Trade Options?
by frustratedfan on Apr 1, 2008 8:50 AM CDT
29 comments
The Washington Nationals had yet another Corner OF go down to injury yesterday. First Wily Mo Pena and now Elijah Dukes. Do they now become a "trade partner" for the Cubs? They also need young pitching and other building blocks for the future.
What about Murton, Marshall and Gallagher to the Nationals for Cordero and Lopez.
It gives the Nationals temporary fill-in for the injured corner OF's and two young pitchers to help stock the rotation and the team. It gives the Cubs a bona fide, top of the line, young stud closer and a young SS with good experience and some upside.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Ugh.
Why do we need either one of those guys? We have a closer. Cordero's ERA and WHIP went up alarmingly last year, and he had NINE blown saves.
Lopez hit .245/.308/.352 last year. He's Neifi Perez in disguise. And he's not "young"... he's 28 next month.
Finally, why would you panic and make a move like this after one day? No real GM would.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 1, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Terrible.
Why give up that much for a closer (which we don't need), and an older version of Ronny Cedeno?
Haiku-a-Day for Fukudome, helping Fuku understand the American game, 17 syllables at a time. Visit cubshaikus.blogspot.com!
by Bildo1805 on Apr 1, 2008 9:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trades
I think Jim Hendry will hang tight for the time being. The open question marks are at shortstop and centerfield. If Ryan Theriot is not up to the task then I think we will see Hendry acquire somebody new. I would think Theriot has 6 weeks or so to prove himself. The same holds true with Felix Pie, though I think the Cubs will stick with the experiment until the All-Star break. If Pie isn't up to the challenge, then the Cubs can look at other options to include more playing time for Reed Johnson, promotion of Tyler Colvin or acquiring somebody.
I'm not a fan of Jack Wilson, but something tells me he will become a Cub at some point in 2008. Pittsburgh would like to move him and he is considered a quality professional and quality shortstop. Don't shoot the messenger. Just callin' it like I see it.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Statistical comparison.
Wilson lifetime: .269/.312/.377
Theriot lifetime: .274/.339/.376
Are these not essentially the same player? And Wilson's #s are skewed by the year he hit .308/.335/.459 and got a huge contract, some of which the Cubs would have to take if they got him. What's the point?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 1, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than...
the fact that Jack Wilson is MUCH better defensively.
Still not a smart move IMO. What would we have to give up to get just a small bit better?
Haiku-a-Day for Fukudome, helping Fuku understand the American game, 17 syllables at a time. Visit cubshaikus.blogspot.com!
by Bildo1805 on Apr 1, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Pirates would love to get much of anything...
...to be rid of Wilson's contract.
I'd expect Wilson and Theriot to be around the same offensively this season, with Wilson hitting in a tougher park - but not that much tougher. The real difference between them is defensive prowess - Wilson is a very good defensive shortstop - not elite, but very good.
But he's owed $6.5M this season and $7.25M next season, and he's certainly not worth that much. And then you're essentially committing to a below-average shortstop again in 2009. I'm not sure I'm interested.
by cwyers on Apr 1, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jack Wilson is an upgrade over Ryan Theriot
Wilson is a strong defensive shortstop and the most important defensive position on the baseball diamond. He is a rich man's version of Adam Everett.
I like Ryan Theriot and I hope he can work out. Truth be told I have serious doubts about his ability to maintain status as the everyday shortstop on the playoff-chasing Cubs. I think his highest and best use is as a super-utility player who helps out in the infield and possibly even center field. But lets give it some time. I think Piniella, Hendry and the Cubs will stick with Theriot until the evidence is rather conclusive on what he can and cannot do as everyday player.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a poor man's Everett. A very poor man's Everett.
Adam Everett is possibly one of the best defensive shortstops of all time. What Everett does with the glove is amazing. Wilson is good, but he's nowhere near Adam Everett good. We're talking modern-day Wizard of Oz here.
And yes, Wilson is an upgrade over Theriot. But he's an old, expensive upgrade over Theriot, and the end result is somewhere between 1-1.5 wins on paper; prorate that for playing time and a deadline deal for Wilson doesn't make sense.
by cwyers on Apr 1, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention the large contract...
... which might prevent the Cubs from trading for someone who, you know, might actually help them.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 1, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
...getting Jack Wilson does not solve the weakness the Cubs have (top of the order). Piniella will give Theriot ample time in the leadoff spot over the next 30 games or so, and they will see where they are at.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Apr 1, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think promoting Tyler Colvin is a realistic suggestion.
So if Pie isn't putting up all-star numbers after six weeks they should call in a guy with less minor league experience? I guess I have to agree that Felix is, indeed, somewhat of a question mark but, to be honest, I'm not all that worried about him. As long as his bat isn't utterly ice cold, and he's getting on base at least a little bit, his defense in centerfield overwhelmingly qualifies him to be on the field.
Oh, and about the proposed trade. No thanks, neither of those players improves the team appreciably at the moment -- and especially not for for two pitchers.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 1, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
With all due respect, fawning over Felix Pie's defense has gotten carried away on this board. Yes he is an athletic and gifted outfielder. And yes he can be a defensive asset. But don't go putting him in the category of elite centerfielders until he has more service time under his belt. And his defense becomes a moot point if he can't hit .250 with a .300 OBP against the right-handed pitching he will face. He's got to produce at some level offensively, otherwise he needs to be replaced. The 2008 Cubs aren't a developmental squad or blessed with an overall lineup that rivals the 27' Yankees.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right.
But it is far too soon to make this judgment.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 1, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Felix Pie has earned the privilege to be granted a quality sample size to see what he can do at this level. I think the Cubs will be patient with him until around the All-Star break. I know this is not a popular sentiment on this board, but I will not be surprised to see Tyler Colvin getting a legitimate opportunity in CF should Pie flop. I think the organization is high on Colvin. Higher than a lot of Cub fans think.
If Felix Pie can become a poor man's Juan Encarnacion in this league I'd be happy. Maybe he can do it.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Colvin...
... but if you think Pie's strike zone judgment is bad, Colvin's is worse.
Colvin needs a full year at AAA to work on this. His upside is Jeff Francoeur. His downside is becoming a lefthanded Jason Dubois.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 1, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colvin
Tyler Colvin has all the makings of being a "professional hitter" at this level. I've seen his swing and hitting approach. It's very good for a young ballplayer. Fundamentally solid, gets the bat through the zone nicely, shortens up when he has to. Plate discpiline will come with time. I doubt he'll ever be high OBP guy, but overall his offensive contributions will prove quite solid.
Yeah, I like Colvin. A lot. I think Hendry and company do too. He may come on quick in 2008 to the point where he becomes a viable option to try out in CF should Felix Pie not be up to the task.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What sucks in this WIN NOW mentality
Is that the Cubs are constanly, IMO, not giving guys enough time to prove themselves.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry "I strongly dislike Steve Stone." ---Hammer
by Hammer on Apr 1, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please reference...
Corey Patterson, Hee Seop Choi, Bobby Hill, Jason Dubois, Brian Dayett and a long list of others. Don't feed me this mularkey that the Cubs aren't patient with young ballplayers. The overwhelming majority of "can't miss" positional prospects fed to the big league ballclub have been outright garbage.
Felix Pie and Ryan Theriot need to produce just like the other 23 guys on the roster. If they can't, then they need to be replaced or shuttled into other roles. The Cubs are a major league baseball club trying to win a World Series. They aren't in the business of being a developmental league. This organization has been more than accomodative to young prospects.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Disagree
For starters, I'm not putting him in the category of an elite centerfielder. That said, defensively speaking, he sure beats the hell out of predecessors such as Jacque Jones and Juan Pierre. I think the key phrase in your post is "until he has more service time." Exactly -- and how's he going to get that service time if he's yanked from the lineup a month and half into the season?
I suppose there's no denying that Lou has to have some sort of bottom line for Felix to hit. But, like I said, I'm not really worried about it at the moment. And I still don't see Tyler Colvin rushed to the majors to replace Felix, but maybe someone a little more familiar with Colvin and his status in the minors could speak to this better than I could.
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2008 Chicago Cubs starting outfield: Soriano-Pie-Fukudome. Let it be.
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 1, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just say no to Felipe Lopez
He's a enigmatic headcase with a baseball IQ on par with that of Ronny Cedeno.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 9:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade options?
Boy that was quick. What does Hendry do if they lose 3 in a row, start rebuilding for 09?
With that joking aside, I do think Hendry will be quick and aggressive in addressing any issues that appear to be costing the Cubs W's early in 08. By quick, I mean he will re-evaluate what he has by the quarter pole of the season and make moves if available.
Offensively, he knows the club could be vulnerable at SS, CF and possibly C and they will keep an attentive eye to how that is developing. They won't panic, but they will move with more urgency considering all of the circumstances.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Apr 1, 2008 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried about Geovany Soto
If he hits .260-ish and drives in a reasonable level of runs hitting out of the 7th hole then he will be worth his weight in gold. I think he will do just fine offensively.
by MDBNIU on Apr 1, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a lot of gold!
Haiku-a-Day for Fukudome, helping Fuku understand the American game, 17 syllables at a time. Visit cubshaikus.blogspot.com!
by Bildo1805 on Apr 1, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We know Murton is on the block...
...and so trade ideas for him are likely to be in season for a while. This isn't a response to yesterday's game, so far as I can tell.
by cwyers on Apr 1, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have a closer. (N/T)
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on Apr 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its not
a response to anything that happened to the Cubs. Its a response to the fact that yesterday the Nationals lost Elijah Dukes, a corner outfielder, due to injury. Frankly, the Nationals need a lot of help and have to build for the future.
The Nationals don't need an elite closer for now. Cordero's only 26, he has a career WHIP of 1.19 and is more experienced (in spite of his age) than the Cub Closers. Will Wood be okay? Sure. I think he will be fine. But if you can add Cordero, you should. Particularly if you can get him for a spare part of two. As for Lopez, he's not that much of an up-grade but what else could you get from the Nationals? Murton for Cordero's straight up's not going to fly. Cordero's worth more. Murton and Gallagher's too much for just Cordero.
by frustratedfan on Apr 1, 2008 6:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Patience is of the order
both in regards to the players on the roster and Jimbo pulling the trigger. Not too many deals done after the season begins, so starts a 60-day trial period.
I was all for some dealing to get done over the winter. Everyone here has seen my rants about acquiring 3 specific players. That time has past for one of them for sure, almost certainly for the 2nd and as for the third, we'll just have to see.
The Cubs are loaded with lots of young talent, let's see how that figures into the 1st two months.
by blackhawk24 on Apr 1, 2008 9:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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