Did anyone else notice?
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Apr 12, 2008 11:56 AM CDT
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PrintI was very impressed by the way Geovany Soto put his head down and ran as hard as he could after hitting his homer the other night against the Mets, even though he had to have had a pretty good idea that the ball was going out. Quite a refreshing contrast to the guys who stand and admire balls that just make it to the wall or barely clear it. Sure, there's no doubt about some homers and I can't fault a guy for admiring a 500 foot bomb, but if there's any doubt at all just start running. Period. If the ball does indeed go out, watch it on video in the clubhouse after the game. I'm not naming names, but there are a couple of veterans, including one who's one of my favorite Cubs players of recent years, (hey, nobody's perfect, but it still bugs me) who obviously could learn from Geo's example.
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The team doesn't have
a major league SS on the roster, aside from Dempster and Zambrano, the starting pitching has looked inept, Bob Howry can't get the ball over the plate and Lou has decided Pie can't hack it after 10 whole games, yet there are fans obsessing about batter's box etiquette. Unbelievable.
Majoring in minors, folks. Majoring in minors.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
yet....
Were 6-4 and not playing badly at all.....cool down a bit brother, take a deep breathe and realize that we are gonna be ok....this team although can use some tinkering, will be just fine and make the necessary moves when the time is right.
All things great in 2008!!
by By Santo's Grace on Apr 12, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
The point is,
there are more important things for fans to fret about than what a player does after he hits the ball, especially considering our starting SS can't hit the ball. Moreover, these players have done this now for years, so it should come as no surprise when they do it this year. It should be old hat by now.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 12, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
validation and as I said last year applies this year, roster not set yet.
Theriot is not a starting SS as the league has learned to pitch to him getting him to fly out too much and keeping the ball inside as he really likes to punch the ball to right field. He could be a good utility/late inning role player with his speed and versatility. Actually I think a platoon system at 2B with his LA cohort Fontenot might have some possibilities. That still leaves an open spot at SS.
Possibly Lou is doing what HOF manager's do, they take the pile of clay they are given and they care less about the contracts, press and use what power they have each day and fill out the lineup cards and tell players where to play and when. Sometimes it is an emotional wrestling match, but he wins if the club wins and the individuals submit to the team's need.
As I see it Lou experimenting with Kosuke at CF and in the #2 hole in the lineup could be a future omen for the next 40 or so games. That would leave RF open where Lou might simply pencil in DeRosa for awhile and play Theriot/Fontenot at 2B, leaving Cedeno for now at SS.
It is said that Loretta will be available but he is another super utility player, yet he might be an upgrade over Theriot at SS. The real player to make an inexpensive acquisition is Vizquel who is recovering from arthroscopic knee surgery allowing the Giants to install a rookie SS who is doing better than expected but Vizquel was a FA signing he is not available for trade until 6/15..(without consent) yet his contract is interesting where he needs to play in 140 games to guarantee $5.2M for next year. With Babcock showing well and Vizquel still not going to rehab in the minors he might not be back until May 1st at best....meaning that the season could be below 140 already.
The other possible is seeing how Patterson is doing in AAA where he might be a fair option in RF, but then again is Pie is sent down would the Cubs entertain bringing up Murton in RF?
Either way Piniella seems to have less patience this year than last. Skipping Hill (and possibly Marquis, though it is said he is on sick leave, I wonder if MLB contracts have sick day pay?) is showing the hand of his power early on.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
i don't think
he was talking about etiquette. He was just saying to always play hard and be aware. For example, in yesterday's game, aramis stood a couple seconds at the plate and slowly jogged to first on what he thought was a HR (in the 9th?). It wasn't and, though the result turned out the same, he had to really turn it on and make a dangerous slide when it should have been an easy standup double.
I notice this from soto, fuku and theriot, and it's really nice. Theriot still sucks tho
So what?
At this point, we know Rammy does this kind of crap. Yet, every year, we kvetch and moan about it. It's pointless banter. He's going to do it, and we're going to live with it, and you know what else? If he puts up a .300/30/100 line, he can stare at whatever he wishes.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 12, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
my point wasn't to say ramirez sucks,
but to point out the original poster wasn't talking about plate etiquette. He merely meant it is nice to see hustle. Obviously, Ramirez is a great player, but wouldn't he be better if he does decide to hustle more? But I don't want to direct blame to Ramirez specifically, I was just using a current example.
Anyway, people should always "kvetch and moan" about fundamentals, like always playing hard. It something that will always make you at least a little better. It's how Theriot can even be considered worthy to be a marginal bench player in the majors.
Cubs Rule!
Some people
do want to talk about it and that is their right. If you don't want to then skip over the post.
I dk
if he has ever hit a HR against the Mets in his career, let alone last week.
"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...
He won't have long to wait...
... to hit one vs. the Mets, they're in town 4/21.
Obviously, he meant the Pirates.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I was confused
I thought I missed a game or something, I got scared for a moment
"We Are Not Fair Weather But Foul Weather Fans, Brothers In Arms In Streets and The Stands." -Eddie Vedder, Someday We'll Go All The Way
by ryanbrixenivy on Apr 12, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I meant Pirates
Sorry about that, so please put away the tar and feathers. And yes, I was pointing out something that has undoubtedly been discussed many times, but my main intention was to praise Soto for playing the game hard and playing it right. Also, I think very highly of Aramis and have defended him in the past against people who accused him of dogging it to first base when he was actually playing with nagging leg injuries. I just think it's not too much to expect players to run out any fly ball that has a chance of staying in the park. There's no excuse for a guy who hits the ball 400 feet and winds up on first. ecbc understands exactly what I'm talking about.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Apr 12, 2008 12:40 PM CDT reply actions
in 2005
the white sox won the world series by hustling all year long, so is it really that un important? it could make the difference between a single and a double but it also changes the attitude of the whole team. Just think if the whole team played like soto or theriot. we would be extremely tought to beat.
"Chicago Cubs fans are ninety percent scar tissue."- George F. Will
No, that's not how the White Sox won the World Series.
They won it with outstanding starting pitching and by blasting home runs (that "Ozzieball" smallball thing was a myth).
Hustling is great. But in the end, talent wins.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
true
but nothing says hustling and talent can't go together.
True.
But hustling alone won't win games for you.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
I know
it's just that I don't want people somehow drawing a conclusion that its gotta be hustle vs talent. True, while in "talent with no hustle vs hustle with no talent", talent wins, hustle and talent combined is the best and its what ballplayers should strive for.
The two aren't mutually exclusive
It's the same thing with renaming Wrigley. Somehow, if you care about keeping the park named Wrigley Field, you don't care about winning. Or if you care about ads placed everywhere at the ballpark, you don't care about winning. Just because ballplayers have talent doesn't mean they can't hustle.
"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."
by markleonette on Apr 13, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions
If the whole team played like Ryan Theriot...
...we would lose 100 games. If by "played like" you meant "hit an endless stream of weak line drives and ground balls." Or "was replacement level." I'd rather have people who were good at baseball.
Ha, agreed
I can hit ground balls to the second baseman all day too.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
Aram...
doesn't hit too many cheap homers.so he admires his work for a second.......i say so what!i bet Rembrandt admired his work when he was finished.lol
Rembrandt
I bet Rembrandt never got held to single or thrown out at second on what should have been a stand up double, either. And I never expected so many people here to so vigorously defend fundamentally unsound baseball. I just hope you all don't piss and moan if the Cubs lose a close game because a guy didn't get into scoring position because he was admiring a drive that fell short.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on Apr 12, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
That's just silly
Aramis Ramirez has been the most constent good hitter on the Cubs over the last five years.
It's not bad fundamentals to not run out, it's just not working particularly hard. But if watching his home runs is part of the approach that makes Ramirez sufficiently comfortable to hit over 300 and 30 home runs every year, then I saw watch away.
Incidentally, Ramirez has been on the Cubs for 4 1/2 seasons. Please point out three instances where his failure to reach second base on what should have been a double cost the Cubs the game.
Its not bad fundamentals?
Come on, they teach this stuff to kids in Little League... run everything out no matter what. You have no idea how many doubles and triples are missed out on by players not hustling. I don't care how many runs you are up by, there is no excuse, you can always use runners in scoring position, especially with our bullpen.
He was told to not run things out
by the training staff.
Haiku-a-Day for Fukudome, helping Fuku understand the American game, 17 syllables at a time. Visit cubshaikus.blogspot.com!
If by consistent
you mean was nowhere to be found when Lee went down in early 2006, then you are correct.
"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."
by markleonette on Apr 12, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Oooh, clever
Is picking out a couple bad months the way you just consistency?
I prefer to look at a slightly bigger sample size.
Picking out a couple of bad months
Isn't that what some people here have done with Theriot's 2007 season? For the only time in his Cubs career, Ramirez was counted on to be THE man, and he didn't do it. Of course, after the Cubs were out of playoff contention, he turned it on in time to get his big contract.
"My bed is pulling me, gravity, daysleeper. Daaaysleeper."
by markleonette on Apr 13, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Funny you should mention Rembrandt
he often included himself in his paintings.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 12, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Also,
posting three straight seasons of .300/30/100 is not "bad baseball," nor is running your silly ass out of the batter's box on a ball that's plainly gone "good baseball."
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 12, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
What's your point?
The guy's a good slugger. There's little argument here. Is your contention: "If you're a good slugger, then you shouldn't be expected to run out in-play balls"? I'm really having trouble figuring out what you're all bent out of shape about.
Just for good measure:
For last season:
triples by hustling, scrappy player: 2, in 537 AB
triples by lazy, homer-admiring player: 4, in 506 AB
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
forgetting a lot of variables
especially with such small sample sizes. It could be luck. It could be that Ramirez has more power; triples are usually gotten because the ball ricochets oddly off a wall on a hard bounce, so Ramirez would be more prone to getting those hard bounces off jutting corners. It could be that Ramirez was hustling on those plays; he probably knew it wasn't going to be a homer, and also knew it wasn't just going to be an easy out, so he ran.
500 AB's is small sample size!
Now you're just grasping at straws.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
no
the difference between 2 and 4 triples is way too small and could easily have been influenced by one of the variables i spoke of above. Take this theoretical situation. If player A goes 1 for 500 and player B goes 2 for 500 does that make B somehow 2x better than A? No, they pretty much both suck equally. The 1 hit is easily influenced by other factors other than better hitting.
Sorry I didn’t make myself clear.
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