Bleed Cubbie Blue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Sounder At Heart for Seattle Sounders Fans!

Rockies considering Marquis

Rosenthal just posted that the Rockies are considering trading for Marquis or signing Tim Redding, http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8963778/Teixeira-will-get-his-payday,-but-is-he-really-worth-it?. The mention is in the Around the horn section.

I'd be all for trading Marquis, but I'm not sure who would become the Cubs' No. 5 starter. The obvious option is Marshall, but that would seem to create some issues in the bullpen, where Neal Cotts is the only other lefty.

Presumably, the Cubs would get at least $3 million or $4 million in savings from the deal. Should the Cubs use that money to sign Randy Johnson? Should they sign another lefty reliever and give Marshall the No. 5 spot? Should they use the money to up the offer to Milton Bradley or another right fielder? Any other suggestions?

And, please, don't suggest a Hermida or Kubel trade. Might be great ideas, but let's focus on things that are being discussed as possiblities by people OTHER THAN BCB posters.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs  |  Comment 130 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I know this got shot down the other day

However I like the idea of acquiring Johnny Damon. Trading Marquis would free up the money necessary to pay for the remaining $13 mil (IIRC). He’s fills our lefty bat requirements. He’s got some power, hitting 17 hr’s last year in 143 games. He’s still got some good wheels, stealing 29 bags last year. You’ve also got yourself a good leadoff man, .375 OBP.

I know his big down fall is his arm. However he’d be better to have out there, than Abreau, Milton, or Dunn. But at this point I’d much rather have a one year rental in Damon, than signing the aforementioned three.

If the Yankees do sign Manny, Damon becomes very expendable.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Damon?

Ugh. 35 years old and starting to decline. No thanks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 19, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Starting to decline?

Can you back that up with stats? His 2008 was pretty solid.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and

he’s a bonafide lefty leadoff hitter with alot of playoff experience. i love johnny damon and would love to have him.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally SOMEONE agrees with me!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I brought this up b4

and got the same response. under no circumstance do I want abreu or bradley.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with ya

That’s a main reason I want Damon. If things don’t work out with Damon, he’s gone in one year and we can go after someone else. The aforementioned names are three year marriages…..minimum!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Al

is the person I just cant understand. he’s all for signing kevin millar for clubhouse presence and too loosen things up. damon is an original idiot himself but dont want him. this would allow dome to roam right in which we need. give us a true leadoff hitter and a clubhouse guy.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He said Damon is on the decline

I’m waiting for stats to back that up.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 6:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps "starting to decline" is a bit much.

At 35, I’d worry about him having a sudden decline, for a lot of dough that could be used for midseason acquisitions.

He never was a great outfielder and he’s not going to be getting any better.

Why is everyone heading after the old, expensive guys? You want to spend money, sign Adam Dunn, at least he’s younger and could be moved to 1B after D-Lee’s contract is up.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 19, 2008 6:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True

I have said rather than spend the money on the aforementioned three (as I’m going to refer to them as), I would rather see us stand pat until the trade deadline.

If we dump Marquis, Damon becomes much less expensive. Moreover he’s only got one year left on his contract.

Damon’s outfielding (as I mentioned earlier) isn’t great. However it’s because of his arm. He takes good routes to the balls. He’s the ying to Sori’s yang. If you had to choose between the aforementioned three and Damon in the outfield, wouldn’t you choose Damon?

Plus he brings good playoff experience.

I’m not stopping until I convince you!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I had forgotten cubsluver's point about Damon being one of the "idiots".

That’s a point in his favor.

Outfielding is an issue, particularly if you then get Dunn. But I guess you’re saying you’d platoon Damon with Johnson in CF and move Fukudome back to RF? He’d be a better player that way.

Food for thought. Never let it be said that I won’t change my mind if there’s a good argument put in front of me.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 19, 2008 8:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

it just seems

were gonna sign a OF bat. All of which have defensive liabilities and are seemingly gonna be expensive. someone summed it up in another post by something along the lines of why get into a marriage?? damon has as many flaws as the other candidates but he’s a FA after 1 year.

another issue I have is we promised dome right field and gave him a big contract meaning were likely stuck with him one way or another. with right field being a extremely hard defensive position anyway, by getting damon we would be able to let him him play where he wants and get great defense.

damon could platoon with reed and both could bat leadoff thus solving another issue. I’ve never read anything that suggest him being anything but a model teammate and given his playoff and world series experience it seems to be a great 1yr match.

maybe after next year we could either resign him or find a better all around fit for our need. that would also give us another year to figure out whether dome makes the needed adjustments to USA baseball in which I think he will.

I dont see any reason the yankees wouldnt explore a deal for him with us assuming the entire salary. they have a leadoff hitter in jeter. a left fielder in matsui. a cf in melky or cameron if the rumored deal goes through and I still see them resigning abreu. I dont have a clue what we would have to give up in terms of compensation,but I dont see it being a whole lot.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 9:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Damon is a fair plan B

He is considerably better in defense than Milton Head Game, Bobby Aboot and Adam Dumb, he is not a powerhouse and probably would be better suited as a #2 hitter instead of lead off and in Wrigley he could play CF leaving Fukudome in RF.

He has leadership qualities which is the other factor, the presence that the Cubs not only can win but should.

If this is tied to trading Marquis in some way that is good and creative.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 20, 2008 11:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Besides

I think Damon would play better if he could bring back the hair and beard.

Andy R.

by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2008 12:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

old,expensie guys

are all thats out there really. I would rather have a 1 yr player over the long term guys. maybe in a year or so there are better options out there.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 7:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs also wanted him when...

He initially became a free agent from the BoSox

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Dec 19, 2008 11:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And he's in the last year of his contract.

So his age shouldn’t be much of a factor. Abreau is 35 also.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Abreu than Bradley

Not nearly as much as an injury risk.

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Dec 19, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Abreu played 13 more games than Damon in '08

Thats a non-factor

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I said Abreu over Bradley..

..NOT Damon

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Dec 19, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My bad

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not Kenny Lofton ?

Dude Damon is old, there are better options out there.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 19, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lofton is older.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 19, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know Al

I was going for the sarcasm effect.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 20, 2008 6:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's 35

We’d have him for one year. He was good last year. If there’s a good argument against, I will listen to that. But just saying he’s old isn’t really a good one when it hasn’t affected him yet.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 10:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why's he expendale

if they get Manny?? Matsui’s been hurt, so can’ rely on him.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 20, 2008 11:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you think he hasn't "lost a step or two" in the OF

you are mistaken. His bat leaves me wanting more and if the Cubs are in the market for a LH OF slugger, this means they are willing to spend the money necessary to get someone better than Damon. So as for the argument against, why would the Cubs grab an aging declining OF when they have all but been given the green light on a younger and likely more productive one?

Damon isn’t the worst OF out there but the Cubs can do better.

Kwa...Ki...Sur...Pee...Nee...Ku?

by Kinky Reggae on Dec 20, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

not

with the likes of dunn,bradley and abreu for 2-3 years.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 20, 2008 7:09 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!

Sure the Cubs could do better, but the problem is who. I’m not convinced signing Dunn, Milton, or Abreu is better than having Damon as a one year rental.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 21, 2008 1:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we need

beimel. our bullpen is rather shaky

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Shark, Gregg, and Marmol = shaky?

I disagree. That’s a pretty solid 7th, 8th, and 9th right there, with Marshall/Cotts in a needed lefty/lefty matchup. The money, if Marquis is traded, would likely be used to sign Bradley/Abreu/Dunn. Personally, I’d take Abreu of the three but I know there are differing opinions on the subject.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But if Marquis is traded

Then Marshall probably fills the #5 spot. And no I don’t trust Cotts. Beimel would be a great signing if you ask me.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Gaudin could be a starter, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 19, 2008 5:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True

Gaudin could also pick another fight with a dumpster.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

haha

that’s a Zambrano-esque injury to say the least.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

yes shaky

gregg walks alot of hitters,shark is still very raw, and marmol will be in a new role. we need another rock solid reliever. besides those 3 the others dont make me real comfortable.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But if your starter gives you a quality start

that’s 6 innings, only three left. With our starters, that should be a common occurence.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what team are you watching???

harden rarely goes 6. marshall will get pounded. you gonna throw those 3 out there everyday?? no way! we need a another bonafide lefty reliever.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm watching my team, the Cubs

forget Harden. He’s not going to go 8 innings everyday, I know that. But Big Z, Dempster, and Lilly usually go at least 6. Marshall might not even be the fifth starter, but in his few starts he usually went quite deep into games. And you’re forgetting about our other relievers that are quite capable, like Gaudin and Guzman.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bullpen....

I saw last year depended almost solely on carlos marmol. now he is our 9th inning guy. shark is still very very raw. gregg is shaky and the others are downhill from there. you cant be too proactive in acquiring solid relivers.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

but I think if Marquis is traded, spending that money on a lefty bopper fills a more glaring hole than another reliever. Even though I didn’t agree with it, Kerry Wood being allowed to walk shows that the organization feels the bullpen is in good shape too.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Laugh if you will,

but I think Weurtz can be a pretty solid seventh or eighth inning guy.

by dakoose on Dec 19, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Kool Aid anyone?

"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields

by calicubfan on Dec 19, 2008 6:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping he's talking about some new guy

Weurtz huh? I hope he doesn’t suck like Wuertz.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I would love to add his LH arm in the pen.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 19, 2008 10:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i've been holding my breath

on Beimel. I worry a bit that he’s waiting to find out whether the Angels resign big Tex.

by Cubinator on Dec 21, 2008 6:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying Beimel isn't a great reliever

I just think that if Marquis is traded, that freed up income would be put to much better use getting that lefty bopper that we all need.

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

wouldnt that be great

if we could trade marquis and use the savings to sign randy johnson to a one year deal. go from marquis to randy johnson? yes please.

bring up felix.

by kylejo on Dec 19, 2008 5:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

*crosses fingers

this would make me happy

by Cubinator on Dec 21, 2008 6:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sean Marshall be just fine as a #5

No need for a decrepit Randy Johnson.

Big Smooth be just fine.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 19, 2008 5:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

ill take the guy

with the perfect game on his resume who last year went:

184ip 173k 3.91 era 1.23 whip

come on, big randall johnson up on the mound, bringing that nasty slider down and in, getting to watch batters chase that shit all game? itd be great entertainment if we get randy johnson.

bring up felix.

by kylejo on Dec 19, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well, he is something like 14-0

against the Cubs in his career…

"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly

by ambrosiadreams on Dec 19, 2008 5:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

more likely to get

the guy with a bad back who stays on the DL and wants to be paid like it was 10 years ago.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget though

that Marshall hasn’t shown that he can handle a season in the starting rotation without hitting the DL. I’m not necessarily in favor of Johnson but I do prefer seeing Marshall as long man/#6 right now.

by rlpete on Dec 19, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Tell me, in the last five years,

how many seasons did Johnson have in which he pitched less than thirty games? Just one. And since 2000, he has had only two seasons in which injuries played a role. The “Randy Johnson is injury-prone” thing is way overplayed. He’s old and could go down, but odds are he won’t.

by dakoose on Dec 19, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldnt bet those odds

at that age and that back.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 7:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're right...

All I know is that power pitchers — Ryan; Clemens; Seaver — when they are done they are DONE.

I’ll eat my words if he lights it up, for us or for someone else.

I think it’s too much of a risk.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 19, 2008 5:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

all im saying is

it doesn’t look like “he’s done” when you look at the numbers.

bring up felix.

by kylejo on Dec 19, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He's far from done.

Considering he was better than Z last year, I don’t see how anyone can say signing Johnson is a bad idea.

by dakoose on Dec 19, 2008 6:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

he would make a good signing. At his age, I wouldn’t want a multiyear deal obviously, but I think he can be a very productive plug in starter for a year. Plus, it gives us another lefty arm. Everyone knows our lineup needs lefty bats, but it would be nice to have another lefty starter while we are at it.

In another quote attributed to him while coaching for the 1962 Mets, Hornsby was asked how well he thought he could hit the current crop of pitchers if he were playing today, to which he replied "I guess I'd hit about .280 or .290". When asked why he'd hit for such a low average, Hornsby replied "Well, I'm 66 years old, what do you expect?"

by SotoRiot on Dec 20, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you don't give Marshall a chance soon...

His mad skillz are going to go. You gotta develop the young guys. Marshall would be a great dark horse. I say let Gaudin, Guzman, and Marshall battle it out.

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Dec 19, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Also saw posted on MLBTR

that Marquis was among the many options the Mets are considering, as they want to acquire 2 starters- including a back of the rotation innings eater- that’s where Marquis comes in

by philadelphiacub on Dec 19, 2008 5:40 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Oh please Mets take him

Minaya: “Is Marquis available?”

Hendry: “Who are you offering?”

Minaya: “Well, we got this guy….”

Hendry: “I’ll take him!!!”

by McRipper on Dec 19, 2008 5:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Randy Johnson

might just kill himself with the low dugouts at Wrigley.

"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07

by RynoHoF on Dec 19, 2008 5:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Sign Randy Johnson

and let Marshall apprentice for one more year

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 19, 2008 6:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Nice idea.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 19, 2008 10:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Give Colorado Marquis, Pie, and Vitters....

for Brad Hawpe.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Dec 19, 2008 6:54 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Think we could get him w/o Vitters?

I bet its possible

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 19, 2008 7:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

give them Marmol.

by rlpete on Dec 20, 2008 9:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No Marmol

I don’t think there is any way we should give up Marmol. Save for a few hiccups, he has been great. And, considering our bullpen woes in the past (Bob Howry anyone?), it would be nice to have a reliable back end of our bullpen. We started to get a taste of that with Woody.

Hawpe is a great pitcher, but uI think we give Marmol a chance and see if he can handle the closer role.

In another quote attributed to him while coaching for the 1962 Mets, Hornsby was asked how well he thought he could hit the current crop of pitchers if he were playing today, to which he replied "I guess I'd hit about .280 or .290". When asked why he'd hit for such a low average, Hornsby replied "Well, I'm 66 years old, what do you expect?"

by SotoRiot on Dec 20, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

don't quote me on this but...

I think Hawpe swings a pretty decent bat, too.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 20, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

even if you like randy johnson.....

you’d have to eat 4-6 million of marquis’ contract and then give another 8 or so to johnson so randy johnson becomes a 12-14 million dollar pitcher……..why not use the extra money on a RF/LH bat and just deal with marquis as your 5th starter for one more year.

by cubsmania on Dec 19, 2008 6:55 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Because

getting rid of Marquis means 50% of the discussion on BCB would be eliminated. Theriot would be shaking in his boots because he automatically becomes public enemy number 1.

I’m with ya though. If we get rid of Marquis, it’s to free up money for a bat. Marquis is a good number 5, why risk it on someone else?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because

If you trade Marquis and pay 6 Mill AND sign a RF/LH its gonna cost upwards of 16M

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 19, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If were trading marquis to free up money for a bat

we would replace marquis with an in-house option (marshall, hart, samardzija, etc…). To me it just doesn’t make too much sense to trade marquis and eat some of his salary so we can pay randy johnson to be our 5th starter

by cubsmania on Dec 19, 2008 8:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see...

But RJ was pretty good last year, I think it could be worth it on a one year deal, so no long term financial commitment

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 19, 2008 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True

if he was like he was in the second half of last year it would be worth it. Personally, I don’t think he’ll repeat that and I worry about his back issues and age….but thats just my hunch.

by cubsmania on Dec 19, 2008 9:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Shark won't be a starter next year

WAAAAY to early in his career to even think about it

"If I were playing third base and my mother were rounding third with the run that was going to beat us, I'd trip her. Oh, I'd pick her up and brush her off and say, 'Sorry, Mom,' but nobody beats me." ~ Leo Durocher

by Musicdude10 on Dec 19, 2008 11:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the point in his career matters

Plenty of rookies come up as starters.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 20, 2008 7:35 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True

but he is still learning and way too inconsistent to be a starter right now.

by rlpete on Dec 20, 2008 9:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He is definitely inconsistent

Of course, that’s not good in a set-up role, either, but it’s easier to move him from that. Essentially, I’m agreeing with you.

He’s got to learn to throw strikes more often.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 20, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eh Damon I want Bradley

When Bradley is healthy, nobody produces like him except for Adam Dunn. It’s either Dunn or Bradley.

by lexmarklover on Dec 19, 2008 7:05 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 19, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

keyword

“when”

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 19, 2008 7:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bradley

could also bring some attitude to the ballclub…….we don’t want big distractions but I think it may help this team once in a while to get fired up.

by cubsmania on Dec 19, 2008 8:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Marquis to the Rockies for a box of balls

and then screw trade with the Pirates for Nate McLouth.

"It's probably similar to being in New York City and having a cab driver behind you and you're driving too slow. It's not the most pleasant thing."

Barry Sanders, on what defensive backs who played against him compared him to.

by Jettero2112 on Dec 19, 2008 8:09 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

After we trade Marquis...

We can finally get the Peavy trade done!

by illini23 on Dec 19, 2008 9:42 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

More likely...

… if Marquis is traded, that’s clearing payroll space for an OF acquisition.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 20, 2008 5:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's probably right.

Though it might also be that freeing up that salary space leaves us open for either/both options. (In other words, removing Marquis’s salary helps us with an OF acquisition…but also helps in the event the Cubs did want to go down the Peavy track…)

As an aside…Since the Peavy deal was announced dead, I find myself kind of bummed that didn’t/might not happen…which is strange ‘cause I wasn’t really gung-ho about the deal beforehand. I guess I have both sides of buyer’s remorse.

I do like that Hendry knew when to draw the line though. And in that sense, I hope he’s thought through getting rid of a solid #5 pitcher in Marquis. Particularly with our injury potential, I’m more and more worried that we may be shorthanded on dependable pitching come next year…

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 20, 2008 6:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

damon

i remember damon saying he,d love to hit in a lineup with lee/ramirez..i like marshall in the pen .he,s proven he cant handle being in the rotation.if we trade marquis expect the 5th guy to be a revolving door next year.

by NOMAR on Dec 20, 2008 7:07 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Appearently Dunn is telling people that he would do anything to come here

and we are his first choice. If we could get him at say one year 8 million i would do it and try him in Right. Or Soriano back in Center or Right… Dunn is an animal.

A lineup of
Soriano
CF
Ramirez
Dunn
Soto
Lee
2B
Theriot is pretty good

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 20, 2008 11:58 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Would doing anything include playing SS?

He doesn’t have much less range than Theriot, and Renteria would think twice about decking the double-play partner . . .

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 20, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be moot

Dunn would never be able to get to the bag fast enough to worry about getting a double-play broken up.

The worst beer I had was pretty good.

by Worf on Dec 20, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who's your source?

Would love to see Dunn in Chicago.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 20, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

mlbtraderumors.com

has a link or source.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 20, 2008 3:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

interesting

Just read the item on mlbtraderumors. My guess is that if the Cubs don’t get Bradley, they will get Dunn. And considering that Dunn’s defense is about the same as Abreu’s AND he’s about six years younger, I think he would be the better bet in right. That is, if the money and years on deals with either Dunn or Abreu are about the same.

I guess if we put up with Uncle Cliffy and Murton in right in 2007, we could put up with Dunn there in 2009?

by elgato on Dec 20, 2008 5:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd actually LOVE to see Damon on the cubs...

…original idiot, has played in pressure cookers in NY and Bos, and as such can handle the pressure of playing for the Cubs. I know he’s old, but seriously, we have a team of mentally fragile players. If I’m Hendry, I recognize this fact and go after guys like Damon, Abreu, etc. Yeah, they’re old, but we HAVE to consider the mental/intangible aspects that such players may bring us. This team of mental weaklings don’t have what it takes as currently constructed.
Wouldn’t the Yanks listen to some sort of Damon/Derrek Lee trade? I know I’m dreaming, but I do that kind of a deal built around those players, and sign Dunn to play 1B. Do that, and now I’m excited.

by reedjohnson on Dec 20, 2008 4:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees already have about 5,000 first basemen.

But what the heck, why not get another one?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 20, 2008 5:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Al, what do you make

of the mlbtraderumors report about Dunn?

by elgato on Dec 20, 2008 5:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I read it.

It’s pretty noncommittal, says “exchanged pleasantries”. If my choice is Bradley or Dunn, obviously, I take Dunn. At least he’s healthy— played 150 or more games six of the last seven years, and the last five in a row.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 20, 2008 5:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I want to know why ...

Kaplan was even asking — beyond the fact that Dunn’s a free agent who kinda/sorta fits the Cubs’ needs.

by elgato on Dec 20, 2008 5:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Good question.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 20, 2008 5:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if Dunn would take ...

a 4-year deal with most of the money on the back end, I say do it. If he’s really that amped about being a Cub, he might be cheaper than Bradley, he’s younger AND he’s healthier. Plus, he’s more of a cleanup hitter.

Put me on the Dunn bandwagon. Hope Hendry and co. are listening/reading!

by elgato on Dec 20, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Another backloaded deal?

Something tells me Hendry can’t do that sort of thing any more.

Try for three years plus a mutual option, that might work.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 20, 2008 6:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get that mutul option thing.

Those almost never get exercised. If the team wants to use it, then odds are it’s not a good move financially for the player, and vise versa.

by dakoose on Dec 20, 2008 11:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking ...

about the issues regarding the Cubs’ 2010 payroll.

And I was thinking something like $7 mill, $7 mill, #13 mill, $13 mill.

by elgato on Dec 21, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd be very happy with that.

Its going to be a BLou Chistmas...

by Tate491 on Dec 21, 2008 8:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Marquis to the Rockies??

For the amount of money he makes?? Even if the Cubs gulp a good bit of that salary?? Aren’t the Rockies aggressively managing payroll??

Sorry, but I don’t see merit behind this latest from Ken Rosenthal.

by BLou on Dec 20, 2008 6:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The Rox want a guy on a one-year deal.

They’re willing to give Redding only one year. They want a back-end stabilizer, but they don’t want to clog one of their 5 rotation spots for more than one year. Marquis at 5 M is really not a bad deal at all.

We are starting to see the light at the end of the Marquis tunnel.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 20, 2008 10:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In your scenario that means Cubs would have to gulp $5 million of salary

Why on earth do we want to do that when the alternative is to hang onto Jason Marquis and let him continue to take the ball every 5th day and log valuable innings? We don’t have a replacement for Marquis. Not without spending money.

Plus the Rockies can certainly sign Tim Redding to something less than what Jason Marquis is owed in 2009.

by BLou on Dec 21, 2008 5:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is the question: Can the Rox sign Redding for a one-year deal?

What will be the down-market pitching pay this year? If the Mets overpay for Redding, it will be very good for Hendry in trading Marquis.

As for your question:

Why on earth do we want to do that when the alternative is to hang onto Jason Marquis and let him continue to take the ball every 5th day and log valuable innings?

Because Lou doesn’t let Marquis log valuable innings. When Marquis is pitching, Lou has an itchy trigger finger for the ‘pen. It’s understandable. Marquis can go from prince to pumpkin in a half-inning. But what that does is put strain on the bullpen. Marquis would earn his money if we used him to soak up innings and save the ‘pen. We don’t use him that way. If you’re going to have a 5th starter go 5 innings, you might as well use Sean Marshall, who can do that with a lower ERA than Marquis.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 21, 2008 7:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Marquis made 28 starts.

He went at least six innings in 16 of them. Further, he went at least five in all but one of the others. I defy you to find a 5th starter in the major leagues last year who did better than that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 21, 2008 8:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying he's a bad 5th starter.

I’m saying he doesn’t log innings for the Cubs. He didn’t make it through the sixth inning in something like 40% of his starts. There are lots of things we can say in his favor. I think you can even say that he should log more innings. Go look at his pitch counts in the game logs – Lou gave him an early hook a lot.

All I’m just saying is that the Cubs, under Lou’s management, won’t use Marquis as an innings eater.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 21, 2008 10:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

big difference

in eating innings and winning ballgames and/or keeping yourself close enough to win a ballgame.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 21, 2008 11:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It depends on how you look at things long-term

an effective innings-eater helps keep the ’pen fresh which helps you win more games long-term. There was a lot of winning-now going on last season that maximized the in-season win total. Did it do much good for the team in October?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 22, 2008 7:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree with your proposition

Jason Marquis is about as good a 5th starter as you will find in baseball. His number one job is to take the ball every 5th day and keep his team in ballgames. He achieved against those job expectations in 2008.

I’m loathe to trade Marquis. One, it will mean that Hendry has to gulp a lot of salary. Two, there is no in-house replacement, therefore meaning that money has to be spent on somebody from outside the organization. Money that Jim Hendry clearly doesn’t have available.

Marquis is a known commodity. On a ballclub with question marks aplenty the last thing we need is to create a question mark in the rotation.

by BLou on Dec 22, 2008 8:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no in-house replacement?

What about Marshall? Or do you mean there’s no in-house solution that doesn’t create other holes?

by elgato on Dec 22, 2008 8:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sean Marshall is not a major league starting pitcher

He lacks the pitching repetoire and the stamina to get the job done every 5th day. His highest and best use is operating out of the bullpen. He can be an asset to this team in that type role.

by BLou on Dec 22, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a pretty strong statement, but the numbers don't bear it out. I 2006,

he started 24 games as a rookie. If he had remained healthy and in the rotation, his starts would have increased to a point to where he was making the number of starts a 4 or 5 starter would. The Cubs added Marquis and Lilly and reduced him to a spot starter/bullpen pitcher. To attribute those numbers to stamina is a stretch. If he had been on a team that needed him in the rotation, is reasonable to assume he would be a reliable starter.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That may be the case. I'm just saying that he has

only been in the league for 3 years with only one as a full-time starter. A player has to be allowed to mature into a position. Some pitchers reach that point right out of the box. He was healthy this year, but only made 7 starts as a fill-in. That had nothing to do with stamina.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Known commodities

The Cubs can certainly go the route of known commodities – Marquis as 5th starter; Reed Johnson as starting CF on Day 5 of the 2009 season, etc.

I’d rather them continue to use limited roles for upside plays, the kind of plays that can move them from a winning ballclub to a championship ballclub.

Known commodities are easy to get at the trade deadline if you need them.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 22, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not without a farm system with which to get known commodities.

"Thank god I threw out my belt & shoelaces."-Bernies Mustache Wax on Evil BCB, 7/31/08

by Bildo1805 on Dec 22, 2008 3:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Bleed Cubbie Blue, the Chicago Cubs blog for the SB Nation, created on February 9, 2005 by Al Yellon
Start posting about the Cubs »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Chicagocubs1914_small
OT: Big-Ten, Vista-Demolition, Bad-News-Bears, Anything-Goes-on-a-Weekend Game Thread
Jake_fox_small
Cubs Should Go After Rich Hill
Chicagocubs1914_small
Last Out to First Pitch – The 2009-10 Offseason IT'S HAPPENING!!!??? Contest
Small
More From the Cubs in Winter Ball
Small
Don't Make the Mistake of Dumping Bradley

Recent FanPosts

Small
Should we trade him, or should we not?
Madduxflag_small
Starlin Castro Vitters etc LIVE Sat night
Helmet_small
Az Fall League Cubs
4167bqf31ml
Five tool player available!
Self-portrait-4_small
This Might Be A Long Shot...
Madduxflag_small
Convention Sold Out
P272649reg_small
OT: Why not name a field after Ernie?
Cubs_sweatrshirt_on_gravestone_small
Vernon Wells - prepping to be a Cub

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Gomez to drink your Brew, Hardy to eat your Twinkie
BP interviews Sam Fuld. Great read!
Who was the best MLB player born on your birthday?
Gary Matthews Jr.
Kerry Wood Says Black Players Got Hate Mail

Recent FanShots

OT: Lidge to have surgery
OT, sexist and imho funny
J.J Putz's Option Declined by Mets.
Does Soriano's defense at 2B really cost more runs than in LF?  He makes a lot fewer errors in LF since misplays and mental mistakes aren't figured into the stats, but I have to imagine that his mistakes are more physical at 2B.  Any thoughts?  Is there a statistic on this?
Sosa pays tribute to Michael Jackson?
Harden, Johnson File For Free Agency
Brett Myers released by the Phillies
Mark Teahen to Chicago....White Sox
More On The Dodger Divorce

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

It Is Only...

Cubs By The Numbers

Cubs By The Numbers is a history of the ballclub by uniform number, but the biographies help trace the history of our beloved team in a new way. For everyone who's a Cubs fan, anyone who ever wore the uniform is like family. Cubs By The Numbers reintroduces readers to some of their long-lost ancestors, even ones they think they already know.

Click here to order your copy, available now!

SPONSORS

Recent Stories in Ticket Exchanges

Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: Cubs Convention 2010
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: General 2009 Ticket Exchange
Yelloncard_small
Ticket Exchanges: September 29-October 4 Homestand

Managing Editor

Yelloncard_small Al

Editorial Cartoonist

Toonmike_small toonmike

Contributors

Dsc_0139_small holy mackerel

100px-boisehawkscaplogo_small Josh77

Small shawndgoldman