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Are Cubs fans honoring the wrong people?

I've been a Cubs fan since I first became aware of the world in the very early sixties. As a youngster, I was crushed, along with every other fan, when the '69 team collapsed. As a young adult, I thrilled to the exploits of the great '84 team (which I'm watching clinch the division again as I type this) and was devastated by its stunning defeat in the play-offs. The play-off losses in '89 and '98 were disappointing, but they weren't entirely unexpected, while the debacle of 2003 is still too painful to mention.

With that in mind, it occurred to me a couple of years ago that perhaps the reason for the Cubs' lack of success is due to the fact that we've been honoring the wrong players. I grew up idolizing Billy Williams, Ernie Banks, Fergie, and Ron Santo, and in the eighties counted Ryno, Leon Durham, Rick Sutcliffe, and Lee Smith among my favorite players. Since those are the players many of us actually saw play, it's only natural that we pay them the respect they deserve as great players.  However, the one thing all of them have in common is that they never got to the World Series.

That's why I wonder if we've been taking the wrong approach for the last forty years. Instead of paying so much tribute to the stars of our generations, maybe we should really be honoring the 1908 team for being the last Cubs team to be World Champions. Now, I'm not saying we should love the stars of our lifetimes any less, but maybe the key to changing the Cubs' fortunes is to place greater emphasis on the accomplishments of players such as Frank Chance, Mordecai Brown, Joe Tinker, and Johnny Evers and commemorate their accomplishments with banners on the flagpoles and special promotional days. I know it's hard for the vast majority of us to relate to them since they didn't play in our lifetimes, but the important thing is that they were the last Cubs team to win it all. Maybe if we honored them as much or more than our sentimental favorites, we might be able to conjure up some of their winning mojo. Since nothing else has worked for a long, long time, there would be nothing to lose by giving it a shot. At least it's a straw we haven't tried grasping yet.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Wow,
you got some spare time on your hands huh?

My 2 cents: The curse is a joke and the way you win a WS is to put together a team that works so beautifully together (ie. the Red Sox).  The Cubs give me hope this year, but then again, what the hell is new?

MMMMM...Nutrisystem!

by Kinky Reggae on Feb 18, 2008 1:38 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hear, hear.
One reason we honor the Williams/Banks/Santo/Jenkins teams is because, well, first, those four in particular were great players and three of them are Hall of Famers (should be all four).

No one here was alive when the 1908 team played, no one here can relate stories, there's no audio or video; it seems the ancient past. Not that those teams weren't great -- they were -- or worth honoring -- they are -- but it's harder to do when you have no first-person remembrances to talk about.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 18, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

There are some of us though
who really do honor the 1908 Cubs--and can name every player on that team.

This isn't a silly either/or proposition though.  One can easily honor the Brown, Chance, Evers, and Pfiester without slighting Banks, Williams, Santo and Jenkins or Sandberg, Davis, Sutcliffe and Smith.  Each were the glory of their times.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Feb 18, 2008 6:36 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely true...
... and we SHOULD honor both. My point, with which I'm sure you agree, is that the modern players get more attention because we the living actually saw them play.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 18, 2008 6:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It's human nature
to honor something or someone you can relate to and I don't think you have too many folks that can relate to the 1908 Cubs.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 18, 2008 1:44 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
GMTA! (See my post right above yours.)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 18, 2008 1:44 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

While we're at it...
we could tear down Harry's statue and replace it with the Daily Herald baseball writer from 1908.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 18, 2008 1:52 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

You must
be smoking some mojo, cough, cough:)

Seriously I for one hate the constant reminders that it has been 100 years. By running up the flagpole any of these guys names, will only continue to bring further to the forefront the futility know as the Chicago Cubs.

Nice diary though.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 18, 2008 2:22 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention
that 95% of the people in Chicago couldnt name more than 2 people from the teams
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 18, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Give me
four minutes, the internet is a wonderful thing!
"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 18, 2008 2:28 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't take this theory too seriously
I just like having fun with it, and it's inspired some lively and enjoyable conversations among my friends who are fellow Cubs fans who know better than to take me too seriously. And if anyone inferred that we shouldn't continue to honor the greats of our generation, that's not what I meant. I'm just saying that it couldn't hurt to pay some tribute to the last guys who actually won the World Series for the Cubs.

And yes, I do have too much time on my hands today since we're essentially snowed in here.  

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Feb 18, 2008 2:26 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Oh I wasn't...
sounds like it is white there!
MMMMM...Nutrisystem!

by Kinky Reggae on Feb 18, 2008 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Reminds of Letterman top 10
The time he did the shows at the Chicago Theatre
there was a top 10 list of  "Reasons the Cubs have not one
since 1908" The one I remember was
" too many players from 1908 still on team"

Stupid but funny

Anyway not readly to order my Frank Chance jersey
anytime soon.

"It's the Cubbies. There's always a vibe. It's the greatest vibe in baseball." Greg Maddux on Cub fan's optimism even after the 06 debacle.

by jessica on Feb 18, 2008 3:01 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I wear my Cap Anson jersey
 all the time, but no one can tell I am paying homage because there is no name and number on the jersey.

by frandemonium on Feb 18, 2008 3:58 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Ah, but that is the beauty of it...
No name and no number means it can be the jersey for Anson one day, Evers the next, Steinfeldt on Saturday, Wildfire Schulte on alternating Wednesdays. Not like getting stuck with a 22 jersey these days.
In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband

by Ross on Feb 18, 2008 4:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Commemorate 1908
I would think the Cubs would have a day this year in which they honor the 1908 team and wear the 1908 style uniform.
A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. ~Earl Wilson

by tucsoncubsfan on Feb 18, 2008 5:17 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

According to ...
... the promotion schedule, the only 1908 promotion is on July 9, a 1908 cap.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 18, 2008 5:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

1906-1910 Cubs
Possibly the greatest team in history...

They deserve to be honored.  Spirit of '08!

GOATBUSTERS! - I ain't afraid of no goat!

by gjdow on Feb 18, 2008 7:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

They really were
the greatest team of the deadball era.  And it's weird because only Three-Finger Brown was a slam-dunk Hall of Famer.  Tinkers/Evers/Chance all made it, but they're choices have been much criticized over the years.  (Chance's career was really too short for Cooperstown and Joe Tinker was just a solid shortstop.  I think Evers definitely deserves the honor though.)  

The team just didn't have any weaknesses.  They were solid from one to nine through the lineup and went four deep in the rotation, in a time when most teams didn't use four pitchers.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Feb 18, 2008 7:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be nice to see
the Cubs retire a few uniform numbers of players from before 1950. I realize they didn't wear numbers on their uniforms until 1932 (according to kaseyi's excellent website), but that still leaves quite a few years with some great players (Gabby Hartnett, Phil Cavaretta just to name a couple) before Ernie Banks in the 1950s. And I think the Giants retired John McGraw and Christy Mathewson's initials since they didn't have numbers.

I understand very few people around now remember these players, but the Cubs have a long history and it should be recognized better than it has been.

by markleonette on Feb 18, 2008 7:31 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

The Giants....
... have retired "plaques" for John McGraw and Christy Mathewson, who didn't wear numbers. The Cubs could and should do the same for Tinker, Evers, Chance and Brown, at the very least.

For pre-1950 players, they should retire #44 for Phil Cavarretta, #6 for Stan Hack, #2 for Gabby Hartnett and #4 for Billy Herman (Herman also wore #2, before Hartnett). Those are the greatest players of the between-the-wars era who had long careers with the Cubs.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 18, 2008 7:58 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No, I'm not
I'd have to be 120 yrs old (like that Israeli lady) to have seen the '08 (1908 that is) Cubs.

As old as my father was (he was 53 when I was born), he lived his entire 90-yr life w/o being alive - let alone seeing - Cubs WS title. He played against Phil Cavarretta when he was at LakeView high and Phil was at Lane Tech.

I honor Billy, Ryno, Ernie, Ronnie, Fergie, Randy, DonK, Milt and many others since they were premier players for the Cubs over the years.

Retiring numbers has some gray area. Where is the line drawn for accomplishment? It's a tough call. There can be a case made for 10-20 guys who's number isn't retired...yet.

Take a look at all the teams in this city, a case can be made for at least a handful of players, who's number isn't retired, to retire it soon.

For the Cubs, Jenkins will get his 31 almost by default because of another guy (what's his name again?) who may be playing his last season in 2008. My guess is one "31" will go up the LF foul pole for Fergie and another "31" will up the RF foul pole for Maddog; in the not too distant future.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 19, 2008 7:18 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

There is precedent...
... for retiring a number for two players. The Yankees retired #8 for both Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 19, 2008 8:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

My 2 cents
There is nothing wrong with honoring the good/great players of our era even though non of them won a Wolrd Series as a Cub.

My problem is putting a statue of an announcer outside the stadium who was announcer also for the Cubs 2 biggest rivals.

Reds will finish above the Cubs in the NL Central. Book it.

by wicubfan on Feb 19, 2008 9:07 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I would say
putting up the Carey statue before Banks got one was a shame.

Also, Brickhouse got dissed a bit in that process as well.  In the end, popularity sells, and Harry was the popular one.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Feb 19, 2008 10:02 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

The difference between the two....
is that Brickhouse was as popular in Chicago and the Midwest as anyone has ever been or will ever be.  Harry was a Midwest icon as well, but when he started with WGN we became a "National Cult Hero" to quote Steve Stone, and he sold the Cubs and Wrigley Field all across the country for 15 years.  There are three teams with a nationwide fan base (Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs) and you could make a strong case that Harry Caray is the reason the Cubs are in that club.  I think that is why Harry has a statue outside Wrigley Field and Jack does not.  Remember, Jack has a statue outside the Tribune Tower along Michigan Avenue, which is quite fitting since he did so much more in Chicago than just call Cubs games.  He did everything.  Both are Chicago legends in broadcasting, and both deserve all their props.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 19, 2008 12:56 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That's absolutely right on.
The statue of JB is perfectly placed. Brickhouse, as many broadcasters (note -- I'm not saying Sportscasters) of that era were not so specialized. Brickhouse, for example -- was also utilized by WGN-TV in their news department. You really had to be a jack-of-all-trades then. (Bob Bell, another example. He was more to WGN than -- "Bozo.")

Brickhouse interviewed many newsmakers in his peer group back in the 50's and 60's strictly as a news reporter. I distinctly rememeber some archival footage of him interviewing the future President Kennedy, prior to the 1960 election.

Of course, Caray talked with newsmakers too...but usually it was in a baseball context. Brickhouse would step outside the confines of sports, and from all I have read and seen, was very good.

And, the White Sox could claim Brickhouse as one of their own, too. WGN was the exclusive home of both teams, until the early 1970's. Jack's "Hey-Hey" rang out for Moose Skowron's home runs at Comiskey Park.

As an aside here -- I'm looking at a Hamms' Beer "1969 Cubs and Sox TV Schedule." 124 Cubs Games were televised, as opposed to 122 White Sox games. (Only one game of a DH was televised, says the schedule....somehow, I don't remember that)
Anyway, Brickhouse did the majority of those games...traveling with both teams.  Fellow WGN broadcasters like Lloyd Petit and Vince Lloyd and others would fill in when Brickhouse was on the road, with either team.)

Brickhouse worked the 1959 World Series with Vin Scully, for network TV.  
Brickhouse is more than a Cubs icon -- he's a true Chicago icon.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Feb 20, 2008 12:08 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

By 1969...
... the White Sox had left WGN and were on WFLD. The last year WGN did games of both teams was 1967.

But you have pointed out that back in those days, certain Cub road games were not routinely televised. For example, WGN rarely did West Coast night games, and didn't go to Canada to televise Expos/Cubs games very often.

Before 1968, when WGN did games of both teams, it was all the Cub home games and most home White Sox games. Road telecasts were rare prior to 1968.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 20, 2008 4:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Honor '08
I think the Cubs' marketing folks should put a special focus on the '08 Cubs.  The 1908 Cubs weren't just some fluky team who stumbled into a World Series, the way some mediocre teams do these days (cough cough >CARDINALS<).  They truly were the greatest team of the deadball era - the first great dynasty of the baseball century.  For those of you who can't name three people on the '08 roster, what better justification to celebrate them now?  Let's educate our fanbase!  

My sole source of 1908 knowledge is from Golenbock's "Wrigleyville", which certainly made me appreciate the drama of the 1908 season.  Recommended reading for any Cubs fan.

by MikeIowa on Feb 20, 2008 9:17 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

To learn more about...
... the 1908 Cubs and that season, I highly recommend Cait Murphy's "Crazy '08".
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 20, 2008 9:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would certainly hope....
that any knowledgeable Cubs fan would be able to name AT LEAST three players from that team.  "Baseball's Sad Lexicon" (Tinker to Evers to Chance) immortalized three of them forever.    
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 20, 2008 12:32 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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