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Baseball Is A Marathon, Not A Sprint

I know that quite a few BCB readers were at last night's 5-3 Cub loss to the Phillies in Philadelphia, and hopefully later today someone will make a FanPost with a few more details than I can write about from my television-viewing perspective.

The Cubs' five-game winning streak was snapped, but that's no reason to panic (I didn't have a chance to see the game threads last night, but I imagine there was quite a bit of teeth-gnashing going on). We are ten games into a 162-game season; Baseball Prospectus has the Cubs ranked third in their current "power ranking" ($), although I think that might be a little bit too high (and strange, because they have the Reds, Cubs and Brewers ranked 2nd, 3rd and 4th behind the Diamondbacks).

Last night's game, in my view, turned on the strange play in the fifth inning. With two out, a runner on first and the game tied 2-2, Greg Dobbs hit a ball that Kosuke Fukudome (playing CF for the first time) ran down and caught. But then:

"I did catch the ball," Fukudome said through an interpreter. "As I ran past Soriano, the tip of my glove hit his leg or torso. Once it popped out, there was nothing I could do."

Not only can Dome play baseball (although he failed to reach base for the first time), he can succinctly summarize what happened. Lou Piniella came out to argue that Dome held on to the ball long enough for it to be an out, and having seen the replay several times, I agree. However, the umpires didn't, and the Phillies took a 3-2 lead. Who knows what might have happened if that was ruled an out and the game stayed tied?

It didn't, and even though Soriano homered in the 6th to tie the game at 3, Z didn't have it last night, and that was evident in the first inning, after he was staked to a 2-0 lead on homers by Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez. He struggled into the 4th with that lead, then coughed it up, and wound up giving up all five Phillie runs and threw 107 pitches in six innings, recalling the bad Z from the first half of last year (only one walk, though).

Sean Marshall and Michael Wuertz kept it close, but the Cubs couldn't score off the Phillies bullpen. And frankly, this offense is in trouble if all it's going to score is on solo home runs. However, I liked the lineup selection last night (Fukudome 2nd), and Dome says it's fine with him. (That notes column also says Tim Lahey cleared waivers and has been returned to the Twins, so if the Cubs want him back, they'll have to make another trade.)

Today, however, is another day, one of the best things about baseball -- if you lose, you don't have to wait too long to make up for it. Rich Hill, however, will have to wait a while to make up for his bad start the other day -- the Cubs will use Monday's off day to skip his turn and he'll be in the bullpen till at least late next week.

Finally, Josh77 posted this link in his Minor League Wrap, but I thought it was good enough to mention on the front page -- former Cub (and Phillie) Doug Glanville, a thoughtful sort who has an Ivy League degree (from the University of Pennsylvania) wrote this excellent NY Times op-ed piece on the Roger Clemens situation, and his ideas on why he thinks Clemens acted the way he did, saying that ballplayers put a "protective shell" around them:

To those outside Clemens’s protective shell, he seems to be fighting ghosts. We must understand that he stopped listening to the outside world a long time ago, partly because ignoring those voices was integral to his survival. So if he seems out of touch, it’s probably because he is out of touch. To "clear his name," he has cast shadows over his immediate family and his closest confidantes with implications of their complicity in tainting his golden-egg status. All for a principle of honor that I am sure he firmly believes in because, like most players, he has been reinforcing it in his own head throughout his career out of self-preservation.

I think Glanville has hit the nail on the proverbial head here. Clearly, this isn't the way most ordinary human beings, you & me, relate to each other. But Roger Clemens has been out of touch with "ordinary" for so long, he doesn't know how to act when faced with reality.

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Comments

Display:

Isn't the rule...

that unless you drop the ball transitioning from the glove to the throwing hand, it doesn't count as an out?

If so, then the fact that Soriano's body knocked the ball loose makes how long Fukudome had the ball in his glove irrelevant.

by SouthernCub on Apr 12, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

By irrelevant, I mean...

that the call is pretty automatic. And the correct call is "no catch."

I could be wrong on the rule, but I believe that I've got the correct interpretation.

by SouthernCub on Apr 12, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to fault the umps on that call

It's really an impossible one to make with complete confidence. Fukudome's glove was shielded by Soriano. What they saw was the ball enter his glove on one side of Soriano, and by the time he reached the other side, it had popped out.

As for Glanville, it turns out he's a pretty decent writer. Who knew?

by gjdow on Apr 12, 2008 8:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who knew?

I did! That's not the first time he's written on the subject.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on Apr 12, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ramirez

For me the story line from last night is Ramirez. Sure the back-to back HRs in the first inning were nice, but how about the bad throws, the foul ball he lazily chased down and couldn't get to, and especially his act in the ninth inning. Down 2 runs desperate for base runners, he obviously chooses to swing for the fences instead and admires his long fly ball for 5 seconds and nearly gets himself caught at second. Sure we love the dramatic HRs, but why do we continue to look the other way with the constant selfish play from this guy? If he had a 21 on his back we'd all be screaming bloody murder.

For me poor defense in general lost this game, not a bad call, Zambrano losing his cool or anything else.

by LeeElia's15% on Apr 12, 2008 8:16 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

No question....A Ram infuriated me last night

...First, his shoulder is not 100%, he has an awkward angle on his throws, that looks like he is compensating, two bad ones last night. Second as you mention, the prolonged Manny Ramirez self adulation in the box in the 9th. When he was diving head first into second, he looked petrified that he had really blown that one.

I really hope that Dome rubs off a little on A Ram and Soriano. They could learn alot from his approach at the plate and in the field.

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on Apr 12, 2008 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rams throws have been pretty bad thus far.

Clearly, something is wrong there....

Cubs 2008 (6-4)
Home (3-3) | Road (3-1) | 1-Run Games (1-2) | Extra Innings (2-1)
Updated on April 11, 2008

by SackMan on Apr 12, 2008 8:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting point about the shoulder. I hadn't noticed anything awkward, but I'll look closer for that now.

Still doesn't excuse the rest of his baloney though.

by LeeElia's15% on Apr 12, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has there been any mention publicly? Shoulders are don't get better by themselves

And if true, it would prove DeRosa's value but let me make something clear and this seems to be so common for fans who often place some sort character issue to performance.

Ramirez is one of the most valuable players on this team, he is a difference maker, he has hit many , not occasionally, many power hits in the clutch. He is one of the offensive players who can carry this team for a couple of weeks and defensively he is good and improved last year.

He is not a five-tool player and he appears to get hurt each year. So is he not hustling or is he compensating? But stop this character thing about performance.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on Apr 12, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen.

I say implement a fine policy for any admirers to crack down on this ridiculous, "Booya! Look at that. I am aweso...oh, shi...RUN!" crap. Rami's far from the fastest guy on the planet, but to turn a potential standup double into a potential ninth-inning-down-2-second-out is unacceptable.

Kinda sorta an oaky afterbirth.

by neverAcquiesce on Apr 12, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to witness Lou's handling of ARam after last night

A guy that pulls those types of shenanigans has to tax every ounce of Lou's managerial experience. ARam looks thinner to me this year and I'd hoped that was a sign of commitment. I guess not. You know Lou wants to use him as third base umpire practice--but you also know--that he knows he can't. It's a real interesting situation.

If we had Roberts, the solution would be simpler. DeRo goes to third until ARam gets his shoulder and head straightened and we'd still have about enough offense to contend.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on Apr 12, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So ARAM will never be healthy will he.

How exactly did he hurt his "shoulder"? This isn't the first I've heard of it, but I guess I never thought it'd be an issue. He isn't getting on top of the ball and everything friggen sails on him. If it is effecting him to the point where he can't throw the ball 70 feet consistently and he can't chase down foul balls, put him on the DL. Put Derosa at 3rd and call up Patterson.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's face it folks...

...Ramirez is one of those guys that doesn't go after it 100% all the time. I wish it wasn't the case, but watching him for several years, that is part of what he is.

Soriano can be the same way. Neither he or Ramirez are full-throttle guys all the time. I don't blame Soriano for the Fukudome drop, but a more heady player would have had the presense of mind to get out of the way.

It's painful to watch, but virtually every team today has a player or two with loads of talent, that don't always give 100% on every play. It just happens to be one of things about today's game that is accepted, that I don't like.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

most of us aware of the fact that ARam will never give it 100%

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops

heck, he'll never give it 100% 2o% of the time, but my point was, his throws are really awful this year and if his "shoulder" injury really is effecting his throws, then maybe it's better to put him on the DL now and let him rest it.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't You Wish

We played for the Cubs? I love this team so damn much that I know I would give every ounce of my being on every play every day. I just hate the fact that the people with the talent couldn't care less about playing in the MLB, Im not saying that is the case with Ramirez but that does seem to be the case with a lot of players in the bigs

"We Are Not Fair Weather But Foul Weather Fans, Brothers In Arms In Streets and The Stands." -Eddie Vedder, Someday We'll Go All The Way

by ryanbrixenivy on Apr 12, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't get to see last night's game

As a matter of fact, I haven't seen a game all week, as I've been on the road for work internationally (the damn slingbox isn't working for some reason). But, I will say this: I'll take 5 W's in a row anytime. Every streak comes to an end.... but, we can start a new winning streak today!

So, like Al said.... it's a marathon, not a sprint. Let's take this ten games at a time, and win another 6 or 7 out of 10!

Cubs 2008 (6-3)
Home (3-3) | Road (3-0) | 1-Run Games (1-2) | Extra Innings (2-1)
Updated on April 10, 2008

by SackMan on Apr 12, 2008 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There... updated the sig!

Cubs 2008 (6-4)
Home (3-3) | Road (3-1) | 1-Run Games (1-2) | Extra Innings (2-1)
Updated on April 11, 2008

by SackMan on Apr 12, 2008 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you got 20 bux if you keep that sig updated throughout the year

and you have to post everyday.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BTW... about yesterday's line-up

While, I'm never fond of putting D Ward on the field (anywhere on the field for that matter), it was nice to see Lou's flexibility: playing Dome in CF, while getting Ward in the line-up.

Dome and Reed Johnson will give us some pretty good flexibility with the line-up. So, barring injury, I think our OF will be fine. It's the middle infield that has me worried. It's bothered me for 3 straight years now. Our starters at 2B and SS are average gloves at best... and on the bench, we don't even have a late inning defensive replacement as Fontenot and Cedeno are both butchers.

We absolutely need to make a deal this year, to either bring in a quality veteran SS for a post-season run, or at least add a top SS prospect to the mix who may be ready for the bigs in 2009.

Cubs 2008 (6-4)
Home (3-3) | Road (3-1) | 1-Run Games (1-2) | Extra Innings (2-1)
Updated on April 11, 2008

by SackMan on Apr 12, 2008 8:32 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to see the White Sox tank so they would have no reason to hang on to Orlando Cabrera. Maybe unload the farm for the unnamed and Cabrera at the deadline.

by dr stabbingworth on Apr 12, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand there's defenitely room for an upgrade at SS

but what's theriot done wrong in the field that's so bad? I've thought he's done a fine job in the field so far this year, and I never remember him booting balls or anything last year.

by cubsmania on Apr 12, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, he has drawn a few walks...

... which, if he could bump his batting average up to, say, .270, would give him a decent OBA.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan Theriot couldn't be hitting .270 right now...

...because it's impossible to get half of a base hit. But let's presume for a moment that he managed to find two more ground balls with eyes and got his batting average on the season so far to .285. This is what his batting line would look like:

.285/.359/.343

That would give him a .702 OPS, which is a step up from where he was last season but still pretty craptacular.

This is all toying around anyway - I have no reason to think that we have any more of an idea of how well Ryan Theriot is going to hit this season than we did before spring training started. (My belief in the abiding power of the sample size is preventing me from using his current slump to tee off on the largest round of Theriot bashing yet known to man - it wouldn't really be fair, as much as I think he doesn't rate to be an MLB starter.)

There has to be a point, however, at which you stop expecting Ryan Theriot to show some magical improvement into something other than an albatross of a shortstop. He is what he is.

[I could have bypassed this all by saying - he hit right around .270 last year, and he stunk on ice then, too.]

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brings up an interesting point, though.

The difference between hitting .229 and .285 at this point in the season for Theriot is two base hits. Since luck plays a huge role in a distribution of a player's singles, then we can't really credit the difference to anything but random chance. His BABIP is .267, which is low for him. (League average is .290; given his speed and LD%, I'd say it should be a bit higher than that.)

Just one reason among many that early-season stats can, and do, mislead you.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Theriot is not an awful shortstop defensively...

...but while he doesn't do anything too awful out in the field, it's hard to say he's a defensive asset. He has good hands and is very sure when it comes to fielding the ball. But he does not have very good range, and he has a weak throwing arm for the position.

And it's easier to remember the plays he makes cleanly than it is to recognize and remember the plays he doesn't make because of his lack of range, and then to remember than another shortstop would have made that play.

Again, I think that he's right around average defensively at shortstop. I just don't think that at all compensates for how poor of a hitter he is.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's not the strength of our team

but he's not a bad player to be your weakest....or second weakest (pie is right there). I think his at bats have been a lot better recently...working more counts like he did last year when he was hitting well. So I wouldnt be surprised if he has a good stretch coming up. also, he does more than his numbers say for the team....he was big in the pittsburgh series, he got on base and stole a few bags late in the game and always seems to be right there during a rally.

by cubsmania on Apr 13, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Rammy needs some time off.

If his shoulder is really bothering him he needs to take some time off to let it heal while the season is still young. We will need him at 100% down the stretch and even into the playoffs. I remember when Derosa filled in for him last year and he held down the fort pretty well. I can even remember a few nice defensive plays.

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 12, 2008 8:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I know I know

He has two very costly errors already this season....

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 12, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry Glanville--we hardly knew ye

Wow-- the number of people with long term MLB experience and the ability to so exquisitely compile and pen the Clemens situation has to be less than the proverbial number of digits on a human hand...really impressive and insightful!

My film reviews: my son and I intended to see the Iowa Cubs take on the Sounds in Nashville's opening night yesterday, but alas, the weather was unkind. We ended up going to see 10,000 BC and 21 instead.

I'd been told that 10,000BC was disappointing. I disagree. It was at least what I expected and more. It has tons of Computer Generated Graphics and not just with prehistoric beasts-- it has plot lines that don't pass the giggle test. BUT..it was cool in many ways and seemed to imply/meld another significant era in history with the early man theme. I can say no more but to tell you that in scope this film is of epic proportions with the magnitude of the scenes and sets.

21: As usual--Kevin Spacey and Lawrence Fishburne were stellar. This isn't an Oscar type movie--but it's darn entertaining and real good.

Fukudome/Youtube: There must be 10 different home movies of the opening day HR by Dome on Youtube. (try a search with Opening day Fukudome)A couple of them simultaneously make me smile and make my neck hair stand up every time I see them. Perhaps my favorite though is called tribute to Kosuke Fukudome and is comprised of high quality opening day still shots overlaying the song "Winning it All" by the Outfield--really, really good work by someone and so inspirational.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on Apr 12, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I tried putting the URL on fanshots--

but think I screwed it up. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1JohHsf2ug
Searching Opening Day Fukudome gets you close --then the one entitled Cubs Opening Day is the still shot/music combo I mentiond--love it!

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on Apr 12, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fixed that.

It doesn't show up in the thumbnail, but when you enter the FanShot, it should be there.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jerry Glanville?

The football coach?

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on Apr 12, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oopsie Daisy--ole Jerry doesn't write as well

Nothing like having your pants fall down publicly...sorry Doug

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on Apr 12, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love the Glanville Column Too

hear he is going to be regular op-ed columnist for the NY Times during the baseball season, hopefully he can provide more of this kind of insight.

by lance dickson on Apr 12, 2008 9:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's really good news.

Glanville's a really smart guy, well-spoken, and has the "insider's knowledge" of baseball.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else get the sneaky suspicion

that Felix could be playing in Iowa withing the next couple weeks? Especially if Murton keeps hitting the cover off the ball and DOme doesn't mind alternating between CF and RF.

That catch that he had and dropped, would've been one hell of a catch and I don't think too many everyday CF's would've caught that ball.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 9:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it's a possibility

but I would like to see Pie given a solid chance to figure out major league pitching. There is so much upside to this guy. Just imagine a Soriano, Pie, Fukudome outfield (speed, anyone?) with each one contributing at the plate.

Of course, the downside is, how long do you risk the season trying to find out if Pie is going to hit.

"Confidence is what you have before you understand the problem." Woody Allen

by BlueSox on Apr 12, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie

I have been all for letting Pie sink or swim in center but what Lou apparentely won't tolerate is his approach at the plate. He looks lost up there and is having very few "good" at bats.

Similar situation for Hill, I bet Lou feels they are not listening to his advice.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Apr 12, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disconcerting thing to me with Pie

Is how badly he's struggling against Righties. He really does look clueless up there and maybe the best thing for him is to go back down to Iowa and rebuild some of that confidence. He surely can't do that sitting on the bench.

I know he's proven he can hit AAA pitching but that isn't the reason why I'd send him down. I'd send him down to get consistent ab's and get some confidence back.

I do agree though that he needs a couple more weeks and more starts but like BlueSox said, there's a fine line of letting a player develope at this level and hurting this team's chances of winning everyday. Johnson has already proven he can be an adequate replacement. There's a lot of pressure on Pie to perform and help this team win and he hasn't handled it very well so far.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I've wanted him to get a chance but he is being so stubborn. I wouldn't be as impatient with his .182 if he was actually having decent at bats but he isn't, he is giving away AB's. Soto's average in the first week wasn't great but he was hitting the ball hard. The game-winning hit was the first time he cut down his swing a bit and didn’t try and pull the ball. I think he should be sent to Japan not AAA to learn a little more about quality AB's.

Maybe Lou should just say to Pie you have 2 weeks of everyday starts no matter who is pitching, all I want to see is a good approach.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Apr 12, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give it about another month...

....and they will make a decision whether Pie can help the major league team, or whether he needs to go back to AAA to get more playing time.

Pie is a good defender and has great speed, but I am not sure his upside as a hitter, is as high as many want to believe.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A month of what?

The playing time he has been getting lately I don't think is really helping him. He looks as lost as ever. Either give him an actually chance or bring up Fuld.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Apr 12, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A month of getting partial...

...playing time. If he shows improvement at the plate, he will stick, if he doesn't, he goes down.

The only way he gets more playing time (say 15 of the next 20 games) is to show improvement. Folks, this isn't the AAA team, he is going to have to show improvement with limited playing time, and thats just the way it is.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Catch-22

How do you show improvement if you don't get playing time? It's hard to get hits anchored to the bench.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A lot of young players have...

...to go through this Al, without playing full-time.

Sometimes it's not that you aren't producing, it's how you aren't producing, Pie seems far from getting it.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see your point.

I just think it's way too early for him to be benched, not get regular playing time, etc. As pointed out elsewhere, there are quite a number of established stars who are hitting worse than Pie is. You don't see David Ortiz getting benched.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again....

...I am not advocating benching Pie. Let him play about half the games against RH Lou feels he can have success against. If he is going to make it, he needs to slowly build his confidence level and have fewer of those days where he is overmatched.

Also, I realize even very good hitters can have a a stretch where they are hitting .180, but there is a difference here. Good hitters don't look as bad as Pie does game in game out, and that is what Piniella is focusing on, not whether he is getting hits. He is looking for any hint that he is making the adjustments, that will allow him to hit .250 or so.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The next week or so...

... not real conducive to his playing time. The Cubs are facing lefties the next 2 days, then will face more next weekend when the Pirates come to town.

Let him play the entire series vs. the Reds, who have all RH starters, and see what happens.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

whyyyyyyyyy

are you dead set on defending pie??? my gosh neifi perez and jacque jones play horribly and there ran out of town. pie cant hit whatsoever at all and he's constantly defended. i dont get it.

Go Cubbies Go!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on Apr 12, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess...

and he has put himself in this position but he is going to the plate thinking if I don't get a hit I might not be playing, maybe he is a "mental midget" to quote Rivera but he needs to know he is going to get a legit chance because it isn't working this way.

I love the way Lou holds people accountable but sometimes his trigger may be too quick.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Apr 12, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At age 22, my baseball hero...

...Ron Santo hit .227(1962). The next year he made his first All-Star team and was 8th in the MVP vote. That same year (1963) a 24 year old named Brock struck out 122 times while hitting .258 and was then traded in 1964.

I have never been convinced that Felix will be a good MLB hitter, but he needs a prolonged opportunity. Without it, he could be ruined; he's been jacked up and down from Iowa to Chicago enough. Let him play awhile longer--at least another 5 weeks or so until the weather turns. Everyone knows what Matt Murton can do; we really don't on Pie yet.

This is still a team who's core strength is pitching--weakening the "D" may be a poor idea.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on Apr 12, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But where would you play Murton?

He would be another OF that tears up AAA pitching and rides the bench.

by crazymountain on Apr 12, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton has decent numbers against righties

So he could play RF against righties with DOme in CF.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Murton

does not have the arm to play RF

by crazymountain on Apr 12, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You lose some defense ofcourse with Murton

in RF but he did play 41 games there last year.

But Murton can hit.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So can Ward

but he couldn't reach a ball that Fukudome would have caught...and that cost us runs.

by crazymountain on Apr 12, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ward should never play RF

ever again.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point is

that defense is more important. Look at the ball Fukudome "dropped". His glove hit Soriano and the ball came out. If that is Pie, the glove is on the right hand and hits nothing, probably getting the out call and out of the inning. Nobody's fault here, just making an observation. If Pie plays, two pivotal plays would probably be made, changing the game drastically. Without Pie, our defense suffers......

by crazymountain on Apr 12, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie needs to start full time

or he can't reach his potential... Wait, isn't that what they say about Murton?

by LT on Apr 12, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's great...

...and did those Cub's teams have aspirations of making it to the World Series?

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Th eams in the early '60's

definitely had the luxury of playing struggling young players since they were going nowhere. But they did NOT have the luxury of trading a HOF'er due to short sightedness.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on Apr 12, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And I really have a hard time seeing

this "upside" people talk about. Yes, he's a very good defensive centerfielder but he's never shown me anything with the bat. as has already been mentioned, he looks completely lost up there. I don't see how sending him down is necesssarily going to help but, one clutch hit aside, he's been killing us at the plate.
Lou has definitely lost what little confidence he had with him.
This idea about letting him play through his growing pains sounds good but, if we hope to contend, we just don't have room for an automatic out right now.
And, as much as I hate to sound cynical, the Cubs record for evaluating and/or developing young talent hasn't exactly been stellar over the last several years.

by bluekoolaide on Apr 12, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LSA!!!

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Contending

Are we really going to contend with Reed Johnson as our everyday centerfielder? We have to have some players respond if we want to have a chance, somethings must work out. ie wood, pie and demp.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Apr 12, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

A career 282/344/410/754 bat with decent speed and a solid glove is entirely acceptable out of a CF. The Red Sox had a Championship season last year with Coco Crisp playing CF to the tune of 526 ABs. He hit 268/330/382/712.

Meanwhile Felix has a 182/217/182/399 this year and a 215/271/333/604 last year.

Worst of all, he is flailing out there. He is guessing fastball and getting way out front of everything. He gets frozen on breaking balls that start high and drop in the zone, and swings at them when they start in the zone and drop down out of the zone.

He continues to employ a Soriano-esque upper cut swing, and shows no signs of shortening up or leveling his swing for situations like 2 strikes. He doesn't use his speed to bunt for hits.

Actually, his entire hitting persona is an attempt to be a Soriano. Which shouldnt be surprising since they are good friends and were roommies last year (and maybe this?). But that is not what we need from him, nor is it his best chance of success as a ball player.

The Cubs should keep him home during the next road trip and have the hitting coach work with him to get his swing flattened out, away from Fonzie's influence.

by californiachicagoan on Apr 12, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the point the rest of us are making is...

... how can you make that judgment after a week and a half?

And Pie shouldn't be judged by past failures. Give him two months, at least.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats vs Eyes

If you are going by stats you need more sample size, agreed. But you can evaluate a player by watching him as well. His approach at the plate. The quality of his at bats. The solidness of what contact he does make. Pie is hitting awfully right now.

And allowing a guy to repeat his mistakes over and over does NOT help! It ingrains the wrong habits. Pull him and get his approach corrected, before you ruin him.

by californiachicagoan on Apr 12, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you expect him to be able to make the necessary adjustments...

...to hit major-league pitching in Iowa? He needs to be around major league pitching in order to adjust to it.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HAHAHAHAHA

I want that mat!

SOMEONE SHOOT THAT DAMN PARROT!!!

by Keystone80435 on Apr 12, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Upside

This is when players have shown the ability to hit well throughout their progression of the minors. Pie has done this. His numbers in his progression yield high upside. Just give him some time. He may not have it and be the proverbial AAAA player, but you cannot make that judgment this early.

by okiecubbie on Apr 12, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A marathon indeed

Carry this .600 winning percentage out over a full season and we have 97 wins. Many if not most of us would find that a strong positive, yes?

by MN exile on Apr 12, 2008 9:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely...

going into a panic after every bad play or lost game can only result in a year of frustration and disappointment...it would be like '04 all over again...

"You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace." -- Ernie Banks

by MississippiMalaise on Apr 12, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed!

A .600 win eprcentage would get us to the playoffs for sure.

where in MN are you exiled?

"You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you, so-called "Arthur King," you and all your silly English K-nig-hts." - French Knight

by gwood on Apr 12, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stuff

I'm unsure about Fukudome in the 2 hole only because A-Ram is consistently swinging for the fences. Right now with people on base and A-Ram up I have little hope. Now that can change in about 2 games but it is nice having Dome up when you know he will probably make contact. Once A-Ram heats up a little then I would feel better putting Dome 2 and I guess Soto 5.

Concerning A-Ram’s throws I hate when he drops his arm down and his throws usually bring D-Lee into the runner. I still get nervous when D-Lee has to go after the ball when a collision at first is possible.

Overall we are in good shape and will be fine. The only problem is we have a whole lot of starting pitching but for the most part they are number 4 and 5 starters, I have been saying it all off season we are a 1A type starter away from being true contenders. In Jim I trust.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on Apr 12, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

OT for Al:

Hey Al, regretting taking the DBacks 4th in the West yet? I know it's early, but like I said, a lot of those kids like Reynolds, Jackson, Drew and UPTON are only going to be better this year and that Offense that sputtered last year, will be much better.

They've won 7 in a row against the Rockies (3), Dodgers (3) and the Rockies again last night. Like I said in December, they're the best team in the NL. It's early I know, but they're an exciting bunch to watch. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Cub fan first and always will be but I do enjoy watching them play. There's quite a contrast between the Cubs and the DBacks and the way the 2 teams approach the game. Not saying one is right and one is wrong, but they both have their unique style's.

The loss of Davis is a blow though. He'll be out for 6 weeks.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the D-backs are playing over their heads.

Yes, they have some good players. Also, that's a tough division. The Giants are horrid and the other four teams are going to be beating up on them all year -- four of five there could finish over .500.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You'll come around soon enough

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the record...

Last night was their 4th in a row against the Rockies...

All things great in 2008!!

by By Santo's Grace on Apr 12, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

After today it'll be 5.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pat Burrell: Cubs Killer

While every loss is disappointing, last night's defeat didn't bother me too much. Despite a pretty mediocre-looking line, Big Z pitched pretty well early on. If anything, Burrell's no-doubter to left field seemed to really set Carlos off. (The face he made walking off the field at inning's end was pretty dang scary.)

And, speaking of Burrell, let's be honest -- he beat the Cubs last night, not the Phillies. The guy goes two for four with a homer and double and three RBI. That hurts.

What's more, as Len and Bob mentioned, this guy is a bonafied Cubs killer. His career offensive stats against our guys: .312/.425/.590 for a 1.015 OPS. Getting through the rest of this series could mean pitching around Burrell -- especially in key situations.

Last, about Dome's dropped catch, I hope he didn't take any guff for that play in the game thread or anywhere else. That play was a great example of how better defenders tend to commit more errors (even though that play was not considered an error) than mediocre ones. Dome ran a LONG way for that ball and, if Soriano had stayed out of his flight path, Kosuke may have held on to it.

In any case, I've written off last night's game as a competitve loss and am looking forward to the rest of the series. Thanks to that hard-fought sweep of the Pirates, the Cubs need to win just one of these games against the Phils to return home with a 4-3 road trip under their belts. And that ain't no bad thing.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 12, 2008 10:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's funny

I posted Burrell's numbers against the Cubs in last night's game thread and how he has entered the pantheon of Cub killers. I wasn't watching the Cubs feed, I just know that he was a Cubs killer and looked at his splits. His OBP against the Cubs compared to his OBP against other teams, isn't even close.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good call

He's 1 for 5 against Lilly FWIW.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

Career splits against lefties: .277/.413/.540 .821 OPS
Against righties: .254/.353/.468 .953 OPS

The Cubs can't let this guy beat them again.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 12, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction

I have the numbers reversed -- the bottom line is against lefties, the top against righties. Sorry.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 12, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You had it right the first time.

" I want to point something out in the quickly-becoming-tiresome Old Media vs. Bloggers debate: most stuff sucks. All stuff. In all forms. Most books suck. Most movies suck. Most magazines suck. Most trees likely suck if you get to know them. Fish, bugs, various metals -- they all probably mostly suck". - FJM 4/6/8

by lemon20pie on Apr 12, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You switched the OPS's

His OPS vs LHP is .953, and vs RHP it is .821.

by gjdow on Apr 12, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aramis...

I know it drives everyone crazy when Aramis pulls the kind of stuff he pulled last night on admiring his double, but the fact is that he is a huge producer for us. He also brings us a kind of swagger that this team has lacked.

Take a look at the Red Sox, back to back World Series champs; They have Manny, Ortiz, Beckett and even Papelbon who play the game with a flair and even a bit of cockiness. I know this may not always seem like "the right way to play the game", but having a bunch of nice citizens doesn't always lead to results. I wish our team had a little bit more of an edge sometimes.

That's my little rant for the day; Aramis drives me nuts sometimes too, but let's give him a little break.

"The one that invent the light tried 2,000 times and finally he did it, we have light...I don't want to spend 2,000 times to win Opening Day" Carlos Zambrano

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 12, 2008 11:36 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There's a difference between cockiness and laziness

Aramis almost got himself thrown out because he stood there and watched his ball smack against the wall.

When you drive one, you RUN like any other hit, until the ump signals a home run. Anything else, is taking a dumb risk.

by gjdow on Apr 12, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All I'm saying...

Is he's not the only one in baseball to do this. Manny Ramirez, Pujols, Ortiz, Fielder... a lot of good hitters in the league exhibit this kind of stuff. It looks really bone-headed at times (like last night), but Aramis is OUR bonehead and we should cut him some slack.

"The one that invent the light tried 2,000 times and finally he did it, we have light...I don't want to spend 2,000 times to win Opening Day" Carlos Zambrano

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 12, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

When those guys mess up, it's at worst neutral and at best beneficial to the Cubs.

When Ramirez messes up, it's bad for the Cubs.

You're asking me to root for the opposition. =P

by gjdow on Apr 12, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not asking you to do anything...

I'm TELLING you that Aramis' actions are not some rare phenomena that only he exhibits. It is widespread among successful teams and players across the league.

I'm asking you to root for OUR 3rd baseman, who happens to be the 2nd or 3rd best 3rd baseman in the NL, despite his occasional lapses of judgement.

"The one that invent the light tried 2,000 times and finally he did it, we have light...I don't want to spend 2,000 times to win Opening Day" Carlos Zambrano

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 12, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, he gets

no slack. When he hits the ball he should just run regardless. He needs to get over his loving to watch where the ball goes. It's ridiculous and I hope Lou chewed his ass out last night.

by sue369 on Apr 12, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick notes from Phillie

Got limited internet time.
First , shockingly few Cub fans versus almost everyother
road game I have been to including last summer in Phillie.
I guess most wait for better weather
I don't have time to go over all the game posts but with
two of the outfielders out of position, it was not pretty
( actually Ward is out of position ANYWHERE in the outfield) . This was my first game of the season and the
thing that struck me more than anything which I know
has been ranted on here for a LONG time, is that SORIANO CAN NOT HIT LEADOFF. The contrast between him and Victorino was startling. The Phillies won that game because Victorino worked the count till he either got
a pitch he liked or a walk. He made Z throw a lot of pitches
early even if they failed to score in the 1st. You simply can not have a leadoff hitter who does not work the count. Solo
home runs won't do it. I don't care if he is unhappy. He was unhappy when he was moved to the outfield. Victorino
was the key to the game even if that is not evident in the box score.

Nice city. Rain on and off all day. Off shopping

Buying a CHEAP seat tonight.

PS Jaime Moyer is really good about signing autographs
Must have signed 50 before the game.

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 12, 2008 11:38 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Playing Ward in right....

and Fukudome in center really hurt the Cubs last night.

by Imtrejo on Apr 12, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bruce Levine on 1000 talking about Pie...

says that he think Lou needs to get him out of the 8th spot so he will see more strikes. Put him 2nd and no one will be throwing him junk with DLee Aram and Fukudome behind him. We all know the guy has the ability to hit.

I agree with Bruce, put him 2nd.

by Rezze21 on Apr 12, 2008 11:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Is that really the relevant correlation?

In the AL, there is virtually no difference between the 8th and 9th hitters- ref. 2007 OPS: 8th.-.665 vs 9th-.669. In the NL there is a real difference- ref. 2007 OPS: 8th.-.703 vs 9th- .510. So couldn't it be said that in the NL there is a far greater incentive to pitch around the #8 hitter than in the AL?

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Apr 12, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but if they were actually pitching around the 8 hitters more...

...and the fact that they were doing it was so obvious that everyone watching the games knew it, wouldn't you expect there to be an increase in the number of walks?

But there isn't. My personal theory is that you don't pitch around #8 hitters in the NL because they're not very good, and so they can't really hurt you much on a pitch in the zone anyway. So you make them earn their base, which is something they're not very good at doing.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

...it's true there are circumstances where the 8 hole guy is going to get nothing to hit (usually with 2 outs and men on base), but that does not happen everytime your 8 hole guy comes up.

There are plenty of times a pitcher will go after the 8 hole hitter because he wants the pitcher to leadoff the next inning and there are other times when you will get decent pitches to hit.

Scouts pick up real quickly on whether a hitter can be retired with pitches out of the zone, and Pie (so far) has the exact same scouting report as Corey Patterson had a few years back. Now, it's up to him to make adjustments.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

There will be times when Pie will be pitched around with the pitcher on deck behind him, but it's certainly not every at-bat. And guys who fit his profile (high SLG, low OBP) seem to get pitched around more in RBI situations anyway, so it's something he's going to have to adapt to if he is going to have an MLB career.

Now, I'm more bullish on him making those adjustments than some other folks, but it's up to him to actually do it.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok- I'm not arguing so much as trying to understand.

So, other than when the NL 8th batter is Intentionally walked, he is generally not being pitched around?

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on Apr 12, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right.

IBB are obviously excluded - we know that #8 hitters are more likely to be intentionally walked with the pitcher hitting behind them, and that's not really relevant to the quality of pitches to hit.

With two outs in the inning and nobody on, you HAVE to pitch to the #8 hitter, optimally. Why? Because if you can get him out - and that is the most likely outcome, after all - you have the pitcher leading off the next inning. That is absolutely the best scenario when it comes to shutting down an offense - you get out of one inning without giving up runs, and then you start the opposing team in a hole when their real hitters come to bat.

With one out in the inning and nobody on, again, if you can get the #8 hitter out, you can generally end the inning on the pitcher. Give the #8 guy a free base, and then you're facing the leadoff man with one on and two outs, and you're starting to play with a bit of fire.

We can go on with this, but the quality of the #8 hitter is generally low enough that there's no reason to pitch around them - the expected outcome of pitching to them is an out, and they're not enough of a home run threat to make you worry about that.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree, have been saying that

Pie hitting 8th is a waste of his abilities. No protection, he sees junk and presses too hard. I'm sure he sees all the press (Rosenburg: Pie, your plane is waiting.) saying that he is an abject failure. He needs to play, and play where he has the best chance to succeed.

by crazymountain on Apr 12, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Pie could be a 2 hitter... yet.

But try him batting 7th with Theriot 8th. That might work.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what about batting him 9th? Pull a Yost/LaRussa...

...seriously, he would be protected by Sori and when he gets on base, Soriano might see different pitches than the junk he's getting now. Not to mention the speed those two would have with Dome or Lee coming up...

I doubt Lou would do this...but a thought nonetheless

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on Apr 12, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just thinking the same thing.

Why not try it? Couldn't hurt.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Given our current lineup...

...the ideal hitter to do this with is Theriot. This is why they use Kendall in that capacity in Milwaukee - the differential between Theriot's OBP and SLG means that Theriot is only useful getting on base ahead of someone else; putting the nearly automatic out of the pitcher ahead of him hurts his production a lot less.

Meanwhile, Pie's a guy whose value as a hitter is mostly from his ability to drive in runners ahead of him - he has plus power and little on-base skill. He needs to have runners on-base ahead of him in order to have any real value in a lineup.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hitting 9th certainly seems to be working for Kendall... .483/.515/.655

..its early, but I like the concept..

I am looking for the Neyer blog piece on this and if I remember correctly he seemed to think it might be worth a win or two a season, if used for 162 games.

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on Apr 12, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to LMAO when a pitcher pitches around Z to get to Pie

not likely to happen, but it would be funny

"Every team will win 60 games, every team will lose 60 games, it's what the team does in the other 42 games that decides the season."

by flachimesa on Apr 12, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really think you may be...

...overrating his abilities as a hitter. I understand he is gifted physically, but that often does not correlate to hitting major league pitching.

Pie has about 200 major league AB's that have not looked very promissing. I have no idea why a manager would want to put that player in the 2 hole if their number one priority was to win games. Maybe, you try him a few games in the 7 hole, but I fail to understand why a team wanting to win, would do that.

Many many young players have to show their potential starting at the bottom of the order and Pie is not the first guy to have to prove himself. If they don't give him any pitches to hit, then don't be afraid to take a walk. After a few of those, he will establish that he won't swing at everything and he will start to see a few good pitches.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously Pie needs to make adjustments...

...to succeed as a major league hitter; he's able to get by on raw talent alone in the minors, which he simply can't do when he steps up a level.

That said, I really don't think there's much he can learn in AAA - he needs to be challenged to make those adjustments. The only way Pie is going to develop is for him to be given a chance to sink or swim at the major-league level.

And yes, there is a chance of failure involved there. And the Cubs knew that in the offseason, and seemingly committed to it anyway. A full season of Reed Johnson is not an acceptable alternative.

by cwyers on Apr 12, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loud, sustained applause.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

It's either sink or swim time for Pie. Time to take of the floaties and see what he could do with consistent ABs, no more babying.

"The one that invent the light tried 2,000 times and finally he did it, we have light...I don't want to spend 2,000 times to win Opening Day" Carlos Zambrano

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 12, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100%...

...there may have been a time during ST, where Hendry and Piniella had to decide whether they wanted to get Roberts, or go full bore to upgrade CF because it was to tough a task to get quality at both spots. It appears as though they thought they would get Roberts and felt that would strengthen the lineup enouph to live with Pie if he struggled.

Now, I think that has changed a little bit. Certainly, they want Pie to step up offensively, so they can toss him out there 100+ games in CF, but I think they feel they can't be quite as patient, without the other ingrediant they may have been looking for.

Over the next 20-30 games and depending on their position in the standing, they will probably make an evaluation of where they are at, and if Pie stays, goes down or they have to get aggressive with a trade.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on Apr 12, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reed Johnson bashers

Amazing how up in arms people get about beating up one Cub, but have no problem beating up another. Reed Johnson has demonstrated capable fielding, patient hitting, hustle on the base paths. He has been nothing but solid, and yet he gets denigrated here repeatedly. His career numbers and his last healthy season's numbers are both superior to last year's CF for the World Series Champs, and yet "Reed Johnson is not an acceptable alternative". Wrong.

by californiachicagoan on Apr 12, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

MISTAKE!

Pie sees junk because he swings at junk. No one is pitching around a guy with a 600 OPS last year and a 400 one this year. Do NOT move him up in the order.

by californiachicagoan on Apr 12, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glanville

A few years ago Glanville got into a little hot water about some things he said about major league baseball players. He said there is a bias against guys who have college degrees, it's interesting that he is approaching this subject as an outsider.

by Imtrejo on Apr 12, 2008 11:55 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The thing I like about Glanville is that he can make a good argument without spewing crackers at whoever is listening, unlike Bud.

by dr stabbingworth on Apr 12, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like corn dogs.

SOMEONE SHOOT THAT DAMN PARROT!!!

by Keystone80435 on Apr 12, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Haven't had one of them in over 10 years

I don't have fond memories, either.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on Apr 12, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats a damn shame.

SOMEONE SHOOT THAT DAMN PARROT!!!

by Keystone80435 on Apr 12, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you serious....

we put up with corey patterson for 7 years people!!!so to send pie to AAA after 10 games is ridiculous in my mind!!let the kid play!!like Al said.he won't improve if he is on the bench!

by goatstew on Apr 12, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hill To Pitch From The Bullpen

I just saw on the cubs website that they are moving Rich Hill to the bullpen. Hopefully he can get his control back, it worked when they sent him down to the minors and then brought him back up so we will see

"We Are Not Fair Weather But Foul Weather Fans, Brothers In Arms In Streets and The Stands." -Eddie Vedder, Someday We'll Go All The Way

by ryanbrixenivy on Apr 12, 2008 2:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's only a temporary move...

... because of the off day on Monday. They're skipping his turn, he could be available for relief tomorrow, and then he'll start either Thursday against the Reds or Friday against the Pirates.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 12, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats the solution for Hill!

I've got it! I'm a damn genius! Give Hill the Ankiel treatment. Move him to CF and turn him into a 30hr guy. I'm brilliant.....

SOMEONE SHOOT THAT DAMN PARROT!!!

by Keystone80435 on Apr 12, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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