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St. Louis Cardinals - maybe I was wrong

I thought for sure the hot start of the Cardinals has been a mirage.   But now I'm not so sure.   All of a sudden their starting pitching looks pretty darn good with Wainwright, Looper and Piniero.   Mulder is due back pretty soon, Lohse is around and Carpenter and Clement are lurking in the future too.  

Who is this Shumaker guy?   And how is Ankiel still doing what he is doing?  

Should we start to be worried about the Cardinals?   Honestly I thought Tony LaRussa was off his rocker for agreeing to come back for two more years.  

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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sheesh

we just beat the Brewers 19-5. Can’t you just sit back and enjoy the moment? Pete’s sake.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on Apr 30, 2008 10:49 PM CDT reply actions  

19 - 5

Mulder didn’t do to well tonight. The Cubs on the other hand. . .

by Villeslgr on Apr 30, 2008 10:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Mulder

gave up 7 earned runs to minor leaguers, I wouldn’t be too scared of that

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 1, 2008 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

because one minor league rehab start

voids his entire major league work, right?

my owner buys me the expensive cat food, but i'll just eat this dvd shrinkwrap and that bug over there

by dr stabbingworth on May 1, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

No

but it does mean that Mulder is not currently as sharp as he has been in the past. It doesn’t mean he won’t get there again, but it does show that he is likely to need more time before (and if) he becomes the pitcher he used to be

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 1, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions  

I saw him last year

get pasted by the Cubs in Busch Stadium, no less. IMHO, he’s done forever.

"I tell you, Steve Blass, you pitch me inside, they never, never find that ball."
-Roberto Clemente

by cubbybear on May 1, 2008 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Jury's still out on the Cardinals

keep in mind that the Orioles, Marlins and A’s are all ‘contending’ at the moment too, so don’t get too worked up over the Cardinals just yet. Tony La Russa, love him or hate him, is a genius of a coach who has always gotten the best from his players.

by Petrie000 on Apr 30, 2008 10:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Dave Duncan

helps quite a bit too. Regardless of who makes up his staff, he has them pitching better than ever.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 1, 2008 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

There are always surprises in baseball.

The Cardinals may be one of those teams this year that do a lot better than you would expect out of their roster. But it’s not likely.
So far, they are scoring more runs than they are allowing to be scored against them. But they have had a very easy schedule so far this year.
I’ll take them seriously in a month if they’re still doing well and if Carpenter is throwing off a mound.

by DGU on Apr 30, 2008 11:15 PM CDT reply actions  

They have the best coaches in baseball.

Duncan’s gameplans. And just watch their bunt defense, not as good as it was with Rolen, but still incredible.

I don’t see how they can keep this up with what is essentially a bunch of mediocre players and Michael Jordan. I’d say they’re the best coached team in the bigs.

"If you play more than two chords, you're showing off."--Woody Guthrie

by buckmulligan on Apr 30, 2008 11:26 PM CDT reply actions  

Of all the things to admit you were wrong about...

...you take maybe one of the five times you were actually right.

Never change, Blue Mike. Never change.

by cwyers on Apr 30, 2008 11:30 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

LSA

n/t

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 1, 2008 3:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

We all know how ankiel is doing it

He was named in the mitchell report for using HGH.

"We Are Not Fair Weather But Foul Weather Fans, Brothers In Arms In Streets and The Stands." -Eddie Vedder, Someday We'll Go All The Way

by ryanbrixenivy on Apr 30, 2008 11:31 PM CDT reply actions  

I think he meant

how is he doing now that he is (assumably) off the drugs.

by TC Cubby on May 1, 2008 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nah...

I still don’t think their success will last.

The Time Is Now. [Chicago Cubs, '08]

by EJThunder on Apr 30, 2008 11:32 PM CDT reply actions  

With all due respect to the Cardinals

I don’t expect Todd Wellemeyer to keep pace. Bad teams can get off to good starts. The Marlins are another example. I really expect neither of these two teams to compete.
Bad Cubs teams have started well over the years, long-timers know that, and that’s been well documented on these pages recently, for those who might be younger.

In a weak AL Central, you can see how the Tigers have been able to turn things around, and are still a threat. (Of course, we just have to look at last year’s Cubs for another example.)

The Cards will slide back. However, they might not be the last-place team that many expected, as it would now seem the Reds/Bucs are going to slug it out to stay out of the cellar.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 1, 2008 12:00 AM CDT reply actions  

I wouldn't count the Marlins out.

I predicted last year that they would be a force to contend with. They are always dangerous.

by nickler on May 1, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

but right now they are 17-11, 12-6 at home, 6-4 over the past 10 games

and we play them this weekend.

Who cares what happens in August when they are competitve now?

Let’s take this season one game at a time, starting with the Brewers tomorrow and the Cards on Friday.

by JFCubFan on May 1, 2008 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Is this an old post from the 4th week of August 2007?

Man, I remember when people were saying the same crap back then. The Cards faded away. This is the same Cards team too. They didn’t add anyone special over the offseason. Glaus for Rolen is a parallel move. None of their ‘young guys’ are top prospects and are playing over their heads even in terms of their proper platoons (lefty-mashers are batting higher against lefties than they normally would).

LaRussa is a master of the matchup and always finds a way to get his teams chances of winning to the maximum amount. Sometimes it works for him and he and his team go on a hot streak, other times it goes back to normal. The Cards started the season 7-2 and finished April 5-2. In the middle they went 6-7 including a stint where they lost 4 of 6 to the Giants.

Should be a fun weekend!

by IllinoisCubs on May 1, 2008 12:53 AM CDT reply actions  

We

probably shouldn’t count out the Cardinals with the way they have played over the last 7 or 8 years. Adam Wainwright is a quality pitcher and a solid number 2 possibly number 1 starter. But Kyle Lohse will probably drop off(2.88 era last April), and pitch like a 4-5 starter. Joel Piniero and Looper are probably 4-5 starters at best, and I doubt Wellemeyer will keep pitching well. So pretty much they have a front line starter, and a bunch of bottom of the rotation starters. They could have Carpenter, Mulder and Clement come back at some point. But Carpenter is coming back from Tommy John Surgery, and odds are against him to pitch like he did in 06 this season.(possibly 09 though) Mark Mulder looked really bad when he came back last year, and I’m not sure if he will ever be the pitcher he once was(like Wade Miller), and Clement has pitched much since 2005. So odds are the Cardinals will get very little from these guys this year if anything.

Their offense probably isn’t going to keep doing what their doing either. Ludwick/Schumaker are playing over their heads right now IMO, and Rick Ankiel is pretty inconsistent. So on paper their starting pitching looks subpar, and thier line-up looks average at best. So they shouldn’t be a contending team this year, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the Cards get some career years from a few hitters and few starting pitchers and have a good team this year.

by cubsfan25 on May 1, 2008 2:34 AM CDT reply actions  

The reason why the Cards will suck come July

Wellemeyer, Lohse, Looper – three “starters” that will fall quickly back to earth..

2008 Cubs: Why Beat A Team in Regulation, when you can beat them in extras?

by Chanman25 on May 1, 2008 6:24 AM CDT reply actions  

Cardinals.....

Can we wait until Friday to see if they’re a threat?

Not only will they start to falter soon, but the upper man. won’t make any trades at the deadline.

by walsh2317 on May 1, 2008 6:50 AM CDT reply actions  

This is an important series for both teams.

For the Cardinals, to show they belong (I don’t think they do).

For the Cubs, to establish dominance.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 1, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Too long of a season

To wonder if either the Cubs or the Cardinals are as good as they appear in April. I’m enjoying good baseball being played most nights.

I think the Cardinal pitchers cannot sustain, but that’s also as big of a guess as anything.

by Woodstock on May 1, 2008 8:13 AM CDT reply actions  

It's a long season my friend...

sit back and enjoy what the Cubs are currently doing. Yes, the Cards are starting off hot, but I still believe it’s mostly due to LaRussa/Duncan making chicken salad out of chicken sh*t…

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on May 1, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Two things would have to happen . . .

. . . for the Cardinals to pull it out. In order for them to stick with us, the following two conditions must be met:

1) Their pitching continues to be excellent.

2) The Cubs offense falters.

The Cards have allowed 16 fewer runs than we have, but we’ve scored 36 more runs than they have. (In fact, they’ve given up the fewest runs in baseball, and we’ve scored the most.) If things continue as they are we should be fine.

If only one of the above conditions occurs, I still think we are fine. This is comforting, since I doubt our offense can sustain this level of awesomeness over the long term. But I also doubt that their pitching can continue to lead the league. If both teams regress to the mean, we will win since we don’t have as far to regress, and we are just flat-out a better baseball team.

My .02

by MikeIowa on May 1, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply actions  

It seems that every year people predict the Cardinals to not be a factor

and almost every year they’re wrong. I don’t think the Cardinals are going away. I remember back in ‘04 when I had this almost exact discussion with friends-for whatever reason, they almost ALWAYS seem to outperform their expectations. Look at how well they’re playing while missing two of their best starting pitchers. When Mulder and Carpenter come back, this team has the potential to be scary.
I’ve learned to NEVER underestimate a Tony LaRussa-led team. When the dust settles, it’s going to be St.Louis that gives the Cubs their main competition in the Central.

by bluekoolaide on May 1, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Don't see the Cards...

...holding up during the long grind.

With that said, there are no certainties in baseball, but one of the most reliable trends over the years, has been the ability of LaRussa/Duncan, to get the maximum out of what they have.

You really have to give them credit, because they have done it for a long time.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 1, 2008 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

Cardinal pitching is deceivingly strong

Adam Wainwright has quietly developed into one of the better starting pitchers in the NL. Braden Looper is OK. Joel Piniero appears yet another one of those revelations under the tutelage of Dave Duncan. Kyle Lohse is an innings eater. Mark Mulder and Matt Clement are due back soon. And Chris Carpenter is waiting in the wings. Bullpen? Jason Isringhausen remains high quality. Anthony Reyes, Brad Thompson and Ryan Franklin are all getting the job done. Todd Wellemeyer will eventually slot to the pen.

So I look at the Cubs pitching versus the Cardinals….and I’m not sure how we are superior in this department.

Any team with Albert Pujols in the lineup is to be greatly feared. And this Rick Ankiel thing can no longer be a myth because baseball tests for performance enhancing drugs and clearly he must now be playing clean.

So yeah, I think I have come around to the thinking that the Cardinals are for real and I shoudl respect them a lot more than I was.

by MDBNIU on May 1, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions  

Agreed about Duncan..

To me, Duncan is the biggest reason behind LaRussa’s success. Year after year they seem to take at least 1 pitcher from the scrap heap and make him serviceable.

That said, there seem to be way to many question marks for this club to be very much above .500 by August.

The caveat is that if any team has the horseshoe up it’s arse its the Cardinals. See 2006.

The journey is the reward!

by wicubfan on May 1, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Worried? No.

It’s still too early in the season, plus we’ve been playing too well, to worry about the Cards. Let’s wait till June at least, and see if they are still hanging around the top. Lets see how well their stamina is when they are playing day after day in 100 degree heat. If they are hanging around the top around the All-Star break, then you can start thinking they are the “real deal.” Till then…. no card worries.

by TheHawkRules on May 1, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Timely hitting

Thats what the Cardinals have been doing. I see just about every game they play and thats all they have. I can not see it continue all season. Many of their pitchers are pitching much better than usual this also will start to fall.

In the last month they played the Brewers 5 times and went 3-2 after the Brewers the best team they played was Cincy. Their may is not to bad but if you look at June it is BRUTAL. They play the play Philly, KC (always find ways to lose to them), Boston, Det., and NYM. This team will fall hard.

All their fans think they will sweep us this weekend so I really hope that the Cubs just win the series. I always match up our line ups position by position and there are 3 spots that are arguable and everything else the Cubs have a MUCH bigger advantage on. I can’t wait for this weekend so I can shut all these people up down here…

by dus22 on May 1, 2008 12:39 PM CDT reply actions  

Don't jump on the Cardinal bandwagon just yet...

LaRussa and Duncan do deserve a lot of credit. However, after the 5th spot in their line-up, Glaus, it’s a cake walk. They bat the pitcher 8th thinking it will put runners on base for Pujols, but their #9 hitter is Cesar Itzuris (batting barely .200). Molina is a constant double play candidate and barely hits over .230. Players like Miles, Kennedy, Ryan, and Ludwick are not going to give the production needed to sustain an offense over the course of the season. Their only hope is that their pitching staff holds opponents to under 3 runs/game otherwise, they are screwed. Once the scouting resports come out on Lohse and Piniero and Wellemeyer, all of a sudden they become very beatable. And Clement isn’t coming back until June at the earliest and he is a huge Q mark to begin with. They need a solid left-handed starter in their rotation and they have all of their chips placed on Mulder. I wouldn’t make that bet, even with Duncan. Mulder had Duncan when he came back last summer and look what happened. Duncan can’t heal injuries. Duncan can make healthy pitchers great, sure, but if the pitchers aren’t 100% they are going to cave. Their bullpen isn’t as great as everybody thinks either. Isringhausen isn’t lights out. McLellan is a rookie. Franklin has been decent for them, but also isn’t untouchable. The wheels will come off the bus by the All-Star break unless they make some big time trades. Mark my words.

I'm kind of a big deal

by chi-townbleacherbum on May 1, 2008 1:11 PM CDT reply actions  

not worthy......

of discussing until after the all star break since we are only 28 games into the season!

by goatstew on May 1, 2008 10:10 PM CDT reply actions  

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