Rosenthal: Furcal to sign with Braves

Given the fact that they already have Yunel Escobar at short

I’m sure it will be only a matter of time before the Braves-Padres Jake Peavy rumors heat up again. Seems strange the Braves were willing to give him a 3+ year deal after the injury problems he’s had.

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 16, 2008 3:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Interestingly...

… that’s less per year than he got in his Dodgers deal, and also less per year than he would have gotten if he had taken the Cubs’ offer before the 2006 season (4/48, IIRC, and that deal would still have a year left it he had taken it).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 4:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yea, but why would a team (that's not the Yankees or Red Sox)

want to shell out money for a position that they already have covered? You would think a smart franchise like the Braves could use that money more effectively. They didn’t have any problems letting him go when he was younger and healthier, why pay him now?

by Juiceboxjerry on Dec 16, 2008 5:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Since they lost out of Burnett

perhaps they have more incentive to trade for Peavy. This would free up Escobar, the Padres are in need of a starting shortstop, seems to make sense.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 16, 2008 5:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There are so few good SSs

the Braves have to like what they can get by trading Yunel – not necessarily Peavy – but something good.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Peavy braves rumors

If one is to believe mlbtr, yesterday they were saying the Braves were left with a bad taste in their mouth and maybe even some bad blood after dealing with Towers, and they might just put furcal at 2nd and put Johnson in Left Field, or go after Greinke

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That idea isn't awful...

at all.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No it's not.

The Braves can play that configuration in the field.

I still think, though, they’ll trade KJ.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No, I agree...

n/t

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes, that was rosenthal i believe

who suggested that, and it is very possible, although it doesn’t address their big bat need. Although … some do think that Escobar can increase his power.

I’ve got a hard time, though, seeing the Royals deal Greinke without getting a boatload in return. The Francoeur rumors were largely debunked (it was a fairly idiotic rumor). I’ve said all offseason that I think a good case can be made that Greinke deserves an equal, if not bigger, return than Peavy, and I stand by that. There’s no reason for the Royals to move Greinke since they are aiming to compete now.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree on Greinke.

He is a very, very good pitcher.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Randomly thinking on Braves/Greinke

There is definitely a fit if Moore wants to go down that route. Furthermore, dealing Greinke, if they net a big enough return, could be the motivation Moore needs to shift Soria to the rotation.

The Royals are looking for another middle infielder. Looking at recent trades for cost-controlled young starters (Haren, Bedard, and so forth, even going back to Colon), here’s my take on what I think it might cost

With Yunel, I’d say a package like

Yunel Escobar, Jordan Schafer, Cole Rohrbough, and perhaps one low level guy

With Kelly, I think they might need to fork over Hanson. If not, it’ll be much harder. Maybe something like

Kelly Johnson, Jordan Schafer, Brandon Hicks, Cole Rohrbough, Charlie Morton – ugh, don’t buy that as enough.

Anyhow, every trade has it’s own environment. If the market got crazy for Greinke, which I can buy, then they might net a Bedard level return.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

randomly thinking on braves/maholm

now, this one, I think is more possible, despite the rhetoric from Huntington. They’ll still want a good return (personally, I think Maholm is a middle of the rotation guy and they would be fine signing Kawakami). I could see maybe something like Charlie Morton, Cole Rohrbough or Jeff Locke, and one lower level guy with decent upside perhaps getting the job done. I’ve got a tough time thinking that they turn down a ready arm and a high upside lefty, along with another piece, for Maholm.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder who plays short for the Dodgers now

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 4:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yunel Escobar?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 7:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He might be heading to the Padres for Peavy.

Pure speculation on my part — I have no inside info.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's dead

but I could be wrong.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I also think it's wrong

I can’t believe the Braves would be willing to add two big contracts.

But I could be mistaken as well.

by Josh77 on Dec 16, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

braves had a lot of money entering this offseason

this was the first offseason in awhile that they had financial flexibility. most indications were that they wanted to add one high priced, tor arm, along with a mid-rotation guy, and after that, they might have the financial flexibility to land a big bat in FA along with it.

so no, i don’t think it’s an issue of finances, but rather, an issue of desire/need/fit.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I get the feeling that

Towers loose lips pissed off Wren so much that he doesn’t want anything to do with that deal anymore.

by Wreckard on Dec 16, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The korean guy probably

his name escapes me at the moment.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean the guy from Taiwan, Hu.

So the Dodgers can say, “Hu’s on short.”

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Taiwan, really?

Hmm I was way off

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, at least you had another Asian country.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I was thinking of our Korean SS

whos name also escapes me

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hak-ju Lee

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Escobar

was part of one of the packages the Braves offered the Padres for Peavy. They were willing to move him then, so I don’t see them being more willing now. But, then again, with the pieces they included in the Vasquez trade, maybe this will open the door for them.

by bamix1 on Dec 16, 2008 6:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

mlbtr says they might try for Greinke or Maholm

link

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish we'd offer them Ted Lilly

and sign Randy Johnson to replace Lilly.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh, no.

Johnson’s a possibility, but I don’t want to give up Lilly.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Save money. Sell high. Get a middle IF who can play the position. What’s not to like?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hes won 32 games as a Cub

and was probably better this year, with the exception of his horrid April

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And I like his bulldog attitude.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be happy

if Ted Lilly had my back in a fight. Just sayin…

Brian McRae's 5 o'clock shadow

by PurpleLineToWrigley on Dec 16, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sometimes keeping high is just as good as selling high

of course, one could argue getting high is best of all, but it’s too early in the morning for that… except for JohnM across the pond. ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask yourself this question.

What do we need more: a SS in his mid-twenties who can field the position, making league min, or a 12 M pitcher in his early thirties, who can be replaced by a better pitcher in his early 40s who’ll cost 40% less?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you referring to Randy Johnson?

I dont know that he would do better than Lilly…..Ive advocated signing him for one year b/c it would be low risk, but theres just as much risk he wouldnt last the whole year, whereas Lilly has proved to be consistent and productive, look at what he did in 07 after Cubs losses..

He is, for all intents and purposes, our Milton Bradley, the only guy (and Z) likely to explode and motivate his teammates.

I would agree we do need a young SS, but I think Lilly is too valuable to this team to cast off.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's a huge difference between casting someone off and trading him for value.

Randy Johnson 2008 ERA+ 117
Ted Lilly 2008 ERA+ 109

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 11:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

why dont you explain these esoteric stats

instead of just throwing them out there and expecting us to acquiesce….

“casting off” was just a figure of speech, the point I was trying to make was I wouldnt trade one lefty who has won 32 games, is in his early thirties, for another who’s closer to 50 years old and will be gone in one year.

I would, however, like to add Johnson if Marquis can be moved and take that gamble with Marshall/Gaudin as insurance policies, but Lilly has done nothing to warrant being traded, and while I see your point and others like it, that its not giving up but rather selling high; I dont see that as a good move,particularly not w/ the questionable health of Z and Harden, which makes Lilly all the more valuable.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry about ERA+

It’s basically ERA corrected for park and league effects. If you want to eyeball which pitcher was better in 2008, then you can use this stat instead of comparing their ERAs directly and then wondering, “Was Wrigley more of a hitters’ park than BOB?”

As for the rest of your response – it is precisely the fact that he’d be gone next year which makes me like Johnson better than Lilly. Free payroll!

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough, whats the constant/avg?

+100?

I just think Lilly has been a fantastic buy and I hope they even extend him, but if we can get Marquis off the books now, even a fraction of it and add RJ we’d be great. In your scenario, going into 2010 wed only have Dempster and Zambrano assured to return, which is too much of a gamble to take given Lilly success.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

100 = average

Lilly has been great for us. The question is – what will he be compared to other options.

And we need a SS. If he got us a real SS, he couldn’t do anything better for us.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If we could trade Lilly for Escobar,

not only would we vastly improve at the position, but the money Lilly was getting would go towards signing Johnson and whichever left hitting outfielder Hendry decides on. Also, is Lilly’s contract backloaded?

by dakoose on Dec 16, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

does he have a NTC is the more important question

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We are into the semi-backloaded portions now.

And he has a limited NTC clause. I don’t know that he’d avoid Atlanta, though. That’s a good organization.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Again, "need" is debateable

This division is infinitely winnable with the team as is, and a big part of that is Lilly, theriot can hit and get on base, while he might not be Omar Vizquel at SS, he didnt prevent the team from winning the NL central.

So the tradeoff would be what is worse: losing Lillys performance or keeping Theriot?

I would say losing Lilly would be the worse of the two.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can Theriot hit and get on base?

That’s not a given in my mind. Yes, he hit and got on base last year. However, he did not hit and get on base the year before.

If he’s not getting on base at a high rate, he’s fine. But if he’s a .350 OBP guy, his lack of power and below-average defense makes him a liability and makes SS a need again.

So the question is, which Theriot do we really have?

by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not exactly that.

It’s
Johnson + Escobar + whatever we get in trade for Riot + 3 to 5 M
v.
Lilly + Theriot

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thats assuming...

you can get johnson and escobar for Lilly, which is doubtful

you guys have hinted at it yourself, SS are more valuable.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 1:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Lilly for Escobar is a fair trade.

I think the bigger assumption is that we could get the Unit to sign.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think getting a free agent to sign...

is almost always easier than making a trade.

by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's right

but in terms of the assumptions we can make as fans, I think it’s a bigger assumption that the Unit would actually sign with us than that there’s a fair trade. The reason is that it’s easier for us to look at things from the Braves’ perspective and see what would work for them than to look at it from Randy Johnson’s perspective having no idea what other offers are on the table for him.

But, yeah, assuming Hendry’s talked to Wren and to Johnson (and in reality he may have talked to neither), Hendry’ll probably have a better idea if he could sign the FA than if he could make the trade.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 11:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

are you saying Johnson will out-perform Lilly in '09?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

see? that's all you have to do.

Stake out some turf, make a claim, and file it away. We can come back next year and compare notes over virtual beers. Keep it simple and leave the posturing to the west coast GMs…

Generally speaking and for the record, I think Lilly will have a better year than Johnson.

Next crisis…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The risk in signing Johnson

is all about injury. Johnson will most definitely outpitch Lilly when he is healthy, it’s just that we don’t know how healthy he will be. I would take a flyer on him.

by dakoose on Dec 16, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not convinced

looking over their entire careers, that Lilly is that much less of an injury risk than Johnson.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

He’s made at least thirty stars five of the last six seasons and is only thirty-two. Meanwhile, Johnson has made at least thirty starts four of the last five years, so he might not be as big of a risk as many believe him to be.

by dakoose on Dec 16, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe not, but he's also not 45 years old

And he has been healthy for the Cubs and his success isnt really predicated on power, so he shouldnt suffer the same sort of breakdown as your Priors/Woods/Burnetts etc.

I dont think there is a risk in signing Johnson whatsoever, its a one year deal, he’s gunning for no 300…and if he gets hurt, we’d have Marshall/Gaudin/Samardzija/Guzman who could all potentially fill in

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Whoa whoa whoa

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Still at work over here

(allegedly)

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It is never to early to get high.

Not that I condone that sort of thing.

Now excuse me. I need to run to the store for more Funyuns.

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 16, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boy, he'd be a guy I'd like to see here...

…however for that price and duration, I’m not too sure.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 16, 2008 7:30 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather have Escobar

And the Cubs may be in a position to offer the Braves some pitching for him.

Lilly for Escobar, sign Randy Johnson. Ta-dah!

Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"

by zambranofan on Dec 16, 2008 7:35 AM CST reply actions 2 recs

Maybe if he hit lefty, but....

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 16, 2008 7:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good idea.

Also, there were rumors earlier a little while back that the Braves would deal Kelly Johnson and sign Furcal to play second base. I would look to get Johnson and play him in the outfield. He played left field back in 2005 and put up a very solid 4.1 UZR. There’s no reason he stll can’t play the outfield.

by dakoose on Dec 16, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm, well, it would be tough to give up Lilly...

…and roll the dice on the shambling horror that is Randy Johnson. BUT I would love to see the Cubs upgrade at shortstop. With all due respect to Doubleclutchy McScrappison, this team could use a guy with a real arm and, y’know, range. I’d also point out that, as long as Sean Marshall is still around, they’d have a lefty backup for Johnson’s rotation spot.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gives them some flexibility

With the rest of their offseason decisions. Personally, I think they need a big righthanded bat, but who’s out there in FA that’s worth it, outside of perhaps Pat the Bat. I’d go after Manny if I were them, but that doesn’t seem like a move for Wren.

Now, they can

a) Deal Yunel if they approach the Padres about Peavy again.

b) Use Furcal at 2nd and deal Kelly Johnson for a righthanded LF bat.

c) Use Furcal at 2nd and shift Kelly Johnson back to the OF again.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 7:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Burrell would be a good fit

if you can overlook the occasional bouts of stone-glovenitis.

I think Bobby Cox would be the perfect manager to get the most/best out of Pat the Bat.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Burrell...

makes Dunn look like a gold glove LF.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But....

Burrell brings the coolest nickname in all of sports. Pat the Bat. C’mon that is plenty of reason to get him…..wait.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 16, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But....

Dunn brings a plethora of caveman/donkey jokes along with him, making for more interesting threads.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like donkey-di.....nevermind

n/t

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 16, 2008 11:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey now.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He's an all-star, get his game on.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Go play?

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 16, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have an undying hatred for that song.

It sticks in my head like peanut butter.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I can't think of Smashmouth...

…without thinking of Shrek.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This would seem to signify that Jake Peavy is about to join Atlanta

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 8:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kelly Johnson

if I’m not mistaken he bats lefty. Wonder the Braves would want for him? Putting him at 2nd and shifting DeRo to RF would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying one of the aging and/or brittle LH RFs available in free agency.

by Cubinator on Dec 16, 2008 8:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Kelly Johnson could be headed to St. Louis for somebody like Braden Looper

Cardinals have professed interest in Johnson.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can't imagine the Braves would make that trade...

Johnson has more value than Looper I think.

by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said...

I think acquisition of Rafael Furcal seals the deal that Atlanta is on the cusp of acquiring Jake Peavy from San Diego. Yunel Escobar and prospects headed to the Padres.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 8:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You seem to be saying contradictory things...

if the Braves are moving Escobar (which could very well be the case), why would they also trade Johnson to the Cardinals?

Or are you just trying to come up with ways that the Cubs wouldn’t be able to get a player. I’m not sure what direction you’re going.

For what it’s worth, I don’t see the Cubs getting Johnson. I just don’t see him going to St Louis. Could be wrong though.

by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What we can assume is that Yunel Escobar is on the move and that Atlanta still wants another quality starting pitcher

That seems to add up to Jake Peavy. I can’t think of another high grade starting pitcher who is being dangled on the trade market. Can you?

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Braves

have been linked to Kawakami, Greinke, and Maholm. As for Greinke and Maholm who knows how interested their respective clubs will be in moving them.

Of course, I can’t imagine the Braves stance on giving up their top end guys has softened too much, especially if the reported bad blood between Wren and Towers is legit. It’s all speculation though.

by Cubinator on Dec 16, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Rumors before

were that the Braves preferred to trade Kelly Johnson than Yunel. Not sure I believe those rumors, but it’s possible that Yunel is staying put.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It may happen

but I don’t think it’s going to happen right away … if it does happen. I think Wren has to approach the Padres for the Padres to get back into it (I still can’t believe that the indications are that Jeff Locke was the dealbreaker – yes, I know one report came from Krasovic, but remember Gammons said a few weeks back that the deal broke down over an A ball arm).

If I had to take a stab at what will happen -

Angels end up completing a trade for Peavy. I don’t see them landing Tex.
Braves sign Kawakami, deal Kelly Johnson for a right handed, left field bat

The one darkhorse I would watch would be the Yankees. They want a 3rd starter, but they don’t want to add a high AAV (such as Lowe). Pettite’s been slow responding, so I could see them calling up the Padres and seeing what Peavy would cost (guess would be something like Hughes, McAllister, and a couple more pieces).

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Has Wren changed his stance on NTCs?

As I understood it, that was a major, if not the sticking point.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 9:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Probably not, but now that his #1 target (Burnett) is no longer available...

…that sticking point may be less of an issue.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 9:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, maybe it's just me...

But I’d think that the Braves would turn their attention toward Lowe — who should cost about the same as Peavy — before they compromise their policy.

Beside, not only would Lowe do quite well in Atlanta given their defense, but you could keep the personnel asset for a better trade.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My whole take on the NTC problem

Is that the Braves are being foolish if that’s the big impediment. Reason is this -

The Braves are setting up for 2010 and beyond as much as they are geared towards improving for 2009. That is, in 2010, some of their top chips have moved up a bit more. They’ll have an idea if Hanson is the front of the rotation guy, if guys like Rohrbough are potential starters, if guys like Heyward will be ready by say, 2011, and so forth. Hudson will be back.

Thus … they wouldn’t deal Peavy in 2009, and in all likelihood, not 2010 either. After that, there’s 2 years left on the deal. Not the biggest deal. The Braves have a credibility issue they may be facing soon. It’s the exception when a team can build its core solely from internal options. As good as their system is, the idea that they can build a core solely from the internal options is a nice dream, but it shouldn’t be something to take to the bank. They are close enough this offseason to their recent history. Another year of struggles, and it takes them further away, weakening their ability in the FA market unless a player just wants to be there, and as Peavy has shown, even players who loved the Braves as kids are wary of going into a poor situation.

They need to make a splash now. It could be Lowe, but they don’t want to deal with Boras. Adding someone like Peavy or Lowe sets them up better for 2010 … irrespective of what happens in 2009 in that, a FA next offseason would see a potentially superb rotation that has staying power (Peavy or Lowe, Hudson, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson) and a deep system. I would suggest that they revisit the idea of Ben Sheets as well, as Sheets as a 4th starter gamble for 2010 isn’t bad and wouldn’t be like the situation we went through, as they wouldn’t need to depend on him (Hudson/Vazquez/Jurrjens/Sheets/Hanson).

Now, they could very well get lucky. Maybe Kenshin is more of a front of the rotation guy than most people think. Maybe Oliver Perez settles down. Those are big risks, though.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem is precedent.

John Schuerholz never gave out a NTC — not to Doggie, not to Chipper, not to Smoltzie. Guys who sign with the Braves know that they won’t get one. Why should they make an exception for Peavy?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, technically they wouldn't be "giving" a NTC...

…they’d be ‘inheriting’ one via Peavy’s existing contract.

Nitpicking semantics to sensible folks like you and me, but perhaps it gives Wren enough wiggle room if he really wanted to pull this off. Then again, Wren doesn’t strike me as the type to lean on a loophole like this. If he wants Peavy, he’ll make his case to ownership, NTC be damned. I’d say though at this point, there are enough other options out there that he doesn’t have to make Towers’ day.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 16, 2008 7:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I'd argue

Btw, I’m not suggesting they will.

a) It’s Wren’s team now (unless he gets fired).

but more importantly

b) It’s absolutely critical that they don’t lose, for lack of a better word, credibility. Players still prefer to go to winning teams, and as noted, it’s the exception when a core can be built internally. Maybe they are lucky. As great a system as they have, a lot of those kids aren’t going to pan out. If they don’t make any key acquisitions and go through another poor season. Bobby Cox is also rumored to be done after 2009. What are they looking at into 2010? A rotation with, say, Vazquez, Jurrjens, Hanson, 2nd tier FA pitcher from this year won’t attract FA’s. The rebuilding process will be further extended. Everyone talks about the Rays because of this past year – it did take them a decade. For an organization like the Braves, can they afford an extended period when fan support in the area has never been that strong?

Granted, I understand the precedent aspect, but I think this would be a time for them to change course for the sake of the near future of the franchise. That said, maybe

a) they get lucky and sign a pitcher who has a career year
b) they get lucky and all their kids develop
c) they go after a Lowe or a Sheets, both of whom I think could help with credibility

by toonsterwu on Dec 17, 2008 4:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sort of like you were so sure that

the Dodgers were going to resign Furcal…

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Dec 16, 2008 9:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Looper is a Free Agent

Pretty hard to make that trade….

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Dec 16, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I

Need to read the whole thread before replying!

I like baseball.

by morgane on Dec 16, 2008 10:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Looper

Braden Looper is a free agent.

I like baseball.

by morgane on Dec 16, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they were looking for

someone like ryan ludwick in return, the big bat that they might need. I forget which side it was that backed out of that rumor. The other possibility is if someone offers them a quality starter.

Not sure we have the match for them without a 3rd team.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ha

Unless ATL likes Pie, you’re probably right. A third team necessary to make a trade…hmmm…where have I heard that before…

by Cubinator on Dec 16, 2008 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On a side note, I am disappointed we didn't push for Furcal harder

I thought he would take a lesser AAV this offseason, but it’s looking significantly less than I thought. I mean, the A’s are the high mark at around 10 mil AAV. Couple that with the fact that it’s 4 years, which isn’t all that much, and I am disappointed we didn’t go down this road. Looking at our rough financial situation, let’s assume a backloaded deal with an overall AAV of around 9 mil. Say, we had it at 8 mil this year. If we take Wittenmeyer’s 133 and Sullivan’s 145, we’d have 4 mil left over. With Ibanez’s contract setting up a loose guess at what other OF’s will cost, we could’ve cleared some more salary and added said OF (probably means dealing DeRosa due to overload in MI … which also could’ve filled, say, a pen need). Or … if we somehow got in on a cost-controlled young OF, then we might not have needed to clear more salary. I do think a top of the order guy is as important as that middle of the order lefty, particularly since there weren’t ideal middle of the order lefty fits.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:08 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

I totally agree.

And I’ll go a step farther. This is a failure of Cubs management to evaluate properly what they had on this roster and what they needed.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think 4 years is a lot

For a SS with a lot of miles on him and coming off back surgery, when we have no other SS readily available should Furcal need to be moved to second half way through the deal.

I would certainly agree with you that Jim Hendry is not getting a Check-Plus so far this offseason

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendry is handcuffed by finances

Hence why he was never in the market for Rafael Furcal and is very doubtful to be in the market for somebody like an Adam Dunn given the dollars he can command.

Make no mistake, Hendry is bargain shopping.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

finances

most indications were that we could make one big splash, outside of keeping Dempster. The rumors on the budget support that.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously?

I think that statement is a bit much. He had no issue chasing Ibanez, who everyone knew was going to see at least 8 million annually.

Then, he went very far in talks to acquire Jake Peavy — even with Marquis still on the roster — who has a 13 million annual salary.

Constrained? Yes. But “handcuffed” and “bargain shopping” is a stretch. See San Diego, Arizona, Florida, Pittsburgh, or even Minnesota for real examples of GMs being forced to work handcuffed.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Thank you...

And yes, that was after giving Dempster a 7 million annual bump.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly - well put.

The Cubs have money to spend and they are choosing to spend it in the wrong place.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Are they?

They haven’t spent anything yet, except for re-signing Dempster.

So there haven’t been any “wrong places”. Yet.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough.

Although, I will point out that we are connected to Bradley and Ibanez and Furcal was the only lefty-speedy SS we could realistically hope to get. Sure, I like Maicer Izturis and we could imagine that Kelly Johnson could play SS again, but Furcal cost nothing but money to get.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Explain please...

Jim Hendry shaved payroll in removing Kerry Wood and inserting Kevin Gregg. Beyond that he achieved his number one offseason priority of re-signing Ryan Dempster. Joey Gathright is low risk bargain shopping.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We're hearing #s like the payroll will be up in the 140s.

That’s $$$ to spend.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We may be hearing that, but we aren't seeing that

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

play the numbers game for a second

Look, I disagreed with letting Wood go, but let’s play the numbers game.

Current estimates have us at a 140-145 mil payroll. As our roster currently stands, we are already at 133-138 million. If you account for the 6 million or so difference b/w Gregg and Wood’s 2009 AAV, that gets us to 139-144, which means that unless they expanded payroll or traded for a cost-controlled youngster, our ability to add an OF bat would be severely restricted, to say the least.

Okay … so the “let’s move some cash off” method. The only two realistic options to cut costs all offseason have been Marquis and DeRosa. We’ve all assumed that we could cut Marquis without eating a ton of the remaining money, but that might not be the case. We already saw the difficulty that Hendry supposedly had in shaving Marquis. As for DeRosa, I don’t think they want to cut DeRosa, as they value his versatility, but would be willing to consider it for the right piece.

I’m not saying I agree with the move to let Wood go, but there’s certainly some rationale behind it if you simply look at the numbers.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 10:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Point being Hendry is hamstrung

I agree with the move to let Kerry Wood walk.

But trading away Mark DeRosa would be dumb and I doubt seriously it is a consideration even on Hendry’s plate. DeRosa has been a virtual team MVP in 2007 and 2008. Plus he is a class professional who is playing under a reasonable contract.

Jason Marquis is immovable unless Hendry is prepared to gulp a lot of salary. So under that circumstance I am fine with keeping Marquis. Fact is he takes the ball every 5th day and gives this team innings. Removing him from the equation creates another hole to fill that we can ill afford to be spending more dough on.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 10:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

um ... you just

basically contradicted your original argument – that we don’t have the room for a big bat and will need to bargain shop. my numbers argument was to point out that letting wood go was to create the financial room to add said big bat in the lineup, which is counter to your original point

Hence why he was never in the market for Rafael Furcal and is very doubtful to be in the market for somebody like an Adam Dunn given the dollars he can command.

Make no mistake, Hendry is bargain shopping.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

screwed up the quotes, but

that was your original post from above.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gathright has zero upside.

I don’t get the signing. Pie is the better player and has upside.

by dakoose on Dec 16, 2008 12:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

AAA depth is my guess

unless he surprises us. Colvin’s gone, Kroeger likely will be gone. Hoffpauir will likely be with us. That leaves guys like Brad Snyder, Sam Fuld, Doug Deeds, Andres Torres, Felix Pie, Jake Fox (and a couple names I’m forgetting).

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

With the cash coming off the books

in upcoming years, we could certainly go shopping again. The other hope would be that we can develop someone. I think, if healthy, Furcal can stick at least 2-3 more years at short.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Jim's trying to avoid another Soriano

Instead of spending a ton of money on what’s available this year, he could be saving money to go after a better crop next year.

by dr stabbingworth on Dec 16, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

side note

Part of me wonder how much time and effort was placed into Peavy and what sort of impact that had.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 9:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Update from MLB.com.

According to this article, the Braves will retain Johnson (as a left fielder) and Escobar while playing Furcal at second base.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Actually...

word out of Atlanta is that this is merely one of the rare ‘sign-and-trades’ where Furcal will be shipped to the Cubs for Ted Lilly and Ryant Theriot.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes!

The Era of Scrap is over!

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You would think...

But you’d be wrong. Because word out of Chicago is that Lou just found out about the deal and was pissed. So we shipped Furcal back to Atlanta in an even more rare (rarer?) move along with Vitters for Lilly and Theriot. So, uh, we solved that problem.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Can we get Jeff Blauser back?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Blauser retired....duh

But they are shopping Mark Lemke, so we could go that route.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Furthermore...

I heard we have the rights to some middle schooler overseas named Marmol. I think if we packaged him with Glenallen Hill we could land their CF stud Jones something or other and sign him to an 18 year deal.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha, I went to a Mall when I was a kid to get Lemkes autograph

there was a huge, Im talking, huge line to get it…..he was a pretty big part of those early Braves teams.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Surprising that Rafael Furcal is willing to move to 2nd base

I guess he really likes playing for Bobby Cox and the Braves. So that gives them something like this…

LF – Kelly Johnson
CF – Mark Kotsay — until one of the kids is ready
RF – Jeff Francouer — who I still like
3rd – Chipper Jones
SS – Yunel Escobar
2nd – Rafael Furcal
1st – Casey Kotchman — unrealized potential so far
Cat – Brian McCann

That’s pretty darn good.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Um, Mark Kotsay isn't on the Braves anymore.

He got traded to Boston last year. He’s a FA now.

So maybe the Braves would be intrigued by one Felix Pie.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot about Kotsay leaving in August.

If Atlanta wants Felix Pie then I’m sure it won’t be difficult to engineer a trade with Hendry. Perhaps we can get a mid-tier prospect in return.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That, or make him part of a bigger deal

See if Escobar or Johnson are expendable.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Furcals fantasy value should go up at least

2nd is pretty shallow, but Im surprised he’d be okay with that move.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I still like ours better

But I dont think thats even enough to keep up with Philly and the Mets

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a team that leads the league in singles.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, in that case...

…maybe we could switch Escobar with Theriot and they wouldn’t even notice.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sneaky Scrappy Stealer!

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Furcal was originally a 2B.

He only moved to SS because they had an opening there and needed a leadoff hitter. In 2002, Bobby moved him back to 2B and inserted DeRo at SS. DeRo promptly got hurt, and Bobby moved Furcal back to SS.

It made sense for Furcal to stay at SS to get more money in FA; now that he is getting his last big payday (as a SS) it doesn’t matter whether he moves back or not.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Braves could use a CF

unless they’re sold on Josh Anderson, or think one of their prospects will be in the majors this season, Hendry could see what Pie’s worth to the Braves is? I don’t think he’d bring back Kelly Johnson, but he could be part of a package heading to Atlanta.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Schafer is close to ready

I don’t think they are in the market for a CF. They like Schafer, and they have some stopgap options with Blanco/Anderson.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I was wondering

I didn’t know Schafer’s timeline. I don’t think Blanco/Anderson would be a long-term solution there. So, I think Pie could be useful in Atlanta (if Franceour got moved it would help, too) as part of a larger trade.

Especially if Gathright sticks with the Cubs and Pie is out of options.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they were quite happy with blanco last year

it’s hard to buy that pie would be more valuable to them than blanco would. they need power, which neither one provides. blanco at least showed an ability to get on base last year.

short of it is, i’m not sure they’d have much interest in pie. he doesn’t really do anything for them. it’s hard to say if pie would be better than either blanco or anderson in 2009, and they have two internal long term CF solutions that could both be ready in 2009 (Schafer at the start, Gorkys perhaps midseason).

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough.

I would value Pie higher than Blanco, but with them projecting Schafer and/or Gorkys to be ready at some point this season, another young OF doesn’t necessarily meet their needs, obviously.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They need RHed power

I could see them getting in on Mike Cameron.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 16, 2008 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The guy that would probably interest the Braves is Rich Harden.

The Braves need one more SP, and they wouldn’t have to commit beyond 2009 if Harden winds up on the DL again.

The Braves are also very left-handed; they need a RHB LF. I doubt if they would be interested in Sori so, unless they like DeRo as a RHB, we don’t really match up that well. It would be one reason for them to trade KJ, however.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs

Just because they say they aren't moving anyone

doesn’t mean they won’t. Folks, while I don’t think much of Wren, he would lose any leverage if he came out right now and indicated they had more plans. Now, I think it’s a very viable idea that they may keep Johnson/Furcal/Escobar, but they may also end up shopping someone. For example, if they gun after Greinke, it may cost them Escobar (as noted above, I think Greinke may cost them something like Escobar/Schafer or Hernandez/Rohrbough or Locke/and maybe one more). Short of it is … nothing’s in stone for them.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 12:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

An Atlanta - Kansas City trade makes sense

And it might happen. Royals are starved for a real solution at shortstop as part of their ongoing rebuilding campaign. Yunel Escobar for Zach Greinke helps both teams address critical need. Plus Dayton Moore came from Atlanta.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

royals

could look 2nd as well. they seem okay with the idea of aviles at short. i’m not sold on aviles bat yet, so he might play better at short.

on a side note, i think it’ll take a lot more than escobar to land greinke.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They've had steady procession of no-hit shortstops...

Angel Berroa, Tony Pena Jr., Aviles. The fact that Kansas City was interested in Rafael Furcal indicates that they would like to definitely solve their revolving door problem at shortstop. Yunel Escobar would be good fit around a young core of Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, David DeJesus and the young pitchers they have.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

odd that you call aviles a no-hit shortstop

coming off of a .325/.354/.480 line. I don’t think he’s that good by any means, but he should be able to be at least an average offensive shortstop, if not a slight tick above.

They pursued Furcal because he was the best middle infielder on the market. There’s still been indications that they are fine with Aviles at short if they can add a 2nd baseman.

Not saying they won’t look Escobar, as I obviously think they would ask for him in a Greinke deal, just saying that every indication is that they are open to Aviles at short if that’s the best move for them.

by toonsterwu on Dec 16, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I definitely like

seeing what the Braves might want for Johnson….he could fit nicely in RF for us and be a cheaper option there as well.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 16, 2008 1:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

He'd fit nicer at SS...

setting up a Theriot/Fontenot platoon at 2B and DeRosa in RF. Then, we still have an opening at a prime offensive position (RF) when DeRosa comes off the books.

That said, I don’t see us getting Johnson.

by SouthernCub on Dec 16, 2008 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Mark Texiera shoe needs to drop before there is movement of outfielders...

Interesting that Mike Scioscia was signing the praises of Manny Ramirez on a Los Angeles radio show yesterday. Sounds as though the Angels have determined that Mark Texiera is headed to Boston or his hometown Baltimore.

I think once the Texiera thing is sorted out then we will see Adam Dunn, Bobby Abreu, Milton Bradley and Manny secure new homes pretty quickly. With implication for the Cubs.

My guess..

Texiera — Red Sox
Manny — Angels (eventually)
Bradley — Rays
Dunn — Nationals

Mark Teahan anybody?

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 1:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Manny to the Yankees

..

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 16, 2008 1:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Braves credibility issue

is coming to a head. Looks like there’s a chance that Furcal is using the Braves to play against the Dodgers.

I stand by what I’ve said – the Braves need to make a move this offseason for next offseason. 2009 isn’t all that important in the grand spectrum of things for them – they need to be building towards the future, and that means making a move now.

Honestly, the issue seems to be Furcal and shortstop. Personally, if I was them, I’d suck it up with Kelly Johnson’s glove at 2nd, and offer the Padres the package that the Braves supposedly balked on (Yunel Escobar/Jeff Locke/Gorkys Hernandez/Charlie Morton), accept the NTC (for the reasons I noted above), and tell Furcal to give them a day to see if things can be worked out. At that point, Peavy will have to make a decision, but if they can do a Peavy/Furcal combo, that greatly improves their chances for 2010.

by toonsterwu on Dec 17, 2008 1:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Furcal

Looks like Rafael Furcal is using the Atlanta Braves to broker the best possible deal with the Dodgers. I’ll assume he knows Ned Colletti is an idiot and that this ploy of his should net another year on a contract and/or more dollars.

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 1:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

actually

the indications are that the Dodgers simply had to match Atlanta’s deal.

As for the Colletti thing, I would note two things.

a) There have been reports that McCourt ordered some of the big name signings

b) What’s he done that was a really poor idea? The original premise, signing veterans to stopgap contracts while letting the kids develop, made a lot of sense considering the mess Malone left. Overall, there’s been one bad contract (Pierre), and some bleh ones. That said, 2 years for Jones – not bad. 3 years for Schmidt? Again, it’s not bad. Bringing back Garicaparra on a 2 year deal when they didn’t have other options? Not bad. Not good either, and I’m not saying Colletti is a good GM, but he’s not as bad as people make him out to be. For all the negative press he gets from fans … he hasn’t traded away any of their top prospects.

by toonsterwu on Dec 17, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd argue that the ALL of those deals were bad deals...

Yes, Colletti had money to spend. But he spent poorly. The Dodgers had Kemp and Ethier in the OF, and thus didn’t need to sign Jones and Pierre. Jones, coming off a TERRIBLE year and looking like a declining player, simply wasn’t worth that money. It was clear within a few weeks that he’d spent nearly $30 million on guys whom he couldn’t use. Getting Manny only further magnified those errors. Schmidt was arguably worth the gamble, but expensive gambles that don’t pay off count as bad ideas.

Garciaparra was arguably a bad idea too. The team had Loney, LaRoche, and DeWitt. Two of those guys aren’t great, but what’s the point in paying Garciaparra to be mediocre when you could use those other guys just as well (and for less)? And again, he went and picked up another guy to play over Garciaparra (Blake).

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Colletti has been real bad for the Dodgers

Colletti fell into a great situation. But the guy in my opinion is an unmitgated disaster on virtually all levels.

Farm system? His predecessors Paul DePodesta and Dan Evans presided over the development of the Dodger farm system into one of the elite programs in the game. Under Colletti that farm system has been allowed to wither. The exciting young talent on the Dodgers today (Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, Chad Billingsley, Clayton Kershaw, etc.) is remnant of the DePodesta and Evans regimes.

Trades? Simply put he hasn’t been able to pull off many positive trades, or trades period. Other than the much ballyhooed addition of Manny Ramirez and Casey Blake midseason of last year. And in each of those cases he gave up a lot.

Free agents? As awful as it gets. 3 years and $44 million on Jason Schmidt, a pitcher who has made 6 appearances in two years? 1 year and $7 million on a rehabbing Randy Wolf in 2007? Reupping a useless Nomar Garciaparra? 5 years and $45 million for Juan Pierre (the worst signing in baseball)? 2 years and $37 million for a washed up, fat and disinterested Andruw Jones?

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 3:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Totally agree

although I’ll say that the Schmidt signing seemed like a good idea at the time…

That’s one area where Jim Hendry has done well – Lilly and Marquis have both been consistent in health and Hendry was smart enough to cut bait on Matt Clement at just the right time. The real struggles we have had with health in the rotation have all been guys coming up from the farm system.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 3:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the dodgers farm system

is still pretty dang good. The fact that they graduated a bunch of talent and can still have a top 10-12 system that has major upside in the lower levels is really a positive, considering the cycles most systems go through. They’ve got some high upside arms (Elbert, MacDonald, Martin), a potentially legit shortstop (DeJesus), and a lot of potential impact bats. Now, the credit here should go to Logan White, but to say their system is weak isn’t right. It’s a top 10-12 system with major upside in the lower levels.

Now, I will say the Blake trade was bad, but I completely forgot about that one. Giving up Santana was a horrid idea. That said, how is the Manny trade bad? I don’t see it. They gave up Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris for him. How is that bad?

As for the contracts, keep in mind that Colletti didn’t have the say on some of those contracts. But I’m hardpressed to buy that

a) A 3 year deal on Schmidt for 44 mil was an awful idea. Every pitcher comes with risks. You hope to sign them to a lesser deal to lessen said risk (the Gillick rule). 3 years is not that long. Yes, Schmidt had started to decline in 05/06, but he was still coming off a solid campaign. It was an acceptable risk. Look at say, the deal that AJ Burnett got. That’s a bad deal. Calling a 3 year/44 million dollar deal awful, I don’t buy it, not when Gil Meche nabbed 5 years that offseason. It looks bad in hindsight, but any contract or deal has to be judged both on foresight and hindsight, and in this case, Schdmit was an acceptable risk, IMO, at that point in time.

b) Randy Wolf – Teams give short term deals to rehabbing pitchers all the time. 1 year, 7 mil? That’s not awful in any way shape or form. They got 102 solid innings and moved on (3.99 FIP that year).

c) Nomar/Andruw Jones – Moves need to be judged within the context of the organization. I don’t see how signing these guys to short term deals were a bad idea. Look at what their other options were – at the time Garicaparra signed, who else did they have for 3rd base? Now, people will say LaRoche, but LaRoche had just gotten his first 202 AB’s in AAA. Nomar came off a .872 OPS season in 469 AB’s. A short term, 2 year deal to buy their kids some time made sense then. As for Andruw, why not? Why not take a gamble when their other option was Juan Pierre in CF? It failed miserably, but it’s only 2 years.

Again, I don’t see a lot of awful deals. I see some acceptable risks, some poor decisions that were somewhat understandable (Andruw Jones deal), albeit not excusable. As for Pierre, I don’t disagree on that. That’s the one move in Colletti’s tenure that I thought was absolutely awful.

This isn’t to say Ned Colletti is a good GM. But he was forced to make some deals, and overall, I don’t see the horrid track record that you are claiming. GM’s have to take some risks sometimes. You want to fault him for a weak system (which isn’t true anyways), but he also hasn’t dealt top players away. He’s not a top GM, but I don’t see this awful GM that you are suggesting. Everything needs to be looked at from all POV’s when making judgment, and I don’t see this awful GM in the examples that you’ve offered.

by toonsterwu on Dec 17, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree -- Ned Colletti is about as awful as it gets

Jason Schmidt was a brutal signing. His velocity was down in 2006 while with the Giants and there was plenty of buzz (and forewarning) that his arm was not right. Schmidt also made it clear he was only interested in playing on the West Coast. Colletti bid against himself to ink Schmidt to a 3 year $44 million deal. 6 appearances in two years about says it all. And there are no guarantees that Schmidt is going to be ready to pitch effectively to start the 2009 season.

Andruw Jones was likewise a brutal signing. His last two years in Atlanta he sat on top of the plate and jerked the ball to compensate for his lost bat speed and erosion of skills otherwise. 2 years and $37 million was another deal where Colletti was bidding against himself. Scott Boras had him for lunch.

The Juan Pierre deal will go down as one of the most idiotic signings of all time. And once again, Colletti was more or less bidding against himself.

The Dodger farm system is in decline. Since Colletti took over in 2006 the Dodgers have drafted poorly. The good young players on the Dodgers today are the product of the Paul DePodesta and Dan Evans regimes.

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Completely agree...

Jones and Pierre made no sense. They had Kemp and Ethier already. Instead of going with those guys, they pay $30 million for two guys who were showing huge signs of decline.

Schmidt is the least terrible of Colletti’s big signings, but still a bad one. There were red flags abound with Schmidt as you mention. The price paid didn’t match the risk.

The proof is in the pudding. None of the results should be shocking with those three, and yet Colletti committed over $120 million over 9 years for that garbage.

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Colletti is a lifetime administrator who somehow landed a GM gig with the Dodger organization of all places

His hire will go down as one of the great head scratchers of all time.

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That might be overstating it...

I mean, do people REALLY care about GMs? And if the Dodgers happen to stumble into a championship under his reign, it’ll be hard to argue that. Even though I agree he’s a terrible GM.

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see how anyone could call the Manny trade bad either.

He basically propelled them to a division championship and, damnit, an NLDS series win. I’m not saying Colletti is a genius by any means, but the ’08 Dodgers were a lot like the ’07 Cubs in their ability to overcome early season mediocrity and earn a ticket to the postseason. Picking up Manny and Blake were a big part of that.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Picking up Manny was a big part of that...

Picking up Blake was largely irrelevant. In fact, I’d say getting him was a bad move on Colletti’s part. But yes, getting Manny was a good move for the Dodgers and worked out really well for them.

by SouthernCub on Dec 18, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, Looks like it's close to done ... again

but considering the ups and downs of Furcal’s situation this offseason, who knows.

That said, KR says Furcal will go back to LA.

by toonsterwu on Dec 17, 2008 4:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

And the Dodgers win

According to Rosenthal Furcal has told Braves he is choosing Dodgers. Now Braves know how we felt in 04

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2008 5:16 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Good

I didn’t want Rafael Furcal on the Cubs. I’m leery of signing a shortstop to a 4 year deal who is fresh off major back problem and whose offensive game as a leadoff hitter isn’t as good as it is cracked up to be.

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Couldn't agree more...

especially when you add that that player is now in his 30s and his entire game is based on speed. Speed and defense are the things most at risk when the back goes, especially at SS.

And as far as Furcal’s leadoff skills are concerned, I struggle to see the big edge for Furcal over Soriano. That’s not to say Soriano is a great fit at leadoff. It’s just that Furcal gives you the same feast-or-famine streakiness, minus the power but with maybe 5-10 more OBP points.

Furcal is not the answer for us.

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2008 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he clearly wasn't going to come to the Cubs

- he wanted to stay in LA, this deal shows.

I take back what I say about this being a failure of Cub management. It still could be, but it’s also possible that the Cubs sensed early on that Furcal wanted to go to an organization he was comfortable with.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 11:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or, that he's a self-serving jerk, one or the other.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2008 8:24 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs

One other possibility

Sleazy agent.

"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano

by JohnM on Dec 18, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Or both

I mean, he pulled similar shenanigans with the Cubs in 2005. If it was just a sleazy agent, he might have fired the guy by now. I think it might be a perfect match of sleaziness.

by SouthernCub on Dec 18, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs

Rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yup, mutual sleaze.

I’ll sec that rec.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently it is a THREE year deal for 33 million

Either he thinks we will make even MORE money in 3 years or he really wanted to stay in LA all along.

"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry

by Doggie Stalker on Dec 17, 2008 6:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Boy

…did the Braves get screwed by Furcal’s agent.

by leothelip on Dec 17, 2008 7:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Furcal doesn't have the best history in negotiations...

He pulled shenanigans with the Cubs three years ago, signing an overnight deal with the Dodgers without even giving the Cubs a chance to match. It seems pretty clear he’s just taking advantage of other teams to sweeten his deal with the Dodgers. In 2005 it was the Cubs. In 2008 it is the Braves. I guess it’s fine, but it’s not exactly good-faith negotiating.

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not just the Braves

It sounded like he used the A’s to get as much as he could of their interest, too.

"Who's Bob Brenly? The guy that used to be the manager for Arizona?" ~ Alfonso Guilleard Soriano

by JohnM on Dec 18, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The A's I'm fine with...

There’s nothing wrong with negotiating with multiple teams to get leverage. It’s the bad faith negotiating like he did with the Braves, getting a gentleman’s agreement and then backing out the next day when a better deal comes along.

by SouthernCub on Dec 18, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Which is precisely what he did to Hendry three years ago.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

by SouthernCub on Dec 18, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And these are the things we don't usually get to see in negotiations like these

reasons why a team might not be pursuing a player that seems to be a perfect fit.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 18, 2008 12:53 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs

Rec'd

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Braves will get the last laugh on this one

I’m not a big fan of Rafael Furcal. He could go south in a hurry given his back issue and the fact that he is a streaky hitter with an overrated offensive game to begin with. I’d rather have Yunel Escobar and Kelly Johnson over Furcal. Braves can find an outfielder and keep Johnson at 2nd.

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're partially right about Furcal's weaknesses

but it says something when smart organizations like the A’s and Braves are in on him. SS is extremely shallow right now, with many teams playing 2Bs out of position or SSs who wish they could hit like Jason Marquis. When that’s the case, you take the injury risk.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 17, 2008 11:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs