Cubs trainer punk'd
by Rezze21 on Mar 18, 2008 9:02 PM CDT
50 comments
http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_hardball/2008/03/cubs-coach-punk.html
MESA, Ariz. -- The Cubs were heading out to practice Tuesday morning at HoHoKam Park when Aramis Ramirez went up to strength and conditioning coach Tim Buss.
"Hey Bussy, what's your car doing on the ramp?" Ramirez asked, pointing to a wrecked '95 Nissan sitting on a ramp near the Cubs bullpen.
Buss looked over at the wreck and replied: "That's not my car."
But then Buss did a double-take.
"Dude," he said to Ramirez. "That's my car!"
Buss, who had just driven the car to work, soon discovered that it had been demolished beyond recognition by some unknown perpetrators and brought to the ramp for him to see. He was aware that the pitchers liked to pull pranks, like a couple years ago in Mesa when they stole Will Ohman's tires and left his car on cinder blocks. But this was no ordinary prank. The car windows had all been smashed in, the front, back and sides were all severely dented, and the smoking guns -- a couple baseball bats and balls -- were strategically placed in the windshield in case Buss wanted to get some fingerprints for the Mesa Police.
But it didn't take a CSI team to figure out the perpetrators. Buss figured it was the "usual suspects" all along.
"I figured (Jon) Lieber, (Kerry) Wood immediately, (Ryan) Dempster," he said. "Then I realized it was every pitcher we have."
The Cubs players went on about their business and continued the workout while Buss silently fumed and wondered how he was going to tell his wife, who was the owner of the car.
"It's a shame," Lieber said with a straight face. "What kind of person would do something like that? It really just shocks me. I'm sure she'll understand."
After the workout ended, Buss was talking about the incident to reporters in the Cubs clubhouse when Dempster told him to "quit pouting" and come with him to the weight room to "see something." From there, Buss and several pitchers walked out a back door and found a 2008 Nissan Xterra parked in the walkway.
The prank was complete. Buss was presented with a new SUV valued at around $25,000. While he sat in the driver's seat in a daze, Carlos Zambrano got in on the passenger's side and cranked the stereo, bobbing his head to the music.
"I thought they lost their mind," Buss said. "I thought, 'I'm going to have to call Dr. Phil and have a team meeting. I couldn't figure out what they were doing."
Buss was nearly moved to tears by the players' generosity.
"They're great guys," he said.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Thats an impressive prank for sure!
I'm drunk......and it shows.....
by Keystone80435 on Mar 18, 2008 9:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Um...
you're gonna have to pair down that story to a couple of quotes.
"Dad gum right this games gonna be played under protest. . . I guarantee this is gonna be one protest that's upheld." --Hawk Harrelson, 6/24/07
by RynoHoF on Mar 18, 2008 9:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
I love it.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
by LPLancer23 on Mar 18, 2008 9:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I could use a prank like that!
Damn Nutrisystem...I'm freakin dyin for some Italian beef!
by Kinky Reggae on Mar 18, 2008 9:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
add me to that list
I'm drunk......and it shows.....
by Keystone80435 on Mar 18, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got a 1994
Geo they can take some whacks at with a sledgehammer, if they want.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on Mar 19, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now if only I could be so PUNKD
I'd love to have Kosuke open the door for me!
Well, Next Year is here .. and Jack's century's gotta end some time .. GO CUBBIES!
by cubnational on Mar 18, 2008 10:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That is AWESOME
And the best part is Zambrano bumping tunes in the guy's new car.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Mar 19, 2008 12:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Any pictures available?
Anybody who is down there take some pictures? I'd love to see what the destroyed car looked like.
by madmf on Mar 19, 2008 9:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I heard Len
and Bob talking about this yesterday during the game. Nice of the pitchers to buy him a new vehicle.
by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Huh
My general feeling is that of outrage at the players. it was not their property, they had no right to damage it, let alone destroy it. Now the trainers 13 year old car with good gas mileage and a low insurance premium has been "replaced" without his say so, by a gas guzzling SUV with a high insurance premium. Since he's driving a 13 year old car, one can guess that he doesn't have enough extra income to buy and run a new and expensive car, or that if he does, that he has better uses for the money.
BUT HE HAS LOST THIS CHOICE due to the arrogant actions of a few spoiled brats. I hope to heck the players are all going to chip in a couple of K each as well to offset the new insurance bill and the higher gas bills.
If it hadn't been the entire pitching staff, i would have advocating suspending and/or cutting the pitchers involved. As it is, if they know who was responsible, he should be suspended without pay for a month. Reprehensible conduct.
by frustratedfan on Mar 19, 2008 5:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.
Well, if he doesn't want the gas guzzling SUV with the high insurance premium, he could always sell it and get a car he likes. A brand new SUV will have a fairly high resale value.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Mar 19, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CSN just
showed an interview with Tim Buss and he is very appreciative. His wife loves it and he said he had to get up at 3 a.m. just to put his hands on the sterring wheel (I'm sure he was joking about that last part). Lou thought it was a very nice thing for the players to do.
by sue369 on Mar 19, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is he Going to Say?
What is he going to say? That he's truly po'd that his co-workers have absolutely no respect for his property and engaged in an act of criminal vandalism? To keep his job, he has to keep quiet, pretend that he's not upset, and humor the pitchers.
Whether he could resell it and buy a more responsible car is a moot point.
It was an irresponsible act of vandalism.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should just save this picture on my desktop for you
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer
by Hammer on Mar 20, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol@frustrated fan
How's your blood pressure doing?
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
frustratedfan........
Chill out!!!
It's stuff like this that creates good team chemistry. I've seen pictures of the demolished car, and it deserved to be whacked. Also, the Busses have been blessed with a child this past winter and the new vehicle will help them out.
by montecarlo on Mar 20, 2008 2:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
New Child
Great. Another person who wants to take away personal judgment from someone else. You have decided that Buss has to spend more money on his car. You note that he has a new Child. This means that he has LOTS more expenses. So the players basically just cut his pay by $100 or more per month with insurance and higher fuel prices. That's a real "kind" present. If they wanted to give him a new car, great. But don't destroy his existing vehicle. (And, of course, they could have spent another $750 - 1000 more and "punked" him without destroying his property. A non-working version of his old car could have been acquired from a junkyard. Hide the existing car, put the plates on the junker and beat up the junker and you would have had the same result without the property damage.)
And the fact that a "crime" creates good team chemistry is not an excuse. I am sure that taking a boat full of hookers out on a lake with a bunch of teammates or perhaps gang rapping a stripper at a team party would build team chemistry as well. And all three of these kinds of conducts would be wrong.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he needs to money HE WILL SELL the 25000 dollar car he just got FOR FREE
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer
by Hammer on Mar 20, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know
what the Buss' finances are? People drive crappy cars all the time but that doesn't mean they can't afford a new one. I don't know how you can compare what happened yesterday to gang rapeing a stripper. Damn dude, do you have any friends?
by McRipper on Mar 20, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Choices
Do you challenge any of the following:
1. Destruction of someone else's property without their permission is a crime.
2. A new car inherently costs more money, an old car inherently costs less money
3. People should have control over their own money and not be forced to spend money on something that they do not wish to spend money on EVEN IF THEY COULD AFFORD IT.
4. People should have a right to control their own property
Which ones do you disagree with?
Ultimately the Buss' finances are irrelevant. If they could afford to buy a new car, they made a volitional choice not to buy the new car. But Buss lost this volitional choice. HIS CAR, his own personal property, was taken away from him and destroyed. A criminal act which is subject to prosecution. If the car was worth more than 250$ its a Class 6 FELONY, if the car was worth more than $2000 its a class 5 FELONY. (Az Statutes 13-602 ).
And that's really why what the Cub pitchers did was so stupid. What if, for example, Buss decided that it "wasn't funny". What would the Cubs do with the entire Cub pitching staff facing felony charges? What if the next time they "punk" someone, the person decides to file charges? Its silly and immature.
As for the comparisons, they are valid. In the case of the gang rape, its a felony of a higher degree, but its still a felony. In the case of the houseboat full of prostitutes, its could be legal, a misdemeanor or a felony depending on the jurisdiction. And certainly we wouldn't excuse either of these as a "team building" exercise.
I am stunned and amazed that the media and the members of this blog so blithely dismiss felonies committed without any sense of remorse and yet demand that heads roll for conduct involving, for example, Steroids, which, depending on the specific conduct, might not be criminal, let alone felonious.
As for the "Debbie Downer" comments.... the truth sometimes hurts but it is important to point out when conduct is wrong.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All good points
but if Tim Buss doesn't give a shit, why do you?
by McRipper on Mar 20, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just Don't Get It
I think that the Cub fans posting here just don't get it. It ultimately doesn't matter whether THIS TIME the victim doesn't care. This is not a "personal" wrong which is addressed in a civil law suit, this is a criminal wrong which is a wrong to society as a whole and is prosecuted by the society.
Further, the next time the victim might care and demand State action and the consequences might be severe. And frankly, I don't think that we know whether the victim doesn't care. He knows that if he "cares" about this, he will lose his job. (Can you imagine the reaction of the management to an employee who files even a legitimate police complaint which results in an entire important Department in an organization being charged with a Felony?)
What matters is that the conduct shows an incredible lack of consideration for others and a total lack of understanding of the consequences of an action. Would we readily dismiss Drunk Driving if no accident were involved? Of course not. Is Drunk Driving a felony? No.
The wanton destruction of a valuable piece of property belonging to someone else is a crime and its a display of very bad judgment. That bad judgment is being reinforced by the media and by the cub sychophants that accept even the most uncivil behavior from their heros. Actions have consequences and pretending that they don't, doesn't change the facts.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should also point out...
that FF knows precisely dick about law. Even if this was prosecuted, there wouldn't be "state action". It would be prosecuted by the Office of the (probably) Maricopa county D.A.
Also, judges have leeway in sentencing under precedent. Given the circumstance: first offenders, without malice, and full intent and ability to compensate (and more), and the whole situation would be quite trivial. And besides, as we've already said many times, the only type of people who would actually press charges in these situations are whiny killjoys like yourself. I don't think your personality type would last long coaching a bunch of fratboy esque baseball players.
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your knowledge
(or lack thereof) speaks for itself. I was using the term "state" in the legal sense which reflects the action by any governing action. In other words, if you live in a town and the town has a law which it enforces, that is "state action".
As for the law in question, its a law of the State of Arizona. Whether it is prosecuted by the County or the State is really irrelevant. It would be state action and would be a prosecution under the laws of the State of Arizona. The fact that the Judge has leeway in sentencing also is not fully relevant. A Felony conviction is a felony conviction whether or not it carries jail time. Its a big deal. And Adults do their best not to engage in conduct which exposes them to potential felony charges.
Again, the Cub players got luck in choosing their victim. They picked someone who, whether or not he really found the conduct objectionable, has job pressure that prevents him from demanding prosecution.
More importantly, it was an unnecessary risk to "punk" the coach. They could have paid less than $2000 to get another car of a similar model and color, put the plates of the Coach's car on the similar car and substituted that in the parking space. They could have had his car towed (not theft because of no intent to deprive the owner of the usage of the vehicle) or moved to another place in the lot. Lots of other options. But they chose the criminal option. They had the intent to engage in the crime (they intended to damage the property) and they followed through with this intent (they damaged the property). The satisfied all of the elements of the crime.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we all agree to disagree and let it go?
Im sure Buss is very happy in his new car today, IMO (btw the guy on the left, is that Dirk Nowitzki as a kid?)
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer
by Hammer on Mar 20, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ
How the hell do you know he is facing job pressure that prevenets him from demanding prosecution. Do you really think the pitchers would have done this if they didn't know Buss would have been thrilled and overjoyed by their gesture? What a pompous arrogant outlook you have.
by McRipper on Mar 20, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so let him sue the cubs if he's really that upset
I know whining is your hobby, but buss doesn't need you to fight his battles. If he really was clearly upset, I have to believe that the players (worth tens of millions) or the company that owns the team (worth billions) will make the buss family more than happy. Even with the new car he could still sue for compensatory damages, as I believe that you could argue that the new car doesn't return him to his original (pre-vandalism) position. He could probably get some punitive damages if he wants to argue "suffering" or some such bullshit.
Either way, you are a comically lame, whiny blowhard, FF. Your whole schtick is getting old.
If the players want to toss my 2001 civic off a cliff and buy me a new car, I'm all for it.
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You Don't Understand
What part of the "this is a display of bad judgment" on the part of the players do you not understand.
Did they commit a Felony in the State of Arizona? Yes.
Does the fact that they "replaced" the property eliminate the felony? No. if may have an impact on the punishment, but its still a felony. And when you have players running around committing felonies, you are going to quickly start losing players.
I have never claimed that he has a "civil" wrong - i.e. a personal prosecution for destruction of his property. Its very likely that he would be unable to win a single dime in court because he has received a new car far exceeding the value of the old car. What does exist is a "criminal" wrong for a violation of one of the basic rules of society -- that one does not destroy the personal property of another.
As for the comment that I am a comically lame, whiny blowhard, I would simply suggest that you are too simple minded to understand the nature of my comments and are lashing out to attack something that you do not understand.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't understand
it's not a crime if Buss doesn't press charges.
by McRipper on Mar 20, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It most certainly is
It most certainly is a crime even if Buss doesn't press charges. Whether it would be prosecuted is a different matter. But its clearly a crime.
And, again, the point is being missed. Cub fans appear to not only be tolerating, they appear to be cheering criminal conduct. Felonious conduct. Conduct which can earn jail time. That they didn't face the music this time, doesn't change the fact that the conduct was plain stupid, childish and immature. Its like Drunk Driving. its wrong even if you get away with it. I have no doubt you will learn this once you are old enough to get your drivers license.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I love your comparison of this to DUI. That, my friend, is a pretty damn spurious relationship. Nice try, though.
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who gives a shit?
If you are this upset about it, call the local Arizona law enforcment and press charges yourself. Who do you think you are to try and pass your moral beliefs on the rest of us who are trying to talk about BASEBALL? We get it. You are so offended by these players' actions. Maybe you should write the Cubs organization and tell them how disgusted you are that these players aren't being brought up on criminal charges. I'm sure they will prosecute them personally after hearing how upset it has made you.
by McRipper on Mar 20, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Moral Beliefs?
Not my moral beliefs. Society's Moral beliefs as reflected in the laws passed by the society to govern the conduct of the society. This is not a wrong in which the victim has the absolute discretion as to whether or not it will be prosecuted.
But again, you and the other frat boy are missing the basic point. My problem is that the conduct on the part of the players is stupid in that it unnecessarily exposes them to felony charges and the likely resultant suspension by MLB for a conviction or a guilty plea.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They are your moral beliefs
because even though it's a crime, i don't care. There are a lot of crimes that i don't give a shit about like people who do drugs or people that steal or pitchers that destroy a coaches car. Obviously, you care about this so it is your moral belief that anybody who commits a crime should be punished for it. You are missing the point that i don't give a shit about your moral beliefs. So think about that while me and my frat boy buddy go drink some beer and get laid.
by McRipper on Mar 20, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
So we have established that you believe that crimes that you don't care about can be ignored. You have thus established that you don't wish to be a member of society since the crimes are those actions which society has decided are so evil that they must be punished by the state as opposed to actions that are just rude (burping in public, talking in a loud voice on a bus, passing gas as you work your way to your seat, etc)
They are not my moral beliefs. I think lots of conduct that is criminalized by the state should not be criminalized. But I work to change those rules, not simply ignore them. That's what adult members of society do. If you think vandalism is not a crime, change the law. If you think that you and your frat boy buddies are allowed to have sex with any girl (or boy) that you decide has flirted with you in a bar because Beer makes you so attractive, go ahead. Change the law (or at least try) because its in the process of making laws that moral views arise.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FF, buddy
I really do think you might be the biggest killjoy in this hemisphere.
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think its criminal but this guy does
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer
by Hammer on Mar 20, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
I was just coming back here to post this. IT WASN'T A FELONY, FF. I've done/received numerous pranks that would have been considered crimes if the victim party pressed charges.
You simply don't know the true character of Buss's relationship to the players. Nor do I. We aren't a part of the organization. Pranks like this don't offend all people, like yourself (I, like most people here, would take the new car happily).
My point, essentially, is that you're incorrectly inserting your own values into a relationship that you aren't part of, and have no concept of the internal politics, as it were, that govern that relationship. If this was done to you, you probably would have had a huge fit and called the cops. That's fine...I'm sure, based on your general demeanor here (er...frustrated) that any friends you might have would be idiots to know you wouldn't respond well. Honestly, you're pretty far down on the lunatic spectrum, you know.
---------
Honestly, you should hear some of the pranks that have been done by me/to me/to people I know. Frustrated fan would cry into his pillow if I open that pandora's box of mischief and tomfoolery.
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was a Felony
Whether or not it was prosecuted, does not change the fact that the conduct was felonious. It was the destruction or vandalism to property of another with the value of the property being over $250 with the intent of damaging the property. Its a crime whether or not charges are pressed just as rape, murder, sodomy and drunk driving are crimes - whether or not charges are pressed. Whether or not the state (the collective us not a "US State" since you seem to have a very simplified definition of terms) elects to prosecute does not change that fact.
And this is a pretty dangerous path for the Cub players to take. To commit clear felonies in the belief that the victim of the felony isn't going to press charges and the state isn't going to decide on its own to press charges. This kind of reckless conduct is exactly what gets people in trouble.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would endorse this
Thelonious wrote:
If the players want to toss my 2001 civic off a cliff and buy me a new car, I'm all for it.
I would strongly endorse this if you were in the car and the players were Marquis, Lieber and Dempster. it would solve multiple problems in one fell swoop.
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahahahaha
man I love your little angry skits you put on.
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey FF...
isn't murder a felony? Or are you just hoping for some sort of miracle situation?
I'm not one of the guys who built the new SB Nation. Please hesitate to give me feedback.
by Thelonious on Mar 20, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is the beginning of a good mental exercise we can all partake in
If you could put any 4 people (baseball-related) in a 2001 civic and toss it off a cliff, who would they be?
[Disclaimer: to appease the murder-sensitive folks, let's assume it's a short cliff and the car will land on a 500 ft. deep bed of used cotton candy and recycled honey, Furthermore, their only way back to civilization will be via Amtrak and the CTA. In other words, we won't see these folks again until well after the 2008 season is in the books.]
My four would be...
- Jeanne Zelasko
- Jay Mariotti
- Bud Selig, and of course...
- He WOO shall not be named
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on Mar 20, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Four
Bud Selig
Sam Zell
Dusty Baker
Hawk Harrelson
by frustratedfan on Mar 20, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: "I want you to die in a horrible car crash off of a cliff"
Wow.
Um...go Cubs?
P.S. I really hope the Cubs don't pull this prank on me. Yep. I really don't want a new car. Nope. In fact I will assume this will never happen. So if any Cubs read this, don't prank me!!
(crosses fingers, puts copy of "Reverse Psychology for Dummies" back on the shelf)
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Mar 21, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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