Hill and Pie in the winter leagues
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 10:57 AM CST
182 comments
Rich Hill has the following line in the Venezuelan league (maybe he was already released, I don't know):
| Team | League | W | L | ERA | G | GS | CG | SHO | SV | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | GO/AO | AVG |
| ARA | VWL | 1 | 2 | 6.86 | 9 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 21.0 | 23 | 19 | 16 | 1 | 23 | 16 | 1.32 | .288 |
23BB on 21IP tells pretty much the whole story. He also hit a batter with the bases loaded his last appearance as a reliever (he inherited the runners), and then followed that up with a couple of walks. Seems like he is really done.
Felix Pie:
| Team | League | AVG | G | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | TB | BB | SO | SB | CS | OBP | SLG | OPS |
| LIC | DWL | .304 | 20 | 56 | 8 | 17 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 24 | 2 | 10 | 4 | 0 | .328 | .429 | .756 |
Again, BB pretty much tell the story here too. 2BB in 56AB translates to roughly 20BB in a full season for him. His numbers are pretty bad overall, no power and his average is pretty much all a result of a .356 or so BABIP. Adjust the BABIP to a normal value and his numbers are awful as well (Btw, Jake Fox has an OPS of .939 while playing for the same team). Seeing as Pie is not a big power guy his lack of plate discipline pretty much kills all his value as a hitter (he can't steal bases if he can't get on base). All the evidence in the majors as well as the dominican league suggest Pie will not be a good pro hitter, and I think the Cubs are doing exactly what they should in seeking another outfielder. If they sign a guy who has injury concerns or is bad defensively then Pie can have a role as defensive sub in the outfield.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
0 recs |
182 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Small sample size...
I really see no point in bringing up a 56 AB sample. It’s not news. Nor does it give us any more information on what type of player Pie will be. Conversely, had Pie been awesome for 56 AB, it wouldn’t give us any more information as to what type of MLB player he’ll be.
I mean, Pie walked 3 times in 20 AB in September and had a .391 OPS. Is that irrefutable evidence that he’ll succeed.
We know basically as much now as we knew two months ago, which is still not that much. He’s 24 years old, needs to develop as a hitter, and we don’t know if he’ll do it or not.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
You have to make decisions based on small samples sizes. That’s just a fact. Seeing as he continues his trend of playing badly in a PRO environment yet again, then that is informative. Especially if you use BB drawn, which is perhaps one of the most constant stats for a hitter.
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly you missed the evidence then...
BB is apparently NOT constant for Pie, as his patience at the plate was much improved late last year. It appears to have fluctuated backwards in the small sample in winter ball. That was my point – the small sample can be misleading, especially on something like walks.
And yes, people make decisions on small samples all the time. Doesn’t mean they’re necessarily CORRECT decisions. Further, I’m not sure why we as fans have to make a decision about Pie based on small sample sizes. We aren’t GMs, so what’s the point in badmouthing a guy before he’s reached what he can do?
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As they saying goes,
Felix “is what he is” and it doesn’t seems likely he will drastically change into a different kind of player at this point of his career.
The key is to get the most use of what he can do (his speed on the bases and his defenses) rather than focus on what he can’t do.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 15, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he'll be a walk machine...
the question is more accurately (in my opinion) whether he develops into a Soriano type of hitter (minus the power) or whether he continues to be unable to hit at all. Plenty of hitters have succeeded with low walk totals. The question is whether he becomes one of those guys whose talent overcomes poor discipline, or whether he just never quite manages to make the jump.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Low walk totals and marginal power really kill most of your value as a hitter (especially if you can’t even utilize your speed).
Pie has also not shown much pop in the majors or in the winter leagues.
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 11:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Has not yet shown...
is different than will never show. That’s my point.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And those 10 words...
…pretty much sum up the debate on Felix Pie. I, too, think it’s simply far too early to call him a bust.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie and Soriano
looking at their minor league numbers, Pie has done everything Soriano did and no less, at a younger age at each level.
As a 24-year-old, Soriano had hit .172 in 58 major leauge at bats.
In the minor leagues, Soriano hit .285 .331 .468 .799 hitting a homer ever 30.8 at bats. Total of 927 at bats
Felix has gone, .299 .353 .470 .823 and in his last 1100 ab or so has hit a homer once ever 32 at bats.
As far as what each had done up to this age in their careers, Felix’s path is very similar statistically to Soriano.
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 15, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
He can be a great defensive replacement, ocassional starter (not in a platoon) and pinch runner. I think he’d make a valuable player in the roster if used that way. I just don’t want to hear suggestions of give Pie x number of more at bats to make a decision on the Cubs outfield.
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Felix is 24.
That’s still a year before Cleveland gave up on Brandon Phillips as a guy without power in the majors.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 15, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Time will eventually tell
Hopefully Pie gets a shot to play everyday for some team so I don’t hear the Cubs “ruined” him. I say he is Patterson 2.0. I sure wouldn’t go into a season with Felix as my gain in an outfield position…
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While I do think the Cubs ruined Patterson
I don’t think you can make the case that they’ve ruined Pie.
Patterson was rushed way too fast and then Baker tried to turn him into a lead-off hitter, which Patterson would never, ever have been good at being. But even saying all that, I should be clear this doesn’t get Corey “off the hook.” He had opportunities and he is his own man. He could have worked to salvage a career that began the wrong way.
Pie is different. Pie was not rushed. He succeeded at every level he had regular playing time at. All he needs now is half a season and confidence. If the Cubs don’t give that to him, they aren’t “ruining him” and someone will give that to him, because they will make the decision based on larger sample sizes.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 15, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
their is very little comparison between the progression and development of Pie and Patterson. Patterson was rushed to the bigs and showed marginal success early before bottoming out. Pie was brought up slowly and dominated every level of the minors.
The difference continued to the majors, where Patterson was thrown out there every day in spite of being rushed. Conversely, Pie has been given only brifef looks in the majors despite success in the minors.
Pie may ultimately never succeed, but it won’t be in any way similar to the way Patterson failed.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely and utterly disagree
You have to make decisions based on small samples sizes.
Why in the world do we have to make decisions based on small sample sizes? Did the baseball season suddenly lose 100 games? Did we lose the records on what Pie has done in the minor leagues?
Making decisions based on small sample sizes is how big league clubs make bad decisions. We know this because we have a large sample size of decisions in baseball history to see this from.
In just the same way, I have to respond to your original post:
All the evidence in the majors as well as the dominican league suggest Pie will not be a good pro hitter,
I guess by the same standards, all the evidence in the AFL and ML show that Sam Fuld should be our CF? Why do you want to select this evidence out from the much larger pool of evidence?
And then we have to ask, further, whether you are interpreting the evidence correctly. Here’s a question, does anyone know whether the Domincan league is playing as a hitters’ league or a pitchers’ league this year? I don’t. What’s the average hitter’s line this year?
Furthermore, Felix’s walk line can’t be looked at apart from his contact line. A lot of hitters, even generally patient ones, walk less when they are making good contact. And Felix is making good contact. I’d be a lot more concerned about Felix’s line if it had a .240 AVG and no walks than with a .300 line and a handful of walks.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 15, 2008 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to make decisions based on small sample sizes
because all you have in baseball is small sample sizes.
Even 300 AB is a small sample size (mathematically speaking), since the error bar for estimating one’s “true” batting average converges very slowly, as 1/sqrt(N), where N = number of ABs.
"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.
by zevkalman on Dec 15, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see platoon stats for Pie in the winter league...
… and I doubt we have them. Maybe he’s suited to a platoon role. But we just don’t know, and won’t unless Lou gives him a chance.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are his splits from this Dominican Winter League season:
Pie vs. RHP:
.304 BA, 14-for-46, 7 R, 4 2B, 0 3B, 1 HR, 7 RBI, 2 BB, 9 K, 4 SB, 0 CS, .457 SLG, .333 OBP
Pie vs. LHP:
.300 BA, 10-for-30, 1 R, 3 H, 0 2B, 0 3B, 0 HR, 0 RBI, 0 BB, 1 K, 0 SB, 0 BC, .300 SLG, .300 OBP
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 15, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a whole lot of difference, really.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not much
It doesn’t look like Felix is playing everyday, either. Timo Perez and Amaury Cazana have started most games in the OF, with the other spot being played on a rotating basis.
Of the 20 games he’s played, Pie has started 16.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 15, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
what the hell happened to Rich Hill?! The guy just imploded from being a halfway decent pitcher.
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Dec 15, 2008 11:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
It appears that he lost his edge...
So much of baseball has to do with confidence. In pitching, there’s a very fine line between great and terrible. It appears that Hill may have lost his confidence and abiliity to hit the strike zone. And if you can’t throw strikes, you can’t succeed, and right now Hill can’t throw strikes anymore.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the good news is
he’s only given up one HR. But, its probably pretty hard for a hitter to make contact with balls 3 feel out of the strike zone. In all honesty, its kind of a sad story.
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Dec 15, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be interested to see...
exactly how bad his control is. Just because he’s throwing a lot of walks doesn’t mean that he’s throwing pitches three feet out of the zone. In fact, the fact that he’s still averaging almost a K per inning and still giving up hits suggest he’s around the zone and not Ankiel wild. I wonder if he’s just not hitting the spots well enough.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lot of it is mental
Same thing that happened to Chuck Knoblauch and Rick Ankiel. Can’t get his head straight
by lamentir on Dec 15, 2008 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure it's the same...
I’m not sure I’d necessarily put it in the same category as Ankiel/Knoblauch. Ankiel literally could not throw strikes. Hill still can throw strikes (16 K in 21 IP suggest he’s around the zone).
It may be that he’s just not hitting the corners. It may be that he’s lost confidence in his ability to throw pitches by hitters in certain spots, and is thus working further off the corner. And it may be that he’s not fooling hitters anymore.
I could be wrong, but I wouldn’t be surprised if his control isn’t nearly as bad as Ankiel’s control was.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They gave up on him awfully quick last year
Especially after what he did in 07 in his first full year as a starter…that had to damage his confidence a lot.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
It’s “Steve Blass disease”. Can’t throw strikes, no matter how good his stuff.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that it IS Steve Blass disease.
Everyone is looking at this as though he can’t hit the broad side of the barn. He’s still getting Ks, which suggests to me that he’s not THAT wild.
It could be that he really is that wild, but it could also be that he’s just lost some confidence or some control and that his stuff isn’t fooling people anymore.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rich Hill is done
His baseball epitaph shall read “he lived (briefly) and died (ultimately) by the curveball.” I wish him well in his future life endeavors. Hopefully he can put his degree from Michigan to good use.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Fox should get a chance to catch again
Sure, he’s not left-handed, but he can hit the ball, and in letting him back up Soto, I have a feeling he could be just as valuable, if not more so, than Paul Bako or Mark Johnson.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 15, 2008 11:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If he could catch...
don’t you think he’d still be doing it? He’s been a good minor league hitter for years, suggesting his bat would be good enough as a catcher. The fact that he was moved from behind the plate should suggest something about his defense, in my opinion.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no
I’ve heard some rumblings about his defense since he was drafted, but it also could have been that Soto was regarded as a better prospect, so Fox was moved since he was a level behind Soto.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 15, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As far as I understand, teams usually look for a defensive minded back-up catcher.
I’ve always thought that the reason for this is the back-up catcher is usually the last position player used now due to teams only carrying 2 catchers.
Also, with the shortage of quality catchers in MLB, I think if Jake could catch, he would be catching in the minors. The fact the organization has moved him kind of tells you their opinion of Jake’s ability to catch.
I wonder if Jake would be more suited to a play all around the diamond type of utility role. It would definitely be fun to see him get a chance and he just might if he plays well in Spring Training.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 15, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - most teams do value defense
I just wonder when the stats get lumped together, who, would bring more value to the team – Jake Fox or Paul Bako.
I also think that while Fox’s defense was a reason to move him, making him a utilityman/corner outfielder also increases his marketability to other teams, as well as helping get his bat into the lineup.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 15, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Very true.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 15, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Um how bout Fuld ?
He is on the same team as Hill and I understand he is one of the top hitters in the league. I don’t know how to look
up the stats but would me most grateful is someone could. Also over at TCR someone mentioned had a major hand injury ( maybe a broken thumb I can’t remember) last Spring Training but tried to play through it which did not go well. I think he will be fighting for a bench spot this year.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2008 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No.
I know how much you love Fuld, but he simply is not a major league player.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the Cubs must think he is
He was kept on the 40 man roster. . He is hitting about .327 and in the top five in the league in OBP and runs . Lets see a great defensive left handed hitter, I mean why would we want him. Oh yea he does not hit for power so forget about it. I think he will get a good shot to make the club in Spring Training. You can check through his stats here.
http://mlb.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l135&lid=135&t=l_bat
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure he'll get about the same shot as Pie...
if not less. But hitting top-five in the Venezuelan league is sorta like dominating the Arizona Fall League (maybe even less impressive). We saw how much that meant for Fuld last year.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
per above
Fuld was injured in Spring Training last year which I suspect is why he did not do well when he most needed to.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh, come on.
Do you really think that Sam Fuld is going to perform over the levels he has done so far?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has a chance to be a ML 5th OF.
If So Taguchi can take up space on a ML roster, why can’t Fuld?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's a rhetorical question
that makes me throw up a little bit in my mouth.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You mean in his six whole MLB at bats ?
Brings new meaning to small sample size. After tearing up the AFL last year he got injured in his attempt to make
the roster the last Spring. You might want to give him another chance to make the team as a speedy guy with
excellent defense and a left handed bat that has shown excellent numbers in minors and winter league ball. I think
he might get more than six at bats to see. Like I said he was on the 40 man roster and not Veal and others so I am guessing the Cubs think he might be useful.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he posted a .747 OPS
at AA last season
it was his 2nd time at the level and it came after he was demoted, he went back up to AAA and posted a .627 OPS
at best Sam Fuld can by a pinch runner/defensive replacement on an expanded roster
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2008 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember a few years back when...
…we could have traded Felix Pie for about 75% of the players in baseball?
For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
by Less is Walrond on Dec 15, 2008 12:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
and Pie couldve been BJ Upton
It couldve gone either way, and still might, but Im not holding out hope it’ll happen with Old School Lou
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess old school lou
didnt do right with Soto either?? its not lou’s fault pie cant hit!!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou is fine
with a kid who can hit right out of the box but he has little patience with ones who need more time ( and many vets too)
If he had managed the Red Sox Dustin Pedroia would either still be in the minors or have been traded for Howry by now.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2008 1:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with that
Two living examples are Ryan Theriot and Mike Fontenot in 2007. Lou Piniella has a keen eye for talent and has demonstrated time and time again throughout his career that young players with talent can thrive under his managerial hand. The list of successful major league ballplayers who got their start under Lou in New York, Cincinnati, Seattle and Tampa Bay is long and impressive.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My spider sense is tingling.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
none of the key words
have really been used yet.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Give him time.
He can’t keep up this ruse for long.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
to the Backhoe
Robin! Quickly!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Those don't differ from the Soto argument...
Theriot and Fontenot were hot out of the gate. Piniella thus fell in love with them. One might argue he overdid it, as Fontenot plummeted in the second half of 2007.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are aware that Lou told the Reds' brass to trade Paul O'Neill
because his bat would never be good enough to play in RF, aren’t you?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and he wanted Lowe gone
His rookie season in Seattle because he had too many walks.
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 15, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So it's cuz of Lou
…that A-Rod is the greatest player in baseball, and that Griffey was one of the greatest, and Upton is good and Crawford is good and Kazmir is good and the list goes on…
How can you say that Lou has a keen eye for talent and for your example use Theriot and Fontenot…
by Glen Bishop on Dec 15, 2008 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou
doesnt have time for patience as we are in a win now mode.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Faulty logic...
you can be in a “win now” and a “develop players” mode simultaneously. See the Red Sox.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not every "prospect" is Dustin Pedroia
There’s no template to be followed. As some level you have to trust the evaluative skills of the people who run the show with the Cubs. The organization has invested a great deal of time, money and training into Felix Pie. They wouldn’t throw out such a major investment without careful and objective evaluation.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG - it IS him!!!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, too.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
The jig is up, and gone too!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it is who??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you'll see soon enough, I suspect.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
got it
I will go pound a little sand until I’m for sure.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When the sun sets...
…and the moon is in the 11th house, all will be revealed.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dust off the shovel, Martha!
I’m goin to the beach!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But at some point, when you’re not getting returns, you have to stop throwing good money after bad. That point hasn’t come quite yet, but it seems to be on the horizon.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I will agree to this:
if Felix Pie isn’t given a chance to play full time for the Cubs, they need to trade him as soon as they can; otherwise he really will have almost no value.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which is probably
the reason Felix is still a Cub, despite Lou’s insistence that Pie be the everyday Walgreens Celebrity Bat Kid.
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 15, 2008 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Felix can do a really great sustained awkward wave for 40 seconds
those kids are either heroes or picke don mercilessly the next day at school
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you know
being in “Win now” mode hasn’t helped us in the post season. Maybe we should be in “win all the frakkin time” mode…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a "win now AND later" mode?
If so, can we be in that mode? I really don’t get the ‘sacrifice the future of the team by breaking the bank right now’ mentality that seems to pervade the thinking of many people on this board. If we can get a farm system built, in a few years we won’t need to spend all our money to get good players for the MLB team from somebody else. And since we have a team that we know can compete and win the division, why do we need the major upgrades like Peavy? Get a few reasonably priced guys to fill in some weak points and quit trying to fix something that isn’t broken.
And I see that while I typed this, two other people posted shorter versions of my argument. Nice to know I’m not the only one.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LSA.
I am done with “win now” mode. D.O.N.E. Just be a smart baseball organization. Period.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
amen.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
brother.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
well they didnt really have any other option at C
So he had little choice, Blanco isnt a starter
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 2:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie didn't pan out
The hitting approach and plate discipline aren’t there. There isn’t much of a major league market for a guy who will eternally struggle to have an OBP above .300 and who offers up little else tantalizing except the ability to presumably play a quality center field.
Pie is somewhere in between a Corey Patterson and a Willie Tavares. Which is to say his future in a Cub uniform should be coming to a close by the time the Cubs break camp in Mesa.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pie
has a millions of dollars worth of talent and a 10 cent brain. he just dont get it which is extremely obvious to anyone that will just accept that it was a failure and be done with it.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where in the world do you get this idea about Felix's brain?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 15, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
obviously
he just isnt smart enough to make the necessary adjustments at the major league level. I’ve watched him on the basepaths too. He’s lightning quick but when decision time comes it just doesnt click for him.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and limited playing time
wouldn’t have anything to do with that?
Cmon. Instinct in baseball is through repetition of learned behavior. He hasn’t got enough of it.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
-100
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you say that?
Felix speaks 2 languages, his native Spanish and English. He has adapted to a totally different culture in the US.
Bet most people posting here couldn’t say that.
Personally, I admire International players who come to the US and make a whole new life for themselves at a very young age. I can’t image doing such a thing as a teenager.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 15, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
nobody
said a word about what languages he speaks blah blah blah. stop making something out of nothing. were talking baseball not religion,not education,not politics nothing but baseball, as this is a baseball blog. he’s just not baseball smart. you can get through the minor leagues with pure talent but at some point you have to be smart enough to make mlb decisions and he just dont get it.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You referred to Felix as having "a two cent brain"
I strongly disagree with that statement and and think that it is unecessary to personally attack a player when discussing their ability as a baseball player.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 15, 2008 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
While I disagree with the assessment...
…that Felix has a two cent brain, i don’t think that cubsluver was trying to make it a personal attack against Pie.
Part of the game relies on intelligence, and not just on talent. I think that cubsluver was trying to make the point that Pie lacks the intelligence factor… I disagree with him, but I’d would make this same argument about Ronny Cedeno — loads of physical talent but bad field awareness and a tendency for bonehead mistakes (e.g., getting thrown out a stealing second on a walk). Conversely, look at Greg Maddux over the past few years — not physically dominating but still able to make outs because, in part, he was smarter than most of the opposition.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Dec 15, 2008 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I can understand why...
…people have labelled Cedeno a “baseball bonehead,” because he truly has had a number of forehead-slapping moments. But I’ve never gotten that impression of Felix. I mean, he doesn’t strike me as a baseball genius by any stretch, but he hardly seems as mentally ill-equiped as cl22 makes him out to be. And I’d point out yet again that Pie just hasn’t gotten all that much playing time, so he’s more likely to be a little anxious when he does get out there.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree...
I think that there’s a big gap between making “boneheaded” play and making adjustments.
Felix has yet to make the adjustments that could lead to him being successful in the MLs — shortening swing, getting better at recognizing / taking pitches, etc… These are things that either come over time or they don’t. I don’t think that the fact that he hasn’t adjusted so far is an indictment of his intelligence.
I don’t know if he will make the necessary adjustments to be a successful everyday player, but I do think that it is possible that he can and also probable that he can adjust at least enough to be a 4th or 5th OF’er.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Dec 15, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think its unecessary
for you to make my comments something their not!! if you dont like em pass em by.
as far as you comment about a player’s ability to be a baseball player: every single player has great ability at this level. every player was the best on their HS teams, college teams, and through the minors or they wouldnt be here. Some have more god given ability than others. what seperates them is their smarts or brain. just like the greg maddux example below, maddux most of the time makes a hitter,hit a pitch where he wants it hit. manny ramirez makes a pitcher think he cant hit a certain pitch,only to get the pitch 3 innings later and drill it into the stands. the majority of the time in baseball you’ve got to be smart enough to recognize and take only whats given to you at a moments notice.
I’m all for throwing pie out there and seeing one way or another. I want this whole thing over with.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yogi Berra
liked to point out that he was not the best baseball player from his high school.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, so now you want to throw Pie out there?
Above you said “it [he?] was a failure and be done with it [him?].”
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so we can get it over with!!!
one way or another. if it were my decision he wouldnt be on this time right now.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so
those who think he was a failure… will think he’s a failure?
I think you’re drawing dangerously obvious conclusions…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"he just dont get it"
and you do………
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 15, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back.
And, CFs like you describe rarely are in much demand, I guess.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 15, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you thinkin' what I'm thinkin', DGU?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're talking about BLou, right?
I was thinking the same thing myself.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
There’s nothing specific I can point to … yet. Just an eerie feeling deep in my bones.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
reach out with your
FEELINGS.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Strong with the force, young Daver is.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But I was going to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I felt a great disturbance in the Blogosphere...
…as if millions of mambochickens suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you'll repair those sand pounders
and you’ll like it, young man. You’re too much like your father.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The BCB Blogospere - you will never find a more wretched hive of scum
and villany.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We're wanted men.
I have the death sentence in twelve threads.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear bluemike is about. I'll be careful.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU'LL BE POUNDING SAND!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You know that Bluemike has put a bounty on your head so large that
every blogger in the blogospere will be gunning for you.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Manchy kabook noonee Mambochicken...
makingsa lee ka bok bagthra beeska chata wnow kong bantha poodoo.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
aaaaahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We shouldn't be all that surprised
While BlueMike scares easily, we knew he’d be back, and in greater numbers.
"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark
by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 15, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
your backhoe
will be your undoing.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
someone ask him
what he thinks about pitching.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he says "pitching is king", you've got him.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
This so beats working.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, pitching is village idiot.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching
is FABULOUS!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean...
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
PRE
CISELY!
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
where do you guys find these things?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that about sums it up.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus, you know...
sparkly.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll just say one thing, concerning Lou
People criticize Lou for his not giving Pie a chance. Well, he’s not the only one. Pie has been given limited chances in the Dominican as well (he has less than 3 AB per game and hasn’t played in that many games either). Given less competition and given his stellar glove Pie still hasn’t been able to get regular playing time here either. So it’s not like Lou is the only one. I haven’t seen Pie this year, but last year they had hitting 8th. A friend of mine that sees him regularly told me they are calling him “the eternal promise” already.
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 1:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Some Cub fans always turn on the manager, and it is happening in spades with Lou
People wonder why we are on a 101 year losing streak. We go through these extreme cycles of gushing over a latest manager hire only to piss all over him when things don’t go according to opinions of what “the plan” should be. Felix Pie has become lightning rod for Piniella just like Corey Patterson was for Dusty. It is never permitted to be about the “can’t miss” young prospect busting out or falling short of expectation. Nope, it’s always about the manager irrepairably damaging the kid.
So I guess we are in one of those patented Cub fan cycles. Lou Piniella might have been the greatest and perhaps most inspired ever hire by the Cubs. But the couple year honeymoon is over and the guy is a bum.
Hendry could hire Tony LaRussa or Casey Stengel as next manager and the end result would be invariably the same. The manager would be labeled poor dumb bastard.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So what did you do during your time off?
Catch up on your reading? Nap? Hassle the guys at The Cub Reporter?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the name variations...Couldn't come up with something a bit
more discreet? Haha…Just pound, baby…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 15, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of like the new one. It's actually clever.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true...
Credit where credit is due…BLou…haha.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 15, 2008 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'll give him credit...
…that is pretty good. He could’ve gone one better, though, and made it “BLou from NIU”.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he could get an upgrade.
Become a special edition. Y’know, “BLouSE.”
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LMAO
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 15, 2008 2:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
BlueLou? BlewLou! Aw geez, it can't be!
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 15, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He needed the money! OHHHH!!!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 15, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i do too....
far more so that the last one.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Dec 15, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he could hire Casey Stengel.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 15, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure Stengel's head is cyrogenetically frozen on the shelf next to Ted Williams' noggin.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sure but if you're going to go with Cyrogenics
you might as well go with the sneakiest bastard around and re-animate Ty Cobb.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do you really not see a difference
in the way Corey Patterson was handled and Felix Pie was handled?
REALLY?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You know, if Pie doesn't pan out
there’s this other outfielder among the league leaders in the Dominican – he’s not going to hit many homeruns, but his OPS is .831; his BA is .333 and he has 12 doubles.
So, I would advocate signing Luis Polonia.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 15, 2008 2:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Felix Pie...
will be an all-star. 100% sure. It’s Lou fault he wasn’t one this year.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 3:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not convinced it's bluemike?
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Alfonso Soriano has a great hitting eye and never swings at a bad pitch.
by N Oakley on Dec 15, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou Piniella has a doghouse.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 15, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hitting is king.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
by bobby h on Dec 15, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"The Steinbrenner Boys"
could never get Peavy to agree to a trade to NY, even if they were waiting in the wings to rip up his contract and sign him to an extension. NEVER.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 15, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes...
you have to troll some blood to attract the shark.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
are you volunteering to be the chum?
Here, I’ll help:
We never should have let Kerry Wood get away, even if it meant signing him to a multi-year deal.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lurking...lurking...
da dum………da dum……da dum…da dum…da dum…da dum.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
whats the real definition
of a mambochicken?? Ive always wandered that!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Which, you know. Totally clears that up.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 15, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he just can't resist
a Felix Pie thread….
its like his cryptonite
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2008 5:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Is it only our prospects who have no plate discipline?
Or do other organizations have this problem too? It seems like the knock on all of our prospects over the years is no plate discipline. It’s as if the Pattersons, Pies, and Colvins are all cut out of the same mold. Or is that just a common problem for young players? Is that an organizational thing, or just bad luck? I, for one, am tired of “toolsy” players coming up through the Cubs system, prone to flailing at the high fastball or curve in the dirt. I hope we can fix this as the years pass.
by reedjohnson on Dec 15, 2008 5:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
this is just my opinion
but the cubs prospects that seem to have the most problem are the ones that get to wrigley and get themselves a taste of the homerun ball. biggest and best crowd goes nuts and i’m quite sure thats a feeling like no other. these guys like cpat and pie arent really typical power guys but seem to never give up trying to be.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the problem with your theory
is that these guys never took walks in the minors, so it’s not like they “changed” their approach. These guys are who they are. They have a lot of talents just plate patience isn’t one of them. Just like Adam Dunn has a lot of talents but adequately playing defense isn’t one of them
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats
why they arent major leaguers. inabilty to adapt to what the oppostion deals you.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
huh??
so the guys who are major leaguers are guys that do something completely different at the major league level than they did all those years at the minor league level to have success and get to the major league level???? That’s ridiculous
the reason they “are” major leaguers is because what always worked for them in the minor leagues is good enough to work for them at the major league level.
Guys don’t make drastic changes from what they’ve done all their life and had success with as soon as they get to the big league level. They have success because it’s worked in the past and it continues to work at this level
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2008 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I agree with you, DCF.
I once heard a baseball scout say that 90% of the difference between a AA player and MLer is above the shoulders. Guys who succeed in AA have the “tools” to succeed at the ML level, at least as bench players (both pitchers and hitters).
When he looks at kids, he is looking for tools, athletic ability, coordination, body type, etc.
When he looks at a guy who is in AAA (on the way up, having succeeded in AA), he is looking for “baseball intelligence” — the ability to make adjustments — and maturity. Guys who are immature won’t be able to handle the ML spotlight (at least immediately), and guys who can’t make adjustments at AAA won’t be able to make nearly enough adjustments to succeed at the ML level. He said that most of his scouting reports on guys above AA are about things other than raw ability.
You can take that with a grain of salt, as that is one conversation with one scout 25 years ago.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i think
you’re taking a nuance of my argument and expanding it.
My argument is simply this:
Guys aren’t all of the sudden drastically changing their APPROACH at the plate once the get to the majors.
The poster above suggests the reason Cubs prospects have failed is because of the easier ability to hit HR’s in Wrigley and the players then simply change everything and start hacking away, which he then cites Patterson and Pie
My argument is that this doesn’t happen. The guys who are swinging for the fences at the major league level were swinging for the fences at the minor league level. There aren’t drastic changes in your style. For the most part if you’re a patient walk-taker in the minors you’ll approach the AB the same way in the majors. If you’re swinging at first Fastball you see in the minors, you’re probably doing so in the majors.
What you seem to be referencing is the nuance between like players (both in style and skill) and deciphering those that succeed and those that don’t. You’re saying there’s something else, call it “baseball intelligence”, that the scout is looking to find amongst two like players to determine which one is more likely to make it. That I don’t doubt, and I do think the ability to make slight adjustments to your approach, work ethic, etc is likely the difference between making it and being a AAAA player. I don’t disagree with that
What I disagree with is the notion the reason the Cubs farm system has failed is because all of our top prospects come to the majors and all of sudden start swinging for the fences when they’d never had success doing that before.
note the original poster’s comments, i replied to:
“but the cubs prospects that seem to have the most problem are the ones that get to wrigley and get themselves a taste of the homerun ball. biggest and best crowd goes nuts and i’m quite sure thats a feeling like no other. these guys like cpat and pie arent really typical power guys but seem to never give up trying to be.”
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK. Point taken.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Batting EYE is a tool
the Cubs just haven’t figured this out yet…
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 15, 2008 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed!!
As is making contact. These have been undervalued tools in the past, especially the “batting eye”. Hopefully the philosophy is changing (though I still don’t get the super scout Wilkens drafting Colvin).
I also don’t want to hear the word toolsy in description of a Cubs prospect for at least 10 years.
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe there should be a 6th tool added
Run, Hit for avg, Hit for power, Field, Throw and Plate Discipline.
Yeah Colvin might not live up to that pick, imagine an 8th and 9th inning combo of Joba and Marmol
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
Cubs By The Numbers
Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.
Click here to order your copy, available now!
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
