I can't believe we let Baker go.

by kidk on Mar 6, 2008 11:09 AM CST Comment 34 comments

I mean, with a manager that makes his lineups like this:

"Baker said he sometimes sits in his office staring into space, pondering and pontificating over things of this nature, 'And sometime I just sit here and nothing comes.' But he knows it'll all come to him as he observes exhibition games."

How does this man fool so many teams into hiring him? Is this the type of things he says in his interviews?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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He doesn't want to clog his mind up.

Old Style is the nectar of life.

by Mordecai on Mar 6, 2008 11:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Somehow

Many people had the perception that Dusty was baseball's Yoda. And when Dusty was staring off into space with a toothpick in his mouth, he must be pondering deep thoughts arising from his vast inner vault of baseball genius. And when Dusty uttered comments that made no sense, it was just that we mere mortals couldn't fathom the complexity and brilliance of his non-linear analysis.

Then we learned the horrific truth. Fact is, inside Dusty's skull, nobody was home, just a few moths flying around in circles.

"Everything that rises must converge"

by jpalaska on Mar 6, 2008 11:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Boy, that sums it all up perfectly!

lol

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Mar 6, 2008 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"Clog the bases you must not"

"Neifi Perez to this team bring, dude. Pay attention to pitch counts I do not."

by Thelonious on Mar 6, 2008 3:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lol

Good stuff TD

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Mar 6, 2008 4:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

April 15!

That's the first date Cub fans can see the Dusty Genius At Work, when the Reds visit Wrigley Field for the first time this year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2008 11:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Don't be surprised if...

the Reds put a pounding on us in that series. I can see Dusty having the Reds all geeked up to help him get his revenge on the Cubs, and Chicago fans in particular.

If you think you've seen it all...just wait!

by CubFanSince1970 on Mar 6, 2008 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

re: April 15!

I'm sure it'll be a taxing experience. Get it? "Taxing" because...April 15 and...um...sorry.

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.

by dat cubfan daver on Mar 6, 2008 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dusty

5 bucks says Dusty has a bong collection at home. He's Bob Marley in baseball pants.

by MDBNIU on Mar 6, 2008 12:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I've got a confession

I was worried earlier in the offseason about Cincy being a threat because of their young talent, the fact that they can put together a decent lineup, and that they have a few starters who are at worst solid.

And then they hired Dusty. And articles like this do nothing to make me fearful again.

by JDay on Mar 6, 2008 12:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I feel sorry

for Aaron Harang... Living in the Cincy area, i have really enjoyed watching this guy pitch. And to think that will all be over this year as Dusty blows out another promising arm.

Bye bye Aaron. We'll all miss you

Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart. Not her wart. I'm the wart. She's my tumor.

by Dr Eamus Catuli on Mar 6, 2008 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

i think

there's as many "we hate Dusty Baker" threads as they are "Brian Roberts to Cubs" threads....

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 6, 2008 12:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

True

See from the date of the site inception to current. I'm guessing Al's prior site has a couple negative comments toward Dusty as well.

by N Oakley on Mar 6, 2008 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But the "Dusty is a Jackass" threads...

...are much more interesting.

by DudeVf11 on Mar 6, 2008 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I Don't Hate Dusty

Actually I always liked him. Still do.

But I was very disappointed in his managing skills, while he was with the Cubs.
And I gotta say I wasn't very impressed with his announcing skills last year either.

"Everything that rises must converge"

by jpalaska on Mar 6, 2008 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Dusty

once again is trying to make his hitters over aggressive at the plate. This is from Rotoworld

Reds manager Dusty Baker has already decided he doesn't like Joey Votto's approach at the plate.

The approach that led to a .321/.360/.548 line and 17 RBI in 84 at-bats following his callup last season. "He needs to swing some more," Baker said. "I talked to him about that. Strikeouts aren't the only criteria. I'd like to see him more aggressive." Baker doesn't want Votto, Adam Dunn or anyone else taking called third strikes. "I really, really hate the called third strike," Baker said. "I hate that. You're guess and you ain't ready to hit." That Scott Hatteberg rarely strikes out makes Votto a particularly risky pick this year.

Sounds like Dusty is trying his best to make sure Dunn and Votto aren't base cloggers. I dunno how anyone could ever compare Dusty to Lou. Sure there both old school managers, but Lou's a smart old school managers who's willing to make changes and try modern day stuff, and Dusty is just a idiot.

Quick question though, who managers these days aren't really old school managers, and how many of them have won the WS compared to old school managers in recent years. To me it seems like the old school managing way seems bad but it still gets results alot.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 6, 2008 12:47 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

its because

managing on the whole doesn't make much difference

TALENT on the field is what matters 99% of the time

Jim Leyland went from good manager in Pittsburgh and Florida to bad manager in Colorado to great manager in Detroit

same can be said for Joe Torre, who was miserable in St Louis and then a HOF manager in NY

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 6, 2008 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

that having the right players will make a lot of managers look like geniuses (see Joe Torre) and having the wrong mix can make the better ones look bad.

Over 162, a manager that knows his talent and has great instincts, probably equates to 4-5 more wins vs a manager who doesn't. Where a good manager can have a great impact, is when they have a good working relationship with the GM, and they make the right recomendations in regards to player acquisitions or letting players go. That is what Piniella brought to the table last year, because the roster he was given to start 07, had a whole bunch of missing parts.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 6, 2008 1:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

looking at strike 3.. not good. I hate it too.

by wojo on Mar 6, 2008 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll bet Dusty's mind was clear...

...precisely because he hasn't yet figured out how to stop all his players from taking too many walks. It's no never mind that he already has a team that strikes out too much: he's ~still~ dreaming about reducing those called third strikes.

The NL Central's other pitching coaches---Duncan, Maddux, Rothschild---have got to salivating over how many SOs they can rack up against the Reds.

I'll bet those three already have a bet working. - TL

"Why shouldn't we believe that we're going to win the World Series?" - Ted Lilly, 1/19/2008, Daily Herald interview w/Barry Rozner

by timlacy on Mar 6, 2008 1:22 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I predict...

... Adam Dunn will walk less than 100 times this year -- first time ever in a full season -- and set a new K record, becoming the first player ever to K 200 times in a season.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2008 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The 2008 version of Rob Deer.

It's on every GM's shopping list these days. Luckily for Dusty, he brings + defense.

by N Oakley on Mar 6, 2008 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't it crazy to think that a hitter...

...could achieve a pitcher's dream of a K/W scenario, meaning 2:1?! - TL

"Why shouldn't we believe that we're going to win the World Series?" - Ted Lilly, 1/19/2008, Daily Herald interview w/Barry Rozner

by timlacy on Mar 6, 2008 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it, Al

If he walks less, he's going to K less. I have no numbers to back this up, but I do watch a lot of Reds games, and Dunn is caught looking for a significant chunk of his K totals. If he's more aggressive at the plate, those K totals should decrease.

I realize you don't think much of Dusty, but don't be ridiculous.

by Thelonious on Mar 6, 2008 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, you may be right.

I looked at Derrek Lee's numbers, coming from Florida to the Cubs in 2004.

His walk numbers went down. But his K numbers didn't go up.

Apart from the BB rate going down, his 2003 and 2004 seasons are nearly identical.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 6, 2008 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

interestingly enough

his 05 BB Rate jumped right back to where it was with the Marlins

even with Dusty managing....

by DartmouthCubsFan on Mar 6, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Seems to me

that if Dunn's walk totals go down that means he's not taking as many pitches out of the strike zone as he normally would. If he's swinging at more pitches out of the strike zone I think you could expect his K's to increase. He may K looking a lot but if he starts swinging at crap he's going to K more than usual.

I've said here and there that I don't think Dunn + Dusty is going to end well. Dunn seems hard headed enough to me that if Dusty starts messing with his "aggressiveness", or lack thereoff Dunn might not take it too well. I'm predicting that Dunn won't be a Red in 2009.

I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey

by pageian on Mar 6, 2008 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I suppose that could be true

That assumes a major regression of skills under Dusty, which according to recent research, is unlikely. I can't remember when, but Maddog over at anothercubsblog.net showed quantitatively that players might actually improve performances under dusty, when compared to their years with other managers. This would lend credence to his reputation as "players' manager". The data was far from conclusive, but it did indicate a favorable correlation of relative success under Baker managed teams.

I don't take that as an endorsement for Baker, because in my opinion, his weaknesses far outweigh any marginal performance benefit he might glean. His management of rookies and all pitchers is generally atrocious, and his in-game management is horrifyingly stupid and so archaic that Billy Martin would consider it démodé.

The most likely outcome from Dunn's decrease in walks would be a decrease in strikeouts. I'd have to look at some numbers to consider these other scenarios, but I think, logically, a player who strikes out on a lot of called strike threes would strike out less if he was more aggressive.

by Thelonious on Mar 6, 2008 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree...

...the one thing Dusty will do is put players at ease. He backs them 100%, and some players excel in that environment.

Bottom line, once a hitter is established, no manager is going to have a big impact on the type of hitter they are. The mental approach you take towards recognizing a pitch, is so ingrained in veterans, it just doesn't change much.

I would predict that the Reds players with an established track record, will have comparable numbers to what they have done in the past.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Mar 6, 2008 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

To extend that further

I don't think Dusty will touch Dunn in terms of trying to change his approach, at all. As the ultimate player's manager, established stars like Dunn are not subject to Dusty's coaching tips. That would be disrespectful of their status and position.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by JohnM on Mar 7, 2008 10:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs