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Lessons Learned

And just what did we learn today from today's 6-4 Cub win over the Diamondbacks, their second come-from-behind win in a row, completing a sweep over a team that came into Chicago with the best record in baseball?

First, mea culpa to everyone I was talking to in the game thread saying "CALL THIS GAME NOW!" I figured there was no way they'd play this afternoon, given the horrendous weather all morning -- pouring rain, strong winds, feeling like it was 2003 again; so I stayed home during the morning hours (had lunch, did the Sunday Tribune crossword, kept track of weather radars) instead of going to claim my bleacher seat. Watching the webcams (thanks, ballhawk!) we saw that the seats were claimed by about 12:30, so when I arrived Mike, Phil & I sat with, appropriately, I thought, on Mother's Day, some longtime bleacher season ticket holders who are moms, Judy & Colleen, in their seats in right-center field next to the concession stand. Judy's daughter is in her 20's and married, but Colleen had her three young kids in tow. They spent most of their time slopping hot dogs, cokes and cotton candy all over the place, calling each other "idiot", and racing in and out so many times it made my head spin. (The oldest, to her credit, at least attempted to keep score.) Mike said it was "almost as good entertaiment as what was on the field, and free!"

Well, at least before the Cubs mounted their two comebacks, it might have been the best entertainment of the day (No, I'm not including the idiot who ran onto the field, jumping out of the bleachers -- the last guy who tried that broke both his ankles -- who was tackled by security and the off-duty cops who patrol for those sorts of things). But the Cubs, who had given the lead to Arizona in the first inning after two were out and no one on base (I hate those!), took it back with some small ball in the second -- a walk, a single, a sacrifice by Sean Gallagher, and a wild pitch.

The long-ball gave them the lead in the third, in the form of Derrek Lee's opposite-field HR, his tenth.

The lead was coughed up in the fifth, with yet another lesson learned: here was a textbook example of how certain statistics mean absolutely nothing, in this case pitcher ERA's. Sean Gallagher, who I thought threw pretty well before running out of gas in the 5th, gave up hits to three of the first four batters he faced in that inning (after allowing only two hits and two walks through four), and then intentionally walked Chris Young to load the bases while Chad Fox finished his warmup tosses.

Fox shouldn't have bothered. He walked the first two hitters he faced, Conor Jackson and Justin Upton, forcing in two runs. After that Fox settled down and retired the next two hitters, and threw a scoreless sixth, even while issuing another walk.

Thus Fox's ERA goes down, and Gallagher's goes up through no fault of his own. Fox, I think, really doesn't belong on this roster. He's a feel-good story, but that's about it. And I was beginning to be of the mind that Lou didn't know what he was doing, NOT using Fox in a five-run blowout in the 9th inning yesterday, then using him in a key situation today.

Which leads to another lesson learned, and this one was taught both to me and D'backs manager Bob Melvin. After Reed Johnson tied the game with his first Cub HR (hit into the teeth of a 25-MPH wind blowing in from LF), Lou brought in Carlos Marmol yet again (I thought he could have stuck with Michael Wuertz in the 8th; Wuertz threw exactly four pitches in dispatching the D'backs in the 7th) -- I swear, Marmol's arm is going to fall off if Lou keeps this up -- Marmol took care of Arizona easily, and the Cubs came up in the last of the 8th down by two runs.

After Aramis Ramirez singled... well, something happened, and I'm not sure what. Did someone miss a sign? Or did someone not give a sign? Aramis took off for second base and surprised everyone in the ballpark, most of all Arizona catcher Miguel Montero, who nearly flung the ball into the center field ivy; Ramirez was safe for only his 12th career SB, his first since 2006 (and only his fourth since becoming a Cub nearly five years ago).

That's when the fun began. Kosuke Fukudome laid down a perfect bunt that hugged the wet grass down the 3B line (hey! a use for rainy days after all!), which put Ramirez on third with nobody out. After Geovany Soto's "swinging bunt" advanced Dome to second, Lou schooled all of us. Daryle Ward had been on deck to pinch-hit for Marmol, the seemingly "obvious" PH move, but instead, Lou sent up Alfonso Soriano (who got a huge ovation; I suppose, for yesterday's 4-for-5).

Bob Melvin ordered Soriano intentionally walked to load the bases. Then, Ward batted for Felix Pie. Melvin either forgot to have a lefthander up or doesn't trust his bullpen lefties, because Ward slammed Tony Pena's second pitch in the gap right in front of my Sunday perch, winning the game. Sometimes Lou appears to be not-so-slick because, well, some of his postgame comments may not seem as articulate or funny or pithy as some other managers. But oh, he's smart, thinking two steps ahead of the other guy. Bob Melvin and the rest of us: lesson learned.

Kerry Wood hit another batter (didn't he do this a lot as a starter, too?), but got out of the inning with a slick DP turned by Ryan Theriot, Mike Fontenot and Derrek Lee.

Learned my lessons today: never question Chicago weather, because there was no typhoon today; after it stopped raining it wasn't too cold, though quite windy. And never question Lou Piniella. He's the right guy for this job.

Finally, maybe a lesson learned for some of you who questioned me when I picked the Diamondbacks to finish fourth in the NL West. Yes, they're a good team with good young talent. But they sure didn't impress me this weekend. Savor this sweep; the Cubs just gave notice that they will need to be reckoned with as this season continues what is beginning as a fascinating one.

Click here for my scorecard from today's game

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first

reply. :P

I’m thinking Fox may be who is sent down when Marshall comes back up.

No way Marmol pitches tomorrow; maybe Lou thinks that he won’t be needed for the Padre’s series?

It was a great game. And did anyone else notice that we had the three scrappiest guys on the team batting in a row—Fonty, Riot and Reed…

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 11, 2008 8:31 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Fox

I think some Cubs fans are being a little hard on the guy. Yes he might be older, and have a history of injury problems. But when the guy has been healthy he has been a pretty good pitcher. Sure it only has been 4 seasons from 1997-2005 due to injuries. But his stuff is still pretty good, and he was throwning around 94 miles per hour today. He’s really hasn’t pitched that bad so far, and actually better then I expected.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 9:02 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The point is, the Cubs have other options.

Where’s Jose Ascanio?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 12, 2008 4:15 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I don't think

the Cubs feel he’s ready to be a quality ML reliever yet. As long as Fox keeps pitching the way he has with his stuff as good as it has been, I’m fine with him on the team. Obviously the Cubs feel Fox is more ML ready then any of our other relievers. I could understand some upset with him on the team if he was throwing 88 and his pitches weren’t good. But the guy has thrown well and with good velocity.

by cubsfan25 on May 12, 2008 4:45 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Sigh

If figures that my work schedule for this weekend has me miss a truly awesome a sweep and a terrific job done by our pitching. The Best Buy gods are frowning upon me.

.... Edit #6: We're gonna go 156 and 6 this year, I can feel it!!!

by Beaushek on May 11, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Not that it's a big deal, but IIRC...

that last DP was the Cajun Connection (Riot/Fonty). Hell of a game though, and I couldn’t agree more about Fox – this feel good story has had it’s time.

It's gotta be the shoes, folks, it's gotta be the shoes...

by Schwa on May 11, 2008 8:31 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

You are, of course, right.

I forgot DeRo had been double-switched out. Nice DP, though.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 11, 2008 8:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You're being a bit hard on Fox,

don’t you think? He had a New York minute to get ready in the pen, and once got a few extra pitches on the mound to settle down, he got out off the inning, and pitched a clean sixth. He’s not a terrible 12th man on the staff, especially until Hart can throw strikes again—or Lieber can be restored to long man duty.

by Damen Jackson on May 11, 2008 8:32 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Then maybe Lou didn't school us well enough.

If your starter is in trouble, get the guy ready earlier!

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 11, 2008 8:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Gallagher

lost steam REALLY fast.

But Fox should be able to throw strikes. All he had to do was throw strikes. Not that I mind coming from behind, but I’d rather not have to do it in the first place.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 11, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I agree

Gallagher was pretty good the first 4 innings. Then he lost it pretty fast. Before we knew it was double, bunt, hard hit single, and then another double. It’s not like he had long AB’s with these guys either.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 8:44 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Those 1st few at-bats...

went by really quickly. Fox is older, has a history of injury, and was trying to get loose in some fairly cool weather. This was probably not the guy you wanted to go to in that situation, but what you gonna do?

by Damen Jackson on May 11, 2008 8:45 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

pitch Wuertz?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 11, 2008 8:50 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It was really early in the game...

somebody had to get you into the later innings, and like it or not, Fox is your long man right now.

by Damen Jackson on May 11, 2008 8:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Lieber could have done it.

They knew his start (tomorrow, right?) was going to change because Z was already benched and going to pitch tomorrow.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 11, 2008 9:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Lieber start

was scheduled for Tuesday, and still might start. But most likely if he’s going to start he will start Friday. But also remember Lieber is a starting pitcher, and takes even longer to warm up then most relievers. Since the fact that Fox struggled probably because he didn’t have enough time to warm up. There’s no way we could have went to Lieber that fast. Thats why in that game against the Cardinals when we pulled Hill out of the first inning, we went with Wuertz before Lieber.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 9:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I thought

he should have went with Wuertz at the time, but for all we know the outcome could have been the same. On another board Lou was hitting hammered when he put Fox in the game and he gave up the lead. Many fans were saying Lou is as bad as Dusty and should be fired right now. I was ready to pull my hair out with the overreact by Cubs fans in some of these game threads. I’m glad Lou made a smart move in the 8th to shut many of these fans up.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 8:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I agree

didn’t Lou just start warming up Fox right after Byrnes hit the double? So he had pretty much had just the AB to Jackson when they walked him on four pitches to warm up. All I know is Fox didn’t have much time to warm up and that could have been a factor in with some of his control issues to the first two batters.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 8:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

too bad that fan didn't jump out of the bleachers at this point instead of when he did

the extra delay might have been the perfect tonic for Fox’s initial wildness.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 11, 2008 10:13 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

