Will the OF Market Get Started Already?

by JohnM on Dec 11, 2008 3:43 PM CST Comment 123 comments

Is it strange that the Winter Meetings are just about done and none of the various FA OFs that have been discussed (Abreu, Bradley, Dunn, Ibanez) have been signed yet?

And none of the potential trade targets (Hermida, Teahen, DeJesus, etc) have been dealt?

Maybe I wouldn't find it strange if it weren't for the fact the following teams have been reported as being interested in one or more of these players in the last few days:

Cubs, Mets, Phillies, Mariners, Angels, Braves, Nationals, Rays, Dodgers, Royals, Reds

I would have thought that one of them would have made a move by now, but they all seem to be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Or, maybe the FAs are holding firm, playing teams against each other? Any bets that at least one of the Big 4 OF FAs gets signed today?

EDIT: Ibanez reportedly signed with the Phillies Friday morning for 3 years $30M (link)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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doubt it

there have been little to no rumors concerning those four outfielders. I’d say most of them will be signed before the new year though..

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 11, 2008 3:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Actually

I read that the Cubs met wit Bradley’s agent on Monday, then with Bradley on Tuesday, and that Cubs trainers have checked him out sometime in the last month. Then I read that he has gone off the check out what other teams are offering before circling back.

There just seems to be no urgency in this space, despite the multiple FAs and even more teams competing for them.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 11, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's because

none of them are that great.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Dunn and Bradley are impact players

but I see what you mean about the others.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 11, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is also that these guys are looking for big contracts

and based on their age, injury history and/or the economic conditions, no team is interested in spending that kind of money. I suspect that all of them will accept less than they were originally asking.

It’s also not just the big name FA outfielders, lesser names like Pat Burrell are still out there. I suspect he’ll end up in the AL somewhere.

by rlpete on Dec 11, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dominoe effect?

Maybe teams are waiting to see what happens with Manny first.

Dunn, Abreu, Bradley, & Burrell, Ibanez willbe seriously suited DREDS signs

If not, then what’s the problem?

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Manny's at another level really

and I would have thought that everyone else (everyone besides the Dodgers, Yankees and Mets) would want to get one of these other guys signed before the two teams that don’t get Manny start throwing money around because they didn’t get Manny.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 11, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Anaheim, LA, Boston and Washington are going to throw big money at someone… Gotta wait til Manny and Tex sign.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This winter meetings got me excited

thinking the cubs would finnaly do something.

I was wrong.

What to do, with Larry Hughe?

by Rudey on Dec 11, 2008 4:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes Rudey, doing NOTHING right is better than doing something wrong

CONFUSE-US —-great Cubs philosopher

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Im all for another 97 win team

But i feel like we have actually gotten worse after the K. Wood situation, i wanna see an improvement somewhere. Im actually scared of our bullpen situation and how strong Mets, Red Sox, Yankees, and the Angels are becoming while we stand by and watch.

What to do, with Larry Hughe?

by Rudey on Dec 11, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Wood thing is looking worse and worse week by week

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Easy there Big Woody Lover

You’ll feel better when Kerry goes on the DL sometime in June

I wish him the best and maybe in 5-6 years we can bring him back for sentimental reasons, if not just mental

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If he goes on the DL, he wont be around in 5 or 6 years

And if theyre willing to take on 60M for Peavy, and it was added into their proposed budgets to the final bidders, they couldnt have gotten maybe 8-10/yr for Wood.

This all adds up to make us the 2009 version of the 08 Mets, Gregg is gonna fall flat on his face and marmol will get over worked b/c of that and they’ll lose a lot of leads from the 7th on

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Woody will out of baseball in 5-6 years

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 12, 2008 1:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So did you mean...

…“bring him back” to let him throw out a first pitch or something?

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone is waiting on the big targets

I think a lot of teams are waiting on the bigger targets to fall. I can see things moving more briskly once Tex signs, or once it becomes clear what the final few teams for Tex are.

In regards to the trade targets -

Hermida – There’s been a lot of rumors, but the reported demands have been high. The Marlins supposedly asked the Rays for two pitchers from Davis/Hellickson/Niemann/Talbot … a package that we can’t match even if you take the two pitchers with the lowest values, imo (Niemann/Talbot, and I’m a big Talbot fan). The Marlins don’t have a need to move Hermida, as they can fit him in financially by most indications.

Royals – They want to move Guillen, but that likely won’t happen. They want to compete in 2009, so DeJesus likely wasn’t going anywhere unless it was a “you can’t pass that”: type of deal. Teahen has struggled, but at the end of the day, I think he’ll be the one that gets moved. Problem is … keeping Teahen’s versatility as a depth piece that challenges Guillen has value, so they need to get enough value to justify a trade. I won’t be surprised if this doesn’t happen until January, but I do expect them to deal someone.

____________________

Two guesses:

First to fall – Raul Ibanez. I think someone picks him up soon.

Last to fall – Adam Dunn. I think teams are wary of giving him big time money, and I think Dunn might think he deserves top shelf money. I wouldn’t be all that stunned if Dunn ended up taking a short deal, say, 2 years.

by toonsterwu on Dec 11, 2008 4:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

The last man standing is going to get Kyle Lohsed. I hope the Cubs are willing to wait for that last man, because I don’t see a big enough difference between the 4 LH bats to warrant overpaying.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn would be great. Think about having a guy who instantly becomes the best power hitter on the team.

by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and

the worst ever in right field!!

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 11, 2008 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

How so?

Dunn is really underrated in the field. Check out some of the defensive metrics, he isn’t nearly as bad as people seem to think. I’ll be very happy if the Cubs sign either Bradley or Dunn.

by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I want niether

the end

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 11, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why not?

by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd love for the Cubs to sign Dunn

besides the HRs, RBIs, walks etc. etc., it’d be fun to see if Dunn’s defense could elevate cubsluver22 into MDB or DaBard territory… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Now, that's just stupid. ;)

by N Oakley on Dec 12, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

actually, I think I mistyped...

now that I think about it, I think cl22 had more of a problem with dunn’s offense than defense. something about all those k’s definitely rubbed cl22 the wrong way. so I amend my previous post to dunn’s k’s instead of his defense.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, my attempt at humor in using DaBard's favorite word was unclear.

If I had used stupid 3 or more times in a single sentence, perhaps the attempt would be clearer.

by N Oakley on Dec 12, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ahhh... missed that.

it’d be most interesting if Fox Mulder, Frank Black, Clarisa Starling or some other FBI criminal profiler-type reviewed all the BCB comments and came up with profiles for each of us.

Most interesting…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or could have gone with...

…“Shut up. And then shut up some more.”

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All Dunn has done

is hit HRs or Ks, you want Dave Kingman back?

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 11, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

he also drives in 100 runs and walks 100 times and has a career 381 OBP

but lets just ignore those

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thanks bren, I was just about to post that.

He becomes the best OBP guy on the team, he becomes the best SLG guy on the team. He isn’t nearly as bad on defense as the reputation he’s gotten around here, and his arm is fine. Dunn would be great. As I said before, I would love to have Bradley too, either one is fine to me.

by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Id go for Dunns upside

and mental stability

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well yeah, but I'm a lot more worried about performance on the field.

Like I said, I’d be fine with either, but Bradley would probably be a little better in the field. I don’t think the mental stability is really too big of an issue, he’s certainly not a good guy, but didn’t seem to let that affect his play last year.

by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If I had to pick one of the four

it’d be Dunn, but I don’t think the Cubs like him. I think Dunn is the least likely to end up a Cub.

by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt Bradley would be better in the field

he was primarily a DH in Texas and has had serious knee surgery, while Dunn wont be confused with Andruw Jones, I doubt he’s as bad as the anti-dunn crowd makes him out to be

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

dunn or braun defensively

yeh, braun is a lf

and dunn a rf

which do you consider worse?

by tim815 on Dec 11, 2008 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

obviously braun is much worse defensively. check out some metrics, bud.

by sackings108 on Dec 11, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

bud, i didnt know why you were bringing up Braun

there are too many fielding metrics to place definitive value on any particular one

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

People lets not get crazy over HRs when they don't count

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 12, 2008 1:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

when don't they count?

by sackings108 on Dec 12, 2008 2:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think on Wednesdays

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Dec 12, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another upside to Dunn that I don't see mentioned a lot...

…is, aside from his brief stint in Arizona this year, he’s always played in the NL Central. He knows the parks, he knows NL pitching and he’s logged well over 500 ABs for the last five years running. Look at the man’s OPS+ over the course of his career – he’s always been a well-above-average major league hitter. Always.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's also been amazingly consistent...

40 HR, OBP of around .388. If he could play a tolerable RF, he’d be exactly what we want.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 11, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is why

defensive metrics are mostly B.S.

Trust me, if you saw Dunn in the field on a daily basis, you would understand why he is considered a defensive liabilty. It’s not just the errors he makes, it is when and how he makes them. After you have seen him drop an easy pop up or throw to the wrong base in the late innings of a tight ball game a few times, you will get it.

by azjazzman on Dec 12, 2008 1:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it.

Do you think that the people who come up with play-by-play defensive metrics are 9-to-5ers who got a job with BIS or STATS after going through a four-year course at Kaplan?

The people that figure these things out – trust me – watch a hell of a lot of baseball. They aren’t idiots – they’re fans, who care passionately about the game.

Yes, it’s more painful to watch Dunn lumber over to a ball and drop it than it is to watch Griffey gracefully glide to within 10 feet of a ball because his damaged knees won’t let him cover as much ground as he did a decade ago – but the outcome is the same! Your added frustration doesn’t make Dunn any less of a fielder than Griffey.

The reason defense is hard to judge by the eyes is that it’s a lot easier to pick out the misplays – but those misplays mean that the outfielder did at least one thing right in getting to the ball in the first place, and that’s the single-most important skill for a fielder to have.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2008 1:48 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs

bingo

by philadelphiacub on Dec 12, 2008 7:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so getting to the ball and misplaying is more important...

than knowing your limitations and playing the ball of the wall or letting it fall in front of you?

There are just too many different metrics for me to put much stock in any one over the other.

Whats the truest test; Fielding percentage? Range Factor? Zone Rating? Ultimate Zone rating?Range Factor/nine innings? Range Factor/game?

Its harder to quantify those ratings to fans b/c they seem so abstract and intangible and constantly changing.

So i ask you, which one is best and how do you decide the mean range/zone?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody seems to have this problem with offensive metrics.

UZR is now available on Fangraphs, and it’s the best defensive metric that I know of (notice I didn’t say best available). It’s one that MLB teams have been buying access to for years.

UZR is a plus/minus rating, so it’s runs saved/allowed relative to the league average. An average UZR, then, is 0.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because offensive metrics are much less subjective...

and easier to visualize. Nobody debates HR, 2B, walks, etc. They’re obvious. OBP, AVG, SLG, OPS are all easy to calculate.

Fielding is a much bigger gray area. It’s hard to trust measures of distance covered, positioning, arm strength/accuracy, etc. It’s also hard to judge the trajectory and velocity of a ball hit and how that factors in.

I’m not saying that the fielding measures currently available are wrong – just that they’re MUCH more subjective and harder to interpret than offensive metrics.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah thats pretty much my contention

the lack of clarity in terms of methodology.

So is UZR the one thats slices the field up into pie pieces? So its a measure of can cover the most zones?

Does saving runs take the baserunner into account; his speed and overall baserunning ability?

id like to know more about them, mostly how do they decide the mean?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's a rough description of how UZR works.

The field is, as you say, divided into zones – the available version of UZR uses the BIS data and I’ve never seen a reference map of that; I’ve seen the STATS and Project Scoresheet zone diagrams and I presume they’re similar.

When a ball is hit into play, an observer (actually I believe there are several to provide crosschecking) marks what type of batted ball (fly, line, ground, popup) it was and what zone it was in. (Other data is recorded as well, but let’s keep it simple for right now.)

Let’s say that a ground ball in a particular zone of interest gets fielded for an out by the shortstop 40% of a time. While Player X is playing shortstop, say only 30% of ground balls in that zone are fielded for outs. If 10 ground balls are hit through that zone, Player X is one play below average for that zone.

Plays are converted to outs by multiplying by the average value in runs of making a play in that zone (off the top of my head I think it’s close to .7 for infielders and .8 for outfielders).

Then, a player’s +/- rating for every zone is summed up and that’s a player’s total UZR rating.

It’s a similar proceedure for outfielders, except a consideration for the distance of the ball is made as well. Outfielders are not credited or debited for the contribution of their arm in throwing out baserunners or holding them; MGL (who created UZR) has a seperate outfield arms measure that he uses that Fangraphs doesn’t have.

I’m oversimplifying here – there are a lot of other adjustments that UZR makes, like controlling for the park, whether or not a ground ball was sharply or softly hit, some other things.

The things that UZR does not account for that people will ask about often are a fielder’s starting positioning and the batter’s speed. (At least I don’t THINK the batter’s speed is accounted for; MGL certainly has speed scores available and could do that if he really wanted to, I s’pose.) There are arguements over how responsible a fielder is for his positioning – but they’re all academic because nobody records that data.

And no, UZR isn’t perfect – nothing based on sample data is. Whenever possible it’s best to use multiple years of data (this is also true for hitting, incidently).

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Thanks, well said

Its as I suspected though, no perfect measure has been created yet. I think the eye test still holds sway for a lot of people.

Just watching Dunn, most people can objectively say he’s not an above average defensive outfielder. But I can certainly see the need for a measuring stick.

Ive taken stats while I was in school, it wasnt my strong suit by any means, but these fielding stats arent as clear as the hitting statistics, in a way I suppose their complexity is their undoing.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but nobody says they can't trust offensive metrics...

…because they can’t decide between using batting average, OPS and linear weights.

There are a lot of difference defensive metrics. Some are better than others. Once you have the better ones, you can ignore the rest. If you have UZR, you don’t need FP or RF.

Generally – owing a lot to the smaller sample size, but also the data collected as you mention – one season of defensive metrics are roughly half as reliable as a season of offensive metrics.

But we have years of data on guys like Dunn, and so we should be able to get a pretty good read on his defensive capabilities. Nobody’s arguing that he isn’t bad. But we can compare him to the other bad defensive outfielders and make judgements.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not trying to get in on this debate

just wanted to add a side comment -

I think that defensive metrics have value. After all, all statistics have value. They are a snapshot of something, and it’s how you interpret it. With defensive metrics, I think the best way to go about it is to look at, well, as many as you can and to come up with a general picture. I don’t know how much I buy every single defensive metric on their own, as there are certainly flaws with everything, but in looking at the broader picture, I think you can gain some general ideas out of them.

by toonsterwu on Dec 12, 2008 10:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have to sharply disagree.

There are “tiers” of defensive stats – UZR, the Fielding Bible +/- and PMR, the top tier, are all pretty close to each other. And if you wanted to look at all of them, that’s fine.

But if you have UZR, and you have a player’s zone rating – or his FRAR from Baseball Prospectus, or his Range Factor – you don’t need to look at all of them, because we know that UZR is better than the others.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Dec 12, 2008 10:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

um i'm not disagreeing with you

that post was loosely meant to say that I agree with you.

by toonsterwu on Dec 12, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you missed my point...

People trust offensive statistics because they are easy to interpret. They can see the individual pieces with their own eyes. Thus, it’s easy to understand what they mean.

Because fielding measures are so subjective, it’s hard for anyone to trust which one better than another. I think the risk of measurement error makes it such that saying defensive metrics are half as reliable as offensive metrics. For one, you have to have a good idea of what you’re measuring to get a sense of the reliability of the measure. If you’re consistently mismeasuring, you’ll underestimate lack of reliability. And since defense is so much harder to measure, there’s much more room for mismeasurement (and even poor interpretation of how much mismeasurement there is).

As for your point (which is unrelated somewhat), there is some mistrust among offensive stats. People trust OPS for the most part, but there’s still skepticism by the masses on VORP and such. That may give you a better idea of why people don’t trust defensive metrics as much as standard offensive metrics.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LSA.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

whoa, ibanez is supposedly seeking

3 years, 35 million way more than i expected

by toonsterwu on Dec 11, 2008 7:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Someone will give it to him.

Let it be the Mets.

by DGU on Dec 11, 2008 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wow, its gonna be the Angels I bet

provided they miss tex

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Watch Anaheim get Dunn.

LA, Washington, NYM, Anaheim and Boston all have money to burn…

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 11, 2008 7:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They'll start at the real winter meetings..

Seeing as its not really winter yet.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 5:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The winter meetings are...

a lot like the iowa primaries….yes I said it. The media has just gotten too powerful and we are inundated with information and speculation that we have no idea what to believe and in the end, 99% of what we hear is wrong.

The news gets out too quick that its no longer helpful and its just gossip really.

by northpaw22k on Dec 11, 2008 7:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

No!

Really?

by leothelip on Dec 11, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey!

Those of us in Iowa only get about six months off from national politics every four years. Stop talking about the caucases! :P

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 11, 2008 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no comment on Iowa caucases

that tradition needs to end

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Al's coming to lay the law down

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 11, 2008 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ha, I'll redact it

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 9:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn.

Given the options out there. It should be Dunn we are after. I know RF might be an adventure, but the man can hit.

Bradley will not last an entire season.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 11, 2008 9:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Could that be one of the reasons why Hendry pulled the plug on the Peavy deal?

Hendry (actually Lou) desperately wants a LHB RF. Yet when Jim went window shopping at the Winter Meetings, he came down with a severe case of sticker shock.

However, he also found out that, if he makes DeRo available separately from the Peavy trade, he has a valuable trade chip — and he doesn’t have to ask for pitching in return.

How about one or another of:
1. DeRo to the Mets for Church, Mets also have to take Marquis; another Met comes to the Cubs.
2. DeRo to the Twins for Kubel and a prospect.
3. DeRo and Pie (or someone) to the Fish for Hermida; Fish flip DeRo.
4. DeRo to the Royals for DeJesús.
5. DeRo, Pie, and Hart/Gaudin to the O’s for Roberts; O’s flip DeRo for pitching or keep him at 2B and collect the draft picks.
6. DeRo and Marshall to the Rockies for Hawpe.
7. DeRo to the Rangers for Hank Blalock; try Blalock in RF (couldn’t be worse defensively than Dunn).
8. DeRo to the Cards for Ankiel. (I know that won’t happen without a third team intermediary; perhaps the Phillies.)
9. DeRo and Harden to the Dodgers for Ethier, keep Marquis.
10. DeRo to the Dads for Giles (if Giles will waive his NTC); Dads flip DeRo somewhere.
11. DeRo to the Braves for Kelly Johnson.

I’m sure I’ve missed a few, but you get the idea. Hendry can trade for a RF — someone whose contract is better than the 3/$30M he would give to Gameboard or Ibañez — and have enough payroll room for Randy Johnson or Furcal.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 9:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I like 6 the best

Hawpes a power hitter, and his home/road power splits are nearly identical. I guess none of those ideas are bad, I dont know about Ryan Church though, he’s never been a full timer.

I think Hermida is a real gamble for a team hoping to win now, and Blalock in RF has got to be worse than Dunn, and thats saying something

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that Blalock would be better than Dunn in RF after a full workload in ST,

if his attitude about the switch is OK. Having ex-teammates like Sori and DeRo (if he is still here) should help. Blalock is an excellent athlete who runs very well and has good hands; the main question mark is his throwing arm. He does K a lot, but he has tremendous power and a lot of experience batting 4th and 5th.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, lets not forget, Blalock isnt that good

he had 2 good season, hes not Adam Dunn

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 11, 2008 9:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you are way underrating DeRo

Ethier was only good because of many. Look at his stats with and without him. DeRo and Harden to the Dodgers for Ethier? Terrible trade. GAlmost all of these trades are bad for the Cubs. DeRo can fill in almost anywhere and also hit 20 homers with 87 rbi’s last year

by Rezze21 on Dec 11, 2008 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the first time anyone has ever accused DEROMYHERO of underrating DeRosa.

And will probably be the last.

I has a blog. | Ask a sabermagician!

by cwyers on Dec 11, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You don't think I'm always totally fair and unbiased???? :-)

Why not?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Part of the issue

is that DeRo and Harden are each going into the last years of their contracts while Ethier still has a ways to go before FA.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 11, 2008 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

11 potential trades.

1. Great Idea, do it in a second if possible. Love to shed Marquis salary

5. That’s too much to give up for 1 year of Roberts, take Pie and Hart and do it

6. I would do that in a second, call the Rockies up!

7. Send him to the Rangers for LH RF young David Murphy, just as good as Hermida right now with a lot more potential

9. Derosa + Marquis + 2 million for Either, book it. Yea, I know his numbers were better once Manny came, but putting him inbetween Aramis and Soriano is a pretty decent protection sandwich. He’s young and will only get better.

11. I don’t get it? What does Kelly Johnson do? Isn’t he a failed shortstop?

by MrShowtime on Dec 12, 2008 12:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

#9 never Harden stays with Cubs

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 12, 2008 1:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

quick thoughts on your trade ideas

1. So the Mets are going to put DeRosa in the OF? Because adding DeRosa and Marquis’ salary to the mix may limit their ability to add another bat. I think it comes down to who the said extra player is, but value wise, I think there’s some possibilities.

2. Unless it’s a quality prospect (and their system is a bit thin), I don’t think that’s enough. For me. Kubel is a platoon guy with defensive issues.

3. The Fish have been asking for the moon (asked the Rays for 2 of the following supposedly: Davis, Hellickson, Niemann, Talbot). Even assuming they lower the price (and they don’t have to), you’d have to buy that DeRosa can get a top prospect, which is iffy, but I’ll offer an idea below.

4. I’m not sure the Royals do this. They need DeJesus to compete next year, moreso than the value DeRosa could provide.

5. I’m not sure the Orioles do this. Not sure that’s enough. Gaudin is a non-tender possibility (Stark hinted at this … with the Peavy trade off, it’s a stronger possibility now that we aren’t dealing pen arms and we could save a few bucks). Orioles have a lot of pitching coming up so can DeRosa net a big enough return?

6. Don’t see the Rockies doing this. They have 2nd base and OF options.

7. Don’t think the Rangers do this. I think they’d look for something they could control a bit longer.

8. Maybe … but comes down to what the third team gives.

9. Don’t see the Dodgers doing this, to be honest. Value isn’t that bad. Yes, Ethier was helped by Manny … but look at Ethier’s numbers in his 3 years in the bigs. A .800+ OPS corner OF isn’t chopped liver, and if they buy him getting better, then 1 year of Harden and DeRosa likely isn’t enough.

10. It’s a thought … just comes down to who the third team is.

11. Don’t see the Braves doing this. Kelly Johnson is a solid young player who, if he’s even behind DeRosa, isn’t behind him by much.

_______________________________

Here’s a random thought that I think would have a better shot at netting Hermida (and I guess part a could be an idea for your 3rd team) -

a) Send DeRosa to the Indians (still looking for an infielder as Valbuena, who I think is overhyped, isn’t ready) for a couple prospects, one being an arm. I don’t think they’d fork over an Adam Miller led package, but maybe a Kelvin de la Cruz isn’t unrealistic. A 2nd piece would be needed,

b) Send said arm, Felix Pie and perhaps Wellington Castillo for Hermida. And yes, I think it might take that much.

by toonsterwu on Dec 12, 2008 6:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thoughts on your thoughts

1. The Mets may prefer to have a player they can use at 2B half the games and in the OF the other half, given the way they seem to view Castillo.
2. Not doubting what you say, I still like Kubel better than Ibanez.
4. Yeah, it seems that the Royals would be more interested in guys who will still be around past one year, although everyone can value the draft picks DeRosa offers at the end of the year, so who knows.
5. I think this one is very likely, although modified – the O’s were seeking Pie and Cedeno in the Peavy 3-way deals. What if you got the O’s Jason Donald from the Phillies in the 3-way? That could make some more sense to them.

Interesting Hermida package. I don’t think, though, the more I reflect on it, that the Cubs would trade DeRosa in a deal for Hermida, who has too many questions about him. That said, though, getting Hermida by trade allows the Cubs to get Furcal by FA, so maybe they would if they were sure they could get Furcal.

by DGU on Dec 12, 2008 6:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

regarding 4/5

4. I’m not sure the Royals would necessarily focus on cost-controlled players even if they did ponder dealing DeJesus. Rather, I think they think that they can make a run at the playoffs next year, or at least at a winning record, which would do a lot to change perceptions on the organization. That is, I think, if they pondered dealing DeJesus (which I doubt, since he’s their leadoff hitter), it would be to get talent that they equate to DeJesus’ value for next year.

5. The Orioles were supposedly seeking Pie and Cedeno for Garrett Olson. I don’t think Olson has Jason Donald’s value, but even if he did, I don’t think, with Utley’s injury, that they will deal Donald (and I can see Donald start the year at 2nd base and eventually be utilized a la DeRosa, at 2nd/SS/3rd/OF) when Utley returns. The Phillies weren’t rumored to be pondering dealing Donald in a trade for DeRosa … despite the fact that the Padres could use a shortstop (improved reports on Donald’s ability to play short, if i recall, although most expect that he will eventually move elsewhere in the long run). Their focus on DeRosa was also supposedly for LF. Short of it is, I’m not sure they would fork Donald over for DeRosa alone, and would you fork over more than DeRosa for Donald (I think their intent was to use DeRosa in LF with Donald at 2nd, although that’s a guess). With the Ibanez signing, I can see them staying pat on positional pieces and looking at adding pitching instead. In saying all this, if you can get Donald, then spinning Donald/Pie/Cedeno would likely be more than enough to grab Roberts, and Donald/Pie may be enough in of itself.

by toonsterwu on Dec 12, 2008 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought I had read Donald's name listed in one of the DeRosa rumors.

And if I was the Phillies, I’d be glad to have DeRosa as an upgrade on Feliz.

by DGU on Dec 12, 2008 8:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

on feliz

i think they love his glove enough there to live with him at 3rd, as they certainly have enough offense.

by toonsterwu on Dec 12, 2008 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There was talk of benching Feliz last year,

but they didn’t have anybody whose offense was good enough to justify the move.

Personally, I think the Phils want DeRo. They have said that they wanted him to play 2B until Utley returns, then play LF, but I think that was a smokescreen. I think they would move him to 3B when Utley returns (unless they have an injury somewhere else) and bench Feliz. DeRo appeals to them precisely because Werth is injury-prone and Feliz is out-prone.

That’s why they signed Ibañez anyway.

I don’t think that Donald was part of the Peavy trade because KT wanted pitchers. In a separate deal, maybe the Phils would trade Donald for DeRo.

DeRo to the Royals is a longshot, but there are two possible reasons why it could happen:
1. Dayton Moore has stated that he wants one veteran in his infield (at SS or 2B, with Aviles playing the other). That’s why he offered arb to Grud, and that’s why he has kicked the tires on Furcal. He wants an everyday player, so that eliminates guys like Aurilia.
2. Moore is the scout who originally signed DeRo for the Braves, so he knows DeRo very well.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 12, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley's defense

There have been a number of people saying MB is just a DH. The Cubs appear to view him differently. See Sullivan’s article:

Of the three, Bradley may be the best bet. He’s a switch-hitter — filling the need for a left-handed hitter — can play all three outfield spots, has the most speed and is the most athletic…. As a manager who likes the double switch, Piniella can move Bradley around in the late innings without worrying about a drop defensively.

We can certainly debate just how good MB’s defense is, but with a review like that I think the Cubs are probably going to like MB over the other 3 guys. Note, also, that Dunn’s name is not in any of the articles on the LH bats.

by DGU on Dec 12, 2008 6:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Two comments...

First, there’s no guarantee that Sullivan really knows what he’s talking about here. It could be that he’s speculating entirely without any real knowledge of the Cubs’ rationale for interest in Bradley.

Second, I’m in the camp that Bradley is a DH due to his brittleness, not his lack of ability. It’s the health issue that makes him a DH. While he can play a solid OF when healthy, playing the OF greatly increases the likelihood of Bradley breaking down again. It’s happened every year of his career, and most of the time it’s cost him a substantial amount of playing time.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 7:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree about Bradley's brittleness

which is why I really like Bradley as a signing if we have both Dome and Pie and really don’t like Bradley as a signing if we go into the season with Reed Johnson as Bradley’s backup.

Re: Sullivan: There’s always a good chance what you read in the newspaper is nonsense, but the impression I got from that article was that Sullivan at least thought he was representing Lou’s view.

by DGU on Dec 12, 2008 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like it a lot less if it costs a lot of money...

If he’s signed in a DeRosa type of deal (but with fewer years), it makes sense. But given his injury history and our lack of payroll flexibility at this point, I’m not excited about paying the going rate for a starting free agent corner OF (which is what I think he’ll get).

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I like the possibility...

…because what do they have to lose? The current core group has shown little backbone in two straight playoffs series and maybe they need a guy who is “aggressive”. From what I saw this year, the club needs a little more “fight”.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 12, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ahh... the behind-the-scenes campaign to bring back Michael Barrett begins...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Barrett...

…was a dufus.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 12, 2008 10:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but you can't deny he gave this club a little more "fight"... ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that doesnt make it the right choice

He has played all three OF positions in the past, doesnt mean he can do it now, not with the number of games he’s DH’d and his knee injuries

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just because a guy has been DH'd does not mean he couldn't play the field.

It means that his team liked other guys in the field more for whatever reason. It seems the Cubs think MB can play the field; they may even be right.

by DGU on Dec 12, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, it doesn't mean that...

but the fact that he’s proven repeatedly to be unable to stay healthy while playing in the field certainly suggests he couldn’t play the field.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Look, the guy spent last year recovering from a major knee injury.

The type of injury that usually takes elite athletes more than a full year to get back to 100%. I’m no M.D., but I would expect his ability play the OF to be much improved this year.

by N Oakley on Dec 12, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Look beyond last year...

By no means would I base my argument about Bradley on just last year. I was referring to his entire career. The guy has a LONG history of not being able to stay healthy. Despite being a very productive player when healthy, he has managed more than 100 games in the field just ONCE in his career.

I would agree that his ability to play the field should be improved this year. But improved to what? He’s never been able to stay healthy. Why should I assume he’ll be able to stay healthy now.

For clarification – I’m not saying Bradley is an incapable fielder. I’m saying he’s long been incapable of staying healthy. There’s a difference.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lets not forget his career year wasnt that great or mindblowing...

22 HR and 77 RBIs? really, this guy is probably going to want at least what Ibanez just got, 3/30M, and hes pretty much Mark DeRosa and he’s never even played over 141 games.

This would be a bad, bad idea. If hes better in the field than Dunn, thats fine, but will it matter when hes only played over 100 games three times in his career?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW...

…I got a Twitter from Gordon Wittenmyer last night that said:

Next up for Cubs: trying to land Milton Bradley to fill their LH bat need.

Now, obviously it’s impossible to tell whether Gordo is basing this brief statement on anything factual. But it’s my impression that the word on the ground is, for better or worse, Bradley is the current frontrunner.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh, i hope not

this just seems like making a move for the sake of it. The one positive I can see out of this is the guy is hardcore and will get others pumped up, i dont know how many of those this team had

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, though I like Al's idea...

…of adding a “clubhouse guy” (a la Kevin Millar) for the postseason, I also can’t help wondering if the team needs less jocularity and more whup-assedness. In any case, acquiring Bradley would remind me a lot of picking up Cliff Floyd in ‘07. A big gamble that he’d stay healthy and produce the power numbers the team is looking for. Floyd did manage to make it through the season – barely. But he never fulfilled the power end of the bargain. If I were Jim Hendry, I’d be hesitant to go down that road again. If he’s going to sign a “name” free agent, I’m still backing Adam Dunn.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

There's definitely something missing in the clubhouse...

… and it has nothing to do with the regular season. Someone in there has to get those guys so that when the postseason comes, they think of nothing except the one game at hand. Obviously, that didn’t happen in 2007 or 2008.

And yes, I think Kevin Millar, who was on the Red Sox team that broke their drought, could be a big help in doing that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I guess the question is...

…do the Cubs need someone there to help loosen them up in the postseason or fire them up? I could see Bradley doing the latter, assuming he’s not in a full body cast by that point.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bradley has played in two postseasons...

… 2004 with the Dodgers, 2006 with the A’s.

Despite having a great ALCS in 2006 (9-for-18, 2 HR), the A’s got swept. Been there, done that, I don’t think Bradley would make the difference.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Again, I think you vastly overrate Millar's importance to that Sox team...

just like I think Millar vastly overrates his importance to that Sox team.

by SouthernCub on Dec 12, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anyway, wouldn't getting Dempster's buddy

just reinforce the existing vibe?

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 12, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it would help loosen Dempster up so he doesn't walk seven in a playoff game.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 12, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

who loosens up Pineilla

to get him to get off his rear and make a pitching change?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 12, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, assuming Cedeno gets traded, we could bring back Izturis

I think he has a way to “loosen up” folks in the dugout… ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd for using "jocularity"

I’m channeling an episode of M*A*S*H right now and smiling…

"And now, for the moment no one has been waiting for… the Father Mulcahy sound-alike contest!" Hawkeye cried jovially, snatching the hat off Father Mulcahy’s head. At first he protested, and then fell back laughing with the rest as the ravenhaired surgeon donned his hat and his most solemn face. "My word to Hawkeye, this jocularity is most unseemly… here, you try it!"

Klinger received the hat and stared at it, pausing his work on the broken projector. "Me? Oh, uh, how can you make jokes at a time like this? Oh!"

Frank Burns caught the hat as it was flung into the crowd, sucking his lips in nervously. Spurred on by the expectant looks of everyone in the tent, he placed it on his head and giggled wildly, exclaiming "Post-Op is collapsing, and the OR’s on fire!"

Naturally he tossed it to Margaret, who followed up seriously "And someone has broken into the sacramental wine!" She then sent the hat spinning towards Radar, who jumped as it bounced against his shoulder.

"Oh, uh, sorry Father," he giggled "it seems that Private Simpson has come down with a case of hepatitis. He’s a most remarkable shade of yellow." As he passed it on, the tent shook with laughter, for Colonel Potter, in a fit of chuckles, brayed from beneath the rim of the hat "Jocularity! Jocularity!"

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa, that's weird you point that out...

…because whenever I see (or use) the word “jocularity,” I think of Father Mulcahy, too.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 12, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yep - word association and imagery are very powerful things

fer instance…

“playoffs” —> Jim Mora
“practice” —> Allen Iverson
“Rickey” —> Rickey

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 12, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well Bradley will cost more than Floyd

And Floyd was pretty bad for this team.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 12, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ibanez

to the phillies reportedly. link

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 12, 2008 6:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wow

3 years $30M

Finally, some movement in this market! The Phillies seemed to jump on Ibanez as soon as the DeRosa talk ended. I was surprised because they said they wanted to get more right handed.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 12, 2008 6:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs