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Why can/can't Soriano play Right Field?

An admission: I played no college baseball.  I'm an armchair fan, nothing more.  But, I'm always up for learning more about the game.

Star-divide

That said, I'm wondering: Why can't Soriano play right field?  It seems to me that most of the left-handed rightfielder options being tossed out there would be better suited in left field (or DH, but I digress).

I know that right field in Wrigley comes with its challenges.  Interesting walls.  Sun. 

But, Soriano has a great arm.  His throw does tail a bit--is that a problem in right?

So sound off: why can Soriano play right field?  Why can't he?

Poll
Can Soriano play right field?
Yes, as well or better than he plays left
34 votes
Eh. Kinda.
59 votes
No, it would be a disaster
78 votes

171 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 191 comments

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The argument

As you started to say, is that right field at Wrigley is the hardest outfield position to play in all of baseball. It’s a combination of the walls, sun, and wind.

We all know Sori has had his own share of adventures in LF, so putting him in RF would only compound the situation.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 16, 2008 10:31 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I doubt Soriano's defense would suffer much in any switch from left to right.

He would be a poor defensive OF in either corner. His arm is definitely suited to right and his fear of the bricks and hop on the catch could cause fan nausea at any position on the field.

I’m assuming the preference in keeping him in right stems from how a position change appeared to hurt his batting. Fonz is a streaky hitter and the CF experiment seemed to hurt him at the plate and the switch to a familiar LF improved his offense.

by N Oakley on Dec 16, 2008 10:32 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, one could make a fairly reasonable argument...

…for putting Soriano in right field. For starters, it would make acquiring Adam Dunn all the more attractive as you could minimize his defensive shortcomings by playing him in left field. What’s more, Soriano has a strong arm and used to be a second baseman, so he should know his way around that side of the baseball field.

Unfortunately, baseball isn’t always logical. I’ve long believed that we’ll never see Alfonso in any position other than left field with the Chicago Cubs. My guess is Cubs management wouldn’t want to risk distracting Soriano at the plate, where he’s already markedly streaky (as are all hitters, but still…), by asking him to learn a new position.

In short, it’s a great idea – again, especially if Adam Dunn is in the picture. But I would be pretty shocked if it was actually on the table.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 10:47 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Well said.

Assuming we acquire a defensively challenged LF, it would make perfect sense to shift Soriano. But we did just sign an older Pie, don’t seem interested in upgrading our biggest weakness, and see our playoff savior in the light of a LH power bat. The hell with logic.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I could potentially see a shift to 1B

He does have some infield skills and many a slugger has settled in there at the end of their careers.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Dec 16, 2008 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Possible.

I think his career may end as a part-time outfielder/DH though.

I honestly do not know what to make of Alfo’s mental makeup. Is he really as sensitive to change as some people say, or is it overblown? Does his position and batting slot really affect his play?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is something I hoped would come up.

Is moving from left to right really that mentally shattering? Or, just coincidence that his numbers dropped after a position/lineup change?

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea.

The only thing I know for a fact is that he was originally opposed to the switch from 2B to the outfield. I have never heard a quotation from him about lineup order though.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dont forget he was willing and played

a month or so in center his first year with cubs

by JPetey on Dec 16, 2008 11:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And he sucked there...

… which is why he was moved to left.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2008 4:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Give that some context though...

He was against moving from 2B to LF because he was in the final year of his contract and was worried that it would hurt his value. On a team that was going nowhere, that’s at least understandable.

Since that situation, he’s never complained (to my knowledge) about moving to another position. He was very willing (though not very successful in brief time) to make the move to CF when the Cubs signed him.

The move to CF from LF is more challenging than the move from LF to RF. I think given time, Soriano would be as capable in RF as he is in LF (for whatever that’s worth). Sure, like anyone, he’d have trouble with the sun in Wrigley. That’s not exclusive to Soriano though, and he’d get used to it.

But, it’s kind of irrelevant. I don’t think Piniella is going to try him in RF.

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, so we'd be lookin' at...what...15 to 20 hops a game?

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:12 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

haha good one

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 16, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

"Truth does not do as much good in the world as the semblance of truth does evil," - Duc de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims, 64.

by Emelie on Dec 16, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And no one would ever be out....

Flash forward to Soriano’s first game at 1b

Pat – “Ground ball to Theriot… he’s up with it and over to Soriano at first… he hops off the bag as he catches the ball and Khalil Greene is safe. That is the seventh error of the game for Soriano, all at 1b. Still nobody out here in the first.”

Ron -“Oh man, oh no. What is he doing, Patrick?”

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Dec 16, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

GEEZ! WHY IS HE HOPPING LIKE THAT, PATRICK?!

I don’t know, Ron. I don’t know.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And here's a letter from Betty in Iowa...

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. - Dave Barry

by zm1217 on Dec 16, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A life long Cubs fan

And she wishes you a happy birthday Patrick. I didn’t know your birthday was today?

It’s not Ron. Go back to sleep. I’ll tell you when the game is over or when there’s a home run and you can tell everyone about your walkathon and Walgreens

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Dec 17, 2008 12:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not put him back in CF?

The angles are way easier, his arm would still be valuable there, it would open up options for LF, and you could platoon Kosuke/Reed in RF. And you could use any one of Pie/Gathright/Johnson as defensive subs. Or you could shift Fukudome/Johnson etc over to CF in late innings and put DeRosa/Hoffpauir etc in RF.

To me, this would make more sense as CF is the easiest OF Position to play in terms of ball angles and trajectories….they tried it briefly last year, so why not give it a real shot?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 11:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Because he's not very good there...

Soriano tends to get extremely bad reads — often late — which he tends to make up for with athleticism. Fine for left field, where minimum range is required, but alot more noticeable in center.

Further, I’m concerned about his lower body conditioning just enough to not want him chasing too many balls into the deep gaps in Chicago’s “springtime”.

Lastly, I suspect that if the Cubs do go ahead and acquire a right field bat, it’s going to be someone a bit more slow and lumbering. If that’s the case, I’d especially want a polished center fielder to help cover that ground.

And it’s actually a bit tougher to pick up the ball off the bat in center than you think, especially at dusk.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

What’s more, Lou already tried this experiment and it failed. And I don’t see Lou as a guy who likes to experiment much to begin with, so he’d more than likely not try it again.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree...

…and would say Lou has no problem shaking things up and trying something new, he just doesn’t go at it numerous times if it doesn’t work.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, shaking things up is a relative term.

He may make minor tweaks here and there, but he’s not exactly liberal in his approach.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

…giving key roles to guys like Theriot, Fontenot and Marmol when they were all unproven is something a lot of managers would not have done, especially Baker. Nuking veterans like Barrett and Izturis (who were both established) were also additions by subtraction that Baker and others wouldn’t have been bold enouph to follow through on.

Sometimes Piniella misfires, but for the most part, he is on target with his evaluations and where he needs to take a different route.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 17, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree a bit here...

All three of those guys only got a shot out of absolute necessity. Piniella gave everyone and his brother a shot before going with Theriot at SS. It took the absolute failure of Cedeno and Izturis to get Theriot a chance. Fontenot got called up when Izturis went out and was fortunate to hit right out of the gates in spot duty. Had he gone ofer for a few days at first, we likely never hear from him again.

Marmol is one that I completely disagree with you on. The middle of the bullpen is EXACTLY where managers stick unproven guys. That’s where Marmol got his start with Piniella. He just was so good that he built his role.

I don’t think those are great examples of Piniella making great evaluations. I’m not saying Piniella is bad at evaluating players by any means. But those are pretty bland evidence in my opinion, as I think most any manager worth anything would have made those moves.

by SouthernCub on Dec 17, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he can do it, but I suppose if it impacts his batting then it might not be worth it

But he’s becoming less and less of a threat on the bases, so I wouldnt worry about what impact playing CF would have on that aspect of his game.

it is easier to pick up the ball in CF, b/c its coming right at you, now if your point was that he has trouble chasing balls over his head, then yeah youre probably right.

But it was just another thought….i would imagine he’d do less damage in CF than RF

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There's no such thing...

as a ball coming right at you. It’s always tailing toward either side of the field, and the direction and velocity is often hard to pick up on for the first second. Start adding in things like high sun, the grey of dusk, or high lights, and you start finding out quickly that center field is not for everyone.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 12:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right, but it doesnt tails as much as it does in the corners

furthermore, the batter is in plain sight, making it easier to pick up the ball right off the bat…and balls can come right at you, it all depends on where youre positioned.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, with the exception

that some defensively challenged outfielders DON’T pick the ball up off the bat, thus creating the difference between a very good defensive outfielder, and an average outfielder. I have a feeling that Sori can’t seem to do that, and makes up for most mistakes in left due to his athleticism.

by chrisw95 on Dec 16, 2008 12:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Man, if we only had the DH in the NL

imagine how much easier this would be to fix.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt go that far...

it hasnt hurt AL attendance any…..the question might be, with pitchers becoming more and more valuable, how long until there is a real call for the universal DH?

The NL was pretty close to joining the AL in the initial experiment anyway.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly wouldnt care

My point was pitchers are making more and more money and how long before owners want their investments protected from hitting/baserunning?

Look at how pissed the Yankees were last year when Wang got hurt in Houston, or Mark Priors collision with Giles.

So I wouldnt be shocked at all if it happens sometime in the not too distant future?

Isnt the NL and one of the Japanese leagues the only ones in the world which still have no DH? Thought I heard that somewhere.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I prefer ballplayers and

believe being able to hit the ball should be a plus at all positions.

As for protecting the pitcher, hitting/baserunning is nowhere near as dangerous as being on the mound. Comebackers, splintered bats and p/o’d meat head DH’s are much more dangerous than a short sprint.

In the end, I find AL ball boring and like that everyone on an NL club better have their head in the game as they may be up next.

by N Oakley on Dec 16, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont know...

I think its more likely a pitcher would get hurt swinging or sliding/running than from a comebacker.

Im just saying, be prepared b/c it might happen someday

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Prior returned later in 2003 after the GIles collision and tore it up.

He was never the same after taking that Hawpe liner off his elbow.

It is WAY more dangerous to stand helmet-less on the mound than running the bases

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Dec 16, 2008 8:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But less likely to incur injury

trust me, I took one off the temple once while pitching, then got hit in the huevos playing first the same season…ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 9:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

More cuts and bruises for sure

But not season-altering injuries like the Yanks were bitching when Wang went down

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Dec 16, 2008 10:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If they ever establish a universal DH...

…I’ll throw my universal remote at the TV.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 1:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

baseball

is a game with nine players.

Not ten.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Its not though

look around, the majority of leagues use DHs, games evolve, football use to not have the forward pass….things change, some better some worse.

Ive completely forgotten what the initial point of this thread was..ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care.

Baseball is a game with NINE players.

Not ten. Those other leagues are doing it wrong, including the AL.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 1:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thats a sound, rational argument

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's baseball

Grown men are paid hundreds of millions of dollars to play a game. There’s nothing sound or rational about it.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 3:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well this is going nowhere fast

theyre in the entertainment industry, they all get paid very well, but that isnt related to what we were discussing

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 3:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying that the rules

aren’t made based on rationality. I don’t care if the DH brings in more money for the owners. It’s not the way the game is supposed to be played.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 4:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Making more money is rational

when youre running a business, which sports are….its also better for the product, in some opinions, b/c not everyone appreciates the subtleties of the game, so having a DH increases offense….it also is rational from a baseball sense, in that it protects the most valuable commodity, pitchers, from unnecessary injury and/or undo harm

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

also rational from the Players prospective

as it keeps more players employed for more years, when they might other wise not be employed

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care about either of those things.

It’s not the way the game is supposed to be played.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Abner? Is that you?

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Dec 17, 2008 11:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and put those pitchers mounds

back the way they were, dagnabbit!

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 11:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whats this with teams west o' the Mississip?

No wonder they stopped traveling by sleeper car

For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.

by Less is Walrond on Dec 17, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Ike

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 17, 2008 4:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How Come We Never Consider Returning Him To 2B?

Couldn’t this help solve the LF/RF dilemma? I know this affects Dero and Fonty, but isn’t it worth considering?

by Les Lancaster's Mullet on Dec 16, 2008 11:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sign Dunn and Bonds.

Move Alfo to 2B.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Much prefer to Sign

Dunn, Bradley and move Fonz to CF. That way any ball hit to the OF will fall in, bounce off a glove, etc. With that OF in place, a minimum of 5 inside the park HR’s will occur in 2009.

by N Oakley on Dec 16, 2008 11:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We could make a drinking game out of all the outfield errors/misplays.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dunn & Bonds in the of with Sori @ 2b

Our talented starters would throw an average of 100 pitches through three innings with that mess behind them, be spent by the all star game, and retire in disgust.

by leothelip on Dec 16, 2008 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

+1 & rec'd!

Soriano is a horrible 2B. Moving him back there three years after he played there regularly last, would be a spectacular mistake.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 16, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, it's not.

My understanding is that he was an awful second baseman. Not gonna happen.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he was moved from 2b

for a reason.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I know

He’s brutal at 2B, but he’s brutal in the field everywhere. Sign Dunn or Pat the Bat ( I know I know he’s not left handed) and put one of them in Left. Platoon Fuke and someone in Right and let Reed roam CF on a regular basis. I’m a big fan of Reed and seriously think that some of us undervalue him including the manager seeing as how he didn’t play a 1/3 of an inning in the playoffs.

by Les Lancaster's Mullet on Dec 16, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Never gonna happen.

And playing RJ everyday could lead to serious problems as well.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yabbut...

He’s far more brutal at 2b than at LF, and a significance between a poor second baseman and a poor corner OFer is much more pronounced.

"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens

by bobby h on Dec 16, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think he's as brutal

in LF as other people do. He’s a competent LF. He’s NOT a competent 2B.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 1:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.

In fact, if anyone has a copy of last season’s Wrigley Season Ticket lying around, I’d point them to cwyers’ statistical look at Soriano’s defensive performance, which (IIRC) showed him to be an above-average left fielder, all things considered.

Of course, that was for 2007. I’m not sure what the stats say about his ’08 performance. I admit he did have a few spectacular errors, but those were relatively few in number.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I actually think

he played BETTER in the last half of 08 than he did in 07.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he can't play LF well, how are we to trust him in RF?

"Truth does not do as much good in the world as the semblance of truth does evil," - Duc de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims, 64.

by Emelie on Dec 16, 2008 11:47 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's kind of my point.

He’s going to be a liability anyway. Why not in RF? Is there REALLY that big of a difference?

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

When two (assuming a Dunn type signing) out of your three outfielders can’t go back on balls…you end up turning a lot of outs into singles/doubles. In addition, you take your best outfielder and stick him in his worst position (CF). That not only has the potential to lead to runs but it also racks up unneeded wear and tear on your pitching staff.

Year after year, we see that good pitching and defense wins championships. The phil’s two butchers were at 1st and Left where all butchers belongs. The cubs would be remiss to commit this sin.

Plus, any game that Z started would mandate that at least one of these Big Boppers be out of the lineup in order to ensure that a Cage Match does not break out in clubhouse. Cubs would probably have to hire a cut man and boxing referee as special assistants.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Dec 16, 2008 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's why I voted for the first choice

He’s awful in LF . . . he’d be awful in RF. Awful is awful.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 16, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not worth another thread...

but is anyone seriously considering Barry Bonds, who apparently doesn’t want to retire?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:51 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

"I am not retiring! I am not retiring! Where the f**k is the valet with my car?!"

See my Fanshot for details.

As I note there, I think most, if not all, teams consider Bonds toxic. Then again, maybe someone will surprise us by picking him up on the downlow going into the season.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm openly conversing with myself about the idea...

and if he’s willing to sign a fairly cheap, 1 year deal, it might be a low-risk move. We have ample outfielders to replace him should he fail…he’s a power-hitting OBP machine…but he is toxic, and old…but maybe we need an asshole to shake things up.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I'm the most smartest person I know...

so I bounce ideas off myself.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 12:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It almost sounds like...

…you’re Bonds’ agent and you’re openly conversing with yourself about the signing.

Kansas25: Self, what can I do to put Barry Bonds in a Cubs uniform next summer.

Self: The bidding starts at five mil, and Barry’s gonna want a suite and 30 tickets for every home game.

Kansas25: Whoa, whoa, whoa…five mil? Can we bring that down a notch or two.

Self: Look, his numbers speak for themselves. Do you want him or not?

Kansas25: Damnit, Self. You drive a hard bargain. Let me get back to you.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I should come to terms with myself...

in another 3-4 months.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 3:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But if we're going to sign an a-hole

couldn’t we sign Milton Bradley and at least get a younger, more athletic a-hole?

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 2:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Or we could sign them all.

Bonds in Left. Bradley in Center. Dunn in Right. Soriano at 2B. Abreu at SS.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

I like the offense in that lineup. And the offensiveness they would bring to the clubhouse.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 16, 2008 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We'll sign Manny

to take over for Ward also.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Manny off the bench would be a nice luxury

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 9:54 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How do you know he's toxic....

I love that everyone in the baseball world assumes Barry Bonds is Toxic. We only know what we know about Bonds because of the media. So he hates the Fing media…so in turn the media hates him and wallah we hate Bonds. Well I ain’t buying. Sure he’s in trouble for some things but being toxic to his team isn’t one of them. Not one of you would welcome Barry Bonds if he brought us a title? I don’t care what legal problems Bonds has, what I do care about is how great of a baseball player Bonds IS…with and without steroids. I’d even go as far as saying he’d probably out produce DLee next year.
Invite Bonds to spring training…what’s it going to hurt? Bonds would play for league minimum just to prove to everyone he could still play. I guess you guys are lucky I’m not running the club cause I’d have signed him last year and maybe we’d be talking about how great it finally is to be world champions.

For the record, I know a guy who used to work for the Phillies back in the 90’s, and during the winter meetings (after Bonds had left Pitt) this guy was hanging out with a friend from the Pirates org. Well, this friend was talking about how he knew Barry and how great of a guy Barry was (obviously this guy i know doesn’t believe him because we all hate Barry bonds…that’s what the media tells us). While the two guys were talking, Barry was talking to his agent and some exec. from the Giants…Barry happens to recognize the guy from the Pirates, stops his conversation and walks over to these two guys and has a 30 min conversation with them…well the guy I know changed his opinion about Barry and told me the it was one of the most gratifying conversations his ever had in his life. This guy I know is a baseball historian, specializing in the pre modern day era…so about the 30’s and earlier. He proceeds to tell me that Ruth is the greatest baseball player of all time…but Bonds is a close second. Just thought I’d share that story with everyone because Bonds is only an asshole to people he doesn’t like…but then again aren’t we all???

by Glen Bishop on Dec 16, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

League minimum

I really doubt that Bonds would play for the league minimum. Furthermore, I doubt that BHSC would stand for him signing a league minimum contract.

Bonds might be the worst fielder out of all our options. His last year or two in SF it was painful to watch him hobbling around on those knees. So regardless of his temperament, his bat, and his signability I’d say he’s not a good fit.

by Cubinator on Dec 16, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

The more I think of that the more I agree with your point.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 16, 2008 6:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, how do we know he's toxic?!

Um, he’s under Federal indictment.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good story

and I’ve heard similar ones about Bonds on occasion. I think when he wants to be, he can be nice.

However, some of his toxicity comes from how he treats his teammates, i.e., his oversized recliner in the middle of the clubhouse that only Barry can sit in, or how he’ll put down other players, management, etc., for no apparent reason.

It’s not just the media that portrays Barry Bonds as toxic – his former teammates have said that he’s a distraction and jerk.

I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg

by Trey2317 on Dec 17, 2008 9:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I've asked this question a few times over the past two years

The only two logical arguments against moving Sori to right are the difficulty of playing the position at Wrigley (somewhat valid) and any problems Sori would have at the plate as a result of the move (who knows how valid?).

But this essentially is like arguing whether DeRosa should be our shortstop. There are reasonable justifications for both moves (DeRosa has a better arm than Theriot, Sori has a good arm and decent wheels), but Lou doesn’t think those changes would work — so they likely won’t happen. And I think it’s clear that Lou doesn’t believe either move would work BECAUSE he hasn’t tried Sori in right or DeRosa at short (although DeRo played a few innings there in 2007).

 

by elgato on Dec 16, 2008 11:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Here's an idea...

Let’s not acquire any lousy defensive outfielder and instead get somebody who is capable of playing a quality right field. Alfonso Soriano is already trainwreck enough in the out field without shifting him over to the toughest right field in baseball and running the risk the move also fraps up his already delicate psyche.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

we already have a capable RF

Fukudome is a gold glove caliber RFer…..its Lous obsession with finding a LH power hitter thats driving all of this, and since we cant trade Lee, OF is where he wants it to be.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The lineup has critical need for a left-handed bat in the middle of the order

There is consensus on that point. Kosuke Fukudome was not the answer in 2008. Cubs don’t have the luxury of assuming Kosuke can get things figured out and solve the need in 2009. Hence they need to make a move. If Kosuke does indeed get sorted out then he gives us a valuable left handed bat in center field.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt call it a consensus in the slightest

the team led the NL in runs scored last year. Lou wants a lefty power hitter to balance out the lineup, in part b/c of the dodgers series, when, in fact, a leadoff hitter wouldve been more benefical b/c they needed to manufacture runs somehow while Soriano was chasing every slider known to man

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Two things are needed

A. A quality left-handed bat who can be sandwiched in the middle of Lee, Ramirez, Soto and DeRosa — on this point Jim Hendry agrees

B. A leadoff hitter — on this point I don’t believe Hendry sees the urgency.

If the season started tomorrow then Alfonso Soriana will once again be leadoff hitter. Unfortunately, I think Hendry and Piniella are perfectly fine with that.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Does he though?

I mean the large part of his attention so far has been dedicated to trying to upgrade the rotation and tweaking the bullpen.

I wouldnt say your A is necessary at all, it would help, but the lineup had no problems scoring last year.

I would say Hendry does see the urgency, just not the opportunity, dont forget last years Roberts fiasco and I would have no doubt he’d enter the fray again if he felt he had more of a chance than last season.

Its just that a LH OF is easier to obtain, and would be beneficial, but not as critical as a leadoff hitter, which, as we are seeing, is harder to find.

So it might not be a consensus, just a convenience

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on now...

…did you intentionally misspell Alfonso’s last name like that?

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lou? Is that you?

What’s that you say? You have a 330 winning % in the playoffs since your last title because of a LH bat that wasn’t there?

Baxter?

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The lineup has critical need for a left-handed bat in the middle of the order

right, because we couldn’t score runs last year…

oh, wait…

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 1:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to ask..

are you really Blue Mike?

by Damen Jackson on Dec 16, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt in my mind.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The lack of inquiry as to WTF

you are discussing is somewhat of a giveaway.

by N Oakley on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens

by bobby h on Dec 16, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

oh nooooooooooo

quick, somebody find a stake.

"Truth does not do as much good in the world as the semblance of truth does evil," - Duc de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims, 64.

by Emelie on Dec 16, 2008 1:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Here ya go

"Every player should be accorded the privilege of at least one season with the Chicago Cubs. That's baseball as it should be played - in God's own sunshine. And that's really living." ~Alvin Dark

by DamonBerryhillsMitt on Dec 16, 2008 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mmmm, lunch is served.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fraps up?

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 12:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fine by me.

But it seems clear we’re going to get an OF bat.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 16, 2008 12:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't put Soriano anywhere different...

either in the field, or in the lineup. There’s really no spot in the field he’s good at, nor is there any spot in the batting order he’s good at- poor leadoff man, can’t advance a runner to hit 2nd, can’t hit 3rd or 4th as he’s poor with men on base. Can’t bat 5th as he’s righthanded in our lineup. Can’t bat further down as he’ll see no fastballs, the only pitch he can hit. As you can see, he really limits our options in many ways, not to mention the salary constraints he puts on the rest of the team. Oh, and I hear he’s fragile mentally. Just we need on this team….

I really wish we would have signed Carlos Lee instead. Cheaper, great cleanup hitter, money with men on base. Oh well, hindsight’s always 20/20.

by reedjohnson on Dec 16, 2008 12:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sori can hit more than fastballs

And he could hit fifth (I think) if we had a left-handed cleanup hitter. If the Cubs sign Bradley/Dunn, Sori could fit nicely behind that hitter, with Lee in the two hole and Aramis hitting third. I don’t think that’s what Lou will do (there isn’t a better leadoff option on the roster), but it could work if we had another leadoff option.

But I totally agree with you re: Carlos Lee. He’s probably a little worse defensively, but he would have balanced the lineup AND only required a 5-year deal. I can’t imagine what we’ll be saying about Sori’s contract in 2011 or 2012.

by elgato on Dec 16, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm contractually obligated to point out...

…that Carlos Lee wanted to play in Texas, not Chicago. My understanding is it would have been next to impossible for the Cubs to sign him.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

didn't know that

Thanks for the info.

by elgato on Dec 16, 2008 1:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, apparently he's got a ranch there.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't Do It vs. Won't Do It

Here is my issue with Soriano. I disagree that he cannot play right or center field. I believe it is more of a case that he either won’t put in the work to do it or doesn’t have the mental toughness to play the position. My guess is that it is a combination of the two. Regardless, it is more accurate to say that he chooses not to do it.

Soriano has all the physical tools to play either position. He has speed, arm strength. What he doesn’t have is good form, good routes to the ball, a good first step. Most of these problems are based in mental desire. The fundamentals can be practiced and improved upon, if the desire to do so is there.

But when I see Soriano, I see a selfish guy coasting on his talent. He is a star player who could be a superstar player with a stronger work ethic and desire to do more. For example:

-He wants to leadoff, and pouts when he can’t.
-He initially refused to play LF (for the Nationals), even refusing to take the field. Instead of embracing the challenge of playing the OF, he whined, even though it was the best thing for the team.
-He refuses to adjust his game, swinging for the fences in all cases, regardless of the situation.

None of these are the hallmarks of a superstar or of leader. And for the amount of money he is being paid, it is disappointing.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Dec 16, 2008 12:49 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

sigh.

He wants to leadoff, and pouts when he can’t. Prove it. He has said repeatedly, he will bat where Lou tells him to bat.
He initially refused to play LF (for the Nationals), even refusing to take the field. Instead of embracing the challenge of playing the OF, he whined, even though it was the best thing for the team. That was for a different team, in a different time. He has said repeatedly, he will play where Lou tells him to play.
He refuses to adjust his game, swinging for the fences in all cases, regardless of the situation. Did you not pay any attention to his play when he returned from the DL late last year? Lots of singles and doubles. Stolen bases. Running back towards the wall to make catches.

He’s not perfect. None of us are.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but...

I also saw him jog to get to a ball that, if he had run, could have been a single or a double, instead, giving the extra base due to apathy. I agree no one is perfect, but its the lack of passion a pure complacency that drives me crazy.
That and that annoying hop he just HAS to do.
He seems to be a great player when he is motivated to be, but that motivation seems to be hampered by an ego.
Just my 2 cents.

by chrisw95 on Dec 16, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The hop is utterly irrelevant. Every player has their idiosyncrasies. Superstition is a huge part of baseball.

I don’t think people are turning many singles into doubles on Soriano.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 2:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And you can't state for certainty...

…that it was “apathy” that made him do (or not do) anything, nor that he has a “lack of passion.” I’m assuming you’re not posting from inside his head. And the man has had leg problems, y’know. If anything, I’d say he has too much passion for the game. It’s that passion that makes him so impatient at the plate, which is really the only thing about him that drives me completely nuts.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You see what you see....

… I see what I see.

I see a guy who will try to pull curveballs on the outer half into the bleachers when a simple ground ball to the right side will do.
I see a guy who tries to hit the ball a mile on every cut, rather than trying to just make contact periodically.
I see a guy who does his “hot dog hop” on routine flyballs, rather than on balls leaving the yard.
I see a guy who can’t make routine plays in the outfield.
I see a guy who hits .297 over the last three years in his happy leadoff spot, and .169 (26-for-153) in any other spot in the lineup. (http://beta.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3993&type=batting3)
I see a guy who will say he is a team guy, who will say he will do whatever the manager wants, but whose actions do not match his words.

I see a guy who could be so much more. I don’t want him to be perfect, but I would like to see something in him that makes me think he gives a damn.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Dec 16, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

see, and that's the difference

I’m going off fact, and you’re going off what you see.

I see a guy who hits .297 over the last three years in his happy leadoff spot, and .169 (26-for-153) in any other spot in the lineup. (http://beta.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3993&type=batting3)

Which is a huge argument for keeping him in the leadoff spot. Or are you suggesting that Soriano is deliberately sucking when he’s hitting in a different spot?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 2:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fact? All you have done is paraphrased some quotes from Soriano and some observations of your own about singles, doubles and stolen bases. Your observations are no more or less valid than mine, you just phrased them differently.

You bring up the numbers, so lets look at them.
Pre All-Star break and midseason injury .283 BA, .879 OPS, 7SB, 1 CS
Post break and injury .278 BA, .873 OPS., 12 SB, 2 CS

So what I see is a guy whose numbers didn’t dramatically change at the plate. A few more doubles, a few less RBI. More walks. Better stolen base totals, which are more a result of being healthy and able to run. So, sorry, I am not impressed with his post injuryimprovement.

As for your question, his inability to hit competently elsewhere in the lineup is not a good argument for batting him leadoff. It is more an action of last resort.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Dec 16, 2008 3:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

so, what

he’s LYING, as well as booting it when he bats someplace else other than leadoff?

Man. You sure seem to know him a lot better than everyone else does.

Soriano bats first because LOU wants him there. He plays left field because LOU wants him there.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No...

Piniella bats him first because he has too. Otherwise, he goes into the tank offensively.
He plays left field because it is the only place to hide his glove and defensive ineptitude.

I do not accuse Soriano of intentionally tanking, or choosing to fail. I am accusing him of not fulfilling his potential and not being mentally tough.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this? -Oysterband

by Ross on Dec 16, 2008 10:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, ok. According to your logic, we could have Riot pitch, or Fontenot play first, because they should be able to be tough enough. Or have Lilly bat fourth. He’s hockey tough.

Soriano is an average left-fielder.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano's made it clear...

…that the hop is a timing thing. He’s not showing off. Honestly, it doesn’t make him look that cool or anything, so I don’t see how it could be called hot dogging.

And he made plenty of routine plays in the outfield this season. They just weren’t as memorable as the two or three forehead-slapping errors that had Bob Brenly reaching for his defribillator. And I think Soriano cares a lot and loves to play the game. He’s just got some, as Drew said, idiosyncracies that tend to rub people the wrong way.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 2:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Reminds me of Manny a little...

not quite as bizarre and anti-team, but certainly misunderstood.

Free Ronny Cedeno

by Kansas25 on Dec 16, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Soriano Should

be able to play RF………… athletically…………..but my fear would be that it would take him a long long time to adjust……….both to the angle of the ball off the bat and to the different throw.

As for him in the lineup…………there is a very valid argument to keep him leading off……..a pretty good “sample size” over his career suggests leading off is best for him. Regardless of what we think the reason is he should likely stay at the top. Does anyone really want to watch him flailing away in the middle of the lineup when history suggests he does not perform well there?

I have ripped him apart several times here……….but…………..l a look at his numbers last year says he would have probably hit 40 HR’s and drove in close to 100 runs from the leadoff spot. Pretty damn impressive stuff (maybe MVP type stuff) My feelings on him are that I wish we would have gone a different route than him 2 years ago…….given his length of contract and the fact he truly does not have a position he excels at………..but the team has bigger issues than Alfonso Soriano. He is what he is…..sometimes unblievably good………at times maddening but like it or not, he’s here for 6 more years so we are all going to have to deal with it.

by plenz on Dec 16, 2008 3:16 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Actually, his numbers in the five hole aren't too shabby.

In 626 PAs, he’s hit for an .824 OPS, which includes slugging for .513. And, to answer your question, yeah, I’d rather he flail away in the five hole than kill the team’s offensive momentum doing so out of the lead off spot – at least during the postseason.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

thats the thing though, you cant just change his order come playoff time

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you could...

…but I realize it would probably cause a sports media firestorm and Lou probably wouldn’t do it to begin with. I don’t mind Soriano batting lead off in the regular season because there’s 162 games to even out his streakiness. In a short series, though, his impatient approach just seems to kill the offense from the git-go. Maybe that’s just my perception, though.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right, but to expect Soriano to adapt in a 3 game span is unrealistic

when he can barely do it during a 162 game span, which is why no one has really tried.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 4:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I think he adapts rather well over the 162-game season.

He doesn’t have classic lead-off-man-type numbers, but if he’s flirting with a .900 OPS, as he’s done the last two seasons with the Cubs, I’ll take it.

My perception is just that, when the pressure is ramped up during the playoffs, and the Cubs are facing ace-level pitchers bringing their A games, the team needs a lead off guy who can slow down the game and take some pitches. And that’s just not how Soriano rolls.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 4:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well I was joking somewhat

my point was I dont think its a good idea to have him leadoff for 162 games and then, all of a sudden, ask him to change in the playoffs, with the idea that the reason for keeping him in leadoff was that he wouldnt be able to adapt another slot w/o really throwing him out of whack b/c he’s such a streaky guy

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sure but

they ALL do that. the whole frakkin’ team rolled up like an armadillo.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I get your point

but we have a roster full of guys flailing away (at least in the last 6 postseason games)
As much as I really don’t like Soriano much as a player overall, I don’t buy the argument that you CAN’T win in the postseason with him leading off. There are a multitude of reasons we have failed the last 2 years………..he’s just one of them.
What’s his OPS in the leadoff spot? And do we have or will we have someone legit to leadoff?

by plenz on Dec 16, 2008 3:43 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

His career OPS in the leadoff spot is .893.

But bear in mind he has 3,296 PAs in that spot. The next closest is batting third, where he has 688 PAs and a .761 OPS.

And I would say, no, the Cubs don’t otherwise have a legit leadoff hitter, just guys who could arguably fill the roll depending on what numbers you look at. If the team had an obvious choice, I really think Lou would drop Soriano down to probably the five hole and be done with it.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 16, 2008 3:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I say Derrek Lee in the 3 hole

is of FAR more concern than having Soriano in the 1 spot.

by plenz on Dec 16, 2008 3:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

+1

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this.

Maybe Soto could bat third… :D

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 16, 2008 4:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe........

I’d rather see Abreu or Bradley……….Ideally Soto5 and Lee 6…

by plenz on Dec 16, 2008 4:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ramirez 3rd, new guy 4th....

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 16, 2008 4:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have a problem with

Sori staying in left field. My biggest problem is with the lineup. I’d much rather see a guy lead off that is going to take a few pitches, ex Reed Johnson. I’d be a lot easier to set the table for Lee and Ramirez if there were runners on base, especially with Riot being able to move someone over.

Andy R.

by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 16, 2008 4:03 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

One problem with moving Sori to RF...

If he plays in the WBC, he won’t have a full ST to adapt to RF. I think he would be willing to do it, but he needs a lot of reps, and he won’t get it with the chopped up ST routine.

BTW, that was a big issue in Washington with his move to LF. He played 2B for the D.R., then had only about 8 days to try to learn LF; it’s understandable that he was concerned and didn’t want to do it at that point — no one wants to be embarrassed on the field.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 16, 2008 5:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Barring the unforseen, Soriano will once again be leadoff hitter in 2009

Hendry doesn’t seem to think the Cubs need a leadoff hitter. Or at least it’s not on his list of “to dos” this offseason. Plus everything out of Piniella’s mouth suggest a manager who is fine with Soriano as his leadoff man. I don’t agree, but I’m not the manager. In defense of Piniella’s position on the matter I guess there isn’t a better option on the roster.

by BLou on Dec 16, 2008 5:15 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agree...

The Cubs’ top priority was a starting LH Bat…not a lead off hitter. Remember, the Cubs won 97 games without a lead off hitter…or a true clean up guy. The cubs have plenty of guys that can hit 3rd, 5th and 6th. There are only two guys on the market that I see could hit 4th for the Cubs, Dunn and Bonds. Even if we get Bradley, he wouldn’t hit 4th. The only lead off hitter is now with ATL. So unless the Cubs trade for Roberts…we don’t have a better lead off option unless Fukudome learns how to hit again.

by Glen Bishop on Dec 16, 2008 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

To answer the original question...

 Outfielders have to learn, through repitition, where a baseball will land almost immediately after its hit. It is a difficult thing to do, and some have a knack while some never learn. Going back on a baseball is harder than going in. Now right field is where your better outfielder plays (not best) because of the way the ball curves. Most hitters are right handed. When they hit the opposite way, it is very difficult to pick up. It may shoot straight, or it may tail usually to from left to right. A left handed batter’s ball can go either tail right, straight, or with the wind left so you need to able to read that. Left field for the balls hit are usually alot easier to read. So to learn to play right is not easy. I did not get into the fact that the sun sets right into the rightfielders eyes. Soriano lost a balls in the sun in left, so multiply that be ten maybe? Add in the wind and maybe you understand.

  Now your playing right, the sun is low in your eyes and the wind is blowing crossways. A ball off a right handed batter is smoked to you, and you need to read it right away. Is it gonna tail,or go over straight over your head? The sun is in your eyes and the wind is blowing crossways. So you have to sprint back but which way? Keep your eye on the ball cause if oyu don’t you’ll lose it in the glare, and the wind is probably pushing it away from you. Oh did I mention the brick wall your headed full speed at.Fu played an excellant right field except for his throws. He took away many hits that we here should at least give him credit for.

by GHCF2314 on Dec 16, 2008 9:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Well, now that you put it that way...

…I’m going to have hereby abandon any notion of Alfonso Soriano ever playing right field. I still think he plays a serviceable-to-good left field (when you factor in his arm), but I have a hard time picturing him ever making the adjustments to play right.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In a division that featured

(at the start of the season)
Carlos Lee
Adam Dunn
Chris Duncan
Ryan Braun

in LF, Sori isn’t a bad LF at all. RF might be a different story…

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 17, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

DISASTER.........

He has to stay in left ,,,No where else ….The Cubs knew that when they signed him . How many routine fly balls did he misplay last season ??? It wasn’t pretty and in fact cost the Cubs the game ….

by cubs north on Dec 17, 2008 10:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Three

One in Pittsburgh, two in St. Louis. He arguably cost us one game.

How many games did Kerry Wood cost us blowing saves? Five, I think.

That’s fewer than the number of errors the infield produced in Game 2 of the playoffs.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"The Cubs knew that when they signed him"

That’s why he started out in CF!

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 17, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be a disaster for two reasons...

1. If Soriano is switched to RF, he’s now playing the sun field during home day games which would only exaccerbate his the lousy reads he gets on balls. Rather, having broken the wrong way on a ball, he would have even more trouble picking it up as it comes toward him out of the sun.

2. Having posted about his arm in the past, I’ve learned that some of you are absolutely convinced that Soriano has a cannon and I doubt that I can dissuade you of that opinion. Nevertheless….

From watching him, my own opinion is that Soriano has a very effective throwing arm because he releases the ball very quickly and his throws are very accurate. In terms of actual arm strength though, he’s probably below average but the first two factors, especially the quick release, more than compensate for the weakness of his throws, allowing him to pile up assists. Moving to RF, and having to make the longer throw across the diamond to third, that lack of true strength would negate much of the effectiveness that he gains from getting rid of the ball so quickly. If he was playing in RF next year, you’d see a lot more runners moving first to third or tagging up than when Dome was playing out there.

"Some people will look at a glass of water and say it's half-empty, while another guy will look at it and say it's half-full. A Cubs fan looks at the same glass and asks, "When's it gonna spill?" - Mike Royko

by LaddieRenfroe on Dec 17, 2008 12:41 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Agree about Sori's arm.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 17, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hm, well...

…I think your points about his quick release and accurate are excellent. I’m not sure I buy that his arm is below average in strength, though. He does a pretty damn good job of getting the ball to home plat.

That said, his arm probably isn’t as strong as a lot of people give it credit for. But, as you say, the way he gets rid of the ball immediately (kinda like a second baseman) and his fan-pleasing knack for tailing the ball right into the catcher makes the result the same.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 1:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be nice....

to hear Soriano say at ST he spent his offseason shaggin fly balls, don’t think we will hear that though.

I'm finally moving on...

by slocs55 on Dec 17, 2008 12:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Based on a story I read this past year...

…he may have been shaggin’ something else.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh behave!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 17, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Based upon the picture and various state definitions on what constitutes a minor,

you may not be able to print her name.

(Search the “Mark DeRosa’s wife” fanshot, I think the photo is in there)

by N Oakley on Dec 18, 2008 8:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting....

google mike tyson fat, he is huge.

I'm finally moving on...

by slocs55 on Dec 18, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Some woman posted pictures of herself and Soriano on her Facebook page.

I’m guessing if you Google “Soriano, Facebook, skank” you might be able to find the story.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's Ms. Skank to you, sir.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 18, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If I'm nasty, of course.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A thought I forgot,

moving Soriano in order to get Dunn would be a terrible decision. That would then mean we have to below average outfielders instead of one. I love Sori’s arm, I am strictly talking about going after fly balls and covering the field.

I'm finally moving on...

by slocs55 on Dec 17, 2008 12:56 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

two sp*

I'm finally moving on...

by slocs55 on Dec 17, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless I missed something, moving Soriano to RF is not going to be on the table

It’s high time the Cubs start to receive some real value from their idiotic $136 million investment in the guess hitting hack. The LAST thing Hendry and Piniella are going to do is throw another wrench into the works and have to deal with Soriano learning a new position. Soriano is here to HIT, period. He’s figured out left field about as good as he is ever going to. Don’t touch him.

by BLou on Dec 17, 2008 1:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

If any of you have any lingering doubts that this is bluemike...

…this post should put the matter to rest.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

+1

I was thinking the same thing. It’s official now, the prodigal son has returned. Feel free to add anything to the “son” reference.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 17, 2008 2:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

he had me at Hack.

BlueMike, why can’t we quit you?

Oh, right.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

He can stay as long as he sticks to baseball and behaves himself.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

fine by me.

seriously.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 17, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's been nothing but civil so far.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's been the pattern with each new user name.

And then it changes. We’ll see if he can keep civil this time.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Need charts and graphs with the civility ratio to time of year,

lunar cycle, hot stove etc.

Then you can pre-emptively ban him just before his scheduled relapse.

by N Oakley on Dec 17, 2008 3:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody get cwyers on the horn.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 17, 2008 3:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

how many times have you banned him?

2…3…5?

"Truth does not do as much good in the world as the semblance of truth does evil," - Duc de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims, 64.

by Emelie on Dec 17, 2008 3:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Five.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 17, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it's like playing whack a mole

"Truth does not do as much good in the world as the semblance of truth does evil," - Duc de La Rochefoucauld, Maxims, 64.

by Emelie on Dec 18, 2008 4:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Sort of.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2008 8:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, I had no idea it was quite that many.

You could start a blog about banning bluemike.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You could, I suppose.

I’ll leave that task to you, if you want it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 18, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

banningbluemike.blogspot.com

Done.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't do it. I'll miss his rapier-like wit and his

elegant repartee.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 18, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I wouldn't ban him (even if I could).

I’m just going to blog about his progress toward being banned and, when he finally is banned again, I’ll of course provide full coverage.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 18, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sort of a play-by-play of his antics. I kind of like it. We could call

it something like “The Sand Pounding Diaries” or “The Life and Times of Mambochicken”.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 18, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

where's the RSS feed?

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 18, 2008 1:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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