Steroids: can of worms may finally open

by Luis on May 18, 2008 10:37 AM CDT

The government has 103 positive tests (and the corresponding names associated with the samples) from the anonymous testing done in 2003. These are 103 major leaguers, who probably used many different suppliers and different types of steroids. If the final legal ruling is that they can use this info to subponea each of them you may see a can of worms open. Different suppliers named, then they are questioned and more connections may be made. Not to mention that these are 103 positive tests from major leaguers who can't come up with the same lame excuses we've heard before (especially since the government will know for what substance they tested positive and I'm sure many of those aren't in your everyday food and drink).

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Here's my concern:

What will this prove? Surely nothing we don’t already know, or at least suspect. I think after the hearings with Palmiero, McGwire and Sammy, it was obvious what had gone on…..dragging players in front of Congress for admission and denial sessions is pointless; drag the owners in there, because they had to know what was going on and they turned a blind eye while the registers rang. They profited from the sale, and use of a controlled substance and if it were one of us, we’d be heading to Joliet while all our stuff got sold at police auction. Perp-walking players is pointless and it’s s smokescreen for the fact that the owners have borne nearly zero blame in this whole process. I’m not interested in which players were doping; I’m interested in seeing Bud and the MLB owners cabal answer for there part and until that happens, I’m just not interested.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 18, 2008 10:48 AM CDT reply actions

The other problem

is that is won’t clear anyone either.

If your name is on the list, you’re guilty. If your name isn’t, then somehow you beat the test.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh Timmers on May 18, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Yeah.

Hadn’t thought of that, but that’s likely enough to be true.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 18, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree

We know a lot of players used. We will never know the complete list or which players just tried it versus used consistently. I don’t care about lists of players.

Bud and the owners will never answer. They’ll just keep throwing the players under the bus. It doesn’t matter anymore.

by rlpete on May 18, 2008 10:52 AM CDT reply actions

LSA, re:

Bud and the owners will never answer. They’ll just keep throwing the players under the bus.

Exactly.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 18, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions

can't this be over

and let us go back to rooting for our baseball team?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 18, 2008 11:18 AM CDT reply actions

I'll tell you this

How many players have tested positive this year? And last year?

I don’t believe for a second that the tests being done today are being effective at all. You may want this episode to be over, no more talk, etc., but all that that will de is let history repeat itself.

by Luis on May 18, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions

honestly

I’m not sure that I care.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 18, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions

In that case I understand your point (np)

by Luis on May 18, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions

I hope this proves

That the typical steriod users are not the superstars. but the guys that are barely making league minimum.

by berselius on May 18, 2008 11:59 AM CDT reply actions

I agree

Sincerely,

The Rocket, Barry and Raffy

by rlpete on May 18, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

fair point on your part

but he also has a point. Think about this: The difference between what a journeyman, barely making it MLB player makes and what a Best player ever in AAA who just can’t quite cut it in the bigs makes is gigantic. The incentive to take steroids and make the jump is huge.

The incentive isn’t as large for an exceptional player who already has the necessary skills and is already making a lot of money.

I know, i know, a lot of the best players did use, but, in my opinion, the logic is sound.

by tal1286 on May 18, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions

No, not really...

We don’t know what it means. Mostlikely, the illegal enhancers being used these days are not detectable by urine tests and very likely cannot even be detected blood tests. So just because journeymen came back as being the ones who are more often being caught, it likely just means that the superstars are using very sophisticated supplements that are equally as illegal but not at all detectable.

DmL

by dmlichte on May 18, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Why do I feel that some how

some way, this will find a way to have a negative impact on the Cubs.

OK guys, blow this crap off. You’re leading the division with a chance to start putting some daylight between you and the Cards, Milw and ‘stros.

by blackhawk24 on May 18, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions

So, here's why I want this list out.

Players get money based on their performance. However, if a positive steroid test is made public, teams may be likely to sign or give these players extensions. I’m not saying these people don’t deserve an extra chance, but look at the Brewers. Would you want your team to spend 10 mil on a guy who was on the list? No, he needs a low salary to prove himself with benefits later.

I think this list being made public won’t necessarily help restore dignity and honesty to the sport (heck, no sport is in good shape right now), but I think it will help teams and GM’s to stop giving large money to unproven ex-steroid users.

.... Edit #6: We're gonna go 156 and 6 this year, I can feel it!!!

by Beaushek on May 18, 2008 4:05 PM CDT reply actions

At this point...

... I suspect those who tested positive in the past are going to be given a pass… and anyone who NOW tests positive, post-Mitchell report, may be dealt with more harshly.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 18, 2008 5:20 PM CDT reply actions

MLB players have gotten their act together

I’d be shocked if more than one or two names test postive anymore. Maybe I’m naive but I think the new testing process has cleaned the game up significantly.

In terms of past transgressions? Well, I think a lot of players were on the juice. The Mitchell Report scratched the surface based on the narrow band of players, trainers and suppliers investigated by that team. But we all know there were others. To include Sam-ME Steroid in Chicago. His 600 HRs should be severely discounted. I guess the court of public opinion will ultimately catch up with guys like Sosa, Bagwell and others. Sammy and Bagwell will never get even 30% of the Hall of Fame vote when their turns on the ballot come up. And there will be a number of others where HOF balloting will bite them in the ass,

Mr. Towers, tear down this wall (er, I mean give us back Greg Maddux) !

by MDBNIU on May 18, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions

So, MDBNIU,

when did Sammy flunk a test? Where in the Mitchell Report was he named, even tangenitally? So, it is all a conspiracy by the best players, the owners and Buddy boy too? OH, yeah. I forgot, you can tell by the way Sammy grew from the 19 year old to the 30 year old. If you look at his numbers, he peaked and tailed off with age, unlike Clemens and Bonds, who got better as they aged. Funny, not a scintilla of proof. Ok, 19 year old, just a bit under 6 feet tall, 145 pounds, medium shirt. 30 years old just a bit under 6 feet tall, 205 pounds, 2x shirt and bigger hat. Sammy? Nope, me. No steroids. I hope some day you are sitting in a county jail for something you didn’t do, but you looked guilty, fit the description. And then you will realize what a foolish ass you are for convicting someone without any evidence.
Man, I am just so sick of the guilt by looks, no blown test. I guess you just KNOW all. Just show ANY bit of real evidence and I will join the Sammy bashers. Shit, even Canseco didn’t name Sammy. Whoops, here comes Jose’s third book…....

by crazymountain on May 18, 2008 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions

you're as sure that

Sammy won’t get into the HoF as you are that Soriano is a guess-hack selfish hitter, right?

Alfonso Soriano is 20-for-37 on this homestand (.541) with seven homers in his last six games. He has led off the last five games with a hit.

Uh-huh. Sosa should be very happy; he’s a shoe-in on his first ballot.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 18, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Write it down right now...

Sammy Sosa will never receive even 40% of the necessary 75% BBWOA vote to gain admission into the Hall of Fame.

Sammy Sosa was poster child for the steroid era of baseball. Right next to Mark McGwire. I could care less if you agree with that statement or not. All I know is that the big majority of baseball “experts” and viewing public agree strongly with me.

I’m done debating Sammy Steroid.

Rich Harden is the missing link to a 2008 World Series Championship for the Cubs !

by MDBNIU on May 18, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions

you're done

because as usual, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Sosa never tested positive. You can presume guilt all you want; it never happened.

He’s got a good chance of getting into the Hall of Fame. He was the second guy to beat Roger Maris’ record, and he and McGwire did it in the same year.

So, you keep on making those pronouncements of yours, Blue Mike. Sometimes it’s just enough to serve as a warning, rather than an example. Find your niche!

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 18, 2008 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions

And he says..

... “I’m done debating Sammy Steroid.”

Somehow, I doubt that’s true.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 19, 2008 4:02 AM CDT up reply actions

You can't debate anything, MDBNIU

it takes a brain to debate. That, you f’ing idiot is something you do not have.

by crazymountain on May 18, 2008 11:40 PM CDT up reply actions

While we all...

... generally agree with your comment, the name-calling was not called for.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al Yellon on May 19, 2008 4:01 AM CDT up reply actions

And, you are right Al....

as my post shows, I too am a brainless f’ing idiot, letting my temper get the best of me. My apologies to you, MDBNIU, my fellow posters, and to you also Al. You run a fine site and, while I am very new to your site and to blogs in general (this site is my first experience with a blog) I need to rein in my emotional outbursts. Again folks, please accept my sincere apology.

by crazymountain on May 19, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Seems that Soriano has been guessing right, MDBNIU....

And, it seems that you are always guessing wrong.

by crazymountain on May 18, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions

i stopped caring years ago

the ‘Steroids Era’ is over. MLB finally has some sort of testing period (not perfect, but it’s a start), and it’s working. Homeruns AND average fastball velocity are both down since ‘03. i dunno about the rest of you, but that’s good enough for me.

I no longer care who got caught and who didn’t. i no longer care about the why’s or the hows. I just want the whole issue to go away so i can enjoy a baseball game again.

by Petrie000 on May 18, 2008 10:27 PM CDT reply actions

Well

Perhaps I’m cynical or perhaps some of you are naive. I don’t know. But I just don’t believe people aren’t using anymore, and I mean a significant amount of people. You can see it in other sports. Testing does not deter use, at best it may lower it. The fact that MLB doesn’t let the testing be done independently is very telling IMO. Why? Because they use number of positive tests to claim the sport is clean. But of course they can make the testing suck so that there are a small number of positive tests. What other reason could they have to fight independent testing?

by Luis on May 18, 2008 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions

I agree with you Luis

people who think the problem has gone away are being pretty naive. I’m as sick of hearing about it as anybody but I also think the more that juicing is talked about, the better the chance players will be more reluctant to try cheating. And as much as we might want the whole thing to go away, it unfortunately is a stain that’s going to linger for a long time.

by bluekoolaide on May 18, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions

i know it's still going on

i’m not naive enough to think the problem’s gone away, i just hope to got the witch hunt hysteria is. if you catch somebody, by all means punish them, but i just want all the hack reporters to stop playing detective and Jose Canseco to shut the hell up. nobody’s ever gonna be punished for using it before ‘06, so what’s the point?

by Petrie000 on May 19, 2008 11:15 PM CDT up reply actions