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More Peavy reports---Rosenthal & Olney

Seems that the Greene dump has nothing to do with the mysterious 3rd team that Towers was said to involve the Cubs and an expected Peavy trade and Rosenthal reports:

The Cubs continue to speak daily with the Padres about a trade for right-hander Jake Peavy, according to a source with knowledge of the discussions. The teams still might need to involve a third team, the source said, but that team — at least for the moment — is not the Orioles. The possibility of the Orioles entering the talks surfaced when The Baltimore Sun reported about the team's renewed interest in outfielder Felix Pie and the Padres' continued interest in Orioles left-hander Garrett Olson ...

But Buster Olney says the deal is in play involving Vitters....as reported by MLBTradeRumors.

The Cubs and Padres "have a basic framework in place" for a Jake Peavy deal built around third baseman Josh Vitters.  Things may pick up after the Cubs' ownership situation is resolved.

Okay now that the Orioles are not the 3rd team the framework was a young pitcher of a certain high prospect level. The outside situation of the Cubs ownership appears to be a sign off of the extended liability that Peavy's contract has but again that does not diminish the who in this speculative mix.

Okay here is my deductive reasoning....Padres are in a box, Peavy has them by the buffalo oysters and the internals of the Padres demands the reduce their payroll to $40M. Here is the money lineup:

 

 

Star-divide

  • Giles $9M
  • Peavy $8M
  • Greene $6.5M  (traded for Worrell and PTBNL) Probably saving $5M
  • Young $4.5M
  • Gonzalez $3M

With Young, Giles and Gonzalez that is $16 M out of the $40M and the rest of the Padres appear to be below that Arbitration Line so they could field a team of $12-13M or about $29-30M or Florida like.

Trading Greene places Cedeno front center in any Peavy deal. Here is my thinking, Cubs are talking to Florida and KC. FL is talking about Nolasco and Hermida and KC is talking about Teahan and Greinke both pitchers are arb eligible. The question then is what do the Cubs have to offer besides Pie? 

Is KC or FL interested in Fontenot? For KC even though they offered Grudz arbitration are they interested in Fontenot?  FL has been rumored to consider trading Uggla to someone before he gets into big arb numbers? FL who wants to get faster would they consider Pie in CF and moving Maybin to RF?

The other team that could be the 3rd team is Minnesota as mentioned by DGU and the Cubs possibly looking at Kubin. What young pitcher would MN that might interest SD, but the problem is Twins have enough young OF'ers, although they might like DeRosa at 3B.

thought you guys might like to speculate on this.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Keith Law chat today on espn.com.....
Pete (Columbia): The Cubs don’t have the pieces to acquire Peavy, right?

 Keith Law: I think they do, or that they can get the right pieces by trading around a little bit. Remember that at this time last year we kept reading that the Mets didn’t have the pieces for Santana, and I said that was wrong. The price came down, and they got him for some magic beans.

He also fielded a Wood/Gregg question:

Adam (Roselle, IL): Why would the Cubs not offer Wood arbitration? Are they so afraid he would accept? They could use the pick.

 Keith Law: I guess they were afraid of his 10/5 rights … which is a horrible, horrible decision. Kerry Wood for one year and, what, $8 million? Yes, please, thanks. Cause, you know, Kevin Gregg ain’t the answer.

He’s pretty knowledgeable, having actually worked in a Front Office, unlike most of the chatters they have, so he sees Peavy to the Cubs as possible….and, like the rest of us, dumbfounded by the Wood move

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 3:11 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

damn block quotes
Keith Law: I guess they were afraid of his 10/5 rights … which is a horrible, horrible decision. Kerry Wood for one year and, what, $8 million? Yes, please, thanks. Cause, you know, Kevin Gregg ain’t the answer.

that was his response, sorry for the confusion

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is Olney up on the ownership issue?
Things may pick up after the Cubs’ ownership situation is resolved.

This is the second time I’ve seen this quote from him posted here. Is he aware that the timetable for this is months, not weeks? Much as I (and probably just about eveybody else here) would like to see the infusion of cash a new owner would probably provide, I don’t see the sale closing until the middle of next year at the earliest, and probably not until after the season ends.

by znohitter on Dec 4, 2008 3:13 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that shows any foreknowledge.

All it says is “after” the situation is resolved. Nothing as to a time frame, etc.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 3:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it shows any foreknowledge, either.

In fact, just the opposite; if the ownership issue isn’t resolved soon, his scenario becomes (at least partly) moot.

by znohitter on Dec 4, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am wondering if that is conjecture or how an ownership issue can be constued

One of things about negotiations is that the current ownership will say they will hold new liabilities to a certain point otherwise there is a subtraction to the final price.

Peavy would undoubtedly fall in that since his 2010-2012 liability is $52M, so it goes further than merely finding a way to fit Peavy into 2009’s budget ($11M). This gets cleared up when there is a final bid and final negotiations where the T’s are crossed and i’s dotted.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 4, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

When will the winning bid be announced?

Perhaps that is all that is required, and if that can be done in the next month or so, perhaps payroll can be increased. Or maybe they would simply ask the finalists to approve of any payroll adjustments.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We truly have no idea.

It’s possible they’ve run some payroll stuff by the bidders already — or maybe not. Impossible to know.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 4, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I Think We Are Fairly Confident...

… that Zell will balk at the exercising of the $22M 2013 option for Peavy.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 4:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Cubs would agree to that either

the question for Peavy is where do you want to go, the Padres are going poor. Seems I heard that Sutcliffe said it is the greatest place to play and secure your post player situation.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 4, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Announcement can come any time, who knows

But I would imagine that there is some protocol for the Cubs brass to approach perspective owners on large expenditures. If not, there is likely a hard cap that Hendry was given. If he wanted to surpass that, he’d have to go to Kenney and beyond.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 5, 2008 6:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The sale won't close for a while.

However, after the new owner is selected Zell (or Crane Kenney) will probably ask the new owner’s permission to take on a big contract.

The key right now is to figure out who the next owner will be…

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe your right...

…and there is a chance, the lead bidder (the one the Cubs will present to MLB) could be identified in short order (weeks). If so, they could run the thought of adding payroll by whoever that is, and possibly move forward on a thing or two, we’ll see.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 4, 2008 9:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Peavy Is Making $11M Next Year...

… because he won the Cy Young in 2007.

If Peavy is traded, it gets bumped up to $11.5M.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 3:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

getting Peavy is NOT worth giving up Vitters

I would trade Vitters but we already have an ace in Zambrano, and two great 2-3 starters in Harden and Dempster. I think the rotation is fine. Only think I’d do is try to get rid of Marquis’s salary and slot Marshall into the rotation

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 4, 2008 4:02 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

hilarious

yet again I say getting a cy young pitcher isnt worth a future ? prospect. I agree our rotation is ok but you never ever pass up a chance to add a pitcher of that caliber ever!!!

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 4, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right on

just remember when Dopirak and Harvey were the talk of the system. They didn’t amount to squat. Cy Young pitcher in MLB versus a guy who hasn’t played a full-season A-Ball league. You make this deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

by socalbob on Dec 4, 2008 4:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well, sure ...

if it’s a straight-up deal, you do Vitters for Peavy in a heart beat! But it won’t be just Vitters for Peavy (I’m guessing you already know that).

by elgato on Dec 4, 2008 5:22 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

for what I have heard all the other players are replaceable

here is how you rate players:

A level stars, (Cy Young pitchers are in this class) they are difference makers potential HOF players, not replaceable (another year like last year and Soto & Marmol are in this category)

A- very good players who compliment or support star or difference makers, hard to replace. Cubs have many of these, Soriano, Ramirez, Lee, Zambrano, Soto

B players, replaceable but good support players; Dempster, Lilly, DeRosa, Harden, Wood

C players, interchangable support players; Theriot, Fontenot, Reed, Fukudome, Marquis, Samardz,

D players expendable support players; Cedeno, Blanco, Gregg, Cotts, Wuertz, Guzman, Marshall

D- Marginal roster players, Ward, Pie,

Now when you trade marginal (albeit young), expendable, interchangeable, even replaceable players by definition you can replace them—-the question for the club is at what cost. When you trade league minimums who are at this level productivity can vary—-
Let us look at Theriot who had the best OBP and BA on the team and yet he scored ONLY 85 Runs——and his fielding was quite suspect with the lowest Range Factor although his ZR was just below average.

With half as many bats Fontenot had the same Run average but with more pop and if Theriot played his natural position they are interchangeable—their value is that they only cost $450,000 +/- Trading either one will result in the Cubs having to probably spend more money but productivity changes will be marginal.

Extend that up and down the process categories and you see how $$ effects productivity—-look at Manny Ramirez he was a HOF A player where they got Nady who was very good and hit HR’s and fielded his position but Manny goes to LA and they get into the NLCS….Nady would not done that for LAD.

Peavy is that kind of player…he immediately makes Z, Dempster, Lilly and Harden better…..where each face the lower rotation pitcher more often and dominate the game as Peavy will also.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 4, 2008 5:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you could make a case easily against Peavy

for example is ERA on the road last season was 4.28. Petco has definitely influenced his numbers.

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 4, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is what I've been saying for a month and a half...

… ever since these rumors got started.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

sample size Al

go back and review his 3-year history. And more importantly how did he fare against the Central. He sucked at Coors and Chase Field—hardly a condemning fact. Very hitter friendly ballparks.

2 games at Great American – 2.41 ERA with a BAA of .246
3 games at Minute Maid – 3.15 ERA with a BAA of .227
1 game at PNC Park – 1.29 ERA with a BAA of .167
2 games at Busch – 2.77 ERA with a BAA of .220
2 games at Miller Park – 5.06 ERA with a BAA of .286

His record as a road pitcher against the Central – 6 and 3. Not certainly a middle of the road starter as people want to offer to this group.

by socalbob on Dec 5, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You left off his Wrigley Field numbers.

1-1, 3.68 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, .306 BAA in four starts.

Small sample size, but bigger than any of those other parks. It’s worrisome.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

true

but he’s not going to pitch against the Cubs, so I didn’t see it as relevant. In my opinion, it’s more important to see what he’s done against the teams he will face. On the road against our division rivals, he’s still Cy Young material, not a “Petco-only” pitcher.

I was shocked to see his numbers versus MIL at Miller Park.

by socalbob on Dec 5, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it's relevant!

Pitching in a ballpark with its park factors is perfectly relevant to a pitcher’s record.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 5:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So

he’ll be facing the Cubs??

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 5, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, Ive come around to this way of thinking

If Peavy is in sight, you have to pull the trigger on that deal.

Vitters might be great, might not. And while we’re all fearing the cubs circa 2012ish, if it really is a precipitous drop-off, then Vitters alone isn’t going to save it, and I doubt the Cubs management will simply throw their hands up after Lee and Ramirez deals are up and Soriano ages less than gracefully and wait for the next baseball messiah

The team has the means to compete in the FA market, and while that would be easier with more homegrown players, Vitters wont be the sole bridge to the future.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 4:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would bet on this

with my life: after this current run at it all with this team—-were going to dumps for years!! no farm system, bad contracts etc. throw everything possible on the table for the next 2 years cause after that were gonna be in one big mess for awhile.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 4, 2008 4:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what if MLB contracts by 2012 where we are in this Great Recession

Today in a meeting with the Governor’s Office we discussed what appears to be the potential that this Recession we are in since Dec 2007 has actually been going on since the 2nd quarter of 2007….but masked by a number of things including BS economic reporting——go figure…

And that this Recession that is now going to be longer than any other since WWII might already be as long as 1981 and will go far deeper. What if MLB goes into the contraction that all feared….teams like Florida, Pittsburgh, KC and Det fail under bankruptcy …. there will be a reverse draft and teams will get infusion of young talent and MLB ready talent.

This could be what is in store…..

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 4, 2008 5:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hah! conspiracy theory, big market teams are causing this recession in hopes of dominating other small market teams!

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 4, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

what are you talking about

conspiracy….MLB is skewed to big market teams and will be until there is full blooded revenue sharing on all shared properties and a salary cap.

Otherwise it is like politics, law and business. You can be more incrementally innovative but unless you have breakthrough innovation big wins most of the time.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 5, 2008 9:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't take a joke?

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 5, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mmmm...

On paper that should be true, but this year, the top three payroll teams (the NY teams at #1 and #3 and the Tigers — HAHAHAHA — sorry — at #2) took October off. Numbers 4-8 (BoSox, ChiSux, Angels, Cubs, Dodgers) made it, along with Philly at #13, Milwaukee at #15, and — wait for it — Tampa Bay at #29 (with a payroll of $43.82 mill, or not quite 21% of the Yanks budget). And in 2007? The finalists were nos. 1 (NYY), 2 (BOS), 5 (LAA), 8 (CHC), 14 (PHI), 23 (CLE), 25 (COL), and 26 (ARI).

Having a big budget helps your chances of getting in to the post-season, but as the Steinbrenners have shown, you cannot (consistantly) buy a Series.

by znohitter on Dec 5, 2008 10:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

hah! conspiracy theory, big market teams are causing this recession in hopes of dominating other small market teams!

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 4, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Of course, it didn't have to be that way

and the decision to go that route was made by one man.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 6:48 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well said...

…and here is the bottom line; the Cubs are either going to win a championship in the next couple of years, or you will see a new baseball operations crew brought in, and a big effort to rebuild the entire system.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 4, 2008 9:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm....

CL22,

There are some Arizona Diamondbacks fans who would like a word with you…

It’s one thing to covet a Cy Young caliber pitcher, quite another to ruin your franchise’s finances for the next decade.

Cleaning out the whole farm system forces the team to continually sign FAs — who sometimes don’t work out as planned.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 6:20 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess that would be the benefit of having a lousy farms system

nothing to lose, right? As of right now we’re pinning our minor league hopes on a high school third baseman who hasnt played a full professional season yet and the Korean Derek Jeter.

so even if we hung onto Vitters, we still wouldnt have enough to transition after 2012,which would probably be his rookie year anyway…..so its looking thin after this decade anyway, so you gotta go for it now.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 6:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno about that...

With the addition of Eljaua yesterday, I have hopes (and see glimmerings) that Hendry is beginning to correct some of his mistakes in neglecting/abusing the farm system. The real question I have is whether it’s too little too late or whether they can get this thing turned around in time.

by znohitter on Dec 4, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I read that in the fanshot, but where in Pitts system is the evidence...

that this guy is going to make a difference? What great latino talent do the Pirates have that would suggest he can make a seed change in our international scouting?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 6:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

They have a training center in the DR...

… yeah… I can’t come up with any names (though I’m not really the right guy to answer that question; I have a hard enough time remembering the names of all our guys). BUT presumably this guy was hired (at least partly) for his connections and experience. Having somebody with good knowledge of the Latin American system can’t hurt, right?

by znohitter on Dec 4, 2008 6:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Latin American market is pretty transparent

Its been a source of talent for decades, so I dont see how that would be a big mystery. We do alright there: Marmol, Nolasco, Guzman looked good for a bit, Soto.

Its the draft where we’re lacking results

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 7:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we dont

have a full farm system, matter of fact we dont even have a avg farm system!! one of the worst I’ve ever seen. we have a ton of backloaded contracts and older players. at this point I dont give one rat’s a$$ about next year or the year after that etc. I wanna win now!! 101 years of this crap. no one knows what players will be the right choice but peavy is a real good guess. you can never have enough starting pitching of that caliber period!! you can pickup a hitter midseason, highly unlikely you can patch a starting rotation midseason.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 4, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm done with this "win now" crap.

Where did it get us this past season? Nowhere. Fast. I want the Cubs to build a strong organization that’s in contention – or at the very least competitive – every year. Part of that is at least maintaining the current farm system in the hopes of strengthening it in the future – as opposed to completely eviscerating it just because a sexy name like “Jake Peavy” comes along. Sure, maybe Vitters is merely a token at this point. A single star prospect in an otherwise foggy sky. But I’d prefer Hendry leave him off the table. Of course, that’s just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 5, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Bingo

The Marlins and Red Sox have both won several championships by developing good young talent and supplementing that with good free agent signings. Look at the Rays, as well.

I think the Yankees proved that neglecting the farm and tossing money at players is a model that no longer works. The Cubs are clearly more closer to the Yankees model than anything else.

by dr stabbingworth on Dec 5, 2008 10:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Slow down...

the Red Sox won one championship almost entirely based on free agents (Ramirez, Ortiz, Pedro, Schilling, Wakefield, Lowe, etc). They won their second championship based a BIT more on a combination of the two, but their championship was still based largely on an incredibly high payroll.

The Marlins’ first championship was largely not a product of their farm system either. Leiter, Brown, Fernandez, Nen, Bonilla, Alou, Sheffield, White, etc were all brought in through trades or free agency. Only Charles Johnson, Renteria, and Luis Castillo were products of their farm system.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

The World Series is a crapshoot

I don’t want to be like Florida and Tampa and be good once every 5-10 years.

Boston has won titles cause they have a huge budget.

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 5, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

always amazes me when people look at the Braves and consider them a failure

“all that talent, all those division titles, and sheesh – only one championship…”

Mule fritters! I think it just goes to show what a crapshoot winning the World Series really is. You need to be good to make the playoffs – after that it’s a combination of talent, timing, and just plain luck.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 5, 2008 10:25 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

And not just for the use of the phrase “mule fritters!”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 5, 2008 11:22 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Although come to think of it...

…I will hereby award ballhawk 50 BCB points for using the term “mule fritters.” For those of you keeping score at home, use of either “fungible” or “mule fritters” (or both) will earn you 50 BCB points. Please carry on with your discussion.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 5, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Fungible mule fritters!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 11:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree...

…especially with the Cub’s track record, I don’t see how anyone can say Vitters is too high a price to add a top notch pitcher. Add the fact, that Hendry has been in “go for it” mode since the end of 06, so you mine as well keep going, because the clock is ticking on this core group.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Dec 4, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What If...

… we are to trade Harden to get something of value back that meets our “lefty”, “athletic”, and “speedy” needs?

Keep Marshall as our number 5…

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be great, but unlikely

considering we gave up spare parts to get him in the first place.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Spare Parts?

It shouldn’t matter how we got Harden, but rather that we’re offering him up.

Imagine we get Peavy and keep Harden… that would be sick!

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 4, 2008 4:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The spare parts should give you an idea of Harden's trade value

Which probably isn’t much. It certainly hasn’t gone up, given that he couldn’t stay healthy here either.

by Wreckard on Dec 4, 2008 5:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that was my point

I would imagine theyd rather shed Marquis b/c his salary its higher and he’s the lesser of the two, but far more durable.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 6:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No way a Peavy trade goes down without including Marshall.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Vitters is a prospect

and nothing more. The thinking the Cubs had for so many years recently about their “great prospects” is a contributing factor to why they sucked so long.

I look at this situation in a similar manner as Rami and D-Lee coming here. Both of their previous teams needed to dump salary. They may or may not have been more desperate than the Pads now but those certainly weren’t as visible. I mean this whole thing with Moores finances and then Towers playing his hand to the media? Yikes!

Hendry has to find the right pieces to deal for Peavy so it doesn’t bust the Cubs in other areas. If he can do it, he will. If he can’t do it, he has other irons in the fire.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 5, 2008 6:24 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

I think, with Florida, anything is possible, although the indications of late had been that they wouldn’t deal Uggla. He may very well go to third base for them. Financially, they can handle the remaining contracts. I haven’t heard of any Nolasco rumors, and as for Hermida, they said they needed to be overwhelmed. One thing to keep in mind is their deep system, as they have a lot of OF prospects.

