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OT: Bulls get #1 Pick

I was flipping back and forth during the game tonight because the NBA draft lottery was on tonight. The Bulls had a let-down year as some people see it (they were supposed to be very good). Anyways, the Bulls had a 1.7% chance of getting the number one pick they get it! For those of you who don't follow the NBA, there are two clear cut choices for the first pick: Michael Beasley out of Kansas St. and Derrick Rose out of Memphis.

I say go with Rose. He has the capability of being a Deron Williams or Chris Paul type player. Who would you take?

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or Al Yellon, managing editor (unless it's a FanPost posted by Al). FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable baseball fans.

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Depends

both Beasley and Rose are very good players. But who do the Bulls need more?

With Rose

G-Rose
G-Hughes/Gordon/Hinrich
F-Deng
F-Gooden/Thomas
C-Noah/Gray

In that situation the Bulls would probably have to trade Gordon and Hinrich or Hughes, possible two of those guys. Plus they still have Thabo who showed signs of coming around last year.

With Beasley

F-Beasley
F-Deng
G-Hinrich
G-Hughes or Gordon
C-Noah or Gray

In this situation you can trade Thomas or Gooden, and still possibly trade a guard. So it’s really a tough choice, Beasley is a go to guy scorer that the Bulls really need. But Rose is a floor leader who’s gonna score 15-18 points and make players around him better. So really the Bulls could use both guys, but I don’t think they could go wrong drafting either guy right now. In perfect situation the Bulls would draft Beasley or Rose and use Thomas/Gooden/Hughes/Gordon/ Hinrich to get a better power forward or point guard(depending on what the Bulls draft).

by cubsfan25 on May 20, 2008 10:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind seeing the guard go now.

I was against the Kobe trade to break up the core but after last season I’m all for it.

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on May 20, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

*guardS go

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on May 20, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you.

This puts the Bulls in good position to trade.

Now, that raises the question: should they trade the pick?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 3:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO!!!

They need to pick Rose, trade Gordon, Hinrich, and Thomas for Carmelo Anthony (I’ve heard that the Nuggets are looking to deal him).

by wrigleyrocker12 on May 21, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure how that would work...

Considering that the Nuggets have Allen Iverson. That would be a REALLY small backcourt.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No!

I’m a Carmelo fan. I have no idea why, but I am. But I don’t see him ever winning a title. Reminds me of a little ball-dominating guard with tremendous scoring ability whose greatest success is a Finals appearance in a historically weak East. Hmm…wonder where he is now?

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

carmelo

is a fast dying cancer.

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 21, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed,

As great as a player as he is, Melo has been given one too many chances to improve his attitude on and off the court. There’s no need to bring the type of liability to Chicago, especially when we don’t even have a coach yet.

"In all the categories that you pay the most attention to, except the loss column, we're doing very well" - Jim Hendry

by Jayo525 on May 22, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a Bulls fan...but a Beasley fan...

And I think you take him at #1. Not that Rose is a bad choice by any means, but the Bulls have screwed things up in the past.

The Bulls possess ZERO pure scorers. What does Ben Gordon need? He needs to play with a post player who can demand a double team from time to time. Same with spot-up PG Hinrich. Luol Deng? Great player, but not a takeover scorer. Each of these guys could benefit from a true low-post scorer.

I never understood the Noah pick. Let’s see…the Bulls most glaring problem was (and is) offensive production from the post. Well, they had Ben Wallace (not even going to go into what an embarassing signing that was) who is a historically bad free throw shooter with no inside game and Tyrus Thomas, a high-energy guy who can rebound and defend (the same attributes as Wallace). Hmm…let’s go with Noah and see how many offensive liabilities we can play in the post in one game. Baffling. Reminded me of the Detroit Lions WR draft run.

Rose is an upgrade over Hinrich, but Hinrich is an efficient point guard with above average on-ball defense and consistent jump shooter.

Seems like Beasley is the choice, but it wouldn’t be a glaring mistake to take Rose.

by Kansas25 on May 20, 2008 10:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I think it depends

If they could package Hinrich and another player (Nocioni, Gordon, Deng, Thomas, etc.) and get a legitimate, established low-post scorer, they should do it and take Rose.

If not, take Beasley, keep Hinrich to run the point, and package a couple of those other guys for an extra piece.

by SuperContext on May 21, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Furthermore...

I think Chicago needs to go into a semi-rebuilding mode, and dump Hughes, Gooden, and Noah/Thomas ASAP for expiring contracts and draft picks. Might even need to let go of one of the Hinrich/Gordon/Deng/Nocioni foursome. Nocioni is great off the bench, but 8.5 million for an above average sixth man? Better than the 12 mil a year Hughes makes, but still.

by Kansas25 on May 20, 2008 10:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Bulls have to semi rebuild

With getting Rose or Beasley the Bulls could possibly make the playoffs next year. A starting line up of

PG-Rose
SG-Hughes/Gordon/Hinrich/Thabo
SF-Deng
PF-Gooden/Thomas
C-Noah/Gray

or

PF-Beasley
SF-Deng
SG-Hughes/Gordon/Thabo
PG-Hinrich
C-Noah/Gooden

Both of those guys are impact players that will make the other players around the Bulls much better. Rose will get better shots for his teammates, and will score a decent amount of points himself. Beasley will give the Bulls a low post scorer, and will open up shots for everybody else. Plus lets not forget this is pretty much the same team that made the playoffs in 06 and 07. The Bulls could really use a low post scoring and upgrade at point guard. So what they should do is shop Hinrich, Gooden, Gordon, Thomas and others and see if they can geta upgrade at power forward or point guard, and draft whoever they don’t get.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In the (L)east...

Semi-rebuild doesn’t necessarily exclude playoff participation. The Bulls have had success in the past, but I think the highly overrated sweep of the aging Heat instilled the wrong mindset in the organization and fans. ‘A team on the rise’ was and is an accurate assessment, but I believe the popular thought was ‘a team on the verge’ which wasn’t the case.

Of course either player could vault the Bulls back into the postseason, but if the ultimate goal is a championship, then the current roster would fail unless Beasley/Rose evolves into a SUPERstar.

I’m just saying with the semi-rebuild statement that the Bulls need to shop some young talent and drop Hughes and Gooden in order to stockpile some draft picks and more importantly cap space. That way, in the next few years as their youth matures and develops (Beasley/Rose included), they will be able to make a free agent signing to turn them into a championship-caliber team. Hell, drop 2/3 of the team if Lebron James even whispers a hint of interest when he hits the market after 2009 (longshot).

Look at Boston…used their collected draft picks, young talent (namely Jefferson), and cap space to add Garnett and Allen to a team that had some pieces. The Bulls could do something similar, but would probably only need one more quality player rather than two.

The Bulls CANNOT win the title next year. So why not look ahead and build a contender for 2-5 years down the road?

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hughes

probably can’t be traded with his contract, unless you take on a contract equally as bad. Hughes isn’t a awful player though, he’s just a role player or third or fourth option making too much money. But Hughes and Gordon or Hinrich spitting time at shooting guard isn’t the worse situation in the world. As for the Bulls chances next year, I doubt they can win the championship but they can contend in the east. If Rose/ Beasley are rookie of the year caliber players next year, and they get a upgrade at PG or PF by trading Gordon or Hinrich, Gooden(expiring contract), and Tyrus Thomas.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

I think the Bulls will improve their roster for next year and the future. Getting this quality type player in that draft was huge. If he can pull off a good trade and add another good player to the roster, who can help them this year and in the up coming years it will all of the sudden start looking up for the Bulls. Before tonight I didn’t think they had much of a chance of turning the roster around anytime soon. Because i figured they would get a average player in the draft, and even if they pulled off a trade to add a good player they were still missing that go to player. But when you can add a Beasley/ Rose go to type player to your team, and still have some solid trade pieces to add another player, things aren’t looking so bad anymore.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 1:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

on paper the bulls do look like a strong team. A lot of our players are college stars and i think we can be a contender in the Eastern conference next year. I’m still in shock that we really get the first pick in the draft.

by columbusOHcubsfan on May 21, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bad Contracts

Gooden is an expiring deal this year and Hughes is an expiring deal in 2 years. They’ll be gone shortly, you don’t “Need” to move them right now. If you “can” move them in a trade you do it, but their contracts are almost up, they won’t hamper us forever

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 21, 2008 8:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

and wasn’t aware of specific contracts, but an “expiring deal” is quite the trade piece in the NBA. I just don’t think they should be part of the longterm plan.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy haven't we seen this before...

When the Knicks won the draft lottery so many years ago, and selected Patrick Ewing #1 overall, the cries of rigged lottery rang out from the rafters. Now turn to 2008, where a team with a 1.7% chance of winning the lottery gets the big prize.

Now I’m not saying the fix was in, but…err…YES I am saying the fix was in! Either the big market franchise (guess who) or the 2 smaller franchises (Miami and Minnesota, both with worse records) was going to get the pick. David Stern must be very proud.

Don’t get me wrong, I am happy the Bulls got the pick, but I can’t help but be cynical about HOW they got it.

"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will

by eswan9 on May 21, 2008 12:52 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you...

And since they rigged it for the Bulls to get the first pick, they will take Rose the home town guy.

"I love this world. I hope hell is as much fun!"

by HIGGY on May 21, 2008 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rose or Beasley?

Can’t go wrong with either one.

"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will

by eswan9 on May 21, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had the same thought

But I don’t care. This is Chicago – rigged contests are just par for the course.

by SuperContext on May 21, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly I am a cubs fan first and foremost

followed by gamecocks and then bulls and bears…

I freaked out tonight when we got the pick… Derrick Rose should be the pick end of discussion… We needa PG.. Upset we lost we will get em tomorrow

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 21, 2008 1:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Beasley is the clear choice

The Bulls already have a number of good short guards. They do not need another one. They lack a low post scoring threat. Beasley is the man.

by californiachicagoan on May 21, 2008 2:47 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

As a K-State grad, I’m extremely excited at the possibility of seeing Beasley in a Bulls uniform. The man is incredible. The Bulls already have a point guard in Heinrich so I don’t understand why they’d take Rose.

by grogg_2434 on May 21, 2008 6:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Because then they could trade Hinrich.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they do

I will need to update my avatar. I think I can do that, ha ha.

"Chicago baseball fans, who are composites of scar tissue and mortifying memories..." - George F. Will

by eswan9 on May 21, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hinrich has a big contract

It wouldnt be easy to trade him especially how he didnt play particulary well last year

by dlee25 on May 21, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

Actually, none of the Bulls’ guards are easily tradable. Gordon is undersized, streaky, and would have the base-year compensation issue if they try a sign-and-trade. Hughes is a vagabond with two expensive years left. Hinrich has an expensive contract and is coming off a year in which he regressed as a player.

If I had my way, I’d move all three and draft Rose:

- Gordon is a useful player, but I think he’s useful in a Vinnie Johnson sort of way – not as a first-option. And he’s going to want more money than he’s worth. He’s the type of guy who can win games for you when he’s on fire, but is all too frequently not on fire.
- Hinrich is a solid role player and would be a very good third guard with his defense and versatility. But he’s being paid too much to be a third guard, he can’t shoot well enough to be a go-to guy, and he’s a tweener.
- Hughes is good defensively at times and can get to the rim at times. But he can’t shoot consistently and just isn’t a good complement to Rose.

If we could do that (which is HIGHLY unlikely), I’d say keep Sefalosha and Duhon. We’d need to get a cheap shooting guard who can shoot from the outside and defend (i.e., a cheap combination of Hinrich and Gordon), and we’d have a promising backcourt rotation. Unfortunately, that’s not going to happen.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deng is the big chip...

But I’d like to see him stay. Hinrich doesn’t have much trade value after this past season, but packaging him with either Noah or Thomas might land something decent.

I agree on the assessments of Gordon and Hinrich. Too bad they both had rough seasons.

Personally, I think Hughes is a disease player. He couldn’t mesh with Washington, and couldn’t even mesh with Lebron. I wouldn’t like to see him around the Bulls young talent.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree...

Deng is the most valuable piece we have. Thomas concerns me because he’s shown little-to-no progress yet. Noah has some value because of his height and youth.

I realize that the Hughes trade was strictly a move to get Ben Wallace off the books. But I agree that it’s not a good fit on a young team that has aspirations of developing. Hughes reminds me of Crawford in that he’s best suited to be the #1 wing option on a bad team. He thinks he’s a top-tier player, but he’s not. He has the ability and athleticism to be a capable role player, but his contract and his personality won’t seem to let it happen.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duhon won't be back.

His trip to Carolina late in the season and idiotic comments to the press after made certain he plays elsewhere next year. Paxon doesn’t want him and Duhon wants to go elsewhere.

by N Oakley on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They'd need to trade somebody...

because neither Hinrich (not a consistent shooter, tends to get worn down guarding SG) nor Gordon (can’t defend SG at all) are an ideal pairing with Rose. And Hughes and Sefalosha aren’t good enough shooters, either.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disgusted in Memphis

In my very extremely biased opinion, the NBA lottery is terrible. If the Grizzlies have the worst record in the league, they get the fourth pick. This year, the Griz actually got the fifth pick having the fourth worst record in the NBA. I suppose I should be happy they didn’t get the seventh pick. It would have been nice for the Griz to get lucky and get the #1 pick. They could have taken Rose from the Univ. of Memphis. Oh well, we only have 1 major basketball team in this city, the Memphis Tigers. It’s not the Grizzlies, anyway.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on May 21, 2008 11:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

they'd have 4 pg's

why would they take Rose?

they just drafted Conley, traded for Crittenton, and have Kyle Lowry

Why on earth would they draft ANOTHER PG, just to appease the hometown fans?

I understand being frustrated with the process, but as a Memphis fan i’d imagine it would be a lot easier to be frustrated with the team’s management. How you can trade Pau Gasol for that little when you had rumors of much better players being offered, is ludicrous

I feel for Grizz fans, but it’s not the lottery that’s the main problem over there, it’s the management

by DartmouthCubsFan on May 21, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Management Is Terrible

The Grizzlies are really in the NBDL and sent Pau Gasol to the majors in that trade to the Lakers. Chris Wallace is not a basketball genius. The Celtics sure got better after he left. Sad to say, Jerry West was past his prime as an executive, when he got to Memphis. I give West credit for hiring Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello and later drafting Rudy Gay. The Griz had their playoff years with West in the front office, but West’s best days as an exec were with LA.

The Griz need to sell tickets. Rose would’ve done that. I would’ve kept Lowry. Conley and Crittenton would have been trade bait. There’s not enough money in this depressed city economically to support 2 major basketball teams. The city has made its choice, the Tigers and not the Grizzlies. Memphis won’t have an NBA team after 2021, when the Griz lease on the Fed Ex Forum is up.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on May 21, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Generating buzz...

would be the only excuse. Beasley would be the logical pick, but if they took Rose they’d have to deal Conley, do doubt about it. Neither will survive playing the 2 guard, and neither will be pleased in a backup role after this season.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rose

I think the Bulls have to take Rose, and it has nothing to do with the fact that he’s a hometown guy.
Rose is a true NBA point guard, and those don’t come around very often. A look around the successful teams in the league will show you how important a good floor general is. Parker, Nash, Paul, Billups, etc.
Beasley is a very talented player, and does fill some of the Bulls needs, however passing on Rose would be a mistake.
At first glance Rose doesn’t fit with all the guard’s on the Bulls roster, but the Bulls have the most leverage in that category. With the addition of Rose the Bulls can trade Kirk or Gordon. Hughes will be back because of his contract, no question about that. Duhoun has played his final game in a Bulls uniform. Hinrich or Gordon (who the Bulls have to re-sign) will get the most return in the trade market. Neither of whom are true PG. Hinrich has been playing out of position the entire time in Chicago.(He has done a tremendous job IMO, but is not a true PG)
If they select Beasley, they create an even larger logjam at the PF position, as I do not think that Bulls believe he translates into a true C in the NBA. Adding Beasley to the rotation of Noah, Thomas, and Gooden does nothing to strengthen the team. Thomas has the only real trade potential, but will get little back in terms of the help the team needs.
I like both Beasley and Rose, but they way the team is set up, Rose is the choice.

by Tangled Up In Blue on May 21, 2008 11:49 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I think Rose is the choice simply because true point guards are much more difficult to find that a PF. Look at the impact Chris Paul had in New Orleans. Rose seems like he could have similar impact with whatever team he joins.

It would seem that Beasley could be equated with Elton Brand to a certain extent and look where he has gotten. Not nearly as far as Chris Paul. To me that illustrates the impact a true point guard can have on a team.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to D'Antoni

Rose is Jason Kidd WITH a jump shot…

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And we know he wants whats best for the Bulls.

33.7% three point shooter from the college 3 line. Heck, Beasley shoots 37.9%. Mayo shoots better. Bayless shoots better. And Rose only scores 15 a game, so its not like he has to jack them up all the time.

“Negatives: Needs to work on his jump-shot consistency—especially from distance. A poor free-throw shooter.”

by californiachicagoan on May 21, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair...

Chris Paul couldn’t shoot coming out but is now decent. The knock on Tony Parker early was his inability to hit a jump shot. So it could improve.

But I agree. He is NOT Jason Kidd with a jumpshot.

To be honest, I hate the comparisons. Rose is Kidd. Beasley is Coleman. Love is Unseld. Mayo is a smoother Ginobili. Every player has some elite NBA player tagged to his name and it is completely undeserved.

Remember when J.R. Rider or Harold Minor were the next M.J.’s? Hmm…

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see the Kidd comparisons at all...

Kidd was known for his size and incredible court vision. Rose is similar in size but has more explosive, has more scoring ability, and is less of a magician with the passing. But I agree that Rose’s jumpshot isn’t much to write home about.

The Beasley/Coleman comparison is one I’m more apt to accept, in terms of OFF the court. Beasley appears to have an attitude problem. Whether or not it affects him the way it affected Coleman remains to be seen. But that’s at least more relevant.

by SouthernCub on May 22, 2008 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldnt shoot!! whattttttttt

did you see the final four that year?? chris paul was burying three’s during all of his college days

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 22, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

thats what i call the whole ncaa tour.

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 22, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Derrick Rose is the absolute right pick for the Bulls

Rose is going to be a high impact player in the NBA. The Bulls have screaming need for a point guard and floor general. Rose fits the need to a tee, and it also doesn’t hurt that he is a Chicago native.

John Paxson needs to pull his head out of his keester when it comes to the love affair with Kirk Hinrich. Enough with the players whose primary strength is the ability to grind and sweat. “Energy teams” don’t cut it in the NBA come playoff time.

Adding knowledge and challenging the saber-magicians, one post at a time.

by MDBNIU on May 21, 2008 11:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls bigger need...

is low post scoring, which they have lacked since Brand left. So Beasley would make sense in that regard.

Why not take a look at Brand again, who is supposedly on the block? Draft Rose and deal Hinrich/Thomas or Noah/draft pick and build around Rose, Gordon, Deng, and Brand. That makes sense.

Main point, which you asserted, is that Hinrich can’t lead a championship-caliber team.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd LOVE to get Brand back...

Beasley does make sense in the idea of post scoring, but the personality concerns scare me. If it were possible to get Rose and Brand, that’d be the route I’d take.

That said, I’d be hard-pressed to believe we can get Brand.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Hinrich

is going anywere, Paxson loves him and gave him a big contract. I doubt the Bulls will give up on him after just one bad season. From 04-06 the guy averaged around 16 points a game and plays good defense. While Ben Gordon could average 18-20 points game, he plays awful defense and doesn’t have a long term contract. So if a team comes along offering Gordon a big contract(like Knicks did with Jamal Crawford), Paxson can talk sign and trade or just let him sign with someone else. So if the Bulls get Rose, I’m pretty sure Gordon will be gone, and they will go with a back court of Rose, and Hughes/Hinrich. But is that that Bulls biggest need? For the last few years everybody says the Bulls need a low post scorer. We heard rumors of Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett, but now we have a chance to get a quality low post scorer, so why don’t we draft him? Nobody was really concerned with the point guard spot until Hinrich had his poor season, so say he returns to his 06/07 form? Whats the bigger need then? Thas what makes me want Beasley more, but I have heard great things about Rose.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly

but will the Bulls just give him away? How many teams will give up anything of good value with his contract? If Paxson is gonna trade him he’s probably gonna wanna get another starting type player in return, even if he has to throw in Thomas or Beasley.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean

Gooden or Gordon

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rumor is

he’s one his way to Miami.

"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly

by McRipper on May 21, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who

Hinrich? For who?

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For what?

By the way, I think that’s a great fit for Hinrich if he did go there. He can provide defensive help to allow Wade to rest more. He can provide some scoring punch from the perimeter to complement Wade, which has been a huge problem for Miami.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know who exactly

but here’s a link:
http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/51155

"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly

by McRipper on May 21, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if

Hinrich for Udonis Haslem would work? I dunno if Haslem is much of a upgrade over Gooden though.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take it

Haslem is a beast. Gooden is poop. Haslem has that 15 foot jumper nailed. I don’t think Haslem for Hinrich straight up is smart. We could probably get a little more for Hinrich. Rose is the pick though. All this talk about Beasley being a dominant low post threat. He’s 6’9 235 lbs. That’s not even bigger than Lebron whose 6’8 250lbs. I think Beasley will be a bust.

"Please move away from this vector and get into another coordinate pronto. There's no access for you in this quadrant." Mike Donnelly

by McRipper on May 21, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Beasley

will be good, but how good depends. Many compare things I have heard compare him to Derrick Coleman. Coleman was a quality player his first 5-6 years in the league, before he started to gain weight, had injuries and off the court trouble.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haslem is about the only remotely interesting piece...

and if the Heat go with Beasley, then Haslem is expendable. I’d want more though (although there’s usually a “talent tax” when you trade a small for a big).

Haslem would be nice on the boards, but he doesn’t really do much offensively other than shoot 15-footers. I think he’s kind of a lateral move compared to Gooden.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I agree with you on alot of things

I dont see taking Rose over Beasley

My 08 Cubs record 4-0
My 08 W.Sox record 0-2 (I havent seen a sox win in 3 years)
Updated April 26th

by Rudey on May 21, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chicago Sun-Times

reports that Rose is expected to be the draft pick.

Also reported (elsewhere), that if Rose is taken, Hinrich will be on the block, whereas if Beasley is drafted, Gooden/Thomas will be packaged and dealt. The problem is that drafting Beasley creates more trade opportunity, as a Gooden/Thomas package is more highly valued than Hinrich, who appears to be the only one who will be shipped out if Rose is drafted.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I figured that

the Bulls probably want a low post scorer and a point guard. So now they can draft one, and try to trade for one with their many pieces.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think they need to make multiple trades either way...

I don’t see how they address their needs in the post by just trading Hinrich, and they’d still have a logjam of question marks inside. And if they draft Beasley, they certainly have to trade multiple big men, and they still have the questionable perimeter situation.

I think the adjustments are easier to make if you draft Beasley (because it’s easier to trade big for small and then dump a guard than it is to try to trade small for big), but the character issues make him a dangerous pick.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, presumably they'd trade Hinrich

For someone with that low post presence they are looking for.

I also think Rose would make a quicker impact (it is usually easier for smalls to adjust to the NBA than bigs), so if they are looking to get good again fast, they’ll probably go with Rose.

by SuperContext on May 21, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus

it’s easier to trade Thomas and Gooden(with his contract) then Hinrich, Gordon and Hughes who all make big money or will make big money.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trades take two

and assuming you can ship out who you want and get back what you want is not wise

by californiachicagoan on May 21, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stretching a bit...

But what about trading the #1 to Memphis for Conley Jr. and the #5. If Memphis is that hot on Rose or Beasley and has a surplus of PG’s, then they might be interested.

If the Bulls take Rose, I’d say ship the Gooden/Thomas combo for a pick from 7-13 and take a look at Kevin Love. Word is he has already lost 15 pounds and is beginning to transform his body into an NBA-level body. It’d provide a post with an actual offensive skill set.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Stretching a bit...

But what about trading the #1 to Memphis for Conley Jr. and the #5. If Memphis is that hot on Rose or Beasley and has a surplus of PG’s, then they might be interested.

If the Bulls take Rose, I’d say ship the Gooden/Thomas combo for a pick from 7-13 and take a look at Kevin Love. Word is he has already lost 15 pounds and is beginning to transform his body into an NBA-level body. It’d provide a post with an actual offensive skill set.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wish...

We would’ve just drafted LaMarcus Aldridge in the first place and we wouldn’t have this problem…. sigh....

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 21, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Brandon Roy...

Technically, we DID draft Aldridge…

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok...

Kept him them… haha

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 21, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Paxson really screwed up the 06 draft with Thomas right now. He went with a project instead of going with what he usually does. Hopefully he starts coming around, but he’s been pretty much the same player the last two years. The 04 draft getting Gordon/Deng/Duhon was very good. I’m not a big fan of Noah, but that wasn’t a horrible draft since the guys drafted after Noah wouldn’t have fit the Bulls really well.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The 2004 draft was good...

But it put Paxson in a position in which he needed to make a bunch of trades. We’ve had the same need (quality full-sized SG and consistent low post scoring threat) basically since Paxson arrived. Instead he drafted an undersized combo guard (Hinrich), a VERY undersized SG (Gordon), a very good small forward (Deng), signed essentially an undersized PF (Nocioni). Those pieces already weren’t a good fit. In 2006, he compounded the problem by trading for an undersized project PF and a VERY raw project at SG/SF when he could have gotten a post scorer (Aldridge) or drafted a full-sized SG (Roy).

It isn’t necessarily that Paxson has drafted badly. The players he’s drafted have generally performed acceptably compared to their draft position (the exception being Thomas), but they haven’t fit well together. The excuse was that Paxson was drafting smartly to position himself for a blockbuster trade for the final piece, but then he never made that trade. I was on board until Paxson managed to squander our cap space AND not pull the trigger on the trade that would make these drafts make sense.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There has to be a trade either way...

I personally like Beasley because he reminds me a little bit of Carmello Anthony. He’s a tough kid and he’s got that killer instinct this soft Bulls team needs. I like Rose too, but I would hate to pass up on a 20-10 guy like Beasley.

Anyway, if we get Rose, then Hinrich and either Gordon or Hughes should probably be dealt. There is no way you can keep Gordon AND Hughes on the team; they are essentially the same player, streaky shooters who are inconsistent and have questionable defense.

If we draft Beasley, then you’re going to have to deal either Tyrus or Gooden or probably both, hopefully for another pick?

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 21, 2008 2:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of

rumor is that Anthony is available.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was just going to mention that...

as his agent said it’s possible. Although New Jersey is the only team really rumored in the hunt right now.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks on Anthony

I would be shocked if Carmello Anthony ever carried any team to a title.

by SuperContext on May 21, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

RE: No thanks on Anthony

Syracuse fans might disagree with you on that one

by Jobu on May 21, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he had...

Rose to help him, then we’re in business.

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 21, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One more argument for Beasley over Rose...

and this applies to Oden over Durant as well. Why overvalue a position because it is seemingly common logic? Teams draft seven footers with such frequency based largely on potential and the PAST success of bigger players, rather than taking the best player available. MJ was passed for size. Bargnani was taken #1 due to his height. It just doesn’t make since to take Oden just because he plays a position that is harder to find over a clearly more talented Durant, and this applies to this year’s draft.

Beasley posts better numbers than Durant, but the sudden influx of young point guards succeeding (Namely Paul and Williams) has everyone hot on finding that young PG.

Let’s look at the final four of the NBA. Parker, not highly touted and a foreign import, Rajon Rondo, Chauncey Billups, and Vujacic/Fisher/Farmar. Obviously one doesn’t have to possess a Chris Paul to find success. I find the post to be a little more indicative of those four teams success this year, with Duncan, Gasol, Garnett, and Wallace.

Just saying…

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 2:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't use the Durant/Oden comparison yet...

It’s easy to make the rush judgmenet in hindsight that Portland should have taken Durant and not Oden. But that’s based purely on the fact that a freak injury has sidelined Oden to this point. We don’t know whether Oden would have been better than Durant had he not been hurt over the summer. In fact, we still don’t know that Durant is the better long-term fit.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course...

just like we don’t know Beasley will be better than Rose. Those were my feelings before last year’s draft. I thought Durant was the pick no matter what, but only time will tell.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just think it's a false dichotomy...

I don’t necessarily think it was a choice last year between the player at the premium position or the player with more talent. I felt that Oden was the better talent and played the premium position. This year, I feel the same about Rose. Obviously, only time will tell as you said.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Granted

Oden won’t be Bowie or anything of the sort. Just pointing out that teams sometimes overvalue ‘classic’ positions and aged opinion. Rose may very well be better than Beasley, but the only reason ‘PG’ should enter the discussion is because it is a need for the Bulls, not because the PG trend is so hot right now. One draft produced a couple supreme PG’s, and now everyone seems to be valuing the position a little more simply due to their success.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A resurgent Pierce is key for the Celts

And I would argue that Chauncey Billups is underrated and nothing to sneeze at. But otherwise your point is well taken.

by SuperContext on May 21, 2008 2:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Billups

was a journeyman point guard until he signed with the Pistions. The Celtics, Nuggets, Magic and others gave up on him I believe.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree...

Pierce had one of his worst years this year, statistically speaking, since ‘99-’00. His PPG, RPP, and APG were all down this year. He hasn’t really taken the Celtics anywhere in his long tenure in Boston. The key was Garnett and Ray Allen, and to some extent Rondo stepping up to be a decent point gaurd. I’ll go even one step further, the biggest key was the team’s cohesiveness. The Detroit Tigers are the prime example that just throwing a bunch of good players together, doesn’t equal a good TEAM.

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 21, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Incorrect...

Pierce improved his shooting %, 3 point %, FT %, Steals, Blocks, and assists with a lower turnover rate from the year before. Of course he didn’t score as much or rebound as much with Garnett and Allen around, but he played WAY better this year. Thus, a resurgent year.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pierce...

Marginally improving his shooting percentages and the other stats you listed this year compared to last year are NOT the reasons the Celtics were the best team in the East and now playing in the EC Finals. Last year was a bit of an outlier if you look at his stats from 2000 – 2007, this year he was worse statistically than in any of those years (except last year). My main point is even if Pierce had an unbelievable year, without KG and Allen, he’d be sitting at home hoping the Celts got a good lottery pick.

''As long as he doesn't talk World Series, I'm happy.'' Lou Piniella on Ronny Cedeno.

by CubsBullsBears on May 21, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree completely...

that Pierce’s season was NOT the ultimate reason. But it contributed. As I said below, he was only rujevenated because of the Garnett and Allen acquisitions.

But don’t undersell Pierce’s season in the Celtics success…it isn’t easy to go from being ‘the man’ to ‘one of the men’. He sacrificed some shots and PT for the greater good. And if the Celtics win it, it’s pretty obvious it’ll be on his back, because Ray Allen has gone by the wayside and Garnett’s butthole seems to pucker down the stretch.

Funny sidenote…in an interview with all three, when asked who would take the shot in game 7 at the buzzer for the win, both Pierce and Garnett said “Ray”. Wonder if they’d change that thought now.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Certainly...

But would there have been a resurgent Pierce without Garnett? I think not. Similarly, if the Bulls infused more talent (Rose/Beasley + FA X) I would imagine Deng, Gordon, and Hinrich to have ‘resurgent’ years (whichever ones weren’t dealt).

And I do love Billups.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OT Topic

The Bulls suck. Jordan retired.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 3:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on May 21, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bulls

can’t go wrong with either guy. I believe both are going to be good players, and potential star players. The key for the Bulls is to trade some of their pieces to get that third good player to go with Beasley/Rose and Deng. They have way too many supporting players, and need to try to trade a few to get another good player. Who they pick will probably depend on if it’s easier for them to get the point guard they want or the power forward they want.

by cubsfan25 on May 21, 2008 4:51 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Rose will be the pick

There is zero chance Paxson takes Beasley in this town. Paxson has used up a great deal of his goodwill in this city. He doesn’t dare pull the arrogant move and draft a Beasley over a super gifted homegrown talent in Rose. Plus Beasley has a little baggage in his past.

Adding knowledge and challenging the saber-magicians, one post at a time.

by MDBNIU on May 21, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its arrogant to pick the guy you think is a better player?

Or arrogant not to be a homer and just draft guys because they are local?

by californiachicagoan on May 21, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The right strategy -- draft Rose, deal Hinrich

Like I said previously, Hinrich’s greatest strength is the ability to grind and sweat. “Energy” teams like the ones Scott Skiles loves to develop and coach DO NOT work in this league. Particularly at playoff time. And what inevitably happens with grinding energy teams? The players get sick and tired of the program and commit mutiny. We all saw the outcome in 2007. The plug was mercifully pulled on Skiles and this team was an unmitigated mess.

Derrick Rose is a marvelous fit for this team. A backcourt of Rose and Ben Gordon has the potential to be dynamite. Pair that up with Luol Deng on the frontcourt? Figure out what you have in Tyrus Thomas? Get a useful part via trade of Hinrich? THEN you might have something cookin.

Adding knowledge and challenging the saber-magicians, one post at a time.

by MDBNIU on May 21, 2008 4:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Gordon is a good fit, either...

Gordon provides one of the things you want in a SG to be paired with Rose: perimeter shooting. But he fails miserably on the other end: defense. Gordon simply cannot defend SG at the NBA level. It is the reason that he and Hinrich could not coexist successfully, and it will either hinder Rose’s ability to dominate (because he’ll get stuck guarding the bigger guards) or turn the game into a scoring fest (because whomever Gordon guards will light him up). In addition, Gordon is one of the most mercurial players in the league. He scores in bunches and then goes ice cold for games at a time. You want a guy who can fairly consistently hit the outside shot when spotting up for Rose – that’s not Gordon.

I agree that the Skiles approach is not a blueprint for long-term success. And I agree that Hinrich is not a guy who can lead a team to a championship. I think he’s a nice complementary piece (pair him next to a Kobe or LeBron and you have something) but he can’t lead. Gordon is too small for his position and too inconsistent to be a key piece to a championship team.

Either Hinrich or Gordon would be great as a third guard on this team. Unfortunately Hinrich is paid way too much for that, and Gordon is going to EXPECT to get paid way too much for that. And even then, it doesn’t address the need of a legitimate starting SG. So, I’d trade both Gordon and Hinrich if I could. I just don’t think that will be easy to do.

I’d definitely draft Rose, as I think he’s the best talent available and he lacks the baggage that Beasley has. But I think failing to address the fact that Gordon and Hinrich aren’t good fits alongside Rose will limit the success of the move. And then there’s still the issue of Hughes and the lack of a good post presence offensively.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thabo Selofasha...

Has a lot of defensive potential. It will be interesting to see if the new coaching staff can unlock his ability.

Adding knowledge and challenging the saber-magicians, one post at a time.

by MDBNIU on May 21, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

heres my 2 cents

the bulls need a great coach. they need avery johnson bad. i understand the hype of beasley and rose but what i dont understand is why there isnt more talk of getting the twin from stanford. good 7 foot centers are a rare commodity. joakim noah seems to be a cancererous bad attitude thug and any talk of carmelo sures needs to stop. at the end of the day the right coach will prove to be a far better acquisition than any player available i believe.

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 21, 2008 5:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You couldn't

be more wrong about Joakim. Joakim is a team player and a leader.

by sue369 on May 21, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

He probably was suspended due to too much leadership. Should have never been drafted by the Bulls.

by Kansas25 on May 21, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah

tell me how so! i guess all the reports were wrong and blogger sue knows different. so enlighten me about mr noah please.

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 21, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said he

seems to be a cancerous attitude thug. He had problems adjusting to the NBA but by the end of the season he was the only leader the team had. I don’t blame him for being upset with his team mates. He hates losing and that is a great attitude to have.

by sue369 on May 22, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Check it out, guys...
Blog A Bull

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on May 21, 2008 6:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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