Eight Bad Pitches: Cubs 2, Astros 4

Actually...

...Edmonds has now grounded into 2 double plays.

by jolietconvict on May 21, 2008 8:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

True.

Further proving my point.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

move Edmonds to the 8th hole

Not seeing too many other option right now.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 21, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

release him.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm the horse's rear that said Edmonds would hit.....

...18 HR’s yesterday. I suck. I am wrong.

After witnessing his pitiful inability to get around at all on a 90 mph pitch, I now have profound reservations that timing is his only problem.

Got to thinking-38 year old vet-had about 90 ab’s with SD-Cards said no thanks-SD said see ya’-we’ll pay you not to be here and would rather start Jody “stinkin” Gerut….there’s ALOT of smoke here. All too often, I get my Cub blue sunglasses on. I’ve not given up yet; but within the next 10 days or so, if he can’t pull a fastball-cut him.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

believe me

I’d like nothing more for him to be productive—it would, at least, make using Pie’s last option somewhat worthwhile.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you guys sure about Pie's option?

People mention it here—but i never see or hear it anywhere else.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely positive.

Remember – they’re option YEARS. Pie can be recalled as often as the Cubs like this season, just so long as he stays in the minors at least 10 days inbetween.

I has a blog.

by cwyers on May 21, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup...

he can be called up and down as much as the Cubs like this year. After this year, though, the story changes, because this was his third year on the 40-man roster, and he’s been an optional assignment in each of those three years.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Then how relevant is it really?

We’re in win now mode to be sure. If he can yo-yo this year, no problem. If his feces aren’t coagulated enough to stay out of the minors next year, they may never be.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's only relevant if...

Edmonds doesn’t pan out and we essentially wasted the option. It also reduces Pie’s trade value a bit because any future team would have to keep him on the MLB roster or risk losing him, too. Though that’s less pressing. The big issue is the first one – that this may have been an unnecessary risk.

Hopefully, it doesn’t wind up mattering, either because Edmonds in fact has something left or because Pie is good enough next year to not need to be optioned (or hopefully both).

It’s not a life-or-death-of-the-organization thing, it’s just a question of being sensible.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points--Hendry had to decide/hope that Edmonds panned out

calculated risk….I know none of us really believe he will—but what if shapes up? Would you take solid “D” .270 and 15hr’s? Would that make it a good move in your view?

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think that will happen?

Obviously I’d take that. But I don’t think that’s what will happen, considering Edmonds didn’t do that LAST year, and he hasn’t hit .270 since 2005. And who’s to say that Pie wouldn’t have gotten close to that with more time? Who’s to say that Edmonds is more likely to put up those numbers than Pie?

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The difference here...

...is Edmonds has put good numbers up in the past and Pie has never done much of anything at this level. I fully realize Edmonds hasn’t hit much for a while, but I don’t see Pie giving you much more with the bat this year than Edmonds would.

I’m not saying you keep Edmonds if he struggles past mid-June, but you go after a CF before the deadline.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 21, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again, agree to disagree...

I don’t see the value in signing Edmonds. I don’t think he has anything left. I’d have prefered to give Pie a longer look. If he wasn’t performing by near the deadline, then I’d persue a CF then.

Obviously, we disagree on the Pie development issue. I don’t disagree with you moving forward now that we have Edmonds. I just disagree with the original acquisition.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hear ya...

...and there certainly is a possibility that you are correct.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 21, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Same to you...

Hopefully, Edmonds surprises and finds his swing of old (or something close to it). And hopefully Pie figures it out and can be productive by opening day of 2009.

And if Edmonds IS done and Pie is still not ready, hopefully there’ll be a fairly low-cost option available at the deadline.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

P.S.

why can’t all disagreements be this reasonable?

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Because Alfonso Soriano sucks!!!" -- MDBNIU

Nanika Ga Okoru!

Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.

by dat cubfan daver on May 21, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

At the root of the disagreement

is the idea that there is some great divide between AAA and MLB which makes Pie’s multi-year pro success irrelevant. Yes, MLB is harder than AAA and yes, there are prospects who never make it, but Felix Pie is a prospect who has been successful at every level. He is a high-probability prospect. The odds of him being successful in the majors this year are higher than the odds of Edmonds being successful. And Pie’s 2008 ceiling is also higher than Edmonds’ 2008 ceiling.

by DGU on May 21, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what will happen or who's right, but....

but the logic of saying that a player with a .285 sixteen year career avg of .285 with 363 HR’s and 8 gold gloves has less of a chance of sucess than someone who has hit .217 with 66 k’s in 240 ab’s escapes me.

The world is littered with AAAA players and many of them hit a whole lot better in the MLB than Felix has so far. I agree that the signs point to eventual success, but this young man has struck out 23 times in 63 ab’s this year after EXTENSIVE extra help.

We’re talking about the same coaching staff who have stuck with Fontenot, Theriot and Cedeno. They don’t think he’s ready yet.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who would have ever thought

a poster with the handle “cubfever7” would be vociferously sticking up for Jim Edmonds?

Baseball is such a funny game.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I admit --you're right...

And I’m hard pressed to think of any other Cardinal or Met I disliked more intensely than him either. I mean passionate dislike—my wife could testify.

I could go to a game anywhere and if people had one Card they hated—it was him. I changed the day they signed him, I can’t explain it. It was almost immediate. I practically have a man crush on the guy.

But for some reason, I can only see a “hopeful ceiling” a “wishful return” to at least somewhat of his old self. I think of the old Edmonds in our existing lineup and how that would match up against ANY other MLB team or pitching staff and I want him to turn it around so bad. I want to see great CF plays in blue pin stripes and a legit left handed power hitter with a .385 OBP in the middle of our order. The guy has 13 post season HR’s and 42 RBI.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It escapes you because you have built this mythical chasm and fixed it between the minors and the majors.

Felix Pie has a history of success. He does not have a history of success at the major league level, but he hasn’t had regular playing time at the major league level.

There are Quad-A players, but there aren’t nearly as many as Cub fans who can only see prospects through Corey Patterson glasses think there are. Felix Pie doesn’t look like a Quad-A player. He isn’t a one-year wonder. He isn’t old for the levels he’s been at. He isn’t a one-tool player. He’s a five-tooler with a proven track record over multiple years and still young.

Meanwhile Jim Edmonds has a career path that is headed down, sped up by injuries and age. It is possible that he will revive, but not as possible as it is for Felix to carry on his success.

Another point – I do not believe Felix Pie got a lick of help from Lou Pineilla. Lou told the media he made Felix his “pet project” but everything in the playing time logs, says that Lou did not want Felix to succeed. He wanted a veteran LH bat in the lineup and the only position he was going to get it was in the OF. I know most people are not going to buy into this perspective, so regardless having a lot of “help” doesn’t mean that Felix has actually been helped. There is such a thing as miscoaching. And just because a coach works with one player or even most players doesn’t mean he will work with all players.

Even despite all this, Felix Pie is still more likely to succeed than Jim Edmonds.

by DGU on May 21, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe so on the mythical chasm...

but I’ve had 1st row season tickets for AAA for years. There’s been a few I’ve misjudged and a few I’ve scouted/predicted dead on the money.

Ryan Braun and Yovanni Gallardo were easy to predict-Hoffpauir was always a raker and really good glove man-Theriot was clearly good enough to make it in MLB on a 25 man..Dana Eveland had player written all over him, I still think Buck Coats can make someone’s 25 man, Cedeno always seemed more than talented enough to break out of AAA and Pie is the same way. They both share one common flaw-immaturity-not to the extreme-but alot of it. Cedeno seems to have grown up-Felix will too more than likely—but when? It took Ronny awhile. We need to win now.

When you go out on limbs about a manager not wanting someone to succeed and that they misled/deceived the media because of a mythical hidden agenda, you’re right, many won’t buy that perspective. Piniella will start you in CF if you produce—he doesn’t care where it comes from.

Examine your own objectivity and chasms on Pie when you stoop to making statements about mangers wanting players to fail. That’s WAY out there bro’.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chasms and objectivity

I think I recognized the extremity of my perspective in stating that I didn’t expect many to adopt it. I have a little perspective here. Just because a perspective is extreme does not make it wrong.

I would note that in my view, there is no hidden agenda at all. Lou has been quite open about wanting another veteran LH bat. Originally this view was manifested in a willingness to cut into DeRosa’s playing time to get one (Matsui, then Roberts). Given that he can’t get a LH bat for 2B, where else is he going to squeeze one in if not the OF in place of Pie? And if Lou was really invested in Pie’s success, how did Pie lose the starting CF job after 4 days? Why did Pie get benched for a week after a 4-day hot streak where he hit .500 and hit for power?

It’s not that I think Lou wants Pie to fail or has some evil agenda. He is convinced the Cubs need a veteran LH bat to maximize the lineup’s production and he is acting accordingly.

by DGU on May 21, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your response is well reasoned...

..and I can buy it. But in a prior post you said ” but everything in the playing time logs, says that Lou did not want Felix to succeed.” That is Oliver Stone-ish-but it’s possibly true. Would he still be so desperate for a “veteran” LH bat if Pie had done anything offensively? Is the veteran thing that big of a deal to guys like Lou and even Dusty if they have production? Hoffpauir is making a case for himself to stay up if he can play a reasoanble corner OF-then Dome can occasionally play CF.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well said...

...on both your points above.

There is no one that wants to win more than Piniella, and he will indeed go the direction he thinks will win the club the most games.

You may not agree with his call on Pie, but it’s time to accept the fact that a very successful major league manager did not think he was in a position to contribute.

I stopped my bitching about Soriano at the top of the order, because it got old. This Felix Pie stuff is getting old too.

"I don't like them fellas that drive in two runs but let in three" Casey Stengel

by MPH73 on May 21, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

in that case

you go with Pie, because he’s a better defender. He can pinch-run, which Edmonds certainly can’t, which might be critical in the post-season.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Keep being hopeful...

but be cognizant of the fact that he may in fact be done. There’s no reason not to hope for the best, but it’s important to remember that this was a dumpster dive and thus the likelihood that it works out is low.

I hope that Edmonds surprises and has something left down the stretch. It’d make an already good offense better, because we haven’t been getting anything from CF offensively to this point. But I’m certainly not expecting it.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

DeRosa's there

to put a man on for Soriano. It was a subtle move by Pinella hoping no one would notice that he’s kind of acting like LaRussa but not quite.

by walsh2317 on May 21, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

heh.

I noticed. :D

And I’m glad Mark’s good with it. He’s been very productive of late. That’s so important.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

thankfully, I was at dinner with my wife and didn’t have to watch the game. Here’s hoping the Cubs give Chacon his first L of this young season today.

And, in honor of the CL final today, I humbly submit that one, there is only one team in London and it’s Tottenham Hotspur, and, two, that Chelsea are pants.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pants?

I hear that phrase on my brother’s soccer video game all the time? What’s up?

by TC Cubby on May 21, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out...

just brit slang for bad.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, yes

I meant what is the meaning behind it?

by TC Cubby on May 21, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pants are bad?....like these?

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 21, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dad?

is that you?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The officiating in this match=

pants.

Want to join the conversation I see below about the game, but haven’t peeked…I’m in the 85th minute (DVR).

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, this pitch=

pants.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

You’ think they could’ve done a better job with two weeks to prep.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

No way that should have been a yellow when Scholes got busted up, and now Chelski is resorting to thug tactics to slow the MAnU attack. God, I hate the Blues.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No yellow for either guy.

It’s a contact sport.

PS, no spoilers up here, I’m not going to scroll down. 91st minute.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll stay down there.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hurry up.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha, i'm hurrying.

Kalou for Malouda? Hard to tell what is actually happening with Tommy Smyth in the booth.

Smyth or Morgan? By the way, how bad was Seedorf? He sounded like Andre the Giant in the Princess Bride.

“My way’s not very sportsmanlike”

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

O.M.G.

Just. Hurry. Up.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

WOODWORK!

Lampard’s fat got in the way.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha!!!!!!!!

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Cole subbed

I think he tweaked a tear duct.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of tear ducts...LE SULK!

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never gonna happen, but

Loic Remy might…

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate John Terry.

But that was a nice play.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Terry and Joe Cole

are the only guys on that team I have any respect for

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See, I hate both of them.

I secretly man-crush for Michael Essien.

I’m glad we can both agree that Didier Drogba is a horrible human being.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He tried to

claim he’s not a diver this week….

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard.

Joe Cole has been diving all over the ground today. I actually don’t mind JC, but today he’s been terrible.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Avram Grant is a dumbass

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You caught up yet?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, i'm not FF'ing at all.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ROONEY OFF INSTEAD OF TEVEZ?????

Tevez has hid all game.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So has Rooney

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's Chelsea's problem with what Tevez did?

They did it twice already this game.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

BYE BYE DROGBA

WHAT A PUNK.

BYE BYE DROGBA.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

Chelsea had been beating up on the ManU forwards all second hald and ET. Tevez had had enough and Drogba turned into little punk.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I meant the giving the ball back OOB.

Both teams have been pretty classless.

This game is getting fun. In ET right now…

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep. It's real fun from here on out.

I gotta run. Talk more tonight if you’re in the game thread. I should be in around 10 or so.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aight.

later.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

YESS!!!!!!!

LE SULK MISSES!!!!

Ugh, I can’t believe I just rooted for SAF’s smug ass.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No love for Queen's Park Rangers?

Millwall?
West Ham? (which hosted a baseball team in the ‘30s….)

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 21, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

QPR and Milwall

haven’t sniffed the EPL in a while.

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

But they are still football teams that are in London. I admire the fans that stick with their relegated clubs through the lower divisions. That’s real loyalty.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 21, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"one team in London" is tounge in cheek

you know that right?

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aye

Tongue in cheek even.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 21, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's just an old chant

all the London teams use it.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I guess “I humbly submit ” isn’t usually part of the chant though.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 21, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't Arsenal play in London?

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on May 21, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never heard of 'em.

:)

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One team in London! One team in London!

I’m ducking lightning bolts, but rooting for the red devils here in an hour or so!

"This is the kind of thing … that makes you want to see the Chicago Cubs team lose." Marty Brennaman

by Bildo1805 on May 21, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

nothing to add really

just like you said sometimes you just lose but i will add its to early to tell how the trade deadline will pan out. with that being said i really wanna a major league,everyday centerfielder. i just cant see how it can get any better with what we have. pie just isnt ready YET!! reed is a superb fill-in and edmonds’ oven timer went off 3 years ago. not even any ashes left….he’s done,done,done.

lou knows a heck alot more than me but i’d sure like a look at cedeno in CF.well on to tonight. lets finish like we came cubbies and win one.

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 21, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

To answer your question from last nights gamethread cubsluver....

I grew up in Stillwater and Enid…most of my family lives around the Stillwater/Perkins area. My Grandmother was the OSU Food Service supervisor for 26 years and my father worked in the Facilities Dept. for 10, so I had more than my fair share of free doughnuts from the bakery and got to hang out on the football field and weight room during practices growing up. (Jimmy Johnson’s hair looked perfect, even when it was dark brown, and he was really nice to me.) Several of my aunts and uncles grad-u-ma-cated from OSU, and I’m sorry, but that is the only college team I actually care about.

Orange….Power!
Orange….Power!

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 21, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

how much did boone

give them today?? all that money and cant even get a single player drafted. boomer soonerrrrrrrrr!

It might beeeeee!! It could beeeeeee!! It issssss!! Homerun!! Holyyyyyyy Cow!!!

by cubsluver22 on May 21, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This was definitely

One of those games where “you just get beat”. Hey, you can’t win em all.

by adam316 on May 21, 2008 8:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pence GS.....

I said last night that I thought that Fukudome could have had a chance at catching the Pence HR if he had been playing deeper. I checked the replay today and indeed it looks like the ball landed in the first row of the RF seats. He had a long run since he was playing in and therefore watched the ball sail over his head. Even Brenly said that during BP, Pence was pounding the ball to RF. Kosuke is still new to the Majors and learning, so he he really can’t be blamed. Obviously, it would had to have been a spectacular catch to rob Pence of the HR, but at least he would have had a chance if he was playing a little deeper. In fact, later in the game he robbed Blum of a HR at almost the same spot with a great catch.

Oh well-what could have been….

"Hey-Hey! Home Run! Attaboy Ronnie!" ~ Jack Brickhouse

by ronsanto10 on May 21, 2008 8:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Looked to me like....

...the ball was at least 12 feet off the ground. If Kosuke was playing on the warning track he still wouldn’t have had a chance to catch it. It was a line drive…

by seang03 on May 21, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is Fukudome's

anyway? He hasn’t looked as sharp with his hitting as he was early on, not to mention that he is always shaking his hand like something is wrong with it.

by adam316 on May 21, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It may be the road games.

I haven’t seen that hand-shaking, but Dome has a pretty extreme home-road split.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen the arm shake

it happens most after he has an at-bat where he fouls off a lot of pitches from a LHP.

I think he’s rolling his wrist funny.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Len and Bob

stated that it is likely a result of him hitting the ball a little “thin” (golf term) and the bat vibrates a little more that usual and the vibrations resonate up his right arm. I know it isn’t a pleasant feeling when that happens swinging a golf club.

There was a similar instance involving Prince Fielder where he made contact off the end of the bat and hit a soft single to right and ran to first base with hinds hands open in front of him as if they were on fire.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kitchen Door

That also is a habit he picked up running at lunch time—OUTTA MY WAY!

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

now that you mention it

it did look more like he was carrying a really big sandwich loaded with all kinds of meats that he no longer eats ;).

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Subway

I’m thinking when Prince hits up Subway for a Veggie Delight, he’s loading it up and drenching it in mayo.

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

thought the same thing..

but was about 30 minutes behind the game (dvr) and couldn’t get on last night to see if anyone mentioned that. even more strange is that Dome got to the fence but stopped to play the rebound only to watch it land in the first/second row.

by cubbiefanTN on May 21, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was going to say the same thing!

It reminded me of a Gray Matthews Jr. catch last year. Well it would have had Kosuke been able to get a foot on the wall and propel himself upwards. Not saying it could have been made but I thought a player like him would have given it a try.

Calm down.

by Kinky Reggae on May 21, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was great

to see Derrek get some hits. Another Aramis homerun was nice too. Hopefully we see more of those.

Today is a new day and a new game. I’d take 2 of 3 from the Astros.

by sue369 on May 21, 2008 8:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Just a note from

Josh’s I-Cubs recap:

Felix Pie came out of his demotion slump. Pie went 1 for 2 with his first home run in AAA. He scored twice, stole a base, walked once and had a sacrifice bunt.

Just sayin’.....

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 8:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Pie will be just fine.

And if Edmonds keeps this up, Felix ought to be back in a couple weeks.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

that would at least

have the lowest cost to the team.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct me if I'm wrong..

but if we bring Felix back up in the next week or two, he would still have an option left right?

"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My Understanding

I think he still needs another season of being moved off the 25 man, to run out of options? Can someone confirm?

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

FYI on options (which is slang) for optional assignment for players on 40-man roster

When a player is on the 40-man roster——BUT NOT on the 25-man Active MLB roster, he is designated as: to be on optional assignment

The club can FREELY move him between the 25-man roster and their minor league clubs at will or as many times as they choose.

Caveat I: When a player is on the 40-man BUT NOT on the 25-man roster for any part of more than three seasons, he then is considered OUT OF OPTIONS can’t be assigned to the minors without first clearing waivers.

Caveat II IF a player has less than 5 years of professional experience, he may be optioned to the minors in a fourth season without being subject to waivers.

Caveat III: IF a MLB player is ineligible for free agency and “has options” remaining, his team may option him to a minor league team without consequence. This is usually what is meant when players are “sent down” to the minors. Likewise, when a player on the 40-man roster is added to the active major league roster, he is “called up” to the majors.

Felix Pie was on the Cubs 25-man roster in 2007 & 2008 , he has the entire 2009 year as an option year as well where the Cubs can send him up and down freely this and next year.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 21, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks Man

Appreciate the info, so he has another year after next due to having less than 5 years pro experience. Thats the part I was unsure about. Yeah cuz he’s been on and off since 4/07 so that makes sense. Cool.

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Meant after THIS year"

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie has more than five years of pro experience...

This is his seventh pro season, to be exact. And this is his third year on the 40-man roster. He has now used his last option, and so next year he’ll either have to be on the MLB roster or he’ll be subject to waivers.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pro Season

Sorry to be misinformed on this, but can you tell me what quaifies as a “pro” season?

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any season in MLB or the minors...

Minor leaguers are professionals too.

Pie was signed in 2001 and begin playing professionally in 2002.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

getting paid to play baseball?

Certainly, it includes AAA ball.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Well I figured that, but I guess I wanted to know if it started at a certain level of Minor league ball.

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It starts at the lowest level of minor league ball...

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

Appreciate it, this has always been an area I felt I had very little understanding about. And, to be honest had not worried much about untill recently.

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No problem..

For what it’s worth, options are one of the most commonly misunderstood aspects of baseball operations.

And it’s not something that is generally a huge problem. Occasionally a guy, for whatever reason, takes longer than expected to reach his MLB potential. It happens from time to time.

Hopefully, it doesn’t become an issue for the Cubs with Pie.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Short answer:

Getting paid to play.

Long answer:

Signing a contract with a Major League Club, even a minor league contract, at least that’s how I read the MLBPA Collective Bargaining Agreement.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think this is quite accurate...

Pie was added to the 40-man roster in 2006, though he didn’t come up to the MLB. Therefore, I believe this was Pie’s last option year.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks

appreciate the info! But I thought I read somewhere that if a player is sent down and then brought back up within 15 days or so, it didn’t count towards the option. Does that make any sense?

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That isn't the case...

If you’re sent down at all, you’ve used an option for that year.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's hope that...

1. Edmonds manages to find his 2006 self; and
2. Pie builds on yesterday’s game.

That way, we get good benefit for this year, and then hopefully next year Pie will hit well in Game 1 so that Piniella doesn’t feel the need to give up on him immediately again.

And if Edmonds doesn’t start producing more, let’s hope that Pie gets it done immediately so that the Cubs don’t decide to go dumpster diving again or decide to trade the farm for a stopgap option.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it just me that thinks Edmunds

appears to be slower than molasses in the field? Batting aside, it could be Pie’s defensive quickness in CF that may be more beneficial to the team if both these guys can’t hit the side of barn.

by JFCubFan on May 21, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may or may not be right...

but at this point it’s pointless. Edmonds will be here until he proves he can or cannot produce with the bat. Pie’s defense wasn’t enough to keep him in the lineup before Edmonds arrived, and Edmonds’s defense won’t be bad enough to get him replaced.

If Edmonds hits, he stays. If Edmonds fails to hit, he goes. If the latter happens, then the Cubs will either give Pie another shot or they’ll go back to the scrap heap, or they’ll try to make a trade.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by sue369 on May 21, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ascanio

I thought the guy had to be scared to death and did an admirable job. Power arm and great off speed. I could see this guy rounding into another Marmol if he stays agressive. I was surprised at two innings after mainly being the I-Cubs closer. He deserves another chance. He sure didn’t hurt us last night.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on May 21, 2008 9:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm happy

to see another potentially good arm in the pen. The Chad Fox Story (Coming soon to Spike TV) is great and all, but we need young, strong arms. Not everyone can be Jon Lieber.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't happy with Ascanio

last night at first. I thought he was pussyfooting around with his off-speed stuff and pitching scared.

Then Rothschild came out to talk to him and it was like he was a different pitcher—the one I saw in AAA. Much, much better.

He needs to use the changeup just to keep batters from sitting on his fastball. It’s not going to be an out-pitch for him.

It's a girl! Born 1-18-08. 2246 PST. 8 lbs. 1 oz.

by Josh77 on May 21, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not to pick on you specifically, but

why do people everywhere keep saying “the next marmol” about ascanio? they really aren’t all that similar as pitchers. i sure hope that ascanio develops into as effective a reliever as marmol eventually and he seems to have great stuff in his own right, but all the comparisons between the two just don’t seem particularly accurate, imo.

by ohboy on May 21, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He got lucky

He had horrid command

by californiachicagoan on May 21, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody else having trouble

posting comments? For me it is freezing up and then it never posts.

by adam316 on May 21, 2008 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

SBN sites have been intermittently down this morning.

They’re working on it. Keep trying, we should be back up to stay soon.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was going thru bcb withdrawl lol

by Madison Cub Fan on May 21, 2008 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

it's been awful!

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're BACK!!! WHOO-HOO!

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 11:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

are there 12 step programs for these things?

My name is Heidi and I am addicted to BCB. hehehe

by Madison Cub Fan on May 21, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hi Heidi!

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 21, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hi ballhawk

Are you also addicted??? LOL

by Madison Cub Fan on May 21, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

There was a massive outage at SBN’s host company. It appears to have been fixed now. All the SBN sites (and some others this company hosts, too) were down for a couple of hours.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

coupla days

people will be saying “WHERE WERE YOU DURING THE BCB BLACKOUT!”

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whew...

Thank a higher power it happened during the work day. Don’t have room at the house or in the budget for any new additions from a BCB Blackout baby boom.

by N Oakley on May 21, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yesterday...

...ended up better than I thought it was going to. Sure, still a loss, but we held our own. Here’s hoping we can continue to keep that HOU lineup in check for one more game…

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Looking on the bright side...

Hopefully Edmonds will be picking splinters out of his butt in Pittsburgh. I’d really rather have Jason’s bat in the lineup in CF than Edmonds’s.

I’d also like to see Ronny given a chance in CF, though both he and RJ are RHBs, and Lou seems to only play Ronny against LHP.

If that fails, hopefully Dome will agree to play CF, DeRo in RF, and a Fontenot/Cedeno platoon at 2B. I realize that puts three MI bats into the lineup, but it is better than having an extra pitcher’s bat (Hollywood) in the lineup.

"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007

by DeRoMyHero on May 21, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ascanio

It was only 2 innings, but he pitched well. Lieber and Wuertz have had their good moments in the pen this year. I would still like them to be more consistent. I have worried a little that the team does not have enough good relievers. You can’t make up for quality with excessive quantity. The Cubs need to figure out who their best six relievers are and stick with them. Five starters and six relievers should be enough for a pitching staff.

"The big possum walks late." - Harry Caray

by memphiscub on May 21, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I’d rather have another position player and one less pitcher…

"I realize very well that I could regress to the mean."
-Brian Bannister on his BABIP

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 12:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I've been saying this for several years.

But teams are going to larger pitching staffs. The Brewers had 14 pitchers for a while, which is ridiculous.

12 is still too many.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know right?

11 pitchers should be plenty. Look around the league and you notice most teams have pitchers that are hardly ever used in games. Yost in his own world and probably soon to be gone. And LaRussa having to use Pujols at second base one game was very dangerous. Imagine if there was a DP ball and he got wiped out by the runner.

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This assumes that...

... you have five starters who can consistently go seven innings. Most teams don’t have that. That’s been one of the few problems the Cubs have had so far.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we're close tho.

Z can do it. Demp, except for yesterday, has done it. Lilly is close or is already doing it.

I’d really like to see if Marshall is stretched out.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

any guesses

on whether DLee plays?

"Anytime I want to throw 95 or 96 (m.p.h.), I can throw it. But it's not how hard you throw in the big leagues. It's how you locate your pitches and learn to pitch the game." - If Zambrano has truly figured out how to pitch, look out.

by kylejo on May 21, 2008 12:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It'd be a shame to sit him...

after a 3 for 4 day, especially with tomorrow off. Does he really need TWO days off back-to-back? Hope not.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with Bob

who said that there is no way you can sit DLee at this point. If he had struggled again, that would be a different story.

At this point, you can’t sit DLee who is heating up, while Soriano seems to be cooling a bit. It would be too much of a detriment to our offense

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before the road trip started..

The speculation from the broadcasters was that he would get tonight off. But since he has heated up a little, I have no idea now….

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure he plays today

He can rest tomorrow and this weekend in Pittsburgh, take in the sights perhaps.

by JFCubFan on May 21, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CF

I would say that we are burying Edmonds a little quick here but in reality he probably at best will hit .250. Above cubsluver22 and others are wishing for a “major league” centerfield, this brings me back to my point that I have harped on forever, the Cubs might as well put Pie in there for 6 weeks just to figure out if he can do it. With that being said I am afraid he might be damaged mentally right now.

The fact remains that Johnson and Edmonds are not going to do much better than Pie, give him a legit shot.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on May 21, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Arm chair Psychology

Please tell me we’re not going back to Pie’s mental state.

by StevenABQ on May 21, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pie looked really damaged mentally yesterday...

when he went 1-2 with a HR and a walk and a SB.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

but...

he’s 1-18 since he got sent down.

Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. ---Crash Davis

by carmen_fanzone on May 21, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Edmonds has totally eclipsed that performance.....

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

well....

...his IS 2-11. :)

Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. ---Crash Davis

by carmen_fanzone on May 21, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

2-12

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Edmonds isn't

reworking his swing… hopefully, Pie is.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

StevenABQ

I always find it entertaining on this site and sports radio to hear fans talk about professional athletes mental state and consistently dismiss it like these players are robots. I understand that they are “professionals” and everyone thinks that they should be unaffected by booing or media pressure, but I bet 99% of them are bothered by it. Just about everyone on this site is a “professional” in some arena and I guarantee if you were struggling at work, people talking about it publicly on the radio or in the papers would eat the majority of us alive, to the point of being unable to sleep and eat. If us posters on this site were put in the situation Pie has been with all the expectations we would fold like a chair, period. Unless Barry Zito doesn’t have a conscious think about how badly he must feel, almost like he is stealing money. You always hear people say that someone got a big contract and now they aren’t working as hard well there are twice as many people who would work that much harder to prove they are worth the money.

Bottom line is fans for no apparent reason believe that athletes are immune to the public’s perception or thoughts on their production at work, these people are human.
Few athletes would ever admit that is affected them but perception is usually reality.

Lets do it Cubbies

by slocs55 on May 23, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think .250 is optimistic.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Disappointed in the walks

far more than the HR since it wasn’t a horrible pitch. Up and away, good piece of hitting by the guy that runs funny.

FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!

by tony412 on May 21, 2008 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I said to my girlfriend

That on that 2-0 pitch one of two things were going to happen. Hed roll over it to short for a DP or hed crush it. Guess I was unfortunately right-——

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Dempster seems to get a little too picky at the wrong times. He did so well in his last start when he pounded the strike zone and pitched to contact instead of trying to pick at the corners like he seemed to be doing last night.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it's sour grapes..

but it sure seemed the ump was squeezing Dempster all night….

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

CB Buckner

was behind the plate, who I severely dislike (can’t give any specific examples, but to me, if I know an umpire’s name, there is a problem). It seems everytime he is doing a cubs game something just isn’t right and last night his strike zone seemed inconsistent, and not equally inconsistent.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was terrible on

the low and away to lefties. HORRIBLE. I cant stand how he punches people out——get over yourself.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Although he was terrible

in Asciano’s favor on a couple of pitches, so I can’t be too mad at him for that (meaning at least he was consistently inconsistent). I remember one that Asciano threw to Berkman (i think) that was so clearly low an away. Berkman backed out of the box and just stood there for a while obviously upset about the call, which i could understand.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Terrible in our favor still doesnt mean good

And youre right, that pitch to Berkman was an embarrassment to umpires.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

terrible is never good. But if an ump must be terrible, at least be terrible to both teams. Which Buckner was not too Dempster. Sampson was getting the outside corner to righties called whereas Dempster was not.

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well lets get him fired

j/k, but someone’s trying to

http://www.petitiononline.com/cbbuck/petition.html

FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!

by tony412 on May 21, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with both of you

when it comes to Buckner, (I usually call him by my nickname for him-just substitute an F for the B at the front of his last name). He was squeezing both pitchers last night, and doing so with an inconsistent strike zone no less. Buckner is infamous for this, he does think that he is the show. I remember more than a handful of times that Buckner’s umpiring was poor to say the least, and he was confrontational when approached by manager(s) about it.

Jimmyeatworld

by Jimmyeatworld on May 21, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The kicker for me last night...

was that Fontenot was our only Lefthanded option at the end…ugh. I told my son as Fontenot came to bat…”Why is he hitting here? He’s going to ground out to 2nd.”

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 21, 2008 12:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Another kicker

Len said it perfectly. His job was to get on base for Soriano to give that guess hitting stud Sori a chance to hit one far. Instead he swung at the first pitch, and what the first live pitch he has seen in a while too

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree with you both

With Ward out, our bench looks suddenly very thin (not in terms of what’s there, but in terms of how Lou is using it). I think with Ward DL’d we should have brought up both Hoffpauir and Murton and sent Fontenot down. I like Murton in that situation a lot better than Fontenot. For that matter… where was Ronny?

by DGU on May 21, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

warming the pine.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ascanio impressed me as a genuine resource

He is a bit wild with his fastball which is good. His bender which also is his off speed is not as tight as Marmol but appears to be solid. He didn’t choke with MOB and got out of the innings.

His fastball has rising movement so it is not a straight 4 seamer. He will learn a few things in the bullpen and be good.

Edmonds, needs to get a couple of hits, a big one to help everything. Also DLee would be good to have a couple of days off.

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 21, 2008 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Disagree on Lee

just when he starts swinging it a bit better. Let him has his day off tomorrow on his actual day off.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Edmonds-O-Meter updated

argh

Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 4-2 (.667), DRS: 1

by joeschmitt on May 21, 2008 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

what does

DRS: 1 mean?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

defensive runs saved (I think)

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 4-2 (.667), DRS: 1

by joeschmitt on May 21, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you told me in April that we'd be 10 games over .500 right now

I would be totally happy if not ecstatic.

Cubs cocktail: Add equal amounts of devotion and stubbornness over ice, stir and serve.

by Fukumania on May 21, 2008 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

And perspective has returned

thank you! and I completely agree. We are 10 games over .500 and playing generally good baseball. Couldn’t be [much] happier right now :).

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have my moments.

Cubs cocktail: Add equal amounts of devotion and stubbornness over ice, stir and serve.

by Fukumania on May 21, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check out dillweed Dayn Perry from Fox (Card fan I think)

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8159418/Numbers-paint-a-confusing-picture-for-Cubs

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That was actually somewhat reasonable...

... coming from Perry, who IS a Cardinals fan.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what was wrong with that article?

pretty much nailed the good and bad about the Cubs so far.

Before Edmonds: 24-16, (.600); With Edmonds: 4-2 (.667), DRS: 1

by joeschmitt on May 21, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

His stat research was quite good, but...

... this bugged me a little—even if it’s true:

“Overall, you’ve got a team that’s not capable of maintaining their current 100-win pace. As well, if those pitching concerns come to be realized, then the Cubs will have problems repeating as division champs in the suddenly respectable NL Central. “

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A little more research shows

it’s not all Marmol in the bullpen. The Cubs as a team rank third in the majors and second in the NL in ERA from the 7th inn on @ 3.09 as of right now.

Let’s not get too worked up about nothing….every team has questions. There are many other teams worse off than us.

FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!

by tony412 on May 21, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks to Perry

for that brief summary of where the Cubs stand (which we already know)........1ST PLACE! The power of Now.

FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!

by tony412 on May 21, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scary but true

If Marmol breaks down, good chances are so will the Cubs. That could have a domino effect. Frightening thought.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

just a question, malicedoom--

Are you capable of posting anything positive? ever?

Or are you just living up to your handle?

no hard feelings—I just don’t feel like i’ve ever read an optimistic post from you…

by mrbubs on May 21, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

You think? I didn’t mean for it to come across that way – just trying to converse. I’m personally THRILLED the Cubbies are doing as well as they are so far this year. :)

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That said

I’m scared to death we’re (ALREADY) overusing Marmol.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe he'd have a better attitude if he changed his user name to benevolencehope.

Nanika Ga Okoru!

Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.

by dat cubfan daver on May 21, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

we may not be as good without Marmol, but Ascanio looked good last night and it is getting to that point in the season where Howry starts getting better. I think we could survive for a little while without Marmol, and probably still take the division

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we've all noticed the overuse of Marmol....

...yes?

Cubdom is in a buzz about Ascanio last night, but I saw a guy come into the game and immediately get himself in trouble-then get out of it. His next inning he had a couple bullets hit off of him. He struck out Berkman-but other than that, I thought he was quite average…Howry-ish.

BBWAA's name should be changed to "Power in the hands of Fools"

by cubfever7 on May 21, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

I agree that Marmol is getting dangerously close to overuse, if he isn’t already there.

But, as you say, while Asciano and Howry are not at Marmol’s level, I think they will be able to reduce Marmol’s use in the coming months

"Very adroit in the outfield." - Lou, on Dome

by gwood on May 21, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

he got out of it, tho.

I’d be willing to give him another chance. Not in a critical moment, but another chance nonetheless.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a reasonable analysis of the Cubs...

but what it neglects to discuss is the other half of the equation. How well the Cubs play will only partly determine our playoff chances. The same information needs to be considered for the Cards, Astros, and Brewers. The Cubs aren’t competing with the D-Backs to get to the playoffs. They’re competing with those other three (and maybe the Reds and Pirates). Those teams have big flaws too. If we can get to the playoffs, then we can talk about the pitching.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course, way too early to think about playoffs...

...but that Arizona sweep this year sure did feel good for starters.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

we don't have to win 100 games

we just have to win enough.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How many games over .500 do you think...

...the Cubs will be at the All-Star break?

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

In all honesty?

I’d be happy with 10 over at the break.

Cubs cocktail: Add equal amounts of devotion and stubbornness over ice, stir and serve.

by Fukumania on May 21, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

10 over at season's end may be enough...

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

10 over now

so why not 10? We can play .500 ball. Personally, I expect the Cubs to do better than that, so why not 15 over?

FU-KU-DOH-MEH! clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!!!!

by tony412 on May 21, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That would be nice, but I'm being realistic.

There will be a losing streak or two to go along with a few more winning streaks.

If we can go .500 in between those, I think we can at LEAST win the wildcard with 10 over or so.

I’d love to be 15 over, however.

Cubs cocktail: Add equal amounts of devotion and stubbornness over ice, stir and serve.

by Fukumania on May 21, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perspective.

Here’s where the five playoff teams since 1984 stood at the All-Star break:

2007: 44-43, 2nd, -4.5
2003: 47-47, 3rd, -3
1998: 48-39, 2nd, -5 (2nd wild card, -3)
1989: 47-39, 2nd, -1.5
1984: 48-36, 2nd, -0.5

So NONE of those teams was in first place or leading any race at the ASB. This team ought to be comfortably in front by then.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, as long as they aren't comfortably numb...

RIMSHOT!

Nanika Ga Okoru!

Oh, and remember, folks: Alfonso Soriano is NOT batting leadoff. He's batting first.

by dat cubfan daver on May 21, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

you mean

ba-bam tsssssssssssssssssssss

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ba-bum

innit? Which makes sense. :P

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think MDBNIU

uses ba-bam tsss…..?

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I screwed up

he uses

ba-bum tsss

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No...

ba-bum, tssss…and then he calles me Schecky…

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 21, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Have you seen his new sig? Too funny!

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I

I has a blog.

by cwyers on May 21, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yay, butterfingers.

What I meant to say was:

“I’m a magician!”

I has a blog.

by cwyers on May 21, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hi, Schecky!

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Too cool!

"Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball." - Jacque Barzun

by Bump Bailey on May 21, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All I care about

is being #1 in the division. I don’t care if it’s by one game, a half game, or twenty games. Certainly, twenty is more fun, but making the post is what we must do to win a WS.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 21, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think we were as much as 11 over all of last year

I think the most we ever were was 10 at one point.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True.

The Cubs have not been more than 10 games over since the last day of the 2004 season.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 21, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

agree with al

...but you’re gonna lose some games and i’m pretty happy considering we have one of the records in all of major league baseball

by columbusOHcubsfan on May 21, 2008 1:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...it just would have felt better for me if this one would have been a laugher...like 10-2.

The close ones make it harder to accept.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 21, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Still, what a great feelling...

...when you need to double-take on the Cubs and go “Wait… they LOST? Really?” Nice for it to (so far) be the exception to the rule. GO CUBS!

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

GO CUBS!!!!!!!!

by columbusOHcubsfan on May 21, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is anyone else sick

of 670 The Score doing those promos where Stoney tells you what might happens and it happens? Everytime Farmer says “You were saying” Well what he was saying Ed is one of the constant predictions he makes and occasionaly gets right.

We all know my hate, I apologize.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 1:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Raising hand (in agreement)

Thanks, Steve. We know you can predict the future. You are God. We get it. LOL

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stoney sure nailed the Fuld prediction...

oh wait.

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL - yeah, and the "Wood will NEVER close" one too.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He also said Soto

was an average defensive catcher who’s weight would force him to first base.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still think Steve's brilliant...

...but he sure can hold a grudge against some guys.

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

He can hold a grudge. Knows a lot about baseball, but his ego got in the way.

by Shanghai Badger on May 21, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I am.

I’m also sick of Famer offering the brilliant insight “He likes the first pitch,” on EVERY SINGLE DAMN BATTER IN F-N GAME.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...tell that to Adam Greenberg.

As I've told you before, I never repeat myself.

by santoswoodenlegs on May 21, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL - - what ever happened to Adam?

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Toiling somewhere in the minors...

He was called up more as a statement to the MLB team and to the other prospects, basically saying “if you don’t want to play hard, we’ll bring in somebody who does.”

by SouthernCub on May 21, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greenberg

He started the year in Bridgeport Connecticut Bluefish of the Independent Leauge. About 15 minutes from me, I was able to get to one game. He was doing well and signed with Angles and sent AA Little Rock about 2 weeks ago

I bleed double blue Cubbies & NY Rangers

by parrotinct on May 21, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dont get me started on Farmer

Alright Im started. He has thing annoying thing he does when the team is behind by lets say 4, 5 6 runs. Lets say theyre down 6 and and Thome walks. He will say something like “A bomb here and the Sox are within a slam!!!”

Too surly men working together, just a matter of time before one punches the other out. Then again there is Hawk who dissapears when the team is losing.

"Hey.....Cubs win!!!" ---Harry
"Swung on belted!!!"---Chip

by Hammer on May 21, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reminds me of something funny Harry said one time...

Cubs were down by a ton and someone (Cub) hit one out – didn’t mean much.

And Harry: “Boy I wish we would have had about seven men on base.”

Wait a minute... who am I here?

by malicedoom on May 21, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Funniest thing I heard Harry say:

Cubs are down a run, bottom of nine, Dunston, IIRC, comes up and Harry says a homer hear would be nice. Dunston promptly pops up the first pitch he sees to SS, and Harry blurts out, “Home run in a telephone booth!” Hi-larious.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 21, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs