Ideas to improve the game and Ideas for Commish
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 21, 2008 8:49 AM CST
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PrintNote I didn't say fix the game because I don't think baseball needs fixing just tinkering.
What are some ideas you have everyone?
One big thing I've always thought would be a good compromise between arbitration and free agency is this.
Make the years that now fall under arbitration right of first refusal free agency. This was almost part of the deal struck in the mid 90s.
Also who would to you be a good candidate to replace Bud Selig?
My candidate as I mentioned in the thread about Furcal is John Schuerholtz.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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The first thing I'd do is get rid of the TV territorial blackouts.
You want to pay to watch a game, you should be able to watch it. Period. No matter where you are located.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Agree
Agree Al. Maybe I don’t feel as strongly about this as others since I live in Chicago and can see every game but I do know if I lived in an area affected and had to watch Pirates Reds instead of the Cubs for example Id be poed.
Barbara V. October 14, 1941 - December 19, 2008. A great lady who was a friend to all and like a second mom to her children's friends (she was my best friend's mom)
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 21, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
+ a very large number
Fifty miles, Bud. Fifty miles.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
Agreed!
I signed up to watch all the games on mlb.com, but I couldn’t watch any games that had a central division team in them! It is ridiculous. I don’t have cable tv, so I was hoping this would allow me to watch all the Cubs games. Boy was I wrong…
Andy R.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2008 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Amen!
I missed Z’s no-no because of that crap! EVEN WHEN I HAD PAID FOR EI! It’s a joke!
"I never drink water because of the disgusting things fish do in it" -W.C. Fields
Bob Costas
Should have been commissioner 15 years ago.
You put a jackass like Schuerholz in there, you’ll have 10 strikes in 8 years.
I’m in favor of more replay, an exploration of automated strike zones and the dismissal of every single umpire in favor of a new batch.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Glad you're not in charge.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Do you have a rebuttal to something specific?
Or are you just generally going to be negative. I’m a positive guy, Al.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Two things.
1. Schuerholz isn’t a jackass.
2. Not every current umpire sucks.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Not every umpire sucks
But they all defend those that do. They are tainted.
Schuerholz, with his latest nonsense, has disqualified himself from being commissioner. He cannot be objective, nor can he be trusted to honor the labor agreements.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
How about this for a compromise?
Every umpire fired and then they can re-interview. The good ones will find their way back.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
They already did that once.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
He's positive he is a guy.
Slight syntactical error.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
Bob Costas?
…um yea.
Maybe Chris Berman can be the NFL Commissioner too…
New sig currently under construction
Bob Costas
has more passion and love for the game than anyone involved in it right now.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
more than you? I find that hard to believe.
unless… unless… unless Worf IS Bob Costas!
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
That doesnt make him qualified to run a business
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Which is partially the problem
The Commissioner of Baseball doesn’t exist as such anymore… Selig is more like the CEO of Baseball.
Which is what the owners wanted.
In that sense, they have done very well. But there’s no “commissioner” to resolve disputes and make tough decisions as there was decades ago.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Bring back the League Presidents!
Make Bud more of a figurehead.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
CEO - Chump Elected by Owners
I was going to go with Chimp, but then I realized that would have been an insult to all the chimps out there. I’m probably going to hack off a chump or two going this route, but I don’t think they can type much anyway…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Mandatory stirrups...
…and heavy fines for uniform pants that are worn like pajamas.
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 21, 2008 10:35 AM CST reply actions
+Gagne
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
you must like Mr. Tightpants Farnsworth, huh?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 22, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
never noticed....care to fill me in?
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 23, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
-1
for having to explain it. LOL.
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 23, 2008 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Appeal denied...
“Relatedness” shown by Reply function. Had Fletch reference not been directly under (aka “replied to”) TWSS, appeal would have been granted.
Whoever said you can't mix business with pleasure never owned a PuttPutt course---Andy Bernard
by carmen_fanzone on Dec 23, 2008 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry, Mr. N Oakley, but you'll have to come with us.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
Punishment for flu like symptoms
Maybe this is a team by team rule that should be instated better but I’ve seen too many players miss a game for “flu like symptoms”.
Get Rid of the DH
in the AL. All players on the field should have to take their turn at the plate. Watching the NL is so much more exciting to me because of pinch hitters, double switches, and leaving your struggling pitcher in there trying to get that third out because he’s due up in the bottom half.
"Yes, dear. You're right. I'm sorry." -Bob Brenly
by ambrosiadreams on Dec 21, 2008 11:27 AM CST reply actions
-1
The DH should be applied to both leagues. Pitchers don’t hit even when they hit, it’s comical the disparity in their statistics v. everyday players. Moreover, hitting by pitchers is not approached professionally at any professional level. Some of the differences in opinions are simply preferences, I find it much more exciting to see a skilled professional hitter attempt to hit 4-5 times during a game v. a pitcher making automatic outs or requiring another professional hit for him because he is so pathetic at the task, and vastly superior to bunting which tends to lead to fewer runs scored and the promotion of idiots like dusty Baker as managerial genius.
I don’t want to watch soccer player faking injury as their main strategy for winning games, and I don’t want to see NL pitchers faking their ABs—both are a total waste of time.
it's comical only because those pitchers tend to approach it that way - and mgmt lets them
What’s wrong with pitchers taking a little professional pride in their hitting? Not asking them to win a batting title, but any pitcher worth their salt ought to be able to lay down a bunt. And if they can’t do that with their natural talent, it ought to be incumbent on the coaching staff to teach them.
You say you don’t like NL pitchers faking their ABs – well, I don’t like AL pitchers throwing at batters, knowing they’ll never have to face the music themselves.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
+1
Your last line is my entire argument for removing the DH (and bringing back the controlled beanball as a legal strategy while we’re at it).
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
In interleague and when they switch leagues
They never seem to face the music.
I remember when Clemens first signed with the Astros. Some of us thought, “Well NOW he’s in the NL. He’ll be dusted five times a week.”
Didn’t happen at all.
“Facing the music” is a myth. Besides, it is much more productive for a team to send a message to a pitcher by throwing at a valuable hitter rather than a useless pitcher.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Well, except when Juan Mateo decked him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Pitchers don’t hit even when they hit,
Carlos Zambrano and Sean Marshall would like a word. Here. Wear this Gatorade costume.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
If your beef is with pitchers batting...
they want not just have an 8 man line up?
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 22, 2008 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
amen.
Baseball is a game played by nine players.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
No it's not.
It’s a game played by eight hitters and a pitcher. The pitchers like Zambrano are very much in the minority.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Why is it that people have a problem with the fact that pitchers aren't very good hitters? It's
part of the game. To me, it’s like complaining about the fact that most quarteback’s are lousy runners. That’s not what their specialty is. They run the ball occasionally and most of them look kind of silly, but people accept that their job is to throw the ball. Some quarterbacks are good runners, but for the most part, they aren’t. I don’t hear of anyone advocating a designated runner to take the ball everytime the quarteback wants to run. To me, that’s as silly as the DH.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I personally like rule
16 of the Knickerbocker rules.
16TH. Players must take their strike in regular turn.
If players must take their strike in turn and Rule 1.01 of the current game is:
1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.
Then what the hell does the DH have to do with the game. Players with all 5 tools should be rewarded as such.
A highly compensated position is not needed for players who cannot field their position and pitchers who can hit should be more valuable than ones who can’t.
+1
Where does it say that every position should be a great hitter? What’s next, a designated hitter for a weak-hitting shortstop? The DH was started when baseball was dying and needed a shot in the arm. That’s not the case now, but the players will never let it go. Let’s not tout it as a pillar of the game that must be supported at all cost. It’s an unnecessary apendage that should be cut off.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
no
it’s a game played by nine players. If pitchers like Z are in the minority, pitchers need to get better about hitting. The DH is an abomination.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
I agree.
And if pitchers can’t be good hitters, they should at least be good bunters. Y’know, move the runner along and all that. I certainly don’t expect every pitcher to be able to hit like Z or Marquis (hey, that rhymes) but, for God’s sake, lay down a freakin’ bunt.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
All-Star game = EXHIBITION.
NOT the deciding factor in who gets home field advantage in the Series. If the All-Star game is tied after 10, start allowing players to come back in.
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
by znohitter on Dec 21, 2008 11:37 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1
I give the commish credit for trying to make the All Star game mean something. Maybe they should let the MVP from the winning team choose a charity to donate a portion of the gate to.
But how is home field advantage decided? What about the home field advantage is given to which ever league won the previous championship?
"Pounding sand since 1982...."
Home field...
…you could alternate NL and AL each year or the best record gets home field which I think is the best idea. This would keep teams competitive through game 162 most years.
New sig currently under construction
Alternate AL and NL each year?
Y’mean the way they used to do it? MADNESS…
Bleed Cubbie Blue: Like Drāno for your internet tubes.
Best record get home field
that’s the reward for professional players winning the most. It’s not high school ball where neutral sites are the rage. Not only reward the best record but the fans who paid the cash to see the team with the best record!
This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).
Home field hasn't made a difference in the WS in a while...
But, what they need to do is make it so the away team never has an advantage in games!! Make it 2-2-1 for the 5 game series, and 2-2-1-1-1 for the 7 game series. More travel yeah, but not necessarily more days. Make the travel day an early evening game, and the following day a primetime game.
LCS and World Series format
What about a 3-3-1 format? That would not increase travel and would also mean the team without home field advantage would never have an advantage in home games.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
Other ideas
I think it would be interesting for teams to change leagues every couple years. Or change what league current teams are in. That might help to keep it more competitive for teams like KC, Pittsburgh, Texas and Seattle. Or introduce a salary cap (I believe like hockey did) where teams have comparable salary caps, and aren’t able to spend more than x% of that salary cap on any particular player. This would prevent teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, and (sorry) the current Cubs from being able to buy the best free agents each year. Granted, this doesn’t mean your team will win every game, but having more money to spend certainly gives teams an advantage.
Andy R.
by WindisBlowingOut! on Dec 21, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions
Do something about the DH
1- Get rid of it in the AL
2- Institute in the NL
I had a lengthy, tangential argument about this in another thread…..I prefer option 2, but I think its a bit strange that they dont operate under the same rules; its literally unfair in terms of post season and interleague play.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Oh man, your comment just gave me a terrible thought...
What if Bud decides it’s time to address the DH issue and in usual Bud fashion completely screws it up?
Instead of implementing either of your two options (I prefer option 1), what if he does both??? i.e. he decides to get rid of the DH in the AL and institute it in the NL? Instant chaos, on the level that only Bud can create…
Of course, the silver lining in that cloud would be precisely 0.72 seconds after Bud issues said decree, Jimbo would have Dunn’s agent on the phone and a deal completed tout suite…
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
The ole switcheroo
Or he decides to alternate year by year.
Id be fine with either option, I just think it should be universal and would lean towards no. 2 b/c I think owners would go for that b/c of the amount of money all starters, even the bums, are making now.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
Given where we are in the game today, getting rid of DH is not very realistic, so my realistic ideal solution would be to...
…turn the DH into a EH, as in Extra Hitter, and make the pitcher hit too. Make it uniform for both leagues.
Down side is 10 spots in the batting order, which will cause traditionalists to cry havoc. Up side is consistency across both leagues, pitchers are held accountable for their beanball ways, and Adam Dunn types can find employment opportunities in both leagues.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
They did once have an idea...
…. as long as they have the current rule, why not try this: have the DH in NL parks in interleague games, and make pitchers bat in the AL parks. Just to shake things up a little.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
That's a logical, smart, fan-friendly and very easy to implement idea...
…which means of course, it will never happen.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
Extra Hitter?
I dont think that would make sense to have a DH and the pitcher hit……I think the way the game is trending, we will see a universal DH; with increased testing etc etc, there might come a cry for more offense, and like Ive said, with the amount of money pitchers are making, I can see a move towards a DH in the NL….more so than the AL reverting back.
Afterall, the NL almost adopted the DH were it not for that one owner being absent from the vote (I think I recalled that correctly…..something along those lines)
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
They'll have to take "pitcher-batting" from my cold dead hands...
The DH is an abomination; I’d sooner eat my foot than just resign myself to the inevitability of it happening in the NL. :)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 21, 2008 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
I dont know about inevitable, but would you really be surprised?
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
I think I'd be surprised from the fan standpoint...
but you’re right in the sense that I don’t think it’s totally out of the realm of possibility.
If I had to guess, I think its more likely that it won’t ever be adopted in the NL at this point. (I suppose one might argue I’m just too much in the traditionalist camp to notice movement the other way, but I’d still be surprised.)
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 22, 2008 1:25 AM CST up reply actions
I'd demand earlier game times...
For the playoffs. We’ve gone from day games to midnight games, and it hasn’t been a positive change, especially for those who have kids and want them to be able to enjoy the game the way they did when they were young (how many parents can really let their kids stay up all hours of the day for an entire series? And how many kids are physically able to stay awake anyway?). Given that a main concern of baseball is to make sure that it is popular well into the future, the current system seems moronic to me.
I’d even be ok with day games. Sure it’ll cut down on our work productivity, but…actually, that’s a selling point :)
I also think they need to cut down on the commercial breaks. MLB is becoming like the freaking NFL with breaks every 2 minutes….
Actually I was just referring to the playoffs...
But that said, I don’t mind day baseball during the regular season either…
by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 21, 2008 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Get rid of the unbalanced schedule
I liked the schedule back in the day when you’d see the east and west coast teams come in a few times a year. I get tired of seeing the Reds and Pirates every other week. I understand the intent of the unbalanced schedule, but I don’t agree with it. I want to see the Dodgers and the Mets and the Braves and the DBacks and all the other teams multiple times.
If MLB wants divisional races decided by divisional play, they can make the schedules so that you play within the division the last month or so.
While we’re at it, I could do without inter-league play, but if it must stay, I’d make it balanced (at least within the division) too. Even if it requires 2 game series – each team in a division should play all the other teams in that year’s division, not some of them. We don’t need six games against the Sox while the Cards play the Royals six times – I feel Sox/Cubs games will be more meaningful if only played once every three years. To me, the novelty of the regional rivalries has long ago worn off, and I’m ready for the variety of playing the entire other division, rotating each year.
Just my two cents.
This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again.
by HectorVillanueva on Dec 21, 2008 9:12 PM CST reply actions
You can't have both.
If you have a balanced schedule, you won’t have enough divisional games to play all September in the division. Or if you do, you would go long stretches without seeing division rivals. Do you really want to see the Cardinals only in April and September? That’s what you’d get with a balanced schedule.
I like it better the way it is, although they could do a better job of actually MAKING the schedule.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
changes
1. Get rid of that absolutely stupid idea of the ASG determining WS home field advantage; make it the better record, period.
2. Better inter-league system. I don’t care about this so-called unbalanced schedule. When the NL had 12 teams and the Cubs were in the East, they played 18 division games and 12 league games, per team. I’d like to see all teams play in a season, alternating sites for the inter-league games. There’d still be room left for some add’l marquee games like NYM/NYY and CHC/CHW. I’d have to admit it’d work much easier with my algorithm if there were 32 teams though. On the DH (even though I think it sucks, MLBPA will never let it go), DH is used in the opposite of parks (e.g. AL teams coming to Clark and Addison: Those games have the DH).
3. Allow divisional teams to play in the 1st round of the playoffs. (e.g. seed them exactly by record)
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
How about a random swap?
I know it sounds crazy but hear me out:
Each year one team at random will be pulled from a lottery and swap between AL and NL. It could be fun and allow for new meetings among teams that haven’t seemed to have met in interleague yet.
Everyone has met in interleague.
In fact, almost everyone has met home-and-home by now. The Cubs have a couple combinations they haven’t done home-and-home with yet (Red Sox, Angels, A’s).
This would be a pretty wacky idea. You would, of course, have to have TWO teams to make a swap. What if you picked the Yankees and Padres, for example? It would be tough to make the Padres make three trips to Boston, Toronto and Tampa as an AL East team
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Yes and no
I know we’ve all played each other but as you pointed out, Cubs have never been to Fenway.
You would have to do 2 swaps. But you don’t switch division. I mean the NL Central could afford to lose 1 or even 2 teams and another division could afford to add one.
I'm going the other way...
But this one I know I’m in the extreme minority on.
I’m sick of interleague. I think the luster is gone. Those wondrous Orioles-Padres matchups just don’t do it for me.
Even the “natural geographic” rivals are lame, once you get past the intra-city or intra-state matchups. Mariners-Padres? Seriously?
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
I'd be perfectly happy
for the Cubs to never go to the abomination known as “the Cell” every again.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
no, I'd like to avoid that as well.
win the WS, THEN we can go to the Cell.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
by drewishdrewid on Dec 22, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
More aggressive revenue sharing
Publish the numbers openly so that fans of teams like the Marlins know exactly how much ownership is pocketing. In theory then the owners will have to answer to the fans (as much as that is possible) if they aren’t spending that money on players.
It’s the only way to restore some amount of payroll equity in the major leagues. The luxury tax just doesn’t cut it.
I actually just did a regression analysis of the effect of a lot of factors on winning. One of the factors that we plotted was salary, which of course influences winning in a pretty significant manner.
When I scatterplotted salary by year to see if we could adjust the numbers for salary growth and inflation I was astonished to see just how much the divide was growing between the rich and poor teams. It’s as though the salaries of the rich teams are growing geometrically, while the salaries of the poor teams are growing at a linear rate. That’s incredibly alarming – you already have teams like the Yankees with salaries 10x that of the poorest teams. In a decade, that could be 100x unless you start spreading the wealth.
It's not just "more aggressive"...
… it’s making a requirement that the teams that get the revenue sharing funds put it into player payrolls.
It’s eminently clear that they are NOT doing this now.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
A good start would be a requirement that teams match the revenue sharing
money with at least a percentage of their own revenue to form a pool for their player salaries. It’s crazy for a team like the Marlins to receive more in luxury tax dollars than they spend in salary. The owners that pay into the pool and the fans shouldn’t stand for this type of behavior. I’m not against a team making money, but it should be done with some effort towrds building a solid revenue stream, not just sitting back receiving revenue-sharing money. In my opinion, this makes owners lazy and frustrates fans.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
That's a good point Al.
The revenue sharing should come in the form of a “payroll credit” rather than a cash gift.
That way teams can either use the money towards payroll or lose it completely.
Exactly!
It’ll never happen. It makes too much sense.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
There's also the fact that there are many owners on the
Marlin’s side than there are on the Yankees side. The jealosy and resentment factor seem to keep this from happening. Many of the owners seem to feel that the Yankees are ruining the salary structure in baseball and that they should not have to spend a significant amount of revenue on salary and reduce profits.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
And I hope as things continue to get worse
It’ll force their hand. Because things will get worse, especially with the economy the way it is. Teams like the Cubs, Red Sox, and Yankees won’t be hurt very much by the economy. The already weak and poor teams will be hurt much more by it.
It can't help but get worse. If you look at the trends in team salaries versus other teams,
it can’t be sustained. At this rate, the weaker teams would only be able to afford rookies and journeyman vets and attendance will get worse. It’s a downward spiral that feeds on itself. At this rate, the weker teams will fold in a few years.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
You could even give them some flexibility
You could say that they have to spend, say 2008’s revenue within three years. That would allow for them to pay for younger players instead of having to blow it all in one year on overpriced free agents.
Diligence is needed, though. Right now, they could stuff the money in some account and say it’s for “developing talent” or something.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
Revenue sharing system is OK, except...
there must be a low-end of the payroll. The wealth has already been spread; it must now be the teams that get these sharing dollars be forced to spend them on the players payroll.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 22, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think the wealth is being effectively shared currently
Compare baseball’s luxury tax to the almost socialist ways of the NFL and you’ll get a better idea of what I’m suggesting. Now, I’m not saying I want the NFL’s system per se, but I think a greater percentage of each team’s profits should go into a common kitty and be distributed equally to all teams.
The effect in the NFL...
… means that more teams can contend each year and teams can — as the Dolphins have done this year — go from absolutely horrible to the playoffs in one year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
That may be the case, but the NFL's TV contract skews those numbers. The Dallas Coboys make many
times the amount of money in marketing as the Chiefs do, but the TV money along with the cap keeps them competitive. It’s hard to justify making the Yankees adhere to a hard cap and giving a major portion of there revenue to the rest of the league when their TV contract is for Yankee games only. While it’s true that the Yankees can’t make any money if they have no one to play, they should be rewarded for actively marketing their product. Some responsibility has to fall to the owners of the small-market teams to effectively develop solid revenue streams and not just sit back and claim that their market won’t support them.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
However
You just have to look at the current rate of revenue and salary growth to see that the divide is only going to get bigger and bigger. The Royals will never be able to build a revenue stream to match the Yankees without extremely aggressive revenue sharing, or luxury taxing, or whatever.
You raise a good point about the NFL though, and that’s why their system wouldn’t fit with the MLB. When you only have 15 games per week you can have a one-size-fits-all TV contract, but that just isn’t appropriate for the MLB. I think that’s how they arrived at the system they have now.
What you could do is add graduated tiers to the luxury tax system, the way we do in the US with income tax. But I think you need to tax on the revenue side, not on the payroll side. Otherwise you’ll have teams that deliberately shave payroll just to avoid being taxed.
You raise some good points. I realize that the Royals
can’t come close to Yankees in revenue streams, the disparity in market size prohibits that. However, the smaller-market teams need to capitalize on all available sources. If the market can’t or won’t support the team, maybe a move is necessary. The Marlins have had winning teams, but play in front of an empty house. They have to make the effort. There are really two sides here, revenue-sharing and market development.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 22, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
There's a chicken/egg argument there
The Marlins fans DID support the team when it was good. At some point, there is just too much to do in life to worry about supporting a baseball team that spends $15 million.
That city has the Dolphins, Heat, the University of Miami, and some hockey team. Not to mention that it’s freaking Miami!
That’s what the Yankees have to deal with too. There is another baseball team, two football teams, two basketball teams, three hockey teams, countless collegiate options and Broadway.
Put out a good product and people will come.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
That's actually not true at all.
The Marlins’ average attendance per game in 2003 when they won the World Series was around 16,000, same as the last 2 years when their team payroll was less than A-Rod’s. It went up in the ensuing 2 years after, but only by about 30%.
Fair enough on 2003
But 29,000 per game went in 1997, when the team spent money. Perhaps they had been burned.
The worst beer I had was pretty good.
I think most expansion teams have trouble maintaining their initial attendances
There’s a buzz around a new team that’s hard to maintain. The Rockies, for instance, spend a reasonable amount of money and put decent teams on the field. But even their attendances have gone down a ton from those first 5 years.
The luxury tax isn't revenue sharing
Don’t think that’s what you meant but just for reference. It’s gate receipts and other team’s source of revenue directly related to the ball games that is shared. IIRC, the Cubs pay about 1/3rd of their revenue brought in by the games. It’s why the Cubs are exploring a “Yes Network” type of arrangement with the new owners, using ’GN as the framework.
I’m not sure if money from the luxury tax is dispersed among any of the other teams.
The reason why the team wants concerts (and is probably getting some monies for the soon-to-be-awesome game played 1/1/09) is that money is not subject to the MLB revenue sharing agreement. So whatever they get in the kitty for the Police concerts, they get to keep; that is after all the bills are paid.
I really don’t want to see more money spread around. This isn’t socialism like we’re about to see the next few years at the national level. MLB has to put in a salary “sill”, just like that have a salary “cap”. The NHL has it too, just like the NFL.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 22, 2008 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
This isn’t socialism like we’re about to see the next few years at the national level.
I’m not touching that with a ten foot pole.
Don’t think that’s what you meant but just for reference. It’s gate receipts and other team’s source of revenue directly related to the ball games that is shared. IIRC, the Cubs pay about 1/3rd of their revenue brought in by the games. It’s why the Cubs are exploring a "Yes Network" type of arrangement with the new owners, using ’GN as the framework.
I’m not sure if money from the luxury tax is dispersed among any of the other teams.
Well, the luxury tax isn’t a literal revenue sharing system, which I realize there already is in place. But it leads to the high-revenue teams sharing money with the low-revenue teams, so it serves the same purpose.
Luxury taxing as I stated elsewhere isn’t a great way to accomplish this though, you need to tax from the revenue side of things. It’s just like income tax – if you only had a sales tax and no income tax, you’re inviting teams to get around it by simply refusing to spend. You have to tax on the income / revenue side, at a graduated rate, if you want anything resembling equity.
Oh, one more thing
MLB has to put in a salary "sill", just like that have a salary "cap". The NHL has it too, just like the NFL.
Putting in a minimum salary without increasing revenue sharing is just inviting teams to go bankrupt. I know that there are some teams, like the Marlins, who obviously pocket their luxury tax / revenue sharing money, but it would be very easy for that minimum to eventually be greater than some teams net revenues.
The MLB is a very unique situation with regards to salary in that players are cost controlled for the first few years of their contracts. You don’t see anything like that in any of the other sports. That makes any kind of salary cap / minimum salary situation a little bit more troublesome to manage than it is in sports where players jump right from the amateur level to the top professional level.
I guess until we know how much money
the Royals, Marlins and Pirates are getting from the Yankees, BoSox and Cubs, we really won’t know how much they’re pocketing. I don’t believe those figures are readily available, or are they?
The luxury tax is that sin tax or when teams (guess it’s only been the Yankees thus far) spend beyond a given limit for that season. IIRC, MLB pockets that and it’s not p/o the revenue sharing program.
When the Cubs have to fork over about a 1/3rd of their revenue, I have to believe there’s some teams making out like a bandit. They just have to be held accountable for that influx of cash.
Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.
by blackhawk24 on Dec 22, 2008 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
The luxury tax is that sin tax or when teams (guess it’s only been the Yankees thus far) spend beyond a given limit for that season. IIRC, MLB pockets that and it’s not p/o the revenue sharing program.
Correct, it goes towards the Industry Growth Fund, which promotes baseball throughout the world. Poor teams only get revenue sharing dollars.
Though frankly there isn’t a ton of money getting caught there. Only two teams currently pay the luxury tax, so it isn’t really what we need as currently designed.
Also who would to you be a good candidate to replace Bud Selig?
A used infield rake.
"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella
Actually
I thought his father might have been a good choice. He has a true passion for the game.
I met him and his wife at a Cubs/Astros game in 1998 in Houston. You have to appreciate the baseball fan who would chose which one to attend to see the kid everyone wanted to see pitch (Kerry Wood).
Barbara V. October 14, 1941 - December 19, 2008. A great lady who was a friend to all and like a second mom to her children's friends (she was my best friend's mom)
by puckishcubsfan on Dec 22, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
I was half kidding
but I believe W was interested in the job had he not gone into politics, although you could argue he would have been in politics either way.
Its going to be a BLou Chistmas...
I think this is true.
W was indeed interested. I think he might have been considered at the time Selig got the position (W was still the Rangers owner at the time).
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I'd be for it.
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 23, 2008 8:45 AM CST up reply actions
Hear, hear.
What this game needs is better strategery.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
Bush's Axis of Evil:
Designated Hitters, ASG deciding home field, Neifi Perez
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 23, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
"I'm considering a surge of expansion teams...
…what do y’all think?"
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
More Handlebar Mustaches
I haz blurg: hotbeans.wordpress.com
by digitalbenjamin on Dec 22, 2008 1:03 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I'll sec that rec in the name of wacky facial hair.
Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.
My choice for commissioner...
1. George Will
2. Nolan Ryan
3. Tom Seaver
4. Bob Costas
5. John Schuerholz
The problem is that I don’t know if any of these guys would want the job…
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
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