A Split Decision

by Al on Mar 8, 2008 5:03 PM CST in Recaps Comment 52 comments

I was about ready to write: "the Cubs won two games today, as both halves of the split squad took their respective games".

But they didn't, thanks to Shingo Takatsu, who was wild (issuing a walk, hitting a batter and allowing a game-winning two-run single with two out), and the A's came back and won 7-6 over the Cubs in Phoenix in the bottom of the 9th.

Meanwhile, in the game that most of us saw on WGN, the Cubs defeated the Diamondbacks 4-1 in Mesa, in front of another sellout, 12,782.

I was one of those screaming loudest, "Why sign Jon Lieber?" Today, Lieber showed why. He's been described as a slightly younger, not quite as good version of Greg Maddux, and he pitches exactly that way. Works fast, throws strikes, and today he was really sharp -- allowing only two hits and striking out four in his four innings. If he keeps this up, the Cubs have no worries about a #4 starter (I say "four" because he's surely pitched well enough to be one, but really, after the first go-around in the rotation, does it matter what the rotation position is?).

Felix Pie walked, singled in two runs and scored another. Maybe this will begin to silence the Pie critics. Alfonso Soriano showed no ill-effects from his broken finger, as he had two hits. Sean Gallagher and Bob Howry also threw well; the only Cub pitcher to get touched for a run was Scary Scott Eyre, who had a shaky inning. However, all told Cub pitchers struck out eight, walked none, and scattered seven hits. Not too shabby.

In the road game, Daryle Ward proved that having a sore butt isn't hurting his hitting at all. He had a single, double and home run. Josh Kroeger, who became a particular favorite of some here last summer when he tore up Double-A pitching, hit three doubles today. (Maybe he really can help somewhere down the road.) A man-without-a-position, Jake Fox, had a double and two RBI, and a man who probably doesn't have one either, Matt Murton, doubled, walked, and scored twice. Bad today: Jeff Samardzija had a poor outing, allowing two runs, and Juan Mateo nearly coughed up the lead after Kroeger and Murton had both doubled in runs, and then Takatsu DID cough up the lead. Fortunately, none of those pitchers is going north with the major league club. Rich Harden, who was the A's version of The Employee (golden arm, always injured), got roughed up by the Cub scrubs (seven hits, two walks, four runs in three innings).

Onward to tomorrow (televised on WGN again). Lou Piniella, thinking ahead, has shifted Carlos Zambrano from Monday (when he was scheduled to start again) to Tuesday. Why? Because Monday is against Milwaukee, who Z will face on Opening Day. Lou doesn't want the Brewer hitters to get any extra looks at Z, even in spring training. Smart man.

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I thought the home-game squad

played very well -- although Cedeno wasn't impressive, except for that one double-play.

Ramirez, Soriano, Lee, Pie, all were nearly as patient at the plate as Fukudome were. Lots of contact hitting on the ground through the infield for RBIs, very little swinging for the fences. Lieber was excellent. Even when Steve Ire got in trouble, he got out of it. The bullpen did well.

If this is the team that's going to play every day (still waiting for DeRosa, of course), I think we're going to be very happy. I'd have preferred Theriot play this game rather than the away game, tho.

Worst to First in 2007, brought to you by Lou, Sori, A-Ram and D-Lee.

by drewishdrewid on Mar 8, 2008 5:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jon Lieber

Jon Lieber is smart and knows how to pitch. Cubs will surround him with a pretty good infield defense too. I think he's going to prove an outstanding bargain.

Daryle Ward? Two words...professional hitter.

by MDBNIU on Mar 8, 2008 5:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

100% agreed.

Not to mention, the Cubs' OUTFIELD defense this year should be superb.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2008 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Amusing

When the Cubs lose and play poorly, Cubbie Nation is quick to point out that it's only Spring Training and not to get carried away, afterall, it's only Spring Training.

When they play well however, all the critics of Pie and Lieber should be silenced? I don't get it. Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt in Spring Training. I did like what I saw out of Pie today. He did look much more comftorable at the plate today and I hope that that continues and he has the approach he did at the plate today, throughout 2008. The grain of salt: all this came against a pitcher in Micah Owings who clearly was struggling with his location and delivery and would've been hard pressed to get Rookie Ball hitters out.

I'm Ok with the Cubs signing Lieber but I'm not ready to annoint him to the ALl Star game after 4 innings in March against a bunch of Dback Minor Leaguers (only 3 starters for the DBacks played today). I did however like the movement on his slider and his change-up, which I honestly didn't realize he had such a good change up. However I was disappointed to see him top out at 84 MPH. Sure you don't need to throw 95 MPH to be successful in the Majors as Maddux obviously has proven, but if you're going to throw in the mid 80's, you better have good movement on every pitch and impecible control. Does Lieber fit that?

Soto looked really bad today as well. Not only his results, but his swing looked tight and not fluid. I also thought I read that he lost even more weight and was in great shape. He looked heavier to me,than he did last season.

Dome looked bad against Lyons, which is no cause for concern, but something that should be noted is that Lyon was throwing exclusively change ups against DOme. Soemthing that has been pointed out could be a cause of concern for him in his scouting report. Something though after seeing him 5 times so far this Spring, I have no doubt he'll improve upon. This guy is baseball smart and has all the intangibles that you can not teach.

My point is: Spring Training should be taken with a grain of salt and questions about certain players should not be put to rest based on Spring Training results. If that were the case, Cedeno would be an All Star.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the gun wasn't right

It couldn't have been right I rarely saw it say over 90 today(Howry/Gallagher weren't hitting 90 either). I bet Lieber was throwing closer to 89-91 today.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 8, 2008 7:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's very possible that the gun

Was slow, but not 5-6 MPH slow.

ANyway, I'm glad he threw well today and most importantly in these games, he didn't get hurt.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

Those things have to be zeroed all the time. My scale at home is off 5-6 pounds occasionally and usually off 1-3 pounds. I would believe it could have been off 5-6 mph.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 8, 2008 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Obivously

my scale at home is a bad example, my point is that those things are not always right and thereofre off 1-2 mph occasionaly so why not if let alone and not zeroed would it not be able to be that far off.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 8, 2008 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your scale at home is indeed a bad example

when making comparisons to a gun used in Spring Training, a gun that Managers and pitchers use religiously to use as an indicator to where a MLB pitcher is at this time in Spring Training. I've sat a couple rows behind home plate many many times and pitchers (more so pitchers) and Managers routinely come over to the gun operator after an inning and asking what a certain pitchers velocity is at.

It's very possible that a gun could be off 1 or at the most 2 MPH's but not 5 MPH, not at this stage of ST. It would've been calibrated by now.

Now, having said that, WGN could be using their own gun and the players and Managers could be using their own, in which case it's entirely possible that WGN's gun could be off by 4-5 MPH. Anything is possible with the WGN crew, the worst production crew in the business, IMO.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh I agree

I would doubt the radars the scouts are using are off by far. BUT, on more than one occasion I recall the TV radar being off or even way off. I also remember watching games that are played in Houston where their radar was way off too.

Agreed, the scouts behind homeplate charting pitches NO, the TV radar----entirely possible

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 8, 2008 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I should clarify

When I said that I've sat behind home plate many times, I meant in Spring Training. Pitchers come over quite a bit asking where they were at velocity wise, because it's a judge of how far a long they are and how close they are to being where they need to be for the regular season.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but...

...I don't think that's the same radar gun that they use in broadcasts. Even in Wrigley, I've seen the stadium radar gun (the one they use for the TV broadcasts and the ribbon board) be at least 5-6 mph off on occasion, and the TV broadcast setup in Hohokam is much more primative.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 8, 2008 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've conceded that much as a possiblility

Although again, it's highly unlikely it was 5 MPH slow simply because I find it hard to believe that Lieber was throwing 90 today. That's just my opinion.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 10:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

in all fairness ST seems like slow motion sometimes.

On another random note....I really do love Bob Brenly, I think he is great. Great insight and a sense of humor that is 'interestingly funny'.

I like the duo, Id be happy with it for a long long time

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 8, 2008 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Another random note from those 2

Is that they both thought Roberts would be a "significant upgrade" and Brenley said he'd be an "ideal" lead-off hitter for this team and Soriano would hit lower in the order, where Bob said he thought Soriano would be of better use to this team.

I found that interesting.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 10:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I rewatched the game

and there's not a doubt in my mind that gun was way off. I can't say for sure Lieber was throwing 88-90 today(topped out at 85 according to WGN gun), but other pitchers velocity were really low today as well. Micah Owings topped out at 87, Brandon Lyon topped out at 85, Gallagher topped out at 88, Chad Qualls topped out at 91, and Bob Howry topped out at 87. I didn't pay much attention to the later innings, but I didn't see anyone throw over 91 all day according to WGN gun. So either the guns messed up or everyone of these pitchers velocitys were all way down today.

As for Lieber pitching today, I'm not surprised by it at all. I still never understood why so many people were thinking so little of him. Lieber in 12 starts last year had a 4.52 era(4.73 in 14 games overall)In the second half of 06(15 starts), he had a 4.52 era as well. So in Lieber last 27 starts he's been a 4.52 pitcher thats even with having a 5 plus era in Philly. So besides a fluke poor first half in 06(5.48 era). Lieber has been a quality number 3-4 starter since returning from Tommy John surgey in 2004. Getting out of Philly(5.18 era in 06, 5.26 era in 07) this year should only help his numbers. Unless Lieber has some type of injury, I will be surprised if we don't get somewere between 05-06 Maddux type numbers out of Lieber this year.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 9, 2008 12:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sean Gallaghers dad

posts on NSBB.com message board, and he confirmed that the gun on WGN was at least 4-6 miles per hour off. So Lieber was probably throwing closer to 89-90, Howry 92-93, Gallagher 93-94, which sounds about right this time of year in spring training.

by cubsfan25 on Mar 9, 2008 3:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

WGN

Anything is possible with the WGN crew, the worst production crew in the business, IMO.

You do realize, do you not, that with the exception of a very few 'GN staffers, the crew is likely the same people who man the cameras for FSN and ESPN, not to mention everyone else?

Now, I'm bearing in mind that Arizona is a long way from Chicago, and we're talking two different crew pools for the moment, but I do think you need to know that the same people you say are the "...worst..." are very likely manning the cameras, playback, Fox box, audio, and GFX for every other home feed out of Wrigley that is not carried on WGN.

And the radar unit is either the team's or the truck's. The camera guys and font operators (to name two positions) have nothing to do with it.

(Generally, if it's not a fixed unit in the stadium, it's a PA who is assigned for the game with a portable gun.)

So those people, my brothers and sisters in the crew world, who you're so casually slagging, have little if anything to do with what you're sounding off on, and I think you need to understand that. Because it's obvious from your post that you do not.

by MN exile on Mar 9, 2008 1:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Glad you vented

and beyond that, I have nothing else to say, I have said it already.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 9, 2008 4:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so are you saying that the great crew at WGN

was right about the low readings on the gun?

I'm confused.

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 9, 2008 4:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

hilarious!

are you asking yourself a question? lol.

by anormal on Mar 9, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

First off, it wasn't "venting"!

You don't know what you're talking about when you say "WGN crew" and that's a fact.

Second, the announcers (not the crew, once more, just so you understand - the crew makes the pictures and captures sound) take the numbers the readout gives them. They don't cal the gun.

Yeesh, some people...

by MN exile on Mar 10, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funny thing about Harden

is that people were comparing Harden to Prior before both of them started getting hurt. They just kept mimicking each other.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Mar 8, 2008 5:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Unfair

From everything I read Rich Harden has worked his tail off to get healthy and pitch. A more apt comparison for Harden is Kerry Wood. Unlike Prior, the heart and the dedication are not called into question.

by MDBNIU on Mar 8, 2008 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Deep thinking

I was just thinking today, and this isn't really worth a diary so I'm putting this here, but if you would have told me in 1986 that the Cubs have two rookie pitchers that would win 577 games between the two of them and counting 22 years later, I would have said "No way!"

If you'd have told me that only 161 of those wins would have been for the Cubs, I would have said "Oh, that makes a lot more sense."

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Mar 8, 2008 5:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Trade scenario with Boston....

Curt Schilling is on the shelf for a long time. The Red Sox want to hold in check the inning load of Clay Bucholz and Jon Lester. And now it is learned that oft-injured Josh Beckett is battling severe back spasms.

Jason Marquis is expendable, but his contract makes him difficult to move. I know this has been unpopular on this board, but I once again will bring up Marquis ($16.5 M due) for Coco Crisp ($11 M due). With Crisp as the 4th outfielder whether he likes it or not. Solves the problem of Marquis and it gives us a needed outfield piece.

by MDBNIU on Mar 8, 2008 5:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I still think...

... getting Crisp, who has publicly said he'd be unhappy platooning in Boston, to platoon with the Cubs, would be getting a clubhouse cancer. Don't need that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2008 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

by SouthernCub on Mar 8, 2008 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing is perfect

This is what I'd say about Coco Crisp. He's got one year on his contract. Chances are very strong he will never see an $11 million per season payday again. But suffice to say, he has got A LOT to prove in 2008 if he wants to get somebody to hand him a decent contract next winter. I gotta believe he is going going to be STRONGLY motivated to shut his mouth, work his tail off and perform. He'll give Felix Pie a real good push too, which should work out to the benefit of the Cubs and, I would think, Pie himself.

by MDBNIU on Mar 8, 2008 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That $11M

is for two years plus the buyout of his third year option. (Per Cot's Baseball Contracts.)

Theoretically, we could pay him $4.75M this season and trade him in 2009 ($5.75M) if he doesn't work out.

I don't think he's a legitimate lead-off hitter (neither does Terry Francona), and I'd hate to see him block Pie, but that might be the only way to unload Jason Marquis.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on Mar 8, 2008 11:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Other deals?

I may have missed this in other diaries, but --

Al, your source seems to be on regarding "the trade" . . . any indications (other than Crane Kenney) that something is in the works before opening day?

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 8, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Other meaning not "you know who"

and no, that doesn't refer to Voldemort

by Shanghai Badger on Mar 8, 2008 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Have heard nothing the last few days.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 8, 2008 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I still like the idea......

of insurance for Pie. But.....as a Pie doubter I have to say he looked impressive today. Nice patience. I hope we see more of this for sure.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun......I pledge to lay off Felix for a couple weeks and hope he seizes this oppurtunity. Still.....I agreee that Crisp is much better than we have for a 4th outfielder and I am confident if they get them that hendry will have asurance that he is not the cancer some fear him to be......

by plenz on Mar 8, 2008 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Marquis

Why is Marquis already expendable? He pitched well last outing. Let him earn his spot. Besides, we invested a lot of money in him.

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on Mar 8, 2008 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Normally,

I'd agree, but Marquis let his mouth write a check his ass can't cash. He's gotten in Lou's doghouse and those guys usually find themselves in a different clubhouse.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on Mar 8, 2008 9:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed...............

Based on the last 4 or five years......who has the best chence of double digit wins and 190-210 innings.....Marquis,Lieber or Dempster?

Not a big Marquis fan by any means but not so sure we can call him expendable just quite yet. We do know he will take the ball every 5 days. I'd be a little worried if Marquis,Marshall and Gallagher are all gone......leaving us thin in starting pitching depth. That being said.....I still hope we get outfield depth and......well..................you know who..

by plenz on Mar 8, 2008 9:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Pie

played well today. Wasn't it said by Lou today that Pie has the edge over Fuld for CF?

Lieber was fun to watch. Scott Eyre was a little scary to watch.

Glad to hear Matt had another good game just wish I could have seen him play too.

by sue369 on Mar 8, 2008 6:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Lou said...

Pie has separated himself from Fuld in CF. I'd take that to mean slightly more than just having the edge. But yes, he alluded to the fact that he thinks Pie has outplayed Fuld.

by SouthernCub on Mar 8, 2008 10:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

In Lous head Pie is the starting CF now. I dont see how Fuld has any real chance. I like Fuld, I do----

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer

by Hammer on Mar 8, 2008 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Completely agree...

I think Piniella wanted Pie to simply show enough in spring to merit being the starting CF against RHP. Ideally, he'll be able to face both, but more likely Lou is hoping someone can play CF against the LHP. But I think the "competition" between Fuld and Pie was a bit overblown. I think that Pie would have had to take a complete nosedive in spring to lose at least a platoon job in CF. It doesn't appear that that's going to happen.

by SouthernCub on Mar 8, 2008 11:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Does

anyone know when they update the season ticket wait list on cubs.com?

by cubswin14 on Mar 8, 2008 7:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Have no idea.

Can someone on the wait list log in and let us know what # they are up to?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Mar 9, 2008 4:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just checked and it's like a Trachsel fastball

No movement.

My magic number is still 69613. I'm pretty sure I read in one of the threads not that long ago that the turnover from last year was only 4! Three people died and one person gave up their ticket. So even when they do update the list, I ain't moving very far. At this rate, it'll be the year 19,410 before I get a chance.

C'mooooooonnnn cryogenics!!!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on Mar 9, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am

in the 9800s...but at that rate it won't matter.

by cubswin14 on Mar 9, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hello folks

my first post of the year, coming from europe, where i'll be for most of the season. i'm so desperate i'm planning on buying mlb.tv tomorrow to start watchin some games! can not WAIT

by lilkimmer77 on Mar 8, 2008 11:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Can you get DirecTv

and the Baseball package in Europe?

Lemon20Pie's 2008 PECOTA for Rich Hill: 204 IP 30 HR 75 BB 180 SO 1.35 WHIP 4.25 ERA

by lemon20pie on Mar 8, 2008 11:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope, no DirectTv

over there it is Sky, and Europeans think baseball is boring, so except for the World Series...no baseball. I missed 03 and 04 seasons when I was stationed in Germany. They have AFN, which has to be owned by ESPN because they show soooo many Red Sox and Yankees games.

by punchnpie325 on Mar 9, 2008 4:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I lived in London

during the '05 series. Stayed up every night to watch the sox play, because Sky 1 broadcast the games live. They all started at about 1 or 2 am, and being WS games lasted forever. It was fun though.

I think the British are a bit more into baseball than people on the continent simply because of their obsession with cricket. Because of the similarity of the sports in some ways it seems like the interest can translate. I know that because I couldn't watch baseball I sure got into cricket, and still follow it from home now.

In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Mar 9, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

AFN is part of the Defense Department.

It's a network for servicemen stationed overseas, operated by the guvment - networks give programming to AFN for free with the understanding that no commercials will be aired; AFN fills the commercial blocks with the most godawful PSAs known to man. (I'm not too proud to admit I've been involved with the production of one or two of those PSAs.)

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Mar 9, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know all about AFN

Having to deal with 4 Super Bowls with AFN commercials was pure hell. I was kinda throwing a punch at ESPN saying that they show a lot of favoritism towards baseball teams on the north east part of I-95(Yanks, Sox). AFN always showed ESPN's and ESPN2's wed, thurs, and sun games. And if there is a Yanks/Sox game on Fox and also a Cubs/Cards on Fox you know which one will get shown on AFN.

by punchnpie325 on Mar 9, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs