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Had the Cubs won it all in '03

I know most everybody would have signed off on a deal that included a WS title in '03 followed by a significant stretch of mediocrity. Nonetheless, for the sake of speculation let's imagine the Cubs had in fact won the title in '03, what would have become of the Cubs afterwards?

I only have bad thoughts in mind. The Cubs in '03 were actually very lucky. They didn't have a team built on much philosophy or for the long run. They were not dominating in the regular season. What they had was a team built for the postseason: they had the kind of starting pitchers that could carry you despite of everything else. They almost did.

The years following the run in '03 showed progressively the problems in the way the team was built: too much reliance on power pitching (that has more tendency to get hurt), too little focus on OBP, too many middle of the road guys in the pen instead of farmhands who didn't have a place in the starting rotation but could contributed better in the pen (Marmol probably would have never flourished as a reliever back then), too many position players with lack of production and too much playing time. Etc.

Dusty Baker was part of the problem. Hendry was another part. And perhaps a little less budgetary flexibility than they have now.

A horrible '06 prompted drastic changes, none better than the signing of Piniella (probably Hendry's best move as GM) and things have a much better outlook now than before. Everbody has a chance of playing (young or old), so long as they produce. If things aren't working, changes will be made, conventional or not. Some of the problems mentioned earlier have been addressed to differing degrees: Fukudome means more OBP, Hill means a guy with a lot of upside but not a power pitcher (which means less risk), Marmol got his shot, Soto, Hart, etc. Veternas also have to earn their playing time when they don't produce (Eyre), but they CAN earn it back (Eyre). This might not be the Red Sox, but I think there is more vision now and a better plan in '03.

Now think... had the Cubs won it all in '03... how many years of Baker? Of Neifis, Hollandsworths, Goodwins, Vereses...?  To be honest, I probably would get nightmares if I think about this too much. A WS title might be worth to sign a deal with the devil, but ufffffffffff the pain afterwards would have been plenty.

Luis

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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What you're not thinking of...
... is that, once the Cubs had won, they might have had a far easier time convincing top free agents to come to Chicago. They would have made a fortune in corporate sponsorships, probably added to the payroll, and had a chance to be what the Red Sox have become since they won their first title in 2004.

Now, assuming that Wood & Prior would have had the same injury problems in this scenario that they had in real life, it would have become a bit more difficult to maintain a topnotch pitching staff. But the base would have been built by winning.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 14, 2008 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

Well...
I don't think that free agents have ever been against coming to Chicago - losing legacy and all. It has always been about the Cubs not poning up the money. Hell, the Cubs could have had Beltran in CF if they wanted to.

What I do think is that a title would have given Hendry/Baker carte blanche for many more years than they would have deserve (i.e., Baker probably would have been kept even after his season in '06).

by Luis on Feb 14, 2008 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Forgot about Beltran
If I remember correctly, the Cubs could have had Pudge also after he destroyed us in the NLCS.  And Furcal.  

by McRipper on Feb 14, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

You are assuming...
... that '04, '05 and '06 would have happened exactly the way they did in your alternate-reality scenario. I'm saying they wouldn't have.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 14, 2008 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

The Red Sox
had been consistently good for many years before 2004. They had a team that could have won the Series any one of those seasons.

The difference between the Cubs and Red Sox is ownership. Corporate ownership is ALWAYS concerned with the bottom line. They might put a pretty face on things and say they're all about winning, but they care about stock prices and revenue (having said that, I think Tribune has been about as good of a corporate owner as could be expected, but they are a corporate owner).

The Cubs are almost always built for one season (lightning in a bottle). That's not the way to win, or put yourself in the best position to win on a yearly basis. Honestly, after 2006 I would have preferred to rebuild the right way, but that would have probably meant getting rid of Jim Hendry.

by markleonette on Feb 14, 2008 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Dusty Baker, FA magnet...
"What you're not thinking of is that, once the Cubs had won, they might have had a far easier time convincing top free agents to come to Chicago."

I remember Jim Hendry saying a few times about how Dusty was attracting all kinds of interest from free agents.

No doubt there was some, but I think that was way overstated by Hendry and run with by Cubbie fans and Cubbie fans in the media.  The top FA's wanted to play for Dusty...so long as the Cubbies offered the most money.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Feb 14, 2008 8:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Wood and Prior
I think every single Cub fan thought for sure that with Wood and Prior, we would have been competing for the World Series every year for 10 years.  I think i'm going to be sick.

by McRipper on Feb 14, 2008 12:31 PM CST reply actions  

The past 5 years have arguably been the worst 5
in Cub history, in terms of heartbreak.  Think about it:

'03 - obviously the collapse in NLCS game 6, with the team that beat us going on to win it all, their 2nd WS title in their abbreviated history.

'04 - Red Sox end their infamous "curse".

'05 - White Sox end their long dry spell.

'06 - For the 2nd straight year a hated rival wins the WS, STL.

'07 - Cubs make the playoffs, play awful and are swept.  Red Sox win WS again, further distancing them from the Cubs and mediocrity.

Sometimes I kind of wish that the '03 season never happened (so the Cubbies wouldn't have the extra pressure in the following years), but then I remember how sweet those playoffs were - until the last 2 games.

by thinskull on Feb 14, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions  

To me
The Red Sox and White Sox winning in recent years has nothing to do with the Cubs.  The fact that they also have had long World Series dry spells means nothing to me as a Cubs fan.
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Feb 14, 2008 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 14, 2008 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed as well
i don't get this need for comparison. I don't get why people hate the Sox, i don't even get why people Hate the Cardinals or ANY TEAM

why do people need to put other fans down or rub it in their noses when their teams are good? Why can't your team being good bring you joy and that be enough?

i'll never understand it...

its why many people grow up hating boston fans or yankee fans, etc because of the feelings they have when they grew up and other teams fan bases rubbed it in their face.... but for some reason people feel the need to "get back" at those fans... and thus it perpetuates this endless and useless era of pointless trash-talking where people seem to derive more pleasure out of being able to rub it in other fans faces than they actually derive internally from watching their team win

it drives me INSANE

sorry... i'll get off my soapbox now

by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 14, 2008 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I get it
The White Sox fans in my office were suprised when I was ready to talk about the playoffs with them in 2005.

I'm not a Sox fan, but I was happy to see a Chicago team do well.  

I still enjoy some good natured ribbing with Sox fans, but nothing even close to hatred loathing spite or crap that comes out of the mouths of some people.

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Feb 14, 2008 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

that's the thing
there is a difference between good natured ribbing and taunting

i think more people are focused on taunting and hating and loathing and all these emotions that i just dont understand the point to

we as fans have little impact on how the team we root for does and we as fans (most of us) have little choice in who we root for

by DartmouthCubsFan on Feb 14, 2008 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

For the record
I didn't say that I "hate" the White Sox and Cards, but they are, in fact, rivals of the Cubs.  True?  I just posted this to show that, for some fans, it's been a rough stretch.  Didn't mean this as trash talk of any kind.

by thinskull on Feb 14, 2008 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Had the Cubs won in 2003
I wouldnt feel bad for Steve Bartman anymore.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 14, 2008 3:53 PM CST reply actions  

Does anyone know...
What happened to him?  Where is he these days?

Poor guy...  That totally would have been me if I was sitting there.

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 14, 2008 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

What about 2004!
Wasn't this supposed to be one of the best rotations 1-5 ever? Oh.. .what might have been!
Photo by Phil Velas

by digitalbenjamin on Feb 14, 2008 4:12 PM CST reply actions  

wow
that picture makes me feel so many different emotions.  
kos-kay foo-koo-doh-may

by mcvc on Feb 14, 2008 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Hope held high...
Well the '04 did win 89 games, one more than '03.  That's a good season, unfortunately for the Cubbies there were two teams in the NL Central with better records.

And in '04 Zambrano did very, very well and Maddux had a very good year too.  

The let downs in the '03 staff were the ones leading left to right in that photo, Clement, Wood and Prior.

Certainly the Cubbie prospects were good for '04 and the hope was reasonable.  Just so much can go wrong in baseball.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Feb 14, 2008 8:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow....
Why does '04 seem like SOOOO long ago? I can't believe we didn't win it all with that rotation.  The most vivid memory I had from that year was driving in my car listening to a crucial Cubs/Mets game in late September when Victor Diaz (from Chicago) hit that HR off of Latroy... I had to pull over and sulk.

by CubsBullsBears on Feb 14, 2008 9:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I was
at the Illinois Purdue game in Champagne for that game, and could care less about it I had the headphones on the whole time and the game seemed like a lock, until I got to my car.

I still remember after 04, screaming at Corey Patterson for a whole game to learn how to bunt.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 15, 2008 9:36 AM CST up reply actions  

take a good look at the guy on the far right
He may be making his last ever appearance at the old north side ball yard this season as a MLB player.

Rozner spoke about this on the radio the other day that Maddog (this generation's best starting pitcher) is considering retirement after this season.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 15, 2008 6:31 AM CST up reply actions  

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