Baseball's worst players...

by cubs0505 on Feb 4, 2008 12:38 PM CST

Dayn Perry (Yes, he's a hack. We can still discuss the hackery he puts out.) has a new column out in which he picks his worst starting player at each position (not including pitcher/DH). Interesting is the fact that two former Cubs appear on this list. For the full article, go here:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7737168/Position-by-position-look-at-MLB's-worst

While I can't respect most of what Perry puts out, I will give him kudos for recognizing what the Brewers apparently could not, that Jason Kendall is going to get SLAUGHTERED, both offensively and defensively.

Also, does Juan Pierre deserve the "nod" at left field? Not sure who off the top of my head would be worse, though.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Ouch...for the Giants

Thats gotta hurt

Chuck Norris is a Cubs fan...

by Walker71421 on Feb 4, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions

ha i like it

reading something like that just makes me feel even better about the cubs chances this year, ha and the giants with three on the list, classic who knows what that team ever is thinking. they should have been rebuilding since that world series appearance, yet they continue to put the oldest team on the field every year.

Bill James Felix Pie 2008 Projection: .283/.333/.456 16 HR 21 SB

by kylejo on Feb 4, 2008 12:48 PM CST reply actions

This list is such a crapshoot.

Seriously?

Defensively, he still makes the routine plays and the occasional highlight grab, but his range is now well below average.

What? Are you serious, Dayn Perry? You think Omar Vizquel is now a well below average defensive shortstop? Get off the Internet right the hell now, son. The only one better last season was Adam Everett. I'm willing to let John McDonald into this conversation as well, but that's about it.

It's not entirely enough to offset his attrocious offense - he's a below average shortstop overall, probably by about a win. But worst? Hardly. [The worst shortstop in all of baseball last season? I haven't thoroughly researched this, but I feel confident in saying it was Felipe Lopez. Guy hit like Adam Everrett and fielded like Hanley Ramirez. Damn he was horrible.]

I could go on (and I think it'd be really fun to stir the pot by making the case for Vernon Wells as the worst center fielder) but I'll abstain.

That said... I fail to see a way he isn't the worst regular center fielder next season that doesn't involve Joe Torre taking his job away.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Feb 4, 2008 1:36 PM CST reply actions

By he I of course mean Juan Pierre.

n/t

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Feb 4, 2008 1:37 PM CST up reply actions

I see a way...

that Pierre won't be the worst regular CF next year: Andruw Jones will be playing CF for the Dodgers. Pierre is going to be relegated to LF.

As for Vizquel, in fairness I have to say that Perry didn't quite say that Vizquel was well below average defensively. He just said that Vizquel's range is well below average. Now, I haven't done the research to confirm/deny, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.

by SouthernCub on Feb 4, 2008 3:26 PM CST up reply actions

Giants

that's got to be depressing to be a giants fan knowing that 3 of your 4 starting infield men are the worst in their positions in baseball.

by cubsmania on Feb 4, 2008 1:40 PM CST reply actions

re: Giants

"Oh, yeah?" a Giants fan responds. "Well at least we've got Barry Bonds! What's that? Aw, crap..."

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 4, 2008 1:55 PM CST up reply actions

Shortstop

Did he forget that Cesar Izturis is still in the major leagues? While Mr. Perry didn't come to praise Cesar, he didn't come to bury him, either.

by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Feb 4, 2008 1:57 PM CST reply actions

lol

A Shakespeare reference at bcb. I'm told that Dayn Perry is an honorable man.

Honestly, the guy NEVER says word one bad about his precious cardinals. Izturis is obviously worse than vizquel. Adam Kennedy should be pretty high on the list of worst 2b as well.

by Thelonious on Feb 4, 2008 4:05 PM CST up reply actions

Pierre

His puss arm doesn't even get mentioned. Guys will be tagging up on him left and right.

Ray King could tag and score standing up on a shallow fly to left!

They're not booing, they're saying FUUUUUUUUUUUKE!

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Feb 4, 2008 2:32 PM CST reply actions

Just reading Jason Kendall's name...

