Open Thread: Cubs vs. Athletics, Tuesday 3/11, 3:05 CT

Lineup

With the exception of Fuld, our first look at the opening day lineup.

by 23Ryno on Mar 11, 2008 12:47 PM CDT reply actions

My thought exactly.

Though, I would prefer to see Dome 2nd, and Theriot dropped to 7th or 8th.

Also, I'd expect to see Soto hitting ahead of DeRosa on occasion.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions

At least with this lineup...

Fukudome and Lee are in front of Ramirez.

But I agree - unless Theriot really boosts his OBP, he shouldn't be batting second.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Theriot in the two hole, I know he's not your tipical two hitter, b/c of his average and obp, but he handles the bat fairly well. Also gives you speed at the top. Biggest cons for me is more at-bats for theriot and less protection for soriano

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions

I would agree

I have always thought the two hole is a perfect spot for the unselfish slap hitter. The one that can drive the ball to the right side to advance a runner.

Use their good eye to make contact on a hit and run. I agree with Theriot there. He is that type of hitter. His overall weaknesses can be hidden a little better in the two slot.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Mar 11, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions

I

totally agree

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Mar 11, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions

Knowing how to take a walk

Will also advance a runner (on first base, at least). Also means that the bases will be primed for the sluggers in the lineup.

Speed is also great...if it translates into an ability to stretch singles into doubles, instead of being thrown out before your big hitters get XBHs.

by berselius on Mar 11, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions

To expand on the

speed factor. Lead off man reached first. Second hitter tries to advance runner to second by giving himself up. He fails and causes force at second. You would still have speed at first for a potential swipe of second.

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Mar 11, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions

That is true but

If the second batter were a decent enough hitter, then he wouldn't need to lay the bunt down in the first place. Unless you have crazy (think Rickey Henderson or Willie Mays Hays) speed and can beat the throw to first a good percentage of the time, bunting is a poor strategy. If you're a major league hitter, you should have enough ability to move the runner over and not get out without relying on a throwing error to keep you in the game.

I can see bunting as a better strategy if you are slumping...but then you shouldn't be hitting in front of your big bats anyway.

by berselius on Mar 11, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions

That's good in theory

but that's a bit extreme. Basically what you are saying is that if there is a runner on 1st, the next batter should be able to move him over without making an out? Considering baseball is a sport where failing 7 out of 10 times is considered great, I don't think that's gonna happen often.

"Oh well, there's always next year!!!" Every Cub fan

by McRipper on Mar 11, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm not saying that

he should be able to do it without making an out. What I am saying is that his ability to put the ball in play (or walk, or strikeout) should have a much lower out percentage than merely bunting. I'm not saying speed is a bad thing - it improves your chances here of not getting a DP if you don't find a hole in the infield.

On average, 70% of the balls put into play are outs. I don't know off the top of my head, but I would expect the out percentage is much higher for outs.

by berselius on Mar 11, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions

whoops

I meant the out percentage is certainly much higher for bunts

by berselius on Mar 11, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions

probably

but I bet the percentage of time the runner moves from 1st to 2nd is greater when bunting then when swinging, which is what you are trying to do.

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions

Re: probably

Not to beat this one to death, but what we are really trying to do is score runs. And I would bet that the run expectancy for laying down a bunt with a runner on first no outs is lower than run expectancy for swinging away in the same situation. I think it would be just as important to have someone in the two hole who gets bunts down consistently as someone with speed. That gives you more options if the hitter falls behind in the count early and your chances of getting a base hit drop. All that said, I'm not thrilled with Theriot in the two hole, but he's a lot better than some of the dead weight we've seen there in the past.

by Born Again Cubs Fan on Mar 11, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions

You are correct

(at least from 1977-1992) - see here: http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/07/empirical_analy_1.php

I'm the guy in the blue under armour shirt

by joeschmitt on Mar 11, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions

sacrifice bunting costs runs

especially at the top of the lineup. See here - http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/07/empirical_analy_1.php

please no bunting by our 2-hole hitter regardless of whether it is theriot or dome. runner on 1st, no outs is a way better situation than runner on 2nd, 1 out. an out is far more valuable than a single base.

I'm the guy in the blue under armour shirt

by joeschmitt on Mar 11, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions

ugh...

i really hope not.

Joe Sheehan had a great "unfiltered" about lineup construction and specifically this case how Lou could end up costing the Cubs 2-3 wins by utilizing a lineup like this

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions

That's the first thing I thought, too

"It's that wonderul relief that comes when they stop hitting you in the head with a hammer."

by lostinthevines on Mar 11, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions

My thoughts exactly

Good point, move Dome to 2nd, drop Theriot down, and insert Pie, and we are ready to rock.

by 23Ryno on Mar 11, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions

agreed.

"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will

by eswan9 on Mar 11, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Almost opening day lineup

and of course they wait for a nontelevised game. I guess thats how spring goes.

Only twenty days.

Big Z's no hitter vs Astros coming soon, April 6.

by Me and Lou WS 07 on Mar 11, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions

Brian Roberts

If the Cubs acquire Roberts, where will Soriano bat and will he be happy?

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Mar 11, 2008 1:00 PM CDT reply actions

I'd guess either #1 or #5...

Either they'd go with:
Soriano
Roberts
Lee
Ramirez
Fukudome
Soto
Theriot
Pie

or they'd go with:
Roberts
Fukudome
Lee
Ramirez
Soriano
Soto
Theriot
Pie

Just a guess, though.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions

And I'd probably lean toward #1...

Of those two, I'd expect Lou to choose the first option, putting Roberts 2nd, Fukudome 5th, and Pie 8th. Thus completely splitting up the lefties.

I don't know if I think that's the best approach, but that's what I'd think Lou would do.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions

lineup number 2

please!!! please!!!!!!

it makes too much sense....

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Not to start this discussion again

but it will not be #2 where you have 6 RH'ers in a row. It is clear that Piniella likes to flip-flip the lefties and righties.

Fukudome and Roberts (if acquired) will not bat back to back.

by rlpete on Mar 11, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions

oops 5 in a row

need that edit function.

by rlpete on Mar 11, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions

i don't disagree with you

my ideal lineup would actually only have 4 RH's in a row... but that wouldn't happen either (flip-flopping Pie and Theriot)

i know its not likely to happen... but its what i'm still rooting for anyway

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions

I like #2 as well...

that would be a killer lineup! Soriano would be way more productive hitting 5th...his skill set suites that spot way better than leading off.

All we are saying...is give Pie a chance.

by Hugest Canadian Cubs Fan on Mar 11, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Lineup problems.

There is no way the Cubs can stack Soriano, Fukudome, Lee, Ramirez in the one thru four of the lineup card. Not when that results in a five thru eight of Soto, DeRosa, Theriot, Pie. Sorry, but you can't ask Soto to be the #5 hitter at this stage. And DeRosa is not ideally suited for that role either. To say nothing of that fact that I hate Theriot and Pie stacked together like that.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:03 PM CDT reply actions

is there really something wrong

with getting your best hitters the most plate appearances?

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Of course not

But not at the expense of having a too vulnerable 5 thru 8 of the lineup. Almost by default the Cubs need to shove Theriot into the 2 hole, thereby enabling one of the "big 4" to bat in the 5 hole and allowing Soto and DeRosa to move down where they are best suited.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions

That doesn't actually make sense...

All you are doing by putting Theriot in the #2 spot is reducing the number of times Lee and Ramirez bat with runners in scoring position.

The fact that the bottom four is weaker doesn't mean you should move them down. The point is to get your best hitters the most at bats in the most productive situations possible so as to maximize run production. Giving the least productive regular on the team the second most AB doesn't do that.

You're getting too caught up in stereotypes. The #1 and #2 hitters don't need to be little fast scrappy guys. They need to get on base. Actually, that's the goal of the entire lineup - to get on base and avoid outs. You want your best OBP guys to get the most AB.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Disagree

...and it would seem Lou Piniella is on my side of the fence on this one.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

that's a tremendous argument

Lou Pineilla also started Jason Kendall over Geovanny Soto the majority of the time

and that one wasn't the right choice at the time either

Lou isn't infallible

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions

BLASAMY

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Mar 11, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions

I hate your Spelling

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions

TOO CHAY

"You can't take life to seriously, you don't get out of it alive"

by wild bill on Mar 11, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions

Great comeback..

Terry Francona is on my side. He likes having his big OBP guys up front, and doesn't mind a weaker #5 hitter to protect his Ramirez.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions

So you'd rather give Theriot...

30-40 more AB per season in the #2 spot, rather than reducing his number of AB? Considering that Theriot was our least productive regular player last year, I think that's a terrible idea.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Over-simplication...once again

You can't ask rookie Geovany Soto to step in the shoes as the 5 hitter and be expected to provide lineup protection to Aramis Ramirez at cleanup. That is recipe for disappointment.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions

lineup protection

is a myth...

and on top of that if we have more guys on base in front of Aramis then we have more chances in which he can't be pitched around

putting a guy with a .326 OBP in the 2 hole does not help with getting men on base in front of him

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Well said...

at least somebody (and I suspect many) gets it.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions

I guess I'm clueless

After all, I'm just an idiot. I played baseball through my junior year and college, yet don't have the foggiest damn clue when it comes to how to construct a lineup given the pieces at hand. Funny thing is, the manager of the Chicago Cubs happens to agree with my thinking. Or vice versa.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Yup, I think you're clueless...

Just like Ronny Cedeno, who by the way happens to play professional baseball. I'll trust almost anybody's baseball theories above his. You've tried to use that argument before. It's illogical and invalid. The fact that you might or might not have athletic prowess doesn't mean you have a good understanding of good baseball strategy.

Leo Mazzone and Dave Duncan were terrible pro baseball players. They are fantastic pitching coaches. Athletic prowess doesn't correlate to good sense.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions

No, no, no....

It's not about "athletic prowess." Or suggestion that just because I was fortunate enough to play college ball that I'm smarter than anybody else. But yeah, I'd like to think the fact that I invested a lot of my life to playing organized baseball has afforded me a quality understanding of what works on a baseball field.

It's a statement of the brilliantly obvious to say 1 thru 4 of the lineup card should include Soriano, Kosuke, Lee, Ramirez. But what that statement fails to take into account is the other four player names that round out Piniella's lineup card. You need a proven quality RBI bat in that 5 hole. No ifs ands or buts.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions

baseball men

for many years have been living through this same philosophy and for many years they too were wrong with some things

like the way they thought about batting average vs. on-base percentage, etc.

the point is the way you've been taught and most of us have been taught that baseball is supposed to be played, isn't always the BEST way. Mathematical analysis has attempted to fill in the blanks on these things and dispell some myths that have been perpetuated simply because people always did it this way

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Again....

It's one thing to have solid, proven commodities to turn to in the 5 thru 8 spots in the lineup. Yes, in a perfect world it would be great to have Soriano, Lee, Kosuke and Ramirez the 1 thru 4.

Unfortunately, that doesn't describe the situation with the Cubs. As much as I love DeRosa he is not a good option for the 5 hole. And putting Soto in that role is way too tall of an order. Maybe someday he is ready to assume the mantle of hitting 5, but not now. Especially not on a ballclub that likes to think it is a playoff team. And Theriot and Pie stacked together in the 7 and 8 hole is vulnerable.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions

And again...

Moving a terrible hitter up to the #2 spot just to bump the good part of the lineup down doesn't fix the problem of having four weak hitters in the lineup. It just magnifies the problem by giving more AB to the worst hitter in the lineup and fewer quality AB to Lee, Ramirez, and Fukudome.

And even though I don't buy into the "protection" argument, your approach doesn't solve that problem either. You still don't have protection for Ramirez. So now Ramirez is getting fewer AB with fewer runners on base in front of him with still no better protection.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions

LSA

This is just a matter of shuffling your lousier hitters. Putting the best guys at the top of your lineup means that they can play their game (walks, slugging), and the lousier players can do theirs (steals, hit-and-runs, etc). In-game strategies depend on your personnel, so why not cluster the guys where you use a similar strategy together? Seeding the lineup with your less talented players hamstrings everyone.

by berselius on Mar 11, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions

And I disagree...

you don't need an Aramis Ramirez level of player in the #5 spot. Look at the Red Sox. Their #6-9 hitters were Jason Varitek, JD Drew, CoCo Crisp, and Julio Lugo. That's pretty terrible. Francona didn't worry about the fact that his bottom half of the order stunk. Why? Because he knew he'd get tons of productivity from the top half.

The only difference is that he had five good hitters and four mediocre/poor hitters. We have four and four. Moving Theriot up doesn't get rid of the problem of having four mediocre/bad hitters - it magnifies it by giving Theriot more AB.

As for the rest of your post - I've devoted much of my life to playing as well as studying baseball, just like you. The fact that I didn't play after high school doesn't mean I didn't learn more about the game. If anything, I think I've learned more about how the game should be played strategically since I stopped playing, because I got out of the rut of doing everything the old-fashioned way.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree...

...very few teams are strong when you get past the 6th spot in the lineup.

If you look at all the teams that are tops in runs scored, they all are strong in regards to OBP at the top of the order, and then they have a 3, 4, 5 group that can slug and drive those guys in. Over the course of a game, there is usually going to one inning, where these types of teams put up a crooked number, because of how the lineup is stacked.

The Cubs have had the 3, 4, 5 part of the equation for the last several years. What they have missed since 03 (Lofton and Gruds) was the solid one-two combo to give those guys opportunties to put up big RBI numbers.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 11, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions

What makes the best lineups the best...

Is that they all have high OBP and high OPS guys in the top 5 (or more spots). What makes them the most efficient is that they actually play their highest OBP/OPS guys at the top half of the order and the worst OBP/OPS guys at the bottom half of the order.

Moving Theriot to the #2 spot makes our offense less efficient. Sure, it makes the middle of our lineup more similar to the good offenses. But it doesn't make the top of the lineup more like the good offenses. And it makes our offense slightly worse overall.

Ultimately, the problem is that, any way you look at it, we have five mediocre/bad hitters in the lineup. Moving guys around doesn't fix that fact. It may make the middle/bottom of the order slightly more productive, but it'll make the top of the order less productive. At best, it evens out. But given that it'd mean giving more AB to Theriot and fewer AB to Fukudome/Lee/Ramirez, it actually is going to make the team worse.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions

We shall agree to disagree

This is a case of sabermetrics run amok. And before you go labeling me stupid, I actually embrace a lot of what statistical analysis tells us about winning baseball games. But alas, baseball is not played by flipping pages in the Bill James bible or on some computer screen. The job of a manager is to maximize what has been given him. In the case of the envisioned Cub lineup, I strongly agree with Lou Piniella on things. WIth the exception of where to bat Derrek Lee, who I personally would shove in either the 2 hole or 5 hole.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions

You're right, we disagree...

You THINK this is sabermetrics run amok.

I THINK this is sabermetrics pointing out facts that baseball people are slowly beginning to realize.

Unfortunately, neither of us can be proven right, as we can't compare the two scenarios (don't have two identical teams playing identical schedules each with one of the approaches).

For the record, I've never called you stupid (nor would I do so). I sarcastically agreed with you saying you were clueless. Mostly, I just think you are one of many who cling to the old ways rather than considering the possibility that the numbers may be right in this case.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't cling to the old ways

Give me an overall better offensive quartet than Soto, DeRosa, Theriot, Pie and then I will agree with you one million percent with Soriano, Kosuke, Lee, Ramirez as the 1 thru 4 guys in the lineup.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Well then we agree on the problem...

But I don't think your solution actually makes the offense more efficient. It just gives fewer AB to the good hitters and fewer of those AB will be with runners on base. That actually makes the lineup worse, in my view.

I agree that the problem is that we have four mediocre/bad hitters in the lineup, not counting the pitcher. But I don't think that moving one of the bad (in fact, quite possibly the worst) hitters up makes things better.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions

I beg to differ

Drew not a good player? His skill set and Fuku's are basically the same. Drew's issues are more due to the fact that he can't stay healthy and produce relative to his big salary.

by berselius on Mar 11, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Wasn't very good last year...

talented player, but compare his OPS to that of DeRosa/Murton.

Historically, Drew has been a fantastic player. High OBP, good power. His problem has been attitude and injury. But last year, he was mediocre.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions

And as has been said elsewhere...

Managers aren't infallible. The fact that Piniella might (or might not) agree with you doesn't make you any more right. Francona and Torre seem to prefer having their best OBP guys bat first and don't mind having a weaker bottom of the order. They seem to agree with me. I guess those guys are clueless, huh?

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Lineups...

...are all about making life as miserable for the pitcher as possible. Making him work, putting him in the stretch, threatening him with the stolen base, etc. all at the right time to cash in with crooked numbers.

Which is why I would advocate either of these lineups:

If the Cubs get Roberts:

Roberts
Fukudome
Lee
Ramirez
Soriano
Soto
Theriot
Pie

If they don't get Roberts:

Soriano
Fukudome
Lee
Ramirez
DeRosa
Soto
Theriot
Pie

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 11, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions

I guess I agree with you...

Although baseball is largely a game of numbers, it seems that it is a lot more than OPS and OBP and blah blah blah. It's about having good AB's 1-8 (preferably nine, but with Hill/Lilly/Demp/Lieber it's tough). Obviously, you want to maximize scoring opportunities but lineup balance seems to mean something to Piniella.

There's an argument for either side here, BUT, if you are going to argue percentages, then we can't have a discussion about the 2 slot without addressing the 1 slot. So that's where balance comes in. Soriano likes to hit first, so you hit him first because that maximizes his potential (flawed logic possibly, but he's making 1/10th of a billion dollars). What else? Well if you want to balance things, you keep players in comfortable situations, which may mean batting a Theriot 2nd and a Soto 6th/7th. I think statistics are a little insignificant when your leadoff is your 2nd leading HR guy... In my opinion, Piniella is trying to maximize the different approaches of his batters to make sure 1-8 is the toughest lineup to get through. We'll see if it works!

by bp on Mar 11, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

If Leiber can lay down a bunt

he's batting better than most of our pitchers.

I hope there were a few fundamentals classes on bunting with our pitchers...

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions

You two are right on

Oh, please please give us the highest OBP in the top two lineup slots.

by blackhawk24 on Mar 11, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Do you really think...

...protection in the lineup is a myth?

In some cases, it may be overated, but if a pitcher has Fukudome on 1st and Lee at the plate, he will definately be more prone to pitch around Lee if the 4 hitter was DeRosa vs Ramirez.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 11, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions

so many studies

have been done to show this, this is a decent example...

http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2004/09/

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions

You're right in some aspects...

...but it's not as pronounced of an effect as you might think. Giving a hitter lineup protection does decrease his walks a bit, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Walks aren't a bad outcome. And there isn't much of a countervailing impact - hits and bases gained on hits don't improve near as much as walks decline.

Lineup construction is one of those areas in baseball where you can end up outthinking yourself very quickly; it's not enough to worry about things like lineup balance and lineup protection, you also have to assign costs and benefits to those sort of things. Otherwise you're just tiliting at windmills.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 11, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Let me ask you a question...

do you see any upside for Theriot, particulalrly with regards to OBP? And if his OBP were to climb to say.... .340 to .350, would this remove some of your concerns about him hitting at that spot?

by Damen Jackson on Mar 11, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions

yes and no

yes there is upside in Theriot's OBP, specifically since he had some poor luck on his Singles % last year. I can see him in the .335-.345 OBP range

does that change my opinion of where he should bat? No it doesn't.

Again Joe Sheehan's article on BP does a perfect job explaining this

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7201

but basically speed is a more valuable tool at the BOTTOM of the lineup as opposed to in front of power hitters. In front of power hitters you want guys that get on base the most, because the power hitters often can advance the runners the most bases on their own (through extra base hits)

at the bottom of the lineup where you have weaker hitters, you'd ideally want more speed. Speed can "steal" bases either through SBs or through baserunning on hits and thus increases your chance of scoring with weaker hitters up

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 11, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

thanks for your read on this, and the article seems interesting enough. I do have some questions about how those lineup compositions impact managerial flexibility in later innings of games. Less fleet-footed players would suggest some feast or famine slugging strategies in close ballgames, as they will likely see more at-bats. Less hit and run, less steals. That sort of thing. Not that I disagree, but I can see what it runs contrary to what managers actually do.

by Damen Jackson on Mar 11, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Makes sense...

If Soriano wasn't a headcase about batting leadoff, I think he'd make perfect sense in the #5 spot (assuming we had good OBP guys to bat #1 and #2 in front of Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano. Batting him there would minimize the concern about his mediocre OBP, potentially maximize his power value, and maximize the value of his stolen bases, getting him in scoring position in front of the weaker hitters to generate more run producing opportunities for them.

That said, I don't think there's any chance of this happening. He has it too ingrained that he can only hit leadoff, and perhaps more importantly, I think Lou is convinced that Soriano can't get the job done from any other spot as well.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Where did I ask that of Soto?

If you move Theriot to 7th, that bumps everyone else up one spot. that'd put Soto 6th and DeRosa 5th. DeRosa is adequate there.

Also, Ramirez doesn't need protection. Look at what he's done the last few years without protection.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

I think it's time...

you stopped talking about lineups, and posted the one you think we should be using.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions

This is what I'd like to see...

Soriano
Fukudome
DLee
ARam
DeRosa
Soto
Pie
Theriot
Pitcher

Some people worry too much about the bottom of the order. The question I'd ask them is: What team doesn't have weaknesses there?

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 1:30 PM CDT reply actions

yep

I'd like to see that myself.

Is it possible that Lou has moved things around a bit because Fuld, who is batting somewhere around .130, is in the game instead of Pie, who is doing much better?

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree.

In fact, at some point, you might even want to hit Soto fifth in that lineup.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions

re: I agree.

I'd love to -- and I hope Lou will feel the same way at some point this season.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions

Lineup

I love how people think they can makeup a lineup by the stats given to them by mlb.com (Avg, OBP, ect.), but there are 100 more stats to look at that most people don't look at or can't because they are not available on most web sites. Show me something like success rate of moving runners over or batting average when ball is hit in play. These are just a few of things to look at. Theriot might show up on some charts as a good 2 hitter that we might not know about. A team needs way more power in the 7th hole then Theriot 3 jacks a year.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Mar 11, 2008 1:36 PM CDT reply actions

re: Lineup

Do teams typically look for power in the seven hole? Seriously asking.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions

If you can get power...

...in the seven hole, you will have pretty darn good lineup.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 11, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions

I think

the average is like 12 homers a year from that spot. Does anyone really know for sure because I am just guessing it's around 12

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Mar 11, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Well...

Don't fixate on the "power." Fixate instead on the run production value. Mark DeRosa is great example of a textbook 7 hitter in a lineup that is otherwise in good shape.

by MDBNIU on Mar 11, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions

DeRosa

works for me in the 7 hole, but not the 5th.

PC load letter, what the f*** does that mean?

by cubfaninSTL on Mar 11, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

The average is 12 in the NL...

...according to B-Ref's splits page. I don't think there's any real value in knowing that, though.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 11, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Amen.

I completely agree. It's about your approach to the plate in your specific role in the batting order and how well you execute that. That doesn't mean Lou is 100% correct, but that's the feel he has on this lineup right now with Dome in the 3 slot and Soriano leadoff (which is rediculous but whatchya goin' do?).

by bp on Mar 11, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Batting average on balls in play...

...is available on Fangraphs or Baseball Reference, if you know where to look for it. I think you can find success rate at moving runners over on B-Ref, too. If not, the play by play data is available on Retrosheet.org, if you're willing to learn what's essentially computer programming to figure it out.

Here's the thing, though. Batting average on balls in play isn't very meaningful on its own; BABIP tends to reflect a lot of luck, moreso than standard batting average - it's batting average without the Three True Outcomes, which batters have much more control over than the outcomes of balls in play.

The two factors that have the most impact on BABIP - line drive rate and speed - we can measure in other ways. It's useful as a diagnostic, not a predictor or a measure of talent level.

OBP and SLG are what I like to call the "good enough" stats, because most of the time they're good enough to get you where you need to go. They model team run scoring very well, and they predict team run scoring very well.

Can you get more accurate? Yes. Can you incorporate other things, like baserunning, into your analysis? Sure. But you're really fighting over the last 5% at that point. Again - you can really talk yourself into overthinking things.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 11, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Question?

You seem to be very knowledgeable in this stuff, what do you think is the most important stat to determine a hitter's productivity? This is off the wall but I was just curious.

"Oh well, there's always next year!!!" Every Cub fan

by McRipper on Mar 11, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions

About any derivative of linear weights...

...seems to work fine for me; currently I'm using Tom Tango's wOBA a lot because it means I can crib an awful lot of useful metrics and formulas from him, but it's not obviously superior to using something like Batting Runs or ERP, other than how it's measured.

Basically, linear weights works by assigning run values to each of the measurable events, and giving batters a credit (or a debit) for their contributions at the plate.

Here are some generic linear weights:

Single = .47
Double = .78
Triple = 1.09
Homerun = 1.40
Stolen Base = .30
Walk = .33
Hit by Pitch = .33

You also have negative linear weights values for making outs.

I'm probably not explaining this as well as I should; one of these days I need to get around to writing an article about this.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 11, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions

Now that I remembered where I was going...

...I'll go ahead and put a little capper on this, at least for now.

The great thing about using Linear Weights is that you can directly relate a hitter's production to runs, and thus to wins, in a way that you can compare them not only with other hitters, but compare their offensive production to their defensive production.

Using zone rating metrics, we can do a pretty good job of figuring out how many runs a fielder is worth. Add them together and voila!

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 11, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Many moons ago...

...when I was playing in college, my coach (Ron Polk) insituted a rating system in regards to a players hitting ability. Each time a player put a ball in play, the batted ball was given a rating between 1 and 6. A 6 was either a homerun or a hard hit line drive. A 1 would either be a pop up or a little dribbler and everything in between was a 2 thru 5.

This system was independent of whether a line drive was a hit or an out, and was designed to determine the skills a player had in regards to putting the ball in play with authority. Strikeouts and walks were also factored into this seperately, to come up with a total value number for each player (I can't recall the value given walks and strikeouts).

I recall Palmeiro always being at least a half point above anyone else in these rankings (even Will Clark), and it seemed to be a pretty decent tool in evaluating at least some of a hitters ability.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 11, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions

We'll see what happens...

We have no idea how Pie and Soto will play out being regulars. For all we know, Pie could be hitting .300 by June and be in the #5 hole. Soto could struggle, or he could leave off how he ended last year. Even though Lou says he would like to set a lineup and stick with it... I'm sure there will still be some shuffling going on.

"The one that invent the light tried 2,000 times and finally he did it, we have light...I don't want to spend 2,000 times to win Opening Day" Carlos Zambrano

by CubsBullsBears on Mar 11, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions

85 comments

and the game hasnt even started. If only you made $ per post AL, then you may be able to afford one of the auctioned seats.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 11, 2008 2:44 PM CDT reply actions

Anyway - why would Al

even want those seats?

They're too close!

Better to sit 400' from Home plate. ;)

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 11, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Auction seats..

Has anyone placed a bid on any auction seats? I am thinking of bidding for 2 seats, maybe around $50,000.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Mar 11, 2008 2:50 PM CDT reply actions

Not me

Just checked my bank account and I was right, I dont have 50,000 in it.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 11, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't know if you were being facetious or not

but anyone who spends $50,000 on a ticket to a baseball game....well, I will not judge, but there's plenty of charities out there who could put $50,000 to good use.

I can only begin to fathom if someone paid $50,000 on a ticket to a World Series at Wrigley, but only then.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 11, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions

It's not $50,000 for one game.

That would be for the whole season.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions

For a season? oh.

Well in that case, maybe I'll bid $51,000!!!

It's gonna take more than that though for 2 seats.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 11, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Defentely facetious

Why would I want to be joking or jesting often inappropriately?

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 11, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions

Why

are these seats so expensive?

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions

Because...

... they want a minimum of (approximately) $200 a game. If they didn't have that, people would be buying these and flipping them, or brokers would buy them all.

At $200+ per game, they are too expensive to scalp.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Nevermind

I did not realize they were season tickets.

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Auction...

I am really am thinking of bidding. If they go to the WS, I will have my tickets! It will be a birthday present to myself. Since I live in Boston, I will probably donate most of the games to a Children's Hospital in Chicago. Besides, I can use the tax write-off.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Mar 11, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions

Hey, feel free...

...to donate a game or two to me!

I promise to leave my blinking, neon Cubs' sign at home.

by DonGerard on Mar 11, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions

If you can afford it

for a "real" fan, they are unequivically much better than purchasing a Suite, imo, if you can get 4 seats.

What client, friend, or family member could ever dream of an experience so amazing multiplied by 81 games and the Playoffs.

Seats like those would close any corporate deal, for sure.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 11, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Gameday Audio users...

...the link appears to be working. Sounds like we're going to be treated to Oakland announcers, as I'm enjoying some Bay Area radio spots at the moment.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 2:53 PM CDT reply actions

The All-You-Can-Eat promotion is nuts!

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/oak/ticketing/ayce_seats.jsp

You can't quiet THE RIOT (riotshirts.com)

by TipsyMcStagger on Mar 11, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

A's announcer just said...

..."Koez-may" Fukudome is batting third and playing right field for the Cubs.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:06 PM CDT reply actions

Z

Let's Go Big 'Un

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:07 PM CDT reply actions

Nice recovery by Soriano.

Ball off the heel of his glove, he then threw Buck out at third.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:10 PM CDT reply actions

Don't

Test his arm... even when he's rusty.

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:10 PM CDT reply actions

So who is...

our honorary play-by-play man today?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 3:11 PM CDT reply actions

OK

Ah, heck. You do it. I'll shut up. Go Cubs.

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

I can't...

I don't have the audio...I was actually asking who is going to do it today for the rest of us. Please be my guest if you want to do it, we'd really appreciate it.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Fuld

Defense. No Offense. Oh well.

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:12 PM CDT reply actions

Great diving catch by Fuld to end the 1st.

(And no, I can't do PBP all afternoon)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:12 PM CDT reply actions

PBP

Al, can you do pla....
oh never mind!

by Gucci on Mar 11, 2008 3:14 PM CDT reply actions

Was the error on Fonzi..

because he misplayed it? Or was is a tough ball to get to? Just wondering.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 3:16 PM CDT reply actions

re: Was the error on Fonzi..

Sounded like he just misplayed it -- the whole "high sky" thing. My question is: Does Soriano still get credited with an assist, even though he dropped the fly ball?

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes.

Pulling a Rodman.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 11, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions

HAHA!

LOL!

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 11, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

Sori

line drive single on a well hit ball.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

DLee

How do people feel about DLee's slow ST start?

by Gucci on Mar 11, 2008 3:18 PM CDT reply actions

Keyword is ST.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 11, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions

Not terribly worried...

lots of players struggle in spring training. Unless he's injured, he'll be fine. And there's been no indication that he's hurt.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Conversely...

... let's all remember Nomar's 2005 ST, where he was hitting everything in sight... then he started the season sucking, and then got hurt.

Aramis Ramirez also had a sizzling-hot ST last year, and then struggled when the season started.

What we really need this year is the warmest April in Chicago history.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Weather Question

I'll settle for the snow being gone by opening day :)

I do have a weather related question (I hope its not a dumb one.) Do teams that play in warmer areas in April tend to get off starts?

by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 11, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Fonz

thrown out trying to steal 2nd. 3-0 to The Riot. One out.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:19 PM CDT reply actions

Just got on...

So this UGH! is a little late, but its frustrating to hear Sori get thrown out on 3-0 and Riot walk on the next pitch. UGH! Read Moneyball, Fonzi! UGH!

"I got a PBS mind in an MTV world"

by The Ryno and I Know on Mar 11, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions

Good

to see soriano attempting the steal, even if he was thrown out

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 3:19 PM CDT reply actions

Just thinking that, too.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 11, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions

4 pitch walk to Riot.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:20 PM CDT reply actions

Soriano thrown out attempting to steal 2nd

by John Q Freejazz on Mar 11, 2008 3:20 PM CDT reply actions

What about

just "Coltrane"? He was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan.

Wait 'til next year. And the next. And the Next. And the next after that too.

by TheEman on Mar 11, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Ugh.

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:20 PM CDT reply actions

he's just

getting mentally ready for an mvp season.

by xene on Mar 11, 2008 3:20 PM CDT reply actions

Kos-may

According to the A's broadcasters

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:21 PM CDT reply actions

Wonder of Wonders!!!

My gameday seems to be showing the pitches AND is keeping up with the play-by-play!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 3:21 PM CDT reply actions

re: Wonder of Wonders!!!

Hey, mine too!

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Fuku K's. 2 out for D. Lee. Riot on first.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:21 PM CDT reply actions

D Lee groundout 5-3. End's the inning.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:22 PM CDT reply actions

Jack Cust leads off for the A's. Crosby and Sweeny

to follow.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:24 PM CDT reply actions

Cust HR. 1-0 A's.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:25 PM CDT reply actions

Sounds like Z tried to sneek a FB by him.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:26 PM CDT reply actions

It was a 3-1 pitch...

Carlos didn't give in...and Cust won the battle. It happens.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions

I see.

Didn't realize it was 3-1. Good battle between Cust and Z then, power on power.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Z comes back and K's Crosby on a slider.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:27 PM CDT reply actions

Us

We have more representation.

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:27 PM CDT reply actions

I would let Ward compete for a spot in the lineup.

...I'm looking at you, DLEE.

by Jerry Mumphrey on Mar 11, 2008 3:28 PM CDT reply actions

i hope

you're kidding.

by xene on Mar 11, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions

Mein Gott

No.

"Eamus Catuli"--Marcus Tullius Cicero.

by 20yearsunder on Mar 11, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Sweeny GO. 4-3. Suzuki(sp) up.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:28 PM CDT reply actions

2 out single for Suzuki.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:30 PM CDT reply actions

Ground out to D. Lee to end the inning.

Headed to bottom of the 2nd. 1-0 A's.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:33 PM CDT reply actions

Play-by-play for today's game

Cubs Play-by-Play for today's game, 1st Inning

Cubs Play-by-Play for today's game, 2nd Inning

Click on NEXT INNING to proceed to the next inning. Quick to update, minimal images to load.

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 3:33 PM CDT reply actions

Flachimesa

That's great. Do you mind posting after each inning? I have to run to a meeting.

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions

Press F5 key to refresh the page

I'm listening while I work.

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions

re: Play-by-play for today's game

Wow, this is pretty cool. Did you just find it or have you been using it for a while?

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Thanks!!

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions

This is the link I've been using to find the games

MLB Scores

To get started, click on the link on the far right side.

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Cool, thanks...

...can't have too many options for following the game.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Those links...

... are the ones they use for mobile phones and PDA's. Nicely done.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on Mar 11, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Yep

I've just added a bookmark on my phone. Thanks.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Mar 11, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Play-by-play for today's game

That is really cool!!!! Thanks

by Madison Cub Fan on Mar 11, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm so happy for this guy

He's getting emails left and right. Listen closely if you're able to! You can hear the subtle beeps from Outlook...

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Mar 11, 2008 3:45 PM CDT reply actions

re: I'm so happy for this guy

I know! I keep hearing the beeps and thinking it's my e-mail.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions

Ha Ha!

I've got my headphones on at work and thought it was my Outlook at first! LOL!

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions

OK, which one of you is "Marty"? LOL!!

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Alright...

who on the board told him about the sounds? Haha it's almost funny him explaining it.

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Mar 11, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm a little concerned about

Soto at the plate lately. He seems to be really struggling his last three games and striking out a bunch. I know its just a few games and it's just spring training, but I hope he gets it going soon because I'm expecting some decent offense out of him this year.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 11, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions

I mentioned Sunday that Soto's...

...swing looked tight and forced and not fluid. Turns out that was the game that Lou told him he'd like to see Soto go the other way more. I think that might me what's going on with Soto lately. He's trying to go the other way more, which really isn't what he's used to doing since he's pretty much a pull hitter, which is why he has looked so uncomftorable at the plate.

I don't have too much of a problem with it. Better to work on that now.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 11, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Maybe even better?

This URL seems to have a few more details:

http://wap.mlb.com/scores/game.jsp?gid=2008_03_11_oakmlb_chnmlb_1

"I am a Cubs fan, but I needed an American League team...so as a young girl, I became very interested and enamored of the Yankees." Senator Hillary Clinton

by ExNorthsider on Mar 11, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions

Two things . . .

I can't believe that Gameday seems to be keeping up with the game;
Fuld looks really creepy in his Gameday picture. Like he wants to really hurt the photographer.

by gwood on Mar 11, 2008 3:48 PM CDT reply actions

hahah yeah

I was just thinking the same. He should make that face when hes up to bat, see if it will get him a hit.

by xene on Mar 11, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions

Soriano is a low ball hitter...

and the A's seem to know this.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 3:51 PM CDT reply actions

no picture?

I am actually torn.
Part of me feels a pic would have been hilarious.
Yet, a larger part of me doesn't want to see it!

by Gucci on Mar 11, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions

The A's announcer...

...just mentioned the e-mail thing. Wacky.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:54 PM CDT reply actions

What email thing?

by Gucci on Mar 11, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions

His computer keeps...

...making the Outlook "you've got mail" beep.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions

I'm glad I wasn't the only one

I was going crazy because I am expecting emails for my presentation for class tomorrow

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Mar 11, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I can help him

what's his email? I just figured it out on mine.

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Mar 11, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, I assume that's it for Z...

...and, all things considered, he put up a pretty decent line. Four innings, no walks, three K's, one ER on four hits.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 3:58 PM CDT reply actions

any idea

how efficient he was? I didn't get to watch ever at bat on Gameday, but he seemed to throw a lot of pitches during the ones I watched.

The no walks part is the most important part of that line I think.

by gwood on Mar 11, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions

re: any idea

That's a good question, and I'm not sure. I didn't think to check his pitch count before he disappeared from Gameday.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Not counting foul balls w/ 2 strikes, if any

Top Half Inning 1
B:1 S:2 O:1 - Travis Buck reaches on fielding error by left fielder Alfonso Soriano. Travis Buck out at 3rd, left fielder Alfonso Soriano to third baseman Aramis Ramirez.

B:1 S:1 O:2 - Mark Ellis flies out to left fielder Alfonso Soriano.

B:0 S:1 O:3 - Daric Barton lines out to center fielder Sam Fuld.

Top Half Inning 2
B:3 S:1 O:0 - Jack Cust homers (1) on a fly ball to right center field.

B:0 S:3 O:1 - Bobby Crosby strikes out swinging.

B:1 S:2 O:2 - Ryan Sweeney grounds out, second baseman Mark DeRosa to first baseman Derrek Lee.

B:0 S:2 O:2 - Kurt Suzuki singles on a fly ball to right fielder Kosuke Fukudome.

B:2 S:2 O:3 - Jack Hannahan grounds out to first baseman Derrek Lee.

Top Half Inning 3
B:2 S:3 O:1 - Chris Denorfia strikes out swinging.

B:1 S:1 O:2 - Travis Buck flies out to left fielder Alfonso Soriano.

B:0 S:1 O:2 - Mark Ellis doubles (1) on a fly ball to left fielder Alfonso Soriano.

B:3 S:1 O:3 - Daric Barton flies out to left fielder Alfonso Soriano.

Top Half Inning 4
B:0 S:3 O:1 - Jack Cust called out on strikes.

B:2 S:0 O:2 - Bobby Crosby pops out to third baseman Aramis Ramirez in foul territory.

B:2 S:1 O:2 - Ryan Sweeney singles on a fly ball to right fielder Kosuke Fukudome.

B:1 S:0 O:3 - Kurt Suzuki flies out to right fielder Kosuke Fukudome.

Top Half Inning 5
B:0 S:0 O:0 - Pitcher Change: Kerry Wood replaces Carlos Zambrano, batting 9th.

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions

56

pitches (if i counted right) through 4 innings (not counting 2 strike foul balls). That is 14 pitches per inning, which seems pretty good. During the regular season, that would put him through 7 innings with 98 pitches. Pretty good for the Big Z.

by gwood on Mar 11, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Probably a tad higher than 56...

as we don't know how many (if any) 2-strike foul balls there were. But yeah, not an absurdly high pitch count.

by SouthernCub on Mar 11, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions

did Sweeney just get gunned at

2nd by fuku?

by xene on Mar 11, 2008 3:59 PM CDT reply actions

I don't see where that happened

Cust out on strikes (one out)
Crosby flies out to Ramiriez (two outs)
Sweeny singles (two outs)
Suzuki flies out to Fukudome (three outs)

But that's just what's on GameDay.

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Damn...

...DLee can't buy a hit.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:03 PM CDT reply actions

Woody!

nice inning for Kerry Wood.
single
double play
flyout to LF

by Gucci on Mar 11, 2008 4:11 PM CDT reply actions

did he pitch yesterday?

I can't remember.

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Good for Woody

I don't see how Lou can pick Howry over him, as effective as he's been.

Vote for experience -- Woody for Closer 2008!

by mlf on Mar 11, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Woo hoo!

Here comes the offense!

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:17 PM CDT reply actions

what's happening?

GD is stalled!

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions

re: what's happening?

Soto walked then scored on a Sam Fuld triple. Then Fuld scored on a MeGehee (sp?) single. 2-1 Cubs.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions

I saw!

GameDay just blew all those chunks at once, is all...

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions

Hey!

Fuld hit one -- and it's a TRIPLE! Is that his first RBI?

And then MgGhee (yeah, yeah) sends in Fuld! Cubs lead!

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions

My Gameday says...

Ramirez FO to CF
DeRosa FO to CG
Soto BB
McGeehee single to CF
Soriano K

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions

Whoops...

I missed Fuld's triple in there...sorry.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions

bye bye

3 run homer for Crosby

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:28 PM CDT reply actions

Yup...

...Eyre getting hit hard. 4-2 A's.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions

line drive shot to CF

for a double by Sweeney

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:31 PM CDT reply actions

Gameday and WAP.MLB

both stuck at Crosby

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:33 PM CDT reply actions

Pitching change

Eyre gone

Howry in

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:34 PM CDT reply actions

Lou pulls Eyre...

...two outs, men on first and second. Here comes Howry.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:34 PM CDT reply actions

Did Eyre make an error?

I missed that.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 4:37 PM CDT reply actions

Do these play-by-play guys know

that there's a game going on? This is awful.

by dogcatratcheese on Mar 11, 2008 4:37 PM CDT reply actions

Out of inning

going to the bottom of 6th, 4-2

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:37 PM CDT reply actions

I don't understand why Eyre is still on the team.

Can someone enlighten me? Yes, he's a lefty. So what? Aren't there any other possibilities?

by zevkalman on Mar 11, 2008 4:45 PM CDT reply actions

cotts

pick your poison

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Well, I believe he was signed....

...to a rather substantial contract, for one.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by daver on Mar 11, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

He makes around

3.5-4m per season, and actually had a very good second half era wise. With relief pitchers(espeically lefties) from year to year you never really know what your going to get. So after the way Eyre pitched in the second half, there's nothing wrong with thinking he could bounce back after being a pretty good reliever from 03-06.

Hopefully Pignatiello steps up and gets a spot on the roster, and if Eyre isn't good this year we can always DFA sometime midseason.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 11, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Mid - Season ?

There are no really good reasons to keep Eyre to mid-season and release him.
He started out last year stinking up the joint. We do not need a repeat of that.
Eyre does not make the kind of dollars that the Cubs cannot eat. Get rid of him before the season starts.

by ceegeewow on Mar 11, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Why?

would the Cubs throw away 4m without even letting Eyre pitch in the regular season? Eyre sucked in the first half, but he had a 0.81 era in the second half of the season.(4.13 era overall) Some need to realize that spring training is meaningless for veteran pitchers like Eyre, Howry and others. So if they pitch poorly it doesn't matter. Sure it's annoying to us fans, and some fans start calling for Eyre head but remember it's only spring training and these games don't count.If Eyre gets rocked in April and May then I will say yeah it's time to release him. But you don't cut proven players who have big league contracts, before even giving them a chance to play in the regular season. There's still a decent chance Eyre could still be pretty solid this year, with the way lefty relievers are up and down in their careers.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 11, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions

Oakland announcer:

there is a volume control on computers, you know.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Mar 11, 2008 4:51 PM CDT reply actions

I keep falling for that email notification sound

every time, knowing it's coming from the announcer's computer. At least we don't have to hear, "You've got mail."

Is it here yet? Is it here yet?

by flachimesa on Mar 11, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions

I sent him some help

I thought that would work. Damn.

"Hello again, everybody. It's a bee-yooo-tiful day for baseball."- Harry Caray

by TkGoUWGB on Mar 11, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions

TK you got a shout out. Nice!

by Tangled Up In Blue on Mar 11, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions

update

from someone who is listening please

by cubswin14 on Mar 11, 2008 5:02 PM CDT reply actions

Update:

The announcer has had about five emails during the past half-inning.

The crowd just sang "Take me out to the Ballgame" and a lot of the fans sang "Root, root, root for the Cubbies..."

Oh, yes, the score. I believe it is 6-2. The announcer has been reading his emails and can't be bothered to announce.

by zevkalman on Mar 11, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Ramirez just walked and DeRosa got a broken

bat single...

by zevkalman on Mar 11, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Soto flied out and Rammy moved to 3rd

and Fuld just walked to load the bases with one out.
McGehee grounds into a DP.

by zevkalman on Mar 11, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions

theyr'e gonna sub a hitter in for Wuertz?

Get a little Dwarle goin?

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions

gameday sez

mcghee subbed twice-- once for zambrano and once for wuertz. i think the second was hoffpauir as he came into the game in the top of 8.

gameday has fallen asleep.

"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Mar 11, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Moving along quick

gameday sez top of 8 ended after the second out. Ummmm...

It's that wonderful time of spring training when no one's paying much attention and no one really cares. I wish I were at a ballpark in AZ with a beer in my hand.

Less than two weeks to go!!

"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Mar 11, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Im mean LESS THAN THREE WEEKS TO GO!!

"Trapled moss on your souls; changes all you're a part; seen it all, not at all; can't defend a (Cubs fan)"- pearl jam

by section229beer on Mar 11, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions

emaG

revO

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Mar 11, 2008 5:49 PM CDT reply actions

A lot of people here

wanted to DFA Eyre last season.

I disagreed with them.

I'm thinking I was wrong.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 11, 2008 6:49 PM CDT reply actions

he hasn't looked great.

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 11, 2008 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Understatement _par excellence_

He's looked horrid. He looks out of shape, unfocused and off his game...and this is the part of ST where the pitcher are ahead of the batters. Once the bats speed up, it's going to get worse. He had better get his tuchus in gear.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 11, 2008 7:11 PM CDT up reply actions

It's spring training

and in Arizona, were ALOT of pitchers struggle. It's often hard for a pitcher to get good movement on his pitches when he pitches in Arizona in spring training, thats why pitchers era's are often very high for teams that play in Arizona.(oppsite of Florida) Plus a veteran like Eyre, might take longer to be ready for the season then some pitchers. Eyre will be on this team opening day and given a chance, if he sucks then he will be released at some point. But right now there's still a decent chance he could be solid this year. You can't judge proven veteran players numbers in spring training. There have been thousands of players who have had horrible spring trainings, and been quality players once the season started.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 11, 2008 7:48 PM CDT reply actions

Network Bar

Bleed Cubbie Blue -

Open Thread: Cubs vs. Athletics, Tuesday 3/11, 3:05 CT

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