Remember Sammy Sosa...

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 7:53 PM CST Comment 113 comments

Do any of you remember a guy named Sammy Sosa...he played RF (average) for the cubs. His D didn't hurt the Cubs in 2003 but his O helped carry us into the playoffs and his bat in the NLCS was pretty damn good too. Anyway, I too see Dunn putting up huge numbers in Wrigley. How much better would his bat make Ramierz and Lee? Imagine a line up consisting of

1. Soriano (unfortunately...I'd rather flip Dero over Soriano)
2. Dero
3. Rameriz
4. Dunn
5. Lee
6. Fukadome
7. Soto
8. Theriot (unfortunately)

I'm sorry, but if the Cubs are in a win now mode, which they should be every damn year until they win it all, then screw the money and go sign the players we need to win now.

I'd also like to see Chicago get Brian Roberts...I think he has much more value to us than Peavey would. He's cheaper and a switch hitter. And the Cubs would probably end up getting Peavey anyway.

So to sum it up...If we are in a win now mode...our opening day roster needs to look something like this
1. Robertrs (2B)
2. Soriano (LF)
3. Ramirez (3B)
4. Dunn (RF)
5. Lee (1B)
6. Soto (C)
7. Fukudome (CF)
8. Pitcher
9. DeRo (SS)

...I don't know that I'd bat the pitcher 8th every game but the Cubs have good hitting pitchers (for the record...Peavey also has a good bat).

This is my first post so for those of you who disagree...move on it's only a post.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Imagine Dunn on roids...

I dont know how we’d trade for both Roberts and Peavy, you might be asking too much on that one.

And Soriano can bat in a few spots, but second aint one of them.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 8:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ugh.

Comparing Sosa to Dunn is a stretch. Dunn is an absolute butcher in LF, I’m horrified of what he looks like in RF at Wrigley. Sosa also was clutch, especially in the postseason (as you mentioned, the 2003 NLCS he came up huge in). I have no reason to believe Dunn can do the same.

How much better would his bat make Ramierz and Lee?

Well, in your proposed line up you have Dunn hitting ahead of DLee. I don’t know if you watched the Cubs last season, but Lee is the King of GIDP. So you want to put someone ahead of him who either hits a homer (no effect on Lee), strikes out (no effect on Lee), or walks, giving DLee a chance to set an MLB record for most GIDP in a season with the big donkey lumbering down to second all season on Derrek’s groundballs.

Oh, and considering Dunn will most likely be the most expensive/command the longest contract out of Dunn/Bradley/Abreu? Pass.

I’d also like to see Chicago get Brian Roberts… He’s cheaper and a switch hitter.

You obviously didn’t follow last year’s offseason. Nothing about prying Roberts away from the O’s is cheap, and it definitely ain’t easy. Not gonna happen.

This is my first post so for those of you who disagree…move on it’s only a post.

If you don’t want people to disagree with you, don’t post your thoughts on a blog. That’s what blogs are for.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Dec 14, 2008 8:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hmm.

“Dunn is an absolute butcher in LF.” Wrong. Using PMR (Probalistic Measure of Range), Dunn finds himself as 3-4 runs above average. Who did rank higher than? Ibanez, Holliday, Soriano, Manny, Quentin, Bay, Byrnes, etc. He’s not as bad as some might try to paint him, but PMR has him as above average and better than our current LF. His move to right will most likely hurt his numbers, but he’s not the “butcher” you make him out to be.

Please give me evidence of Sosa’s “clutch”. His 2-11 vs Atlanta in 98? His 3-16 vs Atl in 03? So he had 2 big games vs Florida, big deal. Just not a relevant argument, whatsoever.

Why would Dunn have the most expensive contract? Because he’s durable and 29. It would make sense to take him on a 4 year deal knowing he can take over 1B once D-Lee’s contract runs out. And he shouldn’t be substantially more expensive.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 14, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate saying this,

because I really do value statistics, especially in baseball, but when it comes to rating the defensive ability of an outfielder I trust my eyes more than a simple number. When I watch Dunn play in the OF, I laugh. You compare him to Sori, and I agree they’re both kind of lost sometimes. But Soriano has a cannon, and has consistently made plays with his arm to at least partially compensate for his inexperience in LF. Not too mention he’s just more athletic (when healthy…) than Dunn.