...fills me with excitement about this season. If Soto matches or, dare I say, exceeds his projections, we could be looking at one of the most remarkable position player upgrades in recent memory. And the fact that we traded Kendall to our primary division rival...well, it just doesn't get much better than that.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 4, 2008 2:39 PM CST reply actions

No

trade. Kendall signed as FA with the Brewers. Not sure what the Brewers thinking is.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 4, 2008 2:49 PM CST up reply actions

re: No

Oh, yeah...you're right. It wasn't a trade. My bad.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 4, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions

re: No

Oh, yeah...you're right. It wasn't a trade. My bad.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 4, 2008 3:44 PM CST up reply actions

Dang...

...you were so right, I had to say it twice.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 4, 2008 3:47 PM CST up reply actions

Twice more

than my wife has ever admitted to.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 4, 2008 4:22 PM CST up reply actions

The list is

longer. At third alone you have Glauss(STL), McPherson(FL)and even Garciaparra could rival for worst at third. Another SF player, LF Roberts. I think I would take Pierre over him.

At first I think I would nominate Hatteberg(CIN).

And I have to believe both at the plate and field our former Cardinal friend now with SD, Edmonds is at the end of the road.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 4, 2008 3:09 PM CST reply actions

And another

thing that kind of irks me about naming Pierre as the worst LF is this. He does not mention that he is moving over to left to make room for a gold glover and forty homer guy. So if they put Jones in LF, and Pierre stayed in CF, would Pierre be the worst CF?

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Feb 4, 2008 3:15 PM CST reply actions

What?

No Matt Murton? Perry really doesn't know what he's talking about then.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Feb 4, 2008 4:47 PM CST reply actions

I'm not even reading this link.

Dayn Perry is an idiot.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 4, 2008 5:09 PM CST reply actions

Sorry Al

I just couldn't resist.

"Hey! If the moon were made of ribs, wouldja eat it? I know I would!"

by cubs0505 on Feb 4, 2008 5:39 PM CST up reply actions

Did Neifi make the list?

There is no place like Nebraska - Go Huskers!

by sanantonecub on Feb 4, 2008 5:36 PM CST reply actions

That is a good article...

For me to poop on.

Elbow above the shoulder. Below is a no no.

by number1cubfan on Feb 4, 2008 9:20 PM CST reply actions

You said it, brother!

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 5, 2008 3:18 PM CST up reply actions

humor me -

- why exactly is dayn perry an idiot, a hack, or whatever he is being called here? is there any specific thing he's written, or just in general?

i've met the guy and liked him - in fact, i took him to his very first ever cubs game at wrigley when he moved to chicago a few years back, he was dating a friend at the time - and other than the fact he is a cardinals fan, i thought he wasn't too bad. he lamely dumped our friend later that year, but seemed alright.

enlighten me please.

by paulreuschel on Feb 4, 2008 9:58 PM CST reply actions

Dayn Perry

Dayn Perry and the majority of his fellow saber-journalists are an odd breed. I'd be stunned to learn of Perry ever played an inning of organized ball in his entire life. This latest article adds to his mountain of written horse hoey.

by MDBNIU on Feb 4, 2008 10:23 PM CST reply actions

Oh please.

There is so exceedingly little in that column that required being "sabermetric" to write that it's painful.

That's what annoys me the most about the piece, actually. For someone that Fox Sports hired away from BP, Perry does so little real statistical analysis.

It's kind of like when CNN wanted to try and pry away some of Fox News' audience, so they hired away... Paula Zahn, the person at Fox News who perhaps least emblemized the difference between the two organizations. He represents so little of what makes statsy baseball analysis compelling.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Feb 5, 2008 12:21 AM CST up reply actions

This really gets

me:

I'd be stunned to learn of Perry ever played an inning of organized ball in his entire life.

Why is that a prerequisite for being a good sportscaster/sportswriter? On thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. It's like telling Gail Godwin to involve herself in an abusive relationship before she writes about women in abusive relationships. Dayne Perry is a hack, not because he never played "organized ball"--which has not been established, BTW--but because he displays obvious favoritism for his favorite teams his journalistic pieces, half-asses his stats, and puts out hackneyed drivel, like this particular column, that are pointless, venomous examples of overt bias.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Feb 5, 2008 6:49 AM CST up reply actions

Disagree

If you are going to earn a living dissecting baseball then you need to have played and breathed the game to at least some minimal level in your lifetime. I don't care if its a few years of little league as a bench warmer. I played organized ball from childhood throughout high school. That experience gave me immeasurable understanding of what is involved with hitting, pitching, fielding, throwing, staying healthy, executing, playing fundamentally smart, what it means to hit and run, etc... My youthful playing days certainly didn't make me "expert" or a "know-it-all," but it did provide me with strong appreciation for what really happens out there on the field. This is something that a lot of the "saber-journalists" have poor clue on. Honestly, how am I supposed to respect Dayn Perry's comments on the defensive prowess of the 41 year Omar Vizquel?? Vizquel will go down in baseball history as one of the finest gloveman ever to play shortstop. He might be in the sunset of his career and have lost a step, but he still remains one of the better shortstops in the NL. As I'm sure anybody who is semi-knowledgeable and follows the San Francisco Giants on a semi-regular basis can attest to.

by MDBNIU on Feb 5, 2008 9:52 AM CST up reply actions

Ok seriously

Playing in high school makes you understand a sport in a way that you never will if you didn't? And you can just say, with absolute certainty, that none of these "saber-journalists", people who obviously love baseball with a passion, played in high school?

Do me a favor: site one source that says Perry did not play in high school. Or better yet, name one "saber-journalist" who you can verify did not play baseball in high school. Just one.

You're making an assumption about Perry and attacking him on that assumption. That's not just absurd. It's retarded.

by Wreckard on Feb 5, 2008 12:44 PM CST up reply actions

Actually retarded is

"relatively slow in mental or emotional or physical development"

It says nothing about attacking another bases on assumption.

Really; retarded? I know Im being sensitive here but I take offense to that. Stay out of the Dan Bernstein neighborhood and choose a better word.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 5, 2008 2:03 PM CST up reply actions

Re:

I know Im being sensitive here

Yes.

On the one hand, I'm genuinely sorry if I have seriously offended anyone with my decidedly non-PC (and possibly poor) choice of words. I certainly would never aim to undermine my own point by using words that hurt my credibility, nor would I ever seek to offend anyone who's had to deal with developmental disabilities first hand.

On the other hand, you're an adult and can probably cope.

In the future I will try to use my copy of "Merriam-Webster's Edgy Thesaurus, Internet Edition (Abridged)", which in this case would have led me to use a different term such as "pants-pissingly stupid", "Joe Morgan-esque", or "like someone vomited and the vomit became sentient and typed out your post for you."

Though that might offend sufferers from enuresis, sub-literate sports commentators, and self-aware piles of goo so I guess I just can't win.

by Wreckard on Feb 5, 2008 3:20 PM CST up reply actions

Ha,

actually youre alternatives are better. No offense to you at all and I understand the context you were saying it in. I just think that there are so words that are thrown around in the wrong context and this is one of them.

Yes, I can cope, the way I look at it Ill correct people using words like that one person at a time, thats the best I can do.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Feb 5, 2008 3:48 PM CST up reply actions

Thank you...

... for handling this in a really good way. And it wound up being funny, too.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 5, 2008 8:05 PM CST up reply actions

Most political pundits...

have never been president, but they sure critique him and the candidates every chance they get.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 5, 2008 12:47 PM CST up reply actions

Oh, and I can damn well figure out...

...that Vizquel is a plus defensive shortstop with the cursed and reviled tool of the infidel, the spreadsheet. Just saying.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Feb 5, 2008 12:57 PM CST up reply actions

But wait,

even if you say Vizquel is good defensive shortstop, your opinion can't be respected unless you played the game!

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Feb 5, 2008 7:36 PM CST up reply actions

Number one,

you should disagree with everything Dayne Perry writes, on principle. He's almost never correct. Disrespect his opinion of Vizquel because it's clearly wrong, a fact which nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not he played baseball.

Number two, address the argument I made, not the one you wanted me to make.

Number three, playing the game hasn't made much of analyst out of Mark Grace, nor much of a writer out of Rick Telander.

Number four, find me proof that Dayne Perry never played. Your whole argument is premised on if's and but's.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Feb 5, 2008 7:40 PM CST up reply actions

Comment from that board:

"dayne perry you are foxsports.com's worst columnist... how do you like it?"

Soriano's Contract: Approximately one dollar for every pitch in the dirt that he swings at.

by Ryno8 on Feb 5, 2008 12:55 AM CST reply actions

What's so sad....

is that many Giants fans don't understand how bad their players really are. Many of them still think that Omar Vizquel is one of the best shortstops in the league, or have fond recollections about Rich Aurillia because he had a few good years during their Dusty era, and therefore believe that he is still a good ballplayer. Their upper management has been SO pathetic over the years it is absolutely no surprise to me that they have some of the worst position players in the game. Its a shame that the franchise talent they have in Matt Cain and Lincecum are going to be wasted. They could have picked up a bunch of wins at a young ages.

by WUSTLCubsFan on Feb 5, 2008 9:18 PM CST reply actions

Agree about Cain

There are many dents in the wall due to me whipping my remote against it as I saw another Giants 1 Other Team 2 score on the bottom line whenever Cain pitched. If the Giants could run their team like it was 2008 instead of 1998 Cain and Lincecum could be quite a tandem.

I only cared so much because Cain was on my fantasy team, but still.

by TheHawk5 on Feb 6, 2008 2:56 PM CST up reply actions

agreed.

i had cain and lincecum.

by WUSTLCubsFan on Feb 6, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions

Juan Pierre

OK, he's an obvious medal winner in the category of worst defensive outfielders in baseball, and even worse with his throwing arm. But let's give the man his props offensively. A man with as many 200-hit seasons, and as many career stolen bases as he has is not a bad all-around player. Yes, I know that in his one season with the Cubs all of his hits were completely meaningless because he did not start playing until the Cubs were out of the race. I know that. But the man can hit. We have to give him that.

"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004

by ctcoff99 on Feb 5, 2008 10:40 PM CST reply actions

Sigh.

You have it exactly backwards. He's got decent range for a center fielder - probably the hardest outfield position there is. Okay, so his arm sucks, but his range compensates for it. He's probably a mild plus on defense.

It's his offense that is wildly attrocious. The man makes outs. Lots and lots of outs. He is a prodigious out maker, an out machine. He will get out. Again and again and again and again. Juan Pierre makes outs.

What Juan Pierre does not do is hit for extra bases. Or take walks. Or do any of the things that you can do to actually be useful to a team offensively.

Let's take a look at 2004, his absolute best season as a hitter. He had 221 hits, leading the league. But he was second in outs, with an astounding 507. And do you know how many extra bases he took on a hit? 55! And his stolen base percentage was only a mediocre 65%. Over the course of an entire season he was only worth about 3.5 runs more than teammate Jeff Conine, and he needed 169 additional plate appearances to do it.

And this was Juan Pierre's career year. This is the one year he finally hit above the league average. This was his one shining moment in a career full of suck. And he still couldn't muster an OPS+ higher than Matt Murton's career line.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Feb 6, 2008 1:01 AM CST up reply actions

He also set a record in 2006 with the Cubs.

That was the first 200-hit season in major league history in which the hitter did not hit .300 or better. And he missed it by a lot, hitting .292. There's more proof of how worthless all those hits were.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Feb 6, 2008 4:05 AM CST up reply actions

Ass Clown

If Perry says these guys suck, then all of them will be all-stars this year. He's an idiot.

"You rub snot on the ball?" Ricky Vaughn

by McRipper on Feb 6, 2008 10:21 AM CST reply actions

Could you be a little more...

...constructive with your criticism?

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 6, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions

I have to hand it to you here...

not many people are going to re-cog-a-nize these guys. Nice use of pop culture reference.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Feb 6, 2008 3:17 PM CST up reply actions

re: I have to hand it to you here...

Hey, thanks! (For anyone interested, click here.) And I realized after posting that I was a little off on the lyric. It's "Be more constructive with your feedback." Anyway...

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Feb 6, 2008 3:25 PM CST up reply actions