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Alderson Confirms Towers Statement On Peavy

From today's San Diego Union-Tribune:

Padres CEO Sandy Alderson said the club has the payroll flexibility to open the season with Peavy, who won the Cy Young Award in 2007.

"To the extent reducing payroll was an issue, it becomes less of an issue following Khalil's trade," Alderson said. "But Peavy's situation has always been addressed as a baseball question. We never intended to trade Jake unless it made baseball sense. I think that is still the case.

"This is going to be first and foremost a baseball decision."

Now, that doesn't mean there isn't a deal out there that would benefit both the Cubs and Padres involving Peavy. But if there isn't, it is clear that Peavy will at least begin 2009 in a San Diego uniform.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Al...

I feel bad for some of the pounding that you’ve been taking over this, but I’ve got to say, the harder and more frequent that they sell this, the more credibility that they lose. “Doth protest too much”.

This is simply the more traditional use of the media to sell a position that they should have been incorporating all along. I’d look for a profound piece from the same rag in advance of the Winter Meeting making the fine points of why Peavy should stay to accompany this, or some rumor that the Padres shook off a mystery suitor early next week..

The problem isn’t Jake’s 2009 contract; never was. It’s the possibility that they are somehow stuck absorbing the full 64 million on this contract somehow. Moores simply cannot have this sort of long-term liability on the books for the near future.

Peavy’s gone; maybe not to Chicago, but certainly has thrown his last pitch for San Diego. And the Padres braintrust can double-talk and pump up the rhetoric all they like in an attempt to appear disinterested and reset the negotiating table, but the saavy executives aren’t biting. As Towers so aptly put it himself, “the train has left the station”.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 7, 2008 6:43 AM CST reply actions  

We'll see.

I can’t believe they’d make these statements unless they meant them.

However, you’re right, both Alderson & Towers left open the possibility of trading them if the deal is right. Remember, Towers’ “train has left the station” comment was made before the Greene deal.

You’re right about the long-term liability. That means a deal at the trading deadline seems the more likely outcome, because more desperate teams then are likely to make a better offer.

That’s when I expect him to be dealt, not now.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 7:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Two things

First – If you were the Padres with a mandate to cut costs, is there anyway you weren’t going to trade Greene’s last year under your control, whether Peavy was going or not? That’s why I don’t think Greene changes things.

Second – You keep assuming more teams will be in on Peavy at the deadline but the reality is more teams should be in now if getting Peavy is possible for those teams. There are plenty of teams that have the players to trade and would be glad for Peavy’s below-market deal. Take the Orioles, for example. They have pitching to trade and money to spend. Peavy is young, so he’d still probably be good by the time they’re ready to compete. Plus, landing Peavy could go a long way towards getting Teixeira to consider coming to them. Why are the O’s in on this as a three-way trade partner instead of trying to get him themselves? The answer seems to be – Peavy’s severely limited his destinations.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 7:55 AM CST up reply actions  

he controls his destiny

`and at this point might only want to play for the cubs… he can decide where he wants to play

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on Dec 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Correct.

Or maybe he’d agree to go elsewhere. None of us can read his mind.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

I think he'd go other places

I truly believe he’s using back door channels to force Tower’s hand. He wants to be a Cub, but at the end of the day I think he’d rather play for a contender (i.e. Yankees) rather than be apart of a rebuilding project.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 7, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Peavys list of approved teams might not change in July though

And we’d all be in the same boat as we are now

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Add this

Al, if San Diego would have plans to deal Peavy by the trading deadline, don’t overlook the fact that they’d be taking a pretty reasonable risk that something happens that would negatively affect his value by then. Injury is the obvious risk but additionally, no matter how he and his agent would want to spin it, there would be pretty good chance Peavy wouldn’t be in a very good frame of mind from Opening Day forward with all of the rumors swirling about his destination since November. He would undoubtedly play the good soldier and say that he’s in San Diego and that’s where his interest lies but he’d be kidding himself. As it would be likely that would happen, there would be a better than average chance his performance suffers even more than you would expect while pitching for one of the potentially worst teams in the NL.

Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?

by krummy12 on Dec 7, 2008 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

He pitched for one of the worst teams in the NL last year, too.

Didn’t bother anything but his W-L record.

I just think the Cubs have other priorities, and to decimate the farm system for some convoluted three-team deal isn’t worth it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Al, you still

don’t understand the plight of the Padres. None of the rhetoric that comes out of Petco Park is to be believed.

Peavy won’t throw a pitch in the regular season for the Friars. If he does — he’ll be gone by the deadline. But I don’t expect that.

At the risk or repeating myself time and time and time again — they must reduce their payroll per John Moores.

This is just to appease the fans, to make them…maybe, just maybe — believe they won’t lose a Cy Young Winner in a fire sale

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 7, 2008 9:06 PM CST up reply actions  

You know what...

… regardless of what you are or aren’t hearing locally in San Diego, neither you nor I knows exactly what is going on behind closed doors in their offices.

For you to make a blanket statement like this ignores that reality.

I promise I won’t order an expensive dinner.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Further...

…. I find it difficult to understand why everyone was so eager to believe the “train has left the station” comment, which to me was kind of cryptic, and then the same people refuse to believe Alderson and Towers’ latest comments at face value.

Consider the possibility that those statements might actually be true.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions  

and consider that they may not be

This article for the Sun Times says

Two Cubs sources told the Sun-Times this week that the Cubs still are interested in Padres right-hander Jake Peavy, including one saying he expects Hendry to acquire the former Cy Young winner.

I think there is a lot of posturing on both sides, but my gut feeling is that if Hendry wants Peavy, he’ll get him.

by ScottT on Dec 7, 2008 7:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm still waiting for the BCB Points Store

…where you can trade in your points for merchandise. Until then, I do not think + 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 is going to be very useful. Make it happen, SBN!

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 7, 2008 11:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm still waiting for the BCB Points Store

…where you can trade in your points for merchandise. Until then, I do not think + 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 is going to be very useful. Make it happen, SBN!

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 7, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

You can't inflate your + points by double posting btw!

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. - Homer J Simpson

by MikeOxbyg on Dec 8, 2008 10:04 AM CST up reply actions  

There's nothing to consider...

For it to be true would be deny some of the more basic tenants of business, economics, and human nature.

“When there’s doubt, there is not doubt.”

by Damen Jackson on Dec 7, 2008 8:00 AM CST up reply actions  

Because one of these statments makes sense

and the other one is clearly posturing.

It makes absolutely no sense for a hopeless team with serious cashflow issues to keep around a $16M / year pitcher and risk him getting hurt and stuck there for 3 years.

Now, that said, I don’t think that they’ll trade him if they don’t find a suitable offer – they’d have to answer to their fan base if they did. But eventually things will get figured out and he’ll be shipped out, either to the Cubs or to some other team who loses out big in free agency.

For what it’s worth, Buster Olney doesn’t seem to buy Towers’ posturing either:

Look, Peavy is going to be traded, and what will be left is a team looking at a long rebuilding process. It figures the Padres will look to make deals at the meetings, writes Tom Krasovic.

by Wreckard on Dec 7, 2008 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

You don't know that...

… and frankly, neither does Olney. I hate when these traditional media so-called experts make blanket pronouncements like this, because more often than not, they turn out to be wrong.

The fact is, no one outside the Padres’ front office and the Cubs’ knows for certain exactly what decisions are and aren’t being made there. We cannot know, and anyone who tells you they DO know is a liar or a fool, or both.

While the Padres’ situation is unusual, in general, rumors that take this long to fruition, with circumstances changing - exactly what Towers and Alderson said, things are different since the Greene deal - generally don’t happen at all.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Hmmm.

That text wasn’t supposed to have a strike through it. What I wrote there stands.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Of course I don't

Part of the fun of the hot stove season (the part that obviously makes you ornery) is making sense of all the spin and reading between the lines. This is my interpretation. It also makes a ton of sense.

These strike me as either attempts at leveraging, or an attempt at damage control having realized there’s less of a market for Peavy than they thought.

by Wreckard on Dec 7, 2008 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

And I disagree.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 5:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I stand corrected...

This from Heyman at SI just a bit ago:

http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/29781-peavy-to-cubs-not-so-fast?eref=fromSI

If the Padres want to deal star pitcher Jake Peavy to the Cubs, it appears they have some work to do.

“The Peavy thing isn’t dead, but it’s on life support,” one person familiar with the Cubs’ dealings said.

Looks like Alderson found a more worthy surrogate than the local media outlet.

by Damen Jackson on Dec 7, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Possible read on what's going on.

Towers is told to trade Peavy. This frustrates him because he feels like he got Peavy signed to a good deal.
Axelrod tells Towers Peavy is only going to go to two or three teams and in some of those cases only if he gets a NTC or an extension.
Towers says, “Well that stinks” and publicly admits his position is weak. Towers, not happy with his job, wants the rest of the baseball world to know his work as a GM should not be judged by this Peavy trade. Towers and Hendry work out a framework for a below market trade cost on Peavy.
Padre fans don’t like it. And after a month of poor public posturing by his GM, Alderson gets annoyed. He starts pushing back on Towers to sell this trade and make it a good one.
The Cubs push back now, too – we’re not going to be pushed into this deal when we’ve got the pitching we want.

This is a lot of speculation, and could be way off the mark, but it is possible that this recent shift in Towers’ public stance and the deterioration is coming from Alderson injecting himself.

And if that’s the case, then let me write Al’s response – “It’s just like Angelos and the Roberts trade!”

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

One person famliar

with the situation is not a damning judgement, we’ve people on both sides of this debate argue about which source actually knows the truth and which sources may or may not have validity.

I think youre scenario, dgu, could be correct. I think Towers hands are tied and he’s in a lose lose situation, which Ive maintained all along, could work to the Cubs advantage. I suspect the tune will change again once the meetings get under way tomorrow. Whether or not a move is actually made is another issue all together.

I think we do actually need Peavy, Harden’s health is always a gamble, as is Dempster follow up performance.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

This Peavy rumor is becoming more annoying than the Roberts one,

and we are really only a month into this one. The Roberts rumors actually had credible sources, I think I remember, and seemed like it could get done at any time. This is just more annoying. There is no clearcut offer from us, possibly a possible involvement with maybe a third team, and the sources are just saying “well they are interested in.” Meh, I guess this is what you get for a society that is constantly hampered with 24 hour news

"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game

by Chanman25 on Dec 7, 2008 8:32 AM CST reply actions  

completely agree

i said the exact same thing a couple days ago

at least the roberts trade seemed to make sense. this one doesn’t. of all the things to be worried about, i hope hendry isn’t getting to caught up in this peavy garbage and forgetting what our immediate priorities are

and before anyone says anything, yes i know the ’09 cubs are a better team with peavy and without marquis.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 7, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions  

The truth is....

… that Jim Hendry is operating under the priorities he has established and I can tell you that he’s probably ignoring anything and everything said about the Peavy situation in the media.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Right

We get caught up in it because we blog about it all day. Hendry (unlike Towers) is smart enough to know that deals aren’t made through the media. Towers seems to be painting himself further and further into a corner and I’ll be surprise if the Padre fans will be happy with the outcome.

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 7, 2008 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

However, this deal one has a lot

of outside influences that have nothing to do with baseball surrounding it.

I won’t repeat all of what I’ve been posting for weeks.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 7, 2008 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Like said ex-wife?

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 7, 2008 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Priorities

The window of opportunity to acquire Peavy is virtually boundless. The Cubs have other holes to fill before they get a luxury starter.

The Cubs are on a budget, it would analogous to buying yourself a christmas gift before you go shopping for other people.

If the Cubs land Peavy, it would be after we get the left handed bat, and perhaps after we sign another bullpen arm.

by scarymonsters85 on Dec 7, 2008 11:11 AM CST reply actions  

wander

if ibanez’s expected declining of arbitration has anything to do with us?? will we move in quick or is he not even on our radar? hendry has history of knowing whom he is targeting. I gotta believe he knows who he and lou want and is waiting for one piece to fall before the rest begin to fall into place.

Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!

by cubsluver22 on Dec 7, 2008 11:18 AM CST reply actions  

I Think It Does...

… I doubt Ibanez accepts. If he doesn’t, I think the Cubs will land him, because he will be the least expensive of Ibanez-Abreu-Dunn.

In Hendry We Trust

by initram on Dec 7, 2008 10:52 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know about that.

And if it’s least expensive, we’re worried about, Milton Bradley fits there. But Ibanez is getting a number of suitors. I wonder if the least expensive will end up being the guy who holds out the longest, regardless of talent level.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 8, 2008 7:25 AM CST up reply actions  

I have confirmed:

Peavy discussions have now reached 2007’s Roberts discussions. Just plain ridiculousness everywhere.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 7, 2008 11:21 AM CST reply actions  

You complain about the Peavy talks

but keep starting new posts…

SORIANO! YESSSSSSSS! JIMBO!!!

by CubFaninCA on Dec 7, 2008 11:35 AM CST reply actions  

Only when there's new information.

This was new information.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Al according to Mlb Trade Rumors

The Padres are paying all of the Greene’s salary next year so I would have to believe it is just posturing by Alderson and Towers.

by cubdreamer on Dec 7, 2008 11:39 AM CST reply actions  

No...

… you have it backwards. MLBTR said the Padres aren’t paying ANY of Greene’s salary next year. They cleared all $6.5 million of it.

Linky

Quote from above link:

Cardinals don’t get any money in the deal so they’re paying all of Greene’s $6.5 mil for 2009.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Vitters

As I’ve said before the idea of trading Vitters makes me very frustrated. Aside from the fact that the minor leagues are not in great shape and the fact that Ceda was just traded, Vitters should not be traded. We’ve talked about the two year window or whatever… well the Cubs are going to need young players to build with once that two year window is closed. Vitters has the potential to be a difference maker and he forecasts to be just the kind of hitter the Cubs need. More importantly he gives you what Lee, Ramirez and Soriano do not, several years of performance at below market salary.

If, however, Hendry is going to trade Vitters, IMO, it should not be for Peavy. A package including Vitters and Sean Marshall is a very good package. Its not nothing. I wouldn’t say that Peavy isn’t good enough for Vitters and Marshall, I’d say that he does not fit what the Cubs biggest needs are. Count me amongst those who does not believe that Piniella is off base in his repeated calls for a left handed bat. I have no idea whats available but if I were the Cubs Hendry, if I were about to trade Vitters and Marshall for Peavy, I’d first make the rounds at the GM meetings and see what other GMs are willing to give up.

by dmlichte on Dec 7, 2008 12:23 PM CST reply actions  

There are a bunch of different ways things could go, but

it definitely seems like adding Peavy limits our financial ability to add Rafael Furcal. If you had to choose one, would you rather add an Ace or a lead-off SS?

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 1:43 PM CST up reply actions  

not to mention...

… that Peavy is adding more backloaded dollars. Here’s his contract terms after this upcoming season according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts page:
2010:$15M
2011:$16M
2012:$17M
2013:$22M club option ($4M buyout)

One question that I do have is on the health of Carlos Zambrano. Is there concern on the part of the Cubs front office that the problems that plagued him last season are going to persist? if there is concern about his arm (or his head) then maybe the Cubs do need an ace.

That being said, its hard to answer your question because we need to know the dollars and length of a contract when it comes to Furcal. But its a worthy question and ya, I’d probably rather have someone who can transform the top of the line-up and upgrade SS defensively than adding Peavy.

by dmlichte on Dec 7, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Furcal turned down 4/$40M from the A's.

Supposedly, he wants 4/$52M. Given his age and injury history, I don’t think he is worth that much.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 7, 2008 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

This is pretty obvious, but...

…good pitching beats good hitting (as the Yankees’ failures have demonstrated for a while now). And beholding a rotation that included Peavy would certainly be something. (I can’t recall another rotation that was that strong [on paper], though I’m sure someone will remind me).

My inclination is that it’s always smart to pick up someone like Peavy. The problem though is that at some point, there are diminishing returns on strengthening your pitching staff. The Cubs already have what appears to be a dominant pitching staff. Does adding Peavy really make that much of a difference to the overall strength of the club? Does adding him get enough additional wins to justify the cost?

If I knew that Harden will stay healthy, I would argue that the answer is no and that we don’t need Peavy. I think Marquis does a great job in the #5 slot, and so the addition of Peavy doesn’t create enough of a gain to warrant the move. People like Al and others have made that same argument, and I think it’s basically correct.

Of course, that relies on a lot of “ifs” related to Harden’s health and Dempster’s ability to perform again. (Realistically, I think our surest bet to perform is Lilly). With that in mind, it sure seems awful tough to pass up on grabbing Peavy as a way to hedge our bets.

I think we also have the luxory of considering it because we don’t need to change a lot in our offense to remain competitive. While some guys had career years last year that almost certainly won’t repeat, we’ll still have strong hitting. I’m fine with the platoon of Pie/Johnson in center, and keeping Dome in right. (Or at most in picking up a non-name, solid lefty RF). Without the need to spend money bolstering the offense, it makes Peavy’s contract at least more manageable.

by CubsWin!Oregon on Dec 7, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm very sympathetic to the idea that it's hard to pass up on the opportunity to get a pitcher like Peavy.

At the trade deadline the best pitcher available could easily be Kevin Millwood. If we come to that point and Z is out for the season and Harden’s pitched 25 innings and Dempster’s regressed to a 4.00 ERA pitcher, I think we’re going to be kicking ourselves for needing to spend 3/4 of the proposed Peavy package on Kevin Millwood.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 7:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Im confused on your stance, DGU

On the other post you claim, or intimate, that Furcal wouldn’t be worth the cost as he’s not enough of an upgrade at leadoff over Soriano and creates more of a RH log jam in the middle of the order.

So if they can get Peavy and trade Marquis, wouldnt that leave enough to get another LH bat?

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if I have a single stance.

First, I’m assuming a LH bat is coming. After that (and depending on the final cost there), we probably have enough in the budget after moving Marquis to get Furcal or Peavy. (We could also possibly get Furcal and Peavy if we get a good trade deal for a Hermida type player).

There are a lot of different things we can do to upgrade this off-season. Of all the free agents, Furcal is probably the biggest single upgrade over our current in-house roster, especially when you count in the lack of a lost draft pick to Furcal. However, adding Furcal and subtracting DeRosa may not really be an upgrade at all. That’s why I don’t think I have a single stance.

For me, the biggest reason Furcal is an upgrade is that Theriot’s defense at SS is so bad.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 7:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Why would DeRosa be subtracted?

I think I missed that part of your argument

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Where does DeRo play if Furcal plays SS and Riot moves to 2B?

And, can the Cubs afford both Furcal and DeRo?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 7, 2008 7:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Exactly

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 8:01 PM CST up reply actions  

so what would you get in exchange for DeRosa

Assuming youd move him b/c the return would be bigger than Theriot, but DeRosa at second and Furcal at SS would surely be the better alternative

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 8:38 PM CST up reply actions  

DeRosa could have a good return

but there’s always the possibility with a player like Theriot that you could hit the jackpot in someone overpaying, something like the old Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik trade. Ryan Theriot is Scott Podsednik (minus the power and speed).

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 9:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Can they afford to lose DeRo's bat?

Look, I know Lou has it bad for Riot, but if Hendry can convince him that Furcal is a better solution at SS (not to mention leadoff), then Riot is heading towards being Mr. Utility. I can’t recall too many instances last year where Riot started over DeRosa. Only way Riot sees 2b as a starter is if DeRo sees RF as a starter.

Bottom line: If we sign Furcal, that means no big name RF thumper, so we’re going to need all the offense we can get. Our RF solution either becomes a Scott/Hermida/Huff type or Dome stays there. Either way, DeRosa has 2b and Riot (if he’s not traded) becomes Lou’s BFF on the bench.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 7, 2008 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

It's tough to bench a guy who has started for a year and a half,

no matter how bad his defense if. It’s even harder when the guy hit .300. The same would be true with DeRo and his .857 OPS. Clubhouse chemistry takes a beating as guys take sides and tend to be cold toward the new guy. Whichever is the odd man out (Riot or DeRo) will be traded — unless DeRo becomes the everyday RF.

Bigger question, Ballhawk…

What kind of range do you have? If we sign Dunn, Ibañez, or Abreu, we are going to be in serious need of a defensive replacement.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 7, 2008 8:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Whoever isnt playing CF that day

Is amply able to cover for them, whether its Kosuke/RJ or Pie

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 8:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Well if we sign Dunn, I'm going to have to develop some serious range (not to mention drop about 20 lbs)

‘cause I’ll be running back-n-forth between Waveland and Sheffield, assuming lineup is something like Lee-Dunn-Ramirez…

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 7, 2008 8:49 PM CST up reply actions  

It depends on what you believe about the Cajun bats.

If you believe the Cajuns in an unorthodox platoon can give you a .380 OBP and a .420 SLG, then, yes, they can afford to lose DeRosa’s bat. They may even want to, because they could play Fontenot, Furcal, and LH RF to add a lot of LHers.

On the other hand, if you believe the Cajuns played way over their head and could flop and give you a .340 OBP and a .375 SLG, or worse, well, then you better get something nice back for DeRosa.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 9:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Right field

I think in this scenario you’ve spent all you can and can’t bring in a new RF. Derosa moves out there.

by Wreckard on Dec 7, 2008 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see it.

The Cubs want a place for LH bats. RF is one of the places they’re targeting.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 9:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm assuming that...

…in this scenario you’ve gotten your lefthanded bat in Furcal. Then you platoon Theriot / Fontenot and start Derosa in RF.

by Wreckard on Dec 8, 2008 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

No, my point is that

I don’t see the Cubs playing DeRosa in RF when they want a LH thumper so bad. If they get Furcal, and they can’t afford Abreu/Bradley, etc., they’ll still get a cheap RF, Teahen or Hermida, etc.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 8, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

End of my posts on this subject.

I can’t argue my stance further — and, others are doing an even better job. So, I’m done on this topic.

We’ll wait for the outcome.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Dec 8, 2008 12:28 PM CST reply actions  

Yes, we will.

I further predict that you’ll have something else to say before this has a final resolution.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 8, 2008 2:46 PM CST up reply actions  

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