As far as Sosa goes, his homer in game 1 of the NLCS was the definition of clutch. Maybe it was unfair to compare Dunn to Sosa in this respect because Dunn hasn’t had an opportunity like that yet. And I don’t feel like looking in to this, but I thought I remember hearing some stat about Dunn getting his first game-winning homer last season. If true, that’s really surprising for a guy who has consistently been belting out 40 homers for years.

BTW, Sosa’s 3-16 vs. Atl in 2003 came with 6 walks and a .409 OBP. So even if he didn’t hit all that well that series, he was still on base plenty. And he had a .308/.455/.577 line in the NLCS that year, including that game 1 bomb.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Dec 14, 2008 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Meh.

Feel free to use your own subjective eyes on Dunn’s defense; I’ll admit he ain’t great but I’ll still stick to the statistics. I didn’t compare him to Sori. I said he was better.

Dunn’s statistics are right in line with his career averages, in regards to RISP, 2 out measures, etc.

Sosa wasn’t clutch. He was a good player and good players tend to be good. Fairly simple idea.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 14, 2008 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

you could always put Soriano in right, he's got the arm

If you prefer Dunn in LF

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 9:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose that's a thought...

It’d probably be best for Dunn and our total defense, but who knows how Soriano would adjust. I don’t think anybody’s crazy about the idea of having both of them in the OF.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 14, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would rather put Soriano at 2nd

and DeRo in RF.

by dlee25 on Dec 14, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have you ever, even once, seen Sori attempt to play 2B?????

There is a reason he was moved to the OF.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 14, 2008 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He can't be that bad...can he?

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He had a five-hole that hockey players lust after...

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 14, 2008 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So by your definition,

only bad players can be clutch? If a good player coming up big in a big moment is just him being good, then the only way to call someone clutch is if they’re bad but come up huge in a tight spot?

There’s a difference between good and clutch, and IMO Sosa was both. The jury’s still out on Dunn.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Dec 14, 2008 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's all very simple.

Clutch, in general terms, means that a player elevates his performance level above what he usually would in so called clutch situations. For example, a .350 hitter who hits .350 with RISP and 2 outs isn’t so much clutch as he is good. Good players tend to be good in all situations. Meanwhile, a .250 hitter who hits .350 with RISP and 2 outs is clutch, because he did go above his norm in that situation.

by dakoose on Dec 15, 2008 1:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that sounds like the philosophy my 5th grade teacher used.

Not to brag (ah, who am I kidding – of course I’m bragging…), but I was pretty smart in school. At least until I went to college, but that’s a whole nother story…

Anyway, in 5th grade, I always aced the spelling tests. Got them all right, every time. Since I was getting 100% on every test, that became, in effect, my ‘average’. So my teacher gave me… yep, you guessed it… a “C” in spelling.

Needless to say, this guy was out there. It was the 70s, so he had the big afro, funky glasses, mustache, always had his shirt tail hanging out, kinda had that head-bobbing thing going whenever he talked. Of course, I was in 5th grade so I really couldn’t grasp it all, but boy oh boy, you can imagine the “parent-teacher” conference when my “old school”, crew cut, working two-jobs all the way through college, no-nonsense, spare-the-rod spoil-the-child, father got in there to talk with him… heh heh…

say… your name wouldn’t happen to be Mr. Widmer, would it?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 15, 2008 7:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dakoose...

summed it up pretty well. Good players can be clutch, but they’d have to outperform their normal output. Sosa never did that in the playoffs. Good players are going to have good games in the playoffs; to be clutch would be for that good player to go on quite a tear, a la Manny this year.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right...

the term “clutch” is so frequently misplaced it’s not even funny. People say that Jeter is clutch. It’s not really true. He’s just good. The same for Manny. Look at their postseason numbers compared to their regular season numbers. They’re just good, and thus are more likely to succeed at key times.

I think people like the idea of clutchness because it appeals to the human element of the game. But really, I think the more accurate statement would identifying people as UNclutch, or chokers. If someone were REALLY clutch, I’d argue that they just weren’t focused enough in “nonclutch” situations.

by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

your Dunn getting walks in front of DPLee argument made me smile...

knowing that a big donkey is on first base, I can see Lou giving the hit-n-run sign on favorable counts just to stay out of the double play. Of course, chances are it’s a double play anyway but still… I like the idea of a 6’6" 260 lb lumberjack bearing down on various scrawny little middle infielders. I think there’s a few of them around the league to whom we owe a thing or two…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 14, 2008 8:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Either way Lee shouldnt be third, so where would you put him?

I say

3 Ramirez
4 new LH OF
5 Soto/Lee
6 Soto/Lee

and possibly Soriano below 3rd, provided he’s not in leadoff

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've always been intrigued by the thought of Lee batting 2nd,

…assuming his batting eye and stroke returns to or at least is close to the Lee we all knew and loved. Otherwise, yeah, I think it’s time to drop him to 5th or 6th – depending on where Soriano ends up.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 14, 2008 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He couldve meant cheaper by $$$

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I thought I was clear...

that Roberts is not cheap because of the prospects he’d cost, not simply his salary.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Dec 14, 2008 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, Im saying the poster might be referring to their salaries once they are acquired

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn...

Took everything he wrote and disagreed with it all…… maybe thats why sometimes people hesitate to post. But an opinion is an opinion and thats why we are all here

WOW WHAT A SEASON!

by SouthsideCUBSfan on Dec 15, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is a perfect way for me to procrastinate.

I’m all for adding Adam Dunn, as I’m sure others are aware of.

My first issue comes in the statement "I’d also like to see Chicago get Brian Roberts…I think he has much more value to us than Peavey would. He’s cheaper and a switch hitter. And the Cubs would probably end up getting Peavey anyway. ".

Brian Roberts is not going to be traded to the Cubs. There have been no rumors of him being traded this offseason, just people bringing it up because they didn’t learn their lesson from the last offseason. AND even if he was traded, players that would be involved in the trade (Marshall, Pie, Vitters even) would be players that would go to San Diego in any Peavy trade. It’s likely that either of those trades are going to happen – impossible that both happen.

“1. Robertrs (2B)
2. Soriano (LF)
3. Ramirez (3B)
4. Dunn (RF)
5. Lee (1B)
6. Soto ©
7. Fukudome (CF)
8. Pitcher
9. DeRo (SS)”

No. No no no no no no no. Alfonso Soriano should not be hitting SECOND. The pitcher should NOT be batting 8th. Mark DeRosa should NOT be batting below Kosuke Fukudome, Geovany Soto should NOT be batting below Derrek Lee, etc. etc. etc.

1. Fonzie slugged a cool .532 last year. Put ‘im fifth.
2. Pitchers shouldn’t bat 8th. Tony LaRussa is a moron, Ned Yost is a moron who consequently does not have a job. They’re generally the worst hitters on the team, if not always. Keep ‘em 9th.
3. I’ll admit, this is kind of a toss-up because Fukudome’s first season was all over the map while DeRosa’s season was probably the best he’ll ever have as a baseball player. However, until Fukudome proves that he can quit flailing at every damn pitch, I’d rather have DeRosa higher in the lineup.
4. Geovany Soto slugged .504 last year, compared to Derrek Lee’s .462. Geovany is a young player, and that number is likely to either rise or maybe regress a LITTLE bit. Derrek isn’t old, but he’s probably reached the peak of his career and didn’t prove that he could handle batting in a spot in the lineup where power is important.

IF, somehow, by some miracle, the Cubs pry Brian Roberts from Andy MacPhail’s cold, hard grip, this would be an ideal lineup:

1. Roberts
2. DeRosa
3. Ramirez
4. Dunn
5. Soriano
6. Soto
7. Lee
8. Fukudome
9. Pitcher

“This is my first post so for those of you who disagree…move on it’s only a post.”

So you want people to not have an opinion on your opinion?

-sigh-

CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!

by Keith on Dec 14, 2008 8:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Looks good

I think Lee could also bat second if need be, he’s still pretty patient, and if Soriano was the leadoff, there wouldnt be that many double plays anyway..ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fonzie isn't a TERRIBLE leadoff hitter.

It’s not like he OBP’s .300 or anything in the Corey Patterson area. He would just be a much better #4 or #5 hitter.

CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!

by Keith on Dec 14, 2008 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano SHOULD not be hitting second...

I never said Soriano should be hitting second, I put him there because I think that Lou caters to Soriano and would bat him second. I would prefer Dero second or Fukudome if he hits.

I want people to have an opinion, as long as it’s the same as mine…lol

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano doesnt really strike me as a whiner

He seems to love just playing, and Im sure he’s more comfortable in the leadoff b/c he’s been there the most, but I never got the impression he’d go Manny on us if he was moved down.

Plus if hes not really stealing bases anymore, it wouldnt matter if hes moved down

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The greater question is:

If Brian Roberts retired tomorrow, would half of us ever post again?

Let it go people, let it go.

by TheHawk5 on Dec 14, 2008 8:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

"This is a perfect way for me to procrastinate"

My thoughts exactly. Anything is better than the studying/paper writing I have on tap for the next couple of days.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Dec 14, 2008 8:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

^^ was supposed to be a reply to Keith.

Ron Santo should sing TMOTTBG everyday. Period.

by Schwa on Dec 14, 2008 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Win now mode

The more I hear this phrase the more I think of Frodo and the ring. It’s like you are willing to sell your soul to the devil just as long it’s in a few years… then, invariably, those years will come and I doubt people will have the patience to wait 6 or so years for a rebuilding effort.

This window of oportunity is a load of crap. If you are a high revenue team you develop a philosophy to create a team that can win consistently and in the end you’ll probably do it. If you put that much pressure in yourself saying you have to go all out for the next two years (and screw the future) because that’s your chance then you probably won’t do much.

The phrase also reminds me of people that take a huge loan but don’t have to pay anything in the first year.

Anyhow, I went on a tangent… As far as Dunn, more than his defense, the thing I don’t like is that much like Soriano, he is a guy that doesn’t fit anywhere in a lineup. Very special hitter, with a lot of extremes. Of course, I’d rather have him than Soriano, but I don’t think you can do both.

by Luis on Dec 14, 2008 8:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think Dunn would be good in the 4 spot b/t two right handers

Hes has a career .383 OPB and a .512 SLG as a cleanup hitter

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Uhhhh....

…then screw the money and go sign the players we need to win now.

Because that’s a sound economic policy that will result in nothing bad happening ever.

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 14, 2008 8:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think you can forget about DeRo playing SS as long as Lou is the manager.

Also, if the O’s decide to trade Roberts, DeRo will be gone — possibly in the Roberts trade — because the Cubs won’t be able to afford both and Adam Dunn.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 14, 2008 8:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

I read through some of these proposals and wonder where the money’s coming from. The Cubs are already on the hook for $116 million for only 11 players — and that doesn’t include all the minimum or near minimum salary guys.

I think Hendry’s going to have to be creative in finding a RF solution, in order to keep some flexibility for midseason acquisitions AND for 2010 — and that includes telling Lou that he HAS to find a place for Felix Pie (platooning him with Reed Johnson), and leaving Fukudome in RF.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2008 4:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right now, we're actually a good bit less expensive in 2010...

because Marquis and DeRosa come off the books ($15 million saved), and the big money guys only bump the 2010 salary up around $2-3 million total.

It’s only if we add an expensive player and trade away Marquis and/or DeRosa that the payroll becomes a problem. But if we do nothing else, there would seem to be substantial flexibility for 2010.

That said, I wonder if the team is interested in getting cheaper in 2010 after spending big in 2007-2009. I definitely don’t think it’s realistic to discuss bringing in multiple expensive players this offseason.

by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We already have about $104M committed to eight players in 2010.

Depending on what the total budget number is in 2010, signing a RF for 3/$30 would give the Cubs about $30M-$35M to distribute between 14 players in 2010. That almost assures us that Harden and DeRo are gone.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Easy to say screw the money

When it ain’t yours.

And I’d rather have Sosa back than that clod Dunn.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 14, 2008 9:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

actually, it is our money, in a way

You can’t say screw the money AND hope for stagnant ticket prices.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and Worf

I’m not disagreeing with you, FTR.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 10:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Successful troll is successful!

CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!

by Keith on Dec 14, 2008 10:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope this is sarcastic.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe if Dunn corked his bat....

by LT on Dec 14, 2008 9:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

hendry said we couldn't afford peavy

but you think we can get him, roberts, and dunn? this is a fantasy

by cubsmania on Dec 14, 2008 9:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I dont think they know what they can afford for sure until someone wins the bidding

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he said we couldn't afford Peavy...

I believe the issue was what we’d have to give up to get Peavy. If we couldn’t afford Peavy, there’d have never been talks in the first place.

That said, I agree that we wouldn’t be able to get Peavy, Roberts, and Dunn.

by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hendry said

he didn’t like the amount of players we would have to give up(your right there)…..but he also said payroll was a big issue. He said we would have been alright in 09 but our 2010 payroll would be too high with all the increases with backloaded contracts we have.

by cubsmania on Dec 15, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Correction

I meant to say “This is my first post so for those of you who disagree, post your argument and move on, it’s only a post”

The bloggers on the yankees page are counting their rings with a $160m payroll…so why can’t we?

How many of you Cub fans were alive the last time the Cubs won the series?

So again, screw the money and put a team out there that can win a playoff game or preferably 11 of them. If Mark bought the team we wouldn’t be talking about “if we could sign these guys”, we’d be talking about the Chicago Bears after the press conferences for the guys we signed.

Also, can one of you statisticians please tell me how many games Soriano has batted below Lead off over the past two years?

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 9:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yankees haven't really won...

since they started buying everybody. They’ve always had a high payroll, but that coincided with a deep farm and developed players when they were winning titles. Buying everyone has NOT worked out for them. We can’t expect to win just by dropping unlimited payroll.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 14, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree...but

I agree 100%, but it would help.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano outside of leadoff

In 2008

2nd: 0-9 .000 AVG, .000 OBP
3rd: 0-1, .000 AVG, .000 OBP
7th: 1 IBB

2007

3rd:.179AVG .258OBP .286 SLG in 28 ABs
5th: 0-8, .000 OBP
8th: 1-1 with a double

So very small sample sizes in both years.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

You just proved my point for me. This is the reason I put Soriano second. We can all agree that Soriano doesn’t belong at the top of the lineup…in two years he’s batted below the lead off spot in aprox 12 games. I’m not trying to argue that he belongs batting 2nd but could you see Lou batting him any lower? Hell, Lou would still bat him first then bat Roberts second…how wasteful would that be? Based on those samples we’d be better off batting Soriano 8th…that’s an expensive 8th hitter.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think he'd be a good cleanup hitter as well

But we’ll never really know, b/c it might take a matter of weeks before he adjusts to any role and I dont see Lou having that kind of patience w/o worrying about effecting Sorianos psyche.

And if Lou is as old school as we think, he’d want a more patient hitter in the no 2. I think six would be good for him, w/ someone like DeRosa 7th….though that would look better with a real lead off hitter and a new LH OF

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Small sample sizes.

Which you… KIND of grasp? I’m not really sure.

CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!

by Keith on Dec 14, 2008 10:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This only works IF ...

1) The Cubs think Dunn can play right
2) A deal with Baltimore can be struck for Roberts
3) A deal with SD can be struck for Peavy
4) DeRosa gets the range to play short
5) The Cubs’ budget swells to about $163 million

One of the first three could happen. None of the last two will and there’s NO CHANCE in HELL that all five will happen.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 10:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

How much range does DeRo have "to get" to be as good as Theriot?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 14, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

enough ...

to convince Lou.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha

ouch

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa playing Short...

This is my point with DeRosa playing Short, IF (IF) the Cubs get Roberts (and that’s not likely going to happen but not impossible) and sign a RF and DeRo is still with the club, he is a better option offensively at SS than Theriot. It’s not like we lose a lot defensively. Lou would be crazy to start Theriot over DeRosa even if SS isn’t Dero’s best position. Moreover, our offense would be phenomenal if those scenarios did work out.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If that's the case

Lou has been crazy for two years now.

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 14, 2008 10:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

?????

We haven’t had Roberts so why would he play him there the past two years? We still have his bat in the line up right?

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

one could make the argument ...

that if DeRo could play short better than Theriot — or if Lou thought DeRo was the better option — that DeRo would have been the starting shortstop last year and Fontenot would be starting at second.

Lou is desperate to get more lefty bats in the lineup, as we well know.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe that may have played out if Theriot wasn't hitting.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think so

DeRosa and Fontenot were hitting, too. And, if DeRosa can play short, why has his time there been almost nonexistent as a Cub? It’s not like Lou is a big fan of Ronny Cedeno.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't answer that...

but, Lou has a man crush on Theriot so…

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa > Theriot

Some people would argue that Derosa, Fontentot, and Cedeno were better than Theriot at SS or 2B (myself included). Lou has been starting Theriot over three players who are arguably better than him for two years now, so its not crazy to assume he’d do it again.

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 14, 2008 11:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

good point

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

or that Lou

knows more about this kind of thing than a bunch of posters (myself included) on a blog. No one would argue that Cedeno has more range, but the guy has the brains of a garden hose.

As for Fontenot and DeRosa, they haven’t PLAYED shortstop enough for us (the fans) to know.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 11:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sorry --

no one would argue that Cedeno DOESN’T have more range.

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

r u sure about that???

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

about what?

Which point are you addressing?

by elgato on Dec 14, 2008 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wait... what are we talking about???

lol I don’t even know.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that we'll be here same time next year talking about what if we had PEavy and ROberts and Dunn

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree that we haven't seen them play SS

And Cedeno is incompetent at times, but what if we found out that DeRosa could play SS much better than Theriot. In my opinion LBR is a much better 2B option than Theriot as well. Could you see Lou dropping Theriot from starting SS to bench player in favor of two players who have been on the roster for two years?? I can’t.

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 14, 2008 11:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen DeRo play SS.

He has SS hands and a SS arm. He lacks a step of range, especially to his right. He will make the routine plays routinely, and is excellent on the pivot, but won’t make many spectacular plays. As a SS, he is a lot like Michael Young — adequate, but below average, defense with a better than average SS bat. IOW, you would be accepting slightly below average defense in return for an .820 – .840 OPS at SS. Some managers (e.g., Earl Weaver) would take that offense, others want Adam Everett’s glove at SS.

Since Riot isn’t likely to win a GG at SS (he has slightly more range than DeRo but doesn’t have enough arm to complete a lot of those plays) or ever hit for any power, DeRo would be a better choice overall since LBR is a dreadful SS but a better bat than Riot by far.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Where have I read that before?

Do you type that with your eyes closed, or just copy and paste from a special bookmark?

:-)

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just give my Mac the command "DeRo"

and it does the rest. Macs are really great computers, you know…

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I c wat u did dere.

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 16, 2008 3:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't have a cat, but the computer looks good...

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it does!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What does this have to do with Sosa?

We remember him. Some of us not so fondly. But this post really has nothing to do with him. Comparing him to Dunn isn’t so hot. Dunn hasn’t hit 60+ home runs in a season, which more than made up for the 100+ strike outs. On top of it, he hit above .250. He had a pretty decent arm. When he was younger, he had speed. Dunn really has none of those things

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Dec 14, 2008 10:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Hitting above .250 is irrelevant

As long as Adam Dunn is getting on base and moon shot-ing the ball, it’s acceptable for him to bat in the .230-.240 range.

CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!

by Keith on Dec 14, 2008 10:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

R U Serious

You are comparing a steroid induced 60 home runs to Dunn’s consistent 40 home runs? This post isn’t supposed to have anything to do with Sosa…i used the subject line as a way to get people to read my post. Your ignorant comments are just that ignorant.
Sosa DID have a good arm, and DID have speed. So what, it isn’t helping us today. I simply comparing Sosa’s poor D to the OF’s today we are trying to sign. While they can’t play D they all are good hitters, Dunn being the most feared. The only difference between Sosa and Dunn that favors Sosa is AVG. Dunn’s OBP is almost 40 points higher than Sosa’s…and before Steriods, Sosa’s OBP was horrific. I loved Sosa, but I know how much steroids helped his career.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jennifer Aniston on the cover of GQ

This comment isn’t supposed to have anything to do with Jennifer Aniston…i used the subject line as a way to get people to read my comment.

Oh, take it easy – even I’m not that cruel… Here you go. Slinky linky
[Disclaimer: although GQ magazine does not require a brown paper wrapper, this one is probably NSFW…]

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 14, 2008 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whats her UZR?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 11:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does it matter?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 15, 2008 4:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn also never took steroids

(allegedly)

and Dunns career OBP is nearly 40pts higher, so he was more patient and probably had/has as much natural power.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't I just say that...

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, it wasnt there as i was typing

Or maybe I was looking at the wrong comment…..either way, did you really need to point that out

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 11:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess not sometimes I'm a prick

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha....I really dont know what happened, mustve hit reply on the wrong one

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 11:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Three stats make a difference

Runs, RBI’s and Home Runs…if your OBP is .900 but for some reason no one drives you in is it relevant? No. Hell, ask the Nationals.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I don't even know where to begin on this one...

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 14, 2008 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

let it rip

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I get what he's saying

It is a bit strange that RBIs and runs are getting overlooked now that OPS is all the rage…..Keith Law was defending his position on Dawson not being in the Hall of Fame solely b/c his OPS wasnt up to snuff, as if his 400 HRs and 1500 RBIs count for shit.

so its a bit odd that the stats that actually score runs are being devalued.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 14, 2008 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dawson...too bad there isn't one player in MLB as gifted as Dawson was

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I moved to Chicago the year Dawson started with the Cubs...he was my hero...and Sandberg

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

At the end of the game...

who ever scores the most runs wins…not who has the higher OBP or better WHIP or whose wife’s hotter than the next guys

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Correct

Which is why TEAM run differentials are important to look at, but not an individual’s runs. You can’t hit a HR every time.

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 14, 2008 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree...

but don’t the INDIVIDUAL runs help the TEAM runs???

by Glen Bishop on Dec 14, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but

stats like runs and rbis are team dependent and can’t really be used to accurately evaluate a single player.

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 15, 2008 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish we could trade Soto for Mauer

to get our LH middle of the order bat. Too bad the twins would never do that considering Mauer is their hometown hero and the face of the franchise. The only reason they might do it is Soto arguably has a higher ceiling with his power.

Then instead of focusing on Bradley we could of turned our attention to acquiring Furcal or Roberts or any other leadoff hitter to move Soriano to the 5 slot.

by dlee25 on Dec 15, 2008 12:26 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Mauer is a great #2 hitter

not a middle of the order hitter

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 15, 2008 2:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

This isn’t a slight against the original poster at all (because I actually agree with most of what he’s saying, minus Brian Roberts), but what is with all the “Here’s my 2009 Cubs fantasyland roster” posts?

I too daydream in the offseason about all the possible Cubs trades, signings and lineups, but I don’t make a fanpost about it. Jim Hendry’s in charge of all that.

There’s literally another fanpost made yesterday on the same subject.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Dec 15, 2008 3:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

and there will probably be another one tomorrow...

I saw Julius Erving, aka Dr. J, give a speech at a business conference once. He shared with us a bunch of personal philosophies he developed over the years to help him deal with life, both on and off the court. Great stuff (no pun intended). Anyway, one of them kinda describes this phenomena:

“Everyone likes the sound of their own applause.”

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 15, 2008 7:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Remember Babe Ruth

He hit a lot of home runs and the Yankees were very good. We should sign Adam Dunn because he hits a lot of home runs so therefore he is basically Babe Ruth.

Also then we should trade for Chase Utley and Albert Pujols.

by Wreckard on Dec 15, 2008 10:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs