Sweep!
Remember yesterday when I told you the Pirates were a bad team? And some of you disagreed with me?
The Pirates are a really, really, really bad team. The Cubs smacked Pirates pitching around again today for 13 runs (this time on 18 hits and seven walks) and completed the series sweep with a 13-6 blowout of the Pirates that wasn't as close as that score.
You could point out -- and some of you did and they also did on the WGN radio postgame show -- that the Pirates are over .500 against the rest of the league. What does that say about the rest of the league? -- that'd be my argument. And this is what a good team is supposed to do against a bad one -- win nearly all the games. So far vs. the dregs of the NL Central -- the Pirates and Astros -- the Cubs are 8-1 (and 11-4 vs. the Central overall). And the Cardinals, who started out so hot, just lost two of three to the Giants, who are even worse than the Pirates.
Example of how bad the Pirates are: their pitching staff issued 19 walks to Cubs hitters in this series.
Now think about that. That's about five percent of all the walks that Cub hitters drew in the entire 2006 season (395 of them that year). Cubs hitters are taking a cue from Kosuke Fukudome (who sat today due to a minor eye problem; he'll be back tomorrow) and are being very, very patient. They have now drawn 81 walks in 18 games -- that's 4.5 walks per game, which would be 729 walks for a full season, or nearly twice as many as they did under the non-base-clogging philosophy of Dusty Baker.
It's easy, Dusty: get guys on base and a lot of them will score. A simple thing, really.
And that's what the Cubs did early and often today. Reed Johnson -- who has been a revelation in the leadoff spot and a good reason why Alfonso Soriano shouldn't ever, ever be placed back in that leadoff spot, ever (did I say ever? And the Cubs are playing better without Soriano. At this point, Alfonso, don't hurry back!) -- led off the bottom of the first with a double and scored on Ryan Theriot's single.
Theriot had four hits and a walk today. I know, I know. He's not this good. Yes, I know. He's not going to hit .340. But would any of you -- even those of you who have devoted a ton of time to statistical "proof" that Theriot can never, ever improve and that he's a terrible hitter, etc. etc. admit that maybe, possibly, he might have a career year this year? That maybe he can push his game to a higher level? I heard today that Theriot spent quite a bit of time in the weight room in the offseason. We are seeing the results already -- he's now hit five doubles in eighteen games, and the ball seems to come off his bat with much more authority than it did a year ago. When I say there are things that cannot be measured on a stat sheet, that's one of them. Stats can only tell you what has occurred, and project what might occur in the future -- not tell you with 100% certainty what will occur in the future.
At least admit that it's possible. Deal?
Almost too many kudos to go around today. Aramis Ramirez, always a slow starter, had four hits, four RBI and his fourth HR. I didn't think anyone would hit one today into the teeth of a pretty good wind off the lake, but the Pirates' Ryan Doumit hit two and came up in the 9th with the chance to hit a third, which Mike said would have been the "weirdest 3-HR game since Freddie Patek". Instead, he struck out to end the game.
More weirdness: Ryan Dempster gave up hits to the first two hitters -- then retired twelve in a row, making some good defensive plays (one thing we hadn't seen much of from Dempster, throwing one inning at a time as closer, is that he's a very good infielder), and then fell apart in the fifth, giving up three runs and making the game then close at 5-3 before striking out Adam LaRoche with the bases loaded to end the inning and qualify for his third win. The bullpen today gave up three runs in four innings, but it didn't really matter with the 13-run outburst.
I don't know -- and don't right now have time to look up -- the last time the Cubs scored 13 runs in consecutive games. Phil said to me in our seats, "The Cubs scored 13 runs in every game in this series." No, they didn't, I replied, but it took me a couple of minutes to remember that Friday's score was 3-2.
Which led me to say to Mike, "I can remember game scores from 1974, but I can't remember one from two days ago." That's pretty scary.
That's what kind of day it was, in bright April sunshine but chilly temperatures (48 degrees reported in the boxscore is probably a little lower than it really was). It was so cold that some of the 20something women sitting around us got a little loopy. One of them came up from the shade in the corner to tell her friends that she was "moving because it's too cold down there -- but you all can move into the empty seats if you want." They declined.
The Cubs are clicking on all cylinders right now, and I imagine their confidence level will be high going into the brief two-game interlude with the Mets tomorrow. They'll need that -- the Mets are a better team than the Pirates.
Finally, this morning I noted that Carol Slezak had used a term I used in a post 11 days ago -- "Fukudomania" -- and wondered where she might have seen it. Turns out Bruce Miles used it back in February. Credit where credit is due!
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232 comments
Comments
Good game today.
Quick question, what were the Cubs record after 18 games for the last 10 years or so? This is the best start in a while.. or at least from what I remember.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 6:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cubs' records after 18 games
Here you go, with final records in parantheses:
2007: 7-11 (85-77)
2006: 11-7 (66-96)
2005: 9-9 (79-83)
2004: 12-6 (89-73)
2003: 12-6 (88-74)
2002: 6-12 (67-95)
2001: 12-6 (88-74)
2000: 7-11 (65-97)
1999: 8-10 (67-95)
1998: 11-7 (90-73)
by John Q Freejazz on Apr 20, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Alfonso, don't hurry back!"
How can we miss you if we do so well without you. And get to see
Orange Guy, to boot.
Speaking of which, after today you have to wonder how many
more days Pie has before he’s back in Iowa.
by santo4hof on Apr 20, 2008 6:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
in all fairness..
the pitch to pie was outside and low but i see no real reason pie should be in chicago. he needs to be hitting everyday in Iowa. he’s only 22 for goodness sake.
Go Cubbies Go!!!!!!
by cubsluver22 on Apr 20, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
Agreed he should go down. It’s not helping his development sitting on the bench. Johnson is getting it done.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
Why not let him play everyday in CF with Johnson in left until Sori gets back? Our offense is good enough to carry him for awhile even if he struggles. Plus, Pie’s defense might help us win some games too. I think that’s really being over looked. We’re a vastly better defensive team with him in CF, and as we all know, a good defense can keep us in a lot of games and help our pitching staff. I’ve already seen too many balls Johnson couldn’t get to that Pie would have. I think we’re wasting a good opportunity to see what he can do. Otherwise, send him down so he can play every day.
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on Apr 20, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
really has nothing left to learn in AAA. He’s had over 800 plate appearances there and has proven he can hit AAA pitching. Might as well let him learn from the bench in Chicago. Playing in Iowa is unlikely to help him any.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie
I agree he has nothing left to learn down there. And I’m not averse to putting him into the lineup every day to see if he gets hot. But if Lou is going to sit him on the bench all the time, send him to the minors so at least he gets regular ABs.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orange guy
Ground ball after ground ball, sorry, Please hurry back Soriano. And good bye Felix nice to know you.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 20, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, I have frequently admitted that it's possible...
...Theriot has a career year. I’ve frequently put the odds of it occurring at about 20%.
I’m still waiting on an admission from the opposing side of the issue that:
1. Gambling on a career year out of a 28-year-old following his rookie season was a boneheaded and irresponsible move by the organization.
2. Even if he has a career year, it’s still unlikely that he’s an asset to the team as a full-time shortstop.
Meanwhile Ronny Cedeno is outhitting Theriot, and Theriot has the lowest Zone Rating of any qualified shortstop in the major leagues. None of it means anything, because it’s not even the end of April.
by cwyers on Apr 20, 2008 6:30 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
theriot
would you rather be seeing cedeno at ss right now? by no means is theriot going to put these numbers up all year but I dont see why he cant hit 290 with an obp of 350ish. Ill take that for a spot that was supposidly going to be are “weakest” position. I also like the energy he brings to the team….he’s aggressive in stealing bases and always seems to be scoring (14 runs scored so far this season). He is 28, but he was set back a few years because he started in the farm system as a switch hitter but that didn’t work out…and his last few years before coming to the majors weren’t too bad.
by cubsmania on Apr 20, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So let me see if I follow the reasoning here.
1. There’s no way he can put up his current numbers.
2. He could hit .290 with an OBP of .350 – which is true in and of itself.
3. If he did, that would be acceptable production.
And if he did hit .290 with an OBP of .350, assuming his career norms in slugging or a bit more, then he would be… a mildly below-average shortstop. If he did that – and he could, but nobody has established that it’s likely.
I just don’t understand why people seem so abjectly hostile to the idea that Theriot’s past performance is our best indicator of his future performance. (And his minor league numbers? Yeah, nothing to brag about.)
by cwyers on Apr 20, 2008 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not hostile to that IDEA.
What I’m hostile to is the assumption that any past performance is an absolute, 100% correct predictor of what he will do in the future.
Is it an INDICATOR? Yes, it is. But the problem I have is with the assumption that he could never, ever improve on what he has done to date.
Is that likely? No, it’s not. Is it possible? Yes, it is.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loud sustained applause
Thanks Al! In addition, Lou knows Theriot. It is obvious that if Lou wanted a different set of options than Theriot and Cedeno, then he would have had Jim Hendry work on it over the winter. I trust Lou. After all, he has more rings than any of us do.
I want my Macias!
by wombat on Apr 20, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it's possible that this season he has a breakout or a career year.
And it’s possible that last season was his career year, and he plays absolutely horribly on the season. And there’s the possibility that he’s a slight improvement on last season, which is by far the most likely option.
I’ve never claimed 100% certainty about this. But what I don’t understand is why so many people seem to be personally offended by the conclusion that Ryan Theriot isn’t likely to be any better than what we’ve seen so far. Most likely, he’s simply an adequate bench player sort. Maybe he exceeds that. But if so, it’s not because he’s hitting the weight room – almost all ballplayers do that. And it’s not because he cares more than other ballplayers.
by cwyers on Apr 20, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now see, I disagree with that.
Can a player improve his performance by better workouts? I would argue that yes, he can. And I would further argue that “caring more” (if that’s even true) might make a difference. Working hard can and does produce results, in any job, not just being a baseball player.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To chime in
This is why I don’t debate with cwyers about Theriot. I respect your opinion but we have differing views on the player that will not budge. Get out early Al!
Plus, Theriot is one of “Lou’s Boys” as I’ve heard the term being used quite frequently lately on the radio and TV. He will be our SS for the remainder of the year and I’d even guess into 2009.
by ak123 on Apr 21, 2008 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of the people who play Major League Baseball...
...are amazingly good at baseball, when compared to the rest of us. The talent spread among major leaguers is agonizingly small when taken out of the specialized context. To put it into perspective, there are roughly 55,000,000 American males aged 19-44; something like 1,000 people played in the majors last season, and many of them came from foreign countries. We’re talking about the top 1% here, basically.
The screening process is intensive, and lasts pretty much from the start of high school through possibly college and the minor leagues. You’re scouted, you’re drafted, and you have to then somehow find a way to scrape to the top.
You are not playing for AAA Iowa at the age of 26 unless you are intensely devoted to the prospect of being a major leaguer. If you’re not on the 40-man roster, you’re making $2,150 a month for the months that you’re playing at AAA; you have to be pretty dedicated at that point.
I really don’t see where starting shortstop and popular T-shit sale Ryan Theriot is going to be able to squeeze all that much more out of his talents than old-for-his-level, no-longer-a-prospect Ryan Theriot did just to make it this far; he’s likely gotten as far as he has simply by squeezing every last drop out of what he already has.
You do not get to be a major league ballplayer without working insanely hard for the priveledge. All of these guys are on workout regimens. All of them are trying very, very hard to get where they are. It’s not like Theriot – or anyone else – just coasted into the majors and is finding that if they just apply themselves, they can become so much better.
by cwyers on Apr 21, 2008 3:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
The wild card...
...here is whether a player has room to grow mentally, as opposed to physically. If Theriot or any other major league player (with similar service time) has a “mental revalation” they can show quite a bit of improvement in a short period of time.
This is especially true with hitting, because it is so difficult by nature, and you need a confidant free mind to get the maximum out of your physical skills. The thing is, if a player doesn’t have that “light bulb” moment after a certain amount of time, they probably never will.
Anyway, anything is possible and we have seen players take a while before they come into their own, but whether player A or B will make the mental adjustments required to max out your physical skills, is very very difficult to predict. To me, this is why you have so many physically gifted prospects who can’t hit major league pitching, and other guys without the physical skills, become good hitters.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Apr 21, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well said.
Is Theriot that kind of player? We don’t know yet; there’s too small a sample size this year. Is he going to hit .340? Probably not.
But I think what I’ve seen of him so far suggests that his numbers in 2008 will be better than they were in 2007.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone says it's a 100% predictor.
Think of it this way – it is possible that the Cub with the highest OPS at the end of the season will be Henry Blanco. It’s possible. It’s just not likely. I say it’s not likely because of his past performance.
Who would have predicted last year that the Cub with the highest OPS would be D-Ward? It was possible and it happened, but no one was going to predict it. And even though it happened, Lou knew better than to bank on Ward continuing at that level of production and giving him regular playing time.
The argument on Theriot is the same – he’s not a good bet to be productive against right-handed pitching.
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All of this may very well be true.
All I’m asking is that we watch what happens and not make preassumptions which could be incorrect.
If Cedeno does outhit Theriot and stops making boneheaded plays, he’s a much better choice for starting SS.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We make conclusions about baseball players all the time.
And the best tools we have at our disposal are simply what that player has done in the past, as well as how other players like him have performed in the future.
I do my absolute best to be fair and go to the conclusions the data takes me to, in spite of my personal feelings about a ballplayer. (You’d have to spend a long time on BCB and pay an awful lot of attention to me to know that my favorite Cub of all time is Mark Prior.)
The data so far on the season (at least, as of two days ago, which is the last time I did a thorough look at the defensive stats) says that Aramis Ramirez has been the least valuable member of the team so far. I don’t worry about it, because I know that the data on the season so far is as close to meaningless as it can be. Our preassumptions in this case – and really in all cases – are more valuable to us as information that what has happened on the field.
I don’t go out of my way to discover proofs about Ryan Theriot; I only write about him as much as I do because it seems to be so controversial.
by cwyers on Apr 20, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot has 68 AB
Ramirez has 69 and Lee has 71. So Theriot isn’t hitting so well on limited AB’s or small sample size. When you factor in the AB’s and everything he’s the second best average hitter on the team. I know he won’t stay that good, but I think Theriot should be given the chance by Cubs fans until he shows he’s gonna hit like last year again.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 20, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One item I do remember
from Bill James’ earliest “Abstracts,” is that his research found the ‘average’ major leaguer will have his career years at 27-28. It’s very possible this might be the case for Theriot.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 20, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peak is generally 27-29 years of age.
Certain skills progress differently – walk rate doesn’t seem to peak, it just continues to increase, while speed skills tend to start declining earlier. Power peaks later than other skills.
But during the 27-29 years the slope is pretty much flat – it’s where you expect the most consistancy out of a player’s performance level.
That’s not an iron law, and I’ve never claimed that it is. But there’s no reason, based upon his past performance, to EXPECT an improvement out of him. It’s an outlier of a posibility.
by cwyers on Apr 20, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I would further agree..
... that if Theriot suddenly puts up a .800 OPS (which is probably about as high as he could get), it would likely be seen, when his career is over, as a fluke year.
We’d take it, wouldn’t we?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes but why would we risk it?
Technically, anything is that is not defined specifically by man (like 1 never equals 2, by definition) is possible. even things that seem impossible could be explained by someone saying it was an act of god. We can not disprove it. But we have to conclude things based on what’s more probable, and we conclude that based on what we know from experience.
We know that Theriot has never been especially spectacular at any level of professional play. We know that he is 28, thus less likely to improve greatly. We know he was terrible at the major league level last year. We know his glove isn’t going to make up for a bad offense.
It’s just not logically smart to play a player that has a very improbable chance to play well and is even less likely to play exceedingly well. Theriot is more like a high risk/low reward player than a high risk/high reward player that it is okay to gamble on.
by ecbc on Apr 21, 2008 4:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Derrek Lee
had his peek year at age 29-32 currently. The guy has gone from a 270-280s hitter, to a 300 plus hitter and has improved alot at the plate. I’m not saying Theriot and Lee can be compared at all. But the point is some players don’t even peak until the age of 29 or 30.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 20, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cwyers did acknowlege that
but we have to use that as our basis because it is most probable. Lee was still a good offensive player even before he reached his peak, so we could easily let him play and reach a peak. Theriot is bad so we can’t just wait and hope he significantly improves when it’s most likely he will not. We can’t know anything for sure; we can only base conclusions on what is most probable.
by ecbc on Apr 21, 2008 4:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Loud Sustained Applause...
(man, I hate that phrase!) :)
But I completely agree with you. Al’s point in the diary is completely correct – it is certainly possible to improve. BUT, cwyers made an equally valid counterpoint in this thread (and one that continues to be ignored apparently) – that, while it is certainly possible for dramatic improvement from Theriot, it is unlikely and it was probably not wise to gamble on it working out.
I hope Theriot continues to do well. But I’d have to say that the odds are against him doing so, and that the likelihood of him having a career year this year weren’t worth the probability that he’d be below-average again. Now, hindsight is always 20/20, so what Theriot actually does will influence people’s opinion. But going into the season, it seems unreasonable to argue that Theriot was likely to have a big jump in outcomes.
I think it’s a matter of optimism versus logic here. The optimists are saying “it’s possible.” The other side is saying “it’s possible but not likely.” Those two arguments are not mutually exclusive. Where the debate gets interesting is when the optimists say “it’s fine to leave him as a regular and give him a chance, because he MIGHT improve,” but the other side says “it is a bad idea, because he’s not LIKELY to improve, and right now he’s a below-average player.”
It seems like the optimists are still discussing the first debate, while cwyers is discussing the second debate.
by SouthernCub on Apr 21, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops...
i meant for this post as a response to ecbc’s other post!
by SouthernCub on Apr 21, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id like
to see more team stats, seeing as i can only look up individual standings right now.
If anyone can point me in the right direction i would be very greatful. I believe the cubs are leading in runs/hits/and obp but i may be wrong.
My 08 Cubs record 4-0
Updated April 19th
by Rudey on Apr 20, 2008 6:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On MLB.com, they have sortable team stats
For the record, Cubs are:
2nd in OBP (.366, behind Red Sox at .367)
3rd in AVG (.282, Angels at .295)
2nd in Runs (111, D-Backs at 112)
3rd in Hits (185, Red Sox at 201)
6th in HR’s (22, Phillies at 27)
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Apr 20, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should add
I don’t know if that info includes today’s games or not. But I imagine if it doesn’t, than the Cubs would place higher on several lists.
"Prince Fielder Dies Of Inside-The-Park Homerun" - The Onion
by DTJchris on Apr 20, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes it does include the day's games...
...I checked twice today, and it was updated.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Apr 20, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone can claim "Fukudomania"
It seems like a pretty simple turn of a phrase, given his name. I’d say we can give Carol a pass on this one.
Fontenot (fon-te-no): Cajun for "scrappy"
by zambranofan on Apr 20, 2008 6:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
still early, of course,
but I believe that a Cubs win tomorrow combined with a D-backs loss would put CHN in a tie for the best record in all of baseball.
Weird, huh?
by HereComesASpecialBoy on Apr 20, 2008 6:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice start for the team
...but it’s still early and the Cubs haven’t play too many really good teams. We should get a better view of how strong they are after playing the Mets twice and the Rockies twice.
by Butchoh31 on Apr 20, 2008 6:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
The Cubs are 6-0 vs. Pittsburgh. 6-6 vs. everyone else.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And?
Pittsburgh is 7-5 against everyone else.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Pittsburgh's "everyone else" the same...
as our “everyone else?”
by SouthernCub on Apr 21, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be pleased....
Although I’d like to see a starter or two pitch into the 8th inning. Even the 7th. The Bullpen has been fabulous but the less we can depend on them. Dempster should be allowed to recover from “one bad inning”. Maybe he was gassed. But still I’d be comfortable knowing that someone other than Z can go all the way if possible.
"I can't be held responsible for what I personally tell my goons to do...."- C. Montgomery Burns
by yahoodi on Apr 20, 2008 6:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
indeed
I think it’s only a matter of time before Z posts a CG!
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so!
I’d like to see these starters going deeper really soon.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
could we actually be beating the team
we should beat…. Yep, it sure seems like it….Woooot!
"I'm not normally a religious man, but... if you're up there, save me, Superman!"
Homer Simpson
by blueivy on Apr 20, 2008 7:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Will tomorrow night's game....
...be your 2000th game, Al? Or am I just reading your scorecard wrong?
That’s amazing that you know that exact number of games you’ve attended.
by Chico Walker on Apr 20, 2008 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing.
Looks like you’ve been to 1866 games @ Wrigley, and 1999 overall?
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Apr 20, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's incredible
Al, I’m surprised you’re not making a bigger deal out of it. After all, Baseball is a game of numbers and records. That’s quite a stat you’ve got for yourself.
by cubsonWGN4ever on Apr 21, 2008 1:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You'll see more about this later today.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot
Why all the talk about Theriot having a career year? If he does, all the better, but he doesn’t have to. This is not a “so goes Theriot, so go the Cubs” situation at all. If he can get at a high rate, steal some bases in the right situations, and play a solid defensive shortstop, I’m cool with that. I like guys who may not be the most talented, but bust their tail on the field and outplay guys with more talent because they work harder. Theriot is that guy. Of course he is not going to hit .340, but the point is, he is more than justifying the playing time he is getting with his performance. He started slow, but lately has been a riot (sorry)!!
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Apr 20, 2008 7:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why does everyone think
Theriot can play a solid defensive shortstop?
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 10:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
I’m not saying he’s Ozzie Smith, or even Shawon Dunston, I’m saying he gets the job done. Who would you prefer play shortstop everday?
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Apr 20, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Everyday", that is.
"Don't complain to me about the stormy weather, boys. Just bring the ship into port." --Steve Stone, September 2004
by ctcoff99 on Apr 20, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess to my eyes
and I freely admit my eyes are not trained for this sort of thing, he doesn’t appear to get the job done. He appears to miss balls that seem to me like other SSs would get. Now, like most human beings, I’m thoroughly biased, so I really am asking the rest of this board what they see when they watch Theriot play SS.
As for everyday, I want someone not on roster, but I think as long as we’re playing both against LHP, Cedeno should be at SS because his range is better.
by DGU on Apr 21, 2008 5:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because I don't think the evidence supports it...
cwyers would be the person to check with on this, but I think Theriot lacks the range (especially to his right) to be a solid defensive shortstop. Theriot may not make mistakes on the balls he can make a play on, but I think that the universe of plays he can make is more limited than the universe of plays that a good shortstop can make. Range is something that is not easily observed by the naked eye, and may be why Theriot appears to play a decent shortstop.
Your second question is more interesting. It may be that Theriot is the best of a bad group of options now. I don’t know that we have anyone that would be necessarily better. Cedeno certainly has more range and a better arm, but is more susceptible to the mental mistake. But I think the argument that those who have a distate for Theriot as an everyday shortstop would make is that the Cubs should have made upgrading the SS position a bigger priority this offseason.
by SouthernCub on Apr 21, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Theriot's right around league average at short defensively.
At least according to last year’s various Zone Rating systems.
I don’t think that it’s controversial to say that Theriot’s tools defensively match up better at second base – his big weaknesses are his arm and his range, which says “second baseman” to me. But he has good hands and a good release, so he generally is able to make plays on the balls within his range.
Put it this way. last year, Theriot made plays on .858 of the balls that were assigned to his zone of responsibility, according to BIS ZR. Troy Tulowitzki made plays on .861 of balls in zone. You’re really splitting hairs on that difference.
But if we look at Out Of Zone plays – plays where the shortstop is able to get to a ball outside of the assigned zone – Theriot’s defense doesn’t look as good. The average shortstop makes 36 OOZ plays, given Theriot’s number of in-zone chances. (We’re estimating opportunities here, which isn’t the most comforting thing to do, but it’s the best measure we have.) Tulo would make an estimated 44-45 plays, based on Theriot’s chances. Theriot made 28. (Meanwhile, just because Adam Everett is amazing: Everett makes an estimated 54 plays per season based upon Theriot’s chances.)
Theriot is very good at making plays on balls he gets to; his in-zone percentage is right up there with the best shortstops in baseball. He just isn’t very good at getting to baseballs.
I know that we’re using estimates here, and that OOZ chances aren’t as equally distributed as I’m making it sound here. But we’re talking about a not insubstantial number of plays here – and remember that Theriot’s opportunites were for a half-season of shortstop. (Tulo made 87 OOZ plays last season.)
He’s certainly not a defensive liability, but it’s hard to argue that he’s enough of a defensive asset to offset the offensive liability that he is likely to present.
by cwyers on Apr 21, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree...
...Theriot seems very dependable on the routine play, and that is important to be dependable. He is not a top flight defensive SS by any means, but as always, you can live with him depending on what the rest of the team is doing.
One thing that does bother me about him, is the way he “double clutches” on a lot of his throws. I think it’s only a matter of time before this starts to cost him on some of the tougher plays when you have to hurry.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Apr 21, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would love to see you all continue your argument
On my fanpost, here.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on Apr 21, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NHK program of the game just started in HD
Looks like beautiful day and Cubs got great sweep, winning against Bucs 9 games in a row – congrats.
Dome inside the dugout is shown frequently by NHK’s “Domecamera”, and he looks very relaxed.
I will record this in any way and watch later, maybe tonight.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on Apr 20, 2008 7:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Domecamera?
There’s a media camera directed just on Kosuke the entire game?
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Apr 20, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NHK
NHK always brings in their own HD camera to go after Japanese players (as they did in Seattle, NY and Boston), and mix it with local station’s picture.
NHK is public broadcating and removing all the commercials on local station’s program.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on Apr 20, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a link to NHK
in English – here you go
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on Apr 20, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and for those who wanto to learn some Japanese language....
...just in case you accidentaly see Dome in Chicago downtown or at nice restaurant…. here you go.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on Apr 20, 2008 7:35 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Question for dragonsfanatic..
I’m curious as to Dome’s popularity there. How does he rate compared to Ichiro, Matsui, Matsuzaka, etc.? Is there a sense of “Fukudomania” there as well?
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on Apr 20, 2008 7:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That's reason why NHK brings their own camera in Wrigley
Media coverage is almost same with those superstars… There are lot of Domemania, but all of them are Dragons fan as well…
Only the difference is that we have about 20 top Japanese players are in MLB this year… in Nomo (just got cut by Royals), Hasegawa and Ichiro days, there were only a few.
BTW NHK commentator Shinji Hata just said he was a teammate of Leon Lee, father of Derrek, for a couple of years at Yakult Swallows, and watched small Derrek running around and played catch with him frequently pregame in Jungu Stadium… Leon always brought Derrek to his game.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on Apr 20, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting..
Nice story about Hata and Leon Lee…I was thinking too, now that Dome is so popular and the Japanese fans see Wrigley Field, that in the future, more Japanese stars will want to play for the Cubs….I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on Apr 20, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First time the Pirates have given up 13 runs...
.....in back to back games since 1950.
They're looking good aren't they? My favorite part of this series, was just how patient they were at the plate. No "smart hacking" at all and getting in good hitters counts. That's a key for a good baseball team. The game is never easy, but when you consistently put yourself into good hitters counts, good things will happen. Ronny had great ab's today too. Kept fouling off tough pitches until he finally got good pitchers to hit and he did.
Wuertz on the other hand, isn't throwing the ball well at all. He's aiming the ball and he's putting his slider on a tee. Starting to wonder if he's hurt.
Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen
by lemon20pie on Apr 20, 2008 7:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
why why why is it doing that?
Ronny had great ab’s today, fouling off good pitches and starting to wonder if Wuertz is hurt.
Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen
by lemon20pie on Apr 20, 2008 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lemon
Could it have something to do with your text editor settings?
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on Apr 20, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not
Because I have no idea what you’re talking about :) I’ve noticed that it happens after I hit tab for a new paragraph.
Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen
by lemon20pie on Apr 20, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al...
When you get a second, you might mention to the techs that the default text editor may have a bug. Indented paragraphs and/or breaks seem to periodically be interpreted as a
tag. That sort of text is basically a block quote that doesn't wrap, so you get the odd run-on like Lemon is seeing. It's happened a few times that I've seen, although I've not personally tried to replicated it.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
That one was my bad, as I forget I can’t use the tag in the post. Anyway, the editor is mistakenly inserting
tags. The text doesn’t wrap, so you get those strange paragraph run-ons.by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well...
one last try. The editor is mistakenly inserting the “pre” tag. Have someone look into it.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have already sent this to the bugreport address.
You can send it along too if you like.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah...
One is enough.
As an aside, are you still holding on to bleacher seats for Tuesday?
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
See you then.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent...
I can’t take both, as I’m solo on Tuesday. Put me down for one if that’s okay.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've already got tickets, right?
I’m just saving a seat for you.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
Actually I saw that you might have a few extra for Tuesday.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not a bug exactly
This behavior is pretty common in wiki formatting. Indented text is interpreted as “preformatted”, that is, not affected by line-breaking or markup interpretation. It’s used mostly by programmers when posting about code.
Now this feature is probably a bit out-of-place on a sports blog, but if a programmer sees this bug he’ll probably groan and change it grudgingly (or allow it to be configured). For whatever reason, the convention of indenting paragraphs never really caught on on the Internet, instead separating paragraphs with two carriage returns is more common.
by aldimond on Apr 20, 2008 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WGN's Cubs Special
A very tasteful set of highlights and anecdotes about our beloved Cubbies, if they replay it, be sure to catch it.
.... Edit #6: We're gonna go 156 and 6 this year, I can feel it!!!
by Beaushek on Apr 20, 2008 8:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
I imagine it’ll be put out on DVD though. Definitely gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I liked the stroy at the end with Sut and Grace and the fireworks going off at Cinci.
Over time, your quickness with a cocky rejoinder must have gotten you many punches in the face - Al Swearengen
by lemon20pie on Apr 20, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i liked it
especially because nearly every one of those clips are scenes from before I was born. It was really interesting to especially see how the bleachers have been expanded over the years
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
by Chanman25 on Apr 20, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want Soriano back
sorry folks, Murton, Pie no thanks, like mentioned we have beaten up the Pirates, better pitching is on the way, I will take my chances with Soriano in Left, Thank -you
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
by Grockcubs on Apr 20, 2008 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed..
My only gripe is I wish we would of stuck with Pie and center and Johnson in left until Sori gets back…I still believe there’s a lot of upside to Pie if given a fair chance…
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on Apr 20, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: WGN Cubs special
I haven’t shed a tear in many many years until I watched that. I might not live in Chicago anymore, but Wrigleyville and the Friendly Confines is def my home away from home. What a great way to end a very good day for the Cubs organization. Kudos to all of those involved.
I'm kind of a big deal
by chi-townbleacherbum on Apr 20, 2008 8:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Argghh!
I missed it! They shouldn’t have run it on the Jewish holiday – don’t they know people are at seders?
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the DVD of this production will eventually
be available….as the companion book is now. How could this NOT be made available for purchase? I think you were OK in being observant!
I think Jack Brickhouse deserved a bit more time….and certainly, there should have been more time spent with Lou Boudreau….Vince Lloyd…...I know that footage is in the vault…..that’s why I’, certain there will be a DVD with “footage not seen on TV,”
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 20, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WGN special
They are running it again on May 3rd at 7:00 according to the WGN website. I missed it also, so I set my DVR to catch it the next time it’s on.
by Kimanism on Apr 21, 2008 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for this!
I forgot to set my DVR last night, and was out all day. This way I can catch it for sure.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The special
was great. Especially at the end where everyone was saying they want to be there when the Cubs finally win it and how Chicago will go crazy when they do.
by sue369 on Apr 21, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to think
you’ll be stuck in Iowa canning vegetables.
by MDBNIU on Apr 21, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time running out.....?
Can’t see where Flex is going to make a contribution in the near future, and now time to play deal or no deal with those “other” teams out there…
by James031 on Apr 20, 2008 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Soriano stays on the DL
Great weekend. Pittsburgh is brutal, but a sweep is a sweep. Ryan Dempster has officially made me a believer. With less than his best stuff he still finds a way to win. Kudos also to Ryan Theriot who is starting to look like the ignitor on this ballclub. Reed Johnson is also playing sparkling baseball.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 9:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't get all this
On being glad Soriano is on the DL. Sure, he is not our best hitter. Derrek Lee, Aramis Ramirez, Kosuke Fukudome are all better hitters than Soriano. But he is a huge threat in our lineup, and he sure as hell is more productive than Matt Murton.
Yes, he does strike out alot, and yes, he does worry me a bit out in left field .. but he carried us for a good portion of 2007, when we could barely score runs.
But does ANYONE know what were the Cubs record after 18 games for the last 5-10 years?
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You can look that up on baseball-reference.com.
Year-to-year comparisons aren’t really fair, as the team is differently constituted AND the schedule each year is different (i.e. who you’re playing).
But, last year may be somewhat fair to compare, as you have a similarly consitituted team. Last year’s team was 7-11 after 18 games.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But I just wanted to know because it seems like it’s been a while since we have been this good, this early. I know, I know, we beat the Pirates. But tomorrow and Tuesday are big tests for us, and if we can split the series, or win both times (which we should facing Maine and Nelson F.), I think it proves that we are a better team, and perhaps the best team we’ve have constructed in this decade.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs started 12-6 in 2004
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2004_sched.shtml
The Cubs started 2004 6-6, but then had a 6-game winning streak which included a win against the Reds, a 2-game sweep against the Pirates, and a 3-game sweep against the Mets.
Al Spangler
by AlSpangler on Apr 20, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they finished with 89 wins
and should have probably had more. The 2004 team was a good one—but their collapse at the finish pretty much sours our opinion of them. Kind of like last year’s Mets.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano sucks, Murton sucks
It’s not a debate of one over the other. Personally, I’m ecstatic to not have to bear witness to Alfonso Soriano in the batter’s box for a few weeks. He will go down as one of the all time worst free agent signings in the history of the game. $136 million for a 30-something guess hitter with ever more frequent leg injuries.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't have
leg injuries often before he became a Cub. Hindsight is not 20/20.
I can think of plenty of other bad free agent contracts that are worse than this. More recently, I think the Andruw Jones signing was much worse than this.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, no
The Dodgers inked Andruw Jones to a 2 year, $35 million deal. Meanwhile Soriano was signed for a ridiculous 8 years, $136 million. 8 freakin years for a guess hitter who swings from his keester at every pitch and absolutely kills offensive momentum when he is in one of his patented awful cycles. I hope Sweet Lou has the gonads to drop him to the # 7 hole in the lineup where he properly belongs upon his return from the DL.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of contracts...
did anyone happen to catch Frank Thomas released?
This strikes me a so transparent. I’ve never seen a team with so much public turmoil over contracts. They claim to be serious about competing in the AL East, but when they’re not penny-pinching, they’re bitching about the money that they are paying.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Thomas thing was really ugly.
He’s owed a 10 million dollar option if he reaches 350 AB’s, so the manager comes and tells him his PT is going to be cut and benches him two straight games. Thomas wasn’t tearing it up, but I’d like to see the better options the Jays have. If that team isn’t going to honor the contracts, players are going to stop signing them.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The signing was pretty stupid to begin with.
Thomas, however, has a longtime reputation as a clubhouse malcontent. He was clearly hurting the team (4 for 35 ain’t great), and the 375 AB clause (not 350) had something to do with it, but not everything.
If he’d shut up and taken his benching for a couple days, maybe taken a little extra BP, he’d probably have found himself back in the lineup.
The team is absolutely honoring the contract. They’re paying him. They aren’t required to play him.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not the first.
Lilly made similar complaints, as did Shea Hillebrand and Troy Glaus. Thomas is a bit of a primadonna (and yes, I realize Hillebrand was, too), but the Jays management’s hands are not clean.
And the signing wasn’t that stupid. Thomas is pretty valuable as a DH, and Toronto has no appreciable option, even given Thomas’ slow start.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas didn't just bitch in Toronto.
He was a jerk when he was with the White Sox.
Matt Stairs can DH for the Jays.
The complaints by Lilly, Hillenbrand, Glaus (and others) happened because John Gibbons is a major league jerk It would not surprise me to see him fired by midseason.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Let’s not forget the whole Zaun/Barajas debacle. Did J.P. really need to go public like he did?
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No appreciable option.
Stairs won’t produce anything better than Thomas would’ve, but he’ll do it with less bitching. Thomas is a jerk, but Toronto has more problems that Gibbons, who is an asshat. The front office is not known for it’s honesty. Lilly was mad at Gibbons, at least in part, because he felt the manager was being unduly influenced by the front office to limit Lilly’s innings to avoid bonuses.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
J.P. seems to have not learned much in Economics or Marketing, ‘cause he keeps embarassing the franchise in both areas. And yes, I’m DYING to know what the Players Association thinks about all this.
The other interesting thing for me is that with Thomas available as a DH, doesn’t this end any remote chance of Bonds playing again this season?
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably, but...
... as I noted below, I doubt anyone’s going to grab Thomas, either.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering if the "better option"
is Barry Bonds. The Jays are desperate to win now.
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That'll be interesting to see.
I suppose that’s possible.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unbelievable
The Toronto Blue Jays and J.P. Riccardi have done many bizarre things in recent years. But this might take the cake. All I know is that Frank Thomas is a first ballot Hall of Famer who can still rake. Somebody in the American League will pick him up real quick.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who?
Of the other 13 AL teams, name one that needs a 40-year-old DH with a reputation of being a jerk.
And don’t say he can still play 1B, because he can’t. He hasn’t played 1B since 2004 (and only 4 games that year) and cannot play the field any more. He can barely run the bases and often has to be yanked in the late innings for a PR (despite hitting 26 HR and 30 doubles last year, he scored only 63 runs).
He’s done.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Despite the contract shenanigans, Toronto is winning the PR battle here. Given Thmas reputation and balky legs, he may well be done for good.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I’m not going to defend Frank Thomas. I’m going to guess that the Angels, Mariners, Rangers, and Orioles all inquire about his services. He got the short hairs in Toronto, no doubt about it. His history of being a malcontent is just that, history. All I know is that the guy will go down as one of the greatest right-handed hitting run producers the game has ever seen. And never even a hint of performance enhancing drugs in his playing career.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the Angels
They’ve got five outfielders and a backup first baseman. They don’t need a full-time DH.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers already did the old, broken-down slugger as DH thing...
... last year. The Mariners have a DH.
The Orioles? I guess, but what’s the point?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seattle
I bet you Thomas is on another team in 10 days, with Seattle the most likely choice,
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Seattle?
Just out of curiosity…
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cause if the Mariners actually got...
some decent production from 1B or DH, they might actually steal that division.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Sexson deal
is killing that team. What a disappointment.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jose Vidro
is their DH and he’s batting .221
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think they sign Thomas
instead of bringing up Clement?
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
because if they were ready to go with Clement, they’d have him in Seattle by now.
And I think they actually want him working on his defensive skills in the minors. Sticking him at DH in the majors might hurt his defensive skills behind the plate, which is the biggest concern with him.
Although personally, I think there’s no way Seattle catches the Angels, Thomas or no Thomas. And the Bedard trade is looking terrible right now. Might work out eventually, but it’s killing them right now.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right...
but they are still one of my darkhorse candidates for 2008, and I do think Thomas would help.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't checked in for a week or so..
I take it Wilkerson is still below the Mendoza line?
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andruw Jones
is a far worse player than Soriano is, and at the stage he is at now, he is more of a momentum killer than Soriano is.
Yes, 8 years is a bit much. But it won’t go down as one of the worst signings in history. You can mark my words on that.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Zito contract, IMO
is far worse than either the Jones or the Soriano deals, and let’s not even mention the deal Ned Colletti gave to Juan Pierre…
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
5 years and $45 million is worse than 8 years and $136 million for a 30 something guess hitter who is too often a splash of cold water on the Cub offense? This must be some of that “new math” I hear about.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano will continue
to be productive for a few years, despite your unfounded and bilious protestations. Zito is toast and that franchise can much less afford to absorb a bad contract than can the Cubs.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ding!Ding!Ding!...
We have a winner. He should be bearable for another season or two, with a ERA in the mid 4.00s. But they’ll be effectively paying 22 million per for a 5th starter by 2010.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody
who doesn’t think Soriano is gonna hit 280-300, with 35-40 HR this season is silly. This guy is gonna get hot and have a huge month, and carry this offense at some point this season. Too many fans on here have a short memory with Soriano. The guy is going to make everyone who bashed him look like idiots within the next month I bet. So it’s really silly and a waste of time to debate. Soriano is a pretty damn good player, and will be this season when it’s all said and done. How do you guys know Soriano wouldn’t have gotten hot this week, and the Cubs would have scored even more runs. It’s not like his replacements, Murton, Fontenot and Patterson hit the cover off the ball filling in for him.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the thing that worries me
is that soriano looks more like a 38 year old out there on the field these days and I worry he is going to age quickly and be awful by the end of his contract
by cubsmania on Apr 20, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's awful now
He’s a guess hitter. Just as soon as he loses a nanosecond or two of his bat speed the end will come like a fall from a cliff.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren't they all guess hitters.
After all, if everyone knew what was coming, then there’d be no reason to steal signs. Seems to me the essence of hitting a baseball is guessing.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol!
Well-played, gary.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Apr 20, 2008 10:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling your better veteren hitters
know what’s coming in a certain count, and if they do and don’t get a hit, it shows that sometimes the pitcher is pretty good out there.
"WGN, Channel 9 Cubs Baseball, Excitingly, Importantly, Dramatically Yours." - Jack Brickhouse
by BigJohnAZ on Apr 21, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Likely true,
but it’s largely a guessing game, especially with a pitcher like Maddux, who makes point of keeping the hitter off-balance. And, like you say, sometimes a hitter will look really bad because the pitcher is really good, even if it’s only for that day.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 21, 2008 8:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and he makes way too much money for a guess hitter too!
Those psychic hitters, now those are the ones we want.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Apr 20, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BlueMikes new
words for the week boys and girls is “guess hitter”. Maybe we can get him to repeat it 843 more times.
by sue369 on Apr 21, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No he doesn't
the guys legs looked very good before the injury. If he keeps having leg problems the Cubs might have to move him back to second, or to first base after Lee leaves in a few years.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you go one post without mentioning his contract?
Damn man.
On another note, where else would Soriano hit if he wasn’t leading off? The 5-hole? That’d be pretty cool
"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk
by NittanyCub on Apr 20, 2008 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very wrong, less wrong (but still wrong)...
Soriano most certainly does not suck. Is he overpaid? Absolutely. But a team like Chicago can afford to overpay. But he is WAY above average.
Murton also does not suck. He’s just mediocre. He is a slightly above-average hitter and slightly below-average fielder with only one position. He’s basically Jeff Conine. There are lots of guys like him that have varying degrees of success in MLB.
by SouthernCub on Apr 21, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great to see...
Ronny Cedeno have a good game today. His long at-bats (fouling off many good pitches) are showing that maybe the light has started to come on for him. Plus going to the opposite field shows some good adjustments to the pitching.
Right now, I would really like to see him and Theriot as the middle infield combo for the next few games. He may be ready to take off (finally) and help this team offensively.
If you think you've seen it all...just wait!
by CubFanSince1970 on Apr 20, 2008 9:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see Theriot have a career year, but...
...the main things he needs to do are play solid defense and get on base. If he’ll be more disciplined and get on base more then he can get more ABs at the top of the order. However, I still think it’s a mistake by Lou to bat Fukudome at 5 Theriot ahead of him. .
Soriano doesn’t get on base enough either to be lead off. I don’t expect Reed to keep it up…The Cubs as a team are getting on base more, it’s the main thing that this offense has lacked since Hendry took over. I hope that they keep it up. The Cubs can have a great HF advantage at Wrigley if they’d just work at getting on base more.
by DudeVf11 on Apr 20, 2008 9:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if...
... Johnson leading off has anything to do with Theriot hitting better in the 2 slot.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 20, 2008 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop with the $$$ of Soriano
What the hell was he supposed to do - NOT take the cash? As I have posted time and time again - and it should be obvious—a player’s salary is what the market will bear. It’s NOT reflective on a player’s talent. WE think it is, but it isn’t.
Soriano will deliver about what he usually delivers. He was in a fortunate position with a team who had the cash. Why bad mouth the guy? It’s absurd.
Just be glad you are not a Padres fan—a team with NO outfielders and wouldn’t even give some cash to keep an outfielder who wanted to stay. (Cameron) They only wish they were smart enough to find a last-minute pick-up like Reed Johnson. That guy is gold…....
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 20, 2008 9:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What?
You’re going to tell me who I can and can’t bad mouth? I’m not supposed to be unhappy about Soriano in a Cub uniform? I’m not supposed to be upset seeing him flail and hack away in the leadoff spot? I’m supposed to forget that he absolutely disappeared in the playoffs versus Arizona, despite having the tag of being a franchise player?
You damned right I’ll mention Soriano’s contract status when I damned well feel like it. Maybe you should join me in the 3rd base seats at Wrigley, because I guarantee I’m not the only Cub fan who is mega-frosted about Alfonso Soriano. There was an informal poll on one of the sports radio stations and over half the voters said the Cubs are better off without Soriano.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's ridiculous.
Without Soriano, the Cubs are watching the Brewers last year. I’m pretty sure he started off slow last season. Think what our lineup will be like with Lee back, Aramis, Soriano playing well, and Fuku. We’ll run away with this division.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 20, 2008 10:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So half the voters are wrong.
Big deal. Someone who thinks the Cubs are better off without a guy who, despite the injuries, will post a .280/30/90 line is just wrong.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've debated you on this topic
a short minute ago.
Yeah, Soriano contract is a rich one, and hell I wish we saved that money to get Santana, or something. But nonetheless, Soriano is a hell of a player.
Last year was down year and he posted an average alittle below .300 with over 30 HR. He was our sparkplug for the last part of the year. I don’t see how you can deny that.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soriano is a stats whore
I could really care less what his personal stats wind up being on the back of his bubblegum card. For every two weeks of Soriano being hotter than crap there are four of him being saboteur to the Cub offense. Let him go put up glossy numbers for the Washington Nationals. We’re here to produce a World Series championship, not live and die on the vagaries of a guess hitter.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait,
so, despite you throwing off his contract numbers and just now saying that Soriano is hot for 2 weeks and “crap” for 4, that he’s a stat whore? What is a stat whore, exaclty, and what does that mean? That a person contributes good numbers in a season. You’re saying that despite him putting up great numbers last year, we should ignore it because he’s a stat “whore”? What’s the difference between him and Lee, Ramirez, or Fukudome becoming a whore of stats?
GOOD GOD THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BEFORE YOU POST IT!!! YOU’RE MAKING ABSOLUTELY NO DAMN SENSE!!
"I think Hendry still has a few years to serve on his 'grand larceny' sentence before he can shop in Pittsburgh again" - ballhawk
by NittanyCub on Apr 20, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa was a stats whore too
The chemically enhanced Sosa did many good things for the Cubs. But he also posted a lot of his numbers when the Cubs were 246 games out of 1st place and when the score of the game was 11-2. If the objective is to see who has the sexiest numbers on the back of the bubblegum card, then Soriano is probably right up your alley. I on the other hand care about offensive production that goes hand in hand with the Cub TEAM winning baseball games and a World Series.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, since it's Sosa's and Soriano's faults all by themselves that the Cubs lost.
They don’t pitch, or catch, or play every position at the same time? Selfish stat whores!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Apr 20, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can a baseball player be a stat whore?
And not be “productive” as you put it?
This isn’t basketball. Alfonso isn’t chucking the ball off the opponent’s backboard to get more rebounds.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on Apr 21, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how your proof is that sports talk radio callers said so.
Well, I’m convinced!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
by northsider on Apr 20, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, bash away, if it makes you feel better.
I’ve had my targets in the past, such as certain pitchers, but that was after many, many problems. Soriano delivered just about what was to be expected last year. I think you are expecting him to be a superstar. He’s not. Soriano is an accomplished major leaguer who was in the right spot at the right time to be offered the contract he has. With big contracts, come over-inflated expectations.
He’s not a HOF player. People seem to think he is. When he returns, he’s probably going to deliver what he usually does. If you, and those other talk-show callers are surprised about what a free-swinger he is, you probably haven’t paid attention to what his past career has been like.
And, I think you’d admit the playoff loss to the D-Backs pretty much lies on everybody on the 2007 Cubs, not just Soriano. To blame that series on him—I’m sorry, I just don’t see that at all.
And remember, Sports Radio exists on controversy. Without it, there’s nothing. If such stations existed in the early 70’s I guarantee people would have been saying that Ernie Banks was ‘washed-up’ and ‘over-the-hill.’ Even a future Hall-Of-Famer would have taken hits from angry fans…..
And, I’d love to join you in the 3rd base seats at Wrigley. That’s a given.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 20, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've been arguing with BlueMike.
This is not only pointless, but if you continue to do it, he’ll say something that will, for the FIFTH time, force me to ban him from this site.
Actually, go ahead. That’d be great theater.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at these
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3993
Stop with the Soriano stuff, it’s really silly. What was the guys OPS the last two years? Enough said.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
over half the fans voting that poll on the radio are idiots. Their going off Soriano struggling the first two and half weeks of the season. If Soriano was off to a red hot start, they would be freaking out saying get him back int he line-up. There are way too many stupid fans out there who overreact, if a player is struggling for a few weeks. Even though Soriano average is bad, he’s still 2 HR and 4 RBI ahead of his numbers a year ago at this time, and will be for the rest of the month even with missing half the month. Don’t buy in to those stupid fans comments, Soriano is a heck of a baseball player, if he misses the rest of the year were not going to make the playoffs. We need Soriano, and his bat will carry us at some point.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are they saying in sunny SD about the
Padres’ power outage? I heard somewhere they’ve only hit 6 HR as a team? Yikes. Hoffman might surrender that many before the week’s out!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Today's SD Union Tribune
Columnist Tim Sullivan: (before Sunday’s game)
“It’s probably too late to expect much in the way of improvement. Granted, it’s early, but one-ninth of the season is in the books and the Padres have hit one more home run collectively than has the Cubs Derrick Lee individually. There are simply just not enough quality pieces in place to sustain a consistant attack.”Jim Edmonds, R.I.P. He’s about as done as it gets.
by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Apr 20, 2008 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't believe they signed him.
Edmonds was done LAST year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will never understand that...
from where I was sitting they could have paid 500k-1,000,000 more, and gotten Johnson, or coughed up a decent prospect and plucked Murton once Reed signed with us. They chose neither.
I dont get it.
by Damen Jackson on Apr 20, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because...
I’ll let you in a little secret. Matt Murton isn’t any good. Notice that 29 teams didn’t exactly beat a path to Jim Hendry’s door trying to acquire Murton in the offseason. Not much of a market for a one position player who is poor fielder, doesn’t run well, doesn’t hit for power and doesn’t drive in runs.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murton
I’m a long-time supporter of his, but I’m very frustrated with his play since arriving back. I know it’s only been two games, but for crying out loud, learn to take a pitch or two! He’s less selective than he used to be. All of his ST hits were singles, which is very worriesome.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Dennis Green would say...
“Matt Murton is who we think he is…” Why then so much weeping and gnashing of teeth over this guy? He’s a 26 year old player destined to spend his career shuttling back and forth between Triple A and the big league club, and probably for a steady stream of different organizations.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what's the magic number?
joking, joking.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 20, 2008 10:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My final word on Soriano
It’s not lost on Sweet Lou that the Cub offense has started to really click just as soon as Alfonso Soriano went to the DL and we stopped pretending Felix Pie belongs in the lineup. Reed Johnson and Ryan Theriot combined make less than Soriano’s dry cleaning bill, yet have formed a dynamic ignitor duo at the top of the lineup.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not a chance
that this is your last word on Soriano.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on Apr 20, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should be so lucky.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
by dat cubfan daver on Apr 21, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dynamic Igniter Duo!!!
that phrase is definitely a keeper! When Johnson comes back to earth and Theriot comes back to lower than that, and Soriano is back to his norm, I’m gonna start calling for the Dynamic Igniter Duo!!
by philadelphiacub on Apr 20, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back to his norm?!?!
What’s that?!? Close eyes and swing at every pitch, proceed to get hot / lucky for two weeks, followed by four weeks of suckage to start the cycle all over again?!? Oh goody goody. I can hardly wait to see Soriano resplendent in his voodoo paint under the eyeballs striking out on 3 pitches or failing to advance the runner in hopes of him blasting 15 home runs in a 10 day period and bulking up his stats on the back of his Topps’ bubblegum card. But wait, it gets better !!! When the playoffs arrive he’ll be the easiest out in the Cub lineup, to the point where he make Felix Pie seem like the second coming of Ted Williams !!!
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel stupider...
...for reading this.
Dan
Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
by dtpollitt on Apr 20, 2008 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
..don't you understand
that it’s your stupid over-generalizations and irrelevant material that loses you all credibility? Obviously Soriano doesn’t hit like that or else his stats would be much lower. What does “voodoo paint under the eyeballs” have to do with anything????? He obviously never hit 15 HR in a 10 day period. I’m going to use exclamation marks to make myself sound more credible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111one
Why do you always exaggerate things like this? Do you really think it will make intelligent people listen to you more? Is over-generalizing and spewing out things that are completely untruthful somehow going to make us want to believe that you’re telling the truth more? I really don’t understand your logic when you try to argue in the way you do.
by ecbc on Apr 21, 2008 4:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're actually suggesting...
That Soriano saves up all his “stat production” for 3 weeks of meaningless games? That he could hit, but just doesn’t want to?
Put down the XBox controller, buddy. Don’t work like that.
"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman
by Bildo1805 on Apr 21, 2008 9:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get
why some Cubs fans are expecting Reed Johnson to fall apart. Didn’t he hit 319 with a 390 OBP in his last healthy year? Why is everyone assuming that was a fluke, it’s not like the guy has had a long career. Maybe at the age of 29 he just improved as a ML hitter, like alot of hitters do. Sure his 04-05 seasons were kinda average, but he did have a solid rookie season at 294/353/780 as well. The point is you can’t call a year a fluke until the guy has a chance to repeat it or not. Last season wasn’t a fair chance to repeat it, when he hurt his back in the first week of the season, and didn’t come back at 100 percent in the second half. Now the guy is 100 percent healthy again so lets see what he can do. I just don’t think we should be waiting for Johnsons numbers to drop alot, when the guy hit 319 in his last health year. Lets remember Derrek Lee was around a 270s hitter until the age of 29 as well. Again I’m not comparing the two guys as players, but both had “career” years at the age of 29, then both got hurt the next season. Lee hitting 317 last year, and hitting so well this year showed that his 05 season wasn’t a fluke and he has improved at the plate. So maybe Johnson will show the same. It’s almost like people think this guy sucks, because the Blue Jays gave him away for nothing, so they think there must be something wrong with him. Well thats a silly reason because teams do stupid stuff like that all the time. They just benched and released Frank Thomas a few weeks into the season and ate his big salary this season. Which is a pretty stupid thing for a team who wants to contend do to IMO. Especially when that guy has had OPS of 926 and 857 the last two years and has started slow in years past. So it seems like the Blue Jays are doing alot of stupid things lately. Don’t let the Cubs getting Reed Johnson that way, be something against him as a player.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's something else about Johnson..
.... here’s that “can’t be measured on a stat sheet” thing again. He seems genuinely glad to be out of Toronto and playing for the Cubs. Can that help you play above your “established level of performance”? I would argue that it can. Michael Barrett talked about this in his first year with the Cubs—how playing in front of 40,000 every year, instead of 5,000 disinterested people in Montreal, got his adrenaline going and, in fact, he had his best offensive season in 2004.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lot of positives with Johnson...
...the guy clearly wants to impress the Cubs, and hopefully put himself in a position to get a contract beyond this year. Also, the guy is a battler by nature, who is going to give you everything he has without pause. You do have the ingrediants here, of a player who could very well produce (for a period of time) above his major league average.
Even if he only produces at this average, that is not a bad thing. Johnson is the type of player who will not do stupid things to cost you games, and how he does over the next month or so, could really determine what the Cubs do in regards to trades in June or July.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on Apr 21, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Johnson
I think Reed Johnson has a decent chance of being a guy with enough OBP to leadoff everyday. I’m not expecting him to fall totally apart. I am expecting his performance to fall back quite a bit with the NL adjusts to him, but I do think he has a chance of being good.
I know you qualified your Derrek Lee comparison, but comparing them more, I think, helps show why there are legitimate concerns about Johnson.
1. Derrek was once a #15 BA top prospect and made the majors at 21; Johnson only made the majors at 26.
2. D-Lee’s former home park in FL is brutal on offense. His Age 24-27 seasons were actually very good when adjusted for the park. On the other hand, Toronto is a boon for offense. To cherry-pick some bad stats, in 2004, RJ hit .240/.290/.303 away from Canada.
Look, you point to the reasons to have hope for Johnson, and that hope may pan out. But in RJ’s first 5 seasons, he had more where his OBP was under .335 (in a hitter’s home park) than above it.
As for Toronto – I think judgment on the Frank Thomas move has to be delayed till we see how this plays out a little more. Who ends up replacing Thomas on that roster – we know it’s not going to be Rod Barajas at DH.
by DGU on Apr 21, 2008 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are your serious?
The Cubs offense scored 23 runs against the Pirates in the last series with Soriano. So they did score 6 more runs in this series, but there also has been alot nicer weather. Are you seriously trying to say the offense has done better because Soriano has been out of the line-up? Do you realize from last Tuesday to Saturday we have gotten a combined 2 for 23 out of the leadoff spot from Fontenot,Patterson and Johnson(only lead off once). Today Reed Johnson had a good day going 2 for 5 out of the leadoff spot. So overall the Cubs have gotten 4 for 28 out of the leadoff spot since Soriano has been out.. Do you really think Soriano would have been that bad or even worse then that? This Cubs are better without Soriano is crap, and just stirred up by the media, and overreacting fans. It’s time to realize Soriano is a good baseball player, and any smart baseball fan knows without a doubt that Soriano in the line-up makes the Cubs better. So don’t buy into the media hype or the overreacting fans hype because it’s really silly BS.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diamondbacks
I know you’re not talking to me, Al, when you refer to the statheads who doubt Theriot. I’m doubtful but hopeful about him. I think the Cubs trying to make him a switch hitter screwed up his development and it’s possible he may be living up to his potential now. It’s Fontenot who I think shouldn’t be in the majors.
But hey, are you willing to admit you might have been wrong about the Diamondbacks yet? Sticking to fourth place on them (and first for the Dodgers?) I’m beginning to think that us and the Diamondbacks are the only good teams in the league. The Brewers are pretty good except their bullpen is terrible, and now Sheets is hurt. The Mets are getting old, fast. The Phillies have no pitching and the Braves have no bullpen either (and not enough bats.)
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Diamondbacks are scary good.
Do you think the Shark will make any contributions to the team this year? And do you think he will project as a top of the line pitcher if he reaches his ceiling?
For us to match up with the Diamondbacks is if Rich Hill peforms like he did for the first part of last year, and the end of 2006 .. but even then I would still like to acquire another pitcher—a #2 pitcher. But the market is kinda dry.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think if Samardzija pitches for the Cubs this year, it will be as a September call-up.
It is possible he’s in the rotation next year though. He “projects” as a #2 starter, but there is a long way between what he is now and that projection, more so than most projects. He won’t be there next season.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 20, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Samardzija is probably a couple years away....
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
now I don't know much about our minor league system
but his ETA is around 2009. He is a couple years away from his potential, though.
by Unique on Apr 20, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2009 is next year.
He might get a September callup this year.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Diamondbacks are wicked good
And they’re going to get better with time. Stephen Drew, Justin Upton, Chris Young, Mark Reynolds and Connor Jackson have just begun to scratch the surface. Combine that with two aces in Brandon Webb and Danny Haren, not to mention Micah Owings, and they are in my mind the clearly superior team in the NL.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I may have been wrong about the D'backs, yes.
I still think they’re playing a little over their heads. But they might wind up as the class of that division—and I still think four teams there could finish over. 500 (they’ll all be beating up on the Giants).
Your analysis of Theriot - that he may be finally reaching his potential now that that ill-advised switch-hitting experiment is over - may be spot on.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm with Al
in thinking that the D-Back’s offense is playing a little over its head right now.
What worries me about them is that they don’t need to offense to be performing the way it has been. Their pitching is solid and should scare anyone having to play them in the playoffs.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on Apr 21, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The D'backs...
... ought to be worried about Randy Johnson, who appears to be just about done.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't matter
Anything the D’Backs get out of Randy Johnson is a bonus. Right now he is a 5th starter on that ballclub. And when / if Doug Davis returns to form from his battle with cancer then Johnson has no role.
by MDBNIU on Apr 21, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of good
The Mets are good too, and I’m nervous about the Cubs facing that lineup. Just watched them vs. the Phils on ESPN. There are few weakneses in their batting order. It will be very interesting to see how the Cub pitchers perform against them this week.
"Hey hey, kiss it goodbye! That one's in Milwaukee! Man oh man did he hit it. Isn't that something?" - Lou Boudreau, May 17, 1979
by danimal15 on Apr 20, 2008 10:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bring on the Mets
Their 4 best hitters - Jose Reyes, Carlos Delgado, Carlos Beltran and David Wright - are a combined 8-for-47 lifetime against Big Z. ... and we’ve pounded John Maine pretty good..
"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball"
by Bump Bailey on Apr 20, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Delgado is hitting .215.
I’m not scared of him any more. Wright, Beltran and Reyes are good—but the rest of that lineup doesn’t really worry me.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pagan
Don’t forget about their All-Star new heart of the team Angel Pagan. Whatever team he came from….
by ak123 on Apr 21, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried about Pagan, either.
He’s playing WAY over his head.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya think?
Angel Pagan’s not going to win a batting title? That’s surprising. :-)
That’s the thing about the Mets though. They’ve got Wright (who may be the best player in baseball not named Alex Rodriguez), Reyes, Beltran and Johan Santana. After that, they’ve got a bunch of has beens and never-wases. I thin a lot of us were so dazzled by the Mets big four that we weren’t looking at the little 21. They may still win the division (because those big four are really good) but I like us, the Brewers and the Diamondbacks better than the Mets for the class of the NL.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on Apr 21, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot bashing
I’ve said more than my fair share of negative things about Theriot, so I’ll bite. I’m glad to see him hitting, and in general, I’m all for playing the hot hand.
At the same time, to my very untrained eyes, it seems like Theriot is missing balls a decent SS should get in the field. In other words, he may be starting rallies at the plate, but he’s also extending them on the field – for the other team.
One other odd thing about Theriot – I expected with the double serieses v. Pitt that he might have start to the year, if he faced enough LHP – but so far, in the season Theriot’s hitting RHP a lot better than LHP. A reminder that anything can happen in just a few weeks worth of games.
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 10:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Theriot is not a good shortstop
I am big fan of Theriot, and am dutifully impressed with his hitting right now. His glove on the other hand is subpar. I think most people acknowledge that, to include Sweet Lou.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Lou acknowledges it,
why does he play Theriot at SS when Cedeno plays?
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because theriot is better than cedeno
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 20, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Theriot....
there has to be a lot of behind the scenes info we just don’t have access to. I.E. his off season preparation for this year, how hard he practices and studies the game. How willing he is to heed the advice of the coaches. Plus, the X factor of playing on a college team that won it all. That’s big game experience that might give him the slight edge over someone like Cedeno. Being able to perform under pressure is a good quality that is hard to categorize. He is still very immature in terms of professional baseball, so obviously people in our organization saw enough potential in him that he might just prove all the naysayers wrong and have a big year.
I'm kind of a big deal
by chi-townbleacherbum on Apr 20, 2008 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cedeno sucks
I’ll take Ryan Theriot 100 times out of 100 over Ronny Cedeno.
by MDBNIU on Apr 20, 2008 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cedeno sucks?
I think he’s improved a lot since last year. I can tell he’s been working hard on his hitting. I see him working counts a lot more this year and making the pitchers throw a lot of pitches. I wouldn’t go as far as to say he sucks. The only thing that makes me cringe when I watch Ronny is his decisions in the field.
Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.
by Bricks and Ivy on Apr 20, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ronny overthrows a ball here and there
but he has a greater range than Theriot. We see Cedeno’s overthrows and they are maddening. Meanwhile, Theriot gets his uni dirty diving for balls that a real SS would catch standing up and no one gets mad, they just praise his grit.
by DGU on Apr 20, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Cedeno sucks
Because everytime I jump on the Cedeno bandwagon he makes a bonehead play. Not just a bonehead play where you’re like “okay, that could happen”...he makes a play that makes you wonder why he’s even taking space on the 40 man roster. If he can get over that, we’re going to have a great year out of him I think.
by ak123 on Apr 21, 2008 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cedeno
does look better. But Lou has put Cedeno in situations were he could be successful this year. The guy has done well, but it’s also only been 20 AB’s. I noticed Lou has been playing against pitchers he has had success with in the past, and LH pitchers mostly. So I gotta see more from Cedeno to say he’s better then in years past right now. But his AB’s do seem alot better then a year ago. As for Theriot defense, I don’t often look at defense range stats. But from watching Theriot play he doesn’t seem as awful as many stat people say. The guy looks like a decent/ok defender to me, and makes all the basic plays. I haven’t heard many people say negative things about Theriot defense, besides some on these message boards.I actually just read last night on another message board that Theriot range has improved slighty. Another funny thing about Theriot is the national opinion and other teams opinion about him is much better then what alot Cubs fans think of him I noticed.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely Right
I can put my money on anyone watching the ESPN broadcast of the Mets/Cubs tomorrow that the focus will be on 2 people:
-DLee for his Homeruns and Theriot. Ryan Theriot seems to get the spotlight stats for his hard work on ESPN and FOX.
The major defensive difference between Theriot and Cedeno I’ve noticed actually has a lot to do with Ramirez. A-Ram I think is kinda lazy at 3rd. Last year he had some nice glove work but overall he’s not going to move for a ball too far out of his range. Cedeno was quicker to make some nice defensive plays with balls that go past Ramirez. Theriot doesn’t seem to be able to have as much of the range. Theriot is able to block the ball from getting ot the outfield and perhaps stopping a double but he’s not usually able to also throw a guy out at first. That being said I’d still take Theriot over Cedeno.
by ak123 on Apr 21, 2008 1:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
12-pitch AB the other day
resulting in a walk. Then going with the pitch he singles in two on a broken-bat play. Let’s just hope the kid has turned the corner.
by blackhawk24 on Apr 21, 2008 7:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
Theriot struggled alot worse at SS when he first got there. Until some games in the last week I believe Theriot defense has been pretty solid at SS. The Cubs feel his defense will be better at SS, the longer they keep him there. Shift him around the infield and putting him back in at SS would only make his defense worse. There’s no true way to judge defense from things I have heard, I never heard the Cubs or anybody but Cubs fans say anything negative about Theriots defense.
by cubsfan25 on Apr 21, 2008 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Theriot's range is limited.
If Cedeno can ever learn to play smart baseball, he’ll be a fine starting SS in the major leagues.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen, though.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on Apr 21, 2008 4:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious what other people are seeing.
By “limited” do you mean “detrimental,” “average,” or where in between?
by DGU on Apr 21, 2008 6:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See the way I look at it -
Theriot seems to make the plays he gets to. To me, it’s that he seems to not get to a lot of balls hit to SS. So, I’m not sure how he improves there, unless you think he is working on getting a better first step, a better read or what have you.
by DGU on Apr 21, 2008 6:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For anybody that missed...
“CUBS FOREVER” on WGN, it will be re-aired on Saturday, May 3rd at 7:00 PM C.T. It was very well presented and a sure watch for all Cub fans. It brought back alot of memories.
by montecarlo on Apr 21, 2008 12:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I missed it for Passover. I think I’m going to buy the DVD version (if they make one) when it comes out. If WGN doesn’t make a DVD version (legality issues of course being something?) I think that’s a poor business move on their end, they could make a nice little revenue from that.
by ak123 on Apr 21, 2008 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I has a man crush.
And his name is Ryan Theriot.
/That is all
"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry
by Jayo525 on Apr 21, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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