Cubs to sign Joey Gathright
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 7:38 PM CST
345 comments
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/cubs-to-sign-jo.html
Hmm not sure how to flesh this one out to 75 words, but he's fast and has Lous Tampa connections. No link other than the mlbtr, whos source is from WSCR 670 in Chicago
Joey's coming off a robust .254/.311/.272, but was 21-25 in stolen base attempts. He does bat left and should be a decent 4th Out Fielder
UPDATED LINK
CHICAGO -- The Cubs picked up some speed on Tuesday when they signed outfielder Joey Gathright to a one-year contract for $800,000.
Gathright will be competing for a spot on the Cubs' bench. He was non-tendered by the Kansas City Royals on Friday after batting .254 in 105 games this past season with no homers and 22 RBIs. The left-handed-hitting outfielder was 4-for-14 as a pinch-hitter (.286).
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Hows his
fielding?
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 7:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Pretty good. from what I hear
He has absolutely no power when he swings the bat, but he can run like the wind. If I were a bettin’ man, I’d guess he’d be a late-inning defensive substitution to Soriano. That, or a pinch-runner.
by NittanyCub on Dec 15, 2008 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how this impacts Pie
Gathright can play LF and CF
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It has to mean Pie is traded
Gathright is Pie minus Pie’s upside and power potential (and that’s not assuming Pie develops power).
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
caveat...
Again, ASSUMING Gathright is actually signed, and is actually signed to a big league deal.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
True
I think this is pretty good, what you want from a bench OF; he can play more than one spot, is a lefty and can fly
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's "eh"
I mean, we already have that guy. And the guy we have actually has the potential to become a hitter.
It’s really no different than what Piniella was using Pie as late 2007 and late 2008.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well you might be right, it might not even be a major league deal
If it is, this has got to sum up how Lou feels about Pie and his place on this team
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or it could that Pie is being traded (np)
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The two are not mutually exclusive...
IF Gathright is being signed, Pie is absolutely getting traded, regardless of what Piniella thinks of Pie (which we know isn’t much).
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
SouthernCub is right.
And what we have here are two moves in concert that put the Lou Piniella stamp on the Cubs going forward. We trusted Ryan Theriot so much as to pass on Furcal at 4/40 and we trusted Pie so little as to get Gathright (and whatever we get in trade for Pie). Now, if we end up being able to land Roberts in a trade for Pie, it will be one thing, but for now, the comparison doesn’t look good for Lou.
Which would you take:
Ryan Theriot, Joey Gathright
or
Rafael Furcal, Felix Pie?
Lou doesn’t hesitate to take the first two.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In fairness, that's not a complete picture...
You’re ignoring the $10 million per year price tag on Furcal when we have a limited budget and still need to address the power bat in RF.
Remember – Gathright isn’t going to be a starter for us.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
I don’t know why a lot of people here are up in arms about this potential signing (hasn’t happened yet, officially). Gathright’s going to be a bench player.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 16, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I accept that the picture isn't complete yet.
But a lot of ground has to be made up in the rest of the acquisitions comparing these two packages of players.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really...
Pie wasn’t going to play for Piniella. Neither is Gathright.
I think whomever we get to play RF+Theriot may very well be more productive than Furcal+Pie. That’s a more relevant comparison. And the price tag will be about the same (or maybe less, if we trade for a RF).
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But then add to the balance the ability to trade Theriot
in a SS-starved market.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade that with the ability to trade Pie...
in a CF-starved market.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's seeking an unestablished CF right now?
The only team I see seeking a CF is the Yankees.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who's seeking a shortstop?
Crappy teams have holes everywhere.
Good teams aren’t trading for Theriot just like they aren’t trading for Pie.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers are a great team to trade Theriot to.
They signed Pierre to a long deal.
The A’s probably value defense too much to trade for Theriot, but they were in on Furcal.
The Royals were in on Furcal and could definitely be in the market for Theriot.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Dodgers aren't trading for Theriot...
And you can list bad teams that could use a good prospect in CF too:
Rockies, Orioles (moving Jones to LF), Seattle (moving Ichiro back to RF), etc.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why don't you think the Dodgers would prefer Theriot
to Jack Wilson?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I should say...
I don’t see any reason that Theriot would net more in return than Pie would net.
I don’t think the difference in trade pieces for Theriot instead of Pie is worth as much as the difference between the likely output of Pie/Furcal versus Theriot/whomever we get for RF.
Ultimately, that depends on several unknowns. But to say that it’s damning evidence that Piniella would prefer Theriot/RF to Furcal/Pie is a reach at this point.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because Lou Piniella is the only person on earth
who thinks that Ryan Theriot is a major league SS.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cue the dark and gloomy organ music...
followed by a bolt of lighting and the crack of thunder. Across the valley, the fog is starting to roll in. And off in the distance, the baying of the hounds can be heard, getting closer and closer…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Many miles away!
Something crawls to the surface…of a dark Scottish loch!
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?"
~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 1:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
I think it’s a given that Piniella wasn’t going to play Pie. And if that’s the case, it makes the most sense to trade him now while he still has prospect value.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is the only sensible explanation for this... (np)
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks :)
I like being called sensible!
But yeah, there’s really no reason to take a guy who’s very likely to be a lesser version of a guy we already have, unless we’re moving the guy we already have.
Gathright would give us what Pie would give us (given that Piniella won’t play him beyond defensive sub/pinch runner), and maybe Pie brings us something in return.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By "him" did you mean
Lou?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This has to be a preclude to a trade coming.
Soriano, Johnson, Pie, Hoffpauir, Fukudome, and now Gathright gives 6 outfielders, not even counting the possible signing of Bradley or another outfielder. It’s gotta be some kind of insurance from a potential trade coming up.
by NittanyCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you can classify Hoff as a 1B
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to.
The dude can swing, and I’d want him to play more frequently than Daryle Ward had. Given Bradley’s history, I don’t think labeling him as an OF isn’t that far out.
by NittanyCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we'll see a big role for Hoffpauir...
He may be a decent hitter, but he’s not an OF defensively, and it remains to be seen if he’s really a productive everyday-type hitter. I’d guess he replaces Ward, but maybe gets a few more starts here and there at 1B and in the OF.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I mean on the official roster he'll probably be listed as a 1B
so we wouldnt have 6 OFers, per se.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Semantics though...
We would still have to get rid of an OF to get that LH hitting RF. We won’t carry three backup OF AND a backup 1B.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good bet.
..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's fast but he can't hit to save his life...
He’s at best a late-inning sub and pinch-runner.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 7:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm...
Don’t we already have a Felix Pie?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 15, 2008 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If this actually happens...
it means we won’t have Pie for long.
But yeah, he’s Pie minus the upside.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just stunning.....I am speechless right now
…Gathright is a AAA roster filler.
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Dec 15, 2008 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We should note that Gathright put up a .371 OBP in 2007.
People keep comparing him to Pie, because they’re both fast and LH, but the real comp is Gathright to Theriot – both of whom have had just one good year in their careers, which included an AVG and OBP spike that looked hard to sustain.
Gathright is Theriot, just LH and faster.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's Juan Pierre minus the ability to hit singles consistently...
That’s a better comp than Theriot.
Gathright (if he is signed) will compete for a bench job. He may not even make the team.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, Gathright is a Pierre wannabe
and perhaps he’ll be Pierre if he can do what he did in ’07.
But if you want to compare Gathright to someone on our team, the best comparison is to Theriot.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which, for what his role will be, is just fine...
He’ll be a defensive sub and pinch-runner. He’s ideally suited for that role.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that he's a good enough pinch-runner, defensive sub.
What we’ll have to consider, though, if this move comes in concert with a Bradley signing (big if), what our OF will look like when Bradley is sitting.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm thinking the Bradley thing has cooled off...
Remember – when Hendry has wanted a key free agent in the past, he’s gotten it done quickly. I think the interest in Bradley may have been when Hendry thought he could get him for cheaper. I think the discussions may have cooled once Bradley gave his asking price.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
or maybe Hendry realized that in this market it pays to move more slowly.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Hope not...
I’d much rather Hendry have realized the price was too high and moved on to examining trade possibilities.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's Sammy Sosa minus the ability to hit for power and to walk out of the statium on the last day of the season
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 16, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nice
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Should also pass this along from 2002, He jumped over a car!
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 7:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
jumpy...
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 15, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats nuts, right?
hes not really tall either
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I call BS.
You can clearly hear the trampoline on the second jump. Also, if I had been a member of Royals management and seen this clip, I would have gone positively apeshit.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not BS
That sound you hear is his foot scraping off the concrete. If you have ever tried jumping off one leg, that tends to happen alot. You can clearly see he’s jumping off one leg and he’s not hopping before he takes off. I think it’s legit. Hell, I bet you any athlete in good physical shape, which he seems to be, could easily do it.
by McRipper on Dec 16, 2008 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I actually watched a drunk D1 football player jump over a car in the parking lot of my apartment a few weeks ago.
Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."
by Tate491 on Dec 16, 2008 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's funny
Did he succeed? I know of couple guys who could probably do it.
by McRipper on Dec 17, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah he made it
A couple of other guys didn’t though, which was extremely entertaining.
Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."
by Tate491 on Dec 17, 2008 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many times can you say
“yuck” in 1 minute? Certainly not enough after this news. This, if it happens anyway, signals the end of the Pie era in Chicago… as there is no sensible reason to have both of them on the team.
Yuck, yuck, yuck, etc…………………….. hope he is an outstanding fielder at least.
by Luis on Dec 15, 2008 8:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
We’ve already got a similar player (if not 2) on the roster. The offseason is far from over, but this is another lateral move.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 8:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I guess I will be the one guy
that is actually somewhat happy we are signing Gathright. We already know Pie is gone. And honestly I would prefer a Gathright/Johnson platoon instead of a Fuku/Johnson platoon because of Gathright’s speed. I wonder if this means there is somebody interested in Fukudome.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 15, 2008 8:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine that Gathright would be any sort of starter...
Remember – Gathright would be the primary portion of the platoon because he’s the LH bat. He can’t hit at all. He’s really fast, and he may be a good fielder, but he’s 28 and has a career OPS of 68. He’s a defensive sub and pinch runner.
Either Fukudome or Pie (and I’d guess it’s Pie) is going to be traded if Gathright is signed.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Gathright even better than Sam Fuld?
He isn’t better than Pie, so I guess that Pie is going elsewhere.
There might be a silver lining in this: perhaps Hendry has realized that signing Gameboard or Abreu to a big money contract would be stupid and he is going to trade Pie for a RF instead.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He MAY be better...
I mean, we don’t know if Fuld can hit an OPS of 50+, do we?
It also depends on the role. As a defensive substitute and pinch runner, Gathright is better than Fuld. He’s certainly faster, and is a wonderful base stealer. In any more expanded role, I can’t say with any certainty that Gathright is better, because if Fuld can hit at all, Fuld is an upgrade.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again with the Sam Fuld talk?
What it is this 2007, come on, he’s not a major leaguer….though I suppose you could say that about Gathright
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am by no means pining for Fuld...
I think this was merely a reference point for how bad Gathright is.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, Gathright is in the MLB...so...yes.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 16, 2008 9:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, there's starting to be more and more
whispers that Bradley prefers Tampa Bay. Maybe this just signals the team moving in a different direction. Perhaps someone did see this coming after all:
The article also lists Joey Gathright as a non-tender. What about the idea of Gathright as a platoon partner for Reed Johnson, and keeping Kosuke Fukudome in right field?
-That was from a post by Al on December 13th.
by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 15, 2008 8:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If that were the case...
Then it would have made more sense to simply PLAY Pie as the platoon guy in CF. Pie will provide as much offense as Gathright, but he at least has the potential to do more than that offensively. And you aren’t going to get better defense out of Gathright.
I really can’t see Gathright being brought in to platoon in CF. If so, it’s a gigantic step backwards for us as a team.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendrys having a hell of a month
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to reserve judgement...
until it’s confirmed that we have signed Gathright. And even then, I’ll wait until we see what we do to address the starting OF spots.
If Gathright is merely a defensive sub/pinch runner and Pie helps bring in the answer in CF or RF, then I’ll give Hendry a pass. In any other scenario, this is a REALLY strange sequence of events.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, i agree
but on the surface its not looking good. In and of itself, I dont think its a terrible move if hes a pinch runner/defensive replacement. But if he somehow spins Pie into Roberts/Peavy/Hermida/Hawpe type, then thats awesome of course.
I guess the good thing about being a Pads fan is you always know what your GM is thinking and doing.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't assume too much about Gathright's role.
Remember that our big lack last year on the bench was a speed guy. We’ve probably just picked that guy up.
It is also possible that Gathright, under Perry’s coaching, will be a better hitter v. RHP than Reed Johnson. That bar is not so very high.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That will be irrelevant though...
as we’ll likely have Fukudome and whomever we get for RF as options to platoon with Johnson.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It will only be irrelevant
if that RF stays healthy.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well if we're assuming injury...
then that’s another discussion altogether.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You operate on the presumption that Felix Pie can succeed in the bigs
Clearly the Cub organization, after all it’s major investment in the young man, begs to differ. They have vested stake in seeing Felix Pie succeed. The fact that they have been moving in other directions that don’t involve Pie says to me they are prepared to write-off their investment in Pie. I don’t know how you or anybody can say that is faulty thinking. We aren’t the baseball people who run the Cub organization and have worked with Pie and seen Pie on a day in and day out basis.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Never heard this argument before...
SARCASM.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me how the masses on BCB have better judgement on Felix Pie than Hendry, Piniella and members of the organization
Also, explain to me why otherwise they are prepared to write-off a player that they scouted, drafted and spent enormous time and dollars developing.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can I explain to you that this is a fans blog
where people debate the merits of various moves using facts and opinions?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Explain to me how GMs/organizations are always right...
players develop at different rates. Just because the Cubs may or may not think Pie will never succeed doesn’t mean they’re right. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong either.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But let’s face it. The argument has devolved into irrational defense of Felix Pie on the one hand and significant Lou bashing on the other. As if Lou is supreme dictator and Hendry, Oneri Flieta, the scouts, etc. have no say in the matter.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd call both sides of the debate irrational...
it’s irrational to think Pie will certainly become good. It’s ALSO irrational to say that a 23-year-old certainly WON’T become good.
I don’t think all the blame is on Piniella either, and to summarize this as “Lou bashing” is faulty logic as well. Piniella and Hendry both will be to blame if Pie is traded and winds up being a success.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry cant force Lou to play Pie
He’s not Al Davis/Jerry Jones
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hendry and Fleita
were both letting it leak out that they were not happy about Lou’s treatment of Pie last spring once the season began and Lou benched him 4 days in. The “Cubs organization” is not monolithic.
At this point, we all having debated this to death, I think we can understand that the organization may just have realized that they can get good trade return from B’more and are willing to give up the debate by trading Pie. That is not the same as “writing off” Pie.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well said...
Clearly the discussion is appearing more and more to be moot. Ultimately, we’ll find out what kind of player Pie is within the next few years as he gets his chance to play somewhere else.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lemme
be the first to welcome you back bluemike. how do you think the offseason is going??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
by cubsluver22 on Dec 15, 2008 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm reading his
comments thinking the same as you.
by sue369 on Dec 16, 2008 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You operate on the presumption that teams make the right calls...
I think it’s fairly clear that the Cubs have given up on waiting for Pie to develop, regardless of if Gathright is signed.
That doesn’t mean they’re making the correct decision. I think the list of guys who didn’t succeed at 23 but ultimately figured it out is pretty long. That’s no guarantee that Pie WILL figure it out, of course. It also certainly would be the first time a team missed the boat on a player’s development.
Further, the Cubs may not be giving up on Pie as a player, but giving up on Pie developing as a player THIS YEAR. For a team in a “win now” mode, they may have decided that trading Pie for some value now is worth more than waiting for him to hopefully develop. Again, that doesn’t mean they’re right – just means that’s what they’ll do.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't identify a single player the Hendry administration gave up on that succeeded elsewhere
Jason Dubois? Corey Patterson? Bobby Hill? Matt Murton? Can you name anybody who Hendry gave up on that went onto productive results elsewhere?
Hendry has routinenly traded away good prospects to get good major league ready now return. Examples include Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto in the Juan Pierre deal. Also Sean Gallagher (and I would eventually think Josh Donaldson eventually) in the Rich Harden deal.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardly a reasonable example...
when you don’t have any prospects who succeeded in the past decade, it’s easy to say they’ve not been wrong in letting anyone go. Doesn’t mean that moving forward they might not be wrong.
Further, I’d say they missed the boat on Eyre, who turned out pretty good for the Phillies last year. No – he’s not a prospect, but that’s an even more glaring “oops” than missing on a prospect, in my opinion.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I never got why
we decided to keep Howry over Eyre…. Or why Reed Johnson didnt get any at bats in the playoffs.
by dlee25 on Dec 15, 2008 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lou.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the same Reed Johnson
who was a career .365 hitter against Lowe….while Edmonds was below the Mendoza line against Lowe.
Lou pisses me off, seems like a good game manager, but it doesnt change the fact that he simply pisses me off.
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 16, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes Lou goes with a platoon split...
… instead of playing matchups. You’re right, it borders on stupidity.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call Hill and Murton failed prospects.
They were used to acquire Aramis, Lofton, and Harden. Who is to say that Hendry did not think Hill would turn into something good? The problem with Pie is that he wasn’t traded at peak value and he isn’t getting playing time. Ship him while you can or let’s see what he can do.
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 11:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on keeping Fukudome in RF
(save that $ for a lead-off man please)
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 15, 2008 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
This may be the dumbest, most comical move of the off-season.
Even if you could get past Joey’s hitting (in)ability, the Cubs have officially reduced the value of Felix Pie on the trade market to a AA non-prospect, and a bag of balls. Why has he not been traded already, if the Cubs were going to make this move?
Please tell me that this rumor has been refuted.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2008 8:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The timing would definitely be odd...
it would make a lot more sense to trade Pie first, before signing a guy who makes it glaringly obvious that Pie is out of the Cubs picture.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's so out of it...
it’s crazy. I can’t see the Cubs getting anything for him — unless there is a trade in late-stage negotiations now.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2008 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was about to say that below...
That can be the only thing I can think of, even Lou has to believe Pie can do what Gathright does.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't the O's still love Pie
I won’t mention that name from the O’s but he did have an extension deadline and I believe that deadline is passed.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 15, 2008 8:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've never heard that they loved him...
and personally, I’ve never really seen the match. Adam Jones looks like a long-term solution in center, right field is solidified, and Pie is wasted in left.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2008 8:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The only way it'd make sense...
is if the Orioles would prefer Jones in LF. Otherwise, it’s an odd mix.
FYI – when the Peavy 4-team deals were being rumored, the Orioles portion involved Pie.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Frankly,
that’s when I started figuring out the Peavy talks were going nowhere.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2008 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really the point...
The idea wouldn’t necessarily have come out of nowhere. Just because the Peavy talks stalled doesn’t mean that it was because the Orioles didn’t want Pie.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's not quite what I meant...
I meant that when the rumors had Pie going to Baltimore as part of that deal, that’s when I knew it was going downhill. I sense that the rumored Baltimore love of Pie is more the media making guesses than anything else.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2008 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That may or may not be the case...
That was my point. The discussion of Pie to the Orioles is based on the rumors that Pie would be going to Baltimore in the proposed Peavy deals. Whether or not Baltimore is actually interested is another story of course.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so.
McPhail’s memories of Pie will be before Pie’s “failures” here. Also, Baltimore won’t be wasting Pie or Jones if they play either in LF for the next year or two. It’s only a waste if they have both in LF when it comes time to contend. Playing two CFs and trading one after his value is re-established isn’t a bad strategy at all.
It is still possible that Felix becomes the better CF than Jones.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There may be.
The O’s showed a lot of interest in the proposed 3-way for Peavy.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
it depends on his contract, if the guy signs a minor league deal it doesn’t.
by cubsfan25 on Dec 15, 2008 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not totally against this
As i said, he can run like wind and can play 2 OF spots for sure, but this just really (if true) makes me a little upset with the Lou’s refusal to play Pie. I mean, he’s gotta be able to do what Gathright does, correct?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 8:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Correct...
as I’ve said before (and I apologize for the repetition), Gathright is Pie minus the upside.
Pie gives you great defense, great speed, and hasn’t shown he can hit. Gathright gives you solid defense, really great speed, and hasn’t shown he can hit. The difference is that Pie has some power potential and will be 24 (thus with some hope of getting better), whereas Gathright has Juan Pierre power but is going to be 28 and thus there’s little hope he’ll learn to hit.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie's getting dealt and
either will be part of the Peavy deal or a deal for a RF.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bren, fwiw, I'm not totally against this either.
Gathright’s a guy who could fill a role on this team.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a Major Leaguer
The guy belongs in the Independent League! If you can’t cut it with Kansas City, and Tampa (before they became good), then you don’t belong on a 97 win team looking to tweak the lineup.
Weird move. He won’t come out of Spring Training.
Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!
by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 15, 2008 8:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
There's always hope...
see Todd Wellemeyer. But if the Cubs sign a RF/CF bat, you’ve got four outfielders already, and Mark DeRosa in a pinch. And that’s not including Pie.
It’s a weird, weird move.
by Damen Jackson on Dec 15, 2008 8:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The official site has some info on this
by neonverse1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
…here’s the link
The unexamined blog is not worth reading.
by neonverse1 on Dec 15, 2008 8:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Competing for a spot on the bench makes sense...
what doesn’t make sense is signing the guy before making a move with Pie.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a late inning replacement for Dunn. ;)
Will move Fukudome over the RF and put Joey in CF.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 8:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I like how youre thinking
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy with that...
of course, I fear Abreu would be the more realistic possibility.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You may be on to something...
Though Adam Dunn is headed to the Angels in my opinion. Especially with Mark Texiera on the cusp of joining the Red Sox.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently,
Anaheim has offered Tex 8 and 160. If Tex doesn’t return to Anaheim, then it appears they’ll go after Manny, but could get in a bidding war with NY…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 9:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Olney says Boston might have offered over 200M
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Omg
Didn’t think Boston would go beyond 140… From what I’ve read Manny’s 2nd on Anaheim’s list…. I’m hoping Bradley signs with Tampa and Dunn slips to the Cubs.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Man... talk about the rich getting richer...
If they were to get Teixeira, that’s just an absurd lineup.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess theyre worried about Ortiz's decline already
But yeah, Buster Olney said that on either espnews or mike and mike, I think it was the latter….though I think the Yankees probably actually need him more.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's to replace Lowell...
They’ll have Pedroia/Ortiz/Bay/Teixeira in some order, along with Youkilis. They can move Youkilis back to 3B and have gold glove quality defense at both sides of the infield with premier bats as well.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 7:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny? He is going to retire, havent you heard?
…Hilarious….he isn’t feeling the love right now
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spmanny115960657dec11,0,548502.story
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Dec 16, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Ramirez told a friend that he spends most of his time working out, watching cartoons and playing video games.
He forgot to add, “…and crying like a little girl.”
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There is method to his madness
Manny has always struck me as being crazy like a fox. Plus it’s hard to quibble with the monsterous nature of his offensive ability. Quite simply the guy is one of the top 5 run producers I have EVER seen play the game in my many years of following baseball. Manny is insanely special with a bat in his hands.
The bidding for Manny will begin in earnest just as soon as Mark Texiera signs with somebody. I’ve got to believe that if the Angels lose out on Texiera then they get into magma hot pursuit of both Adam Dunn and Manny. Hence another reason why I think Dunn also hasn’t signed yet. He too is waiting for the Texiera shoe to drop knowing full well he has a “fall back” position of the Washington Nationals.
by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't disagree.
Once Texeira falls into someone’s hands, the other FA sluggers will start to drop as well – much like Burnett signed not too long after CC.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a bit too much to-do about a guy...
…who will probably sit on the bench if he even makes the team, and could very well start the year at AAA.
And no, Joey Gathright does not “suck,” unless you just want to ignore defensive value.
by cwyers on Dec 15, 2008 8:56 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Try to explain to me wOBA
I’m reading FanGraphs’ explanation right now. It sounds like it more accurately weighs the said value of a player – his ability to both get on base and to get big hits. Sound right? So is this more valuable than OPS?
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The generic wOBA formula is:
(0.72xBB + 0.75xHBP + 0.90×1B + 0.92xRBOE + 1.24×2B + 1.56×3B + 1.95xHR) / PA
Fangraphs uses custom formulas for each season and I think league.
To convert wOBA to runs above average:
(wOBA-lg_wOBA)/1.15*PA
where lg_wOBA is generally around .338 (whatever the average OBP is for the league). The 1.15 is because of how wOBA is scaled.
Yeah, I’d say it’s more valuable than OPS/OPS+, certainly more accurate. I don’t believe Fangraphs is adjusting for park; StatCorner.com should have park-adjusted wOBA.
by cwyers on Dec 15, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I’m almost done with regression class and moving on to multivariate next semester. Starting to learn how to run these analyses myself.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That does seem more accurate than OPS+, I guess I'll have to leave BR and head over to FG now for my quick-n-dirty stuff.
I think offense was overall down this year, right? So this would be a different number for each year. Hmm.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 9:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs has...
…wRAA and wRC (runs above average and above zero based on wOBA) as well. So you don’t have to make your own sausage, although you can if you want to.
by cwyers on Dec 15, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would a HBP be worth more than a BB?
Also, what does RBOE stand for?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 11:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
RBOE is the equivalent of getting on base by error. I’m going to assume (possibly incorrectly) that a batter that reaches base by (1) being hit, (2) by a team error, or (3) a walk is worth more than a single or a walk because these are more highly correlated with a run scored. For instance, a guy that gets hit is probably a good indicator that the pitcher isn’t doing so well, and a team error is probably correlated with bad defense/more likely to advance future runners. Then again, I might be wrong.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 11:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that seems like a stretch
a guy getting hit can be just a freak thing, as an error can sometimes be.
RBOE stands for Reached Base On Error
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
RBOE is reach base on error, yes. It’s worth more than a single because it’s easier to score on an error than a single and because occasionally you can reach second on an error.
Hit by pitch is worth more than a base on balls because pitchers tend to walk batters more when there’s somewhere to put them – you will sometimes pitch around a guy with first open but not with the bases loaded. Pitchers have far less control over hitting a batter with a pitch (except for intent pitches).
by cwyers on Dec 16, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
I guess you aren’t giving the batter extra credit in return for the bruise? :-)
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 12:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how is it easier to score reaching on an error than a single?
that doesnt really add up to me, and if your talking about reaching all the way to second than an error, then comparing that to a single isnt really logical.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It has nothing to do with being easier or harder.
It has everything to do with which is more likely to produce the outcome of a run scored, and for reasons we discussed above, there are other ways to reach first base than a hit that are more likely to produce a run.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 16, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont see it up there
give me a quick explanation, a guy gets on first from an error or from a base hit, how does that make one more likely than the other to score?
cwyers said, Its easier to score on an error than a single
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because there's a chance you'll end up on second
Like cwyers said, when you RBOE there’s a chance that the error will result in you being on second instead of 1st. Being on 2nd increases your chances of scoring.
Walks always result in you only reaching first.
by Wreckard on Dec 16, 2008 10:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
right, well thats not in relation to a single then
of course reaching 2nd on an error is better than a single, no one made that distinction.
But how often does a guy go from the plate to second on an error? It would have to be a ball thrown over the 1st basemans head.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 16, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2006-2008, a player who reached on error:
Out – 0.42%
1B – 83.75%
2B – 14.74%
3B – 1.05%
Scored, earned run – 0.02%
Scored, unearned run – 0.02%
by cwyers on Dec 16, 2008 11:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
youre gonna have to elaborate on that
does that mean a player reached 1st on an error 83, second 14 etc etc?
I guess I would have to see how the corresponding numbers for base hits to see what results in more runs
your clarification below was more along the lines of what was confusing me, thanks.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your interpretation is correct. For a single:
Out- 0.89%
1B- 96.42%
2B- 2.47%
3B- 0.21%
Scored, earned run –0.00%
Scored, unearned run – 0.01%
A double or triple grade out as more valuable than an ROE in wOBA, so the value of a single is what we’re looking for as a reference point.
by cwyers on Dec 16, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lemme clarify that.
It is easier for OTHER baserunners to score on an error than a single. If the third baseman throws the ball three feet to the right of the first baseman and he has to go chase it down, a runner on second has a better chance of scoring than he would on, say, an infield single.
by cwyers on Dec 16, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that why a HR is 1.95?
Obviously, the batter scores (unless he infamously passes a runner). Does 1.95 imply that, overall, .95 runs will score in addition to the batter?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm still trying to completely understand wOBA myself...
…but here’s what I undestand thus far:
wOBA is a weighted estimator, meaning each value of getting on base is given a coefficient (i.e. 1.95) based off data. These coefficients are determined from last year’s data, a collection of years, or even determined by that specific team (like Colin said above, park adjustments). So, it is estimated that a home run outputs 1.95 total runs. This isn’t always the case, obviously.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 16, 2008 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, I believe that .95 represents the average number of runners on base when a homer is hit
that score in addition to the obvious 1 (the guy who hit the homer)
by philadelphiacub on Dec 17, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The "to-do" about Gathright...
is in his impact on Pie.
As a defensive sub and pinch runner (at best), he’s fine. He’s fast and good defensively. But it almost has to mean “bye bye” to Pie, because we won’t carry six OF-only players and we’re still looking for the LH power bat.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
+1
I’ll be fine with this move if he is just limited to a part-time or AAA role. It just seems to diminish whatever value Pie has left and I’m wondering if we will indeed acquire another LH outfield bat. It seems odd to make this move before a Pie trade, and if there is not a Pie/Dome trade, then why is this even necessary?
Free Ronny Cedeno
by Kansas25 on Dec 15, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1...rec'd
That is exactly what my issue with this is.
New sig currently under construction
by JB 23 on Dec 16, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's to-do because it's a huge leap
You’re assuming that a guy cut by the lowly Royals is going to get a major league contract from us.
My guess is that this will be a minor league deal, adding some roster depth at the OF position.
by Wreckard on Dec 16, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that what Brad Snyder is for?
My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.
by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 10:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a minor league deal.
He’s on the 40-man roster, which now stands at 38.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright is a 5th outfielder type
I will presume his role will be to serve as defensive replacement for Alfonso Soriano, add defensive versatility to play all over the outfield and, importantly, serve as jack rabbit who can be used as pinch runner and even some selective starts. All in all a good addition. If he can fulfill this type role then great, if not then you move on to your next option
Got to believe this officially spells the end of Felix Pie. I’ll guess he is about to be included in a package to acquire a right fielder or another bullpen arm.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This really makes that afternoon a few years ago watching Pie in the Futures game a complete waste
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
nittanycub…its good to know there is someone on here who shares a love for the cubs and the great nittany lions
by mattpsu on Dec 15, 2008 9:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gag me.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully I'll see you at the Rose Bowl brother
I got my tickets
by NittanyCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even know that he makes the team
But it doesn’t hurt anything; always nice to have another rabbit. This could be a fall-back in case Pie gets dealt, but I don’t see it as proof of anything.
Anyway, we finally got one of those KC outfielders.
by JodyDavis on Dec 15, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Hendry indicated
that it would be difficult to fill the spots needed if he were to trade for Jake Peavy. Any chances this is to prepare for a larger move down the line (not necessarily The Player Not to Be Named Part II)
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 15, 2008 9:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well it would certainly only be roster filler...
The questions are:
1) is the rumor even true?
2) if it is true, is it a big league deal or a minor league deal?
The answer to both of those questions would determine the likelihood of a big trade being made.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is time to re-sign Jim Edmonds
Clearly two things at play in acquiring a left-handed hitting outfielder.
1. Hendry is hamstrung in what he can do financially
2. The market of available free agents and trade targets isn’t great
It’s time to stop messing around and get Edmonds back here. He will likely come back on a one year deal in the $5 million range. That beats any of the other options I have heard bandied about. I can live with another year of Edmonds.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure where you came up with that estimate...
as it’s been repeatedly said that Edmonds is contemplating retirement. I don’t think the lack of movement on Edmonds is so much a function of a lack of interest in Edmonds as it is a function of Edmonds wanting to spend more time with his new family.
At a deal for $5 million, Edmonds MIGHT be a worthwhile gamble. There’s the risk his body falls apart again, and there’s the possibility that his bat disappears again. I’d rate him behind Dunn in terms of my personal interest.
But ultimately, it comes down to whether Edmonds even wants to play next year.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hed be worth it if he can accept the same role he had last year
On a one year deal, it would be similar to the arguments for signing Randy Johnson
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 9:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
Jim Edmonds is contemplating retirement and for all I know he has already made his decision to do so and hasn’t yet informed the world.
Adam Dunn? I see no chance of Hendry having the financial means necessary to make a deal work. Not when a team like Washington is willing to offer him the moon and the Los Angeles Angels might be in very serious pursuit the second the lose out on Mark Texiera.
Bobby Abreu? Sounds to me like a guy who really, really wants to find a way to return to the Yankees.
Milton Bradley? Sounds to me like a guy whose heart is clearly on playing in Tampa Bay.
by BLou on Dec 15, 2008 9:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say any of those guys is likely...
I was just commenting on the fact that you made it seem as simple as offering Edmonds a $5 million deal and problems are solved. It’s not like the Cubs are dragging their feet on Edmonds, so the scenario you presented just didn’t seem apt.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know where you're getting your information...
bradley never said that he clearly wants to play in Tampa. He said that the Cubs were his first choice.
Bobby Abreu sure would probably love to return to the Yankees but he’ll accept going some where else. I don’t know where you get the “sounds to me”
by lexmarklover on Dec 15, 2008 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why did you say 15 minutes before "it is time to resign Edmonds"
Good to have you back , Blue Mike
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 16, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yea where the heck is Blue Mike these days?
by philadelphiacub on Dec 16, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Look around closely...
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 16, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
(whispering) He's right behind you.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's posting from INSIDE THE BUILDING!!!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hahahaha.
The call…it’s coming from…INSIDE THE HOUSE…
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 16, 2008 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I'd bring Edmonds back...
I smell a Gary Gaetti situation here…
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 16, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Two different people, different times.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a wild guess...
I didn’t like the way he ended the year, and have trouble seeing him being as good or better than last year.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 17, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bring him back in May
See how the platoons (whether it’s Fukudome/Johnson, Johnson/Pie or Johnson/Gathright) go; then, if Jimmy still isn’t playing (which is likely), see if he’s in baseball shape (odds are he will be).
Then sign him. He’ll have fresher legs, having missed April, plus his chance of injury goes down, IMO, if he plays 5 months instead of 6 and having to warm up in chilly April.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is all assuming he has an interest in coming back at all...
There has been repeated mention that he is heavily contemplating retirement to spend time with his family. If that’s the case, I doubt he comes back period. But I’d really doubt that he’d come back in May.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The itch of baseball
once it gets going again, could stir some feelings in Jim about playing again. He certainly wouldn’t be the first guy to decide to stay home, then get nostalgic about playing again.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I got a cream for that if he needs it...
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 17, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what happens when the usher doesn't clean the seat for you...
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the problem with bring him in in May
is that he won’t have ST to knock the rust off and get comfortable at the plate. I say skip him, unless he want’s to come to ST and fight for a roster spot.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 17, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC, he did have a couple hard knocks in the NLDS.
They just didn’t quite make it out of the ballpark. I hate when that happens.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, ummm...
So far this offseason has been absolutely pathetic for the Cubs. Trade Jose Ceda for Kevin Gregg and now this? If this means we’re not getting Bradley i’m going to be EXTREMELY pissed off.
We better not trade Pie either.
by illini23 on Dec 15, 2008 9:50 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
This would have no impact on signing Bradley...
It very probably WOULD mean the trading of Pie.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
PIe’s gone… Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s dealt by end of the week.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Pie's
traded because of this Gathright signing i’ll be very mad. You can’t tell me Felix Pie couldn’t be the exact same player Gathright is…At least Pie has upside though.
And i’ve been seeing people say Bradley prefers Tampa. Where are you guys getting that info from? I’d like to see a link.
I’m sure we’ll have the higher bid, most baseball players prefer to play in the field instead of DHing and I assume Bradley would too. And with his bad knees playing on astroturf wouldn’t be very good. Signing Milton Bradley is a MUST.
by illini23 on Dec 15, 2008 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie will bring in
either a RF or Peavy…
Iirc the Bradley rumors are on mlbtraderumors.com.. Bradley may just prefer being a DH. Better chance he’ll stay off the DL and maximize his future value..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 10:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what's the link?
and I wouldn’t just dismiss the fact that Bradley wants to play in Chicago more than in Tampa. Also Gerald Perry was his former hitting coach. Those two things add up to something….
by lexmarklover on Dec 15, 2008 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Tampa has other options in Giambi and Burrell. Hopefully we get a deal done with Bradley.
And I highly doubt Pie will land us Peavy. I don’t think SD was too high on him. I used to be optimistic the Cubs would still pull a Peavy deal off but not anymore. Not until the trade deadline at least…
by illini23 on Dec 15, 2008 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie was one of the pieces in the multi team deal
that could be what theyre alluding to
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 11:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie would be part of the deal..
ugh.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lazy asses
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8938060/Yanks-shedding-salaries-to-go-after-more-players
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
by CubFaninCA on Dec 15, 2008 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal is a freakin tool
Maddon is a similar style manager to Lou Pinella. He’s the same guy that pulled BJ Upton a few times for not hustling….What has Pinella done these last few years? He’s a changed man. I don’t think there would be any issues between him and Lou. Bradley’s character issues are a little overblown.
by illini23 on Dec 16, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is a terrible off-season to have a problem in RF and with LHB.
Because damnit, I don’t like anybody available.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 9:52 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed...
there’s a lot of crap on the free agent market.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we made the same mistake last year.
Lou wanted a LHB power hitter for RF, so Hendry signed Dome to a huge contract. Why? The next best LHB FA RF was Trot Nixon. In retrospect, we might have been better off keeping JJ and having more payroll flexibility this year.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 15, 2008 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Please.
Jacque Jones was not a better replacement than Kosuke Fukudome.
Dome VORP: 6.1
Jones VORP: -8.5
Jones actually managed a negative OPS+ with the Marlins. And that’s just offense.
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Dec 15, 2008 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There are about $40M reasons why JJ might have been a better choice,
just like Luke Scott might be a better choice than Bobby Abreu. JJ had an 87 OPS+ in 2007; Dome had a 90 OPS+ in 2008. Is 3 points in OPS+ and better defense worth $6M and 3 extra years of commitment?
Dome is being paid like a power hitter, yet he is basically a leadoff hitter. Abreu wants to be paid now for his age 29 production, yet a 3/$48M contract would force the Cubs to trade Harden or DeRo and would hamstring the Cubs for 2010.
It’s one thing to pay Ted Lilly $10M a year, because he is a solid #2 or #3 SP. It’s another to overpay for a middle of the order bat that isn’t truly a middle of the order bat — unless you have Mark Cuban’s checkbook to bail you out.
When guys are overpriced the best thing to do is pass.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's the best way to sum this offseason up...
That’s the way I have felt, but this was the first time I actually realized it…Trades notwithstanding, there just isn’t “the guy” IMHO.
Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow
by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 16, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Peavy involvement
So he says theyre not pursuing a trade, but wont rule out anyone approaching them…..so maybe Pie is involved in some indirect, convoluted way.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 10:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it...
I’d guess Pie would be involved in a chase for a RF or LH reliever if he’s traded.
by SouthernCub on Dec 15, 2008 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well wasnt there some sort of Pie/Olson component
to that 4 way deal? Someone said it up above, he could simply be roster filler in the event Pie is gone daddy gone.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 15, 2008 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There was rumored to be...
but the Peavy deal fell through. And with San Diego ownership changing soon, the push to trade Peavy may also go away.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 7:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a dumb move....
I’d rather have Pie.
This guy better be released during ST.
Keep ‘em coming, Hendry! You’re on firrrrre!
by EJThunder on Dec 15, 2008 10:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well.
I did originally post that I thought Gathright would make a good platoon partner for Johnson. However, I did that before I actually looked up his platoon splits, which show… that he wouldn’t really make a good platoon partner.
Anyway, this seems like a move for the bench, for OF defense (he could spell Soriano, for example, in the late innings) and pinch running.
It does probably mean that Felix Pie is going to be traded… somewhere. The best time to do this would be after he has his usual hot streak during spring training.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 16, 2008 4:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Guy can't make the Royals but can make the Cubs?
isn’t that saying something??
BCB Works Miracles: It saved my English grade!
by Chanman25 on Dec 16, 2008 6:22 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
No.
Gathright has been pegged as a back-up for quite a while, which is exactly how the Royals used him. His speed and defense will be useful to Lou. Having Gathright will help our pitching. – TL
[In 2008] Kila Ka’aihue had the best on-base percentage of any hitter in the minor leagues. - Joe Posnanski, 11/9/2008 ... Ergo, let's give him a shot at first base in KC in 2009.
by timlacy on Dec 16, 2008 10:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie's defense and arm are far superior
If his value is defense, then this signing makes no sense at all.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 16, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It makes more sense to trade Pie...
if all you are going to do is use him as a backup. Gathright can do what Piniella would use Pie for. Might as well get something in return.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But what will you get for him?
His value would seem to be at an all-time low, with Gathright’s signing dragging it even further down.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 16, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Using him as a defensive sub/pinch runner next year...
Would bring his value down even more than signing Gathright I think.
Granted, if I knew for sure he wasn’t playing a key role next year, I’d have traded Pie already. I wouldn’t have waited to trade him until now. I agree that signing Gathright does devalue Pie some on the trade market.
But it’s a sunk cost. Hanging onto him and continuing to not play him does MORE damage to his trade stock. And you know Piniella isn’t going to play him.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing that Hendry got a good sesne of what deals would be out there for Pie
during the Peavy 3-ways. This signing shouldn’t bring his value down that far.
Honestly, until we’ve signed another FA OF (or traded for one), our OF should still be filled out as Soriano-Pie-Dome with Reed and Joey as the two backups. That’s a good OF.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It makes no sense at all only if you assume Pie had a chance to play.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright
He’s not even that great @ stealing bases.
Join the BCB Flickr Group: http://flickr.com/groups/bleedcubbieblue
by tony412 on Dec 16, 2008 8:33 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
He has 78 stolen bases in 1145 AB. That’s about 40 per season in a full season. And he’s got about a 75% success rate which, when you consider that he’s a high-volume attempter, is pretty solid.
He’s not Jimmy Rollins or anything, but he’s pretty good.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gathright is a 5th outfielder type who can run
He is what he is. A defensive specialist who can provide a spark on the basepads. Remember Tom Goodwin? Well that is Joey Gathright.
by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright's a better defensive player than Goodwin.
Goodwin was a better hitter. And Gathright is younger now than Goodwin was when the Cubs got him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 16, 2008 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
im thinking
he is insurance if Bradley goes down…
by Kchance on Dec 16, 2008 8:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Except that Milton Bradley seems to really want to play in Tampa Bay
by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on what evidence?
Not saying it’s not true, just saying that I’d like to see some evidence of that.
I think Bradley is a better fit in the AL, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest he prefers Tampa over Chicago.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't either, but I do think he'd fit in there well as a fulltime DH.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 16, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
Bradley is a very capable OF defensively when healthy. He just can’t stay healthy when he plays in the field. I think the AL is a better fit. I just haven’t seen anything at all that would suggest HE feels that way.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hope not...
as he’s pretty terrible insurance.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
Why all the uproar about Pie being traded? This is a good move to replace the inevitability that is Pie’s trade. He’s exactly what Pie has given the Cubs since Lou came onboard. Clearly, Pie will never be able to fulfill his potential with Lou as the manager and that’s to at least 2010. Pie will be what, 26-27 at that point? He’s never going to get adequate playing time with the Cubs as long as Lou’s the manager. Trade him while you still can.
by McRipper on Dec 16, 2008 9:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If this were a car jumping contest...
Gathright would be a great addition. But it’s not, and therefore he’s not.
He would make a great pinch runner, and perhaps a good defensive sub (not sure about his D), but is that really worth a roster spot if that’s all he can bring to the table?
by kanderber on Dec 16, 2008 9:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
If we've got the other 24 spots on the 25-man well covered
then, yes, I’d gladly have Gathright stealing bases and playing plus defense off the bench. I’d argue that Gathright would be more valuable day in and day out than our 12th pitcher.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you on Gathright vs. 12th pitcher
But, while I know no deal has been finalized, it does limit Felix Pie’s trade value even more when a potential Pie suitor sees we have two Felix Pies in stock.
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again Gathright is more like Ryan Theriot than like Felix Pie.
A team that wants Pie wants him for his upside. I think Hendry has, at least, a good framework for a trade to Baltimore after they began negotiating in the Peavy deal. In fact, it may be that Hendry feels the need to get Gathright before trading Pie.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 11:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a thought:
Is the Gathright deal a precursor to picking up a defensive liablity/big bopper in RF?
Gathright seems defense-only. Is it to compensate for a terrible RF?
As for why Gathright gets this kind of consideration instead of Pie, I’m not sold. Maybe Lou just liked working with Gathright?
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 10:54 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Or is it option related for Pie?
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're on to something...
Cubs are going to petition MLB to see if it will be okay for Dunn to carry Gathright in his back pocket. Then whenever a ball comes out to right field, Dunn will just pull out Gathright and toss him towards the ball. ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe they could just stash Gathright in the ivy.
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
by znohitter on Dec 16, 2008 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Pie in the minors
Pie’s stats were only OK in the minors. Are minor league stats a good predictor of ML success, or just one piece of evidence?
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=11427
"These are terrible times, and I shouldn't joke about them." --Warren Zevon
by ExNorthsider on Dec 16, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
they're incredibly similar to soriano's minor league stats, and at a younger age:
by kylejo on Dec 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
annnnd my link didnt work
bring up felix.
by kylejo on Dec 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano is a great comp for the type of player Pie is...
with the exception of the fact that Pie is fantastic defensively. Both are lanky, fast, line drive hitters with poor plate discipline.
The problem with a Soriano comparison is that you can probably find similar comps for guys who didn’t make it. It’s a lot harder to make it if you don’t have plate discipline.
But yeah, the minor league comps are similar.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The answer is "both"...
.903 OPS in AA at 20, .973 OPS in AAA at 22. Those are good numbers, especially when consider his age at those levels.
As for your questions:
Minor league stats ARE a good predictor of ML success; and
Minor league stats are just one piece of evidence.
There’s no such thing as a sure-fire predictor of success. Minor league numbers (especially when age is factored in) are one of the better predictors, but they are definitely no slam dunk predictor either.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Muskat says Gathright injured last year
Supposedly he had a shoulder bone bruise for a chunk of last year. I guess that means his bat might improve in 2009, but I still don’t think he was worth more than a minor league deal with a spring training invite.
Isn’t Pie out of options? Cot’s does not show that info, but I was under the impression that he was in that situation. If so, Hendry had better trade him for anything of value soon.
by Qixotl on Dec 16, 2008 11:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
His bat isn't going to be useful
The shoulder injury only accounts for part of last year, not his entire career.
Pie IS out of options, and has been discussed it is pretty much a given that he’ll be traded with the Gathright signing.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2007 Gathright had been re-inventing himself
in much the same way Ryan Theriot did in 2008. If Gathright can manage to replicate 2007’s work and provide a .300 AVG and .365 OBP off the bench, that bat has value.
Of course, the big question – not just on Gathright, but on Theriot also, is whether that kind of hitting style is sustainable. Gathright’s 2008 suggests it was not, but we can give him an injury mulligan and see what he does.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The hitting is likely irrelevant...
unless someone gets hurt. My point was that I wouldn’t expect much with the bat, even considering the injury.
Also, I don’t think Gathright did any reinventing of himself. His line looks pretty consistent with his previous lines in terms of power and walk rate. He just had a bit more success with singles that year. And again, it was in a very small sample size.
I suspect random variation and not redefined hitting approach. But again, that’s neither here nor there.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to answer this
Gathright in 2007 in AAA starting hitting the ball on the ground more and taking more walks. He initially brought that same approach to the majors, but had trouble sustaining the walk rate as he was making a lot of contact.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not buying your theory...
Gathright’s extra-base hit rate looks virtually identical over 2005-2007 in AAA and in MLB. His BB:K rate in MLB looked exactly the same as it did in 2006. The only thing that looks different is that he got seven more singles in AAA in 2007 than in 2005, and ten more singles with KC in MLB in 2007 than he did in 2006 with KC.
Based on those stats, I’m not buying the “he was remaking himself as a hitter in 2007” argument. I would argue that the aberrant BB:K rate at Omaha in 2007 was evidence he merely got more comfortable against AAA pitching in 2007, having it be the third time he’d seen it. I might buy the argument that he was growing as a more patient hitter beginning in 2005. But that growth has never surfaced in MLB over the past four years.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you're seeing in the stats
so I went back to look where I got this idea originally; Kevin Goldstein’s the culprit, writing this July 2007:
Great Leap Forward: There’s no obvious candidate, so is it totally foolish to give some love to Joey Gathright? Gathright came out of the box at Triple-A Omaha a changed man—keeping the ball on the ground and drawing walks like they’re going out of style—batting .328/.450/.392. Called up to the big leagues, he’s continued to get the job done, producing at a .317/.406/.367 clip.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was probably reasonable speculation...
To be fair to Goldstein (and you) – at the time that was written, if you ignore the 2005 season in AAA it would seem like Gathright was a changed man. At that point, he DID look different as an MLBer. It’s just that the MLB numbers were based on about 70 AB at that point, and Gathright didn’t maintain the walk rate the rest of 2007. The remainder of Gathright’s 2007 was about a .298/.354/.323 line. Which isn’t too different from what he d
But, at the time, it was a fair thing to speculate. And to be fair, I think he HAS improved his plate discipline from his early (pre-2005) years.
And maybe Gathright really was a changed man in 2007. It may be that Goldstein had more information on Gathright’s approach. I just doubt it based on the numbers, and suspect Goldstein was speculating.
Ultimately, I just think his expected performance as a hitter is probably the same now as it was in 2005-2007.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also mentiond in the link in Qixotl's post above...
…sorry for the duplicate
"Just win tonight" - derv
by derv on Dec 16, 2008 11:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hemming and hawwing over salary and Jim blows $1 million on this guy?
Hendry and the ownership needs to sack up and tell Lou to play Pie. This is ludicrous.
by dr stabbingworth on Dec 16, 2008 12:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Based on what happened last year,
if Hendry gave Lou Sori, Pie, RJ, and Dome as his 4 OFs, Lou would play Sori, Dome, DeRo, and a RJ/LBR platoon. Pie would end up in the witness protection program.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So basically...
The only thing we’ve done this season to make our team better from last year is to let Kerry Wood and Edmonds go, and sign Joey Gathright? Oh okay, I see what Hendry’s doing here…
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Gathright info from a Rays fan.
First, you need to see this video of him jumping a car.
Defensively he can track down about anything and was constantly crashing into the wall and making great catches at the Trop, though obviously he won’t be doing that at Wrigley.
He’s faster than Carl Crawford, but doesn’t have the base running skills that you would expect from someone that fast.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Dec 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah...
His arm is worse than Johnny Damon’s. Coaches will consistently send runners on him.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Dec 16, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I see...
Sounds like Juan Pierre without the singles.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 16, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We can share...
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 16, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough...
I definitely think it’s pretty applicable.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
1) Jumping over cars doesn’t translate well to actual baseball games
2) We’ve seen enough of dumb baserunning on this team (ala Cedeno).
3) Does he have an arm?
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 16, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is he a worse baserunner than Ryan Theriot?
(That’s a trick question . . . .)
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack Cust once fell down running from third to home.
Jack Cust is kind of like the opposite of Joey Gathright.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I follow
Is that because Gathright falls (or fails) running home to first?
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2008 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically I meant
as far as types of players go – Cust and Gathright are opposites.
I’d pay money, though, to see a video of Cust jumping over a car.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's Gathright again.
I want to see Jack Cust do the same trick.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or is he like Germany Schaefer
and runs from second to first?
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the info...
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Much ado about nothing
This doesn’t look like a significant move. If this signing happens, it just means there will be another outfielder in the mix competing for a job in spring training. The Cubs don’t have a logjam of young outfielders ready to come up if someone gets hurt. So why not take a flyer on someone who could play all 3 outfield positions. If he doesn’t make the team, you stash him in AAA or trade him.
by tom veryzer on Dec 16, 2008 12:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I've signed a deal with myself...
…to not make too much of this signing. It’s still relatively early in the off-season, so, as others have pointed out, this could be a precursor to another move. Or Gathright could be the Angel Pagan of 2009.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Have to agree with this not being a big deal
As Al said, not sure why there are people “up in arms” about this signing. I didn’t see everyone losing it when they traded Angel last year or didn’t resign Cliff Floyd, both of which will probably have the same impact on the team that this signing does. The fact that Gathright is on the cubs, really won’t be a deciding factor on what this team can accomplish or how far it can go.
However, if this is Hendry’s idea of solving the left handed bat problem that we talk about everyday (which its not), then that would be a problem. But the cubs aren’t the Reds and we all know (hope) that it is a precursor to a real move on the horizon.
by KButler on Dec 16, 2008 3:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
b/c it might impact Pie, which would effect other areas of the roster
and b/c Pie has been the crown jewel of the minor league system for the past 4 years or so
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 16, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bigger deal than those because...
Pie has been the top prospect for years, and this signing effectively signals the end of the Pie era as a Cub. That’s kind of a big deal.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on who they get for him, right?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
but we don’t know what that IS, yet. That’s why it’s a big deal now. And I’m sure there were those people who hadn’t realized that Pie was likely to be gone. This is big news to them, too, regardless of what we get.
I’m not saying it’s a bad move. I’m just saying that it IS an understandable reason for people to make a big deal out of it.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 8:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But for that reason...
… it’s not a big deal UNTIL Pie’s status is finalized. And it isn’t yet.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 9:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a big deal TO YOU...
but (and this is especially true for those who may not have realized/accepted that Pie was going to be traded) it IS a big deal to some. And for those who think this reduces Pie’s trade value by hurting our leverage, it’s a big deal now.
I’m of the camp that is comfortable with getting Gathright given that he’s just a defensive sub/pinch runner. But I definitely understand why his acquisition is worth discussion right now.
From a different perspective, if this ISN’T worth discussion, what would you rather people be talking about? This is the offseason, and we’re discussing a move that’s being made. Isn’t that a GOOD thing for your site?
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure.
I just don’t think anyone needs to panic. Yet.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree - no reason to panic...
It’s still pretty early in the offseason. I think it’s a big deal, but definitely not reason to freak out. WE CAN’T HAVE ANYBODY FREAK OUT! :)
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Chicago newspaper stories on the Gathright signing
certainly saw an implication for Pie. Check the headlines, e.g.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose thats true.
But really, Pie needs to play everyday on a big league roster to develop and see if he becomes the player that everyone once thought he could. This cubs team is not the place for that. It is only a few years before some of the players become “old” and the “win now” mentality of this franchise isn’t going to go away anytime soon. Bringing someone the caliber of Peavy, Roberts, etc. (obviously only speculation), would be beneficial to both the cubs and Pie at this point.
by KButler on Dec 16, 2008 3:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And to my sanity...
Because I’m getting very antsy for something big to happen.
Someday we'll go all the way...
by CubsBullsBears on Dec 16, 2008 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Something like a three-way trade
that nets the Cubs Jason Kubel and Brian Roberts?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Gathright????
where’s SWL with the vomit pics
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 16, 2008 3:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So lets get this straight
Wood gone, Pie most lilkely gone, Edmonds gone, Blanco probably 80/20 gone,
and we end up with Gaithright, Gregg and probably Paul Bako, WOW pencil us in for the World Series.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 16, 2008 4:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Its easy to think that way
But I think Marmol not only will be an excellent closer, but that it was his time, regardless. Kerry has been a fan favorite and one of the most stand up guys in baseball for a decade, but its hard to say he was dominate last year.
Pie, I would not say is “most likely gone”, but if he is, I would expect a tremendous talent coming back for Pie as well as several other prospects. Besides, I know the kid was supposed to be the best talent in our farm system, but he played in 43 games last year batting 241 and 87 the year before batting 214. I dont think if he is gone, that it will hurt our “world series” chances.
Edmonds, will hurt, but I highly doubt he would put up even comparable numbers to last year and doubt his ability to stay healthy. I think we all expect a high quality outfielder such as Bradely, Abreu or even Dunn to eventually be part of this team, far exceeding Edmonds current ability.
Blanco certainly has been a great backup and mentor to Soto. Still, even with the catcher market thin as it is, I doubt that he will find a place to start at his age and with his health problems in the past. Even if he doesn’t return to backup, Bako or Valentin did find jobs for the reds in non-starting situations and would be rather comparable, filling in for Soto for about 50 or so games.
EIther way, I dont think are team has actually changed very much in either direction and would only expect more additions, rather than subtractions (obviously)
by KButler on Dec 16, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That is all speculation
that Pie is going to bring a “nice” chip back. Pie never got a shot here. Gaithright is the same as Pie . Blanco is not a starter we know that, however he was huge in the developement of Geo, just ask Geo. Not offering him a deal is a mistake, hell he would sign for a reasonable one year deal.
And to compare Kevin Gregg to Wood is laughable. This team is not better than last year, At this point.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Dec 16, 2008 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it will be a shame if they don't bring back Hank White.
I haven’t really read anything definitive either way, though. I wonder whether the death of Henry’s brother has stalled negotiations for the time being.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt count on Bako
It could just as easily be Hill or even Castillo
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
by bren on Dec 16, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is Hill
If the Cubs believe Castillo has MLB starting C potential, having him on the bench isn’t going to help his development.
Besides, if it’s Hill, we’ll all know what pitch is coming during the windup!
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2008 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Koyie Hill = Not Good
There are better backup catchers available in the open market. Much better.
by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never claimed otherwise on either counts
But if Bako isn’t signed, I think Hill is the backup.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2008 7:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or on either COUNT, even.
whoops
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson
by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2008 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Care to name some names?
Assuming Koyie gets that whole “giving away the pitch” thing under control, I think he was a solid defensive catcher in ‘07. His bat is virtually nonexistent, but he’s very inexpensive and presumably knows the Cubs pitchers and organization as a whole. I’d still rather see Hank White back.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll toss a few names out there
Javier Valentin (formerly of Cincinnati)
Wil Nieves (owner of Bob Howry)
Matt Trenor (Mr. Misty May)
I’d like to see Hank White back with the Cubs, first and foremost, however.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fact is the Cubs gave up on Felix Pie quite awhile ago, but I guess some of you weren't paying attention
The pronouncement that Kosuke and Reed Johnson will split time in center was your first clue. The second clue was the acquisition of Joey Gathright to serve as defensive specialist, pinch runner and the 25th guy on the roster who runs out and gets Cokes for the rest of the guys when they get thirsty.
by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 5:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No I agree to a point.
It wasn’t the Cubs who gave up. It was Lou. This was clear 4 days into 2008’s season, although many didn’t buy it until Edmonds was signed.
We’re nearing the end of the great Pie debate. He’s out of options. He’ll be traded. And we’ll see how he hits. By this time next year, we’ll know a lot more about how Lou’s judgments on players worked out.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Correct...
Pie will likely get his shot on some other team next year. Hopefully for him, he succeeds (though that would suck for the Cubs). But at least we’ll get the chance to actually see what he can do and stop having to argue about hypotheticals.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, it depends what the Cubs can get for Pie.
If he can turn, by trade, into some useful part for the Cubs, then he’ll have been worth having. The best time to deal him would be after he has his usual great spring performance, raising his trade value.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Dec 17, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Partly correct...
It depends on what we get in return for Pie AND what Pie himself does as a player. If we get a decent return, but Pie tears it up next year, then it wouldn’t have been worth it. If we get a good return and Pie tanks, it’ll be absolutely worth it. If we get limited value in return, then I’d argue we hung on to Pie too long (given Piniella’s distaste for him) regardless of what Pie does moving forward.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 8:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we don't get a good return for Pie elsewhere
I don’t think Hendry would have walked away from Peavy.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe...
or it could be that he felt he could get a better return for DeRosa in another deal. Or it may be that Hendry couldn’t get the right combination of money and prospects changing hands. I wouldn’t say that the Peavy deal dying is clear evidence that Pie will get value. Could be the case, but there are a lot of other reasons why the deal may have died.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
Part of me almost wants Pie to be traded at this point just so I no longer have to read endless regurgitations of the Pie debate. My gut tells me Lou sees something wrong with Pie that he (Lou) just can’t get past.
And the way the Cubs are handling the situation is not unlike what a lot of corporate organizatons do. When faced with a choice between the recent college grad with a smattering of part-time jobs on his resume and a guy with several years of real-world experience, they’re going to roll with the latter to manage their risk.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone
a little concerned that the Cubs are going to move into 2009 with a lesser team than they exited the playoffs with? I know there is plenty of time, but it seems like Ol’ Jimmy is just sitting on his hands. They lose Wood and Edmonds, and so far we’ve brought back Jackie Joyner Kersey and the White James Worthy. I don’t know about you, but I’m going to be royally PO’d if a proven LH bat isn’t acquired, because than they lost out on Peavy for no good reason.
Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.
by TCobb1911 on Dec 16, 2008 8:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Patience...
If we went into the season with the team as is, I’d absolutely agree that we’re worse off than last year. We’d have taken a big step back in CF and in the bullpen. And we have several guys coming off career years (DeRosa, Theriot, Dempster). Even if they repeat their performance from last year, we’d be less than what we were last year.
That said, the season doesn’t start tomorrow. I suspect Hendry is still looking for the LH power bat and still looking for another reliever. Once we see who those guys are, we can discuss whether we’re a lesser team or not.
by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The real question is
while Theriot, Demp, DeRosa, Edmonds, and Fontenot all had years you wouldn’t expect them to repeat, we also had a number who were below what we’d hoped to see – Lee, Fukudome, Hill, and Soriano in games played. I don’t expect Hill to bounce back and I know there are several who believe Lee and Dome are on downward trends. If only one of Lee and Dome bounce back it will help cover the fall back of several of the others.
Then there was Z. In his first two months (86 innings) he had a 2.51 ERA. In the last 100 innings he had twice that in ERA. Breaking down his game logs, I’m seeing a pattern where either the first or second game after every 8 inning outing, Z got torched. On the one hand, we could hope that Z, if limited in pitches and innings, could be that ace we saw glimpses of last season. On the other hand, there’s a definite cause for concern that his workloads have him strained to a breaking point.
If you take the optimistic view on Z and hope that one of Lee/Dome bounces back, there’s good room to help pick up the players who will be coming back down so long as they don’t come down too far.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Post-career year risks
Looking at the guys you cited as having career years, I don’t see too much risk for major come downs.
1. Theriot – I just don’t think he’ll drop off that far. His OBP was consistent all year (if not his OPS) and he is in his prime
2. DeRosa – three strong years in a row, for him, and if he drops .070 in OPS he’s still at his 2007 level, and he helped the team win that year too
3. Edmonds — he’s gone, but that’s only 250 ABs gone. Not going to sink the team, missing that, especially since another LH OF who can hit home runs is likely to be acquired
4. Fontenot — he’s one who I think could turn into a pumpkin, but like Edmonds, it’s not too many ABs to replace (can it really be called a “career year” when you only had 243 at bats?)
5. Dempster – yes, he is a risk for providing less production in ‘09. It’s one reason I liked the potential Peavy trade, along with the other SP question marks..
Shouldn’t Soto and Marmol also be risks? Or are these guys firmly on the way up?
I guess I agree the team is vulnerable to post-career year regressions, but I think those regressions won’t be too extreme.
"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano
by JohnM on Dec 17, 2008 6:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's see
1. I don’t expect he can sustain this hitting style for long.
2. He shouldn’t come down too far. And who knows, he could maintain.
3/4. You’re right that the two had limited ABs, but put the two together and you had a supreme LH bat. This is what we have to replace according to our off-season plans, but then you ask – if lacking LH bat was the problem in the post-season and we had both of these guys in 2008, how will we actually be fixing the “problem” by adding only one?
5. It will be interesting to see Demp’s pre-season predicts from people here.
I believe in Soto going forward. Marmol’s case is all about how he is used by Lou. He broke down under the heaviest usage in the majors last year, so, we’ll have to see if being a closer protects him more. I won’t be surprised to see 2009 repeat 2008 with periods of brilliance mixed with periods of horror.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 7:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some good points there...
I think it’s possible that Zambrano has been overworked, and that has resulted in the decline in his numbers and the recent development of his minor injuries. It’s not like last year was wildly aberrant. He was a 3.95 ERA guy the previous year, and 3.91 ERA guy this year. Given that his K rate plummeted, there is legitimate reason to question which direction he’s headed at this point. The hit rate went up and the K rate went down, while the BB rate was in line with his career norms. Along with the nagging injuries, that’s reason for concern. I guess I’m not an optimist though.
As for the others, between Lee, Fukudome, and Soriano’s injuries, there’s certainly hope that we can get improved production to offset any decline from Dempster, Theriot, and DeRosa. The question then is “who replaces Edmonds/Fontenot, and who fills Marmol’s role now that Wood is gone?”
I think given everything, we’re definitely behind where we were last year. Depending upon who we get to fill those two roles, we may get back to where we were last year or even better. But without an answer in RF, I think it’s hard to argue that we’re as good right now as we were last year. Luckily, right now doesn’t matter much (which was my original point).
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not the season-to-season aberrations for Z
so much as it is the in-season aberrations. What’s particularly interesting about Z’s 2008 splits is that his ERA went up as his k-rate went up. The first half of the season, he struck less batters out, walked less batters and was very good. The second half of the season, he raised the k-rate and became a poor pitcher. Now, he also upped his walk rate and gave up more homers, so it’s not like the k-rate was the thing. Rather, I think, that k-rate is a gauge for us of the way Z was trying to pitch.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In-season aberrations are common...
players aren’t metronomes, so month-to-month variation is common. The fact that, over a larger sample like a season (still small, but more meaningful), we’ve seen Zambrano trending in the wrong direction over the past few years.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Z isn't just having regular in-season variations, I think.
What’s interesting to me is that what we would point to as a sign of trending in the wrong direction (k-rate) ran inversely in 2008 to Z’s success. He was better when he wasn’t getting so many strikeouts.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which could be evidence, or it could be sample size...
That’s the problem with in-season variation. It’s a small enough sample that weird trends can emerge. Though I do like your hypothesis that he was trying to be too fine (resulting in more K, more BB, and more HR) and not relying on defense. Of course, one might counter that the defense was failing him, which was causing him to try to be more fine, resulting in the K/BB/HR increase. Who knows?
In either case, the overall question remains – why is Zambrano trending in the wrong direction from season to season, and is that trend going to continue? The optimist, as you say, can point to to stretches in 2008 when Zambrano looked great. The pessimist can point to the overall numbers (increased hit rates, increased ERA, injuries, and falling K rate, for example) and be nervous.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's alwasys interesting to look at the "value" signings of a team.
I consider value signings the type of contract a team signs a player to where they have a good chance to ourperform their contract. Generally, they are short-term deals of a year or two.
Contracts like the $800,000 one they signed Gathright to are what I consider a value signing. Also, players teams can pay the minimum to are value contracts (Soto, Theriot, Fontont, Marmol). Sometimes, players coming off of injury end up signing a value contract to prove their are healthy.
Personally, I think value signings are one of the most intriguing things to watch in the hot stove. Often, it seems there are a handful of players that make a huge impact on their teams. Just last year Kyle Lohse was signed at a bargain and ended up maybe the biggest value of the 2007 off-season. Frank Thomas turned out the be the biggest value of the 2006 offseason.
The question is, who will be the biggest value signing of 2008?
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 17, 2008 10:28 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Reed Johnson would fall under that definition...
…going into this past season.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and Edmonds too.
Hey, it's a new century!
by cowsarecool220 on Dec 17, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Edmonds would have been a bigger value in 2008...
but Johnson was good value too.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Gathright signing
He infuses some needed athleticism and speed to the equation. Plus he is plus outfielder who can play left, center and even right. And he didn’t cost much to add to the roster.
by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 11:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
You forgot to mention...
…that he essentially kicks Felix Pie off the team.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lets just say...
….that I’m not going to lose any sleep over Felix Pie coming back to haunt the Cubs in another uniform. He won’t stick in the majors with anybody because he will eternally struggle to have an OBP of .300. If I were him I’d be learning how to play left field and right field ala a Joey Gathright as means of enhancing my future ability to perhaps stick as a 5th outfielder type. His portfolio of value is too small right now.
by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we're aware of your position on Pie...
And I think we can all agree it’s time to move on to other points of discussion.
by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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