Cincinnati Reds @ Chicago Cubs GameThread, Apr 16, 2008 7:05 PM CDT

Open Thread: Cubs vs. Reds, Wednesday 4/16, 7:05 CT

by Al on Apr 16, 2008 4:00 PM CDT in Game Threads

Cincinnati Reds @ Chicago Cubs

If you missed it buried in the comments in the recap thread below, Alfonso Soriano is on the 15-day DL and Eric Patterson has been recalled from Iowa.

Now, here's the deal on what happened last night here.

The way it was explained to me, yesterday's game thread did publish -- as those of you who found it through my profile discovered -- when it was supposed to, at 4:15 pm CT. However, somehow the mechanism that publishes it didn't tell it to go to the front page.

Obviously, it's more technical than that. What I'm doing today is staying home until it posts, so that you will see it when you're supposed to. I've been told this problem wasn't reproducible and shouldn't happen again.

Today's Starting Pitchers


C. Zambrano Cubs	vs.	J. Fogg Reds


1-1	W-L	1-1
3.20	ERA	7.20
18	SO	6
2	BB	3
2	HR	3
vs. Cin	--	vs. Cubs

Josh Fogg. Wow. Last time we saw him he threw six good innings and the Rockies annihilated the Cubs 15-2 last August 11. However. Lifetime vs. the Cubs he is 7-7 with a 5.69 ERA, and Derrek Lee (.406/.429/.719 in 32 AB) and Aramis Ramirez (.333/.438/.815, 9-for-27, 4 HR, 16 RBI) usually beat him like the proverbial drum. The wind is absolutely howling out tonight -- maybe even more than last night.

Last year, Z was 6-9 at home with a 4.96 ERA; 12-4 on the road with a 3.06 ERA. So far this year (yes, I know, small sample size), he's 1-0, 1.32 in two starts at home, and 0-1, 7.50 in his only road start so far. Adam Dunn has homered six times off Z in 49 AB, but his average is only .224. Ken Griffey Jr. is .367/.457/.733 (11-for-30, 5 doubles, 2 HR).

Today's game is on CSN Chicago Plus. That means CLTV in Chicago, and various satellite channels. Also check today's MLB.com Mediacenter.

MLB.com Gameday (2007 version)

MLB.com Gameday (2008 version)

Baseball-reference.com game preview

Discuss amongst yourselves.

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Comments

wow this sucks

every time I plan my annual Cubs game, a player ALWAYS gets injured. I’ve never seen Soriano, Lee, and Ramirez all play in the same game. Oh well…........

and what a slap in the face to Murton as well!

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on Apr 16, 2008 4:01 PM CDT 0 recs

Al

I will be right over your right shoulder tonight in 436. Ill yell what a god you are…..women will swoon women will swoon.

GO CUBS

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Apr 16, 2008 4:03 PM CDT 0 recs

LOL

436, actually, is down the RIGHT field line. You’ll be all the way across the field.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 16, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

SON OF A

....oh well. I cant yell that hard I yelled to much at all those long bombs the team was hitting

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Apr 16, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

Al i will be in the left field corner...

Seated section – 102. I will wave if you happen to look over.

Not sure if you remember but that is where my season tickets are.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Apr 16, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Patterson...

Anyone think he’ll get the start at 2nd tonight?

"I've never had Red Bull in my life, but I've seen people at a bar order Red Bull and vodka... If I had a couple of those things, I'd be like that malt liquor bull leaving the bar!" Lou Piniella

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 16, 2008 4:07 PM CDT 0 recs

He might start in LF.

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on Apr 16, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think Patterson at second, DeRosa in left...

...is more likely. Patterson has been playing nothing but second base since he started the season at Iowa, and (so far as I can recall) didn’t see any time in the outfield in spring training.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Apr 16, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

He played 1 game in CF this year

"I've never had Red Bull in my life, but I've seen people at a bar order Red Bull and vodka... If I had a couple of those things, I'd be like that malt liquor bull leaving the bar!" Lou Piniella

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 16, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

I reckon Fonty will be at 2nd...

...and DeRosa LF. EPat will pinch run and get one at bat tonight.

If the Cubs were an international soccer team they'd be called Scotland.

by mrtobby on Apr 16, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

lol

just cause the kid gets called up doesn’t mean he’s guaranteed to play tonight, it’s not a 1-day thing. that said, i hope he gets in!!

"The Cubs can't be stopped" -- Me

by lilkimmer77 on Apr 16, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

Why would Dusty start him at second?

Oh, you mean EPat. Think about it, folks: We could see Corey grounding out to Eric tonight or, better yet, Eric stroking a gapper out of Corey’s reach.

Trivia question for which I have no answer: Is this the first time a Cubs player has played against his brother at Wrigley Field? Something tells me it isn’t.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 16, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

I Think

there may have been many. I seem to recall Mike Maddux pitching against and beating brother Greg for one. Anyone have any others?

And so it goes.

by Luigi on Apr 16, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

I like 'em both...

I saw E-Pat a couple of time in Peoria and took a liking to him…but I also really like Murton and wish there was some way the organization could find a spot for him.

I suspect Eric is coming up because he is more versatile defensively and there is no point in working in Matt as the plan is to move him.

"They say the big possums come out late." H. Caray

by Don Gerard on Apr 16, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

ugh...

Maybe epat and his .222 average in Iowa is just what we need to give us a jump start in the leadoff spot… gag.

by LeeElia's15% on Apr 16, 2008 4:09 PM CDT 0 recs

aghhh

another unschooled child of sample size. What to complain about batting average? Then be happy we lost a guy hitting .175 and added a guy hitting .222 UPGRADE!!!!!!!!!!!

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on Apr 16, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

I wonder what...

Kenny Lofton is doing these days? JK.

"I've never had Red Bull in my life, but I've seen people at a bar order Red Bull and vodka... If I had a couple of those things, I'd be like that malt liquor bull leaving the bar!" Lou Piniella

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 16, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

I am not JK.

If i were hendry i would call kenny up and see what he wants to actually play baseball.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Apr 16, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

He better hurry...

Before Dusty scoops him up.

"I've never had Red Bull in my life, but I've seen people at a bar order Red Bull and vodka... If I had a couple of those things, I'd be like that malt liquor bull leaving the bar!" Lou Piniella

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 16, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Doesn’t every GM worth his salt have him on speed dial?

by LeeElia's15% on Apr 16, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

LOL!

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on Apr 16, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

hey i would...

in a 17 year career he has been to the playoffs 11 times. Pretty solid.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Apr 16, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree that you have to consider it as this wont be the only trip to the DL this season for Soriano

....lets see how EPatt does

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on Apr 16, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

True - and to be honest...

i am sure Lofton would love to play and he probably wouldnt mind splitting time with Johnson in Center.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on Apr 16, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Getting past Harang was the hard part.

I really feel the Cubs are in a good position to win this series. The team has its No. 1 starter on the mound, the bats came alive yesterday, and it’s been a nice warm day here in Chi-Town. Quoth Ron Santo, “Let’s go get ‘em.”

By the way, anyone know why Arroyo isn’t pitching? I thought he was the Reds’ No. 2.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 16, 2008 4:13 PM CDT 0 recs

Friday

He pitches Friday against the Brewers. We just missed his turn in the rotation. Against the Brewers: Arroyo, Cueto, and Harang; their best 3 pitchers.

by john62 on Apr 16, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

Ah, I see. Thanks!

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 16, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

I haven't check stats

but doesn’t it seem like the wind has been blowing out an awful lot for early in the season so far? Maybe I’m wrong, but it seemed like last year there was an unusually few number of days, and so far this year it’s been good and windy.

In the middle of difficulty, lies opportunity - Einstein

by cubbieblue86 on Apr 16, 2008 4:13 PM CDT 0 recs

Time for us to stand PATT!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 16, 2008 4:22 PM CDT 1 recs

Nice. Those wings look like they're made out of spun glass.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 16, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wow!

You even put the reflection in! All hail santoswoodenlegs and his mighty photoshop skills!

If the Cubs were an international soccer team they'd be called Scotland.

by mrtobby on Apr 16, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Um...no.

That is sloppy and hacked together in 5 minutes. Plus also my photoshop skills are about one level above what a chimp could do compared with people who actually use it for a living.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 16, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

And modest too!

by ecbc on Apr 16, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hmmm interesting

E-Pat vs. C-Pat, Round 1.

"I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying" - Michael Jordan, the one and only...

by LPLancer23 on Apr 16, 2008 4:22 PM CDT 0 recs

Who did Murton piss off?

We need A. A real outfielder and B. a good CONTACT hitter. I like
E-Pat but that is not him. I had enough fun at the game in Philadelphia
Friday with guys in the outfield who were at best out of position.
I get that he is more “versatile” but I want an outfielder to replace Soriano
we have enough back up infielders. E Pats big advantage is speed but he has to get on to use it. BRING BACK ORANGE GUY.

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 16, 2008 4:25 PM CDT 0 recs

It would help...

...if Murton had some power—-or at least a demonstrable power stroke at AAA. But he doesn’t. – TL

by timlacy on Apr 16, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

Or if he were left-handed

Which I’m sure is why Patterson got the call. Piniella is obsessed with getting more lefties into the lineup.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on Apr 16, 2008 5:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hendry and Lou must have something against Murton

Honestly, when your LF goes down you MUST call him up. I think he would be more productive than E-Pat. I mean Hendry is saying things such as “well he’d be a starter on many other teams in LF!” Then why doesn’t he call him up! Hell, even by not calling him up, it makes Murton’s trade value decrease

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on Apr 16, 2008 4:26 PM CDT 0 recs

I know.

My heart is very heavy. :-(

by sue369 on Apr 16, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think...

This has to do with Pie. They are trying to see what E-Patt can do up here. If they brought up Murton, then they would have to send him back down when Soriano comes back. I think by bringing up Patterson, you see if he can be that speedy/versatile player to play OF/IF. If he succeeds, then I’m sorry to say, but I think Pie gets sent back down.

"I've never had Red Bull in my life, but I've seen people at a bar order Red Bull and vodka... If I had a couple of those things, I'd be like that malt liquor bull leaving the bar!" Lou Piniella

by CubsBullsBears on Apr 16, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

Lou is probably happy to run DeRosa and Johnson...

out to LF and let Patterson, Fonty, and Cedeno take care of 2nd, and from the looks of DeRosa bat so far…that seems like the best idea.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 16, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

so we are going to put someone in LF

who really hasn’t played at that position AT ALL in his career? It makes more sense to give the job outright to Murton and have DeRosa, Cedeno, and Fontenot at 2b.

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on Apr 16, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

LF

I dont thing they brought up Patterson with the intention of giving him a lot of playing time. I think he is a left handed pinch hitter with versatility.

"Sometimes an intelligent man is forced to be drunk in order to spend time with fools." -Hemmingway

by IndyDiehard on Apr 16, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

then that even helps out my cause

who plays LF? Johnson? Slide Derosa there who is 2b?

It makes MUCH more sense for Murton

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on Apr 16, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Not really

DeRosa and Johnson will likely split time there and Fontenot/Cedeno/Patterson will play second. Murton plays one position and hits from the right side. If he was a lefty, it would be a no brainer.

"Sometimes an intelligent man is forced to be drunk in order to spend time with fools." -Hemmingway

by IndyDiehard on Apr 16, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

We were hoping to do that very same thing...

with Soriano when we signed him, plus also it’s only for 2-3 weeks.

Just sayin’

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 16, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

I should have said...

with Soriano in CF when we signed him…

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 16, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

yeah and we know how that turned out

I just think we need to build the best team we can now and I think Murton is a much better hitter at this point than Patterson and he is a natural LF which we need. I’d love for E-Pat to prove me wrong, but I really think Murton was the better option.

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on Apr 16, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

Your basing your opinion on the assumption..

that Patterson is going to get the lion’s share of playing time in LF. I don’t think he is.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on Apr 16, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

It probably doesnt help that he hasnt mustered one extra base hit in AAA...

...if he was raking, he probably be here.

That and EPatt can play more than one postion

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on Apr 16, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

i think you are exactly right, though lou may give patterson a shot in left. the fact is that lou likes players with some versatility and that’s not murton…

"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella

by anormal on Apr 16, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hmmm....

I heard the same complaint against Baker. Everyone must have something against Murton.

by rlpete on Apr 16, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

Maybe we overrate Matt

Maybe we overrate Matt just a bit.

I love Murton as much as almost anyone else but Hendry was offering him for a song and there were no takers.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Apr 16, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

You hit the nail on the head

We like Murton because he is a hard worker, he is unique, he has orange hair, he is the only decent part of the Nomar trade. Unfortunately, scouts and GM’s don’t seem to share our ardor.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband

by Ross on Apr 16, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Murton has ZERO extra base hits and ZERO rbi's

Epat is a LH hitter, has some speed and at least has a SLG ave above 300. Murton is nothing special.

by cubswin on Apr 16, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

Um.

We’re seriously going to base our views of Matt Murton on 25 minor-league at-bats? Where his OBP exceeds .500? Are you serious?

I has a blog.

by cwyers on Apr 16, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

Any word

Any word on how bad it is these things can really vary and how long he’s expected to be out?

Anyone who thinks we can win without Soriano being productive for a long time is pretty goofy.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Apr 16, 2008 4:31 PM CDT 0 recs

Well he's on

Well he’s on the 15-day disabled list, so, call me goofy, but I’m guessing he’s expected to be out at least 15 days.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

by dat cubfan daver on Apr 16, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

15 day DL

15 day DL is for all but the most severe injuries.

It could mean anywhere from 15 days to 2 months basically. My question is any word on how long he’s expected to be out?

There’s only 2 DLs 15 and 60 days.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Apr 16, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'd say 2-4 weeks

that’s my gut feeling

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on Apr 16, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

I love Matt as much as anyone else

I love Matt Murton as much as almost anyone else but I think we need to have a speedy guy replace Soriano.

We are all waiting for that glorious October night when we finally win it all. Until then we will continue to cheer, never do the wave and hope.

by cubstoseriesby100 on Apr 16, 2008 4:33 PM CDT 0 recs

Comcast

My TV is telling me that the game is on Comcast Sports Net, not Comcast Sports Net Plus. It says that the Bulls are on CLTV and Comcast Sports Net Plus. What gives?

by Holy Cow on Apr 16, 2008 4:39 PM CDT 0 recs

same here

by cubsnlinux on Apr 16, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

Switched...

originally it was on CSN+ but it was switched to CSN because the Bulls are a joke…

by seang03 on Apr 16, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

DirecTV is

telling me the same thing.

by sue369 on Apr 16, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

I wonder if keeping Murton down

has to do with OPTIONS. Clearly he has fewer left than E-Pat. The guy hit .300 in a FULL season in the majors so it is not like he is some unknown quanity. Yes he lacks both power and speed but I for one think the ability
to um GET ON BASE is kind of selling point. I suppose Johnson in LF is Ok but that means Pie and I just don’t think DeRosa is that good in the OF. If they let Ward have one more start in the outfield , more bad things will happen.

I am actually pretty hopeful that team is fine with Sori out a few weeks but if Lou goes nuts changing the lineup every day vs having brought Murton up to play the majority of the games in LF, I think they will suffer.

by Doggie Stalker on Apr 16, 2008 5:01 PM CDT 0 recs

Options don't work like that

Options are based on service time in MLB, not a finite number. A player can be sent up and sent down as many times as a club wants in a three year period of the player being on the 40-man roster. When that period is over, in his fourth year, he has to clear waivers to be sent down.

I believe this is Murton’s third year. Next year he would have to clear waivers before being sent down. Chances are somebody would have claimed him.

In the middle of a good time, Truth gave me her icy kiss. Look around, you must be joking. All that way, all that way for this -Oysterband

by Ross on Apr 16, 2008 5:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

Correct...

Patterson’s promotion has nothing to do with Murton’s options, as Murton has, in fact, already burned his option for this year by being on the 40-man roster.

This move seems strictly based on Patterson’s speed, versatility, and LH-ness. I’d have to guess that this means Piniella is going to go with Fontenot at 2B and DeRosa in LF. That way, the lineup gets more LH and we add more speed to the bench.

I’m not sure I agree with it – I think Murton is a better hitter than Patterson, and is certainly suited to play LF. But, it appears that hitting is not what Piniella is looking for from his callup.

by SouthernCub on Apr 16, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

OK I'LL BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY IT

And I’m pretty sure I mean it too. As much as Fonz can help a ballclub, to be brutally honest, RIGHT NOW, we’re a better team without him. If you need me to explain why I’d be glad to.

"The Cubs can't be stopped" -- Me

by lilkimmer77 on Apr 16, 2008 5:06 PM CDT 0 recs