I’ll be surprised if Greinke goes anywhere. Teams have supposedly asked, but the demands are high, and justifiably so. A case can be made that trading for Greinke makes much more sense than trading for Peavy (younger and cheaper top of the rotation arm). Not impossible, but I think you’d have to fork over the moon for him, and I don’t think we have the moon, particularly since our top young piece is a corner IF, and their top two prospects are corner IF’s (Moustakas and Hosmer).

As for Minnesota, the question I would have is why would the Twins deal pitching right now? Their system pitching depth has thinned out a bit because of the promotions. Not impossible, but I think they’d want more than a 1 year stopgap in DeRosa (contract) or a guy like Theriot/Fontenot (leading Casilla to go to short).

I’m not suggesting those three teams are impossible, and of the three, I think the Marlins could be possible if they take high end value for one of their young minor league arms, although perhaps not with the names you’ve suggested (I don’t see them moving Nolasco). Anyhow, using Pie as a trade chip, I think the Mariners might be a team worth considering as an option, but they lacked developed high end pitching talent, and I’m not sure they fork over a top young arm so the deal would be a bit more complex. I’d slip the Yankees in there as a thought, with Gardner and Melky more backup types, so Pie may be of interest. That said, I don’t see them giving up Kennedy (as overrated as I think Kennedy is) for Pie in a 1v1. There’s probably a couple more possibilities.

by toonsterwu on Dec 4, 2008 4:19 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I think you are correct about the Twins' pitching.

I think that they would love a DeRo for Kubel trade, but wouldn’t give up a young SP.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If you are right

and the Cubs are talking about acquiring either Hermida/Nolasco or Teahen/Greinke, I say forget about Peavy and keep whichever of those two packages they might acquire. Arguably, if I had to trade for a pitcher right now, I could make a case for Greinkie being a better target than Peavy, because of the former’s upside and the league he plays in. Greinke was a freaking stud last year, amassing outstanding numbers in the tougher league, and he is only twenty five years old. When you consider that he is leaving the AL and coming to Wrigley and that Peavy will be leaving Petco, Greinke could very well be the better pitcher as soon as this year. Nolasco, while not as good as Greinke, was outstanding last year as well and when you consider the price tag he is more appealing than Peavy.

by dakoose on Dec 4, 2008 4:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

if I were to trade for a pitcher right now

I’d call Tampa and find out how much they want for Sonnanstine

by ScottT on Dec 4, 2008 5:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum, perhaps?

n/t

One day I hope to come up with something worthy of this space.

by chilango2 on Dec 4, 2008 5:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

we dont have what TB needs

Theyre in contention and will be for the foreseeable future, they dont need young guys or fillers, whereas SD is in full on 1998 Marlins style rebuilding.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 6:29 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Is it me or is this rumor worse than the Roberts stuff last year?

At least the Roberts rumors seemed to make sense, where the Peavy one doesn’t. First of all there have been very few rumors about Marquis being traded. Obviously this would have to happen BEFORE the Peavy deal. Not to mention Lou says it ain’t happening AND it would be adding more to the payroll.

Sorry i just don’t see it happening.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 4, 2008 5:33 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

see ...

I’m starting to think this could happen, now that the Braves have really moved on — and after hearing that the Cubs are in daily talks with San Diego.

The divorce of the Padres’ owner makes this situation different than last year with Roberts. San Diego NEEDS to make this deal, whereas Baltimore was never all that high on giving up Roberts (an Angelos favorite).

Final thought (totally out of nowhere): Could Harden’s arm stand up to eighth-inning duty?

by elgato on Dec 4, 2008 5:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bingo....different motivations and timetables

I heard the divorce wants emotional blood…like you can’t have your big toy anymore….and you will have to pay to keep it…..

Peavy also has the cards in that he has a NTC…..yes it diminishes his trade value for leverage is reduced and the Cubs can dictate things their way.

I say Peavy is in our corner by Christmas…

Cedeno is in a SD uniform and either Fontenot or DeRosa are playing somewhere else….my guess is DeRosa. Things are just too obvious on paper. When you look at it at 2B Fontenot and DeRosa are almost interchangeable in stats except for the left handed bat and $$$$ like $6M

SD likes Cedeno for he bats better than Greene with less HR but costs $6 less.

I also see that Giles is a Cub and three left handed bats in the everyday lineup…..with the best rotation on paper going into 2009. I also don’t see Theriot playing everyday at SS….he platoons with Fontenot at 2B and Theriot is the super utility player.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 4, 2008 6:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Who is your SS?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 6:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Omar Vizquel is available.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 5, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Giles

He isn’t going to be a Cub. He is rumored to have turned down trades last year to both the Cubs and Red Sox. He has a no trade clause and clearly has other priorities than winning.

by dmlichte on Dec 4, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Said this before

Giles turned down the trade to the Bosox because he’d sit. He wasn’t going to start. He’d then be traded again.

Last year, this premise was true — Giles wouldn’t leave. It no longer is. There have been intimations from his camp that he’d go, if traded to the right team. He’d waive that clause.
I keep repeating this here, but nobody seems to want to accept this turn of events.

He’s no longer married to the Padres. Surfing isn’t that much fun when your team blows.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 4, 2008 10:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Would he leave the west coast?

Neither the Dodgers nor the Angels are in dire need of 39 year old OFs. Would he go to the midwest? Atlanta? Philly?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 4, 2008 10:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I get the impression he'll go

to a team where he will start. Sure seems like he could be a Cub, if #1 goes to the CF platoon. Giles would be a quick-fix to solve the lead-off problem.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 4, 2008 10:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And I still say he's not leaving San Diego.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 8:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be surprised if he leaves too...

That said, if we are assuming that Fukudome doesn’t find MLB power, Giles would probably be a good fit in RF for a year or so. He still plays good defense in RF and his road splits suggest he could still be a solid #5 hitter. In other words, if he would leave SD, we could do worse.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 9:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with ya

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope you're right!

No saracsm here. If the finances can be bounded correctly by the Cubs, I think Giles would be the best overall fit the Cubs could get and it’d be only a 1 year minimum commitment.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 5, 2008 9:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure we'd get Giles as well....

But I dont see this as the same as Roberts last year. For one, Towers isnt attached at the hip with Peavy, like Angelos and Roberts.

Secondly, Towers is smarter than McPhail, b/c he actually understands theyre in a rebuilding mode and is attempting to get a return on his tradeable assets, however larger or small that may be.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Towers is smarter?

Seems his loud mouth has gotten boxed into a corner.

Everyone loves bashing MacPhail but he had the biggest one sided deal of the 2007 offseason with the Bedard steal.

by rlpete on Dec 5, 2008 8:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

re:

this was discussed in another thread, but take a serious look at where Towers started. I still believe, from a negotiating theory perspective and from a “real” perspective, that Towers had to talk. He was backed into a corner with the short straw before the negotiations began. He’s made mistakes along the way, but the whole idea that public negotiations are, by itself, a bad thing, is flawed when the sides don’t start out on an equal plane, for lack of a better term.

by toonsterwu on Dec 5, 2008 8:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon

First of all let me be clear, Jake Peavy will NOT be a Padre on opening day. Nor will he be a Cub.

-Where do we send Jason Marquis? Surely you don’t see him in our bullpen.
-Why the Cubs would pass on expanding the budget with Wood, but okay it for Peavy.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 4, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and the above Giles points.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 4, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See MY Giles points above

Guys, I live in the market. I see the rumors you people don’t see, OK? I also work at a broadcast facility which houses a Sportstalker. I ask the talent what they have heard. This is what they are finding out. Giles would LOVE to stay here. But the Padres situation is now toxic.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 4, 2008 10:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying you're a liar

I just don’t believe those “rumors”

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Expanding the budget

Right now, we’re paying our rotation 50 M or so. The only one of those pitchers you replace with Peavy who ups the budget more than change is Harden. Swap Lilly and Peavy and you actually save money.

In Wood’s case, we supposedly save 4-8 M dollars by downgrading to the DFATBNL.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Besides

either the Wood-chuck wasn’t about money or Kerry is a liar.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't rule out option B...

although I wouldn’t use words that harsh. It’s easy to spin it and look like the good guy by saying that he’d do anything to come back when he knows that the door has been closed.

It could also be something else entirely, but the cynic in me can’t rule out the possibility that Wood may be putting on the “loyal soldier” front a bit here.

by SouthernCub on Dec 4, 2008 8:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's possible

but it seems less likely to me since he’s taken discounted deals in the past.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 4, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

True, although...

he hasn’t been in as good a position to make big money when he took those discounted deals.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 9:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Slight edit...

We’re actually paying our rotation almost $60 million (Zambrano $17.75, Dempster $12, Lilly $12, Harden $7, and Marquis $9.875). Just further emphasizes the point about the budget. We’re already over $120 million in budget right now. Now I don’t know what the budget will be, but the Kerry Wood decision makes it seem pretty clear we’re pushing the limits.

by SouthernCub on Dec 4, 2008 8:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

EXACTLY!

Thanks for backing me up with actually “numbers” and “facts.” Apparently people find these helpful

Someone has yet to explain to me why we would spent more money on the least of our problems, when we still have glaring holes.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:07 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

because there are no "good" answers for those glaring holes, only "bad" ones - or at best "questionable".

Dunn, Furcal, Abreu, Ibanez, Greene, Giles, Hermedia, Scott,, etc. None of them are bona fide good answers for our primary problem areas (LH slugger, RF, leadoff, SS) – they all have downsides.

Now if you tell me the Cubs have a chance at trading for Grady Sizemore or Hanley Ramirez, then I would agree with you on the “why are we wasting our time with Peavy” thinking. But that ain’t gonna happen.

What you really should be questioning is the merits of picking up a quality starting pitcher now ON THE CHEAP even though our starting pitching is already in good shape, versus doing nothing and holding on to that money/trading chips in the hopes that a good answer for our holes will be available later (spring training, trading deadline, etc.).

I’d rather pick up that quality starting pitcher now ON THE CHEAP and see what happens down the road. You can always trade one of those starters if a “good” answer comes along. Teams will always need good pitching.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 5, 2008 10:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree with your assertion that we would be getting Peavy "on the cheap".

This is what is likely to be the cost of trading for Peavy given that the Cubs already have a lot of guaranteed contracts and probably only have a $130M-$135M payroll for 2009:

1. Trade Pie, Cedeño, Marshall, and Vitters to SD (and/or a 3rd team)
2. Dump Marquis, eating $2M and not getting any prospects
3. Have a LHB RF named Kubel, Scott, or Teahen (if we are lucky)
4. Dump DeRo to save money, LBR plays every day
5. Dump Harden (or Lilly) to save money
6. Have Spellcheck or Hart as the #5 starter
7. Dump Wuertz and Gaudin to save money
8. Have no flexibility for a deadline deal
9. Pay Peavy, who has had elbow issues, $11.5M in 2009, $15M in 2010, $16M in 2011, $17M in 2012, and will probably have to guarantee the 2013 option at $22M

If the Cubs were using Mark Cuban’s checkbook, I would say “great”! However, in the real world Peavy’s contract (along with Sori’s and Z’s) would strangle this franchise for the next decade.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 5, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:02 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's not entirely accurate...

4. Wouldn’t have to happen – Marquis basically matches Peavy’s salary if you drop Gaudin (which may very well happen)
5. Wouldn’t have to happen
6. Wouldn’t have to happen, because you’d have Zambrano, Peavy, Dempster, Lilly, and Harden.

Moving either Lilly or Marquis/Gaudin balances out Peavy’s salary next year. After next year, the payroll drops further. Your scenario makes things look much worse than the reality would be.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs' payroll is already at $136M for 2009

If you substitute Peavy for Marquis, you are at $137M. If the Cubs’ payroll is not going north of $130M (which was what Crane Kenney said), the Cubs will have to trade Harden to get down to $130M, then trade DeRo to create salary space for Teahen (or whoever).

If you dump Marquis without adding Peavy, you have $4M for a LHB without dumping Harden or DeRo.

That is why I added the disclaimer about Mark Cuban’s checkbook. And I’m not even considering 2010.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 5, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think that salary estimate is correct...

It’s at about $121 right now for the guys under contract, which doesn’t include the minimum salary guys and arbitration guys. Those guys aren’t going to cost $16 million. It’s probably closer to $130 million.

The question is whether or not the salary is going to exceed $130 million. I haven’t seen a quote from Kenney about $130 million. If you have such a quote, then it’s a matter of making sure that you balance Peavy’s cost with what you remove. Trading Lilly brings you a slight savings for Peavy. Trading Lilly and dumping Gaudin gives you enough to get Peavy and a cheap RF. Trading Marquis and dumping Gaudin gives you enough for Lilly and a league minimum RF.

I’m not saying I expect to get Peavy. I’d be silly to expect to get Peavy. I’m just saying to say it has no chance or that it absolutely won’t make us a better team is also silly.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let me second the request for the 130 M quote.

One of the big questions for me this off-season is whether we have 130, 140, or somewhere in between.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 5, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I saw it very early in the off-season.

A much scarier (and more recent) quote comes from Carrie Muskat:

Summary: The Cubs’ ownership situation is still in flux. Even though management says it’s business as usual, they do have a limited budget. Plus, the team has several long-term contracts that bump up in 2009. Expect the final payroll to be slightly higher than the $120 million spent in 2008.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 5, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's certainly not a quote...

And it’s certainly not direct from Kenney. I wonder if Muskat even realizes that the payroll is already at $121 million with only 11 players.

I’m guessing that’s more of a guess on her part. It’s possible that that is based on discussions with Kenney, but I wouldn’t be dismissing things based on what Muskat said there. Remember: she said we were going to offer Wood arbitration, so it’s not like she’s necessarily right on the pulse of the organization’s braintrust.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 1:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My thought has been that the Cubs

have been keeping their final payroll # a secret as they negotiate with players and teams.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 5, 2008 2:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree with that...

It doesn’t make sense to proclaim the payroll limit. That would potentially hurt the team in negotiations with other teams.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

All righties in our rotation?

No thank you

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Did I say that was the only option?

No, I didn’t. I just said it’s a POSSIBLE option.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We Just Got Word That...

…payroll is likely landing between $140 – $145M.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 7, 2008 12:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

my responses

1. Marshall and Vitters (and spare parts)? I don’t think that would be the package – if it is, then that’s approaching market value and no longer cheap.
2. If it’s a straight dump, you get salary relief. otherwise, the more $ you eat, the more you get back in trade.
3. And you’d rather have Dunn, Abreu or Ibanez (and the downsides associated with each)?
4. I’ve said before I wouldn’t effectively trade DeRo in order to get Peavy. That’s no longer on the cheap.
5. You don’t ‘dump’ the likes of Harden or Lilly. You’re bound to get a decent return on each of them, probably more for Lilly.
6. Too many things would all have to happen to make this likely
7. Again, I wouldn’t consider trading decent bullpen arms to fall under the “dumping” category
8. Hmm… a quality starting pitcher to trade isn’t flexibility?
9. I presume the Cubs medical staff would do their due diligence.

I don’t doubt your budget calculations – all I’m saying is if we can get Peavy for Vitters and spare parts (my definition of “on the cheap”), we should do it, even if it does put us over the perceived payroll limit of $130M. It just makes too much baseball sense not to. I’m sure a business man like Ricketts or Cuban would understand the concept of acquiring undervalued assets. (insert Zell and acquiring overvalued assets joke here)

Of course, I’d rather shoot my wad (be it prospects, players or $) on a proven leadoff hitter or LH slugging RF, but they’re just not out there. But a proven starting pitcher is.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 5, 2008 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

why isnt he cheap???

lets look at a few cy young salaries—cc stands to make around 25 million a year, johan is making 23 million and their alot older. were paying big z 18 million and how many cy youngs does he have?? how many 20 win years does he have??

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 5, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

if

your saying kerry wood is of equal value or has more value than a cy young award winning 27 yr old starter than you are very very wrong. wow!! that statement you made was hysterical and/or sickening I cant decide which. since when do we not expand payroll for a #1 starter?? omg

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 4, 2008 9:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't

I’m simply pointing out that if the Cubs didn’t want to bring back Kerry (the franchise player) back because of financial reasons, I find it hard to believe that they would expand the budget for Peavy.

I’m not even advocating against Peavy. In fact I would love to add him. However it does not add up that the Cubs end up with him. I’m still waiting for you or someone to explain to me the situation in which that happens.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't answer that...

but I can say that rational decision making isn’t necessarily a given. Ultimately, whatever Piniella and Hendry decide we need is what we’ll get, whether it’s based on a rational thought process or not.

Also, I don’t think that getting Peavy is a bad thing in the first place, provided you find a taker for Marquis. Getting Peavy just increases the likelihood of having an “ace” starter available in the playoffs, and increases the likelihood of making the playoffs in the first place.

It all depends on what we do to address the “LH bat” problem. If that can be addressed relatively cheaply, then getting Peavy makes sense to me.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't see anyone making a strong case on why the Cubs will get him

Marquis isn’t likely to go.
The budget is tight this offseason.
We still need to find a lefty bat.
We don’t really have the pieces to get him.

Sure it would be nice to add Peavy, but once again I say it doesn’t add up that we will.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if we will or not...

because I don’t know what the likelihood of trading Marquis is.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Everyone keeps saying it would be nice to get Peavy, but no one is saying how they think we get it done. It just doesn’t add up.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It adds up...

IF Marquis can be traded. It’s not my job to figure out HOW Marquis gets traded, because I have no inside information into what the GMs think. Based on the reports that suggest the Cubs are still interested, I would have to think that either (a) the reports are false (which is possible), or (b) Hendry has some gameplan for making it add up (which is also possible).

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

see the above rec'd post by deromyhero

there are so many chips that would have to fall into place in order to get peavy, i just don’t see them all falling

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See my reply...

DeRo exaggerated the number of chips required. It’s as “simple” as: #1, then either trading Lilly or trading Marquis and not offering Gaudin arbitration.

The only question is whether or not Hendry can create a package to make the Peavy trade happen and whether he can find a suitor for Marquis (or Lilly). I don’t know the answers to either of those questions, but it’s not nearly as complicated (or as dire) as DeRo suggests.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait

So let me get this straight. You are suggesting that we trade our only lefty in the rotation OR coming up with a miracle suitor for Marquis?

There are a ton of FA starters out there that are better options that our boy Jason. Even if we do find somebody, we probably have to eat a couple million just to add a pitcher that increases our payroll.

And all this happens while we still have the problem of finding a left handed bat and a lefty in the bullpen? This isn’t going to happen.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A ton?

Name three.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously not naming the big FA's

I believe that the following are going to get a Marquis type salary and would be better options.

Oliver Perez
Randy Johnson
Ben Sheets
Wolf
Pettitte

I think you could even make arguments that a team would rather sign Penny, Looper, or Garland rather than trade for Marquis.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The value of Marquis

is that he only gives you a one-year commitment and may well be a Type B FA, which is gold, because it’s easier to offer arb.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 5, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a fair point

And I would assume the trade would basically be a salary dump for the Cubs, with nothing coming in return. Alla Abreu to the Yankees from the Phillies

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We might be able to get something

but it’s not going to be anything obviously good.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 5, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not suggesting anything...

you’re saying that it is not possible to get Peavy or that it’s not possible that getting Peavy makes us a better team. I’m just presenting arguments to the contrary.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all

I think it’s utterly possible. I think it would make us a better team for ‘09. However I don’t think it’s probable.

I’m still waiting to hear why getting rid of our only lefty in the rotation is a good idea.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's a good idea if...

Peavy is a better pitcher. There’s no rule that having a LH starter makes you suddenly a better team. We can debate that if you want, but it’s a bit off topic.

Regardless, I’m still waiting to hear why you think trading Lilly is the only option for getting Peavy.

But if you agree that it’s possible to get Peavy AND that it would make us better next year, then I’m not sure why you’re arguing with me. That’s all I’m saying.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You suggested trading Lilly

Not me. I think that idea is ridiculous.

You’re right, I’m not at all arguing with you on the merits of Peavy. I’m simply saying that all the stars would have to align in order to get Peavy and that is highly unlikely.

Moreover it makes the ‘09 Cubs better, but I’m not so sure about the ’10 or ’11 Cubs.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't suggest it...

I said it was a way that Peavy could be obtained. I didn’t say whether it was a good idea. I ALSO said trading Marquis was a way to do it (along with dumping Gaudin). For some reason, you latched on to the Lilly thing.

My point is that there aren’t THAT many stars that have to align. I certainly don’t think it’s likely, but I think it’s very possible.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well you mentioned Lilly

and that was enough to set me off. Having all righties in the rotation is not a good idea.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 1:08 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, I'm a bit more indifferent...

If I had five Tim Lincecum’s, I’d be okay with not having a LH starter. A rotation of Zambrano, Dempster, Peavy, Harden, and Marquis wouldn’t be as good as Zambrano, Dempster, Peavy, Lilly, and Harden. But I wouldn’t be crying about that rotation either.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

See my reply above.

The problem is that the Cubs are already over their projected payroll budget for 2009. Unless the ownership situation is resolved quickly in favor of someone supporting a $140M payroll, the Peavy contract will create major problems.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 5, 2008 12:21 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree a bit on payroll, but either way...

the rumors suggest that a Peavy deal wouldn’t come until there’s more clarity on the ownership situation anyway.

Again, I don’t expect it to happen. But I think it reasonably could happen, and it wouldn’t take a cascade of things for it to happen.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

how do you know either

you dont know where peavy will be on opening day! unless you can give me some sorta proof.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 4, 2008 9:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon

It’s just my opinion, we both know no one knows how this situation will end up. Why even post something like that?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

After seeing

the deal the Sox just made with the Braves for Vazquez, I am thoroughly convinced we can dump Marquis. Maybe not for much in return, but I think we can get someone to take on that 1 year commitment.

by jbertram on Dec 5, 2008 10:00 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The one thing Marquis has done with consistent success...

…is show up for work every fifth game. With all the uncertainties the Yankees went through with their rotation this past season, they might look to Jason for just that kind of a stabilizing presence. I would presume their offense could give him enough run support to at least maintain his career winning percentage (.530). Maybe that’s just wishful thinking, though.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by dat cubfan daver on Dec 5, 2008 10:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know if I'd give up DeRo

just because of his versatility. Remember, Rami may not always be 90-100%. If he isn’t, bam! you have your 3B sub. RF having issues? bam! you have your RF sub. 2B? He can always be there, then there’s the spot SS or 1B if needed. He’s too valuable to let go unless the Cubs have redundancy at those positions most every game day.

I do like the Cedeno comment and would like Giles myself but don’t see the Cubs taking that financial responsibility w/o dumping other salary.

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 5, 2008 6:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

some what agree

i agree if we can get Peavy pull the trigger if its not going to cost us too much! any trade that involves DeRo I have to say NO! since joining the cubs his numbers have not been MVP like but at the same time he is a MVP of this team. There are not many players out there that will do anything to help his team like DeRo has done! as good as Peavy is i think I would rather see DeRo playing everyday at the numerous positions he has played for us rather than Peavy pitching every 5th day. I can let go with Cedeno maybe even LBR but not DeRo! I really dont think LBR could even play successfully +140 games like DeRo could. LBR is good i like him but but to this point I like him better as a utility player or platooning with DeRo and Theriot.

by bizzle4 on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Its not Lous choice...

Hes only here till 2010, Jimbo just signed on for four years, Peavy’s only 27, so this makes sense in a lot of ways. Its not for Piniella to decide the long term direction of the team, its up to Hendry, Kenney and the person who guessed the Highest Actual Retail Price.

There will be a market for Marquis, he’ll make less than 10M, which is a bargain, it wont unfold for a few more weeks, but it’ll be there. He’s healthy, can hit and run and was the best no 5er in the league last year.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont think so...

I said its not Lous choice b/c hes only here for 2 more seasons, I pointed out why Marquis would be valuable to other teams? I didnt mean to imply hes not valuable to us, simply that if we got Peavy, then Marquis would have some selling points.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 4, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay

that reads a lot differently now that you say that

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Griffey to the Reds redux?

I am starting to wonder if Peavy has basically told the Padres to deal him to the Cubs. It seems pretty odd that a Cy Young pitcher is being shopped and there is no market for him. Sure, there are a number of decent pitchers on the FA market, but still…

Eamus Ursuli!

by WGNstatic on Dec 4, 2008 8:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm been saying that from the beginning

Peavy’s earlier comments regarding “not wanting to go to a team that gives up too much to get him” was his way of saying, send me to the Cubs or don’t send me anywhere.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally! WGNstatic gets what I've been trying to say for weeks!!!

Peavy will be a Cub. This deal will stay on table until the Cubs can finally get all the parts or until John Moores says — Enough. Get Rid of Him!

This is going to happen. All of the inside stuff I’ve heard says it will happen.

Of course, nothing is for certain. But I contend Al will owe me dinner, eventually.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 4, 2008 10:28 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

We'll see.

Many times, the “inside stuff” people have heard never happens.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The Cubs need to stop this Peavy Stuff right now

Did they not learn anything from last year’s offseason? The Mets showed us how to bluff a guy off a set with a duece seven. The Twins tried to push the Mets off their hand, but they didn’t even blink,

We should be doing the same thing with the Padres, we don’t need Peavy and we need to start acting like it. We need to show the Padres that we are indifferent about it, we will take him at the right price, but if the price is too high, we have alternatives.

In about 6 weeks, the Padre’s will be getting desparate and they will be calling us, that’s when we pounce if we still want Jake. The longer this goes on, the more uneasy the Padre’s owner will get and how impatient Jake Peavy will get, because he does not want to be on the 100 loss 09’ Padres!

Come on Jim Hendry, learn to bargain from a position of power. Did they not teach you that in GM school?

I would actually prefer to keep Vitters, I think he’s going to be a real good player in 2010. People say we have no spot for him? Yea right, he will go right to 3b when he’s ready. Aramis Ramirez is destined to be a 1B, it’s just a matter of time. Ideally, we could unload Derrek Lee to the Angels and get us Chone Figgins and maybe Josh Vitters will be our opening day 3B in 2010.

Stranger things have happened. Look how fast Ryan Braun, Evan Longoria, and Alexi Ramirez came on the scene!

by MrShowtime on Dec 5, 2008 12:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

re: Vitters readiness

There’s a big difference – the first two (Braun/Longoria were college bats), and the latter was an experienced Cuban player. Is it possible that Vitters is ready by 2010? Nothing’s impossible, but even a best case scenario for him in 2009 probably has him ending up in AA. Would the Cubs jump him after that? Again, not impossible, but I’m not sold. Vitters showed improvement this past year, but it was still only in shortseason ball.

by toonsterwu on Dec 5, 2008 4:18 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

a side note about vitters

this wasn’t worthy of a thread and I’m too lazy to do a fanshot or whatever it’s called. But if you’ve been following Jon Mayo’s top 50 prospects on MiLB.com, something very interesting is going to happen. Either he will name Josh Vitters a top 10 prospect, which is a bit surprising, or he will have Vitters outside of the top 50, which would be a bit surprising as well.

by toonsterwu on Dec 5, 2008 4:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Vitters is likely to arrive in 2011...

… which is just about the time that a lot of the current group will either be ending contracts or declining.

As of now, I keep him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 8:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Hendry did get taught that stuff at GM school

as you so put it. If he didn’t, he would have sent SD the farm for Peavy 3 weeks ago. He knows he bargaining from the power position. Peavy’s full NTC has SD by the balls.

Hendry has several options and he’s evaluating all of them. We hear less than 1% of what is going on in discussions. If Jimbo can get Peavy for the pieces that won’t leave the Cubs at a weakness in other positions (including other potential moves), he’ll do it. If not, he’ll move on. It’s just the timing of everything, the winter meetings starting soon and all of us being somewhat jumpy about the off-season and what happened on Oct 1st, 2nd & 4th…

Sweet Lou for Mayor in '11.

by blackhawk24 on Dec 5, 2008 6:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

What?

Hendry and Piniella have already said that starting pitching isn’t a priority. They are doing exactly what you are suggesting.

by rlpete on Dec 5, 2008 8:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And don't forget

Braun and Longoria came out of college and Ramirez was a Cuban defector who was 26 last season.

Trust me Josh Vitters will not be ready to start in 2010.

by rlpete on Dec 5, 2008 8:39 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.

2011 is more likely.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 8:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ive got a question and I dont wanna make a diary for it

Im reading from a couple different anlyists that Brian Giles would be a perfect fit for the cubs if he waived his no trade claus. I dont have the links but i have heard some people talk about it here. What am I missing? He hasnt done much the last 3 or 4 seasons to make him the “Big Bat” the cubs need. Like i said what am I missing?

by Kchance on Dec 5, 2008 9:05 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

+1

I don’t see it either.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Dec 5, 2008 9:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Posting this in two diaries is a bit excessive...

As has been said in the other diary in which you posted, look at his road splits. His numbers have been heavily tanked by playing in Petco. His road splits are still quite productive. He’s not a panacea in RF and the #5 spot, but for a year or two he’s probably better overall than the other options out there.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 9:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I want no part of Giles

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

1 year of Giles is better than 2-3 years of Ibanez

Plug him out there for one year and take a look at the free agent class next year.

by dr stabbingworth on Dec 5, 2008 10:42 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather

Put DeRo out there full time.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

DeRo doesn't bat left-handed.

The Gospel according to Lou says that the Cubs’ RF must be a LHB.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 5, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Technically, no...

The gospel says “we need a LH power bat.” It just happens that the only realistic place to put such a bat is in either RF or CF, because we have every other position filled and there aren’t LH power bats playing 2B available on the market.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 11:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that brings down the offense...

because then you’re replacing Giles’ bat with a 2B bat. Unless you expect Fontenot to replicate his 2008 part-time stats as a full-time player, that’s going to result in a downgrade offensively AND defensively (Giles is a better RF defensively than DeRosa, and DeRosa is better at 2B than Fontenot).

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah ha

Here is where Roberts comes in. Sure he’s isn’t the power source we are looking for, however he would allow Sori to move down in the lineup, gives us another LHB (although it wouldn’t break up the righties), and gets DeRo the bats he deserves.

I’ve given up on the idea that there is a good enough option out there that fills our power LHB hole. Time to go to plan B.

For whatever reason, I think DeRo is the type of player that would work his ass off in the offseason to improve his outfield skills if he KNEW that was his everyday spot.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh not at all

but I personally think it makes a lot of sense.

Our starting pitching is not the problem. The Cubs bats go cold in the post season. I think getting a true leadoff guy (see ’03 Lofton) helps reduce the pressure felt by the big bats. It adds a left handed bat. It adds speed. It fills the right field hole.

With that being said, it’s not going to happen. Not only has there been ZERO rumors of that happening, we also all know how well that went last year.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Then we mostly agree on this issue...

I’m really only interested in talking about potentially reasonable possibilities. At this point, after last offseason, I’d say there’s roughly a zero percent chance of getting Roberts. There’s at least SOME chance of getting the other guys being discussed.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would say there is about the two are equally likely

Slim to no chance.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

mainly because there is a decided interest on the Padres’ part to dump salary, whereas Angelos does not have an interest in trading his pet player.

I don’t think getting Peavy is in any way likely, but I’d say the possibility is definitely greater to get Peavy than it is to get Roberts.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait we disagree on this topic.....

NO WAY!

I think Peavy get’s traded, just not to the North side.

I think it’s fair to say neither of us are going to budge. I think it’s time to n/t this conversation.

Before we do so, I think we should agree to this. The day Peavy’s fate is decided, the person who is wrong needs to post a fanshot praising the other’s baseball smarts haha. Deal?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well that's not really fair to me...

I’m saying getting Peavy is possible, but definitely not likely. You’re saying there’s virtually no chance. Peavy going elsewhere doesn’t make me wrong, nor does it make you right.

The only way one of us could be proven right is if Peavy comes here. If he doesn’t come here, then it just proves that we were both right that it was unlikely. We’d never really know exactly how unlikely it was.

by SouthernCub on Dec 5, 2008 1:10 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's just combine all these San Diego rumors with the Brian Roberts rumors and...

…just bring Bip Roberts out of retirement!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 5, 2008 1:12 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Haha I love it

Shouldn’t you be cracking open your first Old Style by now?

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 5, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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