Reluctantly Posting Another Peavy Article
by Chanman25 on Dec 8, 2008 9:07 PM CST
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PrintThis is from CBS Sports.com. I figured, well hell someone else was probably going to post this so just put it out there now. Apparently a third team involved could POSSIBLY be the Phillies.
http://scott-miller.blogs.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270335/12173484
Its a whole bunch of possibiliy and what if scenarios, but take it for what it is worth. I dunno, if its Peavy for Vitters pretty much straight up, I guess I would reluctantly do it...
However if we have to give up Vitters, Pie, Hart, DeRosa, and Marquis then why the Hell would you do that deal? Not only do you clear out your farm system, who would fill the shoes for an injured MLB player...Jason Dubois?!?!?!
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the deal may be close
link oh please hendry pull the trigger!!!
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
that posting suggests that a possible 4 team framework is out there
which has me mildly intrigued. essentially, netting pitching from the orioles and phillies to swap in a package for peavy? If the rumors from Scott Miller are correct, and the baltimore is correct, we are looking at something like
Trade 1
Mark DeRosa for JA Happ (and hopefully more, as that’s bad value, imo)
Trade 2
Felix Pie (and perhaps another piece) for Garrett Olson
leading to
Trade 3
Garrett Olson, JA Happ, Josh Vitters, Kevin Hart, and Ronny Cedeno for Jake Peavy?
Ouch … but I could probably live with it if we get a little something extra.
Let's see...
If you are correct about the package — and that Marshall is not included — we are giving up:
1. Pie: might as well get something for him since Lou won’t play him.
2. Cedeño: fine, otherwise the Cubs might non-tender him.
3. Hart: good for bullpen depth, but Lou lost confidence in him last year.
4. Vitters: this one hurts, but he’s only a prospect.
5. DeRosa: this one really hurts, but the Cubs can’t afford him, Peavy, and a FA RF.
So, it might not be as bad as it seemed at first. I don’t think we can afford to trade Marshall since he would be the only legitimate #5 SP candidate if Marquis is dumped.
Seeing the way this cleans out our 40 man roster, I wish we would have protected Veal.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
i'm just guessing
based upon those rumors, although i don’t think i’m suggesting anything too crazy.
That said, if we net Happ, and they want Marshall, I’m fine with it. Happ’s got a bit more value, imo, which is why I think they’d lean that way.
this would clear out 4 more spots on the 40 man if it went through, and assuming Marquis is dumped, that makes 9 spots unless my math is wrong (we are currently at 36). It’s hard to imagine us taking a guy in the Rule 5 this year – we don’t have the roster space to assume someone can stick on the 25 man. That means, we’d probably add some guys from the system, sign a couple minor league FA’s that could help (Josh Kroeger comes to mind) and leave a couple spots open perhaps.
I could see the Cubs trying Lofgren
if he’s still there when they pick.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
i've got a hard time
seeing where Lofgren fits in the mix if we can hang onto Marshall (or have Happ/Olson).
If we don't have Marshall (or Happ/Olson)
and we don’t buy a lefty for the ’pen…
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
oops, of course
meant to say that, in addition to the big league roster additions, we’d likely fill out the 40 with guys like Spears (I don’t think he’ll get drafted – I think Veal gets picked), perhaps Campusano?, maybe Muyco or Reinhard?, or some other guys, like Papelbon/Lambert could force the Cubs hand, and maybe some minor league FA’s.
tcr says levin says marlins
which makes me wonder if ryan tucker or sean west are in the mix, but not sure how we match up and give them what they want without overloading it.
I just saw the Stark 10 player note – let’s see, in the above, i have potentially involved 10 (if we add a piece to send to the Orioles, and if the Phillies hand us a piece).
Should I add a Peavy Cubs Jersey to my xmas list?
Im gonna be really intrigued to see who is involved in this deal, it could effect everyone from DeRosa all the way down to Cashner.
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
man
i’m getting excited. I think this may be true or at least I hope.
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
at least if it doesnt happen this week we wont be waiting around like last year with the Roberts situation.. that is if they were serious about “this week or never”
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
But... what fun would BCB be without endless trade rumors???????
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I bet they're as serious as when
the Yankees said in the ‘04 off season that they weren’t pursuing Randy Johnson anymore.
I've been hearing a wide range of players involved.
Not only will it cause the Cubs top prospect, but it might (or might not) cause a dangerous concoction of DeRosa, Marshall, Guzman, Cedeno, Pie, and/or Hart. Unbelievable.
It might be because I really, really, like Guzman being in the Cubs’ bullpen, but this is way too much for just one pitcher; especially in a department where the Cubs excelled at last year. And, if I think about it some more, who is going to start for Harden when he starts to feel “stiffness” in his arm? Can’t be Marshall anymore, because he’s a Padre.
I love Peavy, but the shit his dumbass GM is trying to package for him is insane. He’s a pitcher, not the second coming of Christ.
hey hey, Bob Brenly once did refer to him as
“A Greg Maddux type pitcher on steroids.”
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
Marquis?
You have a rotation of Peavy, Zambrano, Dempster, Lilly, Harden. Assuming Marquis isn’t traded, he’s a relief guy/spot starter. Hell, even Samardzija could start if he REALLY had to.
CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!
Well if the trade Vitters, Hart, Cedeno, and Marquis, which this article suggests
then hell I’d do it. But why in the hell would Towers pull this off?? And trading Mark DeRosa doesn’t make that much sense either
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
Trading DeRosa only makes sense dollars-wise...
Getting Peavy is still somewhat expensive. Trading Marquis only addresses part of the money issue, especially considering that it’d require assuming some of his salary. Trading DeRosa gets the team’s payroll further down.
I, too, am worried about not having Marshall or anyone else
to back up Harden or to serve as a quality swing guy. Sure, with Peavy our five-man rotation would be stellar, but what about the pen or other potential starters? This Peavy deal could leave the Cubs fairly thin in a few areas.
The unexamined blog is not worth reading.
kinda don't want to get rid of Guzman
if the cubs are really dealing all of those guys, I am hoping that the Cubs get someone in addition to Peavy in return.
Can you really rely on Guzman though?
no big loss as far as Im concerned
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
FWIW... This has been brought up in both...
“Rockies interested in Marquis? Marquis for Taveras? Baker?”
and…
“2008 Winter Meetings Thread!!”
well I started it in the Rockies thread and figured, "what the hell, it will be posted in a diary anyway.."
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
He's a Cy Young Pitcher
Why on earth would you not give up Vitters? Cedeno? Marshall? He is the top of his profession — 27 — wants to play for the Cubs — a fierce competitor. Look, if he is awful, you can always get excited about the Cubs first round pick the next year.
Take him. Grab a LH bat. Win the pennant.
by SETX Cub on Dec 8, 2008 9:30 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
+1
rec’d
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
huh, first round pick?
If he’s traded here and sucks, well we have him for four more years after that! He’s not here for only one year
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
which is all the more reason
to give up vitters in a deal. i cant argue with 4 years of an ace/cy young winner. that gives our rotation 3 solid aces. that just sounds too sweet ot pass up
"The more i practice, the luckier i seem to get" -Yogi Berra
But the author of the post I responded to said
So what if peavy sucks when he gets here
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
As I recall that is what a lot folks said about Harden
Just grab him and we could wrap up that World Series trophy. I like Peavy a lot but giving up pretty much every decent young player
we have is scary. Let’s just say I have mixed feelings which would become far more mixed if DeRosa is involved,
"I am not ashamed to say I love Greg Maddux" - Jim Hendry
by Doggie Stalker on Dec 9, 2008 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed.
Peavy does NOT guarantee you a single postseason win.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
As I recall, pitching wasn't too much of a concern in the playoffs
It was a lack of offense and crappy defense. If we are trading prospects, I think we should after a clutch RFer.
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
Pitching wasn't a concern...
… except, I guess, for the seven walks and the grand slam in game 1.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
anyone
have that 14.95 deal at mlb.com?? if so are they updating things live??
Dear Santa:: All I want for X-mas this year is an official 2009 Jake Peavy Cubs Jersey. Oh and a Beimel one too. I've been a real good guy for the most part!!!
Wow, for the first time this actually looks close!
Awesome to see!
And people need to get off the “we can’t trade Vitters” thing. You don’t not trade a PROSPECT for an ACE pitcher if that’s what it comes down to. We’re not talking about a marginal upgrade. We’re talking about one of the top 5 starters in all of baseball.
Whoa whoa whoa...
…Peavy isnt a top 5 starter in baseball (as personally I’d prefer Sabathia, Webb, Lincecum, Johan Santana, and Josh Beckett as my top 5). He’s a top 10 starter in the NL, thats for sure, and maybe even top 5 in the NL (Webb, Lincecum, Santana are the obvious guys ahead of Peavy)…
All of that being said, I think adding Peavy to the Cubs gives them the best rotation in all of baseball. Z, Harden, Lilly, Dempster, and Peavy (in no order) would be the most dominant rotation (on paper) that I’ve seen in years.
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola
by Ryan at Cubshub on Dec 8, 2008 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
Peavy News Flash
My sources are reporting that the Cubs are minutes from closing a deal with the Padres, Phillies, Orioles, Rays, Rockies, and the entire AL West.
The Cubs get Peavy, Padres get Marquis, Coste and Vitters, Hart goes to Philly, Happ goes to Baltimore, Cedeno to Tampa, Wellington encamps outside Waterloo, Napoleon’s forces are flanked on the right by the Prussians until Bradley breaks through the Panzers near Falaise, resulting in a technical balk and Minnie Minoso taking third base with him to the Angels in exchange for this guy Cash everyone keeps talking about.
(BTW, can Cash hit?)
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
If there's anything more I hate about people, other
than not picking their feet up all the way when they walk, is anonymous people citing “sources” and giving detailed breakdowns of the whole transaction in their fantasy world where they can strap on their job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into Jobland where jobs grow on little jobbies
Please, link to an article that can back up your information, or don’t post things like that.
ROFL
"Well, we're out of cake! We only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush! So what do you want?"
"What, so my choice is 'or death?' Well, then I'll have the chicken, please."
--Eddie Izzard
Hahahahaa
If you hadn’t posted this I would have thought you were making a joke about that post. It’s even more hilarious cause you thought It was legit haha
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
i was thinking
the same exact thing i thought your original reply was sarcasm
"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace."
Haha different office
Bob: What would you say ya do here?
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
LOOK, I ALREADY TOLD YOU WHAT I DO.
I DEAL WITH THE GOD DAMN CUSTOMERS SO THE ENGINEERS DON’T HAVE TO! I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS! I AM GOOD AT DEALING WITH PEOPLE!
Can’t you understand that? WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!
Hahaha one of the best lines!
You know I had an Idea like that once. It was called a jump to conclusions mat. It had a bunch of conclusions on it that you could jump to!
Michael: that’s gotta be the worst idea ever
Samir: yes this I’d a horrible ideA
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
I agree with several above...
But not this:
"if its Peavy for Vitters pretty much straight up, I guess I would reluctantly do it…
Again – why “reluctantly”? Has Josh Vitters even made it to AAA? For a chance at a Cy Young winner at 27? Hmmm…let me think…
Sure I'd do it
It would just leave me with a bad taste in my mouth
"Charles Tillman is one of the best strippers in the NFL" - John Madden 11/30/08 Chicago Bears vs. Minnesota Vikings game
bad taste?
vitters is just a prospect…we don’t know how he will turn out. and given the past history of the cubs home breed position players, there is a good chance he won’t turn out to be as great as he’s hyped up to be.
Yo Gentlemen, am I reading this right.....Did TOON write
We would basically giving up Felix Pie, Mark DeRosa, Josh Vitters, Kevin Hart, and Ronny Cedeno for Jake Peavy and his big contract with no trade protection?
That is just way too much. If the Padre’s want that much, they better throw something else in like Adrian Gonzalez or Brian Giles. Something has to give…..
Thats a lot, but DeRosa is the only proven big leaguer there
try and keep that in perspective, Hart looks like a AAAA pitcher so far, we have no use for Cedeno/Pie and no one knows what Vitters will become
Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.
DeRosa
I’m not convinced DeRosa is part of any deal. Nothing that has been written indicates he’s part of the deal, other than some scribe claiming that one team or another “likes” DeRosa. Who wouldn’t? He plays all over the field and is competent at each position.
Hendry has shown an ability to acquire talent for less than the populess believes he’ll give up and in this instance, with the Padres’ backs against the wall, I would expect it again. Give up Pie, Vitters, Marquis, Hart, and any other spare part…done. Where do I sign?
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
by krummy12 on Dec 8, 2008 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, before we all conclude DeRosa's gone
let’s remember he has been in ZERO trade rumors to this point and the basis for this is “Who else would the Phillies want?” Who knows what they want? DeRosa is a guess, but it could be anyone.
The author of this post is not a certified scout, doctor, agent, statistician, manager, or journalist, nor was he ever a very good player, though he tried very hard to be like Ryne Sandberg and was about as scrappy as it gets (in T-ball). Any opinion expressed above should in no way be confused with fact, truth, or reality and is hereby qualified in the following ways: 1) The author does not know as much about baseball as Lou Piniella. 2) The author does not know as much about baseball as Jim Hendry. 3) The author does not know as much about baseball as either Dusty or Darren Baker.
Well...we have
no freakin’ idea what is asked for compared to what is agreed upon – BUT – while DeRo is a fantastic Super-Sub player on a top-echelon team, he is in the last year of a deal.
As a RF – meh. 2nd base – average. Seems to make errors at the wrong time, though.
Very good as a sub for A-Ram, however. And a nice bat.
But, as is said – you’d have to get something to replace him in addition to Peavy, I’d think.
Understood
But by dealing DeRosa you’d lose a backup OF, a starting/platooning 2B, a backup 3B and an emergency SS and possibly 1B. Guys like that that also can be considered legitimate offensive threats are pretty hard to find which is why nearly every contender would want him and some scribe would want him included in the deal. Just doesn’t sound like something Hendry would do.
Who needs a stinkin' tag line? What are they for anyway?
Which could be why
rumors out there about our interest in Aurilla. A poor man’s DeRosa now…
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
That would make some sense...
get a poor man’s DeRosa to platoon at 2B and back up Lee and Ramirez at the corners but at a reduced price. That’s certainly a big step down from DeRosa, but you gotta make ends meet if that Peavy deal were to occur.
And he is 33...
2008 may never be duplicated again by DeRo….although I think we would miss the clubhouse persona that he seems to be…
100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.
I am 51 now...
If the team was in a small market, and had a “youth movement” that had a tradition of playing kids earlier in their careers (as opposed to our 27 and 28 y.o. rookies – save Soto), then – yeah – you hand on to a #1 prospect if he shows promise.
But please excuse me for wanting to increase my team’s odds of winning some playoff games.
Err...that's
“you hand on”
HANG on
Type much?
Congrats on being 51.
In other news… you cant balk at the chance to have Peavy, Zambrano, Lilly, Dempster and Harden in a rotation.
One thing you learned as a Cubs fan: when you bought you ticket, you could bank on seeing the bottom of the ninth.
Joe Garagiola
by Ryan at Cubshub on Dec 8, 2008 10:46 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks - just pointing out
as a Cub fan since 1968, I want to “win now” rather than keeping this idea of, “develop” or not, our “talent”.
I'm older than you.
I want to “win now”, too.
I’m just not convinced that all this dealing is something that will guarantee winning in the postseason. We thought we had such a team last year too, right?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I think a Peavy deal would help us GET to the postseason...
Winning in the postseason is a crapshoot.
Obviously nothing will guarantee winning in the postseason. But something that makes you more likely to get to the postseason also makes you more likely to win in the postseason (you can’t win if you don’t get there).
Michael Wuertz
Could be a part of the deal, and I’d be pleased because of the potential savings in such a deal (he could be near 1.5, if not 2, next year, and that money could be better used elsewhere). I think this is the first time I’ve seen Angel Guzman’s name mentioned.
That article mentions
Hart, Wuertz, and Guzman I keep thinking more and more that Hendry is again going to commit a felony only this time in San Diego. I realize those three won’t be the only three but essentially we are throwing out spare parts that will more than likely not impact our Major League roster and getting a guy who won a Cy Young trophy.
Derrick Rose-2009 ROTY Tyrus Thomas-2009 MIP...hope I'm at least half right
by CHCOWNTHECENTRAL on Dec 9, 2008 3:22 AM CST up reply actions
It's funny how many people here are devaluing Guzman so much.
2-3 years ago, this guy was the prize of the farm system. Now he’s a “spare part.”
Actually, it was 4-5 years (and 2-3 major arm injuries) ago...
Yes, he was at one point the jewel of the system. Then he missed two full years with arm injuries, came back and struggled, and then missed almost another full year with an arm injury. I think it’s realistic to call him a spare part right now. He may still have amazing potential, but that’s a LOT of baggage he’s carrying.
Anyone else hope that if DeRo is being shopped to Philly, they are talking
Jimmy Rollins?
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
Jason Donald is whom I hope is involved
Hendry can just ‘hang on’ to him in a multi-team trade, just like he did with Murton.
I love to play baseball. I'm a baseball player. I've always been a baseball player. I'm still a baseball player. That's who I am. - Ryne Sandberg
They aren't...
DeRosa would be going to Philly to dump salary. Rollins costs more than DeRosa, and DeRosa isn’t a replacement at SS for them. Also, the Phillies would be looking to augment their championship team, not get rid of one of their most important players.
I understand.
However, I believe the Cubs need a player like Rollins, SS/Leadoff, more than another elite pitcher.
But the wind blew me back via Chicago, In the middle of the night
Maybe, maybe not...
but even if they do, it won’t be Rollins. In fact, I’ll be surprised if we address that issue at all. Players like Rollins are hard to come by.
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