from not saving Wood to sign a bat.
by elgato on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs Got Kevin Gregg
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely independent events
Wood was pure cash only. Peavy is bodies first, then perhaps cash.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Wood may have also been
The Cubs feeling that his health was a risk.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Randy Johnson??
How much better is he than Marquis? And is he more expensive?
by plenz on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
he was great in the second half
struck out over 170 in 180 or so innings with an ERA below 4
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
$6-8 mil
Taking a risk on an injury prone guy. I’m leaning towards no.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
only for one year though
hes said thats what he’ll take, so no risk really
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
The risk is we dump a guy who is consistently mediocre (Marquis) for RJ who obviously has health concerns. Moreover, he will command a similar price tag (when you consider what we will eat to dump him).
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as Marshall is around
to fill in should a starter be injured, I can understand taking a chance on Johnson (should Marquis be traded).
However, my concern becomes having both Harden and Johnson (both injury risks) in the rotation. Plus, I worry about that bad back of Johnson’s flaring up in April, when it’s still 35-40 degrees when the Cubs are playing at home.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus he wants $6-8 million
I agree I’d like to take a risk on him, just not for that price.
Maybe an old school incentive laden contract is order.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
No rush to sign him – if he’s available in a month, then go after him – he may be more likely to take an incentive-laden deal in mid-January if no one else is interested.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If you were a NL central team
Say, the Brewers, wouldn’t you look at his record versus the Cubs and be VERY interested in him?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
but it sounds like the money allocated for Sabathia isn’t going to be spent, so Milwaukee may be looking at offering an incentive-laden deal.
Houston wasn’t a fit for Johnson the first time around; Cincinnati would go incentive-laden; Pittsburgh is out.
St. Louis seems to be a realistic possibility.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gaudin is also insurance against injury
providing they dont DFA him, which seems ludicrous to me when you look at his Oakland numbers, particularly as a starter; hes more than capable
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It would make no sense to non-tender him
He can have a role on this team, whether it is in a long-man spot or setup man.
I don’t understand how falling in a dumpster (yes, it was poorly timed) is grounds for non-tendering.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also like Gaudin
And I think he could replace Marquis in the rotation, even if we can’t move him. Although I suppose that would decrease the chance we could move Marquis, as no one could see him pitch. However, there’s so little interest in him right now anyway, what’s it hurt?
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'll be less expensive....
tells you how much we overpayed for Jason.
Still don’t want to pick him up.
My crystal ball says he’ll be on the DL for back issues REGARDLESS of where he lands.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
From Ken Rosenthal:
The Cubs’ pursuit of Jake Peavy is over.
Padres general manager Kevin Towers said he was told by Cubs general manager Jim Hendry on Thursday that the Cubs were no longer interested in pursuing a deal for the former Cy Young winner.
The teams had spoken for weeks about a potential trade but talks broke down this week.
The Cubs were frustrated by the Padres’ attempts to seek five or six players for Peavy with one team executive saying, “They’re looking for a Herschel Walker-type deal.”
Said Towers: “Yesterday I sensed (Hendry) had some reservations about if he wanted to do it or not. We were asking for a lot. With Peavy we plan on getting a lot.”
Peavy has a full no-trade clause. If he is traded, Towers said that he would need to start the process over and consult with Peavy and his agent Barry Axelrod about which teams they would consider and move forward. Towers, however, also said he is not certain that the Padres want to engage in further Peavy discussions.
Peavy — who won the NL Cy Young award in 2007 — was 10-11 in 2008 with a 2.85 ERA.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Please give a link when you post this....
… in addition to the quotebox. Thanks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
chat w/ Keith Law
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
link
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well that didnt work, nevermind
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I respect Hendry's decision...
I just think it would have been more logical to re-sign Wood.
Sounds like Hendry or somebody in the organization had dialogue with buyers or whomever about getting a slight bump for Peavy to about 140 mil.
Wouldn’t it have been a better idea to bring up that Wood is the face of the franchise, and a leader in the clubhouse and ask for the payroll bump in that situation?
Bahh.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This could be a Towers bluff
He wanted Hendry to bite and Hendry didn’t; simple economics tells me the price will drop.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's Hendry's bluff.
KT is the guy who needs to unload Peavy — a guy with a NTC.
Hendry can act like he is going to sign Randy Johnson and leave KT with a decision — take Marquis and try to flip him, or risk having Peavy start the season with the Dads and end up on the DL.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and if Peavy really wants to play for the Cubs as badly
as some have reported…
he might just get his wish if he stands his ground like Hendry has.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yay!
I always felt like SD was asking too much. Now we get to keep Josh Vitters.
by Josh77 on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But for how long?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
CUE DRAMATIC PRARIE DOG AND MUSIC.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL - that IS better.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That one is for...
…all the “I want Peavy!” people out there.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but
he’s much more likely to go on the DL, plus…….he IS more expensive because in order to make room for Johnson, Marquis has to go and we will eat half of his $$
by plenz on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
not dissapointed at all.
This is actually good news. We were about to overpay for a pitcher that has pitched well in a PITCHERS PARK and under great conditions. He is slightly injury prone and we were going to give up way to much. Keep the youngsters or trade them to get Figgins or Roberts. I would rather see one of those two, a bullpen guy and a bat added to this team than Peavey. Yeah, the cubs paid too much for Marquis two years ago, but that was the deal they made and the pitcher WE NEEDED in 2007. I mean other than name recognition how much better does the team get with Peavey over Marquis and at what price? Its like the Red Sox going after Teixera when they have a solid 1b in Youklis. If they sign Tex they will move Youk to 3b and trade lowell. How much better is Tex than Youk?
by SammySosa on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
In Peavy's case...
I think he would be as good of a player, regardless.
It may help slightly but I feel that that arguement is slightly off base.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on, Peavy is an upgrade of Marquis
pitchers park or no.
If they can use some of those same pieces for Roberts and get the Unit, then that might be a smarter overall move, but dealing with the O’s is a tough task
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why did they sign marquis anyway?
since when does the pitching coach have a say in acquisitions? They knew what he was, he was in the same division for crying out loud…..now they cant move him
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Actually, the market for Marquis has not yet been established.
That won’t happen until the free agent starters are signed. After that happens, there will be teams that are looking for a bargain or were not able to acquire a pitcher in the FA market and the negotiations can begin. Also, the Cubs could wait until Spring Training and wait for the inevitible injuries to happen (this is also a WVC year) and trade him then.
(Maybe the Cubs will have a starter go down in ST and will need marquis.)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 11, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But how much salary will we eat?
That’s the big issue for me. If we’re eating half his salary just to move him, it doesn’t necessarily do us much good. I’m OK with keeping him as a #6 SP. Let some of the younger guys (Marshall, Gaudin) get a shot for #5. And if/when Harden goes down, we’ll have Marquis as a serviceable #5 guy.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this says that other offers came forward for other assets
the cubs need in order
1) LH power bat
2) LH or switch lead off bat
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Use the pieces to get something better
IMO once DeRosa’s name got out there as possibly being on the block the Cubs got lots of teams willing to be the 3rd or 4th team. So perhaps its time for the Cubs to see what else they can get for DeRosa, Marshall, Marquis, Cedeno and so on.
Would Peavy be a good addition? Sure… Do the Cubs have bigger needs than their starting rotation? Absolutely! I think it makes a lot of sense for the Cubs to see what other trading partners are out there and figure out if the elusive LH bat who can actually play defense and isn’t insane is available via trade.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
remember it could be the best trade that didn't happen
Peavy breaks down in ’09
Vitters has big year in A ball and goes to Daytona and grows
Pie stays and blossoms
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't disagree ...
but I can’t think of what the Cubs could do from here, other than re-stock the farm system.
If they sign Bradley, they’re essentially set at every position, with multiple options at second and right (because of DeRosa).
Unless they could trade for a shortstop … ?
by elgato on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ha, I like your last caveat
Im not too jazzed about the prospects of Milton Bradley, who is essentially a DH at this point
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, who is that LH bat that might be available by trade?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy Hermida springs to mind
as does Jason Kubel (in a DeRosa trade)
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully there'd be more of a return than just either of those two players
I’d like to think we can get more than that for DeRosa
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's something interesting:
I read that the Marlins are shopping Hermida for a catcher. (Wasn’t Hermida a catcher in the minors?)
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Willingham was the C.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhh, thanks!
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hermida talks have been on-going besides this
Neither Hermida nor Kubel cost what Peavy would have cost.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, so if the left-handed bat is a more pressing need
and he can be acquired cheaper than Peavy, it makes sense to do that. I think DeRosa for Kubel, with some other parts traded in there, would be beneficial for both teams.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure Kubel's price should be as high as DeRosa
but there are ways that could happen.
The problem with that reports about the Cubs and Twins talking DeRosa mentioned pitchers and the implication I got from those reports seemed to suggest they hadn’t talked before, which made me think Kubel wasn’t on their radar. As always, could be reading way too much into things….
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So would a minor league pitcher and Kubel for DeRosa work for you?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on the pitcher
and on what the Cubs planned to do at 2B.
Everyone else keeps saying DeRosa is so valuable because he can play multiple positions. To me, DeRosa is valuable because he’s one of the best 2B in the game. I wouldn’t trade DeRosa straight-up for a LH OF like Kubel who has a lot of question marks (as well as a lot of upside).
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean you don't trust Fontenot?
Given the chance to play a full season, the pop he had in his bat last year could be valuable. I think DeRosa’s better, but Fontenot isnt’ an awful replacement, and Kubel does have upside, as you said.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious about Fontenot.
There’s a reason Lou didn’t play him more often than he did. I’d be comfortable going into spring with Furcal, Theriot, and Fontenot as my three middle IFs. I would not be comfortable with Theriot-Fontenot-Aurilia.
But, yeah, Fontenot’s 2008 hitting line interests me a lot.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hermida has got to have a higher ceiling than Kubel, no?
better to use the prospects on him
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
here’s BA’s Top 100 from 2005:
15. Prince Fielder, 1b, Brewers
16. Adam Miller, rhp, Indians
17. Jason Kubel, of, Twins
18. Jeremy Hermida, of, Marlins
19. Chad Billingsley, rhp, Dodgers
20. Jeff Niemann, rhp, Devil Rays
21. Brian Dopirak, 1b, Cubs
22. Carlos Quentin, of, Diamondbacks
23. Jeff Francis, lhp, Rockies
24. Nick Swisher, of, Athletics
25. Jose Capellan, rhp, Brewers
In a lot of ways Kubel and Hermida are comparable.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
You mean like Dopirak and Quentin are comparable?
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 11, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The difference is that we have to compete with more teams for Hermida
Teams with more to give.
by Wreckard on Dec 11, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don't know
because I’m not a GM. But the fact is that once DeRosa’s name hit the rumormill lots of teams came forward. You put out there that DeRosa and Marshall are available in a trade and perhaps even Vitters and a lot of players we never expected suddenly might become available.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless they sign a FA
So looking for what’s out there should not matter
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
change the title to
“Its dead! Its dead!”
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd still pursue Roberts..
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Amen...
Keep Vitters, his stock may even rise.
…and get our leadoff man, Brian Roberts!
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well Roberts might cost Vitters
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope that Hendry would hang on to Vitters
and get a deal done with everyone besides Vitters.
I’d still want to the Cubs to hang on to DeRo…. we shall see.
Vitters may be the player to step up when Ramirez / Lee leave, whether that be by free-agency or a salary saving trade.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
We are all praying that Josh Vitters turns into our version of David Wright!!
by MrShowtime on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Not even one?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok, daver, just for you...
one in a million!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're sayin' there's a chance...
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Don’t lose sleep over Vitters in the middle of the order. He’s light years away if at all.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 11, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's certainly true...
…but, in all seriousness, sometimes it seems like people get a little carried away with this poo-pooing (if I may use such a term) of Cubs prospects. I mean, yeah, sure, Vitters is just a prospect and he could certainly turn out to be a bust. But, by the same token, couldn’t he also turn out to be a stud? He clearly has the talent and athletic abilities. Why is it an absolute certainty that he will fail?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that they over-hyping of some prospects recently
has set a precedent of high expectations, and then disappointment..
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
or better yet, go after Derek Lowe or Furcal or Dunn
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So now
we’re supposed to believe Towers? More posturing.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying the deal is dead
but why would Towers be posturing on this? If Hendry came out with these comments i’d understand, but Towers would only be decreasing his leverage further by suggesting the deal was dead with the Cubs
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They both held their positions
Towers wanted a Herschel Walker type deal and Jimbo didnt want to give up DeRosa……what can you do but move on?
Lets hope Harden and Z stay healthy and the Canuck can perform
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Towers is a blowhard.
I don’t see how this hurts his leverage..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok......
then i guess we have different understandings of the intricacies and the art of negotiation. Where i come from it’s usually not good for your leverage to come out and say: “The 1 chance we had at making a deal is now done”
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry and Towers are holding their ground...
Hendry has said that a RF and moving Marquis are his top priorities and neither has happened yet. Towers tried to set a deadline and Hendry didn’t budge. Talks will start again. This isn’t Brian Roberts. SD has to move Peavy..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right
but when talks start again you think the price will INCREASE because of what Towers has said here?
my guess is the price comes back DOWN, which would mean this isn’t posturing, unless he’s a complete idiot and is posturing to bring the price down
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cubs sign Bradley
the price could go up… Hendry has to hang onto his prospects cause he may need to use some to get a RF..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what?
why would a cubs signing make the price go up? That’s crazy, especially considering Hendry has said he feels he knows what the options are at RF through the FA market
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's how this could be negotiations (which I don't necessarily believe)
KT: Jim, I’ve got to get this done this week if it’s going to get done, so give me 6 players.
JH: Kevin, I’m flooded with interesting offers for DeRosa and I’m not ready to do this, ignoring all those offers. This doesn’t have to get done right now.
KT: Jim, we’ve got a deal, let’s do it.
JH: I may still do this, but not now.
KT leaves and goes straight to the mics, saying “It’s dead,” hoping that JH comes back to the table and pursues him. That’s what KT could have to gain; he could be tired of being the pursuer.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Conquest-
He was out to make a conquest
Didn’t care what harm was done
Just as long as he won
The prize
Conquest-
She was just another conquest
Didn’t care whose heart was broke
Love to him was a joke
’til he looked into her eyes
And then in the strange way things happen
The roles were reversed from that day
The hunted became the huntress
The hunter became the prey
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
by JohnM on Dec 11, 2008 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a White Stripes blog now?
and yes, I know that was a cover song
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DGU’s point about KT becoming tired of being the pursuer….made me think of the last lines quoted there. So, not completely OT.
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
by JohnM on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sun Tzu
If you are in the strong position, stay in the strong position and no need to move to a weak position.
If you are in a weaker position force your opponent to move away from that position into a weaker position.
Hendry had nothing to gain by moving now, Peavy was not going anywhere, actually by pursuing his cache of dealables like McLouth he strengthens his position for Tower’s only exit strategy is gone—-he cannot control Peavy’s NTC
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SD may not have to take Marquis...
Anyways, all I said is that doesn’t hurt Towers leverage. You’re the one asking how it increases is leverage, so I gave an example.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you said he's posturing
the definition of posturing is to strategically position
why would you “strategically position” to stay at equilibrium?
which is why i inferred you were suggesting he was trying to GAIN leverage, which again would make no sense
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The definition is..
To assume an exaggerated or unnatural pose or mental attitude; attitudinize.
The trade’s not dead. Towers is exaggerating.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's trying to draw Hendry out
More or less bluffing with the “dead” thing. His price will drop. It’s whether or not Hendry will be there next week or the week after for that price-drop. Hey, I feel like Walmart.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
calling Hendry’s bluff.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, please.
What do you want, a personal phone call from Towers? It’s D E A D.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
jim edmonds D E A D?
or Brian Roberts trade talk D E A D?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I was right about the Roberts thing last year.
Admittedly, wrong about Edmonds. But this is NOT posturing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i completely agree with you
and i was D E A D wrong about Edmonds too :)
just giving you a hard time
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Keith Law had Edmonds ranked higher on his list of FAs than Ibanez
last night on espnnews
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Talks will start next week
once Towers is done pouting.. They need to move Peavy and the Cubs are the only option. Hendry’s not going to give up 6 players for him though.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are updates from...
… Bruce Miles and Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
That SDUT article
says that its not unusual for trade talks to revive, so after 6 weeks or so of this would you really be surprised if Hendry gets back in it, provided they still want to deal Peavy and the Cubs are Jakes only preference?
I’m glad Hendry didnt cave in, but all along our only chance was Peavys desire to come here, so if that doesnt change, its hard to imagine six weeks of negotiations disappearing
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course the talks could be revived.
But Towers isn’t posturing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt think he was...
I just think if they had six weeks of dialog, presumably with some small amount of progress, it wouldnt be that hard to resume them after a few other pieces fall in place
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If talks open again
sure as hell was..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean to say that
you don’t think Towers is posturing.
...
by Chitown Mojo on Dec 11, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I mean to say that...
… Towers isn’t posturing.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And here I thought
that Towers was the only person privy to his own real intentions.
...
by Chitown Mojo on Dec 11, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Brown and Edes disagree
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-teixeiranegotiations121108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1
They make it sound like the Cubs still think it can get done, and that Towers is just posturing.
by Wreckard on Dec 11, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After the Cubs get a RF
talks will start.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorta glad it worked out this way.
I got run over by others when I mentioned " If DeRosa is in the deal I wouldn’t make the deal". If that was the case good for Hendry. I would still like Peavy on this team however Towers is asking for a ton. Peavy is not Lincecum, CC, Z, Beckett or Hamels. Towers wanted Sandberg, Dawson, Sutter and DeRosa.
Just please Jimbo, No Milton Bradley.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let's guess who next year's player who we focus on and don't get is.
Dallas Green!
by SonnyJ9 on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'll guess Ichiro
No reason behind it, just a guess
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was racking my brain trying to think of that...
what would we need next year?
If they sign an OF this year, that erases that, but maybe one less year on Fukudome or Soriano or Z’s deal might make them more palatable to other teams.
Maybe BJ Upton, hes not going to take a Longoria type deal, so he might be out of their range in a short while
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Peavy.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, seriously, that wouldnt be a shock
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i say it only half-jokingly.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Frankie Francisco.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure you don't mean...
…Stevie Sacramento?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we should all 'rec' this....
and bump the last fanpost with Bruce Levine down….
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Done.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
looks like you get the last laugh
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I knew this deal would never happen, but I also know that in about a week
We will see a story where the talks start back up, then come spring training we will get real close again.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jim is just getting leverage
The price will go down, and Jim will be right back in it.
by uwbadger on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that's my take
and i LOVE it
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of my frustration with this offseason...
is that Hendry hasn’t done anything to improve the team.
I hope a smart move is on it’s way. I don’t care who it is, as long as it makes logical sense for this team and it’s high(er) hopes for this season.
by EJThunder on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
amen
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
off season just really began
signed dempster
payroll increased to $140M
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In a sea of 97 wins.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I know improvements are coming; I’m just getting impatient.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's going to be VERY hard...
….to improve from 97 wins. I’m trying to prepare everyone for that, because it’s strong possibility.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs are likely to regress
However, the only moves so far were to let Howry and Wood leave, while picking up Gregg for Howry’s spot. Resinging Dempster was treading water, since that is not a change. So we are essentially minus one very good reliever in out bullpen.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm, that is true.
Let’s hope Guzman can step up or Gaudin or Samardzija can pitch well with a little more consistency.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say
that I agree with you—just because the team is not improving, not because of any other issues, personal or otherwise.
One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.
by chilango2 on Dec 11, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
if we regress from 97 wins to 11 postseason wins
i don’t care.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+11 (postseason wins)
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 (postseaon win first)
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah that first ones
proving to be a doozy. :-/
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And coincidentally
also -1 on the Phil Rogers transactions grading scale…
Though if you include Ward, Hank White and Jimmy Baseball we’re at a whopping -4.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Worse
Demp in 09 will not be as good as Demp in 08
and Kevin Gregg in ANY year will not be as good as Wood in 08.
We are indeed going backwards.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg isn't Wood...
But his numbers aren’t as bad as some believe. Bill James’s Handbook showed his Component ERA last year was actually better than his actual ERA. Of course, ERC doesn’t mean much in the “real world,” but it shows there’s hope. I’m OK with Gregg in a setup role.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gregg can play a positive role.
But he is the same type of pitcher as Michael Wuertz (only more expensive and not as good), so you may be fine with Gregg in a setup role, but he and Lou are going to be a fine pair to watch.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly what I've been saying
Simply brining back thte ‘08 Cubs isn’t going to change the outcome of the last two post seasons. Moreover Hendry has downgraded the team, so far….
I’ve got faith, he’s been an excellent GM IMO.
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Patience
The dominoes have started to fall with Sabathia signing. The guys the Cubs are after aren’t in the top tier and these guys are waiting to see where the top tier free agents sign.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm OK with not getting Peavy.
I was worried that by locking up our remaining wiggle room for Peavy, we wouldn’t be able to pursue the other things we need—namely, offensive power.
As good as Peavy is (I’m not worried about him falling apart or pitching horribly outside of SD), our rotation was good enough last year to get us to the playoffs and nearly win 100 games. Aside from Marquis (who at least eats innings), I see no problem with keeping our rotation as it is. We’re already spending a ton on our starters (aren’t we almost spending the most on our rotation, compared to anyone else not named the Yankees?), so why add more to it?
Instead, I want to see them get a power bat. That, even more than a leadoff hitter to bump Soriano down, is the top priority.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
If the farm is so bad...
If our farm system is so bad that it made it difficult to get this deal done, then why did the cubs just lose three players in the rule 5 draft?
by SammySosa on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
which ones?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Veal, not sure about the rest
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So let me be the first to ask...
…do you think any teams will “try the Veal”?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
the Cubs have a full 40 man roster and each of those guys is a special case.
Veal is a guy who’s got a million dollar arm and a ten-cent head. (Actually, he’s not dumb, he’s just sensitive.)
Holliman is a guy who can’t throw 88 mph, but has had some success in the minors and the Brewers figure “What’s the harm in sticking him in AAA?”
Carter is no good at all and I have no idea what Oakland was thinking.
by Josh77 on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Veal question
Should the Cubs have tried Veal in the bullpen before leaving him unprotected?
by Luis on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They wouldn't have had to do that.
All they had to do was put him on the 40-man roster.
Do we even have 40 players ON our roster at this point?
Sometimes I feel like Hendry doesn’t understand how the Rule 5 draft works. I see only 36 players on the 40-man at Cubs.com, and that includes a TON of dead weight.
Was Veal really worth less than Marcos Mateo, Justin Berg, Mitch Atkins, Jake Fox, Brad Snyder, Sam Fuld, and Koyie Hill?
Seriously, can anyone explain this?
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't make any sense to me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Terrell Young will definitely stay with the Nats.
I can’t see the Brewers toting Holliman on their 25-man roster all season, though.
But I can see Pittsburgh putting Donny Veal in their LOOGY spot and leaving him there for a year to retain his rights.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Holliman was taken in the AAA portion
so he has to stay in Nashville the entire season, I believe.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's easy enough for them.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't doubt if we hear in the next couple of days, maybe even tomorrow,
if we have signed a RF. I wouldn’t mind trading our prospetcts to get a powerhitter, but who is on the market?
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Why weaken our farm system more...
…by making a trade? There’s worth options available in the FA pool.
Or, if we’re going to trade, we’d need to move someone with a contract. I’d hate to see DeRosa or Lee leave, but I could understand it as they’re getting older. Especially with Lee’s power outage, he’s not the middle of the lineup threat that we need to go along with Ramirez.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
loyalty should not matter at this point, and I am pointing at Lee
Texiera would be a perfect fit for this team. Loyalty shouldn’t matter because of how Wood was treated. Lee is declining and I feel like Tex would be a perfect fit in our lineup
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
a perfect fit
would suggest we could afford him. We can’t afford 20 million to a hitter
thus he is not a perfect fit
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and the matter of Lees NTC
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We certainly could have -
If we hadn’t spent like drunken sailors on a bunch of mediocrities. Save the “elite player” contracts for actual elite players. But as they say, that ship has flown.
Getting 20M worth of production out of a $20M player is how you win titles.
Getting $7M worth of production out of a $13M player is how you rack up NLDS berths and wind up losing Kerry Wood.
Look at the NBA, for instance. Everyone is going to sit out the upcoming FA class, as they wait for the 2010 FA class with LeBron and Wade.
Hendry would be maxing out his salary cap in 2009 on free agents like Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom, and wondering why his team can never quite get over the hump.
MLBMilestone.com - following the numbers to Cooperstown
by D98 on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nice analogy
Marion and Odom are complementary players
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tex is going to the RedSox
Now that the Yankees have signed C.C
Redsox will not stay quite
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now I REALLY hate the Marquis signing
We just realized the cost of overpaying him – not being able to get Peavy.
"Dying is the day worth living for" - Captain Barbossa
by CaliCub on Dec 11, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sori, Lee, A-Ram, Dempster the same
Obviously you have paying for such a high price for such mediocre player but without any the above contracts
especially Soriano you would also have flexibility. It is unfair to single out Marquis
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well no one couldve forseen that 2 years ago
they shouldve known he was bad to begin with
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we weren't going to get Peavy
I honestly think most reports were fabricated by the media to create controversy..
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is complete BS
Hendry doesn’t like the asking price.
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, how could Hendry have predicted this situation...
…back when he signed Marquis? That signing was all about rotational stability, something Marquis (for all his faults) has delivered in spades.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think its Marquis
I think its DeRo. And if it is, I’m fine with that…
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we got to the playoffs in 07
without Marquis, fwiw.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted Peavy.
it was not just an addition to this team that made a huge difference but the statement for 2009. This is what the Cubs have developed as their pattern the last few years. We signed Soriano to “really make a run at a world championship”. We were supposedly going after Roberts to be “serious” about winning (and then we failed). The we added Harden to make a run and almost did but failed. Now it was Peavy and looks again like we failed. I am not happy about what this means for the overall efforts to win.
Don’t get me wrong. I do not want to be the yankees but there is a reason peavy wanted to come here, he said they do what it takes to trot out a winning club each year. My question is…Do We?
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I guess I was more excited because it would be the first step
in getting the nasty taste of last year out of my mouth. It would have been a breath of fresh air. Although I can’t fault Hendry if the demands were too high.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's plenty of offseason left.
Just because we didn’t get Peavy (yet) doesn’t mean we don’t do what it takes. I mean, we DID add those players, trying to find the last missing piece. And while we made it to the playoffs, we’re just not there yet. The biggest reason is the lack of offense, not piching. We could have won a game or two had we put runs on the board.
In other words, I don’t think Peavy IS that last missing piece. And I don’t think that just because we didn’t get Roberts, that means we’re not trying (or that that’s the reason we didn’t win).
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that Roberts would have been a huge part of an offensive upgrade.
I am sure we will be fine without Peavy but how often does a Cy Young winner pretty much beg to go to your team? It seems like something could have been done because while the Pads don’t HAVE to trade him, they certainly were doing their best to make it happen. It is just disappointing. I hope Hendry does something good with the pieces we saved because the way I saw this, we were giving up ONE good player and a bunch of other add ons. Vitters is a good prospect but then again, so was Pie.
Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?
by Kinky Reggae on Dec 11, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like
once DeRosa became part of the deal, teams were bombarding the Hendry with phone calls that said “Hey, if you’re dealing DeRosa, listen to what I have to offer first.” Then Hendry realized that he was offering way too much for Peavy, if he could deal DeRosa for what other teams were offering.
by Josh77 on Dec 11, 2008 12:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
exactly
and i’ve been saying this since these talks started…. all along Towers has been con-ing people into believing the package was sub-par and asking for a little more… a little more
the problem is the original iterations of this deal were fair value and Towers overplayed his hand not once but twice with two different suitors
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how official is this...
How official is this, the deal is dead stuff. ESPN, SI, no one is reporting any changes as of yet….
by SammySosa on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
They wait for more "official" statements
So I guess there’s still a chance. But the hot stove is really just a lot of wasted hot air (or typed words) about “what if…”
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As official
as the reports that it is a done deal?
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You keep saying that
There were never any such reports.
by Wreckard on Dec 11, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly.
there are people here that want this deal to happen, so they see ‘reports’ that say the deal is going to happen and they jump all over it and the people that dont want it to happen just say, “whatever, its not official.”
then there are people that dont want this deal to happen who jump all over things like this story as if no GM had ever told a lie in order to get better leverage in a deal. its really annoying, and is the worst part of all these discussions.
nobody seems to be worried about whats actually happening, they just want to be right all the time so they can tell people about that one time they said we werent gonna get Peavy.
by BigDumbFace on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny how when Towers says
“the deal is dead” it seems more realistic.
How are the Padres in a position to be deadlines or say its done if they NEED to clear the money off the books and Peavy will only waive his clause to come here and we’re the only team in it?
Something is off here.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Peavy may waive his NTC when he realizes just how bad the Padres are
It’s going to be a long 4 years in SD if he has to pitch for awful teams.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 11, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He will NOT be a Padre by the end of the season!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Al, has Deep Goat weighed in on the Peavy situation?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 12:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So before everybody knocks Marquis
The NL Central goes right through him. His team has won it every season he has been in the division.
Let the Blaine Gabbert era begin.
by nji232 on Dec 11, 2008 1:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
he's made the playoffs every year of his big league career
well, his team has anyway. he isn’t always on the postseason roster.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hehe, good point
Gotta love how he was left off the Cardinals PS roster. Which is why I was baffled as to why we signed him in the first place.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This team
Is going to be fine. Peavy was a luxury that we would love to have but not necessary. I have to agree with above though. Sell Derosa high. I really think Derosa has caught lightning in a bottle for us. I am sure that there is a team out there that will trade us something for a package of Derosa, ONEDEC, Marquis, those guys can all start now. Could a young team needing to fill multiple holes make a trade for a package of that. I don’t know, i don’t know who this team would even be but you have to imagine that you could get something pretty good for that.
by niuhuskie224 on Dec 11, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think one of the reasons Dero is so attractive is because teams feel
they can get him on rhe cheap. Plus he has a great contract situation. I doubt we could get anything great for him.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 11, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For all those celebrating
this could be the first step in Jake Peavy becoming a Brewer.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So he won't drop his ntc to go to the Yankees, Angels, Red Sox and countless other teams,
but he will drop it for the right to get his ass kicked by us and live in Milwaukee? Sorry, I don’t see it happening.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 11, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
likewise
w/o CC and Sheets, theyre worse off even if they had Peavy, Gallardo gets hurt too easily
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gallardo gets hurt too easy?
He was in a base-running collision.
by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's missed time prior to that as well
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Something other than the minor knee injury he had during spring training?
That’s the only other injury I know that he’s had at any level. Am I misremembering?
by Wreckard on Dec 11, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just throwing it out as a possibility, not something I think is likely.
If Peavy wanted to be a Cub and Towers said that door is closed, Peavy could want to be a Cub-killer.
Again, not something I think is likely.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. Not likely.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again...
…CUE THE DRAMATIC CAT!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure why you're so irriating to me
whether its the tone of your posts (glum and smart assed) or how freaking LONG your sig is.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
…you know what they say about guys with long sigs.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They have a propensity...
to pound sand frequently?
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 11, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only when instructed to do so.
Sigh…I miss him so.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if it helps...
Felix Pie is NOT a FREAKING MAJOR LEAGUE PLAYER! Lou would be playing him if he was. It’s just like stupid Cubs fans to overvalue our prospects and think Pie’s some kind of future 15 time All-Star. You give me stats, I’ll give you sand!
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that does help a little.
And I would add, simply, “MERITOCRACY!”
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
haha
i’ve missed this place.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Was that supposed to be...
irrigating?
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 11, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's gonna be a long off season, people.
Stay hydrated.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to have to work on this tone of mine
because I’m not sure I can figure out how to change sig lines again!
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guarantee in the next 24 hours
that there will be 4-5 diaries discussing why Hendry screwed up by not getting Peavy, wasted oppertunity, etc.
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 1:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And those diaries would be wrong.
I’ve said it many times, Peavy isn’t the missing piece. And Marquis isn’t the anti-christ either, though I’d rather be rid of him.
We have to boost our offense, in many ways. I’m OK with Lou wanting both speed and power, and if it’s all from the left side then great. We need to bolster our offense for the playoffs.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i agree with you
BUT given the nature of the people on this board, there will be neggative posts about not getting peavy you can guarantee
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe, but...
… A lot of people still seem to think he’s going to explode when he leaves San Diego. In which case we’d simply be trading Marquis for Marquis 2.0…. =P
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think the argument was Peavy was the missing piece
the adulation and clamoring was for a 27 year old Cy Young winner who could ease the pressure off Zambrano and provide coverage in case Z or Harden gets hurt and Dempster reverts to the mean.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Understood.
However, I simply feel that he’s not the most important addition to the team this year. Yes, Dempster isn’t likely to do what he did last year, but even an “average” job is OK for a #4 starter (I’m ranking Zambrano, Lilly, and Harden above him this year). We need that offensive boost more than we need another pitcher, and Peavy’s salary (esp. future years) will limit our ability to get a worthy bat added.
I’m not saying Peavy isn’t good. I actually really like him. But the Cubs have other needs, and if we lose our wiggle room by taking on Peavy (and having to eat half or more of Marquis’s salary), then it’s not worth it.
by varrys on Dec 11, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
This is how I’m feelin’.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
in the end, we really have any grounds to say whether this was a good deal or not, because we don’t know what the final trade tally was going to be. There are deals that if Hendry rejected them, I’d say it was a wasted opportunity, but other deals I’d have been disappointed if he accepted. Peavy wasn’t a must-get player, but he was also a player you have to listen on if he starts to fall into your lap. I think we should assume Jim has done what is best until we hear otherwise.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
probably right
my dissapointment will be if they fail to get an impact LH bat and a leadoff hitter somehow. If they truly had $$ for Peavy……they now should be able to accomplish both..ie; Roberts and Bradley or Ibanez
by plenz on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not so fast...
Peter Gammons just said that the Padres kept asking for more and more and the deal got out of hand. HOWEVER, he says he still thinks the deal will certainly happen and that his sources at the cubs also think the deal will still happen. Said at this point he feels Peavy basically is saying “trade me to chicago or else”
ITS NEVER ENDING!!!!
by KButler on Dec 11, 2008 1:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
or else what?
he’s under contract, what option would peavy really have?
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
saying or else he will refuse a trade to anywhere else
which is something apparently the padres really cant afford, especially with the product they are going to put on the field. This is just what gammons said, not me.
by KButler on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so that just means we have all the leverage.
maybe this’ll mean it’ll go back behind closed doors and get done.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Towers said its dead
what else more do you need??
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
umm, hello, its Peter Gammons?
sarcasm* but come on, its not gonna die this easy, you had to know that?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is now officially worse than Brian Roberts.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 11, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we passed that point a few days ago
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peter Gammons on ESPN
Just stated that the deal is not DEAD but rather in critical condition. It seems that Towers was getting too aggressive and asking for too much so Hendry backed away from the table. S
by cubsonWGN4ever on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is exactly
what i suspected, which is why i made my post above (all the way at the top) as my initial reaction
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
i just hope harden can stay healthy a full year and dempster could repeat that one year wonder he just had and zambrano could keep a hot streak for a whole season…i just hope were not sayin why didnt jim pull the trigger on this deal
by cubbiepride on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Towers has a said a great deal during this process
and that has baffled me.
Why in the world has he been blabbing to the press at every step in this process? It seems to me that the constant public updates has hurt his quest to trade Peavy.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 11, 2008 1:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
read an article
where someone nicknamed him “tampering towers”… this seems to be his thing.
by halfblindcubbiegirl on Dec 11, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Kevin Towers the Cubs GM
Seems like he’s telling us what to do
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent. Hendry has hand
and needs to use it to his advantage. Either the Pads come around to whatever Hendry is willing to pay or they pay Peavy. I’m okay either way.
by N Oakley on Dec 11, 2008 1:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hand
KT: “But I’ve got Hand”
JH: “And you’re gonna need it!!!”
by McRipper on Dec 11, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At which point Jose Lima's wife pops in and says...
…“They’re real and they’re spectacular!”
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd need a better picture to be sure...
…but you’re probably right.
(Not that I’m asking anyone to direct me to a better picture…nudge, nudge, wink, wink…)
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, all right.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hm, still hard to tell.
Further photographic evidence required.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vigorous chest massage should do the trick.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 11, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
She would have moved Peavy
maybe not out of San Diego, but she would have moved him for sure!
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking what Gammons reports.....I have been here in business deals
First a lot of time for Egos to get in the way, and since Towers had little leverage and little ability or permission to back out of a deal….
You see the first thing in negotiations, be it a business deal or salary deal is the willingness or propensity of either side or both sides to walk away from a deal they don’t like. The second is urgency or timetable.
Now Towers was limited because when he signed Peavy he included a NTC….that removed his ability to walk away from bad deals—-to do this all he could do is sabotage a deal by asking too steep of price….by plan or result of circumstance.
When Sutcliffe convinced Peavy (and possibly Maddux) that the Cubs was a great place to play if SD is going poor and young. So Peavy says Atlanta or Chicago and Atlanta says no….thus only Chicago…..If not Chicago I just collect my paycheck.
That is the OR ELSE, I will stay and get paid…..
Now Cubs made an offer that appeared to be the price——Vitters, Marquis, Hart and Philly prospects. It seemed that Towers increased or kept increasing the deal over the weeks—-sabotage or ego or refusal to actually make the deal it matters little….
Now here is what can happen. The owner gets involved and cuts the deal and uses this to fire Tower…
I say he is fired. He was told to slash payroll and get what he can get….Towers found a way not to do that right or wrong.
If Hendry is smart and he is, he will make a deal that will improve his team—-if that means find a way to get Hermida or like….he will, possible deal is with NY that traded Heilman yesterday for Seattle’s Putz, but they also traded CF’er Reed.
Cubs could trade Seattle Marquis and Hart or Wuertz for Heilman dumping part of Marquis salaries and say they are going to April with Marshall or Gaudin and give Hill a shot while they shop for Hermida or alike, but then the price for Peavy falls…..
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 2:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Would Heilman really be an upgrade over Wuertz?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
no unless it goes with mayonnaise
opps I thought you said Hellmann’s nevermind
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
Heilman basically demanded to start or be traded and he was obviously serious about it since he was traded rather promptly. Our rotation is obviously too full for someone like him.
by KButler on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Soooooo...to sum up...
…you’re predicting that Kevin Towers will soon be fired?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Kevin is safe
Just like Rog Blogo
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
KT: I've got this guy and he's f**king golden...
…I’m not just going to give him away for nothing!
JH: OK, I think we’re all done here.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am not predicting anything
but I should say that if SD owner said get me out of this $66M liability that you signed and he sabotaged the deal——that is what happens.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JH to KT "Oh you want me to pick up the tab too?"
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nate McLouth
It’s been mentioned that he is available, though at a cost. There was word that the Pirates were interested in Mitch Atkins. I wonder if the Cubs could use some of the pieces they have, perhaps sending DeRosa to a third team who could also pony up some prospects that the Pirates would like.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 2:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
It'd be a steep cost
But hopefully Hendry has put a call in to the Pirates. Any pitching prospects he could get would surely interest the Pirates.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I asked that question above
and McLouth is the one name that could be better than what’s been previously discussed. I just don’t see how including DeRosa gets him to the Cubs. But anything can happen. We’ll see.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interestingly Pirates offered log term deal today but also admit to trade talks
LAS VEGAS — The Pirates have yet to make a move through two days of Major League Baseball’s Winter Meetings, but a significant project has begun behind the scenes: The team has initiated talks with three anchor players — center fielder Nate McLouth, catcher Ryan Doumit and pitcher Paul Maholm — toward long-term contract extensions.
Multiple sources confirmed the talks, which, though in the earliest stages, could result in all three being extended through all three of their salary-arbitration years or beyond by cutting into free-agency time.
More
One source with direct knowledge described the Braves as going “pretty heavily” after one or both, adding that they could ratchet that up if they fall short in their bid to acquire free-agent starter A.J. Burnett.
But this development comes with two large asterisks:
1. The Pirates do not rule out trade talks regarding any player, and they have fielded other calls this offseason regarding all of what the front office often calls “the big four,” that being McLouth, Doumit, Maholm and Capps. Thus, this is not unusual.
2. It would take an enormous bounty of talent for Atlanta to get one of McLouth or Maholm, much less both. The only possible return cited by the source was superb Class AA center-field prospect Jordan Schafer, 22.
After word broke in the afternoon, Pirates general manager Neal Huntington was asked what it would take, in general, to get him to part with a key piece.
“The reality is, as we’ve talked about repeatedly, there are no untouchables,” Huntington said. “If we can get back the right package for some players where the price is higher — players we, quote-unquote, over-value — if we get that package that allows us to make a positive impact on the organization, then we have to entertain it. Some, we can dismiss out of hand because there’s a lack of fit. Others, we go through the process.”
Would he need to be blown away?
“Blown away is strong. There are certain guys where, in our minds, we would need to get what we’d consider an over-pay. Those are deals you struggle to ask for. You don’t want to get a reputation for asking too much.”
An Atlanta official, asked later about the Pirates, said in a dismissive manner that their price was “way high.”
hmmm…what is blown away…what the Cubs had offering for Peavy:
Here is what they would buy:
McLouth, 27, batted .276 with 26 home runs and 94 RBIs and became the Pirates’ first Gold Glove winner in 15 years. He made $425,500, close to the major league minimum, and is first-time eligible for arbitration, a process likely to quadruple that salary.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that gold glove
was a joke
McLouth is a below average CF
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just imagine -
the Cubs could have two gold glove OFs in Nate McLouth and Bobby Abreu this off-season. That’s how, compared to their fielding, Fonzie will finally win his gold glove.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats why we might as well get Dunn
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BINGO
THAT IS THE GUY I REALLY WANT
YOUNG LH BAT GOLD GLOVER SPEED
But the Pirates want the farm just like the Padres
So if we did not give our picks/drafts roster players to get Peavy why would it be different for Nate?
"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton
by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because McLouth fills more of a need than Peavy
Theoretically, McLouth is/can be the power-hitting, left-handed outfielder the team wants.
Peavy is a luxury more than anything.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But the price would be much higher
…and there would be multiple teams competing – teams with better prospects and deeper farm systems.
I just don’t see us filling our LH OF need through trade. We just don’t have what it takes to get someone of high value.
by Wreckard on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
if word got out that the Pirates were negotiating a trade for McLouth, the competition would definitely drive the price up.
I don’t see the Cubs getting him; I think Bradley is option #1 right now.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 12, 2008 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that is the best idea I have seen for the OF
His 26 HR’s would add power and he is solid defender in CF.
Wonder what they would be interested in since Nate is arb eligible?
Pie, prospects from DeRosa deal,
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a bad idea.
I love Mclouth and would solve a lot of problems. I think we all love DeRo but can all agree that he had a career year and is unlikely to put up those numbers again, ever. In the final year of his contract, he really is expendable and it would be one time that the cubs are actually selling high than low (remember at these meetings last year when Rich Hill was “untouchable”, even for Roberts)
Either way, Mclouth or Bradley or Abreu i think is necessary to better this team. Hermida or Teahan is not what this team needs. If we don’t get peavy I think they really should add TWO left handed/switch hitters, an IF and OF (aka Bradley/Abreu/Mclouth and Furcal/Roberts/Hudson) . I realize thats a lot of money but really I think the market will be falling back to the cubs range here. And seriously, people act as if the new owners are going to withdraw their bid if the cubs take on a big contract, which is a joke. Yes the cubs will be “spending someone elses money”, but whats the problem with that? After all this work, if the cubs get peavy, or whatever, do you really think one of the prospective owners will say “oh, Im done now”?
by KButler on Dec 11, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
McLouth is terrific
and All Star caliber. My thought is that Hendry has managed to hang on to players which have gotten a lot of pub – and increased perceived value – to the other GM’s.i.e. “If Towers liked them, then he probably can play…” This is a good thing. So – in the right deal, HEndr can be able to sell high with some of our young players – and BOTH DeRo (although losing him would be sad) and Marquis have value. Jason Marquis – is an excellent 5th starter (as much as I hate to admit it). In spite of what some idiot on-air “experts” believe – he has been on playoff teams his entire career (a good luck charm?), pitches a lot of innings, and a winning record.
IMO, I believe Teahen will get acquired as a bench player, when other things pan out. Bradley will get added (as Bruce Levine believes), and HEndry still has some nice bullets to load to pull of something for “the leadoff hitter” or Peavey – should Towers cave.
by The E-Man on Dec 11, 2008 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look on the bright side....
That frees up money to bid on Yu Darvish
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 2:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Last I heard, Darvish said he was staying in Japan.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, by not taking on peavys 60 mill
is what I meant, but yeah he seems pretty intent on staying in Japan for a while
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The money is definitely there now...
…. to get an OF, and if it winds up being Hermida, there’s money left over for a midseason acquisition.
That’s how I’d approach it.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that looks like the likely scenario
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cubs have really moved on from Peavy
they need to run straight towards Rafael Furcal!
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
refresh my memory, Al...
now that Cubs aren’t going to use up all their trade chips on Peavy, and now that DeRosa seems to definitely be in play, what do you think it would take to get Hermida? What’s Florida looking for? Is this a simple, easy-to-pull-off two-team deal that Hendry could do today if he really wanted to? Or are this another drawn-out drama-in-hiding situation…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 8:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect some inquiries will be made.
Sean Marshall would probably have to be involved.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we're apparently now back talking with the Mets for Marquis
since i labeled the Mets as one of only THREE suitors for Marquis, this excites me
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=MLB&hl=253092
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Interesting
Though Scott Schoeneweis doesn’t excite me too much. He may be better than Cotts, however.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it comes down to
is that extra 6 million in flexibility (assuming that in a Schoenweis for Marquis trade, the Mets take all of Jason’s salary) more valuable than Marquis?
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's an excellent question
And truth be told, I’m not sure. With Marshall piggy-backing Harden in case of injury, I worry about the depth of the rotation should anyone go down.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 11, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd sooner take...
Duaner Sanchez.
How the Heilman for Marquis deal didn’t go down is beyond my comprehension.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 11, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Must have something to do
with him only making $1.2 MM this year…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It seems that Heilman was key in getting Putz
but maybe you’re being sarcastic.
As for Schoeneweis, his numbers against lefties aren’t bad the past two years. If the Cubs want a guy who can be a true LOOGY (emphasis on ONE OUT GUY), Schoeneweis could be that guy. He’d also offer a tactical advantage against managers with poor spelling. Imagine running Samardzija and Schoeneweis back-to-back.
I’m just not sure Lou buys into the One Out Guy part. I think he prefers relievers he can run for entire innings, which is understandable.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he embraces...
modern bullpen management strategies at all actually, so I think you’ll get as much bang for the buck from Cotts as you would from Scott.
And no, I wasn’t kidding about Heilman. If rumors of Hendry being willing to eat 4 million of that contract are true, it would have been a real good move for New York, in my opinion. Better than giving Oliver Perez 10-12 million per, at least.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 11, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Mets minded a Heilman-Marquis swap
(at least that wasn’t how I read the NY article on that deal), but just that the Mets had enough inquiries on Heilman they thought they’d need him in a different deal, which they did. I think the Mets are glad to have gotten Putz for what they gave up – and they can still go after Marquis. Speaking of that deal, since the Mets have Endy Chavez and Angel Pagan, why not try and swap Marquis for Jeremy Reed? Reed would make a fine 4th OF for us.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I for one am unimpressed...
with Reed. But I will say that Putz is a real smart acquisition for them; probably better than K-Rod actually.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 11, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets did well in that deal.
I’m not impressed with Reed, but he’s another LH bat and I believe the Mariners so mismanage talent that taking one of their young players and giving them another shot on a different club can sometimes bring surprising rewards.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs still optimistic about getting Peavy...
Appears they just disregard Towers self-imposed deadline.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-teixeiranegotiations121108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 3:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pretty fitting that link leads to this:
Yahoo! Sports – News Article Expired/Not Available
The news article you requested has either expired or is not available.
You may be able to find what you want through our news archive.
If you still have problems, check out Help.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Try this
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure
when Hendry says “It’s in the best intrest of our team not to do this deal” it’s never going to happen.
by illini23 on Dec 11, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was fixing the original link....Not saying
I think we are getting Peavy…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This deal..
as in the way the deal was most recently structured
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.
Here’s more from the Cubs website:
“As much as [adding Peavy] would’ve been a great acquisition, for the good of the organization, I didn’t think, today moving forward, it was the right thing to do,” Hendry said.
That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t consider Peavy six months from now.
“He’s a great pitcher,” Hendry said. “I would never close the door on trying to acquire him. He’s one of the marquee guys in the game.”
Towers told reporters after the Rule 5 Draft on Thursday that the Cubs had moved on.
“He said he’s got other things going on,” Towers said of his conversation with Hendry. “I respect his position.”
It doesn’t mean it can’t be revisited later. But that might mean the trading deadline.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry's in the driver's seat.
Was dumb for Towers to impose a deadline on December 11.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"It's in the best interest....(RIGHT NOW) not to do this deal." (IT WILL BE LATER.)
(What’s left unsaid…)
When the Padres are in a corner, and John Moores is splitting up his fortune in divorce court, you can damn well be sure this deal happens.
Patience.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 11, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You still owe me dinner.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that sucks.
There goes my excitement for the season. Looks like we are going to bascially have the same team next year so we can choke in the playoffs again…Whoo hoo!
Watch us trade for Mark Teahan to be our RF now or something.
We, better sign Milton Bradley or this offseason is a complete faliure.
by illini23 on Dec 11, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So retaining a 97-win team doesn't excite you?
That’s too bad…
If you cheer for the Illini though, I could understand your frustration…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 11, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well at least last year we had Fukudomes hot start, which we cant count on again
so something has to change and we cant rely on Demp or DeRosa to reproduce or exceed their career years
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
we’re also less one closer who notched 34 saves for us last year. So, up to this point anyway, we are not quite the same team who won 97 last year. And yes, I do know that it is only December 11th.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 11, 2008 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well, who sucked last year?
besides Dome tailing off at the end of the year, nobody really comes to my mind. But I’m not thinking too hard yet today, so I’m sure there were a few Cubbies that had less than stellar years last year. Whoever they are, you might as well just count on them having much better years this year so that should make you feel better. It’s pretty much the same logic as assuming Demp or DeRosa won’t reproduce last year’s numbers.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 8:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lee I guess
but a lot of them had career years,so that doesnt bode well for 09
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You can conjugate it....
Past – Ryan Theriot sucked.
Present Participle – Ryan Theriot is sucking.
Infinitive – Ryan Theriot will continue to suck.
Present – Ryan Theriot sucks.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 12, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Future — Ryan Theriot will always suck.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 12, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Peavy deal may be dead...
…but this Fanpost is unkillable. Maybe it’s time for Part Deux.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 3:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
peavy threads are like bebe's kids
“THEY DON’T DIE, THEY MULTIPLY!”
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 11, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Final Word
I think throughout this entire process a deal was never as close as we thought it was. I honestly think the media fabricated stories or “heard rumors” and went gun hoe with entire debacle. I mean honestly, do you really think this team would give up nearly 1/4 of its 40 man roster for one pitcher, that it would involve 4 teams to get it done? The entire situation was just so extremely bizarre it seemed very unrealistic. Not to mention, So many reports contradicted one another which further proves my thesis. Some said Pie may go to the Orioles or may no. 3 teams involved, no maybe 4! DeRosa to the Phillies…or Twins…or neither. Vitters maybe traded? There was honestly no clear-cut trade proposal out there that you could say was remotely true. Not one player on the Cubs could you guarantee was in the deal based on all the media reports. At least during the Roberts debacle, you had an idea that it would be Gallagher, Cedeno, and Marshall because many sources stated that, unlike this farfetched trade.
Personally I think its a good thing that this trade never took place, for it would have depleted our bench and reserves just incase someone got injured. Say if Fukudome or Johnson went down, Dubois would be our 4th OF? Cedeno is valuable to have as replacement for Theriot in late innings. DeRosa is valuable to this team whether as a starter or as a supersub. Vitters could potentially become the future of this team.
This team now needs to focus on getting another reliever in the pen and a power hitting RFer. I do not know what reliever we could get (apparently there is a rumor of Marquis for Schoenweis which I don’t like), but I think we should try to get Ibanez or Abreu. I’d like Dunn, but you honestly want him playing RF at Wrigley? Milton Bradley’s numbers were influenced by the small park in Arlington and he’s a clubhouse cancer whose crappy at defense.
Geez, this may be my longest post I’ve ever written!
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 4:12 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
There cant be that large of a defensive difference b/t Dunn, Abreu and Ibanez
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely put
Though Brad Snyder would probably be the 4th OF, as he’s on the 40-man right now and DuBois isn’t.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 12, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
last
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 11, 2008 4:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
not so fast..
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 4:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow you were off by at least 100 posts
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
by Chanman25 on Dec 12, 2008 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny...
…I also picked the Seattle Mariners to win the AL West.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not even close!
I think Bradley could help this team, if used and managed properly.
"I lof to hit de home ron!"
by Tekboy on Dec 11, 2008 4:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
… I don’t think it’s possible for him to be “managed properly”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 11, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The real problem is
He’s a DH
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at his history.
Would you really want him around, say, attacking other teams’ broadcasters?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When did he attack a broadcaster
You’re exaggerating. The media has been extremely unfair to Bradley, and has created a myth around him that doesn’t fit with the reality.
by Wreckard on Dec 12, 2008 10:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm exaggerating?
Really? Did you forget about this?
Milton Bradley stormed out of the Texas Rangers clubhouse after an 11-5 victory Wednesday night over Kansas City and bounded up four flights of stairs looking for Royals television announcer Ryan Lefebvre.
Bradley, who was the designated hitter, heard what he considered derogative remarks made by Lefebvre on a TV in the Rangers clubhouse.
General manager Jon Daniels and manager Ron Washington were close behind and intercepted Bradley before he reached Lefebvre.
Good thing, too, because if they hadn’t, Bradley would probably have been in prison on assault charges.
We do NOT need this man on our team.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley claims he just wanted to talk to Lefebvre.
He didn’t attack him. You’re speculating about what his intentions were.
by Wreckard on Dec 12, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see...
… “stormed out of the clubhouse and bounded up four flights of stairs”, and the manager and the GM had to “intercept” him?
If he’d just wanted to talk to him, maybe he could have asked the media relations director to go get him?
I think his intentions were clear.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right that's how the media portrayed the incident
Those words definitely evoke a very specific image in your head about what Bradley’s intentions were. It’s almost hilarious – every single story I’ve seen about this uses that exact word – “stormed”. It’s very odd and deliberate.
Daniels himself said of that event, "I was there the whole time. There was no aggressive action. There was no foul action, nothing of the sort. We move on."
If Daniels seriously thought Bradley was going to take physical action against Lefebvre, don’t you think he would have taken some kind of discipline against him??
I think you could make a very strong case that the media hasn’t been fair to Bradley.
In fact, I won’t make that case – this article does a much better job.
He’s gotten this reputation as an explosive sociopath but I’m just not sure it’s deserved.
by Wreckard on Dec 12, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it says...
After the game, Bradley went to the press box to "introduce myself" to him. It was probably no coincidence that the announcer had been unfavorably comparing Bradley to Hamilton.
Neither of us was there, so you’re right, this is open to interpretation. Given Bradley’s past anger issues, I seriously doubt it was a “friendly” introduction. Daniels was right, there was no aggressive action, because he and Washington stopped it.
I just don’t want a guy like this on my team.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why not? His teammates love him
You’re always talking about how much locker room chemistry matters, and Bradley seems universally liked by his teammates.
The only incidents you can really hold against him are the cup incident and the Lefebvre incident. It’s hard to blame someone for getting into it Jeff Kent, and the ump incident was instigated by the ump.
by Wreckard on Dec 12, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of players get baited by umps.
Most of them do NOT do what Bradley did.
Yes, that NY Times link does appear to show that Bradley is liked by his teammates. Still, do the Cubs need to be on edge all year worrying about what he might do next to cause a distraction? Remember, he’s played most of his career (except in LA) in small media markets.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The state is, yeah.
But the market’s not particularly – especially for the Rangers. Pitching may be king in baseball. But football is king in Texas.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Media markets
don’t take into account different sports. It doesn’t work that way. Fact remains, Bradley has played in two big media markets, making that argument moot.
by lamentir on Dec 12, 2008 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.
I just heard today that one of the major newspapers in DFW is going to stop assigning beat reporters to the Rangers.
It’s not the size of the market per se, it’s how big the team is in relation to the media. Do you really think the DFW media gave Bradley as tough a time as the Chicago media would? The Cubs have a national following. The Rangers don’t.
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you spout off here.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Freudian slip?
The phrase “beat reporters” used in a Milton Bradley thread… freudian slip? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wish I knew what that meant.
Also wish I knew why you seem to show up here only to be contrary, or stir up trouble.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wish I knew why you kept saying that
You have horse-blinder opinions of me. Take them off. It’s not a me vs. you thing. Is it not OK to challenge what you say?
Even though it shouldn’t matter on what or who I comment to, if you would take time and look, I comment on other things. Sorry to disappoint.
by lamentir on Dec 15, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure it's OK.
You often do it in a not-so-nice way.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you should get your facts straight before you spout off here.
This is nice though.
by lamentir on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for posting that
I was stupidly going to do it myself until I saw yours buried in the Peavy thread. It certainly made me feel differently about Bradley and I don’t think a lot umps “bait” players with racial slurs as was supposedly done to Bradley.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 12, 2008 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
only if its
the guys in Cincinnati
in fact I might sign Milton just for that purpose
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This ain't the end, folks.
Stay tuned.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
reed johnson
what is reed johnson’s contract status?
by drodd on Dec 11, 2008 4:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
He is arb eligible and the Cubs are keeping him
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 11, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it is the end
I think Jim dropped the ball this time, in a big way. If you added Peavy to the current rotation you would have the beset rotation in baseball in the past 15-20 years. You’re telling me that a couple of below average players, a minor league prospect, a bad pitcher, and one actually decent ball player is too much to give up for Jake Peavy? I find this to be appalling.
Go ahead, get your left handed bat. Are the Cubs better with Abreau/Hermida/Ibanez/Bradley, or with Jake Peavy? Folks, their ain’t no question. What have Cedeno, Pie or Marquis done for the Cubs? Not a damn thing. Everyone can talk about how terrific Mark DeRosa was last year. I think most people feel that way because they’re emotionally attached; because he says the right things. I seriously believe that you don’t lose enough going from DeRosa to Fontenot, that it should prohibit you from getting a stud like Jake Peavy.
Another thing that I don’t understand is how signing a LH OF is more important than having the rotation they would have? You can pick any of the names the Cubs are talking about now, add it to the lineup that faced the Dodgers, and not one damn game changes. Not a single one of them. They scored a boatload of runs last year with the same lineup they have now. Adding one LH bat does not automatically balance out their lineup.
So what we have is a lesser ballclub today, than we had at the end of last season. All the while, at the Winter Meetings, Jimbo wastes his time talking to Towers and doesn’t accomplish a thing. I’m sure there are plenty of people who disagree with me to the 10th degree on this one. But in my opinion, the table scraps along with DeRo should in no way have been too much to give for a difference maker like Peavy. I said it a couple days ago and I’ll say it again. Zambrano is a maniac, Harden is incredibly injury prone, Dempster won’t duplicate. They may just need Peavy more than they think.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 5:03 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think youre overstating it
I wanted him as much as anyone, but not having doesnt preclude this team from winning, not in the slightest. I agree that he provided insurance against any injuries or drops in production amongst the staff. But lets not forget, Peavy has elbow problems of his own.
As for not including DeRosa, theres no chance Fontenot comes close to putting up DeRosas numbers in a full time role. Fontenot is a bit player, no more. He can help a couple days a week, but he wont match DeRosas output nor his versatility.
The LH hitting OF is important b/c the Dodgers series showed how static this lineup is, they didnt have to go to a single left handed pitcher the entire series
Furthermore, the deal was beyond just Cedeno, Pie and Marquis, that was the point; giving up 5 guys for one wasnt doable according to Hendry, And the third overall pick in the draft is hardly a table scrap and Zambrano may be a maniac, but he’s a maniac whos won 96 games by the time he’s 27
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never be able to put
up DeRo’s numbers? In 223 ABs he had 22 2Bs. DeRo had 30 in over 500 ABs. I’m telling you it would be close. And as for the lefty in the Dodgers series: Just one more lefty wouldn’t matter either. Its way overvalued. You would need to add 2-3 lefties to make the difference everyone claims it would.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sample size
i dont know what Fontenot is strong enough to do that throughout an entire season
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
*that*
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Fontenot is a great role player but, over a full season, I have a feeling his numbers would come way down to earth. I would NOT be confident going into ’09 with him as our starting second baseman.
by bluekoolaide on Dec 11, 2008 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we will remember you said this...
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 12, 2008 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doubtful talks are over..
Seems Hendry has to make certain he can move Marquis and SD doesn’t want Marquis. Also, Hendry wants to make certain he has a RF locked up. Towers needs to quit setting deadlines. He wanted this done before Thanksgiving…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand what you are saying...
…and my hope is Hendry got something else brewing (to fill other holes) that the Peavy deal would have kept him from doing.
We’ll see, but I agree Peavy would not have been overkill, because you do have question marks in the rotation.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 11, 2008 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd just like to take this opportunity to say:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Thanks for listening.
Seriously, though, this deal felt wrong the whole time. Like SD was trying to force it on the Cubs. I mean, getting an elite starting pitcher is fine… except we really don’t need an elite starting pitcher as much as, say, some pop in the outfield bats, or some reasonably priced prospects for the farm system, or maybe a lefty for the bullpen, or perhaps pretty much any other part of the organization. If we can steal Peavy, fine. If we have to give… well, anything significant for him… uuuuhhh, we’re probably okay without, thanks!
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 5:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Really?
We need prospects for the farm system more than somebody who would immediately be our best pitcher? A lefty for the bullpen is more important than acquiring a number 1 starter? Yeah, you’re right, Jake Peavy isn’t worth much at all. I think we’d be better off with Marquis. Makes sense.
by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
we will regret not getting peavy and i’m 100% sure of that!!!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 11, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We could be selling high on DeRo, and getting one of the best pitchers in the game.
But nahhh, that’s not too important….
by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree.
The fact he wasted the whole damn week on Peavy and didn’t get jack squat done is crazy. Hendry is not a good GM. Its easy to sign guys like Sori, Z, and Lilly when you throw crazy money at them. The backloaded contracts, and Marquis’ alone is costing his butt now. Hendry is completely overrated.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 8:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No one has any idea what Hendry did or didn't do.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 10:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've got a good idea of what he didn't do.
He sure as hell didn’t make the ballclub any better.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
...or any worse.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And hey I also know what he didn't do.
He didn’t overpay for the LH OF he saw, wasting money because of impatience.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 12, 2008 6:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At times...
…I am critical of Hendry, but I will wait until April 1st to determine how good an offseason he had.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Dec 12, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
+1 and Rec'd
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 12, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um it might be fair to wait till April 6
The Yankee games are not real.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 12, 2008 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
How much of a difference would Jake Peavy had made during the last two playoff appearances for the Cubs? NONE. Maybe they win a Peavy start (though Peavy’s playoff numbers are not good… small sample size… i know).
But Jake Peavy does push these two playoff squads into the second round. Maybe, just maybe Hendry realized that a.) he had some valuable trade commodities and b.) getting Peavy did not solve the Cubs biggest problems.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you dont know what...
having peavy would have done. predicting the past is about as senseless as predicting the future. we dont necessarily have to have peavy as of right now but you never have enough #1 caliber pitching.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 11, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
predicting the past?
You can look at the past and see why they lost. From that you can look at what needs to improve and improve it. It wasn’t the pitching the last two years it was the inability to score runs.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And one
lefty bat is not going to solve those issues. You make it sound like Babe Ruth is out and about looking for a deal. Look at the names, look at who is available. Not one LH bat that the Cubs have a remote chance at getting will make the impact Peavy would. This is mindless. Its so simple. There is not doubt in my mind, 98% of people here when you look at this offseason, next season, will see it as a job terribly done.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what the hell are you talking about?
Seriously? I don’t care what pitcher you add to the Cubs rotation. When you score 14 runs over two post seasons then the offense is not the problem. No pitcher was going to make the difference. You realize a starter starts one game in each of these post seasons, right? A lefty bat does change it. It means that a pitcher cannot freaking pound one side of the plate and get comfortable there. It means that there is balance to the line-up. It means that the opposing manager actually has to gameplan since he cannot have one freaking reliever work the 2-6 hitters. No, its not adding Babe Ruth. Its adding some freaking balance and if you don’t think that the biggest need for the Cubs is some balance in the line-up then you not only missed the NLDS the last two years but you also missed a team that despite scoring a lot of runs also stranded a staggering number of runners.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 10:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What the hell I'm talking about:
One hitter inserted into the lineup would not have prevented that complete mess that was the NLDS. So the LH bat has 4 hits every game in that series; who the hell is hitting him in? Torre would have left any reliever in to pitch to whoever was coming up, because no one was hitting. One guy hit, and that was Derrek Lee. How the hell can offense be such a problem when you have the best offense in baseball all year? You mean to tell me that if that series is played again tomorrow its the same outcome because of the lack of a left handed hitter? Hell no. The attitude and preparation was the problem in the playoffs. Not the offense. Was it the lack of a LH bat that made every infielder have an error in game 2? Was it the lack of a LH bat that made Ryan Dempster walk the world? Hell not it wasn’t. It was preparation. Not the offense. A offense as God damn good as the Cubs’ was all last year, doesn’t go into the playoffs and underachieve just because they don’t have a LH bat. And don’t give me any junk about the playoffs being premiere pitchers. CC Sabbathia is premier, and they handled him.
The Cubs played Fontenot. He’s left handed. If thats all that was holding them back how come they didn’t win game 3? Sure, he had a few knocks, but again, it doesn’t matter because no one was going to drive him in.
It is absolutely crazy in my mind to not give up some of the rumored packages for Peavy. If it truly was a 7-1 deal like its being reported now, then I have no problem digging in. But if its a 4-1, or 5-1 like earlier reported, I think it should have been done.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what difference would Peavy have made in the NLDS
If a more balanced lineup wouldnt have changed anything, neither would one pitcher, especially one with a less than remarkable post season record.
It was a 3 game cluster!@$%, what can you do?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 11, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy would've either been...
the no 1 or no 2 pitcher in that series. Do you really think the outcome would have been different?
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 12, 2008 1:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats not what you're claiming
above. You implied offense was the only problem. And if I chose between a LH bat and Peavy, I’d chose the arm.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 6:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Its not just about the fact that its one hitter, its about that it changes the composure of the line-up. There is a damn reason that the Cubs struggle against certain kinds of pitchers and its, IMO, because those pitchers just go out there and pound one side of the plate. They get comfortable and settle in.
A starting pitcher is not the difference.
by dmlichte on Dec 12, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I'm telling you
adding just one lefty isn’t going to make the difference either! Jake Peavy would do more for the Cubs than any LH OFer they acquire will. I don’t think there is any question.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well if its an upgrade over Fukudome
wouldnt that make a difference? dont discount that factor either
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm stunned
that you guys think ONE LH bat will make that much of a difference, to wear it would out produce Peavy. Even when they acquire him, they are still another LH bat short of that difference.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
bad grammar
“where”
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
another fix
when they acquire a LH bat, they will still be one more short.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
predicting the past!
LOL. Good laugh of the day. :)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 12, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Might as well add no one then.
Raul Ibanez, Milton Bradley and Bobby Abreu wouldn’t have won this team a game in either of the past 2 playoff series.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
A strong lefthanded bat in the middle of the line-up for the playoffs would have made a big difference.
by dmlichte on Dec 11, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Mark Texiera or David Ortiz would have helped.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A left handed Bat would have helped
But make no mistake of it, the Cubs made Lowe, Billingsley and the Japanese pitcher look like they were Cy Young.
by NYCUB FAN on Dec 11, 2008 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh...
Our team ERA was fifth best in the MLB last season. Our hits allowed led the league. Most strikeouts, and lowest batting average against. STARTING PITCHING IS NOT OUR WEAK POINT. The money could be (IMHO) better spent on bats, or getting good prospects and developing them to replace our aging core players in a few years. We already have the pitching to win now. Yes, Peavy would be a great addition, but why should we pay through the nose now when we could either wait and get him cheaper later, or get a number of prospects and sift through them over the next few years so we have players to plug in when DLee and Sori and Aramis start having problems with aging. I don’t want to go for broke just to get everything ‘just so’ right now at the expense of having a second division team in 2013.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My biggest fear
this whole time has been how unreliable this staff really is. You have no idea what Zambrano you’re going to get. Dempster will not repeat what he did last year. Rich Harden might wake up tomorrow and his arm is broke in 19 different places. Ted Lilly is solid and reliable. Then we have Jason Marquis, which they probably will still trade. But who do they throw then? Marshall? Well, there goes you’re backup plan for a Harden injury.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Round and round they go...
1. Z has issues, yes, but so far he has gotten the job done enough of the time (except in the post-season) that he is, IMHO, a valuable investment. Dempster MAY not repeat what he did this year… or maybe he will; no way of knowing until next year. Harden is a concern; however, I seem to recall a certain Cubs pitcher koff*WOOD*koff who also had injury issues…. Lilly is, well, Lilly. Marquis is here for now; IF and WHEN he is traded, we can start worrying about finding a replacement, if Jim hasn’t already done that. Marshall is still here as a backup. Then we have Spellcheck and Guzman. I would think that, between these eight names, we should – at any given point in the season – be able to find five guys to go out and start.
2. If Z and Harden and the rest of our starting rotation can get injured, Peavy can get injured too. What then?
3. Spring training is two months off. Why do we have to get all the pieces right this very second? And why do we have to give up four or five guys to get one superpitcher when we could give up one or two (or maybe even some minor league talent) to get a good number 4 or 5 starter?
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 12, 2008 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We need bats
…(where is Sammy Sosa when you need him?)
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 12, 2008 1:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
he can get injured, but come on man, who is more likely, Harden or Peavy? And as far as this very second, its not the timing, its the player. You get a guy like Peavy ASAP. And you do the trade because Peavy makes a much bigger impact that a good 4 or 5. Don’t settle for decent 4s and 5s.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 6:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Harden is more likely to get injured...
…and while we need to have a contengency plan in place (Marshall, Spellcheck, Guzman), we might not need it (crosses fingers). I just don’t see the logic behind shelling out so much for a guy who fixes a problem we don’t have yet. It’s like those annoying collector types who feel thay have to have every variant of every Star Wars figure EVAR (apologies to whomever on this board fits that description. I don’t hate you. But seriously, they’re toys. Take them out of the boxes already).
As far as your second point goes, if we could have gotten Peavy for a good price, I would have said make the deal. But Towers was trying to force Hendry to pay a seller’s price in a buyer’s market. Sometimes the best thing you can do in a negotiation is walk away. Towers will eventually realize that he’s going to have to take a hit on this deal, and then Hendry will trade a few guys and get Peavy for a much better price; or Towers will get stuck with Peavy and his owner will be pissed.
I suspect this deal will get revived shortly after New Year’s, and we’ll get another shot. If the price is right then, Hendry will make the deal, and if not, he’ll find somebody else to put in the mix. Either way, our rotation is still going to be incredible next year.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 12, 2008 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
More
http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/angels/la-sp-angels12-2008dec12,0,322033.story?track=rss
"How's your mother?"
"She's on her way out."
"We all are. Act accordingly."
by louslovechild on Dec 11, 2008 6:55 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So, I guess the question now, after all the conflicting reports, is
Is this deal all dead, or just mostly dead?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 7:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
no there was no 'do not resuscitate order' so the hospital has it on permanent life support
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on Dec 11, 2008 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly dead is still partly alive.
Have fun storming the castle.
by N Oakley on Dec 12, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB.COM VIDEO
Duquette says it was more of ownersip and payroll why the deal fell through. The other stories from the Tribune and sun times say it was the Padres wanting too much. Wonder what the real story is? I personaly thought that the Pads were asking for too much. Anyway, just a thought.
by Jayjayblue on Dec 11, 2008 8:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So the team
President is a liar? Great. That sounds fantastic. The next owner will be frugal. Boy, this shaping up great. I do not understand, in any way how the hell they couldn’t get this done. Who gives a squat about Vitters and the bunch. What are those poeple going to bring to the table THIS COMING YEAR? This team is built to win now. Sori, Aram, and Lee aren’t going to be productive forever. But hey, we’ll just wait 3 years for Vitters.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 11, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vitters....
one more year. He will be up in 2009.
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 12, 2008 1:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean 2010
but I bet it wouldnt be till ’11
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
2010 September callup...
… 2011 as a starter. We hope.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 12, 2008 12:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs
are built to win now. Right now. No one can argue that. They already have all the chips pushed in the middle. They’re too far in to decide to hold onto the future, and give up on what you’ve built: which is a team to win NOW. Look at the money that was spent two offseasons ago. By the time Vitters will be up, Lee will be old or not around, Aram will have peaked, as will Soriano. The likelihood that the Cubs are revamped by that time to keep winning is not in their favor. I believe their window is open now, not in 2011.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
why wouldnt they be revamped?
If they keep spending, they can replace Lee and Ramirez when their deals are up, though I think Ramirez will still hold some value when his current deal is up, but I suspect Lee will be gone once his deal is done.
The franchise has the luxury of money, not Steinbrenneresque mind you, but they can certainly have a top 5 payroll….so to say the team will suddenly fall off a cliff in 2012 isnt necessarily correct.
Now that can be taken one of two ways
1-Vitters is expendable b/c he can be replaced via free agency now or in 2012ish
2-Vitters can be a part of the next decade, but not the focal point b/c the current core can be replaced with FA and augmented by Vitters
Point being, the team has the luxury of augmenting its own players with free agents, not the smartest way to do business, but is an option they have.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Luxury of money?
Where is it now? Oh yeah… resting in Marquis’ bank account.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
youre being ridiculous
and arguing for the sake of arguing. The money is in flux b/c of the ownership situation. This is a national franchise and pulls in 3-4 million people a year, countless merch etc etc. and has tons of revenue
we arent the Royals, the Cubs can spend with the NYs, LAs and Boston; its all a matter of how committed the ownership is to winning.
the peavy deal fell through b/c Towers was asking too much
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, so
sarcasm isn’t an option here. You’re telling me it has nothing to do with the back-loaded contracts and the fact that Marquis is due way too much money? Denying that, makes you ridiculous.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What does Jason Marquis' contract have to do with the Cubs' payroll in 2010?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 12, 2008 6:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well played, sir
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't talking about 2010.
What I’m debating is the fact because the Cubs have a great following and do have money, doesn’t mean they can automatically revamp the team when the current key players are on the outs. Marquis’ contract is proof that they can’t just spend money blindly and think they can just buy reinforcements later. And further proof is the fact its only going to get harder in 2010.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My initial contention
was to peoples assertion that the team will suddenly drop off in 2012, while ignoring the fact that they spent 300M in one offseason, so clearly they have the financial wherewithal to compete in FA.
Your comment about Marquis had nothing to do with my point, so that was what I took to be ridiculous.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Its not ridiculous.
Just think for a second. They may have money, but as long as they keep signing contracts that they have been, they not immune to falling off. Sure they not going to go from 97 wins to 65 in 2012, but they won’t be able to just revamp everything. Look at the current status now. The contracts they have now, are prohibiting them from doing bigger and better things.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 12, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point, but
I suppose my point of view was that one or two players could be replaced at a time, first Lee then Ramirez and so on via free agency b/c they have the means to do so.
And when those contracts come off the books that money can be put back into the team…so I dont think their window closes in 2011, it will be propped up by different players and different contracts.
So if they truly want to be like the Red Sox, the window will always be open, thanks in part to spending power.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember that the same off-season in which they signed Marquis for 3/$21
they also signed DeRo for 3/$13M. Far from prohibiting them from doing bigger and better things, DeRo’s contract makes him a very tradable commodity. Rich Harden is also very tradable at $7M.
Every contract is a gamble. Lilly’s, DeRo’s, and Ramy’s look good; Marquis’, Dome’s, and Sori’s don’t look so good. That happens to every team. It won’t be the sole reason that the Cubs do or don’t compete in 2012. The health of guys like Soto and Marmol will be just as big of a factor.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 12, 2008 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nicely said
I should done that..ha
I think Domes is by far the worst, 48M and he might not even be a full timer.
They vastly outbid anyone for Soriano, but I think they felt compelled after missing Beltran and Furcal
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
you can compare contracts going sour to possibility of injury. When you sign a contract, majority of the information is in front of you. You can research it. Not quite the same with injuries.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 13, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you're making good points, but the "300M in one offseason" isn't one of them
This is probably a nit, but they didn’t “spend” $300M in one offeseason.
Remember, each of those deals covered multiple years so you’d have to total up all the years those contracts covered and divide that into $300M. Then you’d get an better read on how much they “spent” that year. Or go through each contract and figure it out year by year.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Youre mincing words..
.Its like how people on espn are saying “oh the Yankees just spent a quarter of a billion dollars on pitching”
I suppose what I meant to say was they made the choice to commit 300M dollars, over a period of years yes, in one off season….so theyre not afraid to spend to keep the team in contention
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 12, 2008 7:31 PM CST