Rick Ankiel?
by Eric16 on Dec 18, 2008 1:31 PM CST
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PrintAlright I know its not even 2009 yet and Im lookin ahead to 2010 just cuz im bored today and I know alot of people would not like to see it but I would love it. Rick Ankiel. The Cardinals are lookin to trade him now before he leaves next fall and you dont trade within your division but I think Ankiel would be perfect for this team a stong left handed bat. Amazing arm anything low and in and its gone, he did have some injury issues last year but still. I think if Kosuke is startin in center or right this year and fails I would think Hendry would give Ankiel a really good shot. And forget about him being a Cardinal look at Edmonds and even worse the Cardinals would hate us even more!!
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Meh.
Ankiel will be 30 in July. You mentioned the injury issues. I’d say pass.
(I also changed the title of your post so people know what you’re talking about!)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
In theory,
signing Rick Ankiel after next year would be a good move. Realistically, it’s going to be very hard to sign him because A) Scott Boras is his agent and B) the payroll is going to be even higher next year, or at least that is what I have heard.
All that being said, if he can be had for a decent price I would love to see him here, albeit in right field, not center.
Wait and See On Ankiel
If Colby Rasmus develops into the Cardinals starting centerfielder in 2009, Ankiel would become expendable. Quite frankly, I think Rasmus needs more work at AAA Memphis before he goes to St. Louis.
I think Ankiel needs to cut down on his strikeouts. He’s more prone to bad slumps than other hitters. If he can be had for a reasonable price for 2010, I’d go after him. If he’s looking for a 4-year, $40 million deal, then I wouldn’t touch him with a 10-foot pole.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
What is this "reasonable price" you speak of?
They have those on FAs?
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
Really Good Question
I wouldn’t give Ankiel any more than a 3-year, $10 million deal. That wouldn’t sound reasonable to Ankiel and his agent. Though, it should sound more than reasonable. He does provide a power-hitting left-handed bat, but he doesn’t deserve max money. Though, I wouldn’t mind making $10 million before taxes in a three-year period.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
Come on.
Ankiel is worth much more than three years/ten million dollars. There are bench players that make that kind of money. Seeing how Ankiel is a very unique player, he must be viewed a bit differently. He is already twenty-nine, but considering that he’s been a hitter for only a few seasons, he should be viewed as a player entering his early/prime years. In his first “full” season as a hitter, he posted a very respectable line of .264/.337/.506. His average and OBP don’t jump at you, but he has big-time power. In just 413 AB’s he hit twenty five homer and 21 doubles, and would be a candidate to hit forty homers given 600 AB’s. He doesn’t walk all that much, but he displayed improved plate patience, going from a walk rate of 7% in 2007 to 9.2% in 2008. If he were to improve to, say, a .275/.350/.530 type hitter he would be an All-Star. I’d give him ten million annually over three years, but Hendry might not have the payroll to take on that kind of a deal.
Agree
good power…and can run well…and I think he may actually have a cannon on his throwing arm…does anyone in baseball throw a better ball from CF???
Wasn't it enough...
…that we had to stomach Edmonds? What the heck are you trying to do here?! Me no likey Rickey Ankiely. – TL
[In 2008] Kila Ka’aihue had the best on-base percentage of any hitter in the minor leagues. - Joe Posnanski, 11/9/2008 ... Ergo, let's give him a shot at first base in KC in 2009.
+10000000000000
"Happiness? A good cigar, a good meal, a good cigar and a good woman - or a bad woman; it depends on how much happiness you can handle." ~ George Burns
Can't we just convert
Rich Hill into an outfielder?
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
I'm tellin' ya...
…that might be his best shot at seeing the inside of a major league clubhouse again.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
Have you ever seen him pitch?
I mean lately. He’s walkin’, like, a batter an inning.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
I'm not sure
he played long enough in any game last year to actually come UP to bat.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
Borass is his agent
Let someone else bid against Borasses imaginary bidders…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
You already point out why it's an irrelevant discussion point...
I simply don’t see the Cards being willing to deal Ankiel to the Cubs. It’s possible he could be had as a free agent, but who knows if we’ll have a spot for him depending on whom we bring in this winter for RF.
I like Rick Ankiel a great deal
He is a surprisingly good all around player. The problem is the injuries and the fact that he is current property of St. Louis. I just don’t see them trading Ankiel to the Cubs. Plus it looks to me like the Cardinals are gunning for another playoff run in what should be Tony LaRussa’s last season as manager. Going after Brian Fuentes to go along with adding Khalil Greene and handing our $40 million to Kyle Lohse suggests a team gunning for a run.
Mlbtraderumors listed next years free agents
Doesn’t look like a good list… Cubs need to find an outfield this year.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
Well..
Soriano in 2007? $136 million bust.
Kosuke in 2008? $48 million disappointment (to put it charitably)
….Cubs can’t keep going out and bidding for a new outfielder each year in hopes they finally get it right. I think Hendry is focused on Milton Bradley right now, but if his pricetag becomes too big or he is interested in signing elsewhere then I’m not sure what Plan B is. Though I’m certain it doesn’t include Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu.
Didn't you used to like
the Soriano signing??
Soriano would be more valuable if he hit further down the order. Hitting the playoffs would help too. lol.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
Soriano is hardly a bust...
He’s overpaid (though not for long), but he’s not a bust.
If anything Fukudome is the one who looks like he could be a bust.
+1
I started to say the same thing but then noticed who I was replying to. Calling a guy who put up a .897 OPS (123 OPS+) a bust is…well…nevermind.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
I don't know how you can argue with a straight face that Soriano is a bust
For $136 million I expect somebody who hits good pitching, doesn’t go into prolonged cold slumps of such severity that it kills the team and does something greater than zero in the postseason. We purchased a franchise player who has turned out a colossally bad mistake. Soriano beats up bad pitching and goes on hot streaks that propel his personal statistics to sexy territory at the end of the year. So what.
I don't see how you can argue that he IS a bust
I think you have a warped view of the definition of what a bust is.
Is Soriano currently overpaid? Absolutely. But he’s also still very productive. His production doesn’t meet his salary, but that is FAR from a bust.
You simply cannot be both productive and a bust.
I don't view Soriano as a bust.
I look at it as Hendry paying Soriano as if he is a franchise player while he should have known that he isn’t. Soriano is not a superstar, but he is a very good (regular season) player who had the hopes of Cub nation thrown onto his shoulders. Lets not forget, after Hendry gave Soriano that fat deal the reports were that nobody else came even close to those figures, making it Hendry’s problem that those enormous expectations came to be, not Soriano’s. If Soriano made fifteen million annually instead of nineteen, I think things would be quite different.
Exactly.
It’s all about the Benjamins.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
He makes $17 million annually...
and actually, he’s been making much less in the first few years. At the most expensive, he’ll be making $18 million.
Granted, that’s nitpicking over a few million dollars. But He’s been making less than $15 million to this point as a Cub.
The question will be whether he continues to be productive on the back end, when he’s making $18 million per year.
My bad.
I was under the assumption that it was a seven year, 136 million dollar deal, giving him a 19.5 million dollar annual income. It’s an eight year deal, so I’m off a bit.
No problem..
In 2007, Soriano made $8 million. In 2008, he made $13 million. In 2009, he’ll make $16 million. It isn’t until 2010 that things get dicey. He makes $18 million for each year from 2010-2014. There’s an $8 million signing bonus as well. I don’t know if that was paid up front as a lump sum or whether it’s an annual $1 million payment.
Either way, he was actually reasonably priced in 2008, and either a bit overpriced in 2007 or a bargain in 2007 (depending on the bonus structure). It remains to be seen whether Soriano is overpriced or not on the back end of the deal. My guess is the answer will be “yes,” but that depends upon his health.
I don't know who to agree with here...
While he’s not a bust, he also hasn’t earned his money. The Cubs really overpaid for him…but…I guess I’d lean toward him not being a bust. Although, Soriano was out for 40 games this year and the Cubs still won 97 games…does that not diminish his value some??? Just a thought.
or it increases it
he can carry the team for weeks at a time. Without him, we did ok early in the season, but I think we really did need him later in the season.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Well, this is just a fundamental disagreement we have, perhaps.
I don’t believe in sexy, personal statistics. All the hits and slugging that went into that .897 OPS didn’t happen in a vaccuum. They helped propel the 2007 Chicago Cubs to a division championship.
Soriano’s approach at the plate drives me nuts as well – especially in the postseason. But he is paid an admittedly ridiculous amount of money to hit and he does that. Well, during the regular season, at least. All hitters are streaky. For whatever reason, his cold streaks just seem to stand out more. Maybe it’s because of the heightened expectations we all have of him or maybe because that’s just the way his numbers run.
At the end of the day, I’ll admit that I stubbornly insist on seeing the glass half full with Alfonso.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
by daver on Dec 18, 2008 4:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
soriano is a good hitter
nothing more, nothing less. he doesn’t “feast” on bad pitching no more than other hitter. his hole in his hitting is that he doesn’t walk. Lou thinks he should hit lead off, which is retarded, but that’s what we have. Why theriot is not the lead off hitter, is beyond me.
Batting 1st 700 (g) 3296 (PA) .293 .342 .550 .893
Batting 5th 148 (G) 626 (PA) .268 .312 .513 .824
notice the small sample size in him batting 5th. Also, keep in mind he had his “prime years” as a lead off hitter when he put up the monster year in washington. he struggled with the yankees coming up when he was a 5th hitter and other spots. these splits aren’t enough to cause concern.
Stats against CC .333 .442 .806 1.248
Dontrelle .381 .435 .619 1.054
Haren 353 .353 .882 1.235
by scarymonsters85 on Dec 18, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I remember looking at Soriano's numbers against CC...
…during the season. For some reason, he owns him. I guess that doesn’t matter too much anymore, though.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
it's a really small sample size
but yeah, I posted it to prove a point that soriano can hit good pitching, too.
by scarymonsters85 on Dec 18, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions
Here's what I would say to that
Knowing what you know today….
if Alfonso Soriano was presently a free agent and you had the opportunity to sign him for $68 million (or 1/2 his current deal), would you do it ????
My answer would be a resounding NO. Even when I eliminate my disdain for him and let objectivity role. What would your answer be? And lets be serious here with answer.
I think the problem is the free agency sweepstakes.
At certain times, contending teams HAVE to overpay for free agents.
What’s the other way you can get marquee players? Trades. What do you need for trades? Prospects, and good ones. We used our prospects, except one (Vitters). So, we’ve gone this route too.
But, free agency starts an auction-like atmosphere for players. Think about why you would sell stuff on eBay. You get a lot more for it. You don’t care that your Chicago Bulls Unbelieva-BULLS T-shirt is going to a nice, smokefree home where it can win. You send it to where it got the most money. This means that someone’s paying $30 for your t-shirt that has a few holes here and there, and a funky yellow stain in the left armpit.
If you want players like Alfonso Soriano (come on, he’s pretty good though not an All-Star), you have to overpay. Otherwise, we could go the Marlins route and just depend on a bunch of young guys to click every 6 years or so. Which would take a complete shift in organizational philosophy.
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
Right.
The Cubs signed Soriano in part, to make a statement that they wanted to become a major player in free agency. Soriano was the top free agent available after 2006. They overpaid. They HAD to overpay.
Are we paying for that now? In part, yes. On the other hand, Soriano DOES provide production, at times carrying the team. He’s not completely worthless.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
there's no way to answer that question
in a vacuum.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
sigh.
He carries the team. You know this.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
I'd argue that
Rammy, Demp, Z, Lilly carry the team more. Maybe even D-Ro. But, Soriano at least is holding the light corner of this team.
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
they all have their strengths, they all have their weaknesses. Z had problems late in the season, Lilly had problems early, Demp broke down at exactly the wrong moment…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
doesnt look like a good list?
holliday, bay, crisp, nady, werth are all good OF
by scarymonsters85 on Dec 18, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
bay resigns with boston
nady and werth are righties. crisp doesn’t hit for power. holliday will go elsewhere.. this is the year to get someone, not next.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
Either that, or you hope...
that Colvin resurfaces as a prospect ready to take over in 2010. I’m not counting on that though.
It’s sort of a moot point though, because we’re almost certainly going to get somebody this year to address the OF spot. And that person is likely to be brought in for more than one year.
Yep
seems they want a 2-3 year deal and hope someone surfaces from the minor leagues in a few years..
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
it doesn't matter if our whole entire lineup is filled with righties
if they produce at an all-star or near all-star level. the whole obsession over handedness is a red herring for our collapse in the post season. a lefty thumper isn’t going to inspire aramis ramirez and the rest of the team to hit in bunches, or not make errors, or walk a million people. stop thinking so one-dimensionally.
by scarymonsters85 on Dec 18, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions
It may or may not matter hypothetically...
but Hendry and Piniella have made it abundantly clear that they need to get a LH power bat for the OF. Thus, while you may think it doesn’t matter, in practice it most certainly DOES matter. They’re going to address the spot by adding a LH power bat, so discussing RH options is pointless.
just as pointless as discussing LH bats
it’s not as if hendry and piniella read BCB for ideas, this site is for fans. If hendry thinks a LH power bat who puts up an OPS of .780 is more valuable than RH bat who OPS’s .900 simply because of his handedness, well that’s when we should call for Lou and Jim’s heads.
by scarymonsters85 on Dec 18, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
a power hitting LH bat
who can play defensively sound right field is a hard find… especially when you are working with an extremely tight budget. it would net us more wins to just find the best available talent, regardless of handedness…
What’s the harm of starting Fontenot at 2B this year. He played great defense at second, and dero can play RF. Or use Dero as a centerpiece for a trade, considering he is going to be a FA after the season. Sell high on him.
by scarymonsters85 on Dec 18, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
There's no harm...
It’s just that it doesn’t solve the problem that Piniella and Hendry see. I actually think the Cubs are trying to find a way to get Fontenot in the lineup more. But that is in addition to the LH power bat issue.
Not really...
at least we’re discussing things that have a chance of happening. Obviously we have no impact on what Hendry does.
As for your hypothetical, I argue it’s irrelevant. Hendry doesn’t have to choose between those alternatives. The question is whether Hendry will overpay for an .850-.900 OPS guy that is a liability defensively but is LH or whether he’d go for a .900 OPS but is RH. And I can virtually guarantee you he’s going to do the former.
I wouldn't mind adding another right handed power hitter
but pinella’s calling the shots, not me.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
I think we have plenty of RH power...
Soriano, Ramirez, Soto, Lee, and DeRosa are all 15+ HR guys. The only RH guy in the lineup who ISN’T a decent power hitter from the right side is Theriot, and we’re not likely to find a power bat at SS.
Piniella/Hendry just feel that they need a 20+ HR guy from the left side to bat 4th or 5th in the lineup to break up the Lee/Ramirez/Soto/DeRosa foursome in the middle.
Well, yeah...
when you’ve already put players on teams, the future looks bleak.
Why can’t we accept that we’re a big club too?
"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08
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