True that...

which reminds me….which one of you was it??





by Damen Jackson on May 11, 2008 11:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Didn't this make three

come back wins in a row?

by inukjim on May 11, 2008 8:32 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Neal Cotts

I think I’m going to start the “Free Neal Cotts” campaign. I have no idea why Fox is pitching in the majors and Cotts isn’t. Actually, I do know why. I just don’t agree with the reasoning.

And Al, if you think the Diamondbacks are unimpressive, wait until you get to see the Padres tomorrow. Or the Rockies or Giants. (Heck, everyone’s predictions of 100 losses for the Jints isn’t likely to come true because of their weak competition.) Even the Dodgers aren’t very impressive. The D-Backs are a good team in a terrible division. They fought us hard all weekend and remember, we didn’t face Brandon Webb or Micah Owings (or even Randy Johnson, although he’s a #3-#4 pitcher at this point.) They’ll take the division fairly easily.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on May 11, 2008 8:33 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Oh, I agree with you.

There’s no reason the Cubs shouldn’t win at least 3 of 4 from SD, and maybe sweep.

This could be a REALLY good homestand.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 11, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Assuming

The Cubs have kicked that pesky playing-down-to and playing-up-to the level of competition.

by AceCubbie on May 11, 2008 8:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

We lucked out by not seeing Owings or Webb

but we don’t make the schedule. I’ll take the gift

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on May 11, 2008 9:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I rather

face Owings then Haren. Owings isn’t that great of a pitcher and more of a 3-4 starter who gets talked up alot because of the way he hits. Actually I think the D-backs lucked out they didn’t have to face Zambrano.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 9:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Owings obviously is swinging the hot stick,

but he’s not pitching all too well. I’m supposed to be studying for a Finance exam so I’m not going to go dig up stats, but I don’t think facing Owings is that big of a deal, certainly not like seeing Webb/Haren.

It's gotta be the shoes, folks, it's gotta be the shoes...

by Schwa on May 11, 2008 9:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Owings

has a 4.33 era but is 4-1 in 7 starts

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 9:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Because when Owings pitches

the D-Backs play with the DH. Big advantage.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on May 12, 2008 12:58 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Not that this matters....

...but didn’t Fontenot help with the DP in the 9th instead of Derosa?

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on May 11, 2008 8:34 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

he did

My 08 Cubs record 4-0
My 08 W.Sox record 0-2 (I havent seen a sox win in 3 years)
Updated April 26th

by Rudey on May 11, 2008 8:35 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'll fix the post.

Thanks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 11, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Got to watch the first game of the series for me!

And it was great to see the cubbies do what those “good teams” do we’ve heard about comeback from being down time and time again.

warm feeling

Go Cubbies!

My 08 Cubs record 4-0
My 08 W.Sox record 0-2 (I havent seen a sox win in 3 years)
Updated April 26th

by Rudey on May 11, 2008 8:36 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Al did the guy make it from the bleachers onto the field and for how long before he was massacred

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 11, 2008 8:37 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Yes, he did.

He was tackled right away.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 11, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

jeez.....

thats a big jump.. Like what 11 feet… WOnder how drunk he was

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 11, 2008 8:41 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I remember discussing this debauchery...

...last year. In the second game thread, I posted a link to the punishment for the last guy that did it. Convicted of a FELONY of trespassing. Ouch.

Dan

Evey Hammond: Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici. V: By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

by dtpollitt on May 11, 2008 8:52 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The felony wasn't for trespassing...

... it was for confronting Bob Howry. I suspect this guy may get by with a misdemeanor.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 12, 2008 4:16 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Agree about Lou all the way...

He may not sound like a Northwestern grad on an interview, but his baseball IQ his high indeed. He misses nothing on the field.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 11, 2008 8:39 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

he played his cards perfectly...

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 11, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

AU contraire -

he DOES sound like a NU grad. Exactly like one.

- lostinthevines, Illini class of '94

"I got mad hits like I was Rod Carew!"

by lostinthevines on May 11, 2008 9:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

ha.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on May 12, 2008 12:01 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Marmol

Did pitch the last three days, but he only throw a total of 43 pitches this weekend, and only 43 pitches since last Saturday with the Cardinals. I think Piniella used him this weekend so much because he didn’t have high pitch counts or high stress innings.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 8:41 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

he will probably be unavialable tomorrow but ready on tueday

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 11, 2008 8:42 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

A-Ram's Steal???

Does anyone happen to have a link to a video of this? I missed the game but would love to see a video of such an historic moment.

by waltetod on May 11, 2008 8:44 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

almost had a heart attack

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 11, 2008 8:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

It wasn't

that impressive, it looked like a messed up hit and run play and the Diamondbacks catcher just made a awful throw. I almost wonder if Soto or Ward could have been safe with the throw their catcher made.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 8:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Agreed.

Not mention that the next baserunner Montero throws out stealing will the first baserunner he has thrown out stealing. Nevertheless, Rammy didn’t let up and got it done.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 11, 2008 8:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Forget Soto or Ward...

Larry Rothschild could have beat that throw (Sweet Lou would have been out by a hair)

by aldimond on May 11, 2008 11:52 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Bonus Win!

Is it just me, or did today’s win feel like a Bonus Win!? Lou pulls Z and Soriano, Cubs come back to steal one. During the late innings I remember thinking, ‘oh well, at least we took 2 of 3 from them’. And then we come back with some great moves by Lou.

Now we get Z tomorrow on an extra days rest.

Maybe they should let him sport the pink shoes tomorrow night!

by BartlettBob on May 11, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

No kidding.

Reed Johnson hits a HR, Rammy steals a base, and Theriot makes two Web Gem-esque plays, all on the heels of Soriano getting GW hits two days in a row. Hopefully, this string of odd/good luck forecasts a nice long hot stretch coming for the Cubs.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 11, 2008 8:52 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Cubs website says Marquis is starting tomorrow. Any idea when Zambrano is getting put back in?

by Schizo on May 11, 2008 8:48 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Hopefully

they just didn’t update it yet. Len Kasper said during the game a few times that Zambrano is suppose to start tomorrow.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 8:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

At 4:15 am...

... it’s updated, Cubs website says Z is starting against Randy Wolf.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 12, 2008 4:17 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Great win!!! We swept the friggin D-Backs (wish we did that last October)

But… gotta agree with Al… Marmol’s arm is gonna fall off.

Didn’t we use him yesterday… to finish off a 7-2 ballgame? WTF?

Cubs 2008 (18-14)
Home (11-6) | Road (7-8) | 1-Run Games (4-3) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 5, 2008

by SackMan on May 11, 2008 8:49 PM CDT reply reply   0 recs

Marmol didn't have much work this week

He didn’t pitch for five days. I suspect he’ll sit tomorrow and perhaps Tuesday as well.

by Not Bruce Froemming on May 11, 2008 8:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

He's still pitched 24 innings already...

That’s a tough pace. We need to have him at around 35 by the All-star break… to keep him around 70-75 innings for the year.

Cubs 2008 (18-14)
Home (11-6) | Road (7-8) | 1-Run Games (4-3) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 5, 2008

by SackMan on May 11, 2008 8:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think

it’s unlikely he will be at 35 by the Allstar break. Being around 40 innings pitched in the next month and half is more realistic. I’m pretty sure Marmol will throw around 75-80 something innings this year. Which is still 30 innings(110 innings) less then last year when you factor in he throw 69 innings in the majors and 41 innings in the minors. But there’s no doubt Marmol will be one of the leaguers in innings pitched out of the pen this year. But if any team that had a weapon like Marmol would pitch him probably that much anyways. I think once Howry gets fully to his second half form, then we will start cutting down on Marmols innings some.

by cubsfan25 on May 11, 2008 9:09 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

count the pitches

not the innings.

It’s a lot, but I don’t think it’s unsustainable. Besides, Howry and Wuertz are getting visibly better; Marmol should have some more rest soon.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 11, 2008 9:11 PM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

yeah...

look at the fact that a lot of those 24 innings had

------ TheRiot Squad ------

by RightFieldSucks on May 12, 2008 3:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Exactly!

Wuertz threw FOUR pitches in the seventh. Why not leave him in for the 8th?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 12, 2008 4:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Right of course

Al, of course your right about Wuertz. But Carlos Marmol is what, 25? I know we are all gun shy about pitchers but from what I can see the guy is a horse like Zambrano. Seems too that Carlos has also had a lot of “very efficient” innings. I’m just saying that he is a young strong guy and can handle the work.

BTW, during the rain delay WGN showed a 1965 game where a Red’s pitcher had already thrown over 170 pitches in 10 innings. Maybe we worry too much.

I want my Macias!

by wombat on May 12, 2008 8:42 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Actually, he started the inning at 177. I didn't count

but he had to be close to 190 when he finished and they said his fastball had a lot of pop. Those guys were horses back then.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 12, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs