Furcal turns down A's offer

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 7, 2008 1:32 PM CST

Now the fact that Furcal turned down the A's offer of 4 years for somewhere between $35M-$40M isn't exactly 'news' but I haven't seen any FanPosts about the market for Furcal being up in the air now.

I know Lou seems obbessed with getting a left-handed power hitter for the OF, but I think the team solves just as many problems by signing Furcal. You get a left-handed bat while allowing the team to use Theriot as a backup SS and 2B. Trade Cedeno for anything and that solves the extra roster spot.

Now with Furcal, you have a TRUE lead-off hitter, a left handed bat, and an upgrade defensivley at SS. I have argued before that Furcal wasn't worth the $$$ upgrade and ironically I've changed my mind as the economy has worsened. That may seem foolish, but the Cubs seem determined on signing a left-handed OF. Doesn't it make more sense to sign a switch hitting defensive upgrade WHILE also keeping open the option to have the left-handed OF you are paying $11M in '09, $13M, in '10, and $13M in '11, improve his play and prove his worth?!

I mean if we get to next year and we have signed Adam Dunn to a big contract and Felix Pie and Fukudome come out and have great spring trainings, you don't even have room to play everybody. Now it's very unlikely both Fukudome and Pie would come out and have great springs given their track record, but signing Furcal at least keeps the team more flexible.

Lineups galore:

SS Furcal

1B Lee

C Soto

3B Ramirez

LF Soriano

RF Fukudome

2B DeRosa

CF Johnson/Pie

Or put DeRosa in the 2nd spot and move everyone down

SS Furcal

2B Theriot

1B Lee

3B Ramirez

LF Soriano

C Soto

RF DeRosa

CF Johnson/Pie

Anyway, those are my two cents. To Furcal supporters I argued with earlier, I eat my hat but only if the Cubs are 100% going to sign a big free agent who can hit left-handed.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Comments

I agree Furcal

would solve the most of our problems which include Speed, Athleticism, Range at SS, Arm at SS, a lefty in our lineup (well switch hitter), and a bona fide leadoff hitter.

by dlee25 on Dec 7, 2008 1:56 PM CST reply actions

for four years at 13M

no thanks

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 2:33 PM CST up reply actions

That is too much... but it appears

the market for him isnt as large as he thought. Maybe the Cubs can offer him 3-4 yrs at 10-12 mil a year.

by dlee25 on Dec 7, 2008 2:42 PM CST up reply actions

If he gets realistic, sure

but he already turned down 35-40 from the A’s, perhaps he realized theyre not that good, but it seems like he’s overestimating the market.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 3:04 PM CST up reply actions

I think he's definitely overestimating the market.

However, keep in mind that offer is less per year than he got from the Dodgers the last three years. Yes, he was injured last year, but I can see why he doesn’t want a pay cut.

Not wanting one and maybe having to take one are two different things.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions

Furcal as lead-off hitter

Furcal’s probably going to give you a .350-.355 OBP. Soriano will probably give us .340-345. Furcal will give us a SLG between .400-.450. Soriano .500-.550. Both are as streaky as it gets.

If adding Furcal means Soriano will be moved down in the order, this actually deepens the problem of having too many RH sluggers in a row if we don’t also add a LH thumper.

Adding Furcal probably also means that DeRosa will be traded to trim payroll and so Theriot can start at 2B. (I’d like to see a poll, btw, on who people would prefer if the choice was Furcal or DeRosa.)

That said, the fact Furcal rejected the A’s after the Giants signed Renteria tells me someone is still talking to him. It could be a surprise team like the Reds or Twins, but I think it’s the Cubs.

The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.

by DGU on Dec 7, 2008 2:35 PM CST reply actions

Sorianos career OBP is 329

So I dont know where you get the .340-.345 from, he’s only been over .340 twice.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on Dec 7, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions

Picking a relevant sample...

Looking at a player’s career can be misleading. For example, do you think Randy Johnson should be expected to post 275 K next year (that’s his season average)? I’d hope your answer to that is “no,” because the reality is that Johnson should be expected to perform closer to what he’s done the last three years, not what he’s done over the course of his long career.

In his last three seasons, Soriano has posted OBP of .351, .337, and .344. That’s a .344 average OBP in that time span. These OBP have been consistently higher than his career OBP, which probably corresponds with (a) his development as a player as he’s aged and (b) his move to the NL. Do you really think Soriano’s OBP of .304 from his rookie year in the AL seven years ago is relevant? I’d say it’s pretty fair to expect a .340-.345 OBP for Soriano. He may do better than that and he may do worse, but that’s a pretty reasonable mean, in my opinion.

The point is that Furcal is a feast or famine hitter. He’s basically Soriano but with less power and fewer K. When he’s hot, he’s really hot. When he’s not, he’s really not. He’s not really any more a “true” leadoff hitter than Soriano, expect that his OBP is probably going to be 5 to 10 points higher on average at this point in their careers.

by SouthernCub on Dec 7, 2008 3:50 PM CST up reply actions

Great points.

by kanderber on Dec 7, 2008 8:29 PM CST up reply actions

Actually Soriano's game changed last year and he hit well with Men on Base

Actually I think Furcal fulfills one piece in the puzzle. It moves Soriano to a possible 5th or 6th spot in the order. Against RH starters which is what the weakness of the club is in playoff games. Moving Soriano to a power spot (5th or 6th) actually help the team’s offense.

I can see that Lou would like to put 4 LH bats in the lineup against RH starters, (SS, 2B, CF & RF). Thus you could see the lineup Furcal, DLee, Ichiro, Ramirez, Soriano, Fukudome, Soto and Fontenot. A RH pitcher would not have a let up and when they face Z it would be three lefties in a row.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Dec 7, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions

I really don't see how we could get Furcal, Ichiro, AND Fukudome...

as that’d require taking on an additional $25 million in salary.

by SouthernCub on Dec 7, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

I agree with Illinois Cubs

This is exactly what I’ve been saying about Roberts.

My point isn’t only that I want Roberts, BUT more importantly improving on the ‘08 Cubs. SOMETHING needs to change. The options for a LHB don’t seem to fit the Cubs, thus it’s time to go to plan B.

Adding Furcal or Roberts does a lot of things. Gives the Cubs a spark plug (see the ‘03 version of Kenny Lofton). It lets Lou save face with Sori so he can move him down the lineup. It’s another LHB. I know it doesn’t break up the righties, but hey at least it’s another lefty. You can upgrade the defense at SS, move Riot over and DeRosa to right.

Let’s do it!

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 7, 2008 3:06 PM CST reply actions

Just like I don't really prefer our monies be spent on Peavy...

…nor do I prefer our monies be spent on Furcal. I think we can more than make do with some sort of LBR/DeRo/Riot/Cedeno combination (whatever that may be), and make our priority a LH OF. Roberts has always been a pipe-dream, Furcal is more like a water drainage dream, and I think we could be more effective with a speedy or power LH OF than with Furcal. LBR and DeRo are more than sufficient in the middle positions, and Riot (or at worst, Cedeno) could suffice at short. My $0.02.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 7, 2008 3:38 PM CST reply actions

If such a power LH OF was out there

I’m all for it! However, no player on the market matches what the Cubs need. In addition, any LH OF like Dunn, Ibanez, etc. would hurt defense AND limit the ability to resurrect Fukudome’s career. No one seems to be talking about the fact that Fukudome is owed $24M over the next two seasons. I don’t see how officially regulating Fukudome to a bench spot is MORE effective than almost any scenario on the table.

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 7, 2008 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

exactly

unless there is someone out there to be traded for, i think it’s time for plan b

"Pounding sand since 1982...."

by cubswynn on Dec 7, 2008 6:32 PM CST up reply actions

Jeremy Hermida.

Go get him.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 7, 2008 10:33 PM CST up reply actions

He's my pipe-dream this off season.

I don’t think it will happen, but I’d love for him to be in our club house next year.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 7, 2008 11:21 PM CST up reply actions

This would be a nice lineup:

Furcal
Fukudome
Lee
Ramirez
Hermida
Soriano
Soto
DeRosa

by DGU on Dec 8, 2008 6:06 AM CST up reply actions

Ehhh.

I think:

Furcal
Dome
A-Ram
Soriano
Hermida
Lee
Soto
DeRo

I like Rammy in the 3-hole, Soriano living-n-dying in 4-banger, and our 6-7-8 being better than most teams’ 2-3-4.

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 8, 2008 6:21 AM CST up reply actions

Since the #4 hitter leads off so often

I don’t think it’s the best spot for Soriano, but the one nice thing about the Cubs lineup is that it is so deep it’s hard to mis-set it.

by DGU on Dec 8, 2008 7:12 AM CST up reply actions

are you kidding? That's how Lou is going to sell Soriano on moving to cleanup!

“Fonzie, the way our guys have been swinging the bats, you’ll still be leading off – it’ll just be the second inning instead of the first that’s all. Listen, I’ll talk to Bud and make sure that any second inning leadoff homers count towards that record. Do me this solid and it’ll get all those crazy SOB BCBers off both our backs.”

[leans forwards and kisses Sori on top of head, a la ARod many years ago. Sori sniffs a little and then smiles through teary eyes…]

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 8, 2008 7:25 AM CST up reply actions

Oooh, I'm intrigued.

What happens in Chapter 2?

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 8, 2008 7:39 AM CST up reply actions

Aaagh!

BCB fan fiction!

Must… sterilize… self…

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 8, 2008 9:46 AM CST up reply actions

can't be real fan fic

there’s no “Mary Jane” character — the fan who is brought in to play for the team because… because… um… well. For whatever reason. And then hits the game winning HR. And Ron Santo catches it. Cause he’s broadcasting from the bleachers. Next to Kerry Wood. And then Ernie Banks parachutes in.

"That’s the great thing about baseball, you never know what’s going to happen till you get the final out." — Lou Piniella

by drewishdrewid on Dec 8, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions

I see you took the advanced course!

But you forgot how the ghosts of Harry and Jack cause the transmission to go out on the Steinbrenner limo as they try to flee Wrigleyville following the game seven, come-from-behind victory over the Yankees.

Okay, I seriously need to go scrub my eyeballs now.

"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard

by znohitter on Dec 8, 2008 11:57 AM CST up reply actions

Furcal to the Cubs?

Not what we need. I’d rather keep Ryan at short and just have Font play 2B

Sign a real LH power stick

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy."
- Dodgers, Astros, Brewers, A's & Angels pitcher Don Sutton

by CubFreak on Dec 8, 2008 1:02 AM CST reply actions

Who and play him where?

No one seems to be addressing this point

by IllinoisCubs on Dec 8, 2008 1:06 AM CST up reply actions

We only have one OF position solidified at this point.

And that’s Soriano in LF. We have no one really in CF, and Dome is quite up in the air – both when and where he is going to play. I’m sure if we got someone like Hermida, we could figure out how to fit him in the OF (like Dome in CF).

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 8, 2008 1:14 AM CST up reply actions