Khalil Greene To Be Traded To The Cardinals

A web of intrigue

This just keeps getting thicker…..get on the phone already Jimmy

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 3, 2008 11:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sometimes you just wish you knew what was going on behind the scenes...

Because you know Hendry has been making phone calls, you know he wants to make some moves, but nothing yet. And it’s hard to be patient when all we’ve really seen so far this offseason is letting Wood go and trading for Gregg. This next week or so should be pretty exciting.

by rynomite23 on Dec 3, 2008 11:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Don't Forget...

… exercising Harden’s option and signing Demp!!

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 3, 2008 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's a good gamble for the Cardinals

assuming that they didn’t give up any top talent, which I doubt (I could see a young arm perhaps, Mitch Boggs?)

On a side note, Dave Ross’ 2/3.5 might indicate that Blanco could cost as much as 1.75 AAV. As bad as I feel for the Blanco family for their current situation, I don’t know if it is worth it for us to pay that much if we have such a budget crunch.

by toonsterwu on Dec 3, 2008 11:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I Think He'd Be Worth It...

… and don’t forget the $300K buyout that we already incurred.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 3, 2008 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This actually bodes well for the Peavy deal in another way

The Orioles were interested in Greene at one point. Given that they may be the 3rd team in our 3-way trade for Peavy, one less option at SS for them means we’re more likely to have what they’re looking for.

Alternately, it also means the Padres need a shortstop.

by Wreckard on Dec 3, 2008 11:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re:

I’m thinking that, unless we add a shortstop piece, that the Padres may want Cedeno as a cheap shortstop option. They don’t have much in the system, with um, Nick Zawadzki (sp?), the only one I know of, and he’s a fringe prospect.

by toonsterwu on Dec 3, 2008 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yea, and it's also possible the Padres may want Cendeno

by philadelphiacub on Dec 3, 2008 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've always suspsected something else

That given the “Fontenot for SS” talk in the press, as well as a couple of “Theriot isn’t very good” pieces I’ve seen in the paper, I’ve wondered if he’s one of the players involved in the Peavy deal.

by Wreckard on Dec 4, 2008 7:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

When Wittenmyer wrote that "Theriot unfazed by speculation" piece in the Sun-Times

my reaction was, “what speculation”? I emailed him, asking if the Cubs were really looking for a new SS and to my utter surprise he replied. His answer was: “not necessarily for a shortstop, but definitely for left-handed (or switch) hitting for the (1) middle of the order and/or (2) top of the order. Furcal obviously fits the latter bill, and his agent confirms the Cubs have inquired.”

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 4, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if the Padres would see Theriot as a SS.

That said, Theriot’s hitting style is one that, seems to me, to be less likely to be affected by Petco’s brutal park effect v. RHP. He might make a good 2B for them. I could see the Padres wanting Theriot and Cedeno and playing Cedeno at SS.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 8:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Funny

I find it humorous that Cedeno’s name is included in a comment with the phrase “fringe prospect” and it is not directed at him. Cedeno is the very definition of “fringe prospect”.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Dec 4, 2008 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No he's not.

1) He’s not a prospect.
2) When he was a prospect, he was a top 100 Baseball America prospect.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 8:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

We can quibble about our individual definitions of “prospect” if you’d like. In my mind, a young player without a full-time job and some level of ability that may make another team consider giving him a full-time job is still considered a “prospect”. In addition, whether BA or any other scribe or publication classifies someone among their top 20, 50, 100, 1000 still doesn’t change my idea of what a “prospect” is. BA has been plenty wrong annually and will admit such readily.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Dec 4, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Officially...

… a “prospect” is someone who has not yet had enough ML time to qualify as a rookie.

Cedeno has over 900 major league AB, far beyond that qualification.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

A fringe prospect, for me, is someone that has a borderline chance, imo, of making the bigs. Whereas Cedeno is in the bigs, I do not consider him a fringe prospect. Furthermore, when discussing prospect status, most people typically refers to individuals that have yet to complete a year in the majors.

by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here in the Baltimore area of the world

We read that the Orioles are interested in getting Izturis from the Cards.

"I'm not much of a chemistry guy, you know. Chemistry to me is a pinch-hit double with the bases loaded"--Jim Frey, Chicago Tribune, 1985.

by zevkalman on Dec 4, 2008 8:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Izturis is a free agent

I believe…so no getting is required…just money and bodyguards for Nick Markakis (SP) during walk offs.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Dec 4, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL!!

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm very glad,

if the we were to get Peavy i was not looking forward to any deal in which we were going to aquire Greene. He an absolutely horrible hitter.
THANK YOU REDBIRDS

by nick_reny on Dec 3, 2008 11:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I Am Looking Forward To...

…seeing all the strikeouts we’d hand to him!

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 3, 2008 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps the Padres want one of our SS

Could be? I dont know who they have in house thats ready, is Antonelli a middle infielder?

In any case, the events of the past week are getting me optimistic about Peavy, pieces seem to be falling in place…..fingers crossed everyone (well those of us who want him)

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 3, 2008 11:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

re:

Antonelli plays 2nd. They are fairly deep in options 2nd, with Denker, Antonelli, Sogard lining up. Their top shortstop talent in fullseason (I don’t really follow their AZL or DSL all that closely) is probably Zawadzki (sp?) but his bat is a question if a I remember correctly.

by toonsterwu on Dec 3, 2008 11:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so one of our guys could be a stop gap for them

again, fingers crossed….Id be interested to see how Ronny could do the second time around as a full timer

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 3, 2008 11:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

one of their goals this offseason was to find a stopgap shortstop that was cheap. i imagine cedeno could be an option. Theriot fits their offensive modeling, but I’m not sure how enthused they would be about putting Theriot at short after having Greene there.

by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2008 12:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hope this deal happens

for many reasons. Not the least of which we can stop reading the few suggestions I’ve see on BCB that the Cubs get Greene. He couldn’t hit a beach ball with a 2 by 4! Good luck with that one, St. Louis!

Demp and Rich: proof that people that live in igloos and say "eh" can contibute!

by Canadian Cubs Fan on Dec 4, 2008 6:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wow, looking at his stats

he is aweful with the bat. I thought maybe Petco contributed to this but last year he hit on the road for a line of:

.212 Avg. .225 OBP and .317 Slug%. For a whopping .542 OPS!

Wow, I know that LaRussa has been viewed as a miracle worker, but this is going to take a miracle of biblical proportions.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 4, 2008 7:03 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Tony

is seen as more of a miracle worker with pitchers.

by elgato on Dec 4, 2008 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

and that's only because he has an able assistant, Dave "Quasimodo" Duncan, at his side...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 4, 2008 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I thought Duncan was considered the pitching mastermind

and Tony the hitting mastermind.

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 4, 2008 9:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would not say Tony is a miracle worker

when it comes to improving hitting mechanics. His forte appears to be matchups. He tends to play the stats/matchup game and is not afraid to bench an everyday starter not named Pujols or Molina in favor of a better matchup. He puts players in position to succeed and tries not to over expose them.

"When two Whales Fight, many Shrimp Die" - Korean Proverb

by TheRiot Police on Dec 4, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re:

Khalil was just flat out awful last year. That said, the reason folks are still intrigued is because, prior to 2008, he had very solid road splits that suggested there was a Petco influence. He simply lost it in 2008 – is it a sign to come or an outlier? That’s a question no one can answer right now, but for a position that has minimal offensive requirements, as long as he is steady on defense, I think it’s worth the 1 year gamble to see what’s there, particularly since the price was very minimal.

by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2008 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that Khalil Greene was beaten down mentally by both Petco Park and the expectations of the Padres' brass.

He is the classic change-of-scenery candidate, and I think he will have a great year for the Cards.

As far as LaRussa is concerned, Greene doesn’t have to be very good to be better than Aaron Miles….

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be suprised if Greene had a very good year

with the Cardinals. He seems to be a very good change of scenery candidate.

Steve Phillips on his computer use as Mets GM, "I played solitaire on my computer in my office."

by Tate491 on Dec 4, 2008 7:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

+1

He was excellent (and the Pad’s Player of the Year) in ’07

by leothelip on Dec 4, 2008 7:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, he still not all that good.

I would say I guy with a career average of .248, .304 OBP and .427 isn’t exactly a prize hitter. Even his “excellent” year in ‘07, he couldn’t manage an OBP over .300

"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion

by DTJchris on Dec 4, 2008 7:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

look at the petco influence

on his splits prior to 2008.

by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep - remember what they got out of Felipe Lopez last year

after a similarly dismal season from him prior to his time in StL.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On The Other Side Of The Coin...

… from Tom Krasovic:

The move could improve the club’s chances of retaining ace pitcher Jake Peavy or gaining leverage in trade talks involving Peavy, who is guaranteed $11 million next year and $63 million over the next four years.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 7:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Peavy is still too expensive with a $40M payroll

new economics and divorce problems

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 4, 2008 8:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Possibly

but I’m not buying it.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

What is it that you know more than someone in San Diego?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 8:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

All he says is

could

then

improve

then

chances

If that many qualifiers were added to a trade rumor about Peavy a week ago, you’d have shot it down as idle speculation.

Let’s hear something from Towers first. Then, if we do hear something, there’ll still be a good chance he’s just trying to regain some leverage.

Finally, even if the Padres can hold on to Peavy’s salary this year, that doesn’t change the specter of the large increases in the years to come.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

True enough.

Who knows what Towers is going to say? He’s a loose cannon.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Towers' deportment in this has been odd

- almost as if he isn’t bothering to gain leverage for the trade at all. Early on he said something about trusting Jim Hendry and knowing the two would be able to work out something fair. I wonder if that’s actually what’s going on, that the two are working to get an pre-established fair package for Peavy if they can, without working against each other.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 9:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea, but that sounds doubtful.

Based on last year’s Roberts ballet, Hendry doesn’t seem like he has much patience for this kind of thing. He seems more the kind of guy who wants to get a deal done, not screw around with it for three months.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendry In This Case...

…, though, may be stalling. Not only is it very difficult to swing a 3-way or 4-way deal, Hendry likely needs to bounce the remaining $81.5M (as Peavy is likely to request a full NTC and exercise the 2013 option) off the new ownership.

Also, Hendry is likely prioritizing what he can get for higher priorities via trades first.

Personally, I think that Hendry and Towers have a list of guys that SD wants (say, choosing 3 or 4 from a list of 5 or 6). Towers sounds like he may be patient to let this simmer. Hendry may need to have a sit down with Towers, Sabien and McFAIL middle of next week to see if they can hammer something out.

The whole ownership situation will likely hold this up, though. Better said, I’d be surprised if it didn’t!

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Peavy wanted to be traded anyway

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That Doesn't Matter...

… if there aren’t any takers.

At this point, though, if Towers told Peavy in November that he will be traded, it would kinda suck if he went back on his word.

I just hope that if this deal gets done that Hendry’s medical staff review the medical records very closely.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

I don’t think Peavy wanted to be traded; if he did, why would he have signed a six-year deal to stay in San Diego just before he could have been a free agent?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 10:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well things have changes since then

the latests post at mlbtr says a basic framework is in place, revolving around Vitters and should pick up steam at the winter meetings.

the Pads are in full on rebuilding mode now, Chris Young and Gonzalez are all thats left. If the Giants somehow get Renteria and convince CC to come home again, theyre gonna be vastly better, the dbacks and rockies should be in contention as well.

So Peavy should want out if he didnt before

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interestingly...

… the MLBTR post quotes Buster Olney’s blog as the source of that information.

I don’t see a single thing in that link that mentions Peavy.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You have to click on the insider link at the bottom of Dierkes' link

Here’s a quote:

The Jake Peavy talks between the Cubs and Padres are essentially on hold at this point, as the Cubs’ ownership situation is settled. Once that process moves along, the talks figure to re-start; the Cubs keep telling the Padres that they are seriously interested, and the teams have a basic framework in place, built around Josh Vitters. The Padres remain under enormous pressure to cut payroll and move Peavy’s salary — which, day by day, doesn’t look like the kind of sweetheart deal that it looked like at the beginning of the offseason.

Also, he says,

Sure, the Cubs would love to have Adam Dunn in their lineup. But the problem is that in the end, they probably can’t seriously consider playing the defensively challenged Dunn in one corner outfield spot, as the other bookend to the defensively challenged Alfonso Soriano. And given the current market conditions, there’s virtually no chance of them moving Soriano’s contract.

Dunn continues to put himself in position for a bigger and better season, through conditioning; he’s dropped 14 pounds so far in this offseason.

That last line tells me Dunn is becoming “younger and more athletic.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

14 pounds off of Dunn is like throwing a deck chair off of the Titanic.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 4, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

It hardly makes him “more athletic”.

And if you can figure out how he’s getting “younger”, let me know.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 11:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Tighter underwear?

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 4, 2008 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

LMAO

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

haha.

That was awesome.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 4, 2008 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

I heard a brief mention of Dunn’s conditioning program on Dave Kaplan’s show some weeks ago but was never able to find anything substantiating it. Now, granted, no amount of conditioning is going to turn Adam Dunn into Roberto Clemente, but this does put at least a little bit of a positive spin on the idea of signing Dunn as a right fielder.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 4, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya know

sometimes reading this site about Dunn makes it sound like he’s the second coming of Greg Luzinski. As DCD said, he’s not the next Clemente, but Dunn is a decent athlete. He was offered a scholoarship to U of Texas as a quarterback. He has some speed.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Dec 4, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ya know

Even Greg Luzinski wasn’t that bad. Willie Stargell might be a better example.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Dec 4, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Stargell wasn't a bad outfielder, at least in his younger days.

Luzinski was. Once he got to the White Sox — and he was only 30 then — he never played another game in the outfield (two at 1B were the only games he played in the field in the AL).

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I really don't remember

Stargell in his early years, but I do remember Luzinski with the Phillies and thought that he was quicker than he looked. I could be wrong. Maybe I’m projecting Ron Kittle into Luzinski and working backward.

Formerly NO100

by jerry morales rules on Dec 4, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I think you are.

Luzinski really had no speed from the start of his career. The guy could hit, though.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hendry's told us why he would wait this time -

- he doesn’t want to “spend other people’s money.”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Buster Onley's saying

trade talks will pick up after the team sale with Vitters as the centerpiece.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 4, 2008 10:39 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

The SS market is moving quickly

Greene to the Cards.
Renteria to the Giants.
Now Jack Wilson to the Tigers.
Lillibridge went to the Sox, meaning Escobar’s likely off the market.

Remaining on the market are Rafael Furcal, Orlando Cabrera, Cesar Izturis, Adam Everett, Jason Bartlett, Nick Punto, and Juan Uribe. There’s a steep dropoff there, especially when you consider O-Cab costing a Type A draft pick.

Remaining in the hunt – the Dodgers, A’s, Twins, Padres, Orioles, and probably a few others.

It seems to me like the trade market favors the Cubs for trading SSs. Anyone with some proposals?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 11:36 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

re

I don’t think Lillibridge necessarily impacts Escobar. I don’t think Atlanta viewed Brent as any sort of solution they were counting on. Lillibridge has been one of those cases where a hot A ball season 3 years ago seems to have propped up his name recognition, for lack of a better term. He was average in 07 and horrid in 08. I don’t think he’s as bad as he was in 08, but I think he’s more a util (can play some OF if need be) than a starter.

Back on point – I don’t think Brent’s trade impacts Yunel. They weren’t going to deal Yunel unless they could nab Peavy (or a similar level arm), and if they are closing in on Burnett, that might change the equation. This would allow them to deal Kelly Johnson and give Martin Prado or some other internal option a shot at 2nd.

I think Baltimore, unless they can nab a youngster in a deal, will go with Izturis. If Adam Everett gets a starting job, I’ll be surprised. As for Furcal, part of me thinks they were waiting to see if Atlanta could move Escobar. I imagine he’ll sign soon. I’m guessing Oakland right now.

by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2008 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Furcal goes to the A's, Crosby will likely be available.

He won’t help the Cubs, but he will be available.

And Mark O’Neal is praying that the Cubs don’t get him.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark O'Neal is praying the Cubs don't get who?

Furcal or Crosby?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Either.

Furcal has had at least a few relatively healthy seasons. Crosby could get hurt getting out of bed.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Izturis is supposedly going to the O's.

Early rumors were that Cabrera was going to the Twins, but they may back off rather than surrender their 1st round pick.

The Twins usually want defense first, so they will probably re-sign Everett if his shoulder is OK. Otherwise, they will probably re-sign Punto and use him and Harris.

The Braves aren’t likely to trade Escobar unless they need him in a deal for a front-line SP (Lilly?). If they sign Lowe or Burnett, they will keep him. Lillibridge has been passed by Diory Hernandez, so the Braves simply unloaded him before his value went down further.

I doubt that Bartlett will be traded.

I think that most teams see Punto as more of a “utility guy”, but someone may take a chance on him.

I personally don’t see the Dodgeers being interested in either Riot or Cedeño. If they don’t re-sign Furcal, they might be interested in Crosby (if Furcal signs with the A’s) or Cabrera. They might also try to pry Betancourt away from the M’s. I’m sure that the Dodgers would be interested in DeRo for 2B/3B if they don’t get Blake, but it doesn’t seem like DeRo is available right now. (I think he will be unloaded if the Cubs get Peavy.)

To me, Uribe is the wild-card because most teams see him as a talented, underachieving, head case. Would a contending team like the Dodgers want him? Obviously, the Cards passed on him to get Greene for two pitchers, so that is one vote “no”.

The only teams that “might” be interested in Cedeño are the Padres and Pirates.

I think that the Royals wouldn’t mind signing a SS with potential and moving Aviles to 2B, but I don’t think any FAs — with the possible exception of Punto — qualify.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So to sum up...

…we can all look forward to another season of Doubleclutchy McScrappison at shortstop.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 4, 2008 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Until and unless Lou figures out that DeRo is a better SS....

Yes, you will have another season to love (or loathe) the Riot.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Puppy Power!!!!!!!!!!

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 4, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The O's supposedly have interest in Cedeno, too.

I think the Dodgers, who signed Juan Pierre, could be persuaded to look at Theriot.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs would have to WANT to move Theriot

Hendry and Piniella have too much manlove for that.

Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true! --Homer J. Simpson

by Shanghai Badger on Dec 4, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great minds...

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 4, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Dodgers liked Juan Pierre so much to give him that contract

then they probably would love a guy like Ryan Theriot for free.

My next sig line quote will also be from Lou Piniella, and the first word will be either "Look", or "Listen", followed by a comma.

by JohnM on Dec 4, 2008 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently Jack Wilson...

…has not been traded yet! The Pirates are still in discussions with the Dodgers, too.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 1:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just watch

Greene will rebound when he’s out of the toxic atmosphere that is the Padres.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 4, 2008 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I agree

When this was announced my first thought was “the is such a typical Cardinal trade — of course they got him. He’ll turn out to be good there and will kill us at least twice next seasons”

The bastards.

:)

by leothelip on Dec 4, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of the Cardinals...

I think it’s important that we note here that they are vile turds and we hope they go 0-162 next year.

(I just figured since this started out as a discussion of those palehosers from St. Louis, someone should make the obligatory insult).

Now back to more erudite discussion… :)

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 4, 2008 1:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

Aye, hear hear!

Let the record reflect!

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 4, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't hope they go 0-162 next year.

I hope that they split with the Reds and the Brewskis…

Cards: 16-146
Brewers: 16-146
Reds: 16-146

The ’Stros have Drayton McLane, and I would never wish a team anything worse than that.

The Pirates are the Pirates — minus Jack Wilson, of course. They need sympathy more than anything.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To extend that line of thought one step further...

Okay, so we have (assuming 16 games between each NL Central team):
Cubs: 162-0 (assuming we can find a left-handed slugger, of course—otherwise, we’re no better than 48-114 ;-) )
Astros: 138-24 (swept by Cubs, split Pirates)
Pirates: 138-24 (swept by Cubs, split Astros)
Cards: 16-146 (as you discussed)
Brewers: 16-146 (ditto)
Reds: 16-146 (ditto)
Then the ‘Stros & Bucs have to play Game 163 to see which 138-win team doesn’t make the playoffs Beautiful, eh? :)

…this is apparently how my mind works when I should be going to bed.

by MarchHare on Dec 5, 2008 1:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs