Lahey to the Phillies
by madog93 on Mar 29, 2008 7:26 AM CDT
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PrintTim Lahey who the Cubs picked up in the rule 5 draft was picked up by the Phillies early this morning. They had to either keep him on the 25 man roster or take the risk of losing him. I was hoping along with Al that they could get him right back from the Twins as the PTBNL in the Craid Monroe deal, but it did not work out that way. I hate to lose him, but it is good to have too many arms. Here is the link to the article on chicagosports.com
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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It still might work out.
The Phillies have to keep him on the 25-man roster all year, as you mention. This doesn't seem likely. If anyone has the details on exactly what happens if the Phillies don't, please post.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I forgot about that.
I don't keep up with the other teams in the league as closely as I do the Cubs, so I don't know if they need the pullpen help badly. If they do then Lahey might have a chance at sticking around all year unless he struggles. Then he will feel like a ping pong ball.
"The longer you live, the longer you're gonna live." - Ron Santo
I Think What Happens...
... is that he is not on the 25-man roster for the full year (barring DL stints), then he is offered back to the Twins. However, he would need to re-pass through waivers. What's hazy is whether he would go through all 29 teams again, or if there is a pre-set list. The key here is that the standing would change from the snapshot that they took to determine the waiver claim order (2007 final standings).
Here's the Cubs article:
Lahey was Tampa Bay's No.1 pick in the Rule 5 Draft in December, and the Cubs picked him up from the Rays in a trade the same day. Once he was cut from the Cubs' big league roster, he had to clear waivers before being offered back to his original team, the Twins. If the Phillies don't keep Lahey on their big league roster, they will also have to offer him back to the Twins, pending waivers.
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
It isn't likely...
We have six months from the time of the trade to determine the PTBNL. The Monroe trade was made Nov 14, 2007. So for us to get Lahey as the PTBNL, he'd have to be cut from the Phillies 25-man roster, clear waivers, and be sent back to Minnesota all by May 14. Given that Philly just acquired him, it isn't likely that Lahey will be cut before the season starts (i.e., he'll be on the 25-man roster to start the year). Thus, he only has to make it a month and a half before he's no longer an option as the PTBNL.
If I were a betting man, I'd say he'll last at least through May on the Phillies roster. Early in the season, the rotation can be stretched a bit and bullpen depth is less critical. So at the worst, Philly can hide him for a while. He may not ultimately stay with Philly, but it's unlikely he'll be gone soon enough for us to get him as the PTBNL.
Where's 6 Month Reference?
You answered your own question...
As you said, there is a six-month window to complete a trade. Naming the PTBNL is part of completing the trade. The trade is not complete until the PTBNL is named or money changes hands. So the Cubs and Twins have until May 14 to either agree on the PTBNL or agree on the amount of money to change hands to complete the trade.
Was There No Way To Work This Out To Avoid It?
Just like the Rays sent Lahey to the Cubs for $150K, couldn't the Cubs have sent Lahey to the Twins for, say, $1, and then the Twinkies could return him as the PTBNL to complete the Monroe deal?
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
No, because under the rules...
... of the Rule 5 draft, Lahey had to be waived if the Cubs didn't keep him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Why Could The Rays Trade Him Then?
Was that perhaps allowed because it was pre-arranged without knowing who the player was?
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
Teams do this all the time in the Rule 5 draft.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Also, I Think The Cubs Were Allowed...
... to trade him. They may only have been able to trade with 28 other teams (exlcuding the Cubs and Twins)? Does anyone know?
I guess what I'm asking for here is a source of more details as it pertains to this type of stuff. While I likely won't become a GM (and don't want to go to GM school), this stuff intrigues me...
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
Sure, they could have traded him.
But why would any team make a deal like that? If they knew the Cubs couldn't keep him, why not just wait till they have to waive him (which they did) instead of giving up a player?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Hypothetically Speaking...
...say the Red Sox scounts say "get this guy". They'd be last in the waiver list, and if they felt another team would claim him, go for the trade.
That's one possible scenario...
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
The Cubs couldn't have traded Lahey
he was not theirs to trade. They never "owned" his rights. They declined to put him on their 25 man roster and he was subsequently snatched up by the Phillies. They don't own his rights either and can not trade him. He must remain on their 25 man roster for an enttire season and if not, he will be the property of the Twins.
The D-Rays traded him though...
the question is, why could the D-Rays trade him to the Cubs, but the Cubs not subsequently trade him?
I Was Suggesting...
... that they could have during ST before a 25-man roster is needed. In addition, they could have traded him had they had him on the 25-man roster to start the year...
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
I guess now we have to go to Plan B on the PTBNL from the Twins
Who is this Joe Nathan guy? ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
LOL!
Remember, he just signed the long extension, so that won't happen. I see your *wink*, though.
IIRC, the PTBNL cannot be from the same league. I remember reading somewhere that what happens here is that the two clubs, at the time of a deal, create a list of players for the receiving team to choose from. Typically, these players are in the minors. What's this "same league" stipulation? Can the NL and AL swap major leaguers, but two NL teams or two AL teams cannot?
Another thing teams often do is name the player who is currently on the DL. Once that player is off the DL, they are then named that player and sent. The stiupulation here is that you cannot trade players that are on the DL.
I think there is a time limit that the deal needs to be completed withing 60 days. Is this accurate? I seem to recall that the Izturis deal for us last year took forever to complete (we got that used infield rake, no?).
That said, and assuming what's above is accurate, if the Phillies offer Lahey back to the Twins and he clears waivers, the Twins could still include him as the PTBNL - presuming this occurs within 60 days of the Monroe deal. Sound accurate? Sound unlikely?
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
It IS 6 Months...
...my bad.
I think there is a time limit that the deal needs to be completed withing 60 days. Is this accurate? I seem to recall that the Izturis deal for us last year took forever to complete (we got that used infield rake, no?).
That said, and assuming what's above is accurate, if the Phillies offer Lahey back to the Twins and he clears waivers, the Twins could still include him as the PTBNL - presuming this occurs within 60 days of the Monroe deal. Sound accurate? Sound unlikely?
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
A ha!!!
I think akdov initram has discovered the "edit" feature of SB 2.0 ;-)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
If and when the Phillies
put him back on waivers(this year), he will be returned back to the Twins.
He will not be on the Phillies 25 man roster for a full season.
lol......
I find it humorous that all you guys think this guy who we all want dont think he will stick with the Phillies.....if he's good enough for us, surely he's good enough for them.
All things great in 2008!!
by By Santo's Grace on Mar 29, 2008 4:44 PM CDT reply actions
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