Rolling Along: Cubs 7, Astros 2
by Al on May 20, 2008 8:29 AM CDT
in Recaps
416 comments
That's how this feels, doesn't it? The wins are starting to get routine... I know, I know, we shouldn't take anything for granted. But this team is winning games in a fashion we haven't seen since 1984, or maybe 1969, or maybe even in a lifetime that few of us have seen, the pre-1945 era when the Cubs actually won pennants every few years.
SHHHH! I know, it's early. Yesterday's 7-2 Cub win over the Astros, their ninth in their last 11 games, was the mark of what you see when a good team gets on a roll.
There, I said it: the Cubs are a good team. Maybe the best team in the league, though I do know there are still holes to be filled. Once again, different heroes showed up last night. Alfonso Soriano, so hot last week, cooled off by going 0-for-4 (with a walk, one of three that put the team total at 204). No matter. Geovany Soto decided to take matters into his own hands by hitting a ball to the far reaches of the Juice Box that nearly everyone except the umpires saw hit to the right of the yellow line -- that would have made it a home run by rule. The umpires, instead, said it was in play, and that made things more exciting, because the not-fleet Soto (who has zero SB attempts and only one triple in his ML career) flew around the bases for a three-run, inside-the-park HR.
We learned last night that it has been nearly 49 years since a Cub catcher last hit an inside-the-park HR. Cal Neeman, a not-very-good backup C (he hit only .162 that year), was the hitter, and what you didn't hear about that June 17, 1959 blast is that it broke a 2-2 tie in the 8th inning and won the game for the Cubs. See the play-by-play at the above link.
Jim Edmonds made one of his patented, back-to-the-plate, turn-my-shoulders-around, do-the-hokey-pokey catches in CF on that ridiculous hill in Houston. It made the highlight reels, but what wasn't said at the time is that Felix Pie would have made that catch in a routine manner, because Pie would have been playing deeper to begin with and because Pie is faster than Edmonds. It's been said that Edmonds deliberately plays shallow so he can make these catches look harder than they really are, and I think there's something to that. In any case, he did make the play and also had a single in five at-bats, which isn't going to make anyone forget that Pie could probably do everything Edmonds has done so far in a Cub uniform.
Ted Lilly wasn't great last night, but sharp enough, and when Michael Wuertz got hit hard by the only two batters he faced, Lou called on Carlos Marmol again. What we need is to get larger leads early, so that Marmol, who has now thrown in 23 of the first 45 games, doesn't have his arm fall off by the beginning of September. He's going to be just as needed in October (he said, optimistically) as he is now.
But these are quibbles. I shouldn't complain too much, because these Cubs seem to have a quiet confidence about going out there every day to win, and knowing that if one player goes cold (Derrek Lee, who has hit only .171 so far this month, may get a day off on Wednesday), someone else will pick up the slack. And of that, championship teams can be made. A nod also to Aramis Ramirez, who hit his first home run since April 23, to put the game out of reach in the ninth inning, and also to Bob Howry, who threw probably his best inning of the year so far to finish up. That's important because if Howry, Marmol and Kerry Wood are all throwing well, you can probably shut down virtually every game where the Cubs have the lead after six.
Notes: Chad Fox went on the DL with "ulnar neuritis" (fancy words for "sore elbow"), and Jose Ascanio was recalled from Iowa. Ascanio will wear uniform #58, which was last worn by Geovany Soto. May Ascanio have as much success as Soto has. Trivia: there have been only three other players: Ben Van Ryn (1998), Richard Barker (1999), and Mike Mahoney (2000,2002), and one coach (Fred Martin, 1961-1965), to ever wear #58. (Nod to BCB reader kaseyi and his all-time Cub uniform number page for the info.)
Cub streaks so far this year:
Lost 3 of first 4 Won 14 of next 17 Lost 9 of next 13 Won 9 of next 11
Finally, to differentiate the game recaps from game threads and other main-page posts, I am today starting, and will continue, to put the final score of the game in the recap title.
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So now what
Do people think of Edmonds? Al? I thought everybody said his fielding would be sub par but hopefully his bat would make up for it. Almost seems to be the other way around. I haven’t really seen too much from his bat so far.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Too early to tell after two games.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm happy he's contributing
but I still think it was a bad signing. Al’s right; so far he hasn’t done anything Pie couldn’t have done – in fact I thought the same thing; Pie would have made that catch look routine with his speed. I’m really dreading watching ball after ball fall in to the gap in left center between two subpar outfielders.
by false cognate on May 20, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HOW?
How is he a bad signing? We are paying him under $300K…....It’s a low risk pickup…Ask almost anyone who they would rather have to the plate in a high pressure playoff game…...Edmonds or Pie and 98% say Edmonds,,,,he has way more experience….....Do I think Pie would have gotten that ball? yeah…....was it a great catch? yeah….....give him a break….he’s played two games for the Cubs…....his bat can’t get any worse then Pie’s.
by Ottumwacubsfan on May 20, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that
is why we hired an ageing released ball-player to replace our top prospect?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats it....
He’s just a prospect…...........sure he’s showing signs of being great…..but we’ve all seen he can’t hit big league ball on a consistant basis…..I like him….....he’s just not there yet….....
by Ottumwacubsfan on May 20, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm...
Edmonds has indeed been worse than Pie at the plate this season. To wit:
Edmonds, 99 AB: .182/.261/.232, OPS+ of 36
Pie, 63 AB: .222/.286/.286, OPS+ of 48
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
Pie’s batting had a big jump this year - he’s hitting far better than Johnson - and he hasn’t had the chance to show he can maintain it.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, to be fair,
Johnson’s are the better numbers:
Pie, 63 AB: .222/.286/.286, OPS+ of 48
Reed, 129 AB: .256/.340/.326, OPS+ of 73
It’s sad the Reed’s had twice as many plate appearances, but it would be wrong to say that Pie is outhitting him.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but let's look at the magic of platoon splits.
(After all, Blue Mike says I’m a sabermagician!)
vs. RHP:
Johnson, .256/.315/.341
Pie, .245/.317/.321
Johnson’s still better, but by so little that you’re really splitting hairs.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah,
and in an admittedly small sample, Pie was hitting better than Reed on the month.
Reed, in 48 May AB: .188/.273/.313
Pie, in 19 May AB: .263/.300/.316
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
that’s what I was thinking of when I made the statement.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In that case, you're right.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, partly right...
I wouldn’t say Pie was hitter FAR better than Johnson. I’d say he was hitter better, but a .030 difference in OPS isn’t far better, especially given such a small sample size. But he was doing better than Johnson at the time of his demotion.
In either case, neither was doing well. Hopefully Pie was improving, but that’s irrelevant now unfortunately.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
you could make the argument that Pie was outhitting Johnson over the recent stretch right before Pie was sent down. But I think it was pretty close, and I don’t think Pie was doing that well either.
In any case, we haven’t really been getting any production from any of our CF.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, you are right, drewishdrewid
no arguement for the signing of Edmunds to replace Pie makes any sense. We even give him a better spot in the order and he still doesn’t do anything Pie is capable of…
by crazymountain on May 20, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and.......
Wasn’t Reed Johnson released by the Blue Jays? Being released doesn’t mean they can’t play…....
by Ottumwacubsfan on May 20, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither does being a 'prospect'
mean that Pie can’t play. He just never got a chance, which is why Edmunds signing makes no sense.
by crazymountain on May 20, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What 98% wanted the Cubs to sign Edmonds?
by crazymountain on May 20, 2008 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
60% of the time, it works every time....
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That smells like pure gasoline.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It burns the nostrils...
But in a good way, right?
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's quite pungent
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that will be $5.14....
for just mentioning the word gasoline.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on May 20, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sad, but true.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn.
I need an image of a guy commited suicide with a pump handle in place of a gun.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
done.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's x'ed
on my work computer, but I’m gonna trust it’s awesome.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's on my photobucket album...
you gotta bribe you IT guys to unblock photobucket for you.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bottom of the 9th with two outs and a lefty pitching…..down by one and runners on 2nd and 3rd..who do you want to be batting Pie or Edmonds?
by Ottumwacubsfan on May 20, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ONEDEC!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
David Ortiz.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
William Bendix
"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP
by Bump Bailey on May 20, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is
Would he point to where he was going to hit it?
by AlabamaCubFan on May 20, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roy Hobbs
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Garagiola.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, the real answer is
Daryle Ward.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ding ding ding
"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella
by El Borto on May 20, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edmonds made a very nice catch...
...which should at least show he has something left in the tank regarding playing the field.
Would Pie have made that catch? Probably, because as Al pointed out, he plays a deeper CF. One thing not to overlook, when a CF can play shallow and still get to those deep balls, it is an advantage for your club. Most hits drop in front of the CF vs going over his head, and if you can grab some of those because of your shallow depth, it certainly helps.
We’ll see what happens with Edmonds bat, because that is what will determine whether he is here a month from now.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for pointing that out
People are so ready to dismiss Edmonds that they are going to make any argument. If he plays more shallow it means he will get to more balls hit in front of him. Aside from the scouting reports and defensive alignments each player has his style where he feels he benefits the team the most. If I recall correctly, Andruw Jones also liked to play shallow.
Edmonds is a no risk signing. Pie is working on his swing in AAA. He had an OPS+ of 48 no? Edmonds fails, you cut him, and you can bring Pie up. I just don’t get all complaining. People think Pie has nothing else to learn at AAA but I think they might end up being surprised. We shall see.
by Luis on May 20, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you think is the surprise?
What does Pie have left to learn that he learns best at AAA?
I won’t be surprised at all if he struggles in AAA right now. He’s had inconsistent playing time, his timing is off, and unless he is incredibly, abnormally strong mentally, he’s going to be suffering from the big vote of no confidence he got from his manager’s handling of him. People who think players don’t or shouldn’t suffer under that, I think forget that these are human beings playing baseball, not a set of statistics in a video game.
by DGU on May 20, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well for one thing
Know that Pie is more “famous” having been in the major leagues perhaps pitchers in AAA will make him a “marked man” and will pitch him more like they do in the bigs.
One other thing has to do with sample size. Many are assuming that because Pie destroyed AAA pitching in 229 ABs (2007) that that is his real level in that league. Well, as we all know, and has been remined here on many an ocassion, 229 is not enough to make a conclusion on a hitter. It is certainly plausible that he goes down there and doesn’t come close to the numbers he put up in 2007.
Like I said, we shall see.
by Luis on May 20, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about the "many"
but I assume Pie will hit based on his entire pro career, not just last year.
And as for your other point, what AAA pitcher starts pitching like a MLB pitcher because he’s facing a demoted major leaguer? Pie has trouble with ML level pitch movement. There aren’t many guys in AAA who have that movement. If they had it, either they wouldn’t be in AAA, or they are on their way out of AAA.
by DGU on May 20, 2008 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And btw
You are creating a no-lose situation for Pie: if he does well, it’s because he’s good, if he doesn’t do well it’s because all the reasons you pointed out. That’s not how things works. You can give him a “grace period” because of the situation but after that Pie will have to prove once again that he is above AAA pitching.
by Luis on May 20, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks Al. good synopsis of the game...
GoCubsGo
by MinnesotaFan on May 20, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Post again
I posted this on the overflow because I was inpatient waiting for the recap.
Better catch Johnson or Edmonds? I really am having trouble deciding because initially I would say Edmonds should have been looking over his right shoulder which would have made the catch a little more routine. Then I think about it and with that ball being hit by Pence (I think) it was probably tailing toward right center a bit. I think what Edmonds does so well is his ability to look down to find out where he is in relation to the track and the wall and then relocate the ball quickly. I’m leaning towards Johnson because of how far he covered and the fact he had to dive onto the track. I’m sure I can be convinced otherwise.
Side note, I really hope we don’t wear down Marmol to the point of being ineffective in the later part of the season and the playoffs. I wouldn’t mind giving him time off until the 23rd because the Cubs don’t have another off day until the 9th of June,
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on May 20, 2008 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Johnson....
That will be the catch of the year. That was unreal.
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on May 20, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson's catch was better.
There’s really no comparison.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Same words but you beat me to it.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great plays and effort by both of them, but
let me ask you, how many outs resulted? What was the game/inning situation? Naturally there is a fan amazement factor, appreciation that the athletic result that is part of the entertainment of the game.
But the reality is the result—-an out. I can’t recall Reed Johnson’s full bail out catch….going away (not the side) towards the wall on the track on an angle was a tremendous catch for an out. Edmunds certainly saved one possibly two runs….for Pence would have been in scoring position no doubt, possibly on 3rd. But the inning was over.
I will say this, over the years he goes back on balls better than I have seen, showboating is BS, he just can do it well. This is why he can hold runners taking an extra base or trying to score better than most. Now he is gimpy, probably a step or step and a half slower than years past.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on May 20, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely...
no question about it.
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on May 20, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reed Johnson
had the better catch IMO. I don’t really even see the comparison. Edmonds didn’t really take much of a risk there.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that is that but...
Al you didn’t mention what Len did in the broadcast, there is a trade off for having Edmonds play shallow. Is your dislike for Edmonds not allowing you to give kudos? I can understand because it is tough for me to give him any credit because I always disliked him. I think Edmonds catch was as difficult as Johnson’s.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on May 20, 2008 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it was a fine catch.
I still don’t think it was as good as Johnson’s.
The tradeoff for Edmonds playing shallow is that he can make those catches, but makes them look hard, when maybe they’re not.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al...
...that was a hard catch, trust me.
If you put the vast majority of CF as shallow as Edmonds was, that catch would not be easy for them. He might not have great wheels anymore, but he got an unbelievable jump on that ball.
That catch was nice, but it will be his bat that determines whether he lasts the rest of the year with the club.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, OK...
... I’ll grudgingly admit it was a good catch. Johnson’s was better. And you’re right, he has to hit, or what’s the point?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All thngs considered...
...Johnson’s catch was the best I have seen for a long long time.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Johnson put his body on the line to make his catch, covered a lot of ground, and had a more difficult line to the ball than Edmonds did. Edmonds had to run straight back, while Johnson has to pick the perfect diagonal line, otherwise he is nowhere near that ball.
Plus, the reaction to Johnson’s catch was better. just stunned disbelief. We’ve seen Edmonds do what he did last night before, so thats nothing new.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 20, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without a doubt...
Johnson’s catch was better
You ARE freaking out MAN!
by crw89 on May 20, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson
Johnson had to run it down, dive, make a catch with his glove at a very unforgiving angle, keep it in his glove after landing, and survive the crash into the wall. The nonchalant ball flip, and reactions from the bullpen and DeRosa were just icing on the cake.
All Edmonds had to do is run it down and make the catch with his glove at a much better angle. Still a tough catch, given the distance covered and navigating that stupid hill, but not spectacular. And I’m about to commit baseball heresy here, but for similar reasons I’ve never thought Willie Mays’ ‘famed’ catch in the ‘54 World Series was all that it’s been made up to be. All he did was run it down and make a nice over the shoulder catch. No dive, no crash, no reaching over the fence. But somehow it goes down as the greatest catch in history. It was a great play, and given the circumstances, it was a crucial play. But man, the way folks have beatified it over the years…. I’m sorry, but I never bought into all that. And I’m big Willie Mays fan.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 20, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I think why it’s so heralded (is that a word) is because it was like the first time anybody saw a catch like that. It wasn’t a difficult looking catch by any means but considering the times, it was spectacular because I guess you couldn’t imagine anybody else back then doing it. I still think Edmonds’ catch in 97 with the Angels is the greatest catch I’ve ever seen.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the difference with May's catch
Is that CF in the Polo Grounds was 483 feet, so just getting there was amazing. However the throw after the catch is what makes it so special….not to mention that it was in a World Series game…..
by crazymountain on May 20, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no question
It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa
by Emelie on May 20, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Al, we know that you don't like Edmonds
Give credit to the guy, though. Johnson’s catch was better, no doubt, but to say that Felix would have made the catch, not to mention downplay one of the better catches of the year, as merely a product of Edmonds playing shallow to try and make his catches look harder. That’s a stretch, even for a cubs fan who hates Edmonds. Take a step back and have some perspective. You’re entitled to your opinions, but that’s taking subjectivity a little too far, in my opinion.
by jmw676 on May 20, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think its just speculation
It has been said that 2 games is not long enough to tell what we will get from Edmonds. However Brenly did mention that Edmonds typically plays much more shallow that most CF, so he does have a point. Im not sure I agree, but we will see.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Torii Hunter
is actually the reference for the criticism of Edmonds, not our subjectivity. Torii said that he noticed Edmonds intentionally making catches look more difficult by slowing down so that he could dive or taking a slightly unique route to the ball.
So, our subjectivity has a very credible source. Nonetheless, Edmonds catch was impressive and required a level of hand eye coordination that most don’t have. I’m with Al though, Pie would have camped under that ball and made it a routine catch.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 20, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hunter's...
quote is speculation as well.
I’d say it would take a helluva lot of talent to be able to “purposely” slow down or take a unique route to make a circus catch in the major leagues.
Bad jump on the ball? Sure. Purposely doing that stuff throughout a career? Come on. No one’s THAT good.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. ---Crash Davis
by carmen_fanzone on May 20, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Love Affair
I’ll never get this, half of my fellow Cubs fans probably could be diagnosed with Schizophrenia. Before we sign Edmonds fans question having him on the team, he makes a catch in deep center and all of a sudden Edmonds is being celebrated as being this great addition to the team…after 2 games. I’m sorry, I think he has had it, he’s 38 years old, and I am very dissapointed that we got him. I hope he does make contributions for the sake of our team, but I will not be jumping on the Edmonds bandwagon. I do not see nor envision large offensive contributions from him, and I think within time we will be wishing we had Felix in CF.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hear, hear!
My sentiments exactly
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Aboard the Edmonds Bandwagon!!!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LMMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're a Cubs fan
And this surprises you?
by cocknfire on May 20, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah still does
I dunno, I guess I just expect a little more “wait and see” type of patience. So many fans are willing to write off solid players, and embrace long shots. Oh well.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds a little much
When the ball is in the air, Edmonds is going to decide how he can take a unique route and get there just in the nick of time. That would be an impressive talent by itself.
by rlpete on May 20, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consider the source though
Hunter could just be saying that because maybe he wanted to downplay Edmonds’ catches so that his great catches could look better. Hunter has had some unbelievable plays in CF also. For awhile there, the consensus for best CFs were Hunter, Edmonds and Andruw Jones so maybe he said that to give himself a pat on the back. Who knows.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
he just knows a lot more about playing centerfield in the majors than I do and he is damn good at it, so I consider him to be, at least, a credible source for an opinion on the ability of other people to play centerfield. Not saying that he is necessarily correct, but he has more experience than any of us, so his opinion should hold some water.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 20, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Felix
makes that catch. And he makes it look easy. No doubt in my mind. He’s positioned better, he’s faster, and he gets a better read on the ball.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
my worry
is that felix gets confused by that stupid hill out there and either pulls up short or hyper-extends his knee running up the hill…
edmonds over the shoulder with no fear of the hill? that was a sweet catch.
of course, since he’s satan, he had the added benefit of using his wings to help him get to the ball….
by billywan on May 20, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
the ball wasn’t hit far enough to be caught on the hill. Because Edmonds was running to catch it, after the catch, he ran up onto the hill. Pie would have camped under it in front of the hill, and not had to even be moving.
I’m glad Edmonds caught the ball. But it looks like an amazing catch because he reads it wrong, gets a bad jump, turns the wrong way, looks over the wrong shoulder, and then has NO CHOICE but to let it go, or make an over-the-shoulder-boulder-holder catch.
Looks nice, but way more work than necessary.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
manfred mann reference there?
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Win
Lilly had Berkman looking pretty bad and that was great to see. He didn’t have his best stuff but was still pretty effective. Good to see Aram and Dlee getting some clutch hits. Edmonds’ catch was damn impressive. I don’t buy the whole he makes it harder than it seems. Now, it wasn’t better than Johnson’s but it was still pretty damn impressive.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 8:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Soto's homer....
What is the big deal whether the home run was in or out of the park? It still counted as a 3-run homer. I don’t understand.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 20, 2008 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
the fact that they got it wrong is the big deal. The ump’s have been pretty bad this year, I don’t know if it’s just me. What if Soto would have been tagged out at home, or got injured running the bases, etc. It was unneccesary for him to run that out because it was pretty obvious they blew that call.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB, according to ESPN 1000
Has already come out and said the ball in question actually had a yellow mark on it, thus making the ump’s call the correct one. Take that FWIW, but MLB appears to be on the umpire’s side here.
I agree with ronsanto10, though; it counted as a homerun anyway, so complaining about it seems a bit greedy at this point.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I guess I don’t know the rule then. I thought it hit the yellow line too but also it hit the wall. I thought that if it hits the yellow line but still goes over, it’s a homerun. But you’re right, it counted as 3 regardless.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According the MLB Ground Rules for Minute Maid:
Batted ball in flight strikes yellow line on fence or top of railing in left center field and rebounds onto the playing field: In Play.
Link for the complete MInute Maid ground rules here.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The rule is misplaced here though...
because that rule applies best to the situation in which the yellow line is horizontal. In this case, if the ball hits the line and bounces back into play, it hasn’t left the field of play.
In this case, the line is vertical. So the ball grazed the line and hit a fair amount of wall. The wall is out of play. But because the out of play portion is a wall, the ball bounced back into the field of play.
I’m not saying your interpretation of the rule is wrong – just that the rule is poorly applied here.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just a bad situation
on the whole, created by that silly stadium design. I agree about the horizontal/vertical distinction, but the rule just says “left center,” without making any further distinctio, making the rule as poorly worded as that stadium is poorly conceived!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And how to solve the problem....require a paint-like substance to be applied to area's
that indicate a HR on the ball for configurations in stadiums that have these kind of walls.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on May 20, 2008 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A "paint-like substance"?
How about paint?
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah, too succinct.
It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa
by Emelie on May 20, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The better way to solve it...
is to not have the contrived “intricacy” that makes it difficult to determine. The ballpark is a joke – they’ve tried to create manufactured personality. If they had any sense when they built the stadium, we wouldn’t have this problem.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's the Disney Dome
It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa
by Emelie on May 20, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LSA
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cooper
Here is what got me…..What could Cecil Cooper possibly have been arguing/asking the umpires about after that play? “Listen guys, it is demoralizing for my guys to give up an inside the park home run, can you please change it to a normal home run?”
by gocubsgo22 on May 20, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps he was asking
whether or not Soto or one of the other baserunners had touched all the bases.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he ask the umpires that?
If he thought that, he should have just asked his players to appeal before the next pitch.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't imagine
what else he would have to say to the umpires as it was either an inside the park HR or a regular HR. I was just a guess.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably was just angry about the play...
and wanted to vent some fumes. There really wasn’t anything to complain about.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe West
Umpire Joe West had a terrible game last night. Besides the Soto HR he blew the 2B tag call. Glad that he wasn’t at the plate. He’s got a big ego and so if he does a turn calling the balls and strikes there could be some serious fireworks.
I want my Macias!
by wombat on May 20, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And West has been a long-time Cub hater.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean
“Country Joe” West
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, that's just scary.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe West could have made that catch in center
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 20, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Cowboy" Joe West
Right ,it does seem he has something against the Cubs.
This from Wikipedia:
July 23, 1991: After Cincinnati pitcher Rob Dibble threw a ball at Cub Doug Dascenzo and was thrown out of the game, West was bumped by Cubs Andre Dawson in the same game; Dawson was suspended for one game and fined $1000. On the check he wrote to the league, Dawson wrote in the memo “donation to the blind.”
Haha…gotta love The Hawk’s sense of humor.
"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP
by Bump Bailey on May 20, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have nothing substantial to add here
other than that I think that’s awesome.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He forgot to write "deaf, dumb, and" before "blind."
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the game that...
... Dawson threw all the bats out of the dugout onto the field. I never saw him so angry, not even when he got hit in the head by Eric Show.
It was great theater. The Cubs won the game 8-5.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was pretty funny.
the only time I saw him that mad was when he was headed to the mound to have a little chat with Eric Show.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question I had
was why the Astros skipper came out to argue the call? What was his basis? Arguing it was one type of homerun or another?
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably just venting frustration.
There’s really nothing to argue. But managers do, from time to time, come out to argue even when they know the call was correct. Perhaps it was a way to vent his frustration for his team allowing a lead-footed catcher to get an inside the park HR.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right Fielder
I have seen the replay of this home run several times. Can anyone imagine what the right fielder was doing on this play?
by gocubsgo22 on May 20, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The deal
The deal is, what happens when he blows a hamstring running out what should have been an obvious trot around the bases home run?
by Kornchex on May 20, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not make what was a pretty cool thing into
something awful on the strength of wild hypotheticals. Moreover, according to the ground rules for Minute Maid Park, to which I posted a link, it was the correct call.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Hustle By Soto
Soto was not his own umpire. He made the question of whether it was out of the park or in the park moot by hustling around those bases. He didn’t stand at home plate admiring his blast posing for the cameras.
"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray
by memphiscub on May 20, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point..
Imagine if that was “Manny”. He’d probably be lucky to make it to second…
"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP
by Bump Bailey on May 20, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yellow lines
Silliest thing ever. HRs should be indicated by balls actually leaving the park. Being on or next to or above some magical line just invites umpire error and general confusion. Still, watching Soto’s chubby little legs motoring around the bases was the highlight of my day!
by bintie on May 20, 2008 8:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OT
The General Ticket Exchange thread is closed to new posts. I am looking for 2 tickets anywhere at Wrigley for Aug. 9 Cubs/Cards.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll reopen the comments.
If this happens again, email me. (Same for ANY ticket post where comments get closed.)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edmunds, Ascanio, Soriano and winning ways
First winning ways: Cubs have a boatload of over .400 OBP hitters, including Soto who is leading the club by .001 over Fukudome. In short the club has added or replaced two positions that were not producing offensively last year (catcher & RF) with two offensive leaders. Others above .400 include the three middle infielders; Theriot, DeRosa & Cedeno and don’t forget Ramirez. What this indicates is an increased RUNS SCORED a resulting statistic.
Soriano; I think Piniella is going to see how Edmunds does in the lineup and sees how pitchers react to his presence and production (or lack of) and then that will have an effect on where he eventually moves Fukudome and probably Soriano. Fukudome has led the Cubs in OBP since the start of the year, Theriot (DeRosa and Cedeno have been right there as well), while Soriano has suddenly begun to hit with men on base. The question regarding this hitting with men on base is whether it is an unrelated consequence or not?
My thinking is to eventually move Fukudome to lead off, bat Theriot (or Cedeno) 2nd, Soriano 3rd, then DLee, Ramirez, Soto, Edmunds and DeRosa. Soto could end up being a Johnny Bench-Yogi Berra type of catcher but right now he also leads the club in K’s so the 6th spot is very good for him.
Ascanio, he could be the next coming of a Marmol type of middle reliever and actually begin to relieve some of Carlo’s workload. To me the writing is beginning for the trading of Wuertz as Cotts is also blossoming in AAA. If Ascanio sticks and is as effective as he was this spring it could make things very interesting. Cotts if he can continue to be effective than that could make Wuertz expendable as the Cubs then could have two LHP’s in the pen and balance the club.
Edmunds; I am not sure that Edmunds plays shallow to make a show boating catch, it is that he can make those over the shoulder catches and so he can play shallower. I am going to use an old golf adage: It is not how you got to the hole, it is how many did it take? When I used to compete people who were weekend amateurs used to ask me “how I hit them?” I would answer, “that is never the question, the question is how many times did I?”
Results matter, as in drive for show, putt for dough….meaning….who cares, Edmunds caught a critical 3rd out on a 400 foot drive to the hill, end of inning, end of rally, Cubs won 7-2.
Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."
by Ivy Walls on May 20, 2008 9:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You've picked up on a very important point
One of the big differences so far between 07 and 08 is the massive upgrade we have at C in Soto. Cliff Floyd’s 07 is a little underrated, I think, but Fukudome plays everyday and plays great defense, so that is a clear upgrade as well.
The other thing I think we are being slow to recognize is that if Soto keeps hitting at this pace, this team’s window of contention just got a lot wider.
by DGU on May 20, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't Like Fukudome at leadoff
Well, I should say that I don’t like Theriot hitting second. He doesn’t see enough pitches, whereas if he led off, Fukudome sees more than enough to give Ryan a chance to steal. If Edmonds becomes capable of hitting for power again, I think that this lineups is a possibility against RHP.
1. Theriot / Cedeño
2. Fukudome
3. Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Edmonds
6. Soriano
7. Soto
8. DeRosa
Theriot / Cedeño could also be 8, Soriano stays at 1, and Soto and DeRosa each move up a slot. I’m very surprised with Soriano’s #’s with RISP so far. If he can continue to produce in that role, he should be hitting 6th, especially since it appears he can barely run.
by WittyUserName on May 20, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous
I’ve had the (mis)fortune to see a few games in Houston and I find that ballpark to be ridiculous for several reasons. Obviously the hill and flagpole in center are absurd - MLB should tell them to take them out before a player gets a serious knee or ankle injury. The Crawford boxes are just unnatural as they stick out into left field making what would be an ordinary fence only 315 (shortest in the NL). The upper deck sightlines are awful - you’ll get a great view of the back of someone’s head rather than the field. I could go on, but enough said … The engineers in 1914 did a much better job …
Ya gotta love a team with a shortstop named TheRiot ...
by StampMe on May 20, 2008 9:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%...
that hill was a ridiculous thing to implement. Just invites knee and ankle injuries, so what’s the point?
You ARE freaking out MAN!
by crw89 on May 20, 2008 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the newer parks
want to take a bit from the past, the parks that were torn down to make room for those atrocious multi-use stadiums built in the 60’s and 70’s. In Houston, the hill is apparently in honor of the rise in the outfield to the fence in old Crosley Field in Cincy…..
by crazymountain on May 20, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, there is precedent...
But the difference is that those parks were built that way for a reason. Wrigley and Fenway were built to fit into the neighborhood block. They didn’t have great field management back in the old days, which accounts for the hill.
Today, there’s no need for it. I’m okay with the throwback parks, but only in so much as the throwback aspects don’t interfere with the game. Camden Yards is fantastic. The park in San Francisco is great. Those places did it right. Houston did not.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correct.
Houston did it just to be quirky, with no rhyme or reason. Parks like the new ones in SF and Pittsburgh blended in with their location, and now look like they’ve been there forever.
Houston’s park just sits there like a lump. It’s completely forgettable.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I was in Houston for a Cubs series sweep in 2004. The ballpark has a fair number of seats with bad/obstructed views (right field bleachers, for example). And its design is far too contrived.
Then again, Houston in general is a dump, IMHO.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 20, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Things to do for a buck
Hey they want to fill the seats, you heard Cooper—More Cubs fans than Astros fans. They need all the help they can get Choo Choo Train and Hill combined.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One positive
The restaurant inside the ballpark is pretty good. What does it tell you when that’s the best thing you can say about it?
Anyway, I have no desire to return to Houston for any reason, unless it’s the playoffs, I guess.
by Not Bruce Froemming on May 20, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other side of the coin
No reason to be quiet….no reason to rationalize wins by saying it’s early. This is a good Cubs team, a very good Cubs team. We have waited far too long for a team like this and we absolutely, positively deserve the chance to enjoy the start to this season.
While finding the proper level of excitement and expectations to go on, I will not run and hide from what is happening with this team. We’ve waited too long, I can’t do it. Enjoy it, cherish it, commit it to memory. This team has a swagger and expects to win games. So should we.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.
by krummy12 on May 20, 2008 9:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Excitment
I think people are just protecting themselves from emotional pain, especially those older fans that have seen some tough endings, but yes this is a good team.
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on May 20, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
I understand that logic but following them on Day 1, win or lose, opens yourself up to that “emotional pain” as well. We all know that pain, otherwise we wouldn’t be here checking in on what is going on around the club and with its fan base. It’s part of the drill and Cubs fans more than any know what they are getting themselves into.
What I’m trying to add is that the combination of Piniella, the players, Hendry and the entire organization has instituted a winning culture around this club. It’s fan base should do the same and therefore, there are no curses, there are no magic mirrors, there are absolutely no reasons to be cautious or less than optimistic with this club. They are simply good enough to get around all of that nonsense.
Eighty-five percent of the f*ckin' world is working. The other fifteen percent come out here. -- Lee Constantine Elia, 1983.
by krummy12 on May 20, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're right.
I AM enjoying all of this, so far. It’s been a wonderful two months. I’m an optimist by nature… but that’s tempered by the memory of all the previous failures.
If this is the beginning of the title we’ve all waited for, believe me, I will savor every moment.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN....
To those of you complaining about ESPN loving the Red Sox, let me throw in my 2 cents. Most importantly, a no-hitter was being pitched which is always an exciting ane rare event. If a Tampa Bay pitcher was pitching a no-no, I am 99.99% sure ESPN would have switched coverage as well. Secondly, the Red Sox are the defending World Champions and have won twice in the last 4 years. How many WS have the Cubs won in that time frame? FInally, living in Boston, I can honestly say that Red Sox fans LOVE their team. OK, they may be entirely obnoxious, but nobody supports their team more Red Sox fans. For example, I was at a game at Fenway last year and some 8-year-old kid was rattling every statistic imaginable as each player came to bat. I was at a game at Wrigley a few weeks later and a group of 30-something guys and girls next to me didn’t even know who the Cubs were playing-unbelievable! They were even waiting for Sammy Sosa to come to bat!
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 20, 2008 9:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ESPN did switch coverage to Gavin Floyd's near no-no
a couple weeks ago, so they’re definitely equal-opportunity in this regard.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not in media -
But if i am not mistaken doesnt a media buyer for ESPN have to contact the local station and pay for the view-in? Could some teams refuse?
"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"
by HIGGY on May 20, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had to laugh...
Too many things on my to-do list, so I stayed away from game thread and computer as much as possible last night. But I did sneak a peak at the play-by-play listing on espn.com and had to laugh when I saw “G Soto inside-the-park home run to deep left, A Ramirez and K Fukudome scored.” I couldn’t decide which part was harder to believe – Soto hitting an ITPHR, or Minute Maid having a ‘deep left’. Espn.com has since changed it to ‘deep center’.
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 20, 2008 9:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Dome and Kaz are fellow alumni
I’d watch some part of the game live on my satellite channel and it was good game for you folks. As I wrote, only the downfall part was that I missed Dome’s second basehit as ESPN went over to Boston for Lester’s no-hitter. It was great accomplishment as well.
Dome and Kaz Matsui went same high school, PL Gakuen (PL for Perfect Liberty) – Kaz is elder by 2 years and they played in the same team for a year.
Dome was an infielder and Kaz was a pitcher, and they both played in Koshien tournament (but in different year). Here is some YouTube footage for Kaz and Dome in the tournament.
Dome played for Central League (Dragons) and Kaz played for Pacific League (Lions), and those 2 teams met at 2004 Japan Series. However Kaz already was a Met in that year and Dome was missing the series by fractured left index finger by HBP. Interleague games in Japan started only since 2005, then Monday game was the first game they played together since their high school days.
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on May 20, 2008 9:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
correction
Dome and Kaz played together at 2003 Japan team for Asia preliminary for Athens Olympic games, managed by Shigeo Nagashima. They won all 3 games against Korea, China and Taiwan and got berth for Athens. Dome hit critical RBI double against arch rival Korea. You can see his stance at bat is bit different with current style.
So it was only 4.5 years since then….
I'm bleeding Dragons Blue.
by dragonsfanatic on May 20, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Most of us knew that Matsui went to high school with ‘Dome—it was much discussed around here when the Cubs were trying to sign Kaz. Most of us felt that the Cubs were only interested in Matsui to try to make Chicago more appealing to Fukudome.
But the rest of the stuff is mostly new around here. And keep keeping us informed! Thanks!
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on May 20, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd just like to say....
that i had the same epiphany last night, i was sitting there, watching the game and i said out loud “wow, this team is actually really good”, and it made me happy. I also have no idea how i did it, but i correctly predicted both HR’s when soto and a-ram came to the plate, and they were the only predictions i made, i swear, i have witnesses.
by dogcatratcheese on May 20, 2008 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Why was Chad Fox ever brought up in the first place?
Was Oscar Zamora unavailable???
by perseman on May 20, 2008 10:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess Felix Heredia wasn't ready...
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor Antonio Alfonseca.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the pitch is so fat that the ball hits the bat
That’s Zamora
by Shanghai Badger on May 20, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which reminds me of another crappy Cub reliever
Amaury Telemaco!!!!!!!!!!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great Name, shitty arm.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 20, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When the ball's hit so high, reaches Waveland on a fly
That’s Amaury
by Shanghai Badger on May 20, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TELEMACO!
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Say, has anyone heard from Ray Fonetnot?
He could pitch while his grandson Mike plays second!
by Shanghai Badger on May 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie is batting .000 after 16 ABs at Iowa. Did the Cubs kill his spirit?
Or is he just in a bad slump? Or could he never hit? There’s even a guy named Jason Dubois who is hitting .250, and Big Red Murton is hitting .368 with close to a hundred ABs.
by zevkalman on May 20, 2008 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I think we must have got rid of him at the right time if that is true.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Surely you jest….
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
16 AB = small sample...
you can find an 0-16 stretch for any hitter in the major leagues. It’s hard to know the reason for it. There are many possibilities:
1. It is simply a function of a small sample size.
2. Pie is frustrated/depressed about being sent down.
3. Pie has faced more LHP (don’t know if this is true or not – just a possibility).
4. Pie is working to make adjustments, and adjustments take time to implement.
I’ll give it a bit more time. Hopefully it’s #4, and he’ll make the necessary adjustments to become a productive MLB hitter.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's likely #4
and I hope it’s not to the detriment of Pie as a hitter.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
# 5
5. Maybe he simply isn’t the quality hitter everyone seems to think he is.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ridiculous
Okay, now you are being ridiculous. Did I compare myself to Felix Pie in any way at all or even hint that I am a better baseball player than him? I simply said that people maybe over-estimated his ability as a hitter. Don’t get out of bounds here.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let him
prove it, then.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
#5 is almost certainly not correct...
as he has two seasons of productivity at the AAA level already under his belt. Thus, we know that he’s better than the 0-16 would suggest.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they may have killed his spirit.
But he needs to get over it and move on with trying to get better at hitting. Last night Edmonds catch which I will admit was great and I loved to see, would have been a routine catch for Pie. He could be a great player and starting the season in the starting lineup and then losing your job to Jim Edmonds who is 38 and was hitting horrible numbers before we got him would kill my spirits I think. But as long as Jimmy is here he needs to keep making those catches and you won’t hear any guff from me
by huskercubby on May 20, 2008 10:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
on Edmonds
sure Pie probably would have made that catch (unless his inexperience with the hill would have scared him off, which i doubt). but regardless of why Edmonds plays so shallow, the ability to play that shallow and still make deep catches is HUGE for the Cubs defensively. playing shallow allows him to take away some short base hits and also to hold runners to fewer bases but cutting off balls quicker.
if Pie is so fast (yes, i know that he is) and able to catch balls over his head as well as Edmonds (not sure about this one), then he should play as shallow for the above-mentioned benefits.
Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 4-1 (.800), DRS: 1
by joeschmitt on May 20, 2008 10:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
One Catch
When we continue to see defensive contributions from E, good deal. But it doesn’t change the fact that it is unlikely we will see his bat come around, and if thats the case why spend the measly 300k on him, when we could be helping our TOP PROSPECT come around?
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i would also rather have Pie
but we don’t. we have Edmonds.
Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 4-1 (.800), DRS: 1
by joeschmitt on May 20, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Must be nice
I wish I had a measly 300K…
Lets do it Cubbies
by slocs55 on May 20, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Houston and "The Hill"
Question: Has anyone ever been injured because of that hill? I keep reading all these complaints about it and, while I also think it’s quite ‘strange’ to have out there, I can’t remember any player ever actually suffering an injury because of it. Has it ever happened?
Also… sorry, but Pie (currently) sucks, so go Edmonds. :)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I can think of someone else who sucks
And all of us on this blog compared to Pie throw like little girls. Me above all else!
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I throw like a slightly overweight high-school girl softball player...
just sayin’
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I throw like my mind and my arm disagree
on where the ball should go. Just saying 2.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Minute Maid Park......
When the Cubs build a new stadium, I certainly hope that they follow the standard set by Camden Yards in Baltimore. Definitely, no hill in center field, but a retractable roof and state-of-the-art scoreboard are on my wish list.
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 20, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
never.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which new stadium are you refering to?
The one at Clark&Addison after Wrigley is blown up or the Camden Yards/Petco clone out in the ‘burbs? :D
by JFCubFan on May 20, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto's HR
Another fine example of the good things that can happen when a players runs hard out of the box instead of admiring his handiwork. I can think of one player who may or may not have even made it to second if he’d hit that ball.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on May 20, 2008 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jim Edmonds?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can think of
a whole hell of a lot more than one. Which makes me like Soto even more.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto's hustle...
...has impressed me all year, and so have his focus and intelligence. So far, he’s having the best all-around season of any Cubs catcher I can remember.
by Mike Vails Evil Twin on May 20, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitching inside to CLee
Both Lilly and Marmol threw up and in to Carlos Lee last night. From a Cub fan’s standpoint, I see nothing wrong with backing an opposing slugger off the plate. But since it happened twice to the same guy, does anyone else think Houston may try to “send a message” early in tonight’s game, and maybe return the favor when Soriano, Lee or Ramirez are at bat?
by davenportblue on May 20, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt we see retaliation.
Those were good clean pitches by Ted. Plus, it seems that the book around the league thus far is to stay away from the Cub boppers, not come in on them. They bust Cedeno, Dome, and Derosa inside, but most pitchers have been try to stay away on Lee, Rammy, and Sori
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good catch...
...and I do think someone may indeed get plunked tonight.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overuse of Marmol
I’ve been really critical of Lou and his overuse of Marmol, but last night was the right time to use him, which i don’t think anyone would argue
What I will argue is why was Wuertz brought in to start the 8th? Why not Eyre when you have Bourn (LH), followed by Matsui (SH, who bats better from the LH side). Why start with Wuertz? Why not bring him in for Tejada, Berkman, Lee and give yourself a better chance of retiring the leadoff guys
I love Wuertz but he’s struggled mightily throughout his career against LH hitting, because his Slider (basically his only pitch) is ineffective
Marmol should’ve been used last night given what happened, but it likely could’ve been avoided by a better handling of the bullpen earlier
I’d also like to see Lou get back to throwing Eyre and Howry into these “Hold” situations when we have a 3 run lead to try to get back in the habit of them pitching at these times. It looks like he’s tried to do it over the last week, but has trouble reaching away from his security blanket
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 20, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Marmol for President
I agree on the overuse of Marmol, and also agree that last night’s use was the perfect illustration of why this kid is so valuable to our team. Even when they brought him in I was expecting that at least 1 run would score, but Marmol never ceases to amaze. Argue all you want about the value of offense, but right now I would have to vote for Marmol for team MVP.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully the Cubs get some blowouts the next two days
That way Marmol would be off Tues, Wed and Thurs.
FWIW—Wuertz has held lefties to a 230/335/388 compared to righties 224/301/358. Not that large of a difference.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i should've looked at the numbers before
you’re right its a more muted difference and my “eyes/memories” were leading me when i made the reference.
On an adjusted OPS level its 93 vs RH, 112 vs LH. So it’s worth noting, but not as big of an issue as I had made it out
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 20, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still
think Eyre should’ve started the inning though, since he’s held LH’s to an OPS+ of 85 throughout his career
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 20, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I tend to believe my eyes over stats as well.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i usually don't
i almost always check the numbers before i post something because i trust the numbers FAR more than I do my eyes
but made the mistake this time and sure enough, my eyes were wrong
by DartmouthCubsFan on May 20, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers don't lie...
the eye often does.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers can lie
Think Matt Cain and his win total last season. If you were an outsider and saw his W/L you would think he is a bad pictcher.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And most people who trust stats
will tell you than W/L record is a worthless stat when it comes to analyzing pitchers anyway. This is likely an area where the two camps see exactly eye-to-eye.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I dont trust the WL either, I just think it is not safe to say that numbers dont lie. What if a player hit 25 straight rocket line drives right at the third baseman. IMO, the eyes tell me more about the hitter than his OFER.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another bad example...
25 AB is too small a sample to make judgements on hitters. If that scenario occurred, you’d expect the law of averages to play out and his batting stats to improve.
Again, the numbers didn’t lie – it’s just a failure of interpretation.
The eyes deceive you much more frequently than the numbers.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sample size or not
Lee could have great day at the plate and go 0-5. The numbers indicate a poor day at the plate although it is possible for him to hit the ball well and to move a runner over etc.
The numbers say BAD EYE
My eyes tell me GREAT DAY/TOUGH LUCK.
Gotta go do some work, afterall it is lunch time
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're trying to read too much into the numbers...
The numbers aren’t lying. All they’re telling you is the result. They don’t tell you the how. You could look at the BABIP and the LD% and see that Lee was unlucky in that hypothetical situation.
Once again, the numbers didn’t lie. It’s all a matter of correctly interpreting what they say. Just like using the W/L to measure pitchers, using basic batting stats on such a small sample is a misuse of the numbers.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, BABIP and LD% can tell you these sorts of things
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, numbers don't lie...
you just have to know how to interpret them.
In your example, for instance, anyone who understands statistics knows that W/L is a pretty poor way to measure a pitcher’s ability. In that case, the numbers didn’t lie – you just tried to read more into them than was there.
The poor W/L record indicates that Giants were not a successful TEAM when Cain pitched. It says nothing about whether they were unsuccessful because Cain wasn’t good or whether they were unsuccessful because they couldn’t hit. If you want to know how good a pitcher is, don’t look at the W/L record. Look at this like WHIP, K/9, K/BB, HR rate, etc.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nationals New Park
That scoreboard (INSANELY huge and in HI-DEF) at the new Nat’s park is nothing shy of INCREDIBLE. God I hate Wrigley while loving the Cubs. Go figure… lol
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree....
We need to get into the 21st century. Hi-def, retractable roof, SOA training facilities, AND CLEAN BATHROOMS!
"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse
by ronsanto10 on May 20, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ill take
new bathrooms, new concourse leave the bleachers/outfield wall/scoreboard. I dont need to see the replay of every play and I dont need to hear loud music and I dont to see highlights inbetween innings.
Signed-—-Wrigleyville renter who prefers not to hear this loud music in his apartment.
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just think about it, Hammer,
In addition to the drunks puking on your porch, you could have Sony VAIO technology beaming right into your bedroom! ;-)
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
We don’t need to be told by the scoreboard when to cheer…
"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP
by Bump Bailey on May 20, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
EXACTLY. I severely dislike manufactured fan excitement. The Cubs fans know when it is time to cheer.
"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome
by gwood on May 20, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something Special
I think we should be proud that our park is so well regarded, even though it is ancient. Most people you ask, would rather go to Wrigley field to watch a game than any other park in the country (Even including Fenway). And thats without all the amenities and distractions that have been mentioned at these so-called SOA parks. GOOD IS GOOD.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather sit in an empty Wrigley Field and listen to an away game on my pocket radio
than go on a road trip and watch the Cubs play in most of the NL parks. (exceptions: SF, Col, and Pgh)
Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."
by ballhawk on May 20, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Seat in the House
I think maybe you should stay home and watch your HI DEF from your living room. Retractable roof…don’t make me vomit. Everything comes full circle…instead of cookie cutter arena type parks now we are making “nostalgic” family parks. The Cubs need no such gimmicks. And why would you need to take a bath at a baseball park?
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrigley
I’d like SOME SORT of REAL scoreboard, and REAL bathrooms (not that the stainless steel BUCKETS to go in aren’t great, but… um… don’t make ME vomit). Hell I’d settle for Wrigley moving into the 20TH century – I guess the 21ST is way too much to ask. Don’t need a roof though, I totally agree there. This isn’t Seattle.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tradition
Sorry pal, no dice, the Scoreboard is a Wrigley Field Tradition. Loved by true fans of the game of baseball for its seeming simplicity, while providing information for all levels of fans. All while being manually operated. What would you rather have Fireworks and Spinners?
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with him/her on the seats and the bathoroms though...
Some aspects of tradition could be sent to pasture, as far as I’m concerned.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus it's a protected monument.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we have a real scoreboard.
What we don’t have is a giant TV over the bleachers.
And it will stay that way.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
I needs my entertainment at a baseball game. It’s not like, you know, the game is the entertainment.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LSA
we have TVs encroaching on every area of our lives - even during the simple act of walking down the street. I can’t stand those huge - yooge—screens in what seems nearly every public square and space. The hell with media and its mediation (sorry, Al). Give our eyes a break.
It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa
by Emelie on May 20, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP
by Bump Bailey on May 20, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
I feel like the troughs are probably more efficient as far as moving people along – I dunno how many other ballparks I’ve been to where the line in the men’s room is 10 – 15 minutes long because everyone is queueing up for individual urinals/stalls. While the troughs at Wrigley may make people a little squeamish, they certainly are efficient.
by false cognate on May 20, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
And again, its not a requirement that every time one attends a baseball game they need to sample the parks restroom facilities. You actually can stay seated for 2.5 to 3 hours without going to the restroom.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, maybe YOU can.
Us old guys, we have to get up and go every now and then.
:)
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Overuse of Marmol
I agree, and Howry looked GREAT last night, so hopefully he can go back into filling that role… and SOON.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 11:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pie
“because Pie would have been playing deeper to begin with and because Pie is faster than Edmonds”
I have to take issue here. The great center fielders play shallow, NOT deep, because they take away more singles that way and can still get back on the long balls. Just think of Willie Mays. If Pie plays deeper this is, I believe, a point AGAINST, not for, him. Edmonds might have to make a highlight-reel catch there as opposed to Pie making the play routinely, but Edmonds will then get to the bloop single that Pie won’t get to.
I’m not saying that Jimmy is faster than Felix, just that the nature of the catch shouldn’t be held against him.
by alwaysacub on May 20, 2008 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No one is holding it against him...
your quoted text and whether or not Edmonds is a good defensive CF are not mutually exclusive points. The quote refers to whether or not Pie makes the catch on that play. It has nothing to do with devaluing Edmonds. It is simply in reference to the odds of making that catch. If it were a shallow ball and Edmonds had made a diving catch in front of him, you could easily (and probably correctly) argue that Pie wouldn’t have been able to get there.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah sure thing
With those craptastic ankles, ready to snap at the drop of a feather.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pie = Corey Patterson
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ENTER CAN OF WORMS PICTURE
You are wrong. Pie had success at every level except the top level. Corey didnt ever have great success in the minors.
The two are seperate aside from the fact they were highly touted prospects
"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip
by Hammer on May 20, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed...
there’s very little similarity between the two. They’re fast, they were top prospects, they both struggled early at the MLB level.
Beyond that, the differences are plentiful. Pie dominated every level of the minors. Patterson didn’t. Pie is considered very personable and coachable. Patterson was a bit of a shy loner and was stubborn.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
“ENTER CAN OF WORMS PICTURE “
Funny! Interesting replies as well.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LSA
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...do you really believe this or are you just posting it to get a reaction?
Because if it’s the latter, you have just exceeded your LAMENESS quota for the day and should log off immediately.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I actually felt, or feel...
... they were/are similar. Not trying to rabble rouse…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Care to elaborate?
Bear in mind, however, that I would advise against it (elaborating, that is), because many, many others have tried arguing this point and have gotten nowhere…fast.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I believe you are greatly mistaken then...
Very different career paths. Similar results (so far) but very different career paths.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Getting Greg Maddux back
Interesting read from Ken Rosenthal, “The most intriguing possibility, though, is Maddux, who holds the right to veto any deal. Maddux prefers the West Coast, but he might consider rejoining the Cubs or Braves — or uniting with his older brother Mike, the pitching coach for the Milwaukee Brewers.” The entire story is http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8156482/Major-changes-in-store-for-Padres?
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Do we really want Maddux back again???
I don’t mean Greg isn’t GOD, because I think he IS, but what really does he have LEFT? And his record in the playoffs is NOT good, so…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Greg Maddux, but
I don’t think it would be good for him or the Cubs for him to be pitching in Wrigley. Take a look at his number away from the cavern known as Petco Park. They aren’t pretty.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope he doesn't go the Brewers.
It’s not that I think he could help them all that much. I would just hate to see him in a Brewers uniform.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Padres / Brewers
Squint and its pretty much the same.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, let's hope they're equally bad this season...
...but at least the Padres aren’t in the Cubs’ division.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No chance in the West
Without Peavy, but still rather not deal with them.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Towers has already started putting up flyers advertising the yard sale.
This is not what you say if you aren’t having a fire sale:
"We’re bad, no question about it," Towers said. "There comes a point in time we can’t say, ‘It’s early.’ There’s nothing to lead me to believe – or the fans to believe – we’re going to turn this thing around."He promised changes. "Wholesale," he said. And he waved his hands at the clubhouse, meaning most of the players in it, he had little use for right now.
"I’m certainly not going to watch this for another four months," he said.
That said, I don’t think there’s that much left to Greg Maddux. He’d join our endless parade of mediocre fifth starter options.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Odd to hear a GM be that candid. Time to crank up the Khalil Greene machine?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't you heard?
We have a shortstop the leads the league in empty batting average. Why would we want one that fields well and hits for power?
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot.
I will now head to the scrappy shed for my fire and passion grinder beatdown.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does "empty batting average" mean?
Calm down.
by Kinky Reggae on May 20, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's exceedingly difficult to have a below-average slugging...
...when you’re batting .333.
Ryan Theriot is proving that it’s not impossible, however. (It’s 8 points above league average if you forget to park adjust – Wrigley is a good park to hit doubles and homers at.)
Theriot is seventh in the league in batting average among qualified starters, yet tied for 40th in OPS. And, again, doing it in a hitter’s park. His lack of power production means that his batting average overrates his production.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't overrate his production...
he’s producing exactly what his numbers say he’s producing. Now, if you want to say his batting average is unsustainable, that’s fine (I’m definitely inclined to agree with you there). But that’s a different debate.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's a reason batting average has started to...
...fall out of favor, even outside of the sabermagic community. Theriot’s batting average overstates his value relative to the league because it assumes that all hits are equal – a walk is equal to a double is equal to a home run.
Now, you’re right if you say that his park adjusted Batting Runs capture his offensive production to date, and that the argument is over sustainability of that performance. But having Ryan Theriot bat .330 does not make him more valuable than Mark DeRosa offensively, even though DeRosa is “only” hitting .306.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You crazy sabermagicians...
...with your tall, pointy hats and your long, white beards and your colorful, flowing robes. (And your Excel spreadsheets.)
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said Theriot was more valuable than DeRosa?
DeRosa has a virtually identical OBP and a higher SLG. Thus, he’s more valuable offensively. That’s pretty simple.
Theriot has a .410 OBP to this point and an .828 OPS. Thus, to this point, he’s been pretty productive so far (certainly above average). Now, you could argue that he’s likely to fall off of that production at some point soon. But to this point, he’s been exactly as productive as his stats suggest.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The arguement wasn't that Theriot's OBP or OPS overrated him.
It’s that his batting average overrated him. He’s been exactly as productive as SOME stats suggest. But batting average isn’t one of them. Hence the remark “empty batting average.” And thus, people who use batting average to rate players – and they do still exist, and I still do end up talking with them over the Internet – wouldn’t put Theriot’s performance into the proper context.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But as related to the type of player he is...(not a power hitter)
he is doing better than could be expected. If his OBP stays anywhere near where it is now .410…then he can bat 2nd in the lineup everyday and twice on Sunday.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of an upgrade do you think Greene would be
on the new, non-hacktastic Cedeno?
by DGU on May 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why?
.212, three home runs, .265 on-base percentage
That isn’t the kind of performance you give up Theriot for. And he’s quit diving for grounders, too.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Theriot has 189 PAs so far this season, Greene 186.
If you honestly think that fewer than 200 PAs suddenly makes Theriot a better hitter than Greene, when the entirety of the rest of their careers suggests strongly to the contrary, well… then you’re pobably a Cubs fan.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no,
but it makes Theriot a better hitter than Greene NOW.
And if we’re going to sit Riot, let’s do it for Cedeno, not Greene.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it means Theriot has been a better hitter than Greene up til now.
We do really need to have a serious discussion at some point about whether or not Theriot’s performance is sustainable.
by DGU on May 20, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could discuss it after the season is over...
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that
what I said? “til now” vs “now”, I dunno how much difference that is. :D
Theriot’s performance is sustainable until he can’t sustain it any longer. We’re not going to be able to make reasonable predictions, other than that it will, at some point, drop—just like Soriano wasn’t able to maintain two home-runs a game as of yesterday.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad
What I was trying to suggest is that neither Theriot’s nor Greene’s 2008 stats tell us much about who would be best if we had to choose between starting one or the other “now” as in “tonight.”
by DGU on May 20, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, that's fair enough.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you don't like Theriot and all
and I understand your point. But is Khalil Greene that big of an upgrade? The guy has had an OBP over .300 only twice in his career—and a lifetime OBP of .308.
Theriot’s lifetime OBP is .355. I know about Theriot’s minor league stats, but they’re not terrible and don’t forget, the Cubs had him mucking around with switch-hitting for much of that time.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on May 20, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not really my arguement.
We can go back and forth about MLEs and switch hitting and park factors until we’re blue in the face, and not get any further than we have the past 30 times this conversation has been hashed out.
But the major difference is that Khalil Greene is a shortstop, and Theriot is a second baseman playing out of position. And it’s becoming more and more painfully apparant.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much of a defensive upgrade, in terms of runs,
would you figure Greene to be over Theriot at SS?
over Cedeno at SS?
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're making a defense argument
Which is fine.
But if you look at Baseball Prospectus’ fielding metrics, Khalil Greene isn’t a very good shortstop either. In fact, Theriot’s lifetime Rate stat is 104 and Greene’s in 101.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on May 20, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not too excited about Greene...
I’d LOVE to see Cedeno get a longer look, though.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I would go with 1Dec over Greene as well.
And the Cubs wouldn’t have to give up any players that way.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Prospectus makes very, very bad fielding metrics.
Rate is essentially a positionally adjusted Range Factor. They’re just as mediocre as defensive win shares or Palmer’s Fielding Runs. For historical comparisons they’re about all we have, but I wouldn’t use them for serious analysis of players past 1956, give or take a few seasons.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Heath Bell
Never can have too much depth
by Shanghai Badger on May 20, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rather have Cla Meredith.
Bell’s home/road splits are not good.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were in 2007
But yeah, 2006 and 2008 – not so much
by Shanghai Badger on May 20, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lovely little quote here:
The No. 5 hitters? Batting .199. With, uh, 14 RBI. A good portion of that, still, lies with Edmonds[...]
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Matt Vasgersian
head almost exploded on the air because the Chicago papers just last week suggested that the Padres might be dealing off players—insisting that the Padres weren’t out of it yet and that it was arrogant to covet Padre ballplayers.
Another reason to hate the Padres.
It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.
by Josh77 on May 20, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've noticed that the amount of hatred towards the Padres is pretty much 1:1...
...with proximity. Those of us in the Midwest mostly don’t care about them at all.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comparing a Trade, Ohman
for Ascanio
OhMan! Has a WHIP of 1.44, era of 2.50 17 hits in 16 innings
Pretty decent, but not great. Bobby Cox has figured out he should be used purely as a LOOGY.
Ascanio, with a MiLB WHIP of 1.07, has only given up 1 HR in 19 innings. I like this. HE is a power guy, but had generally poor control in ST this year.
by The E-Man on May 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
WILL
Ohman?
Am I experiencing Deja Vu?
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only in that
we exchanged him for the 23 y.o. fireballer.
Oh-MAN! (Will)
by The E-Man on May 20, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heathcliff!
What a horrid pitcher.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least
Z, Lilly and Demp are all pitching well at the same time finally.
I’d LOVE to get a large lead going into mid-June…
Cubs cocktail: Add equal amounts of devotion and stubbornness over ice, stir and serve.
by Fukumania on May 20, 2008 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Did the Cubs leave Marquis off last year's playoff roster?
Trying to remember….
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Negative.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope...
technically, they did not. However, he was essentially off the roster, as he was never going to pitch.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Lou put him in the bullpen.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only additional comment I'd like to bring up about last night's game is a question.
To wit, has Miguel Tejada always been such a frickin’ loudmouth? I haven’t seen him play all that much, so maybe I’ve just missed it, but did anyone else notice that every time Tejada was running the bases last night he was yelling his ass off about something? Is this typical of his “game”? It was pretty annoying.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What the hell is he yelling about?
Seems kinda bush league to me…but that’s likely because he’s not wearing Cubby blue…
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bush
When he was with the O’s he would do that all the time, heard similar negative comments from Yankees fans about it being Bush. Supposedly, hes just trying to fire up his “guys”. Dumb.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda figured it was just his M.O., but thanks for confirming.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind him
on our team (Miggy) – but not for 5 years…
by The E-Man on May 20, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tejada...
Still yelling about that tainted B-12 shot he gave Raffy – the bastard…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Home Run Derby
Watch some of the HRDs from the past couple of years. He’s always running around yelling and stopping the action to bring someone a gatorade or give him some advice or something. He’s pretty annoying.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been to
the Dominican Republic and met many Dominicans and as a whole they are a very celebratory group. Very robust, happy, sometimes loud, but not rude, people. You see so little emotion in baseball, because that’s the way the game is, that a guy like Tejada does come across as annoying but we wouldnt say that if it were us playing the game. We’re also ok with the celebration and showboating in the NBA and NFL.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Fair
Not every player from a Latin country acts the same way. And celebratory has its place. And I’m pretty sure, based on some of the recent excitement over Joba Chamberlains outbursts on the mound, that many players (Including some of us if we were lucky to play) would feel it is annoying and maybe even a little disrespectful.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never said every player
I said Dominicans as a whole… meaning people in general and including players (before they were big MLB stars) are loud happy people. They invented Merengue! It’s very common in Latin America to find these kind of personalities and they’re bound to show up in sports.
In addition to what I previously said there are many players, of all nationalities (to steer away from ethnicity) that exhibit similar traits of exhuberant, cocky and arrogant celebration. I guess being latino myself it’s just a part of my culture and so it doesnt bother me one bit.
I also understand the culture of Baseball itself, just sharing some thoughts here.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
However
its not beyond such exhuberant personalities (Ethinicity aside) to learn aspects of the game which dictate a certain degree of decorum and respect. I don’t think that celebration should be outlawed, I do think it should be reserved for moments when it is warranted. And running around the bases doesn’t fit, IMO.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha
which IMO make it annoying but not necessarily disrespectful. We’re back where we started which is ok with me.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the wrench
Agreed, the worst part is somehow, the Marmol fist pump doesn’t bother me a bit, GO FIGURE? hahaha
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I would argue that a fist pump...
...following a big strikeout is a natural display of human emotion. Constantly shooting one’s mouth off every time one reaches base is something altogether different—and much more annoying.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm not really comfortable going into ethnicity.
I think it’s more a matter of personality. And I’m not sure referring to other sports really helps your cause much either—basketball and football are very different games with very different cultures.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that
and I’m definitely not a fan of the showboating in the NFL and NBA. I was going to also point out that he isn’t the only one who does that because I’ve seen Ortiz do it, and Miguel Cabrera do it also. I know the HRD is just for fun anyways but it still was pretty annoying. But I do understand your point.
"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly
by McRipper on May 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stole 3rd
Obviously trying to show up Soto.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 12:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and even after he hit the double...
...he was clapping and yelling “COME ON! COME ON!”
What was great, though, is when he popped out toward the end of the game. He was yelling then, too, but the words weren’t quite as encouraging.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes you wish
Bob Gibson were still pitching. There would be a lot less HR staring and yelling on the basepaths, IMO….
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drysdale would have put the next one in his ear.
"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris
by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 20, 2008 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pie is 0 for Iowa so far
0-16 to be exact. Looks like the demotion has affected him metally. Also, he’s trying to pull everything!! Not good at all.
by Itchy on May 20, 2008 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Miggy needs to be earholed more than Carlos did.
Maybe if he gets on first tonight and starts his theatrics—an “errant” pickoff throw can be plunked into his ribs.
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 20, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also think
that because Pie is 0 -16 we should plunk Tejada.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this intended to point out an erroneous use of the reply button?
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 20, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha yes
but now that I think about it, it’s a good enough reason for me.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, the official BCB scorer has given you an error on that play.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Durn--no gold glove for this showboat poster
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 20, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately,
this exact thing was just said on Mike Murphy’s show, so we’re going to be hearing the rest of the day….
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least you admit it.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked him up last night
then heard the rest on Murphy’s show. Is that a problem?
by Itchy on May 20, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's just going to get wearying to hear
“he’s pulling everything, see, he’s not learning!!!!!!!!” over and over again. And most of the people beating that drum won’t be as forthright as you were with where they got it. It’ll be as if that observation sprang from some vast, untapped well of baseball knowledge. Sorry if I was harsh.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What really bugs me is...
...”Looks like the demotion has affected him mentally.” It’s one hell of a trick to be able to read someone’s mind through 16 at-bats in the minors!
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
That’s frustrating. Wreckard pointed out earlier that he is working on new swing. Normally, those don’t come ready-to-use. There’s going to be a significant adjustment period, methinks, for young Felix.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is changing...
...his swing, and is going to go through some short term pain before he has confidence in it. It’s a psychological adjustment he has to make until his adjustments become second nature – just like when Tiger Woods didn’t win for over a year when he changed his swing.
I know, I know, people are going to say he could have worked on his swing by getting starts at the major league level, and to that, I disagree.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Psychonanlyizing of athletes
by fans, regardless of their having played baseball at any level, is just ridiculous. He’s working on a new swing. There are plenty of physiological factors that are going to make the transition difficult that we can discuss, that one’s past experience in playing the game would be very helpful in discussing, without engaging wild speculation about Pie’s mind-states.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree in general
though that may seem contradictory to what I wrote below.
I guess what I’m trying to say below is that while I don’t know if Pie’s been affected mentally, I wouldn’t blame him if he was.
by DGU on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can disagree....
...but IMO, it is not wild speculation by any means.
When you have 2 tenths of a second to decide whether you are going to swing at a pitch, going through a swing change will do you no favors in regards to your natural reaction, because your mind is typicall thinking too much about mechanics.
I am speculating I guess, because I have been through something similar at the college level, and from my experience, was a difficult thing to do.
You may not believe this would have anything to do with Pie’s recent difficulties, but I do.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not what's being discussed.
The statement in question:
“Looks like the demotion has affected him metally.”
Let’s presume for a moment that the writer was trying to talk about it affecting Pie MENTALLY, and not trying to imply that Pie was, in fact, a metal.
The question wasn’t whether changing Pie’s swing would change his performance – I think that’s rather obvious. The question is whether or not the demotion affected his mental state, and whether or not that was knowable from 16 at-bats.
by cwyers on May 20, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If him being sent down...
...craters him and prevents him from doing what he needs to do to improve, I would argue he doesn’t have the mental ability to make it at the big league level.
I say this because it’s not like the guy was producing acceptable numbers and he was shocked to be sent down. He had to know this was a real possibility coming around the corner. In fact, as I have said before, I don’t think the Cubs did him any favors by bringing him North to begin with. If he would have started at AAA and worked on his swing there, he may be in a better spot to stick with the team right now. We will neve know that, but he is not going through something that many other players have experienced, and still make improvements to be a good major league player.
"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel
by MPH73 on May 20, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an unrelated issue entirely..
cwyers is saying that it’s ridiculous to conclude that Pie has been mentally affected by the demotion based on a 16 AB sample.
You are both correct on this issue.
by SouthernCub on May 20, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
16 ABs tell us nothing.
And we can’t read his mind, but at the same time, you have to be extremely strong mentally not to have any adverse affects from what Felix Pie has been put through.
If I in my job had three different supervisors telling me how to do the job, came to work every day and never knew if I’d be let into my office, actually started doing well for a few days in a row, then didn’t get to work for a week at all, then got sent home for a guy who has been doing the job worse than I have this year – I’d be frustrated, distracted, and generally “affected mentally.”
by DGU on May 20, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doug Dascenzo
I would have liked to see a little more pitching out of this guy since he sucked at fielding and batting.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dascedo01.shtml
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Cecil Cooper
Nice quote from the Astros manager in the Houston Chronicle today:
“Tonight it seemed like there were more Cubs fans than Astros fans,” Cooper said. “That was a little disappointing. That’s all I heard was, ‘Go, Cubbies! Go, Cubbies!’ There was no, ‘Yay, Astros.’ That’s a little disappointing, but hey we’re going to battle. We’re going to battle them every night.
“Tonight we had them on the ropes. We just didn’t get the big hit in the eighth inning. I’ll take my chances with 3, 4, 5 every night in that situation. So today was their day. We have two more.”
by goldglove on May 20, 2008 1:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Was there any explanation of why Cooper...
...apparently tried to argue Soto’s inside-the-park home run?
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a real puzzler--someone said ha may have been asking about
whether a base was missed by a Cub runner. or maybe he was trying to invoke automatic ground rule double? Or maybe he thought inside the park counted for less than over the fence?
BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"
by cubfever7 on May 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what he said was,
“You see?! That’s why this damn park needs to be redesigned!”
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on the ropes?
They never had us on the ropes. They MIGHT have tied the game.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I was saying, 'Yeah, Astros.'"
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF was up with that anyway?
I thought Soto’s ball hit easily past the HR mark. But it was more fun to have an inside-the-parker anyway, so…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 1:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
The ITPHR combined with The Catch and the No Hitter made it a great night to watch baseball.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah...good point! And that catch took away a home run.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
StevenABQ
are you the reincarnation of Keystone80435?
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No?
Is that a compliment or have I become annoying!?
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was just a reference
to your prolific posts. Keystone’s first few days around here resulted in roughly 1000 posts. He was relentless.
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree.
I think Steven has raised some interesting points. And he still has about 400 posts to go before he catches up to Keystone’s first day or two.
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but
Instead of making his point, he has to say things like “You care to step in the box for him?” When discussing Pie, which isn’t valid discussion, and yes, is a little annoying. He just needs to work on it I suppose.
by adam316 on May 20, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Friendly Sarcasm
A typical diversionary tactic.
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Parrot
Keystone must have made 1000 posts just that one Pirate game:)
"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP
by Bump Bailey on May 20, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a question...hahaha
I don’t care how much people post. Gotta pass the time between games somehow eh? That’s why we’re all here all day long decreasing our productivity at work, home and beyond.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I resisted the urge to do just this myself.
I stand by that.
;)
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't suit your username at all....
tsk tsk…
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
VERY well played.
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, you're a blog clogger!
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would that make him
dustyswoodentoothpick?
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
VERY well played.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to vote for all 3 of you
in the BCB All Star balloting…........ seriously we should have one.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we should!
I nominate Santos for the All Star JumboTron.
2008: The year we put it all together.
by drewishdrewid on May 20, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could start our own award:
Burger King presents the Bleed Cubbie Blue Honda Civic-sponsored Commenter of the Thread Award brought to you by T-Mobile
Okay, "Wendy: hot and juicy redhead." Give this a try.
by neverAcquiesce on May 20, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cont'd
In association with Dad Wanna Have a Catch Day @ The Friendly Confines of Wrigley Field and the Budweiser Bleachers, Anheuser Busch, St. Louis, MO. Budweiser is brewed to be responsibly enjoyed by adults. All Rights Reserved.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good heavens.
I was wondering how this thread got so long. Now I know.
"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx
by Al on May 20, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And knowing is half the battle!
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you have 3 nominations Al
World’s Best Blog Proprietor, World’s Best Off-Season Blog Proprietor (for his roles in Top 100 Cubs of All Time, Movie and Book reviews). And last but not least, Best Game Thread and Recap Fanposter.
Al, this is what happens when the Cubs are hot and we have to wait all day for the nights Game Thread.
FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!
by tony412 on May 20, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well at least I wasn't running around the bases
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While yelling like the village idiot.
Hey, I think we have a new nickname for Tejada: The Village Idiot
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07
by gary varsho on May 20, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listening to Geovany
describing running the bases after his homerun was funny. Loved watching that over and over.
It’s fun watching this team. Seems like someone new steps up every night.
by sue369 on May 20, 2008 2:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He sure was Motoring!
Like that hustle!
by StevenABQ on May 20, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL - he was running like Keith Moreland doing the mile...
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geo's interview was rather funny, indeed!
He seemed more surprised than anyone that he was being waved home.
I agree 100%, Sue, it has been a lot of fun watching this team for a variety of reasons. The fact that, seemingly, someone new steps up every night is at the top of the list. I sure have been enjoying this ride the Cubs have taken us on so far, and hope it never ends!
by Tangled Up In Blue on May 20, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact is (which happens infrequently)
when the time comes that the starters each play to their potential, all at the same time, this team will F you up!
Its not even summer yet!
by The E-Man on May 20, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad News, AL
Jody Garut currently batting .195, .295OBP
Also,
since there is a connection here,
Jason DUBOIS has been signed by the iCUBS!!
by The E-Man on May 20, 2008 2:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And remember...
you can’t spell DUBIOUS without DUBOIS.
As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.
by santoswoodenlegs on May 20, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
Thank you for pointing this out.
Does this mean one cannot spell Fontenot without noticing: FONTE NOT?
by The E-Man on May 20, 2008 2:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kenny and the White Sux tried...
...to sign Jason Dubois a few years ago.
Accidentally signed Benson Dubois instead.
:)
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 2:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice work
Lotta good posts today. Keep it up.
My 2 cents.
In a different situation Pie should be playing every single day. I can’t fault the team for going with Johnson and Edmonds. Both have been alright.
I want Pie to play every single day in triple A and then bring him up for. God willing, the playoffs to run the bases and play defense late if we need it. He is still only 23? Nothing wrong with letting he play another 3/4 of a season in triple A.
by louisiana lumberman on May 20, 2008 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You know why...
I have NO PROBLEM at ALL with Pie being down in AAA? Because everything the Cubs are currently doing (for once, truly) tells and shows me they want to win RIGHT DAMN NOW. And, being a Cubs fan since forever, how can I argue with that? How can I give a good damn about Pie’s playing time when I WANT A WORLD SERIES TITLE AND I WANT IT NOW. I agree, if Pie were on a different team (probably plenty of different teams) he probably would already be playing every day at the MLB level, but I have no problem with us ‘being impatient’ with him at this stage of the game. None whatsoever…
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feel better now?
Nanika Ga Okoru!
Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.
by dat cubfan daver on May 20, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite - thanks.
Wait a minute... who am I here?
by malicedoom on May 20, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if ESPN could make it through one full week
without televising a new york or boston game. Mets vs Braves is of course the wednesday night baseball game this week. To be honest the mets are an average team at best, there is no way they deserve any attention what so ever
"This is why Major League Baseball does not need instant replay, because then every single play will then be reviewed." -- Joe Morgan, 5/18/08, referring to an umpire ruling a Carlos Delgado homerun foul when replays showed it hit the foul pole.
by CubsBall2202 on May 20, 2008 4:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
on and on
Lester’s no-no = great. 24 hours of non stop coverage about his no-no = the worst thing all week.
I’d like to hire someone to watch espn for 72 straight hours and tell me how much of that time is dedicated to Bos & NYC. Granted they have tons and tons of viewers from those areas but I reckon the rest of the fly over states and CA are greater than those two cities/areas.
by louisiana lumberman on May 20, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I wonder why Pie’s swing wasn’t fixed much earlier while still in the minors. Surely they could see the holes and his lack of control of the K zone. Even though he had success there, that didn’t mean that he could take that swing to the majors against major league pitchers. and swing at almost eerything and still succeed.
by alexinSac on May 20, 2008 5:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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