More (But Different) Ballpark Talk

by ctcoff99 on Feb 26, 2008 12:19 PM CST Comment 86 comments

Before someone says it, I agree--I can't wait for the first Spring Training game, so that for the next seven months or so, we can talk mostly about what's happening on the field instead of speculation and rumors. These slow February days are driving me crazy.

Going back to the ballpark situation, WSCR "The Score" just reported on one of their news breaks that talks have already been "broached" (whatever that means) about the Cubs playing at least one season in U.S. Cellular Field while Wrigley Field gets a complete facelift, save the bleachers, scoreboard, and of course, the new playing field. Basically, the same thing the Bears did a few years ago, and the same thing the Yankees did in the early '70s when they played two seasons in Shea Stadium. No official sources were listed, but it was reported that this may happen as soon as the 2010 season. A lot of us have predicted, at one point or another, that this is exactly what would happen when the time came to update Wrigley. As someone who loves Wrigley Field and hates The Cell, I have to say that I think this would be a great thing. It would ensure the Cubs stay in Wrigleyville long-term. Thoughts? 48 hours until the first S.T. game!!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

0 recs | Comment 86 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

TheFreeDictionary.com says:

broach 1 (brch)
tr.v. broached, broach·ing, broach·es
1.
a. To bring up (a subject) for discussion or debate.
b. To announce: We broached our plans for the new year.

To pierce in order to draw off liquid: broach a keg of beer.
To draw off (a liquid) by piercing a hole in a cask or other container.
To shape or enlarge (a hole) with a tapered, serrated tool.

n.
1.
a. A tapered, serrated tool used to shape or enlarge a hole.
b. The hole made by such a tool.

A spit for roasting meat.
A mason's narrow chisel.
A gimlet for tapping or broaching casks.
Variant of brooch.

by Yepsen on Feb 26, 2008 12:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Oh...

And as far as playing a year in the Cell... It'd be weird but I'd deal if it meant more time with Wrigley later. The neighborhood would suck for that spring and summer though...

I suppose a year in the cell could best be described by Garth from Wayne's World: "It's like a new pair of underwear. At first it's constrictive, but after a while it becomes a part of you."

by Yepsen on Feb 26, 2008 12:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's one of the first times I think

Garth Algar could be quoted as a great thinker of his time.

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Feb 27, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully

If the Cubs do play at the cell, it is a much quieter experience than going to a sox game.

I actually wouldn't mind going to the cell, it's only like a mile from my house.(I would miss Wrigley)

"Harlem Furniture......You'll like our style!"

by Imtrejo on Feb 26, 2008 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wrigley renovation

I'm OK with the idea of a Wrigley renovation (and the Cubs playing one year at the Cell) as long as they don't mess with the bleachers, scoreboard, ivy, brick infield walls, playing field, red sign on Clark and Addison,and ambience.

I wouldn't want to come back and find out they've sacrificed 10,000 "cheap" seats for more sky boxes.

I would hope that whatever the new grandstand looked like, it would be done in a style reminiscent of what we have now, and not modern a la the Soldier Field fiasco.

I'd expect seats to remain close to the field (almost impossible not to considering the small site acreage).

I also would hope they don't go crazy with in-stadium advertising, which already has gotten too carried away in my opinion.

It would be pretty sickening to have to watch them at the Cell all year, I've got to say. If they can't promise it's ready after one year, I wouldn't go for it.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 26, 2008 12:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It's a good point, but unlikely that

the stadium owner would want to spend capital to rebuild the only new part of the stadium. The bleachers are part of the ambiance and help create the magical feel of the park.

by N Oakley on Feb 26, 2008 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Renovation

First off, playing at US Cellular would be much better than playing at Miller Park. IMO there's no way that the Cubs should ever play home games outside of Chicago. I could see them playing at US Cellular. I also wonder if this could be part of a push behind whatever facility would be built for he Olympics.

As for the renovated Wrigley, count me amongst those who has complete trust in whatever the Cubs organization does as far as the ballpark goes. They've done as good of a job as could be expected on their previous renovations. Take one walk through the myriad of new ballparks and you realize that Wrigley's concourse is an absolute dump. The bathrooms are totally inadequate. The grandstands also need a major upgrade.

DmL

by dmlichte on Feb 26, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I think they would be smart about it....

because they realize they are dealing with sacred ground. If you look at the previous renovations or additions--lights, skyboxes, new bleachers, etc.--none it really took away from the Wrigley aura. But I agree that the outside of the grandstand and the inner concourse are looking pretty bad. I doubt they would change much in terms of appearance, but everything would be new, and I'm sure there would be more skyboxes somewhere and maybe a restaurant/bar somewhere in addition to or instead of The Stadium Club. I think they would do it right.

It might have something to do with the Olympics, but since the main site is supposed to be the Washington Park area and along with south lake front, I would imagine that from a convenience standpoint, they would probably use The Cell for any baseball/softball events. But you never know. They may want to show off the new Wrigley Field to the world.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 26, 2008 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thats an interesting point

but at the same time I cant help but think that if that was part of their plan they would be talking it up now so that they could use that as part of their Olympic bid.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Feb 26, 2008 1:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Olympics

One thing that is interesting, is there has been no mention of using U.S. Cellular or Wrigley in the 2016 Olympic bid, because as I understand it baseball & softball were voted out of the Olympics in 2005. They will still be included in 2008, but will not be part of them in 2012. However no new sports have been added, so they could return in 2016. I don't think there has been any discussion of alternate use for these venues. I think it would be a great use of two of our existing facilities for the 2016 bid.

by cubsscoop on Feb 26, 2008 3:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that if Chicago won the bid

you would see baseball and softball be allowed in again because how big of a baseball town Chicago is.

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Feb 27, 2008 12:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Olympics

Host cities are often allowed to add a sport for their games as a courtesy by the International Olympic Committee. So I agree that baseball would likely be added if Chi-town were awarded the games.

I want my Macias!

by wombat on Feb 27, 2008 9:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

olympic baseball at wrigley would be cool

oh and the cell too I suppose.

that being said, I could see the games being played in the cell thanks to our mayor's choice in teams.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Feb 27, 2008 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Could you imagine the World Baseball Classic

equivalent in the Olympics right here in ChiTown? Only hockey is better with the international balance on the Olympic-size stage over decades of history.

I believe a widely successful World Baseball Classic in '09 and again in '12 may bode very well for '16 Olympic baseball. We'll find out in 20 months if ChiTown wins the Olympic bid or not.

If we do, that may be yet another reason to renovate Wrigley...

by blackhawk24 on Feb 27, 2008 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of the first ST game...

...I see where MLB is advertising their MLB TV and Gameday Audio packages as having over 150 Spring Training games available. But I haven't been able to find a listing anywhere showing WHICH games will be aired. Any ideas?

BTW - First homer of the year belongs to David Wright (NYM) - he homered his first time up off someone named Katzman for the University of Michigan. Man, those Wolverines just can't catch a break... (said the native Buckeye rather smugly...)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 26, 2008 12:51 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

The Cubs games...

...are on the schedule.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Feb 26, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

On MLB.com's schedule

They have a little TV icon when the game is shown on MLB.tv.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/schedule/index.jsp#20080226

Old Style is the nectar of life.

by Mordecai on Feb 26, 2008 1:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Swear to God...

...those little TV icons weren't there an hour ago. I went through the entire "3 day at a glance" view for March and didn't see a one of them. But now they're there. Hmm... could the inquiring e-mail I sent to the MLB online media folks cause them to act in a customer-friendly quick and responsive manner??? Naaaaaahhhhh... I must have just not seen them.

Thanks for the help.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Feb 26, 2008 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does that mean

we'd have to endure all that fucking noise, even between pitches? Yet another reason to like Wrigley's presentation.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 26, 2008 1:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If the Cubs played at the Cell...

... they'd have their people running things during their home games. Precedent: When the Marlins played two home games at the Cell in 2004 due to hurricanes, they brought their own marketing stuff, mascot, scoreboard videos, etc.

I doubt the Cubs would have all the "noise", though they might make use of the Jumbotron, at least for more information.

There's no way the Cubs would ever play home games at Miller Park. First, it would be logistically impossible to create a schedule where the Brewers and Cubs were never home on the same dates. And while yes, they could "double up" on a few dates, they couldn't do so dozens of times a year. Finally, although a fair number of Cub fans live within an hour's drive of Miller Park, that wouldn't be fair to the rest of us who don't.

The Cell makes sense IF they had to close Wrigley for a year for renovations. However, I have also heard it proposed that the renovations to the main grandstand could be done in sections, over several offseasons (or partly, even DURING seasons) so the Cubs wouldn't have to move at all.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Renovation is desperately needed

Wrigley is past due for a major modernization. Playing at U.S. Cellular Field for one year is a relative small price to pay to fix an old ballpark before the only viable option becomes the wrecking ball.

by MDBNIU on Feb 26, 2008 1:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

OMG WHAT IF THEY WON THE WS PLAYING THERE?!

by Jerry Mumphrey on Feb 26, 2008 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I would honestly root against them if itcametothat

by Jerry Mumphrey on Feb 26, 2008 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would truly be....

the Baseball gods ultimate twisting of the knife to Cub fans. To make sure that even if they ever did let us win the World Series, there would always be a "yeah, but..." attatched to it, and the Sox fans would always have something to hold over our heads about it. It would almost be the final straw to making me honestly believe in the Wrigley Field curse if that happened. Fortunately, I think we will win the World Series this year, and none of us will have to worry about it.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 26, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

thats a terrible twist that I never thought of

but will haunt me.

to take it even further. Imagine a Cubs - Sox WS with all games played at comiskey.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Feb 26, 2008 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be weird, all right...

... but you know what? I'd take it. We'd all take it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

amen

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Feb 26, 2008 2:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And when we won...

what would be sweeter than going bat s#it crazy in their house if we couldn't do it in Wrigley?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 26, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Bingo!

That would be great fun.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And in the ultimate unlikeliness...

What if the Sox returned to 2005 form that year, and we had a Cubs/Sox WS. A 1 stadium World Series...

by Yepsen on Feb 26, 2008 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's happened in the past

In 1944, the Browns played the Cardinals in the World Series. All games took place at Sportsman Park, which I believe the teams shared that year.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 26, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't know that...

I had wondered about it as I posted that, but didn't bother to research it... It would be interesting to what the MLB would do if that actually happened again...

by Yepsen on Feb 26, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

I swear I am much more literate than that post would imply, on day 3 of my flu, I think that it has begun to eat at my brain.

by Yepsen on Feb 26, 2008 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I feel your pain.

I have called in sick for tomorrow, too. I still haven't been able to eat anything all day. Feel crappy. This flu strain is very virulent.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

CDC says...

strains are way different than what they formulated for this season.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 26, 2008 3:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what my doctor told me yesterday, too.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Typo

I meant Sportsman's Park

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 26, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Cubbies have...

...played a World Series at old Comiskey Park against the Red Sox back in 1918. The grand old Comiskey was chosen over the Cubbies new park, Wrigley (or whatever it was called then).

The first three games of the series were at Comiskey and the Cubbies lost 2 of 3 at Comiskey. The Cubbies lost the series to Boston too.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Feb 26, 2008 6:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The stated reason...

... for playing those games at Old Comiskey was its larger capacity (at the time, Weeghman Park -- it had not yet been renamed -- seated about 16,000, Comiskey about 30,000). They did draw more than they could have on the North Side, but none of the three games in Chicago sold out -- they drew 19,274, 20,040, and 27,054.

Incidentally, the Red Sox themselves had chosen to play their previous two World Series (1915 and 1916) home games at Braves Field, for the same reason.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Baseball palace...

Comiskey and Wrigley were designed by the same person. However, at that early stage there really was no comparison as Comiskey was a beautiful baseball palace, Wrigley at that point was a low-budget knock-off.

No doubt they picked Comiskey for the seating capacity but Comiskey was also at that time a much better facility.

Clearly though Wrigley improved thru the years while the grand old Comiskey sadly was allowed to fall in disrepair. That's the tale though of so many historical buildings from Chicago's past.

"...the Sox ... may be even more marginal after the Cubs win the 2007 World Series." - Cubbie fan "Joe Alberti" as posted in the White Sox NG on 9/21/2007.

by DrCrawdad on Feb 26, 2008 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Plus back then, Weeghman Park

didn't have the upper deck; that didn't go in until 1926 and about the same time, the name was changed to Wrigley

by blackhawk24 on Feb 27, 2008 5:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

Then I would have to believe there's a curse.

by Seattle Mike on Feb 26, 2008 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Something better

Forget the Cell. For that one season play in a beefed up college field/stadium. Make it like old time baseball. Sure, not as many fans would be able to go but it would be worth the sacrifice rather than go to the cell.

Or on 2nd thought, can't Soldier Field be used?

Cubs will win WS this year, so above scenerio won't happen.

by coral on Feb 26, 2008 2:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

As much as I'd like not too

it'd have to be the cell for logistics and planning purposes.

Soldier can't possibly have foul lines of any length even if the plate is in the middle of the field's width near one goal post. Even CF won't be that long.

Miller is too far and scheduling would be a nightmare. There's no olympic stadium within hundreds of miles.

Does U-of-I Champaign have a baseball stadium, yikes...

They'd only have to play elsewhere if the plans are to rip the 2nd deck down and rebuild. That hasn't been determined as needed has it?

Isn't this all predicated on Zell getting his way and selling the ballpark to the state? What would BudLight and MLB have to say about this?

by blackhawk24 on Feb 26, 2008 2:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

According to "The Score"....

they have also said that MLB is aware of the talks and have not objected. Doubtful that Bud Light would even be affected because I doubt the bleachers would be touched. It would be the grandstand that would be renovated. And Champaign was a logistical nightmare while the Bears were there because of the lack of hotel rooms. Although Memorial Stadium seats 70,000, most people who attend U of I games are within easy driving distance.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 26, 2008 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

Sarcastically, I meant Bud Light as the commish, not the brew. Should have spelled it differently.

So if I read into this [whole story] a little, is this really a way to get big-ass skyboxes in the ballpark and they'll do it under the disguise of the 'crumbling upper deck', hmmm....

What perspective team owner is gonna want to rent Wrigley and not have control of the revenue stream? And on top if it all, be chained there for 30 years? Who knows what the hell is gonna happen by 2038 or later.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 26, 2008 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well for starters I'll be 54...

seriously though. I'll start paying closer attention to all of this when I start seeing artist renderings.

AC 00 00 00 - BELIEVE

by mike on Feb 26, 2008 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

U of I does have a field

But it's only a little bigger than a high school stadium I'd say. At that rate, we could look at these:
-Alexian Field
-Elfstrom Stadium
-That stadium where the Thunderbolts play
-Silver Cross Field

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Feb 27, 2008 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

In 1984

There was talk that the Cubs would have to play their post-season games at Busch Stadium (UGH!) due to no lights at Wrigley.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 26, 2008 3:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Actually....

there was recently a story in one of the Chicago papers in which former MLB commissioner Peter Ueberroth revealed that had the Cubs won the NLCS over San Diego (which they felt sure would happen after the first two games), the WS games in Chicago would have been played at Comiskey, because the TV contract with ABC guaranteed all night games and playing at Wrigley would have meant a breach of contract by MLB. Apparently, the Commissioner's Office was working on how to announce what they knew would be a very unpopular decision, but as it turned out, they never had to announce it.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 26, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Read my article...

... on the 20th anniversary of the first night game at Wrigley Field in Wrigley Season Ticket 2008 for a detailed debunking of Ueberroth's claim. It is patently false.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 26, 2008 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I will do that.

I'm anxious to get my copy.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 26, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not so fast

Though reconstruction and modernization of Wrigley is desperately needed, it won't happen anytime soon. Rest assured this will be a political football. You've got the thorny issue of landmark status and the inevitable influence of Da Maya to play out. Not to mention the need to appease the bickering fools in Springfield.

by MDBNIU on Feb 26, 2008 4:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

You from Bahston?

We native Chicagoan say Da Mare, thank you very much.

by Seattle Mike on Feb 26, 2008 10:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But when we move to Seattle

We forget to proofread.

by Seattle Mike on Feb 26, 2008 10:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess

I don't really get a vote since I haven't been to Wrigley in a decade, but if it takes shutting down Wrigley for a season to give it the remodel it needs to last another 80 years, I'm all for the Cubs playing a season at the Cell.

And I wouldn't be heartbroken at all if they won the World Series that season.

And other than the 1944 Series that was played completely at Sportsman's Park, the 1921 and 1922 World Series between the Yankees and Giants were played completely at the Polo Grounds. Yankee Stadium opened in 1923.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Feb 26, 2008 6:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

How is it

that as a Cub fan you haven't been to Wrigley Field in that long?!

Yet you write about the Cubs minor league stuff so fervently.

Are you boycotting? Have trouble traveling?

Don't like the place? Can't take off work (ever)?

Every Cub fan Anglean I know at least catches a game live every few years or so. How, as a great Cubs fan, can you stay away from the Baseball Mecca for ten years?

Shoot - I even see the Cubs at Dodgers Stadium.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Feb 26, 2008 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've been to dozens of Cub games

both major and minor leagues over the years. I've seen them at Dodger Stadium, Angels Stadium, Phone Company Park and two San Diego stadiums. I'm psyched that I'm finally going to get to see the I-Cubs at Raley Field this May. I don't need to justify my fan status to you or anyone else.

But I live in California, my parents (including my dying father), sister and six nieces and nephews live in Maine and my in-laws live in Idaho (where I can catch minor league Cub games) and Washington.

When I get money and vacation time, I'm afraid Chicago is not high on my list. I put my family first.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Feb 27, 2008 12:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you've earned...

...the title Cubs fan.

If anything, it would do some of you "big Cubs" fans a favor to take a trip to Tenessee, or Peoria or Des Moines to check out what life's really like on the farm.

Going to one real Cubs game is a total luxury for my family and me. I can't wait until our boys' second Cubs game on August 29th!

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 27, 2008 11:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano: "I'm afraid of the wall"

The Cubs $135 Million LF admits that he's afraid of what lies behind the ivy at Wrigley. Now, that obviously isn't news to most of us, what is news to me is that he says he's just afraid of the bricks at Wrigley. Last I checked, CHase Field's wall isn't made up of bricks.

Reason I put this here is, the Cubs apparently already added a 4 feet to the Warning track to appease Soriano, would it be possible to grow ivy on bricks made of foam? Me thinks Soriano would then find out he's allergic to Ivy altogether.

My favorite part of this article however by Sullivan was this nugget of hilarity which I had never heard of before:

Soriano isn't the first Cubs outfielder with a fear of the wall. Back in the 1940s, Lou "the Mad Russian" Novikoff supposedly refused to make catches at the wall at Wrigley because of a fear of spiders. Soriano's trepidation has nothing to do with eight-legged creatures but a lot to do with what's behind the ivy.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 1:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Well, for $136M

he should learn and quickly. He will have at his disposal from now on; an extra 4' of track.

Perhaps the coaches should show him the clip of Fuld running, catching, crashing, turning and throwing last year, to complete a 9-3 DP.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 27, 2008 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Id rather not

have our leftfielder smashing into the brick. Jumping up into them is a different story. IMO, Sam Fuld will be remembered for that catch only.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 27, 2008 10:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You're correct

I don't either. I just don't want to hear this as an excuse. Learn how to use the warning track. Though in my early years, I didn't have a brick wall stopping me in CF, I didn't have rather stiff cyclone fence posts there. I had to learn from my coaches how to feel for the track while following the trajectory of the ball.

Well Sori, you have 4' more of track; use it to your advantage.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 27, 2008 11:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is the key right here.

The 4 feet of extra warning track should help.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 27, 2008 11:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Cubs need to dump the brick...

And put some padding back there. The ivy could grow on padded walls.

I don't blame him one bit. It's called protecting our $136 million investment.

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 27, 2008 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano

Seems like a complicated person - a player with a lot of special needs.

He has to play a certain position. He has to hit leadoff. He has to play cautiously around the wall.

Etc.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 27, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah... he's in it for the championship...

An open invitation to visit Des Moines and watch the Iowa Cubs...

by IowaCubs- on Feb 27, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That is the weakest and lamest excuse ever

So since he makes $136 Million he shouldn't do anything that might hurt him? What's next? He shouldn't dive? We wouldn't want our $136 Million dollar investment to get hurt. He shouldn't be stretching doubles into triples because he might hurt his leg again? Afterall, it's only one extra base, afterall.

As a matter of fact, he shouldn't be sprinting, period! Why take the risk of hurting our 136 million dollar investment. He should also be on a strict 3 swings per game basis. Wouldn't want him pulling a muscle or anything.

NOONE is saying he should wrecklessy jump into the wall but with him, it's just not that he's afraid to run into the wall, but because he is afraid of the wall, he let's alot of balls go over his head, before they even hit the wall. There are a lot of techniques to playing the OF to know how close you are to the wall and whether or not you have a chance of catching that ball. He should put more time into learning those techniques and less time being afraid of running into the wall.

Like I said, it's not just the wall at Wrigley, it's any wall in the League that he's afraid of.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He could always move him back to 2nd, right?

I'd prefer the bad IF defense to messing up Wrigley so he can play a below-average LF.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Feb 27, 2008 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Deal with it

Not you, Fonzie. Anyone who's ever played the OF learned how to negotiate the wall, or in my case 10' cyclone fence. While the fence area moves easily those posts don't.

It's like a hockey player afraid of the boards. We have a saying about a player afraid to go to the boards for a loose puck, "he can go into the corners with a dozen eggs and not break one of them". Granted its more rough than baseball but the idea is the same. Learn to navigate the hazards of the game.

No one is changing Wrigley. Fonzie has to learn how to do it. It would have been a good idea (why didn't I think of it sooner) to make the HoHoKam track the same width as the expanded track now at Wrigley. That'd give him and the other OF'ers a few weeks head start. Wrigley's track is 4' wider now so this should help him and the other OF'ers as the season progresses.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 27, 2008 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is a good start

Let's turn it into an equation:

Complicated Person + Player With Special Needs = Way Too Much Spent on Contract

by blackhawk24 on Feb 27, 2008 12:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe its just me, but...

... I would give a free pass--at least for a little while--to the offensive dynamo who carried our offense last September and who incidentally lead the league in outfield assists (again).

But then again, maybe that's just me.

by Orval Overall on Feb 27, 2008 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah for $136 million dollars

He really shouldn't have to try and improve upon his weaknesses. As long as he's good at one thing (hitting), that's good enough for me.

He's got his money, why should he have to give everything he has on Defense. I mean, he's only going to be playing at Wrigley for another 6 years.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess...

leading the league in OF assists the last 2 years (tied in 2007) doesn't count much huh?

Come on, we didn't sign Tori Hunter to play LF for us. We got a guy to mash the ball and steal bases. I don't recall the outrage toward Sammy's subpar defense, or is this just because of the size of his contract?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 27, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because Sammy was putting up historic numbers

at the plate. Soriano did not put up historic numbers at the plate last season, by far.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

RE: Sosa

Sosa wasn't a terrible Right Fielder either. Sure he wasn't the greatest, but he did for the most part, gave it his all on Defense, which goes a long way with me. Sosa never admitted he was "afraid" of the wall at Wrigley.

I can remember a couple times when Sosa alligatored it at the wall and he would hear it from the crowd.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Admitting fear...

is bad? I think it takes a pretty confident guy to publicly state "Hey, I'm kinda afraid of (fill in the blank)".

As for me...I'm afraid of

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 27, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

2 things....

1. his quote says...

"The only problem I have sometimes is running backward because I'm scared of hitting the wall. But I'm working very hard in spring training to get better."

emphasis mine.

He says he's working on it, can't we at least give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do once the season starts?

2. Yes, Sammy put up historic numbers. I don't want to remind you of how most of us think he was doing it in light of some recent events. (cough cough)

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 27, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

I'm not trying to toally bust Sori's nugs, it's more of this attitude by some Cub fans that It's ok to have fear of running into a brick wall or feel that it's acceptable to not overcome his fears and learn the proper technique of going back on a ball near the wall, because he makes $136 Million and we don't want him to get hurt, so it's ok or that he "carried" the club (isn't that what he gets paid so much money for???) in Sept. (where was he in the playoffs?). I don't buy it. THose sound like excuses to me.

This is a new year and his 2nd year at Wrigley and it's a new year. He's got a clean slate on this subject, for now. And after 2 or 3 times of pulling short on a ball over his head and at the wall, he should be booed mercilessly :)

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that...

... the extra warning track will be a big help to him (and other outfielders too). I don't think any of us really realize how much of a difference the new playing surface is going to make in many different ways.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Feb 27, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sammy

I do recall Sammy making some outstanding plays out there. I don't remember him dogging it more than a few times. And he had a good arm, although he didn't always seem to know where the ball would end up after he threw it.

"Have Keith Moreland drop a routine fly. Give everybody two bags of peanuts and a frosty malt, And I'll be ready to die." -Steve Goodman

by danimal15 on Feb 27, 2008 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

to plaigarize a little...

the point made by Santo's wooden leg could just as appropriately be said in response to you. Again, this whole debate started because of a quote in which Soriano acknowledged his fear and added: "BUT I'M WORKING VERY HARD IN SPRING TRAINING TO GET BETTER."

Somehow that feeds a thread in which he's described as arrogant and not "learn[ing] the proper technique of going back on a ball near the wall, because he makes $136 Million." How on earth do you get from point A to point B?

I am so grateful games start tomorrow -- finally give people a chance to complain about something real, not a non-issue like this is.

by Orval Overall on Feb 27, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Something real?

You make it sound like I'm making this up? That during game 1 (or 2) Soriano literally gave up on a ball that was close to the wall and jumped into the wall feet first and head solely focused on the wall as the ball almost hit him in the head.

That wasn't real? Or the countless other times at Wrigley he gave up on a ball at the wall? That wasn't real either?

As I said, but clearly some people don't have the greatest of reading comprehnsion's, that I acknowledged he said he was working on it and it is a new year and a clean slate for him this year, but after the 2nd or 3rd time he does it, he should hear about it from the fans. Really.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I will admit though

Tomorrow is the start of Spring Training games and I'm willing to set aside a lot of the negatives on this team as it's a new year and everyone has a clean slate.

I'll drop it. Otherwise It's just:

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Feb 27, 2008 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

interesting...

... how did Soriano's fear of the brick wall at Wrigley cause him to pull up on a ball in "game 1 (or 2)", which were played at Chase Field in Arizona?

Must be a pretty overpowering fear to carry from Chicago to Phoenix.

Anyways, yes, I meant something real as in something not as contrived as this.

by Orval Overall on Feb 27, 2008 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

sarcasm

I like it...

For $136M he should be playing his ass off; period.

There's a way to play aggressively without hurting yourself. I've seen that Rowand [Philly] catch a dozen times. He looks like a careless ass-clown out there. That's not what I want to see from Fonzie.

You know lost in all of this is how he starts his movement once the ball is hit. What makes Pie so good in the OF; especially at a relatively young age? It's his break on the ball when it is hit. Fonzie working on his break-on-contact will help his overall defence.

by blackhawk24 on Feb 28, 2008 6:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs