If No Lefty Bat Falls To Us,

by dakoose on Dec 8, 2008 9:44 PM CST

here is a name that has not been brought up on BCB yet, and he probably won't cost too much: Edwin Encarnaion.

Let me preface this by saying that if the Cubs do indeed acquire Jake Peavy, and it appears that it is becoming more and more likely that the deal goes down, Jim Hendry will not have enough payroll flexibility to acquire a premier lefty. Jim could go out and acquire an OK lefty, maybe someone like Mark Teahen, but wouldn't you rather have a very good right handed hitter as opposed to a so-so lefty?

I know what you all are thinking:"Doesn't Encarnacion play third base? Yes, but Cincinnati, if they do keep him, is looking for him to move into the outfield. And according to the Bill James Defensive Spectrum, and not to mention common sense, right field is easier to play than third base. I'm not sure what it would take to acquire Encarnacion, but from what I have heard Dusty doesn't like him and he is now the most likely Red to be traded. I have heard that San Fransisco could be able to get him for Noah Lowry, who is no big deal.

Here are Encarnaion's career averages: .266/.340/.466. He is only tenty five and although his average dipped last year, his power numbers improved drasticaly, with his ISO going from .149 to .215, and his BB% jumping from 7.2 to 10.8. All signs point to a breakout year for EE in the very near future. I know we are in the same division and that complicates things a bit, but if he could be had for a not-too-steep price, and it appears that he can, I would jump all over that. I'm a big Pie fan, but I would swap him for EE in a heartbeat. Anyone else feel this way, and if not, any other ideas for what Hendry could do if he can't bring in a big lefty stick?

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They ain't

trading him within the division.

Its funny, you spend most of your life gripping a baseball. And in the end, its almost always the other way around.

by TCobb1911 on Dec 8, 2008 9:46 PM CST reply actions

Ummm....

Why would you count on a guy who already has an attitude problem being willing to move to the OF? And why would you put him in RF when his bat is worse than LBR’s?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Dec 8, 2008 10:48 PM CST reply actions

LBR is Fontenot, correct?

Well, I look at Fontenot’s line last year and see an aberration. A bit of luck and some good usage by Lou contributed to his outstanding line. Encarnacion on the other hand made a huge leap last year, is younger and also has more upside. I think his attitude problem stemmed from Dusty’s pressure to tale more walks. I didn’t really hear all the much about his ‘tude last year and as long as he is left to be he should be fine and turn into a very good hitter.
This isn’t so much about saying that he would be a great right fielder(yet) but like I said in my title, if we don’t get that big lefty bat I would have no problem going into next year with Encarnacion playing right field.

by dakoose on Dec 8, 2008 11:01 PM CST up reply actions

I'm not buying the 3B to RF argument.

Interesting idea, but one that is very, very, VERY unlikely to happen IMO.

CUBS WIN! CUE THE ORCHESTRA!

by Keith on Dec 8, 2008 11:11 PM CST reply actions

Not happening.

Nor would we want it.

If we are going to “settle” on a RH RF then we should be after Dye….

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 8, 2008 11:23 PM CST reply actions

you took the words right out of my keyboard...

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 9, 2008 12:06 AM CST up reply actions

You would rather trade a

couple of higher level prospects for one year of Dye than trade one or two decent prospects or a player like Fontenot for a young slugger entering his prime who we would have for three cost controlled years? The difference between Dye and Encarnacion next year would ot nearly be enough to make it a slam dunk to get Dye. And if you didn’t read my post, acquiring Encarnacion is a move made because Hendry doesn’t have the money to go and get a big time bet, and that same lack of money would apply to getting Dye.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 12:17 AM CST up reply actions

well so far the only name i've heard connected with Dye is Homer Bailey.

And Mr. Bailey appears to have lost a bit of his luster. So it’s not out of the ream that there’s someone in our system that once had potential but has struggled at the major league level, is it?

Now if you’re saying KW wants Castillo and Guzman or something like that… then yes, that would give me pause.

Regardless, I think your expectations might be a bit high on Encarnacion, especially considering the position change. Yes, right field is probably easier than third base, but learning to play right field in Wrigley Field for the Cubs is a lot different than learning to play right field in GABP for the Reds.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Dec 9, 2008 12:51 AM CST up reply actions

No

I would rather have a real RF and not a converted 3B who has not played RF nor has proven anything.

We already have Pie. Leave him there then and stop the Peavy nonsense in that case…

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 9, 2008 10:28 AM CST up reply actions

You are ignoring the entire point of this post.

If we are forgetting about Peavy as you advocate in your comment, then Hendry has enough money to go out and get a big time left handed hitter, making Dye not a consideration. My point is that Dye doesn’t come into consideration because Jim has enough money to trade for him then he should get a lefty like Dunn or Abreu, and if he doesn’t have the money for those guys then he has to go bargain hunting for someone like Encarnacion. Also, EE would be a Cub for three more cost-controlled years, making him a nice bargain.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

I am not ignoring the point of the post...

sure Hendry may need to bargain shop, but EE is not even an OF! That is the part of the post that is most absurd. All I am saying is why even bother with someone who has never played the OF and concentrate on someone who has.

Besides, we also already have DeRose who could play RF if nothing else works out.

100 years would have been nice, but 101 years still has a nice ring to it.

by airweino on Dec 9, 2008 2:58 PM CST up reply actions

You make it seem

as if every move a GM makes has to be an absolute sure thing. I realize that playing Encarnacion in right field is a risk, but moving from third to right is not that big of a deal. Ryan Braun caught a lot of criticism for his supposedly bad glovework in left but in fact he ended up with a very solid defensive season. Encarnacion is a decent outfielder and I don’t see why he can’t make the transition to right field with some extra offseason work. Regarding DeRosa, the team is better off leaving him at second base. It’s his best defensive position and having that type of bat at the keystone is a big advantage for the Cubs.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

Playing LF in Miller Park is a

bit different than playing RF in Wrigley Field.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on Dec 9, 2008 4:02 PM CST up reply actions

I've heard(and written) that Wrigley's right field

is tougher than most other right fields, but I’m not sure why. Is it the swirling winds? Anyone know what exactly makes Wrigley so different.

Anyhow, It doesn’t appear that any of the other right field options Hendry is considering are anywhere near gold-glove caliber, not to mention as young or fresh as Encarnacion.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 4:55 PM CST up reply actions

more games in the sun

and RF is the “sun field” at Wrigley. Add the “well” to the list as well as going back on balls could be tricky.

But it’s not that much harder than playing RF anywhere in MLB. Just an adjustment period.

FWIW, I appreciate this thread and the time you put into it to come up with something outside the box. I enjoy reading these types of thoughts. Thanks.

by socalbob on Dec 9, 2008 5:07 PM CST up reply actions

Appreciate it.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 9:20 PM CST up reply actions

IIRC

Dye is going to be a free agent after the 09’ season. Encarnacion will not be. Will be under club control for 3 more seasons. Also Encarnacion makes the league minimum, has speed (younger more athletic). Dye makes 9.5m/yr and his numbers do not justify spending that money on an injury risk.

by scarymonsters85 on Dec 9, 2008 12:20 AM CST reply actions

I have heard that San Fransisco could be able to get him for Noah Lowry, who is no big deal.

Excuse me but what please?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!

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by cwyers on Dec 9, 2008 12:52 AM CST reply actions

I don't get your question.

My point is that if the Giants can get him for Noah Lowry, who is not an especially valuable player, it shouldn’t take much to trade for EE and therefore makes it an even better idea to trade for a player that the Reds seem to undervalue.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 9:40 AM CST up reply actions

In what universe is Lowry "not an especially valuable player"

Lowry who has averaged an ERA+ of about 110 for the last 4 years, who is signed cheaply through 2010, and is just entering his peak years?

by Wreckard on Dec 9, 2008 10:52 AM CST up reply actions

In the universe that looks at stats other than ERA.

For starters, he is coming off of major surgery. Second of all, he has awful peripherals. Pitchers with a K:BB of 1.00 don’t last in this league. He may have put up respectable ERA’s in the past but his underlying(and more important) stats point to a bleak future.

by dakoose on Dec 9, 2008 11:29 AM CST up reply actions

Joe Morgan?

Is that you?

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on Dec 9, 2008 12:06 PM CST up reply actions

I'd be just as happy ...

… with a Pie/Johnson platoon in CF and Fukudome in RF.

Sometimes the best answers are right in front of you.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Dec 9, 2008 4:09 AM CST reply actions

Should a Peavy trade occur...

it’s very likely that Pie wouldn’t be here. And the Peavy trade is the only scenario in which Encarnacion would be a discussion point.

If the Peavy trade went down without one of Pie or DeRosa moving, though, I’d rather see us just play DeRosa in RF (or platoon Pie and Johnson in CF) than trade for Encarnacion and move him to RF. I’m pretty confident DeRosa would outhit Encarnacion.

by SouthernCub on Dec 9, 2008 8:36 AM CST up reply actions

I agree.

Pray that Dome can improve himself into some reasonable degree of consistency and then, if necessary, look to a midseason trade for an upgrade.

The Encarnacion idea is interesting – definitely outside the box. But I can’t see Piniella forgoing his lefty slugger fixation in favor of a move like this.

Yes, yes ... winter is indeed a pond upon which all of us must skate, braving frostbite and runny noses in the hopes that our cars will start and we shan't embarass ourselves slipping on a patch of black ice. Spring is more a quagmire of cold mud and slush, and fall is a pile of fallen leaves that may or may not hide a pile of doggy doo-doo. But summer, ah summer is an oasis of endless green that disappears all too quickly beneath our feet as we rush through its warm, glorious bliss.

by daver on Dec 9, 2008 9:45 AM CST up reply actions

No to Encarnacion

1. There’s no guarantee he can make the transition from 3B to RF. Just because the position is easier to play doesn’t mean anyone can make the transition.
2. Encarnacion is a downgrade from what we have now offensively. His numbers last year away from Cincy were .244/.322/.439. Over the last three years, it’s .263/.328/.434. That’s below league average. Encarnacion has benefited from playing in a big-time hitter’s park.

If you’re going to go for a RH bat in RF, it had better be someone who is really better than any of the LH bat options. Frankly, I’m not convinced that Encarnacion wouldn’t be WORSE than the LH options, and I’m most certainly not convinced he’d be better.

by SouthernCub on Dec 9, 2008 8:34 AM CST reply actions