Overflow Thread: Cubs vs. Nationals, Sunday 4/27, 12:35 CT
by Al Yellon on Apr 27, 2008 2:27 PM CDT
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PrintI knew I forgot something today. Here's your overflow thread.
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Not a good day for Chicago
Cubs – currently in a bad game
White Sox – might lose to Baltimore
Bears – what the hell is Angelo thinking?
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
since I only care about one of those situations
and the game is not over yet I am not ready to say it’s not a good day….
by LT on Apr 27, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I personally am a big fan of the draft
I don’t think Andre Woodson will be any good in the NFL, and he’s likely the QB we’d have taken. Williams is great, Forte looks good. It’s a thin year for QBs in the draft and its not worth it to take a QB just for the sake of taking a QB.
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Apr 27, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Thought I'd join the game thread.
Didn’t really like what I saw in the other one. There are ways to criticize what the Cubs have done today without simply bitching.
That said, this team has failed to take advantage of numerous opportunities today. Does that mean they suck? No, it means they failed. Happens even to good teams.
There are two innings left. Let’s win.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Here, here.
There are two innings left. Let’s win.
It ain’t over til it’s over. And I don’t hear Johnny Estrada singing yet.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Thank you Al
I have been avoiding the site today, only because I knew what was being said. Thanks for being the voice of reason.
by louslovechild on Apr 27, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
You mentioned in the pre-game
that the Cubs might try to work some counts against Lannan, and that’s been largely absent. I think Lou might want to try and get everyone to just settle down and get back to what was working. THis team seems really tigh today and roping line drive around the park that seem to end up in gloves isn’t helping their confidence. Let’s get some walks and see what develops. Also, I’d like to see Lannan exit this game.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Although...
... Lannan has walked three, and the Cubs left RISP in two consecutive innings with less than two out.
There’s the difference in this game.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Yep.
Too many left on base. That DP really sucked the air out of the team, it seemed like.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
7 left in 7 innings.
Too many.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Ick.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Should have scored 3-4 runs out of all that...
... in the 5th and 6th.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
At least.
This team seems to not get that with a guy on third and less than two outs, you need to elevate the ball.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Here's the thing.
Pitchers have at least as much control over their ground ball to fly ball rate as hitters do, if not more. And pitchers know that with a guy on third and less than two outs, you want to get ground balls. It’s not like they’re putting the ball on a tee for those guys.
True.
But this team, apart from a couple guys, seem to have very poor pitch selection and it becomes a glaring deficiency in those situations.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
but who's the arbiter of what's bitching and what's just rationally criticizing
nobody tells people they’re being too positive, it’s just a blurry line
by dogcatratcheese on Apr 27, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Why would you tell someone they're being too positive?
For example, gary varsho’s post above is a good example of rationally criticizing.
Just saying “they suck” isn’t.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
i'm not saying you should tell people they're being too positive, i'm saying nobody does, so why tell people they're being too negative
the problem with saying “they suck” isn’t that it’s negative, it’s that it’s illogical. my point is that there should be room for all sorts of dissent, it’s ok for sue to say “poop”, why is that not bitching. i’m most likely taking this way too seriously, but i try to look at it like the cubs are America, and we’re the People, i like to think that in america people have the right to dissent, and more to the point, it’s frustrating to me when people spend more time complaining about how someone complained than the people that originally complained.
by dogcatratcheese on Apr 27, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't see "poop" as bitching...
... I see it as reacting to something bad that happens on the field.
It’s the difference between saying “YOU suck” and “THIS SITUATION sucks”.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Exactly.
And phrased much better than the way my comment was developing!
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
saying "this situation sucks" is still bitching, how is it not?
by dogcatratcheese on Apr 27, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
It's not bitching.
It’s reacting to an event.
You can say, “It sucked that Theriot struck out”, which it does.
Continually saying “Theriot sucks”, what purpose does that serve?
Now do you see the difference?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
firstly, i still say it's your opinion, your judgment that saying "this situation sucks" isn't bitching, but i agree with you
about your “theriot sucks” point, look in the last thread at the way i reacted to that EXACT comment.
by dogcatratcheese on Apr 27, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll have a look later.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Because positivity makes people feel good
and negativity makes them feel bad.
by californiachicagoan on Apr 27, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Missed Chances Suck
Not cashing in RISP has historically been a problem with this club, and seeing it occur again is an ominous sign. I find it hard to accept that this year’s model is different (read: better at runs scored) when the same problems plague the team and there is no evidence to support things will change. And if that makes me Debbie Downer then so be it.
Too Much Still Dependent On
“catching breaks”, whereas the good teams make their own luck to an extent by not leaving so many on base. When the Cubs can get ‘em in consistently then I’ll start believing they can win a pennant.
Good teams take advantage of breaks.
The Cubs didn’t, for the most part, last year. This year, so far, they have—mostly.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
You mean...
... the five-game and six-game winning streak aren’t evidence of this having changed?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
No
April and May are the times when the pretenders look good, run off win streaks against bottom feeders and strong clubs with injuries. I want to see how the Cubs do against the cream of the crop before I start seriously thinking things are better.
That's not unreasonable.
However, there’s nothing wrong with getting off to a good start, either. Wins now count just as much as wins in September.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Pitching Change!
IN: 45 Sean Marshall LHP
I love me some Sean.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
How did you spot him?
I’m impressed anyone could pick him out in a crowd.
; )
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Sean Marshall on
to give the Nats a taste of their own medicine. Lannan reminds me a lot of Marshall
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Are they singing sweet caroline?
“so good! so good! so good!” really grates on my nerves.
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Apr 27, 2008 2:42 PM CDT reply actions
They really need to keep this game at 2-0.
Got a good feeling IF they can do that.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Yeah.
That Nationals bullpen is, well, less than stellar.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Maybe the Cub were lookng past this game a bit,
to a couple days off and then the big series versus the Brew Crew. They need to get their heads back in it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Good boy, Sean.
A little too many 3-2 counts for my liking, but he got the job done.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Time for some runs
2-3-4
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Apr 27, 2008 2:48 PM CDT reply actions
Nice job by Sean.
Runs! Get some runs!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Lilly looked much better today
He pitched well enough to win, but it’s tough to win when your team is shut out. Hitting tends to be contagious, and a lot of the Cubs are in a funk right now. Tomorrow’s day off is coming at the right time.
Having said that, they have 6 outs left to get two runs—just a bloop and a blast. I’m calling Ramy for the blast.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I'm holding you to that Ramy HR RIGHT NOW!!
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Glad to see Lannan out of the game.
He’s thrown well this year, and the Cubs were mostly off balance.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Tell Y'all What
For the sake of the majority I’ll go back to “lurk” mode.
All things considered BCB is still a better place than NSBB…now THERE’S a fatalist’s haven if ever there was! At least I don’t call for Hendry to get the John the Baptist treatment on a daily basis!
This guy's a bit erratic.
Cubs need to make him throw strikes. Be patient!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Exactmundo
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
How about a HR?
And just avoid RISP all together
by Shanghai Badger on Apr 27, 2008 2:54 PM CDT reply actions
haha who's listening to Ron?
Ron:what’s the word for that railroad…..thing…..ummm….?
Pat: Subway?
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Apr 27, 2008 2:54 PM CDT reply actions
is it me or did John Rausch put on about 75lbs....?
...I remember him as a beanpole
Felix Pie must play everyday!
Shoot.
That low pitch has been a strike all day.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
True.
This whole crew have had really erratic zones, though. MLB’s gotta do something…though I have no suggestions!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
HA!
Perfect! Loving the Simpsons drops!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
This guy's giving out
the Greg Maddux strikezone to everyone, for some odd reason.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
He's been consistent, at least.
When an umpire does this, the hitters have to adjust. The Cubs haven’t.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Yep.
Too bad Sori’s not playing. That pitch is his bread-and-butter!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
haha, so true.
And you know he’d like to beat Washington too.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
I think this is the first time...
... in the entire time he’s been out that someone here has actually wanted him back.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
LOTSA CHANGES
IN: 34 Kerry Wood RHP
IN: 17 Mike Fontenot 2B
MOVE: 5 Ronny Cedeno SS
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Well, let's
hope we hold them here and come back to score 3-4 runs in the 9th and hold them in the bottom fo the 9th.
Go Cubs!!
Maybe he has BCB up on his laptop screen!
Hi, Len!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Wood had a nice easy inning.
Let’s go get ‘em!
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Nine pitches.
That’s all Wood needed to take care of the inning. Well played, sir.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Indeed.
Now he can pitch the last of the 9th after the Cubs take the lead.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Wow.
Efficient inning for Kerry. Well done.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Looks like Rauch
has a VERY flat fastball, 92. Come on guys.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Yeah.
Not a lot of movement on the fastball
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Rauch has some real wacky looking tattoos.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
and the 14 nats fans in the stadium are on their feet
------ TheRiot Squad ------
by RightFieldSucks on Apr 27, 2008 3:08 PM CDT reply actions
Wow, that was a terrible pitch he struck out on.
Off to contemplate what to write in the recap.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Cubs committed a shutout for the first time yesterday
and get shut out for the first time today.
Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager
Ack.
An ugly swing to end an ugly game. Rest up and get the Brewers. I’m back to paper-writing. Thanks for the procrastination opportunity!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Had our chances today...
RISP.
RISP.
RISP.
by cublessinmilwaukee on Apr 27, 2008 3:11 PM CDT reply actions
The bright side... (and there is one)
The Cubs, even though they’ve lost 3 of 4, are still in first place. They have a much needed day off tomorrow, then a home series vs. the Brewers—and they’ve been great at home.
Also, Lilly pitched well, Wuertz’s slider looked better, Kerry looked like Kerry, and there weren’t any bad plays defensively.
Hitting is the most consistent aspect of baseball, and it’s very likely that 5 guys will get red-hot at home.
Let’s put this one in the rear view mirror and go get the Brewers on Tuesday.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
Look.
The spread in talent between major league ballclubs is pretty small when you take a step back and look at it from a distance; the Nationals only look like a really bad ballclub when you compare them to other major league teams. And even then, we tend to exaggerate the difference in quality between two teams.
Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. The good teams tend to win more and the bad teams tend to lose more, but that’s over a 162 game season. In ONE game, any team in the majors, even the Giants, has enough talent to win.
It’s not a problem about “being in their heads,” or being tired, or being mentally weak, or whatever character defects the armchair shrinks like to ascribe to sheer random chance. This happens, and it happens all the time. The difference between the best and worst record in baseball last season was only sixty games of 162.
What you do is you tip your cap to the other team, and you move on to play the next game.
Exactly.
The old saying goes, everyone wins 1/3 of their games, everyone loses 1/3, it’s what you do with the other 1/3 that makes the difference.
Count this as the 1/3 that’s just one of those lost games.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
agreed, however
should have won at least another one against this team though..
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
There are going to be games this team should win but won't.
But there will also be games they should lose that they’ll win. It doesn’t always even itself out over the season, but normally it does. So far the Cubs have won as many games as they “should have,” according to the Pythagoran theorum, so I’m not really concerned about it yet.
shit
and there goes Andre Woodson to the Giants
way to go Angelo..
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
But we got a new DT!
So, now the Bears have 6 safeties, 5 DT’s (Oshinowo, Adams, Harris, Dvoracek, and the new guy, and it’s actually 6 if you count Idonije), and 4 TE’s (Olsen, Clark, Gilmore, and the new guy). Jerry Angelo, what are you doing?
I’m not sold on Woodson, as I think he’s still pretty raw, but it would’ve been nice to see the Bears try and get Henne or Brohm.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Our defense did suck last season, you know.
Dvoracek was awful last season. And sure, we had six safeties, but a Venn diagram of the Bears safeties from last season that was sorted into “Healthy” and “Good” would have had minimal overlap at best.
Quarterback is not the biggest problem the Bears have right now, and without a good support system, it does not matter who is playing QB. Getting a good line and some weapons is a bigger priority. The tight end does confound me a little, but whatever.
How can you say Dvoracek was awful last season?
He didn’t play. He was hurt. He was pretty good in preseason, but there’s always the competition concern there. Indict him for his health issues, but there’s no way you can say he was awful in season in which he didn’t play. the defense was bad because Lovie kept playing Archuleta and Nat Vasher and Tillman spent time hurt, not because there was a depth problem. QB is not the biggest, the biggest is that an offense predicated on play-action passing got no run production, partly because of a poor o-line and partly because the RB’s sucked. I’m glad Angelo shored up the o-line and I like the Forte pick, but drafting a DT and a S is just superfluous and silly, and I loved Stultz’ play at LSU last year. I think he is a susceptible in pas coverage as Archuleta is, though he’s a much smarter player, IMO.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
I remember last season
when everyone was saying that we needed an OL man, but Angelo refused to get one until I think the sixth round. Look at our offensive line last season as a re
2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?
What's up with Beekman, anyway?
If he’s that bad, why did Angelo draft him? And if he’s not that bad, then why didn’t he play?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Beekman's a guard/center...
...which was not the problem with the line last season. We needed to upgrade at the tackles.
Not sure how that's relevant,
since I made no mention of him playing tackle. At any rate, he should’ve played when the season was lost, especially if they knew they were going to cut Ruben Brown. I’m not very comfortable with the idea of Metcalf in the starting lineup. The tackles, I think are upgraded now. Tait is a better RT than LT, so that’s fixed and Williams, by all accounts, should be able to step right in and start. Here’s hoping he’s not a Stan Thomas redux.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
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