Soriano is Piniella's problem
I am an unabashed supporter of Lou Piniella. That being said he has horribly mismanaged Alfonso Soriano since day one of spring training. Now Piniella has a full blown mess on his hands.
This is where Piniella needs to earn his money. This is where Piniella needs to stop coddling Soriano and stop with the rationalization of sunnier days in the future. Soriano is a certified bust. Banking on him getting hotter than shit for several weeks a season doesn't justify his presence the rest of the season. Not even remotely so.
The second worst contract disaster in baseball next to Barry Zito.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.
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Yeah, that's productive
Let’s ignore the feeble groundouts, strikeouts and three butcher jobs in the outfield. Keep your nose where it belongs.
Soriano was responsible
for all three cubs runs tonight.
He’s not perfect. We know that. However, the use of the word “disaster” does not apply.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 2, 2008 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm sorry
shouldnt have let him get to me!! i apologize for my outburst and wont let it happen again.
Go Cubbies Go!!!!!!
Give Lou some time
my guess is Soriano, who had a good night tonight, either puts it together quickly, or Lou takes him to the video room and works his magic, talking him into voluntarily moving down in the line-up.
had a good night?
No, he did not have a good night. He hit a big 2 run HR, his only hit since coming off the DL, which boosted his season average above .150. But he dropped two balls he should have had no problem getting to. He also left runners on base. Soriano is supposed to hit HRs. Had he not dropped two balls earlier, that HR would have meant something.
DmL
My Soriano Issue
Everyone I was watching tonights game was like “Soriano made up for his playing by hitting the homerun”. I say Soriano SHOULD be hitting the HR anyway and not making those mistakes…he wasn’t making up for anything.
well....
obviously fonzies leg is NOT 100% or he catches both of those balls hit tonight and the one last night!
Namecalling is NOT acceptable at this site.
Do NOT do this again.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
why?
perhaps not the most well written but there are some real issues with Soriano and there are some real issues with how he’s being managed. The two run HR was wonderful. Soriano is not playing well, though.
This could have
been posted in two of the other Soriano fanposts that are current or in the game thread. BlueMike just posts this stuff because he hates Soriano and says it at least ten times a day. It’s beyond ridiculous.
True
How about Rich Hill tonight, just lovely. People need to get off Soriano ass, the guy is here to stay.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
are u forgetting....
last year if not for soriano the cubs don’t make the post season!!i am more concerned about the bullpen and starters at this point!
I disagree with this contention
People want to talk about the two months of stellar play out of Soriano while not paying attention to the four months of mediocrity. You seem to feel that w/o Soriano, the Cubs would have had a little leaguer in LF. I’d much rather have had a left fielder who was putting up consistent numbers all last season rather than the peaks and valleys that is Alfonso.
DmL
My point is
You can rag on Soriano till you turn blue, it is not going to do a damn bit of good.
1. Who would trade for the guy with his contract
2. He is going to play no matter what.
He is a Cub, simple as that, go ahead crucify him, but he will be in left tomorrow.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
That wasn't directed to you.
It was to this specifically:
“I’d much rather have had a left fielder who was putting up consistent numbers all last season rather than the peaks and valleys that is Alfonso.”
Simply put, if you have two outfielders of roughly equivelent production – a 115 OPS+ or so – DmL is saying he would rather have one who was more consistent in providing that production, rather than a streaky player like Soriano. Ignoring for a moment that he’s arguing from a false premise, I’m wondering what his reasons are.
he's not untradeable
the Philles and Dodgers would likely be interested, as would the Angels. The Mets likely need a longterm solution in left field too now that i think about it. you wouldn’t get equal value back, that’s for sure, but the contract isn’t that extreme these days.
A quarter-million dollars for A-Rod was tradeable.
Any contract is theoretically tradeable, under the right conditions and if you eat enough salary. It’s completely irrelelvant.
Don't see it.
Your telling me, (1) The Cubs will eat money, and if they do how much.
(2) A guy that is owed, what, 118 Million, hurt twice in the last two years, doesn’t run like he is used to, and is at best an average outfielder, and one, two maybe three teams would be interested, yikes.
Ok Cubs trade him to the Phillies, we eat, say, 60 million and we get Jason Werth back, fair deal
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Soriano's not that bad
don’t be melodramatic, Soriano’s a better fielder than half the LF’s in Baseball. I don’t think Soriano’s a complete bum, i just don’t think he fits in very well with the Cubs. The man can still hit, and even with his leg injuries he’s at worst and average runner. so yeah, i think there’d be a few teams interested in trading for him if he was on the market, and i don’t think we’d have to eat half the remaining salary to do it.
Quarter-trillion
I think it was
"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome
Because there are other players on the team
Over the course or normal play, other players are going to have good games, too. There are going to be days when players have good games and bad games. What a team needs is different players to pick the team up on different days. Perhaps its statistically unimportant if a player picks his team up on Monday, Friday and Saturday versus picking his team up in July and September. To me, you want a situation where players compliment each other and its difficult for that to happen when one of your key players goes dormant for a month at a time.
my biggest issue is the “well for 2 months, Soriano carried this team”. This is ignoring the fact that for months at a time Soriano was useless. So I guess you can argue that two months of output is two months of output, whether its spread out or not. My bigger issue is that those who bitch about people who have issues with Soriano’s output because Soriano carried the team for two months don’t recognize that there are 6 months to the season.
DmL
Eating Salary
Theres been talk about the Zito situation, some outlets speculating they would have to eat as much as 80 million of his remaining salary inorder to move him, so I would imagine the Cubs would have to do at least that.
ive been ragging on him on here too, but that homer last nite was awesome and it reminded me of how exciting he can be, and Brenly brought up a good point, that he really only, truly ” leads off” once a game. The problem, as I see it, is that if he were batting 5th or 6th, the guys ahead of him (lee, ram, fukudome) are more likely to get on base than the bottom of the order. So even though hed only be “leading off” once a game, the rbi chances would be greater in the middle of the order, and if cant even steal bags anymore, his leadoff value diminishes even further.
I like him a lot, hes fun to watch, but I really cant shake the feeling that Hendry didnt do this signing rationally, like he was overcompensating after missing out on Beltran and Furcal…like he talked himself into the fact that he would be fine at the top of the order.
But youre right, hes a Cub, for better or worse, and hes still an All-Star.
Soriano Is Rusty...
... both offensively and defensively. Piniella will likely give him 5 games as a pass and then start pressing.
BTW – I don’t see it now that the Cubs are 1.5 games out of first. I see it that we are 1 game ahead of the Brewers. The Cardinals will not be there in September…
Jacque Jones is gone, and I doubt Ivan DeJesus would mind this!
IT IS MAY
May 2nd to be exact, Goodness chill out. When I come to Chicago with family for the weekend Of Aug 1, he will be hitting .275, 22-25 HRs, and 65 RBI”s, not great, but not the biggest bust in history.
Freaking relax
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
hey dml...
when u can find me a left fielder who is among the league leaders in outfield assists,hits around.290,and can hit about 40+ homers per year(he missed a month last year) u let me know ok!
I'd prefer one...
with an OBP slightly higher than .325. Soriano had no business on the field tonight, a sentiment echoed by the Cubs broadcast team. He isn’t earning his money and he is going to hear that. Most concerning, though, are that the weaknesses in his game are getting worse. His fielding is simply horrid and whether its his superstar status or his selfish nature, Piniella is not managing him correctly.
This is like Alex Gonzalez 2003, when people lauded him for a few late inning HR heroics that won the Cubs some dramatic games. They failed to recognize that for every late inning HR, Gonzo’s strike-outs and overall consistency was costing the Cubs more.
I get it, Soriano is here for a while. I know that. This doesn’t make him safe from criticism, and right now his presence in the line-up is costing the Cubs games.
DmL
If his play is like this in July
you got a point, It is May, he just missed two weeks, I give him a little more slack.
Question: Don’t you think he knows he is sucking right now?. I would have to bet he is trying his best the outcome right now is not productive. I like his chances of coming out of this soon.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
Wait.
You don’t like Soriano?
We all get it. You think he’s an overrated player who is mediocre for way too much of the season. Now please leave the rest of us alone.
It's gotta be the shoes, folks, it's gotta be the shoes...
Ha
Actually, he thinks he is a guess hitting hack, second tier, biggest bust.
YADA YADA. I was more pissed that he admired that homer after an embarasing game.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
Right?
He is not humble and that is what pisses me off about him. He will pick it up I guarantee…as he always does but how bout some humble pie after pissing away a couple games single handedly?
Calm down.
If Soriano can not play his position
he needs to be put back on the DL until he can. Also, if Soriano is in the lineup he should not be batting lead-off. I know….I know….this has been discussed to death but after seeing his at bats the past few days he’s got to be moved down in the order. Maybe it’s only until he starts hitting again, but until he gets it together he just can’t lead off. I believe(at least it better be so) that his lack of hustle in the outfield is due to his injury, if he can’t make those plays he isn’t healthy enough to play. It’s not like we were hurting for his offense.
Oh Ok
do you think there 18 million a year investment will go on the DL becasuse he is a hack in the OF, nice call, tell that to the person who is signing the checks.
"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"
All I can say is:

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
I think a better point is....
Why did he not have a rehab assignment. He looked off balance at the plate, and did not have the routes in LF. I do not get why he gets a pass from a couple of games at AAA.
He had a big part of the last two losses. I think Lou exploded at the post game press conf. because he knew he should have put Reed in left in the late innings. Pulling Ronnie tonight after ge gets ANOTHER hit. I am a little lost with Lou’s calls the past few games.
Good Guys Wear Blue
I agree...
...there is no need to “blame” Soriano or coddle him. He is off to a poor start, what else is new-he sucks as a lead off man-what else is new—his injury has apparently significantly hindered his defense. Quit being a baby and a baby sitter and tell the guy he has to hit lower AND he’s coming out late because his leg is not 100%. If his leg is 100% then tell him to get his head out of his rear end, this is the majors. Fans would actually respect Soriano if they saw him being a team guy. Sosa was clueless about this, too….I am just pissed after 2 lousy losses.
I am worried about that, too...LOL!
At least they basically told Hill he’s done as a starter in public comments.
Forget Soriano
Everyone knew at the beginning of the season that Jim didn’t go out and get any pitching. This team might win the comedy central, but that is all they will win if they stand pat with there army of number 4&5 pitchers. If we had a starter that could pitch deeper than 2 outs in the first inning we might have been able to accept Sori’s misreads in the outfield. I am not even excited this year because I know the heartbreak is coming in the fall…unless Jim gets them some pitching.
well, since we have at least three
I don’t get your hyperbole. Z, Demp and now Lilly is getting it together too. I bet Lieber will pitch well too. We’ll see about Marquis.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Good points
Pitching is king in baseball, and truth is our pitching isn’t good enough. Even in the watered down National League.
Once again,
do you ever read or double check anything before you type? Diarrhea of the fingertips.
With a team ERA of 3.94, the Cubs have the 4th best team ERA in the NL, and the 11th best team ERA in MLB. Moreover, here’s some teams who I’d wager most people think have better pitching staffs than the Cubs, yet rank below the Cubs in team ERA:
Cleveland
San Diego
Boston
Cincinnati
Angels
Detroit
Everything looks bad when you’re losing. The Cubs are in a bad stretch, and they look bad, especially the pitching. My Little league coach was fond of saying, “You’re never as good as you look when you’re winning, and you’re not really as bad as you look when you’re losing.” I think there’s some truth to that. The Cubs are going through a rough stretch and it’s hard to watch, but these rough stretches are only exacerbated by your factually inaccurate spleen.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Whatever
I’m not going to debate the “back of the bubblegum” crowd when it comes to pitching staff assessment. Fact is our starting rotation is overly populated with back of the rotation types and question marks. We also have a dubious bullpen and a closer situation that causes indigestion.
Our pitching staff wasn’t good enough for the long haul when we were 9 games over .500 a few days ago. The ups and downs week-to-week of the season don’t chance the factual dilemma of our pitching. And what on earth is accomplished by comparing us to other playoff caliber teams??? Rationalize to death all you want. I won’t. Pitching is king in baseball and right now our pitching is of legitimate serious concern.
Wonderful response.
I’ll parse it for everyone: “I have no idea what I’m talking about, so I’ll respond to factual claims with bland assertions, devoid of content and requiring no effort or actual knowledge.”
It’s nice that you’ve moved on from a specific target of your groundless bile-Soriano-to a much more vague, faceless one—”pitching.” It’s much easier to form unsubstantiated opinions and state them as incontrovertible facts about something as nebulous as “pitching.” What sort of pitching do you mean? Starting pitching? Relief pitching? If it’s the latter, then there’s even more ambiguity in your statements. Do you mean long relief? Short relief? The fireman role? The front end of the bullpen? The back end? The closer? What do you mean when you say “pitching is king?” Or did you just hear Buster only say that about 50 times on Mike and Mike in the Morning this week and decide to repeat it here?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
Heres a virtual hug
great post…...and I know I couldnt say it better.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
And what on earth is accomplished by comparing us to other playoff caliber teams???
Because we are a playoff caliber team, even if you refuse to see it.
The bright side of our pitching woes is that we have depth in AAA to bring up. We’re going to be fine. Lieber is a rock. Hill is going to take care of his issues. Z is becoming a true ace, and Lilly has actually pitched well his last three outings.
And I have faith in Woody. He’s going to figure this out.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 4, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
Right, then.
5 of those 6 teams are in the American League, where there is a DH and, most people feel, better overall competition. An equal staff will have a higher ERA there.
The Cubs’ bullpen overall is at best going to stay even. Howry, Wuertz and Wood have been off to slow starts and I believe, based on their track records and their stuff, that they’ll improve. Lieber has been pitching over his head to make up for those slow starts but he’s moving to the rotation for the time being. He would have come to earth anyway (based on career numbers), and now the innings he would have pitched will be pitched by a less-experienced player, so it’s hard to predict how they’ll go; he’ll go deeper into his starts than Hill, though, which will help the whole ‘pen. Marmol is off to an exceptional start but… he might just be that damn good. As for his workload, I was looking today and… in 2007 he threw 40 innings in AAA before his 69 in the majors, but most of his minor-league appearances have been starts. I have no rational basis on which to claim he either can or can’t handle the load he’s carried so far this year. Wild cards include the return of Scott Eyre, Marshall perhaps taking on more long work, and the performance of Gallagher and Fox, or anyone that replaces them if they’re sent back down. Overall, I think all this adds up to the bullpen getting only slightly worse (Lieber’s hot start will be hard to match), as long as Marmol’s arm stays attached to his body and the starters can give them all enough rest.
The rotation, however, might look considerably worse by the end. Zambrano is good, but probably not as good as his start has been based on past performance. If he keeps his walks down he may have a career year (his BABIP is a very normal .299, which says to me that his start has been due to good pitching, not luck), but he’s had a career full of hot and cold months, and that type of performance is tough to keep up even for the best pitchers. Lilly looked to have some velocity back today, and I’m inclined to think he’ll be OK. His improvement will be compensated for by Dempster’s fall-to-earth; Demp has never been anywhere near this good for a full season and his BABIP is .192 right now. Marquis has looked shaky early, having to scratch out of lots of jams, (WHIP over 1.6!) but his BABIP is .342; his walk, strikeout, and home-run rates (3.18, 5.40, 0.95 respectively per 27 outs) are slightly better than his career numbers (3.49, 5.40, 1.23), so I have hope that he can settle into an average season. He’s gotta pitch deeper into games. Since he’s been unlucky to allow lots of hits and lucky that so few have come in to score, I think his ERA is about where it will end up, but he’ll go a slight bit deeper into games on average. That is, until he runs out of gas late in the season, as he so often has. The last spot is now Lieber’s, and recent history would predict very consistent, very league-average work from him, and just over 6 innings per start. TLDR: Z down somewhat, Demp way down, Lilly up somewhat, Marquis about the same (until late) and Lieber bein’ Lieber. That adds up to the rotation giving up slightly more runs than they have to this point.
This is all my own opinion, and I speak from a position of very little authority. It assumes no injuries, no further Rich Hill sightings, and that nobody falls flat on his face or becomes suddenly amazing. None of these are necessarily good assumptions. But I think the overall analysis supports the idea that the Cubs’ pitchers overall will give up more runs per game than they have, and that their rotation really consists of one ace and four guys who are 3rd-4th starters on an average team. It isn’t a rotation that will carry an average offense to contend. It’s more realistic that the offense will carry this team to contention. Is the pitching a concern, as MDBNIU says? Well, if Wuertz, Howry, and Wood don’t pick it up, then it is a serious concern; if Lieber eats innings as a starter and Lilly looks like a solid 2-3 starter like he did today, it’s less of a concern.
Could this be MDBNIU's new alias?
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on May 4, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions
And it's too reasonable.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
MDBNIU, take note: this is how you make a rational criticism
of the pitching problems on the Cubs.
The point about the DH is well taken, but like I said, most would argue that even with that being the case, those teams have better staffs than the Cubs. That being said, though, Dempster is likely pitching over his head, so I expect a regression to the mean there, but I agree that a resurgent Lilly likely offsets that problem. Marquis and Hill, OTOH, give me pause. I’d expect Marquis to be moved by the deadline and Hill to remain at AAA for at least a month, with Lieber and Gallagher taking those rotation slots.
I think you’re overlooking a couple things in the ‘pen: one, Wuertz and Howry, over both their careers, start out slow. They’ve posted their worst ERA’s in April and may and then been pretty solid thereafter. Just as much as I expect Dempster to regress, I expect a return to form for Howry and Wuertz. Wood is, well, he’s Kerry Wood. I think in order to be successful, he’s got to realize he just needs to throw strikes. He’s got the strikeout mentality, but I think he’s beginning to realize he just needs to make guys put the bat on the ball. It’s going to be highs and lows with him all year.
Remember, the Rockies made it last season with a rotation that wasn’t really any better than this year’s Cub rotation.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
I think Wood...
... has the closer’s mentality, but lacks understanding of one thing: that the closer has only one inning. If a starting pitcher has too much adrenaline and overthrows and hits the first batter he faces, he’s got several innings to get out of it.
A closer doesn’t have that luxury. Maybe Wood needs to calm himself a little before each outing, and as you say, focus on throwing strikes rather than just throwing the ball as hard as he can.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
That's my sense of it, as well.
Wood still thinks a bit too much like a starter. He’s talented enough, though, that I think he’ll adjust.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
No way
I have heard people say over and over that he is a huge contract bust and I couldn’t disagree any more. The guy was hurt for part of last year and still hurt 30+ home runs and stole nearly 20 bases. Did anyone realistically think he would throw up 40/40 years again?! Come on. The guy didn’t hit for crap last April and he turned out alright. Come see me June 1 and I may change my mind.
TIRED OF THIS!!!!!!!!
does no one remeber last september when soriano led this team to a division title????? SORIANO IS A STREAKY PLAYER GET USED TO IT!!!!!!!!!!
by BelieveinBlue2314 on May 3, 2008 11:40 AM CDT reply actions
You're right, despite the hype of all the !'s.
It’s entirely possible that Soriano could go on a three-week hot streak and carry this team starting tonight. Is it likely? No. But it wasn’t likely last September, either.
I suspect Soriano came back a little too soon, and his ego should have been parked while he had a rehab assignment, the purpose of which, as was noted on WGN last night, isn’t “rehab”, it’s getting your timing down.
We’re stuck with him, so the only valid criticism is where he should be hitting in the lineup. If I were Lou, I might shake up the lineup today just to put a bug up the butt of some players.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
Yeah, a rehab stint was/is definitely necessary.
Soriano did uncharacteristically horrible last night. You can’t take a 15 day break from baseball and expect to get back up to par by shagging fly balls from your hitting coach and taking batting practice.
I’m not worried about him yet though. I think he’ll come around.
We definitely need to figure out our starting pitching, thats a bigger question mark.
Lilly has looked better lately, Marquis has been mediocre as of late, and Hill looks like his head is about to explode because he is over thinking. I say we send Hill down to the minors to tune up for a couple weeks and put Lieber in the rotation.
The Time Is Now. [Chicago Cubs, '08]
^^^ Only problem....
with taking Lieber out of the ‘pen is that you don’t have that solid long man.
Here’s a question: If Hill gets sent to the minors and Lieber is inserted into the rotation, who is our long man?
Sean Gallagher?
The Time Is Now. [Chicago Cubs, '08]
I think today's roster move answered your question.
n/t
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
We all need to CALM DOWN!!! AHHH
Guys this isn’t the second worst contract in the history of baseball. Look at his track record, he will get hot and as bad as he has been playing now, he will slowly start to redeem himself….although it will be very hard to forget about his appalling defense in yesterday’s game.
Furthermore, we can talk about how he shouldn’t hit leadoff, but in all honesty, that is where he hits best. He is not a typical leadoff man, but with theriot a high obp/pitch count threat in the two whole, its not a big deal. The cubs have a very deep lineup and he gets/will get plenty of RBI opportunities.

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