Texiera and Boston a no go? ... so how do the dominoes fall now?
by BLou on Dec 19, 2008 12:13 PM CST
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PrintSeems to me that Boston owner John Henry has called Scott Boras' bluff and told him to pound sand. So if the Red Sox really are out of the bidding for Mark Texiera does that mean he goes home to the Baltimore Orioles, the team he grew up rooting for? Or does Arte Moreno and the Angels swoop in and bring Texiera back to Los Angeles, even though he has stated he really wants to go back to the northeast?
Also, does this mean Adam Dunn stops waiting and takes the big deal on the table from Washington?
Interesting. Personally I would like nothing more than for Scott Boras to FINALLY get his comeuppance. Every time I think it is about to happen he gets the last laugh. Remember last year when it looked like he overplayed his hand with A-Rod, only for A-Rod to go back to the Yankees for an unbelievable 10 year deal?
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Boras will be dancing and singing
when this is over.
This is a bluff, plain and simple. Texiera will be in Boston.
And by the way, say you are right and Tex has to “settle” for $140 million.
Boras gets 5 percent. Or $7 million.
Uh-huh, comeuppance.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Hes going to Boston
come on, why wouldnt he? that lineup is amazing enough as it is already, they have the most money. If he goes to the Nats, its just Arod to Texas all over again, they wont have any money to spend elsewhere.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Who says Dunn has a big deal on the table from Washington?
I don’t see Washington dealing with Dunn until Tex signs with another team. In terms of where do the chips fall, I don’t expect this to effect the Cubs, who are probably not even considering Dunn anyway.
Insanity
Why would you turn down that contract to play for one of the best teams in the league? Doesn’t make sense.
Meaning what?
You can’t buy the same thing with $160 million that you can with $200 million? At some point, wouldn’t the desire to win a World Series have a say in your decision. He’s not going to win one with the O’s or Nats in the next couple years. Yeah people like money. But you’re talking about an insane amount of money either way.
by McRipper on Dec 19, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
20 dollars can buy MANY peanuts...
For your information, the Supreme Court has roundly rejected prior restraint.
by Less is Walrond on Dec 19, 2008 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Here are the things you can buy with money
- Nutter Butters
- Snapple
- Porn
- Tacky Christmas Ornaments
- Books you will never read
- Ho-Hos
I’m sure I’m leaving a few things out.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Ho-Ho's can become quite expensive if you're single....
…oh, wait…..nevermind.
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 20, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
that reminds me of a Christmas Joke...
What goes “Ho Ho Ho… plop!”?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Santa Claus laughing his head off!
This joke is probably funnier if you imagine it being told to you by your 7 year old nephew on Christmas Eve after which he laughs uncontrollably while running around in his pajamas excited as can be about the impending deluge of gifts, gift, and more gifts….
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
It's all about ego at those dollar amounts.
I agree, what can you do with $200M that you can’t do with $160M? These dollar amounts are just for these guys to keep score against one another.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
That is what's wrong with baseball...
This man is going to make over $150 MILLION. How much money do you need? Nobody should be paid that amount of money to play a game. Period!
Where would you rather that money go?
Baseball’s revenues are measure in the billions – over $6 billion last year alone. Who should be getting that money if not the players?
starving children
comes to mind…
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
the auto industry?
our banking system?
by DartmouthCubsFan on Dec 19, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
realistically
starving children come to mind.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 19, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
Your looking at that from the wrong end.
If that money should be going to starving children instead of sports, then it should be happening at the consumer level.
Take that money you were going to spend on season tickets next year and donate it to charity.
Once it’s in the hands of businesses its naive to think it will go anywhere else.
HAHAAHA -- Oh man...
You just suggested people actually give money themselves, rather than sitting on their pasty, ever-expanding asses and screaming about how someone else should do it.
Hee hee heeh… wait, you were serious?
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Wow....
…just. wow.
"...the internet is not something you just dump something on. It's not a truck. It's a series of tubes." - Sen. Ted Stevens
Actually,
I donate 1.5% of my salary to the United Way, I participate in food drives, and I have, in the past, helped out at homeless shelters.
Personal charity isn’t enough.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
The correct question is
Who WOULD be getting that money instead of the players?
The answer is the owners.
It’s a fun wittle dream world people live in, thinking that the $200 million Teixera (who has donated more to charity than the combined salaries of everyone in this thread) makes would be going to charity if he instead played for $50 million.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
I'll ask the question again
Interesting. Personally I would like nothing more than for Scott Boras to FINALLY get his comeuppance.
What’s the problem with Boras exactly? His job is to get the most money for his players. He does that better than anyone in the business.
That money would be lining the owners’ pockets if it wasn’t going to the players. Are rich old guys more deserving of that money than the young athletes we’re paying to see?
by Wreckard on Dec 19, 2008 1:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
It's the principle.
The guy makes a crapton of money over the length of the contract for doing a little work on the front end. I’m not above paying somebody to take care of paperwork, but the amount of money he takes, the number of clients he has, and the self-promotion he seems to relish all combine to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Is what he’s doing evil? Not in and of itself. Is he the Wal-Mart of agents? Yeah, and as a result I wonder about how good a job he does for some of his smaller-name clients.
It’s the same way in the music business. Let’s say I write a song, record the song, and go on tour to play the song. The record company winds up taking most of the record profits and a share of the touring profits not because they had any input on the song itself, but because they can get the song played on the radio and sold in stores and talked about at the water cooler. If I decide to be an indie artist, I keep more of my money but have less publicity, so I make less money overall. Record companies and Scott Boras both provide services I could perform for myself, but since they have more experience and better connections, it makes sense to hire and pay them to improve my own financial condition. That doesn’t mean I have to like them or their business model. I believe the term is ‘Necessary Evil.’
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
It's not even remotely comparable to the music business
Unless you’re comparing what he does to what managers, agents, and entertainment lawyers do for the artists.
For one, Boras doesn’t end up taking most of the profits, the way that music labels do, nor does he exploit his clients. He gets them the most money he can – and takes a cut off the top.
It also isn’t comparable in that players have other options, unlike musicians did in years past. If players didn’t think that his services were worth it, they would simply represent themselves. But that happens very rarely – you almost never see it. Things have changed now, but in the past if musicians didn’t think labels were worth it, they simply didn’t get famous.
Boras promotes his own mystique because, frankly, it gives him leverage to do so. Leverage to find new clients, leverage when bargaining. He’s a shrewd negotiator with incredible acumen.
For what it’s worth, Boras does an incredible job with his lesser-known clients. Just take a look at the work he’s done getting large bonuses for drafted players out of college and high school, players who will sacrifice some of the better years of their lives for something that odds are will never earn them more than $20k per year.
Should have probably compared Boras to a band manager type.
But it’s still someone else making money off of my (or the players’) talents. I have a problem with that. I understand it allows me (the players) to focus on my primary job, and it is probably the best option within the current system, but it is still lecherous at its core.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
Movie stars do the same thing
Their agents get the most for them as well. For instance, Jack Nicholson took a small guaranteed salary when he played The Joker in exchange for a percentage of the box office sales. He made a FORTUNE off that flick. Also, he has in every contract that he does not do filming during an L.A. Lakers game.
To quote Michael Corleone, “It’s not personal Sonny, it’s strictly business”
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
I just don't see how it's "lecherous"
Are you saying that the players aren’t making more money off of the teams due to Boras’ talents?
Do you honestly think that they’d be netting more money if Boras wasn’t their agent?
Sure he’s making money of their talents. But they’re completely returning the favor.
Not to mention...
…that having one agent represent a bloc of talent can lend a little extra something to negotiations.
I'm saying I would like to see people play the game because they love the game.
Not for oodles of cash. And lots of guys do. You’ve never heard of most of them. Neither have I. They eke out a living for a few years in the minors, and eventually retire and get normal jobs. Some other guys we have heard of are making oodles of cash because they’re so good that people just throw money at them. But anytime you mix business into what should be a labor of love, somebody somewhere is going to figure out how to line their pockets. Not because they enjoy the game, but because they just want to make a buck. And that’s wrong.
If Scott Boras and I sat down and he convinced me that everything he does is because he loves sports and wants to make the sports and the players better, I’d be okay with him. But his actions indicate that he is in it for the money, which is why he’s so good at it. It’s a paradox brought on by the combination of a physical art form and the bottom line. There are no easy solutions, and I’m not naive enough to think that the system will somehow reorganize itself based on this argument. That doesn’t mean I have to like the current situation.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
But just because they want to maximize their payday...
…doesn’t mean they don’t play because they love the game. And all Scott Boras does is represent talent. He does the research to get his talent the best contracts they can, so THEY can play for the love of the game and not have to worry about negotiations. Ever see a player slump because they have something major happening in their lives? What if every player took it upon themselves to negotiate their own deals? Now they’re responsible for comparing their own stats to other current and historical players, study up on contracts that have been offered his peers in recent years, get a sense of how MLB’s market share has changed over years, determine what kind of influence he has in putting butts in the seats….
Yeah, I wouldn’t want my players going through that. Thank God for agents. They keep their talents’ stress at a minimum.
Can't they have their cake and charge millions for you to watch them eat it too?
The idealism is refreshing, but honestly, in that scenario where does all the money go?
Baseball grossed over $6B in revenues last year. Who should get that money if not the players? After all, that’s who we paid all that money to watch.
Does their motivation matter as long as the product is good anyway?
To go back to your earlier analogy, does it matter whether a musician wrote a song out of pure love for the art, or whether they wrote it to pay for their vacation home in Cabo? As a listener, it’s irrelevant, so long as the song is good.
Also, I'd like to think that passion would show.
How many successful musicians/sport players started down that path just because they wanted to make a killing? Without that special sumthin’ sumthin’, would they have substantial success? Case in point, American Idol.
Well, maybe they could roll back ticket prices.
Or sell jerseys for a little less. I agree with you that the players deserve to be rewarded. My problem is the scale, the amounts of cash involved. It’s gotten too rich, IMHO.
And their motivation may not matter to you. As a listener, no, the reason for writing the song is irrelavant. As a FAN, however, I want my rock stars to write songs because they have life experiences that move them to express themselves in such a manner. Not because they have a boat payment to make. Yes, it’s idealistic. Yes, I may be the only person who feels this way. But doing anything just for money starts you down a long, slippery slope. Pretty soon you’re endorsing crap products and selling your catalog to support your habits. Make your living off of your talents, and don’t screw anybody over (including yourself) if you can help it.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
But why would they?
If the demand is there to justify a good’s price, why would any business charge less? Substantially cut the price, and that’s less revenue, which means either organizations will face downsizing (“Sorry, Jimmy. Your daddy’s going to be out of work because the company wanted to charge $10 less per jersey.”) or employees will have to take a pay cut. Considering how spastic the MLBPA has been when it comes to such minor things as an unemployed Barry Bonds, I can only imagine the reaction that would come of this.
There’s no job worth doing that isn’t worth paying to have done. And when you consider the magnitude of MLB, a global franchise that is worth billions of dolalrs in revenue per year, not to mention supplemental marketing value, the superstar’s salary, as absurdly high as it may seem, is paid to scale.
This argument is made assuming MLB is at, or just below, market equilibrium.
Let me say
I don’t think the money should go to the owners either. I don’t complain about how much they make. They are the ones bringing in the money so they should get the majority of it. I could understand Tex wanting to go for the most money if his options included only the Nats, Os, and Royals. But when a team like the Red Sox, who are championship contenders every year offer you a pretty lucrative contract, I don’t understand why you wouldn’t jump all over it.
I understand that he wants to play for his hometown teams and that’s great. But he’s not going to turn them into contenders by himself. And his contract would most likely handcuff those teams. I see the Nats play all the time. I don’t even know how they can begin to afford him. They have Marlins type attendance. There best chance is too develop young talent and try to win that way, like the Rays. The O’s could possibly put together a solid team, but with the Red Sox, Yankees and now Rays dominating that division, I don’t see them contending for awhile either.
Imagine what Albert Pujols will make after 2010...
..if he continues doing what he’s doing. He will finish a 7 YR, $100M contract after the 2010 season when he’ll be only 31.
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
He seems to love STL.
He gave the Cards a RIDICULOUS home town discount last time. If he stays healthy, continues to tear it up, and this recession ends by then, he will no doubt qualify for ARod money
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
Who knows now.
The Tex signing could drag into January with Borass telling numerous lies to jack up Tex’s price.. I have a feeling Anaheim and LA could move forward and sign OF’s. Possibly Burrell to LA and Abreu to Anaheim… Then Borass is left with NY and his imaginary teams bidding on Manny.
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
Milton Bradley
I wonder why Milton Bradley is being so deliberate in choosing a new home. It sounds like he has three legitmate pursuers in Texas, Tampa Bay and Chicago. I’m not sure I would mess around and take my time in this ugly economic environment. Or maybe it is a case that he has yet to receive concrete offer from any of these three teams? The guy is a cancer and truly scary on many levels, but I am of the opinion he is the guy Hendry covets.
there are a lot of factors in play
I don’t think I’ve read anywhere that he’s received a formal offer. Beyond that, if Texas, Tampa and the Cubs are his primary suitors, it might make sense for him to wait. He’s (arguably) the best fit for the Cubs given his ability to play right and his price tag, and he’s probably the best fit for Tampa because of his price tag.
He might be playing those two teams against each other in hopes of getting more money.
Or something completely different could be at work. Who really knows?
I would imagine
…and this is just my guess, that like Dunn he’s probably waiting for Tex to go off the board, in case any of the losers in that race are interested in his services.
Probably
no formal offer from the Cubs…
SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!
Let's hope not.
Just say “No” … to Bradley.
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
For one thing...
… it’s now getting close to holiday time. Like the rest of the country, a lot of baseball front offices are closing up and people going to be with their families.
As are, very likely, agents and players. I’m guessing no big deals will be announced in the next week or so.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I think
at the end of the day, this is a lot of bluffing going on. The Red Sox won’t give the highest bid, so Boras is probably trying to see if they’ll match the high bid, likely the Nationals. At the end of the day, I think Tex wants to go East, and I think he wants to win, so I still think he’ll end up in Boston. It’s important to note how Anaheim is already looking at other options more seriously.
not worth it's own fanpost, but...
Vernon Wells. make it happen, Jim.
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/34301
I know he’s not lefty, but maybe Pie, Cedeno, Hart, and someone like Ryan Flaherty/Starlin Lake/Junior Castro could make it happen with his contract and the BJays financial situation. Plus, they need to move Rios to CF to make room for Snider, Pie can back him up, and they need a SS in the worst way (not that Cedeno is great shakes, but he’s better than John McDonald, plus a projectable prospect.) Dunn would be fine by me as well, but a true centerfielder/middle of the order guy would be nice…
Wells has a strange contract.
He doesn’t get paid much next year, and “just” 12.5 M in ‘10, but then gets paid 22 M or so the remaining four years. It’s backloading in the extreme.
Wells also fell off a cliff defensively last year.
If you believe he can return to defensive form, maybe the Cubs could toy with swapping Soriano for Wells, opening LF for Dunn, but you end up with some severe contract problems down the road. Plus, I’m not 20 M confident in Wells’ talent in 2014.
I wouldn’t give up the youngsters for him.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Angels are OUT of Mark Texiera chase
Or so says Ken Rosenthal, who has proven to be less than stellar in his reporting.
Me thinks Mark Texiera is announced as newest member of the Red Sox by Tuesday. Texiera will accept “less money” to sign with Boston so owner John Henry comes out looking like a smart guy. The real winners will be Scott Boras and Texiera.
Wasn't Rosenthal the same guy who said Peavy would be a Cub two weeks ago?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
He's also the same guy that reported...
…the A’s were going to get Holliday
…the Big Unit’s days were numbered with DBacks
…the Astros were going to sign Hampton
…the A’s were out of the Furcal sweepstakes
…the Dodgers were going to sign Blake
…the Yankees were going to sign CC
…the Yankees were out in front to sign Burnett
…and Pettitte will sign with the Yankees
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
obviously a man who recognizes
that PITCHING is KING.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
I'm very bored today
So I wanted to revisit crazy scenarios. I preface this by saying I’m just messing around.
So … Boras hints at a mystery team? What if we were the mystery team telling Boras to keep quiet as we need to setup other things first? It’s looking like 20 million or so will net Tex. And c’mon, Chicago’s not that much further from the DC area than Boston (I know, have traveled both routes by car before). And furthermore, Tex will likely fly anyways, so no big deal.
If we take the 133 and 145 rumors, we have around 12 million or so free. Certainly, Tex fills the big bat void. That puts us within 8 million or so of the AAV for Tex. I offer two routes to make this happen:
Route A – The easiest one:
Deal Derrek Lee to clear room. c’mon, he wants to head home and the Angels have an opening. Clear salary, get some pieces in return, add the Tex man, and ta da. There’s that game changer in the middle of the lineup
Route B – The bigger it is … the more unlikely it is.
Let’s see -
Step A – Deal Mark DeRosa. We know a lot of teams would jump in. That’s 5.5 million off the books, pushing us to potentially around 17.5 free.
Step B – Deal Jason Marquis. I think we might have to handle a bigger burden, but let’s say we eat around 6 million, giving us 3-4 million in savings. I’ve got to think that’s somewhat doable as the market settles
Ta da. 20 or so million for the Tex man, but wait! There’s the Lee fella. So, in one fell swoop, we also ship Lee out, but this time, we can focus a bit more on getting a return instead of just looking to save.
Wait, this wouldn’t be a colossal waste of time without adding a 4th and a 5th step. We also have around 10 million or so free.
Hello, big unit. MY oh my … Sweet Lou has his 2nd lefty.
Hello, trade prospects from previous three trades for a young cheap lefty OF. We’d have some chips to play with. Let’s go with my favorite, Hermida.
So, a possible lineup
Theriot
Fontenot
Ramirez
Texeira
Soriano
Hermida
Soto
Fukudome
Again, I was bored. If I get bored enough later, maybe I’ll add some names to the mix.
I'm stunned...
With all these moves, Theriot is still starting at SS?
Interesting ideas, but only possible if Lee has already blessed a move to the Angels and I thought I read somewhere that he still lives in FL.
Who else is available?
I’m not all that enthused about dealing prospects for Jack Wilson. Nor am I all that enthused about spending big on Orlando Cabrera, although his glove would be nice. If the market settles a bit, sure, maybe you explore Cabrera. Can’t think of any other options that seem like a legit possibility at this stage in the offseason that I like (for example, rumors suggest Jason Bartlett is available, but I think his glove is overrated).
+1
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
You all have had your fun now..............let;s get back to this world. A little
reality if you please.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
+1
reality is boring. i mean it … this hot stove season, outside of a few spots here or there (mainly revolving around the Braves with Furcal and Burnett (and them missing) and few other moves) has been boring.
I'm all for hot stove action too, but you have to admit this one is out
there, wayyyy out there. I like a lot of the names, but any discussion starting with Tex coming to the Cubs is sheer folly. I would at least like for the discussion to be grounded in a miniscule amount of reality.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
of course i admit it's out there
i said as much at the top of the post.
ok, you're excused
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Let's ask this, then -
Is it less “out there” to suggest that the Cubs could trade Soriano to the Angels now that the Halos are out on Manny and out on Teixeira?
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
yes. What do you think the odds are of the Angels taking on Soriano's
contract? 100 to 1? 1,000,000 to one? If you were the Angels, would you go after him? At his age and dollar amount? Just askin’.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
i'd say yes
They just resigned Juan Rivera at decently hefty prices, meaning there’s some expectation there. they still have the costly gm jr., torii, vlad, along with spot guys like figgins and willits. I don’t see them perusing the Soriano aisle.
That said, nothing is impossible, although I think this is unlikely. The problem, though, is to make something work, we’d have to eat a huge chunk of money and likely take on the GM Jr. contract. Those two alone aren’t all that bad … but the problem becomes that we would create an additional offensive hole in the lineup with less capability to address it.
Answering both toonsterwu and wmhg
First – why wouldn’t they take on Soriano’s contract when they gave a very similar contract to Torii Hunter, an inferior player, last year. They’ve got cash to spend and they like the kind of player Soriano is. I can look at them from the outside and say, “They need OBP,” but I’m not sure the Angels look at themselves that way. I’m not convinced we have to eat any of the contract when the team just had a 8/160 offer on the table.
Second, the LA Times thinks they’ll look at Dye, Konerko, Burrell, etc. so Soriano might look attractive in that company.
Do we create an offensive hole? Not if we eat none of the contract and then sign Adam Dunn to play LF. Dunn fits our lineup better than Soriano, is younger, likely cheaper, and the biggest negative to signing him is “We don’t want both him and Soriano in the same OF.”
And this is all w/o considering what we might get back in the deal.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
by DGU on Dec 22, 2008 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What makes you think that the Angels will like
Soriano’s contract if we don’t? They have the same video of him that we have. He’s a streaky hitter that can put up big numbers, but has not come close to performing big in the clutch. If you pay a player the money we pay him, you expect him to deliver in the playoffs. That’s why everyone wants to dump him. The Angels haven’t been existing in a vaccuum. If I took on a contract like his, I would expect some salary relief in return. I really don’t think they would take on his contract for a couple of low-paid prospects.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Soriano's contract is not really as bad as it's often made out to be.
Compare it to Vernon Wells’ or Torii Hunter’s – Soriano is a better hitter than both of them. Soriano’s contract is big. It’s long. But that’s what you pay to get a hitter of his caliber. The Angels and other teams are lining up now to pay more for Manny and Teixeira than we will pay Soriano. Granted, those two are better hitters than Soriano, but the point is that once they are off the market, Soriano may look to several teams to be a better hitter than the guys who remain on the market (Burrell, Abreu, etc.).
Also, the main reasons Cub fans don’t like Soriano (fails in playoffs, not the lead-off hitter we want now, and “too much” RH power on this club) are not issues for other clubs. Take Atlanta, for example. They need to get more RH and are more interested in getting back to the playoffs. They also have money to spend, and just missed a lead-off hitter.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Well
Vernon Wells and Torii Hunter are both better all around ballplayers than Alfonso Soriano. If you polled a room full of baseball executives and managers who they like the most then I’ll bet the ranch Soriano comes in a distant third in that horse race.
Soriano is immovable. Especially in this economic climate. I can’t think of a single team in baseball who would be excited to acquire Soriano. Even if Soriano was paid half of what he currently makes.
Just because Betty and Veronica are already taken, doesn't mean Bertha looks any better.
[ and please accept my apologies to all the Bertha’s out there – nothing personal, just trying to make a point]
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
angels
i don’t think they’ll ship erick aybar off in any deal this offseason, as his glove matters to them. too much. as for wood, i doubt a lee trade would be able to net wood in any deal. That leaves Sean Rodriguez, who I’m not huge on and I don’t love his glove that much.
Maicer Izturis?
He basically is what Lou wants Theriot to be.
Also, I’m not sure that the Angels wouldn’t give up Wood for Lee; they don’t seem to have plans to use him. I’d be more skeptical that Wood would sniff playing time on the Cubs.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
i forgot about izturis earlier
he does have a good glove at short, at least, in limited opportunities. i’d be okay with it as a possibility to look at.
As for Wood, if they don’t deal for Lee, I think he’ll get a look at 3rd or 1st, with Figgins perhaps going to a role he’s better suited as – a backup. Okay, a bit harsh, but let’s say, spot starter to be nice.
And I would love a million dollars and for Scarlett Johanssen to fall in love with me, but the odds of
either my scenario or yours happening are slim and none. And slim just left town.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
But that doesn’t mean it is the right baseball move. Cubs have screaming need to add a left-handed bat in the middle of this lineup and 1st base is a place where you can do that. Also, Derrek Lee is clearly in decline phase. While Lee can still serve a valuable role (presence, defense, and hitting), I’m not inclined to watch any more of his deterioration while the Cubs keep insisting he shall be the # 3 hitter in the lineup. Lee is a #6 hitter at this stage.
Adam Dunn is a worse 1B than he is a RF.
And I don’t think he would last long there with our infield.
If we want Dunn, we should stick him in LF and move Soriano to RF.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
I'm not a cheeleader for Derek Lee. He's no sacred cow. I just don't know if
you get fair-market for him at this point. I will be the first to admit that Hendry may have stepped on his joint by signing so many back-loaded deals and painting himself into a corner, but the current climate seems to indicate that getting a LH bat like Dunn is going to be difficult. The budget won’t allow him to just go out and sign a big name and the trade prospects are limited.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think the problem with Lee
is not his trade value. I think it’s that he won’t waive his NTC. He wants to be a Cub.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Well...
I agree with your points. The trump card however is that Jim Hendry loves Derrek Lee and won’t trade him. I disagree with Hendry. At time Hendry is too much subjective and much less objective in his assessment of players. Derrek Lee is example.
If that's the case, he's wrong. When a GM allows personal feeling for
a player affect his dealings for that player, he’s risking his job. I hope that’s not the case here. Derek Lee is a nice guy and he has had some bad luck, but other teams will pay him to play for them. If it’s in the teams best intrest to move him and it can be worked out, it should happen
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
It's okay.
There is only conjecture that Hendry won’t trade Lee because he loves and overvalues him. Could easily be that it’s not worth trying because Lee won’t waive his NTC.
In fact,
Bruce Miles said it was that Lee wouldn’t waive his NTC earlier in the year.
And here’s the kicker for “BLou,” apparently, Hendry was considering trading Lee and LOU convinced him not to try it.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
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