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OT: Yu Darvish

Heres  great article Im sure some of you may have seen by now on espn.com, called "Dice K 2.0" detailing Half Iranian-Half Japanese pitching phenom, Yu Darvish.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=darvish

It goes on to speculate that his posting fee, if indeed he is posted before he reaches free agency, could exceed 75 million dollars, surpassing the 50 the Red Sox payed for Dice-k. 

If I remember correctly, the Cubs finished second or third in that bidding war, though I dont know if the other bids were made public, but I remember hearing on espn the cubs posted about 30 million or so for Dice K, but obviously fell short...i could be wrong in the figure though.

So what do you think, would the Cubs pony up that cash, perhaps Cuban would...either way he seems like an intriguing player on and off the field.

There was also this tidbit, that I originally missed.

If Darvish can make the Great Satan's national pastime popular in Iran, he should take on an even greater task, like signing with the Cubs and seeing whether he can help them win a World Series. While American fans wait to see whether Darvish leaves Japan early (or at all), they can watch him pitch in this summer's Olympics or next spring's World Baseball Classic.

Then his father chimed in:

And is there any team for which Farsad would like Yu to pitch? "I love the New York and Boston area. If he ever makes it there, I don't know, it's up to him, anywhere in the States is good, but I personally love New England."

Theo Epstein, Brian Cashman: Consider that your wakeup call.

Maybe the love and adulation thats been rained (or is it reigned) upon Kosuke could influence him to come to the Cubs, he seems like the type of guy who could demand which team he is posted to, like he has the charisma/ego to pull an Eli Manning/John Elway type of deal.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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It would be great...

if the Cubs made a bid on this guy. I just read the article and I think he would be spectacular. I know he’s only 21 and still developing, but hey it’s worth a shot.

You ARE freaking out MAN!

by crw89 on May 13, 2008 12:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Which Cabrera?

Orlando? He’s old.

Miguel? He’s fat.

I’ll take Darvish.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 14, 2008 3:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you can get insurance

against the possibility of his arm falling off, then damn right!

Soriano should hit 5th. Period.

by Canadian Cubs Fan on May 13, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It is kind of odd isnt it

They are essentially selling humans; kind of like baseball prostitution.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

Right, because this is not at all the exact same thing as trading players between big league teams. The only difference here is that the bidding process is comparatively open.

(And if you’re going to make a terrible comparison, wouldn’t it be slavery and not prostitution?)

by Wreckard on May 13, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh

There there. Ill stick by my comparison. Its is nothing like trading between teams. Hmmmm lets say the Cubs want Johan from the Mets and Johans contract is up-the Cubs in order to begin negotiating need to pay the Mets 75 million then pay John 120-——call it slavery if you like but Ill call it prostitution.

Terrible comparison? Hardly

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it's the same thing

It’s a trading process, to the highest bidder. In this case they aren’t trading contracts for contracts, they’re trading money for contracts (by the way, that happens in the major leagues sometimes too!)

I say it’s comparatively transparent in that, during the posting process the highest bid will always win. In the trading process that’s not as clear – unless the trade is simply for cash considerations the highest bid is a matter of perspective and circumstance.

Calling it prostitution is pretty silly for a number of reasons. For starters it’s simply the wrong word (prostitution = selling yourself, slavery = selling others). Even if you had used the right word, it still would have been the wrong word – the owner of the team makes it clear he would do this early if the player requested it:

“We will admit a transfer, if it is allowed by the system,” he said. “We won’t chain our players. Actually, we want to train players like the majors are looking for and [see them] perform well over there. That’s kind of our goal.”

Oh my god he sounds just like a pimp! I bet he has a cane and a gold tooth and a cape as well.

by Wreckard on May 13, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont disagree with your assessment nor

will I retract mine. The meaning and symbolism behind what I said is my point and I stand behind it. My apologies for using the inproper analogy

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not arguing with you

but I will say that one of the biggest complaint of baseball players of the 19th century was being sold to another team, which they repeatedly compared to slavery.

On the other hand, just working for a wage was compared to slavery in the 1860s.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on May 13, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But there's a huge difference here

In this case the player must request to be posted for the process to happen at all. On top of that, Davrish could simply refuse to sign with the winning team if he doesn’t want to come to play for them or doesn’t like the terms. 19th century baseball players were essentially owned by their team and had no say in where they went.

This is a process that is driven by, and greatly benefits, the player involved. That doesn’t sound much like human trafficking / exploitation to me.

by Wreckard on May 13, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

again, I’m not arguing, just providing a historical anecdote.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on May 15, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was about to say

it’s more like pimping

by tal1286 on May 13, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So youre also saying

That trading players between big league teams isnt a “comparatively open” process? (If you are going to make a terrible comparison you should just ignore the post)

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

IT AINT EASY

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 14, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and we dont have to trade any players for him???

I think this might be a good move if he has the current ability and not just potential.
this would continue to open up the huge Japanese Market to more Cubs merchandise…im sure the salary would pay for itself.

by ragamuffindaniel on May 13, 2008 12:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I doubt he's going to be posted.

He’s among the most popular players in NPB. They’ve lost so many good players, the $ they get for the posting fee wouldn’t be worth it for the fan support they’d lose.

He’ll probably come to the USA as a free agent, but that takes several more years.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 13, 2008 12:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

He'll be posted

just not anytime soon. Darvish has got, what, six years before free agency? Look for him in four or five seasons.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on May 13, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly so.

The financial landscape may look very different in four or five years. If he has any choice in being posted, he may not be, because he can make a lot of money by waiting.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 14, 2008 3:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well they better do it now...

If they want to get something for him before he leaves, if he does, though the ambiguity of his/teams stance makes me believe he will, like it said theyre just going neutral to build up the intrigue, theyd better sell him now..

Besides if they want 100 million dollars for him, do it sooner rather than later, b/c the dollar certainly isnt getting any stonger.

Well it seems as though the NPB is akin to the MLS, where our best players leave for Europe, but if you like soccer, then the MLS is the best you can see live in person, so I would suspect that Japanese baseball will survive b/c they love the sport and the NPB is the best game in town, so to speak.

either way, Id be stoked if the Cubs got him of course, its not my 100 million, my 100 million is in various Swiss bank accounts.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 13, 2008 1:09 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

$75 million

for a 21 year old?

Pete’s sake. Sometimes I really dislike professional sports.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 13, 2008 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Some thoughts...

I could see his posting fee going over $100mil easily. Simply because the conventional thought on Daisuke was it would be in the $20-$30mil range and just to make sure, Boston jumped waaay up there to $50mil. If the thinking is $75 for Yu, then I could see some team thinking someone is going to bid $100mil and they’ll submit one for $105 or so.

That said, I would love the Cubs to be able to get involved seriously for him. In the video he says his goal is to finish a season with a 0.00 ERA. That’s a very impressive goal and not a bad quality to have. I’m not sure who the owner of the team would be and if they’d be willing to make that kind of investment a few years into their new ownership but what a splash to make with the fans.

I doubt he gets posted this off-season or next simply because he is only 21 and has 5 more years under Nippon Ham control. At worst, he plays 4 years for them and is posted the immediate year before free agency and at best I would guess 2 years before to maximize the posting return. Figure at that point you would have a 24 year old who after the posting fee you could sign to a contract through his prime. Somewhere between 4 and 6 years.

by CubFan81 on May 13, 2008 1:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

See I think the opposite

If theyre posting him as a health 21 year old vs even a health 25 or 26 year old, thats an extra 4-5 years of service an MLB team could potentially get for him, which would in turn drive up the price allowing his team to make more off the posting cost.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 13, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my thought as well

Then again the COULD take the risk and wait until he is 25 or 26 and get 150 million. Risk and Reward….Im sure people get paid lots of money to make those decisions. Then again it is cheating their fans IMO.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think we need

to leave this type of thing alone. let the yankees,mets red sox make foolish bets like this. he may be a johan type pitcher or he may be a nomo. I personally think posting fee business is ignorant.

Go Cubbies Go!!!!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 13, 2008 1:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Its slavery

right Wreckard?

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW, Steve Stone's take on the Cubs and Dice-K

Stone said that upon hearing speculation that teams were bidding in the 40-50 million range (remember, it was a secret bid), the Cubs submitted a bid in the 20-30 million dollar range. Doesn’t inspire much confidence in their attempt to get Daisuke. However, a new owner might be interested in making a splash.

Why not just sign Sabathia instead for a lot less?

my owner buys me the expensive cat food, but i'll just eat this dvd shrinkwrap and that bug over there

by dr stabbingworth on May 13, 2008 2:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Because hes older

fatter and has thrown way, way, way more pitches…and theres always the allure of capturing overseas markets-which they could easily do with Kosuke, Darvish and that Korean SS someone mentioned yesterday, thatd give the Cubs a stranglehold on the Asian fanbase, well not a stranglehold, but b/t them theyd have three extremely talented and popular asian players.

I can see cubsluver22’s point though, that this could get outrageous and he might not live up to it and a lot of prices being thrown about are being driven by pure speculation…but his numbers and his supposed repitore seem to bode well.

I for one cant wait for the World Baseball Classic, I loved the first one, and just look at how many japanese players from that team came here and have succeed so far (fukudome, iwamura, etc) If he does well in that tourny, like Dice-K, I cannot even imagine how high the price might get.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 13, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this guy will be something special...

If Cuban is the owner of the Cubs I think that is our only shot.

by Rezze21 on May 13, 2008 2:50 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rezze

You going to come by my house tonight or tomorrow for those 4 tickets? $144

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Our only shot at what?

Getting the Cubs on Dancing With The Stars?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 13, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree

in case no one has noticed, dice-k is 6-0 with a 2.45 era and 40 k’s…those are CY YOUNG GOOD numbers in his second year! this kid already has WAY better stats than dice-k did in japan in even his best years – remember how big a phenom wood and prior were? yu darvish is going to be that good, except injury concerns will be less b/c they are conditioned to pitch more per start out there.

if the cubs ever got darvish (which i doubt they will), having him paired with Z could certainly become a randy johnson/curt schilling type combo by the time darvish is 25 – which is what i think we are missing to make a WS run. mark this down – if, IF he comes to MLB, he will absolutely be a perrenial cy young candidate and a humongous international superstar SENSATION! but the yanks will prop get him :(

"I'll play any day. I don't care if I'm 0-for-30, playing baseball is my PASSION. I'll go out and play." - Geo Soto

by CubbyBlues on May 13, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dont you think

the Cubs would have a hard time blowing 150 million or so on a guy that, just like Gallardo, could blow out his knee running to first?

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 13, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see the t shirts now....

I like Yu

or

Whirling Darvish

or

Fuku? Fuk Yu!

/patent pending

Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08

by Fuk-U-Meter on May 13, 2008 5:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I like that last one..ha

n/t

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 13, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

racist!

game over! - ARAM FOR MVP on May 5, 2008 7:32 PM EDT (down 3-0 to the Reds in the 1ST INNING)

by joeschmitt on May 14, 2008 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, actually, it is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 14, 2008 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

racist shirts

really? What’s racist about them? Just a play on his name…not making fun of the way he may speak

Fukudometer: Created 3/31/08 Wrigley Debut 4/5/08 WGN and Japan TV Debut 4/6/08 Sun Times Debut: 4/20/08

by Fuk-U-Meter on May 14, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, maybe not racist.

But the last one on your list… is just stupid.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 14, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matsuzaka and Darvish

Matsuzaka had kept loudly saying he want to go to MLB since he was a rookie in NPB, even before he became a pro, and asking Lions managements for posting everttime he renewed his contract. Then finally Lions gave him up posted in return of big money before he got FA rights.
Darvish is repeatingly saying he has no interest for MLB and no intention to go to US, and even though Fighters asked him not to say anything, there are some interviews before ESPN and US media start talking about him evidently showing his mindset.
Anyhow nobody knows how he think about his future in near future and Fighters can stay being financially healthy, but my instinct tells me that the posting would not happening on this guy.

I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.

by dragonsfanatic on May 14, 2008 5:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for this...

... I thought I read somewhere that Darvish DOES eventually want to go to the US, but doesn’t want to go through the posting process.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 14, 2008 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His passion

Matsuzaka is somewhat easy-to-understand personality and speaks up straight ahead what he thinks. But Darvish is a bit shy and dyspeptic, don’t talk to media vocally, but his passion inside is red-hot.
The most impressive documentary program for him was Jonetsu Tairiku (means “The continent of Passion”) of last August, which described his personality very well in depth for a change, regarding his passion for nationality, family and baseball. He again said he don’t have any interest nor adortion for MLB, and that was sounded from bottom of his heart. I got impression he will be serve his team first at least he’s got FA rights.

BTW he could not win today but strong 8 innings with 1 run allowed. He is now 5-1 with 1.43 ERA.

I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.

by dragonsfanatic on May 14, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Update of sorts

Jim Caple, the author of the piece, did a chat on espn.com today, and he was asked if and when he thought Yu would request a posting. He responded, that while everyone has their guesses, his guess would be the winter of 2009- so he could be in the majors by next season.

Caple sighted Darvish’s need for a bigger challenge and also his wife as influencing factors. I mustve missed something on the latter, is she like the japanese Posh Spice? I guess that makes you David Beckham.

So it could be an interesting winter for pitchers b/t him and sabathia. Caple speculated that the big market teams, NYs , LAs, CHIs, Boston and Seattle would be the most likely to pony up the dough.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 14, 2008 11:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Awesome!

I got a question through to him too! Im on fire lately, thats 2 in the past month.

Bren (NY): Does Mark Cuban strike you as the type of owner who would throw 100 mil around to talk to Yu?

Jim Caple: (12:51 PM ET ) Cuban strikes me as the type of owner who would throw around 100 million to sign a good player. I dont know why the major leagues are so afraid of Cuban. It's not like he's the only owner who spends money. I think they spent it pretty well without him.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 14, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

Well the copy and paste wouldnt work for some reason, but he said yes he seems like the type who would, and he doesnt understand why MLB owners are afraid of him because its not like owners werent spending money before he came around anyway.

sorry about that….i really did get a question through though…ha

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 14, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that's Caple's opinion.

There are other owners who might throw around that kind of $ for Darvish; the Red Sox and Yankees and Mets come to mind.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 14, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not likely happen

What’s the reason behind his guess?

I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.

by dragonsfanatic on May 14, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Next Year

Caple seemed to think that he would request a posting following this season and the bidding war would ensue this winter, primarily b/c he seems to think Darvish relishes the challenge of playing in America.

so all this excitement, on my part anyway, lies in the slim hope that the Cubs would make a hard run at him…but as a fan in general, he seems like hed be fun to watch.

In the chat someone asked him to compare him to current or recent pitchers: He said that he and others have compared Darvish, once he fills out, to Jim Palmer and Tom Seaver, both a little before my time, so I wouldnt know exactly what hes talking about, but theyre both HOFers right?

He seemed to think hed be better than Dice K b/c of his size and his pitching angles, which is the point of comparison b/t Darvish and Randy Johnson, according to some.

If you think about it, Caples article couldve just bumped up the price by a few million.

Okay, just so I understand it... in your wildest fantasy, you are in hell. And you are co-running a bed and breakfast with the devil.

by bren on May 14, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My question is

what’s the reason why Caple can say Darvish seems to request posting next year – I could not find it after reading his article, and looks like Caple just want to see that’s happening with no reason.
Yes, Darvish is great pitcher and I think he will be succussful just in case he plays in US, but that’s the different thing that he is really thinking about playing in US, expecially for next year. I think Caple just want to develop such a mood by this article.
My reasons that I don’t think it’s not likely to happen is above.

I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.

by dragonsfanatic on May 14, 2008 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

typo

My reasons that I don’t think it’s likely to happen is above.

I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.

by dragonsfanatic on May 14, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yu darvish is a great player

did anyone happen to see that film on ESPN2 about Bobby Valentine and Japanese baseball? It was very interesting and showed Yu Darvish pitch a great game

by columbusOHcubsfan on May 14, 2008 12:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

for anyone who knows

about MLS soccer, i think this could be a beckham like signing. pouring money into the guy and having become a massive media and sports star. Did anyone notice he threw 124 pitches? thats awesome

"This ball's got a chaaaaaance.....(YES!!! YESSS!!!!).....GONE!!! CUBS WIN, CUBS WIN!"

by FutureGroundscrewMember on May 14, 2008 2:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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