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Feel Better Now? - Cubs 12, Pirates 3

The Cubs started hitting almost the very second that the Pirates' Zach Duke took the mound and didn't stop all night, registering nineteen hits, scoring in seven of the nine innings and blowing out the Pirates 12-3 in a game that wasn't even that close. The Cubs now lead the major leagues in OBA and runs (runs by a wide margin, 279-267 over the 2nd-ranked Red Sox and Rangers), and are second in walks and OPS.

Yes, this is the Cubs we're talking about. You are not dreaming. This is really happening.

Everyone hit, and I mean literally everyone, with the exception of Geovany Soto, who went 0-for-4. (Hey, at least he picked a day when everyone else hit to have a bad day.) Who can we single out as a hitting hero of the night, when there were so many? Reed Johnson put the game out of reach with his three-run HR in the fifth, which made a 5-0 game into an 8-0 game. Johnson also had two doubles and totalled four RBI. Aramis Ramirez had three hits and scored three runs. Derrek Lee had two RBI.

It's clear that the injury that Alfonso Soriano suffered in April against the Reds wasn't totally healed when he came back, and still isn't totally healed. It may have been made worse during his first at-bat; you could clearly see him rounding first and hurting as he came into second base, and he left the game early -- I assume the club will say that was "as a precaution", but it would not surprise me to see Soriano have another DL stint. Micah Hoffpauir replaced him in LF, making one defensive play without incident. Speaking of players playing out of position, Mark DeRosa started in RF last night. I know he's played there before (and he had two hits and three RBI), but he misplayed one ball -- the one that hit high off the wall. Nate McLouth wound up on third. DeRosa went up high to try to catch the ball, but there's no way he could have; what he should have done, once he realized the ball was over his head, was to pull up and wait for the bounce. It didn't matter, as the runs would have scored anyway, and McLouth never did -- but this is what you'd see a lot of if Hoffpauir were to play RF on a regular basis.

So please, Lou. Don't. The team's winning the way things are. It ain't broke. Don't fix it.

Carlos Zambrano was outstanding last night. In addition to throwing seven strong innings, walking only one and allowing only the two runs that scored on McLouth's triple, he had a career-high four hits, driving in two runs and scoring once and raising his season batting average to .343. The best thing about Z's hitting last night was that he didn't try to smash home runs into the Allegheny River beyond the RF wall; instead, he had quality AB and took good swings and his four singles were quite productive. (It was also very smart of Z to run way out of the way in the fifth when Soriano hit into a double play.) Obviously, also, there's nothing wrong physically with Z, and he notes his changed pitching style this year as one of the reasons for his great start:

Zambrano walked one batter, and has cut down the number of free passes.

"The whole year, the key has been to throw strikes, first-pitch strikes, and be able to throw good pitches when I'm in trouble," Zambrano said. "That's the key all year long.

"When I feel good, I can challenge the hitter and I can throw my pitches for strikes and be ahead in the count," he said. "I'm not a machine, and sometimes I don't feel good and have to deal with neck pain or something, or my leg doesn't feel good that day, or I'm opening up too soon. I try to do the best to compete and do my job."

A-freakin-men, Z. Keep up the great work. Incidentally, believe it or not, that was the first four-hit game by a Cubs pitcher in almost 44 years -- since July 23, 1964, when a 37-year-old Lew Burdette had two singles, a triple and a HR in leading the Cubs to a 13-4 blowout of the Giants in San Francisco.

Jose Ascanio allowed his first run as a Cub, but still threw a decent inning, and Kerry Wood, who hadn't pitched since Sunday, had an efficient (10 pitches, 9 strikes) 9th inning, so he should be available today. The rest of the bullpen got another day off, good news for pitchers who have teetered on the edge of overuse this year.

Some of you who were there can probably tell me better, but it seemed as if it were a hugely pro-Cub crowd last night; the Pirates are 29th in MLB attendance, averaging only 15,583 before last night. The 32,656 announced last night more than doubled that, and I'd expect that to continue all weekend.

So enjoy. After 48 games the Cubs have still not lost more than two in a row this season, the mark of a team that can pick up and start winning again even after a couple of tough defeats like the last two in Houston. Yes, the schedule so far this year has been ridiculous, but I, for one, am going to miss the Pirates and their McDonald's worker jerseys after this weekend.

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"McDonald's worker jerseys"

Those orange tunics they wear over the black long sleeved shirts? Agreed, they look pretty ridic.
I remember a criticism of the Sox uniforms back in the ‘70s when they had the short pants: “You look sharp, you play sharp… you look sloppy, you play sloppy.”

by ChipSet on May 24, 2008 8:08 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thank you scheduler

So the schedule is front-loaded with Pittsburgh; what’s wrong with that, exactly? Seems to have given us a big head start…

by santo4hof on May 24, 2008 8:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it means

we have a harder schedule later; more inclined to push us into slumping.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily.

We haven’t played the Giants yet, still have one series left with the Nats and Padres and Rockies, and you don’t really think the Marlins are this good, do you?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

who is going to be easier

than the Bucs?

If that’s not the problem with the schedule, what is, other than lack of balance?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't know who's going to be "easier".

As has been noted, the Pirates have played the rest of the NL pretty well; they are, for example, 5-2 against the Braves, and 3-0 against the Reds and Giants.

Some years teams just have other teams’ numbers. It’s apparent the Cubs have it over the Pirates this year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't matter how good or bad the Marlins are

They have our number, need I remind you of a trip down there last September.

Missouri Tigers 2008 Cotton Bowl Champs

by nji232 on May 24, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was last year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Z's average

is higher than every Pirate in the lineup last night. I suspect we’ll see him pitch hit more.

In another note, Pie went 0-4 last night lowering his average to .097 (3-31) since his demotion. It was his first game at “home” in Des Moines. If this doesn’t improve dramatically we may never see him again in ‘08.

This is only the beginning....Lou Pinella end of '07 season and Chicago Transit Authority (the band when they were really good).

by mrcubsfan on May 24, 2008 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good

Pie is not a long term solution in CF and I won’t cry if he doesn’t get another shot. It will just mean that the Cubs will have to realize sooner rather than later that they have to do something about CF. If Pie is ever traded and gets to play everyday for another ML team then we will be able to revisit the argument and see who was “right”.

Some people will blame the Cubs handling of Pie if he continues to struggle in AAA. To all these people I will remind them that this version of Pie is the same version of Pie we saw in the winter league in the Dominican Republic.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pie stats in the dominican

AB: 91
AVG: .209
OBP: .242
SLG: .319
OPS: .561

Any of these numbers seem familiar?

by Luis on May 24, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have it the exact numbers but

I remember at one point the average OPS being around .650-.675 or something like that. Pie was well below average anyway you look at it.

Fact is, Pie was pitched in the Dominican like he was pitched in the majors. I posted about it here in BCB.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I linked to Pie's team site below and You can go to the league page from there.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct

I mistakenly opened the stats for the 2004 season thinking they were the ones for this year.

Obviously a .684 OPS is a lot better than .560. Perhaps I’m biased against Pie. I understand the rationale in giving him more of a shot and normally I’d agree with it. But not with Pie. Time will tell.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but Pie is who we got

time only tells IF he gets his shot.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That .650 average is important context.

There were other big name stars down in the Caribbean who also put up ugly #s.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

91 AB's.

That’s quite a robust sample size you’ve got there. All that tells me is that he never really got a shot down there, either.

This also needs some context…..

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everything is small

Let’s give every minor leaguer with good AAA stats 3,000 ABs before we even consider making a judgment.

...

by Luis on May 24, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

how about 250?

That’s 250 in a row, not ten here and six there etc etc etc.

No one’s asking for 3k at bats. that’s hyperbole.

Just give the boy a SHOT.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's what we call drawing an extreme and unwarranted conclusion,

and Pie needs more than the 63 AB’s he got this year, unless your enamoured of handing more AB’s to the -15 OPS+’ing Edmonds.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm happy with the Cubs

Exploring other options as I don’t think Pie will be anything much better than Patterson. With Pie 63 ABs from this year, plus what he did last year plus what I saw in the Dominican plus his overall approach to hitting, that is enough for me. It was enough for Lou. I understand is not enough for a lot of people here. We disagree. Another hitter, with another makeup, I don’t make my decision nearly as quickly.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least Patterson got a chance to fail.

He played 153 games at age 22 in 2002.

Pie has never started more than nine games in a row, and that was last year.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lastings Milledge

Wasn’t Milledge a lot more hyped than Pie?

The Mets probably gave Milledge 56 games in 2006 and 59 games in 2007 and they gave up on him. Sometimes you make or have to make your decisions on smaller samples than what you’d like.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But, yet... the Cubs still never gave up on Cedeno

And, he’s finally starting to hit.

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Milledge has makeup issues

that caused the Mets to give up on him. Pie has excellent makeup. These are very different situations.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, you never see a glare on Pie's skin in front of the camera

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

excellent

mascara, too.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We absolutely need to do a better job of internal scouting

The Cubs have fallen in love with a number of their top prospects, identified them as untouchable during trade talks… and then watched them fail at the major league level.

Then, there a scenarios like the Ryan Theriot story: they tried to make Theriot a switch hitter… and wasted a good couple of seasons doing that. When they finally pulled the plug on that, he got to the bigs pretty quickly. He should’ve been here much earlier.

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ummmm....

According to MLB’s Winter League site, these are Pie’s Dominican League numbers for 2007-2008 for Los Tigres de Licey, who won the Carribean Series Title:

127 AB, .244/.314/.370, 2 HR, 14 RBI, 11 BB, 30 K, 6 SB

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's not terrible, either.

too many Ks, not enough walks. But I’d take .250 out of the lad for a year if it meant he started every game. Even in a platoon.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Especially when you take

his defense into account with that average.

by inukjim on May 24, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the team average for Licey:

.250/.315/.334
Pie was almost right in line with the team averages, on a team that won the league title.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Elijah Dukes hit .236 in that league....

He and Pie are both 23 years old…

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL. Oneli Perez... 12 saves and a 0.52 ERA in 17 innings

Then, he gets to AAA Charlotte, and gets SHELLED with a 9+ ERA in 17 innings… and consequently waived by the White Sox.

Go figure…

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just looking at some of the young prospects

Who played there… for comparison

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dukes and Pie are radically different players.

and radically different sorts of people. There is no comparison.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edwin Encarnacion hit .228

Rafael Furcal, however, hit a robust .367

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And Eric Aybar hit .252

while Jose Guillen got nary a hit.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His last full season at AAA warrant his subsequent MLB promos.

His numbers against MLB RHP are borderline tolerable given his defense his age, and that the team is getting enough offense right now to carry him. If his slugging v. RHP were normal then he never would have lost his job, but he did and it’s his own fault.

There is no reason to give up on him now. It doesn’t cost us anything to give him another shot with the MLB club, but if the team thinks it better that he earn that next shot then I have no problem with leaving him in the minors for the rest of the season if that’s what it takes.

No trades are going to happen now and unless you get a great deal to improve the club at the deadline by including Pie in that deal then he stays with us. There is no reason to conclude that he’s done or he needs to go at this point.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Well put.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never felt that bad initially, however...

this is PGH we’re talking about. The only general concern that I hope gets improved upon as the season progresses is this. Versus PGH, 9-1; the rest of the NL, 20-18. I know, I know, you’re supposed to beat up on the bad teams. Fine. But against the teams closest to the Cubs (over the full season, not just recently), the Cubs are 4-8. That must improve.

Otherwise, the OBP, walks, runs and offence in general is great. They now have to translate all that good stuff into a higher number in the “W” column against all their opponents.

OK, onwards and upwards. Get the win today and look forward to tomorrow.

As for Fonzie, I’m hoping he’s just still stiff. Lou on SportsRise this morning spoke of a lack of confidence in the legs’ strength. Could be a smoke screen though. So if he’s just a little lame, let him play through it. If there’s an injury risk, let him sit out. These next games and perhaps even some of the upcoming home stand (LA and Col) could be opportunities to let him rest.

by blackhawk24 on May 24, 2008 8:29 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

With leg injuries,

that’s not all that uncommon. It takes some time before you can trust that leg again. If it’s that, he’s just going to have to get over that mental hurdle. I suspect, however, that Sori may be covering for the fact that he’s just not healed yet.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you're right

But Fonzie seems a little mentally “fragile”. He’s a little afraid of outfield walls, and seemed pretty awful running last night. Maybe he’s still hurt. If so, get out of the lineup until you’re healed. But his mental fragility in running and fielding near the warning track is a little disconcerting.

by zevkalman on May 24, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't buy this psychoanalysis

angle on any of the Cubs. Not with Hill, not with Z, and not with Fonzie. He’s not afraid of walls or any such nonsense. When your leg gives out on you, it takes a long time until you trust it again, and that’s not being scared, it’s being cautious. He’s either stiff, still hurt, or still recovering, but he’s not afraid of anything and he’s not mentally fragile.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 9:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

this year

except for the week after he came off the DL, he’s been very willing to go backwards towards the wall.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe So

Last year it seemed Sori was tentative of outfield walls and I would tend to agree with Zev on that basis. However let’s see what a healthy Sori does this year – could be he just needed to get used to playing in Wrigley.

I’ll also say that when you’ve been hurt it’s natural to favor the arm/leg/knee you injured and be hesitant to go all out.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he did that last year as well

came back early from the leg injury, and never really revealed the wrist problems till after it was all over.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but the Pirates are 21-17

against the rest of the league. And I don’t think that anybody is reading too deeply into that. At this point, I’m not going to worry much about it.

by Short4Fanatic on May 24, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

June will be a decisive month

we don’t play anyone in our division in June. It’s fun to win, but when we only play weak teams we are not being tested enough. Let’s hope we get these types of wins next month.

by coral on May 24, 2008 8:42 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Congratulations, Micah! Only 3 more good appearances and you will have won a starting job until the trade deadline!

Bruce Miles reports Lou saying, “I was pleased with [Micah’s] 2 hits the other day. Like I said after the ballgame, and I meant it, we’ve got to get a left-hand bat in there that can drive the ball. If this young man can do that, yeah, we’ll get him some playing time, and we’ll have to make some adjustments.”

Lou is still set on needing a “left-hand bat… that can drive the ball.” This is why Eric Patterson is not an option; this is why Felix Pie is not (and never was) an option. Lou is looking for a slugger. How many LH sluggers are there who play CF beyond Jim Edmonds? (And the move to Micah seems to suggest Lou’s done with Edmonds.) Maybe Milton Bradley would count and be available at the deadline. But that’s a dicey option for numerous reasons.

So, basically what this means is that Fukudome is being moved to CF and to #2 in the batting order and we are spending our trade chips, not on a pitcher, but on a lefty slugger.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 8:44 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This really is Lou's White Whale.

I don’t understand the obsession with having a lefty slugger in a lineup that is already near the top of every major offensive category. It boggles the mind. And now he’s going to weaken the defense in his pursuit of his lefty that can drive the ball. Ye gods.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's tied to Lou's disappointment with Fukudome

Preseason, Lou was talking about Dome batting 3rd, 4th, or 5th. But Dome has not driven the ball the way Lou wants. Dome looks right now to be a #2 hitter and this is really irritating Lou, because he can’t move Dome to #2 and still break up the righties with the roster he has. But he also doesn’t want to leave Dome at #5.

It’s still possible that Dome will adjust more and begin to drive the ball regularly by the end of the season, but Lou doesn’t go in for long-term evaluations of players. In his mind Dome is a #2 hitter, and an inferior one at that because of his lack of speed.

Complicating this is Soto’s emergence. What LH hitter hits well enough to justify hitting before Soto in the lineup? That’s why I think we are more likely to trade for a name (Griffey) than a guy with upside.

At some point you just have to say, “Our lineup is so hard to ‘balance’ because everyone is hitting well in their own way and that’s a good ‘problem’.” Al is right, the Cubs shouldn’t “fix” it.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Lou’s creating a problem where there wasn’t one to begin with.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

100% agreed.

The team is hitting the ball all over the place and the Cubs are playing .600 ball and he wants to screw with it?

I like Lou, but this obsession is unhealthy.

It’d be solved if Edmonds would hit, but I won’t hold my breath waiting for that to happen.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

Perhaps Lou is looking at the bigger picture. I certainly think that’s the case. And if it is, now is the time you can do things about it, not later in the playoff after you’ve been shut down by tough RH pitchers.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if you face a team that has a lot of LH pitchers?

Seriously, you’re saying that ONE lefthanded hitter is the difference between winning a playoff series and not?

Nonsense.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nonesense?

First question: if you face a team that has a lot of LH pitchers the Cubs can and will fill the lineup with RH hitters already on the team.

Second comment: one good LH power hitter makes your club have a better shot. And having a better shot is all you can ask for. Nothing is guaranteed. It makes sense to try to do something about before and not after. Lou is being proactive and I personally agree with him.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

It really depends on WHO this LH power hitter is, how you fit him into the lineup and the defense, and what you have to give up to get him.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is true

And we probably won’t be able to answer this question one way or the other until or near the trade deadline.

All I’m saying is the Cubs (or Piniella) has identified a problem and may push the Cubs in a direction that will make them a better overall team. I’m happy that they are not waiting to hit a slump to think of getting better, for now and for the possible playoffs.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, no, no

If we get locked into thinking we have a problem that is “Need LH Power Hitter” then we start looking for solutions that end up looking like Jim Edmonds. We are dangerously close to trading Cinci a player who will help them for years just to have the right to watch Ken Griffey make outs before Soto hits.

Sure, it’s nice to upgrade our lineup. The problem is that Lou’s not talking about upgrading the lineup. He’s talking about getting a certain type of hitter, who, when I look at what is likely to be available in 2008, is very likely to DOWNGRADE the lineup. Is playing Jim Edmonds an upgrade over the other options we had available (and I’m not even talking about Pie)? No. Is playing Hoffpaiur in RF an upgraged over the other options we have available? No. They’re just LH bats who MIGHT have some pop.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we focus on improving the rotation please?

And add a real quality glove on the bench for the middle-infield late inning defensive replacement?

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

When you convince yourself that you have to do something, you back yourself into a corner. And you pave the way to doing something stupid so that you get a player that fits a certain stereotype, regardless of whether or not he’s an actual upgrade to your team.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not exactly

Fukudome was a product of this exact type of thinking. The Cubs backed themselves into a corner in terms of what they wanted for RF and actually got it.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, they did not get it.

See, we look at Dome’s OBP and see a success. But Lou thought he was getting a 4/5 hitter and he did not get the power he thought he was getting. Remember, pre-season, we were looking for a Coco Crisp or a Brian Roberts, a top of the order lefty. Now, we are looking for a Southpaw Slugger. This is because Dome is now seen as the top of the order lefty and the 4/5 hole needs to be filled.

And, again, the biggest point is – who is out there to get? Let’s say you are right and we identified a need and got a player who matched that need. Now, who matches the current “need”? I don’t see a player out there who is a legitimate upgrade without us paying lots in trade cost. And the players most likely to be available are washed up vets with good reputations but minimal 2008 results.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Lou is seeing a short series weakness

My thinking is that Lou knows that in the post season the Cubs need a power LH bat against a strong RHP. Fukudome is obvious either leadoff or #2 and we have seen him in that slot once already with Hoffpauir in the lineup. Question is where can Micah play? RF?

This is why I think at trading deadline the Cubs will be willing to move Fukudome to CF. Wil the Reds deal Dunn or Griffey? And what cost? Is Dunn a liability in RF?

Piniella: "This is a tougher job than I thought it would be, I'm going to be honest with you."

by Ivy Walls on May 24, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are Derrek Lee and Aramis Ramirez unable to hit RHP?

Have I been watching the wrong team? Are we struggling to beat RHP? Was it some other team that beat Jake Peavy like a drum? Was it some other team that sent Jeff Suppan’s ERA into orbit and got 4 runs off of Ben Sheets in 5 innings?

So, which of our young pitchers do you want to see in Cinci uniforms for the next 3-5 years to get our lefty slugger?

by DGU on May 24, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.

Here, I have the guy we could go get: Brad Wilkerson.

I don’t know what’s happened to this guy over the last couple years; his averages have been dropping, but he did hit 20 HR in 338 AB last year.

He hit a grand slam today. I’ll bet you could get him cheap. At least he can actually play right field, unlike Micah Hoffpauir.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We could've had him for free

when the M’s DFA’d him, but we passed and went for Jim Edmonds.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same Here

as far as disappointed we didn’t grab Wilkerson when he was DFA’d.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

probably adam dunn power

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, how many 40-HR corner men are available?

Dunn? and? just Dunn? How much will Dunn cost? Maybe Gallagher and Hill would cut it.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dome had over 100 RBIs in '05 and '06 in Japan

In just roughly 140 games.

In ‘07, he was hurt and played about half a season… had 48 RBIs

http://japanesebaseball.com/players/player.jsp?PlayerID=1064

I think the guy can hit with power… but, I also think he’s hitting into his “new role” on this team.

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Japanese players

Have historically seen their biggest dropoff in the slugging department. I think Fukudome will probably improve his power as he gets more at bats (maybe next year) but I wouldn’t expect a big improvement. Still, he is incredibly valuable to this team the way he is performing right now.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

He may not hit a lot of HR, but he’s on pace for 40 doubles and maybe 7-8 triples. I don’t have a problem with that.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Double-power can hit 5th for us, when it's coupled with a .400 OBP.

It’s not traditional, but it doesn’t break up the rally from DLee through to the end of the lineup, and that’s most important. Better to have Dome’s .400 OBP stuck between Aramis and Soto than to trade for a guy who may have higher SLG, but will also make more outs. Where do we find a LH power hitter whose OBP is high enough to hit before Soto?

by DGU on May 24, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cincy

big donkey

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of Griffey

Phil Rogers wrote this today for the Trib. Could be fun to get Griffey in CF for a playoff run.

Don’t discount the possibility of trades. Cincinnati is shopping both Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr. in hopes of clearing room for Jay Bruce, who is hitting .368 with 10 home runs in Triple A. Griffey, stuck at 598, isn’t likely to be dealt before he hits his 600th homer.

I haz show: http://hotbeans.wordpress.com

by digitalbenjamin on May 24, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reminder...

... Griffey’s making a gazillion dollars, and if he gets traded, he has a metricbuttloadgazillion dollar option that kicks in for 2009.

That’s not worth it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that'd be hysterical

in fact, we could set up little canisters all around Wrigley – “Help Save Junior’s Option!”. Get a picture of Griffey with his hat on backwards and a sad eyes puppy dog look on his face. I’m sure Fifth Third Bank or some other bank would love to get in on the promotion. I probably have at least a couple hundred dollars in pennies stashed around somewhere – I’d gladly turn mine in.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 24, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a metric buttload of pennies.

Don’t know who could lift it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Griffey has lost all his power.

He is on the Jim Edmonds slide, just a year behind.

by californiachicagoan on May 24, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Balance for Balance's Sake

You see this a lot with managers of the old-school mindset: “Gotta have a LH starter…gotta have a mix of RH and LH in the batting order…”

This armchair manager-GM would suggest that what matters is having the nine best hitters in their proper lineup spots and your five best starters in the rotation, as determined by stats and not which side they use to bat/throw.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Piniella is not stupid

He is pushing management in the right direction. A LH power bat is certainly very important for this team. When facing tough righties, which would become a bigger issue if the Cubs make the playoffs again, you certainly would benefit greatly if you had another LH power bat in this lineup.

by Luis on May 24, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Better to have the better hitters

than to have a “balance” that makes more sense in theory than in reality. Ideally, right now, if the Cubs weren’t going to try Pie, we’d be playing Ronny Cedeno, either in the IF with DeRosa in RF, or in CF, depending on which alignment made the most defensive sense to the Cubs’ scouts. That would give us a chance to see what we really have in the new Cedeno. To see what we really have in Hoffpaiur is a 1-1000 longshot that only makes sense when a LH bat is your white whale.

So, let’s say this really is the right direction. Who are you going to get by trade and what is he going to cost?

by DGU on May 24, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bob Brenly

said that he thought Dome would be BETTER in Center than in right, because it’s easier to get a read on the ball, etc.

Does anyone else agree with that?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Put Big Z in right field... problem solved:)

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

given the way Z hits

I’m glad he wants to stay a starting pitcher, but I bet he could play one of teh OF corners. :D

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No.

That’s simply absurd.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why?

I’m asking seriously, because the man has managed a team to the WS; why is he wrong and you right?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look at the majors.

You’ll find the average center fielder hits worse than the average corner outfielder. You’ll find that holds true, for the most part, through the history of organized baseball.

Why do teams use inferior hitters in center field? Because it’s harder to find capable defensive center fielders.

And when we look at players who play both the corners and center, we see their defense decline in center compared to the corners.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

um! Griffey, mantle, dimaggio, cobb, andrew jones, mays, puckett, speaker all were great hitting center fielders,who played with inferior corner men.

by nks6911 on May 24, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's your point?

The arguement is, on the whole, center fielders hit worse than corner outfielders. The fact that you’ve got five Hall of Famers and two guys who will probably make it into the hall that played center field and hit well doesn’t exactly disprove my arguement. In fact, the fact that a list of center fielders who outhit their corner men is also a list of Hall of Fame center fielders kinda proves my point, don’t you think?

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If there are people that still don't believe me...

...take a look at what position a player plays when he’s drafted, compared to where he makes his debut in the majors. Look at what position a player plays his rookie season compared to what position he plays his last season.

You see center fielders moved out to the corners a lot more than you see corner men moved to the centers. Why? Because players who can handle center field when they’re younger, or against lesser competition, can’t necessarily handle it as their skills decline or against tougher competition. They move out to the corners – which tells us that major league teams view those positions as easier to play.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok, but

WHY is center harder?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because the center fielder has the most ground to cover.

The center fielder is the captain of the outfield, and thus is responsible for backing up plays by the right and left fielder, for calling them off of balls in his area of responsibility – center fielders are expected to make plays in left-center and in right-center, wheras corner men only cover one of those zones.

If you have a bad (read: low range) center fielder, you make all of your other fielders look worse as well, because more balls are falling in the gaps for hits. It’s a lot easier for a premium center fielder to cover for the mistakes of the corner outfielders than it is to get two good corner fielders to cover for the deficiencies of your center fielder.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok.

Now, can Dome do it? He played center for a little before, right?

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion, Dome can handle center field.

He has the tools and athleticism to play an average (or slightly above) center field – but you’re talking a downgrade of about 10 runs a season from his defense in right field, as well as an additional downgrade based upon whoever is taking over right field and losing what defensive premium we had in center already.

Here’s how the chaining works:

1. You remove the current Cubs center fielders – Reedmonds are basically an average fielder; any positive contributions defensively we were getting out of center field are now down in Iowa. If you’re feeling charitable towards Cubs management, you ignore this because Pie isn’t going to play anyways. I don’t feel like being charitable – you lose maybe 10 runs defensively from the average center fielder in a season by replacing a Pie/Johnson platoon.
2. You replace this with Dome’s defense in center field, which is roughly average, so it’s a wash here.
3. You lose Dome’s defense in right field, roughly 10 runs a season.
4. You replaced Dome’s defense in right field with some sad sack of a defensive outfielder – if you’re lucky, someone like Dunn that hits the ball well; if you’re not lucky, someone like Hoffpauir that hits like a second baseman. Optimistically you’re five runs below average; you could easily get to -10 or, hell, -20, depending on who you get.

So, if we take the optimistic assumption for right field defense, we’re talking a loss of 25 runs on defense. So for Hoffpauir, Dunn, Bonds, etc. to provide an upgrade over a Pie/Johnson platoon, he has to provide at least 25 additional runs on offense compared to them. Adam Dunn, for example, is probably a -10 defensively out in right, so now he needs to provide 30 runs on offense above a Pie/Johnson platoon.

Dunn can do that; Bonds can probably do that, too. But Hoffpauir probably can’t, and you have to add in salary/team chemistry/trade bait costs as well when you’re talking about making a trade or an acquisition.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said.

Again, I could say this in one sentence:

The team is winning and scoring buckets of runs with the lineup we have; thus, why screw with it?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dare I say it?

Is the answer to your question, “Because the biggest problem on the 2008 Cubs is the manager’s inability to identify, appreciate, and cultivate the talent he has?”

by DGU on May 24, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the other hand

Under this manager, the team is ten games over .500 and in first place. If he can do that without identifying, appreciating and cultivating the talent he has, what difference does it make?

by azjazzman on May 24, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Part of what I'm suggesting

is that we don’t have any big problems. We’re a good team. The biggest problem is one Lou is imagining. Lou’s done very well with this club. Hendry has done very well. But sometimes overmanaging can make things worse.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LSA

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the anticipated cost in wins

of loss of 25 defensive runs?

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats just because you need speed in center

and speed usually means little guy w/o a huge bat

by californiachicagoan on May 24, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Center field is definitely more challenging than the corners.

As far as “reads” are concerned, I don’t get Brenly’s comment at all. I didn’t hear it, but judging or reading fly balls in center is generally more difficult. Center fielders need more range (speed+read), they need a strong arm and their glove is more emphasized, if for no other reason than they will get something like 40+% more plays than the other outfielders. If they can hit well you get….Mantle, Mays, etc.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on May 24, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brenley

said that Dome would be good in center because it’s easier to get a read off the bat, you can tell if the swing was ahead or behind the pitch…

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would say that statement is true but...

...really applies to balls hit to left and right. In other words, they see the total outfield more clearly because of where they are positioned. Balls hit more directly at them are harder to read for the same reason- and are harder to play than a ball hit directly at a corner outfielder. But I’m not going to argue with Brenly who knows tons more about the game than I do. I do think Fukudome would be a very good center fielder though.

"Baseball is like church- many attend, few understand." ~ Leo Durocher

by The Lip on May 24, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reads are easier in center, just more ground to cover.

Usually, a ball hit to right may go straight or may slice even farther right, and a ball hit to left may go straight or hook even farther left. So for a center fielder, a ball to your right you run right, a ball to your left you run left. For a right fielder though, a ball at you or to your right may or may not come back to your left. I think thats what he means by easier reads.

As for depths, which is like 90% of the difficulty in getting a good read, I do not believe any position has an advantage over the others.

I think center is more challanging simply because you have to patrol more ground. Plus, the way balls slice away from you mean you have to really have great range. For corner out fielders those balls either come back to you or end up in foul ground.

by californiachicagoan on May 24, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bob Brenly

is Lou’s mouthpiece.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

On what do you base this comment?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That the hobby horses of Brenly this season

have matched Lou’s aims. Brenly continually praises Theriot’s defense, continually urged the idea that Pie is not ready; he was calling out Soriano for coming back too soon after the first DL trip, something Lou later basically admitted he couldn’t/wouldn’t say directly himself.

It may or may not be conscious on Brenly’s part. It may only be that Brenly and Lou see the Cubs in very similar ways and in talking to one another, they may be reinforcing one another’s opinions. But if you look at what Brenly has been advocating, it has matched every controversial move Lou has either made or been looking to make.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect they see things in similar ways...

... especially since Brenly was once a manager. I’m not sure of his managerial tendencies, but I’ll bet if you looked they’d be remarkably similar to Lou’s.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have

heard him question a few of Lou decisions this year, and last year. But Brenly is right for the most part, Pie wasn’t ready, Theriot can make good defensive plays and other stuff.

by cubsfan25 on May 24, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does Dome need better reads?

Isnt the problem who the defensive liability in right would be?

by californiachicagoan on May 24, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why Not Both?

I’d like to see a starting pitcher added before the deadline, but why not a lefty hitter, if for no other reason, so Piniella will quiet down about this need for a lefty bat. Since San Diego will probably be looking to unload some people come July, what about Brian Giles and move Fukudome to center?

Santo Forever!

by BeerCub on May 24, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wallet's not fat enough to get both unless we get lucky or creative.

Barring a surprise trade of a guy like Rich Hill, we don’t have the resources to trade for both. To get the lefty slugger he has to be of the caliber to potentially hit ahead of Soto – that will cost big. Then to get a starter who is reasonably better than Marshall/Lieber will cost even more. We probably can’t afford both.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking Giles

was just the sort of guy they might get. Even though he doesn’t actually hit home runs anymore.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How bad would it be for Micah to be in CF

The Cubs promised Soriano that he would bat lead-off and they are sticking with their commitment to him

The Cubs promised Fukudome he would play RF and i expect they will honor their commitment to him too.

How bad defensively could Micah be in CF? Would it be worth him maybe not getting to a ball once a week that another (Edmonds?) could? I love seeing him pound doubles and HR’s – even if he doesn’t get to everything Edmonds may?

How bad defensively is he really in CF?

Favorite Game - 'The Sandberg game" June 23, 1984

by Cub Fan Mike on May 24, 2008 8:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It would be bad, very bad.

Micah’s a 1B, not an OF. He’s going to have trouble playing RF or LF, let alone CF. As the Cubs found with Soriano, it’s not just speed that makes for a good CF. You’ve got to get good reads off the bat. You’ve got to help organize the whole OF so people don’t run into each other. Micah’s going to miss at least a ball a week in RF.

There’s a reason guys like Mark DeRosa who can play multiple positions well are so valuable and rare.

by DGU on May 24, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Career first basemen don't become good outfielders at age 28.

Just like aging hitters don’t recover their power at age 38.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

that 1st basemen can’t become good or decent outfielders at age 28. I’m sure plenty of guys moved from the infield to outfield and were decent or good fielders. I really don’t see a huge difference from moving from infield to outfield at age 23-24 to 28. All players are different, it depends on how they react to doing it, so there’s a chance Hoffpauir could be a better outfielder then some think.

by cubsfan25 on May 24, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name one.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First baseman that moved to the OF and was decent to good.

no idea why that got cut off.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t have time to look up a list right now, but It’s had to happen plenty of times before in situations like this. When you have a star player at first, and a hitter in Triple A is hitting himself into the line-up so they have to move him to another postion. It’s impossible to think that every guy was a bad defender. Alot depends on the guys skills and how he adjust to playing outfield. Some can do it, and some can’t and always will be bad outfielders.

by cubsfan25 on May 24, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want proof.

Why does it have to have happened?

He looks like a galoot out there. It’s not going to end well.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't freak out

relax, and see how what happens, before saying it’s not going to end well. Lou isn’t a idiot and isn’t going to keep putting Hoffpauir out there if his defense is so bad that it’s costing us games. There’s nothing wrong with tweeking things, and trying new things over the course of the season to see if it could possibly make the team better. When fans don’t like something they freak out and act like it’s set in stone Hoffpauir will be in RF playing bad defense for the next 100 something games. For all we know Hoffpauir might be decent after a little bit of time, or he could be so bad in a game that Lou never puts him out there again.

I think winning the division last year, and having the best record in the NL right now should tell us just to trust Lou, and to stop second guessing him and questioning every little thing he might do. The guy wants to win just as bad as us, and has a track record to back it up. Lets just see how things play out, before we freak out about him making moves that could potentially mess things up.

by cubsfan25 on May 24, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't see why..

.... he wants to install a 28-year-old career minor league first baseman as the starting right fielder on a team that’s supposed to be a WS contender, and that has been winning anyway.

It just makes no sense at all.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Message to Hendry?

“Look, Jim, we gotta have a lefty slugger in the OF, and if you’re not going to provide me with one then you leave me no alternative than to put a career minor league 1B out there!”

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, maybe that's what he said.

But the fact is, there really isn’t a LH “slugger” available, unless you want the carcass of Ken Griffey Jr. (and his multigazillion dollar option for 2009 which kicks in if he’s traded).

Me, I’ll stick with what we’ve got. Again: if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Inclined To Agree

I don’t see Junior getting traded to a division rival, and Barry Bonds…well, ‘nuff said. Other BCBers have warned me about Raul Ibanez, and Johnny Damon is running on fumes. So unless Detroit totally tanks and wants to peddle Carlos Guillen, or the same with SF and Omar Vizquel, I’d just as soon shuffle the lineup so it’s:

DeRo
Dome
Lee
ARam
Soto
Sori
Pie
Theriot
P

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is more,

Hoffpauir moves like Dunn out there. He’s stiff, a bit awkward, and not exactly fleet of foot. He doesn’t have the tools or the experience to jump into a starting OF position for a team that’s going to be in contention all year long.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

if he’s as bad as Dunn out there then he shouldn’t be considered as a everyday outfielder. But I haven’t seen enough of Hoffpauir in the outfield and I don’t think anybody on this board really has yet to make a fail judgement yet. I don’t think he will be good ever, but there’s still a chance he could be decent at some point. But Hoffpauir also isn’t going to be playing right everyday with the RH/LH platoon thing with Johnson still. Plus I’m sure Lou would do the late inning defensive replacement around the 7th inning.

by cubsfan25 on May 24, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re:

I don’t think he will be good ever,

So why downgrade the defense? This team is hitting the hell out of the ball without him. At this point in the season, it’s an utterly superfluous and likely harmful move.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Lou isn’t very confident we will keep hitting this well. Many are still waiting for Theriot to drop off, Fukudome could drop off some, and so could Soto. If those three guys struggle for a little while and we have problems with CF, our offense could become average. Lou still hasn’t made this move, he might not for sure yet. But there’s nothing wrong with throwing around idea’s to possibly try to add another bat in your line-up.

by cubsfan25 on May 24, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YOU CAN'T BE FRIGGIN SERIOUS?

Cubs 2008 (28-17)
Home (19-8) | Road (9-9) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 20, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is Dome against playing center

I understand we told him he would play right when he signed, but does he have some aversion to center? Or are we just assuming?

by californiachicagoan on May 24, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LMMAO!!!

Where did you get that from? That’s hilarious.

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The original is a Cubs version....

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the original was done

by the “CubsFun” guy, who I think posted here back in the day. The CubsFun guy had some great Cub-related photoshops back then.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And they're still online

at this site.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simply beautiful

what else can you can

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on May 24, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my only worry

is that on the road, the Cubs seem to have amazing first games where they blow out the other team—and then lose the next two by one or two runs.

I know we pwn the Pirates, but I’ll be happy to see a win tonight. At least that makes us .500 for this trip, and nearly .500 on the road for the year.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 9:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Al, about the crowd last night...

It was much larger than usual. It was partially due to the holiday weekend and the fireworks night but there were A LOT of Cubs fans. A lot. During the 7th inning stretch, I could clearly hear “Root Root Root for the CUBBIES!” It was great.

Bleeding Cubbie Blue since 1985.

by Bricks and Ivy on May 24, 2008 10:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Everywhere you looked on TV...

... you saw people wearing blue. I suspect this will be the case virtually everywhere on the road this summer.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What should I do when I go to Toronto in June?

Blue will just blend in…. can’t wear red….. any thoughts?

Go ahead, Z me.

by tony412 on May 24, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have to wear blue.

That’s the Cub color. We’ll still outnumber them.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll be in Toronto

for the Sunday game, getting in on Saturday afternoon. Any tips on going to a game at the Rogers Centre, or enjoying baseball in Toronto?

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There will be plenty of tickets...

... they’ll likely draw 30-35,000, but the place holds 50,000. Toronto is a great city, lots of things to do and see, if you are getting in on Saturday afternoon and not going to the game, go see the CN Tower, walk along the Harbourfront, go to Yorkville (Toronto’s version of NYC’s SoHo). That’s just a start.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd love to go to the Saturday game

but it starts at 1pm and my flight gets in at 3. I got a good seat already for the Sunday game. I figured about the Tower; thanks for the other suggestions.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

John, check your email for more info.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you're into hockey, the Hockey Hall of Fame is in Toronto

very cool – lots of exhibits and memorabilia on display. I always get a kick out of seeing stuff like the evolution of the goalie’s mask. IIRC, they also had lots of photos of goalies, before they had masks – many with a face only a mother could love…. ;-)

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 24, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn't It In Minnesota?

Or always in Toronto?

That said, Toronto is a great city and my wife and I had a great time up there many years ago.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a huge hockey fan

but I’ll keep that in my back pocket, because I am a fan of things like “the evolution of the goalie’s mask”...

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I feel much better now.

But last season I was of the opinion that the balanced schedule was better. This season I am 100% convinced. The Cubs are a good team that struggles on the road. (I now consider Pittsburgh to be a 2nd home location.) I am willing to give up games against the Cardinals if it means a more realistic picture of the team that I am watching. It would also mean fewer Yankee/red Sox games, which I happen to love, but they’ll probably play in the playoffs anyway.

If I were Commissioner I would end the farce of the All-Star game determining home field in the WS and I’d return to the balanced schedule. I’d also adopt the DH for the NL and Big Z could be the pop that we need everyday in the lineup, oh the irony.

regarding Soriano, yes the injury appears to still be there. I’d like to see Pie get another shot although I can understand if the team feels that it is better for him to earn that next call-up.

The stats on the Cubs O are remarkable and so refreshing for a team so steeped in offensive ignorance the last few years. I was listneing to Padres v. reds last night on the radio and the Padres announcer was bemoaning how the reds are last in PH in the NL and they just got a PH (everything going bad for the Padres type of comment). But I chuckled to myself recalling the horsecrap bench that the Cubs had because management valued OUTs over production (in their ignorance).

The club is moving int he right direction this season but I don’t see a dominant team, just a good team with a good chance and I love it.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I HATE

the DH. Ew ew ew ew ew.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I shared your opinion years ago. However,...

...as time has paced I view the NL’s pitcher hitting as a relic that serves little purpose other than to show how awful pitchers are at hitting. In retrospect it should have been a uniform DH when it was instituted, IMO. In general, i think NL fans would love the results as they’d get much more offense right away and most would take in exchange for the tired double switch—I would.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the DH

makes managing much easier. I think it reduces the intricacy of the game, and I would prefer to junk the DH, if that was a choice.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i have no idea what is supposed to be more desirable about “more offense”. this is not football. there should not be separate offensive and defensive team. every player should playe both offense and defense. the dh is used to give a job to old players who have no business playing the game anymore.

i hate the dh.

"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella

by anormal on May 24, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The DH can be used for older guys who can't run...

...or even waddle for that matter, but in my opinion the pitcher hitting has no business in the game. One could make a stronger argument based on lack of production that having the pitcher hit is a total give away and a joke. Pitchers do not practice hitting at any level, which is why they shouldn’t be hitting at MLB level. In fact, the offensive numbers for pitchers in general is so overwhelmingly horrific compared to the rest of the league that it makes a strong case for doing away with them hitting, if for no other reason then it is not currently taken seriously. What is taken seriously? Bunting.

Yes, when the players are not required to work on the craft at any level, they aren’t evaluated based on their production at this particular craft—at any professional level, then it does not upset me if they do away with that requirement for pitchers in the NL. For all intents and purposes they have done away with it, but for tradition sake they still go up there and make out after out after out.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correction to my previous post...

...Instead of saying that pitchers do not practice hitting, what I should have said is that pitchers are not scouted for hitting talent/skill nor are they expected to develop hitting skills and contribute offensively at any professional level. Obviously pitchers “practice” hitting in the sense that they goof off in batting practice or take BP just so they know what it feels like to hold a bat and make contact.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well Said

“A good club with a good chance” pretty much sums up how I feel about the Cubs.

Now if I were Commissioner, I would end the farce of the All-Star Game…period.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like the balanced schedule.

You really want to see the Rockies as many times as the Cardinals? I don’t.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keeps Things Fair

I’d prefer that all the NL clubs play all the others the same amount of games, so there’s no built-in advantage of beating up the bottom feeders in your own division while playing the other division’s powerhouse only 6 times. And yes, I understand that would mean less times that the Cubs would play the Pirates.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I would.

It makes every Cardinal game much more intense and although I’d like more of them the unbalanced schedule distorts results too much, even individual stats should be biased from the unbalanced schedule. I haven’t researched this, but it’s what I’d expect.

The Commissioner needs, as part of vision for the game, a plan for increasing the general appeal of the game without relying on every player being shot up with meth and steroids. One part of this vision should include standardization (sounds sterile but isn’t really) that promotes attributes that has appeal to fans and is good for the game itself. This is subjective and an art, but vision isn’t really science. The Commissioner and the owners need to embrace and promote the national appeal of their product. They should go even further and start investing heavily in China but I doubt many owners want to part with their cash for long-run returns. They still are so reluctant to use the internet to maximize because so much is focused on protecting local advertising and local attendance. I think with the steroids scandal baseball could use a major change to increase national appeal and I think balanced schedule and the DH are good steps.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So - WHY Hoff-Power?

Lou has liked Hoff-Power! since last spring training. He got injured and missed a good part of the season or he would have been called up for sure in September.

This ST, he also mashed the ball. He is more athletic than DWard, but obviously does not have the MLB track record of success.

To his credit, Lou wants to make the team BETTER. Is this a problem for some of you?

Edmonds stinks at the plate, Pie is still not ready, Dome not drving it yet, and the dominant pitchers in the Central are RH (save Sheets, who will be on the DL several times anyway this year).

This is one of the main reasons Lou is “obsessed” on a LH hitter who can drive the ball.

IMO, the main issue I have for this team is pitching. We really need to win the one-run games, and the low scoring affairs. Right now, the #4 and #5 slots are truly enigmas to the Cubs. You can do well with 3 pitchers in the Playoffs, but not during the regular season.

by The E-Man on May 24, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My problem is that Lou wants to make this team better...

...by making our outfield defense worse while working a marginal hitter into the lineup. I’d rather he made the team better by actually making the team better.

by cwyers on May 24, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He can make the team better by dumping Edmonds

And bringing back Pie. You’re gonna get the same production at the plate from either of them… so, at least upgrade your defense in CF with Pie.

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

amen.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree on this point....

...IMO, with respect to the OF, Lou is getting too caught up with the marginal value of matchups and so the tail wags the dog. We may even have a guy in our system who has a historical OPS at MLB level that suggests that he’s a huge improvement over Pie, Edmonds and whatever today. But since he doesn’t make the all sacred match-up criteria he’s not here. I am not 100% sold on this player but after seeing Pie and Edmonds look pretty bad at the plate from the left side, I’d start asking myself whether this match-up concern is such a concern?

Is Palmeiro still around? Maybe he’d like to play some OF for the Cubs, I hear that he hits left handed.

by DudeVf11 on May 24, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LSA

from a guy that doesn’t even like using “LSA”!

If not Palmeiro then what about Bobby Murcer?

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LSA

..the idea of moving Dome to CF and weakening two outfield spots defensively is flat out stupid.

Sorry Lou….you’re being stubborn, not logical.

The answer for team leading the ML in runs scored is and was Pie in CF.

Felix Pie must play everyday!

by JB 23 on May 24, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sheets is right-handed.

Alan Trammell: Assistant (to the) Manager

by northsider on May 24, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm trying to put together that list of dominant pitchers in the NL Central.

Help me out…

Big Z
Edinson Volquez
Sheets
And the 2007 versions of Harang and Oswalt.

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gallardo

Cueto will be eventually

Manny Parra can be, but he’s pretty erratic

"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." - Joe Morgan, Sunday Night Baseball 8-12-07

by gary varsho on May 24, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know this wont happen but i would cll texas come july 31st

and say pie, hill, and veal do we have a deal for hamilton?

Chicago doesnt have good coke does it?

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 12:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh stop

the kid has turned his life around. It’s a feel-good story and he doesn’t deserve swarmy comments.

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on May 24, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

its a serious question

a move could fuel him… espescially to a huge city. i want the best for him. i am glad he is clean

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it won't "fuel him".

That’s an irresponsible statement. FWIW, Dallas-Ft. Worth Metroplex has an estimated population of 6.1 million. That’s a pretty “huge city”.

Two further comments: what you said is, as I said above, completely irresponsible. Please don’t make comments like this on this site again. It makes all of us look bad.

Second, Hamilton isn’t going anywhere. He’s the best player on the Rangers and could be a MVP candidate. Why would they trade him?

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who are the batting instructors in the Rangers organization?

And how can we get them in our organization?

Cubs 2008 (29-19)
Home (19-8) | Road (10-11) | 1-Run Games (5-5) | Extra Innings (4-2)
Updated on May 24, 2008

by SackMan on May 24, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

amen

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't spell his name

Jammerio or something like that.

"Have You heard of the Boom on Mizar 5?"

by Grockcubs on May 24, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It makes sense

for that type of deal they could get two pitchers that are/were highly regarded the top prospect n the system that plays his position and get yourself ready to land the #1 pick next year when the San Diego State pitcher is supposed to be Prior esque. Youc could maybe throw a couple more players in the deal. Maybe even Vitters as PTBNL and draft Darnell with a compensation pick

2 other things.

1. I really did not mean that as a snide comment and i apologize if it was taken that way. I want nothing but the best for the kid but a city of over ten can lead to problems. Cincy and Arlington (i know it is close to Dallas) are not in the same league as chicago. That being said i am sorry.

2. Drug problems are serious things and relapses can happen at any point. That is why any deal for him is inherently risky and that subject is the 3000 pound elephant in the room that cant be ignored.

Once again i am sorry for the comment but it wasnt meant as a wise crack . Really sorry if this double posts my cPU messed up but this is important

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It does appear...

... that Hamilton has gotten clean and stayed clean. I am aware that relapses can happen. But hats off to the kid, who has rescued not only his baseball career but his life.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree it is a great story

him and doug davis…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amplification

“Second, Hamilton isn’t going anywhere. He’s the best player on the Rangers and could be a MVP candidate. Why would they trade him?”

In addition, Hamilton is making less than $1M and the Rangers are in serious talks with his agent about a long term deal.

Bottom line: Josh figures to be in a Rangers uniform for some time to come.

by azjazzman on May 24, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's a great trade for both teams.

The Rangers get a solid hitter who could be their franchise for years to come.

The Reds got a top quality pitcher who could be… oh, wait. I forgot who his manager is.

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he is really good....

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 12:33 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I was not worried

about the team. They are nothing like last years team. I love that some players can have off games and others on the team kick it in and make things happen. That’s the sign of a good team.

I don’t even know what to think about Soriano. If he’s not hurt like he says he needs to get his giddy up going.

I just hope they saved some runs for tonight.

by sue369 on May 24, 2008 1:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Lou's single minded quest

of finding a left-handed power bat for this lineup causes me some concern. And to try to get that from the center field spot is extremely questionable.

Center field is a defensive position and Lou should know that. Any suggestions of putting Hoffpauir in right or center are ridiculous. The problem with the lineup is that the traditional power positions are all right-handed. None of these players are going anywhere anytime soon, so Lou seems intent on getting that power left-handed bat from center field. Either getting a power hitting CF or moving Dome to CF to obtain his goal. The odds of getting a LH power hitting CF are slim beacause there are so few of them in the league.

I contend that with the production we are getting from Soto and DeRo, the need for a power left-handed bat is over emphasised. What the lineup needs is more left-handed presence. This team hits RH pitching well enough that the need is only for a descent LH bat to force RH pitchers to adjust their release point and to break up the RH batters in the lineup.

The aim should be to get the best defensive outfield possible. The production from the rest of the lineup allows for this team to need less offensive production from CF. Whether or not Pie is the solution in CF may be for another discussion, but don’t make the team weaker defensively by trying to get a LH power bat that this team does not need.

"Hats for bats.....keep bats warm." - Pedro Cerrano
"Hey bartender, Jobu needs a refill !!!!!!!" - Eddie Harris

by willie mays hayes' gloves on May 24, 2008 1:17 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

The Answer's In Front of Lou

If he’s still worried that the lineup as-is will flatten out, then what you do is rearrange the batting order so that hitters with historically stronger OBPs than Sori and Theriot are at the top. No need to go outside the organization to satisfy an urge just based on some mythical theory of “balance”.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of rearranging the order

Aramis has a 50 point edge in OBP to Lee this year, while Lee is slugging 20 points better. Maybe Aramis should be our 3, and Lee our 4? Actually, Soto is outslugging everyone, so maybe put him cleanup? Aramis, Soto, Lee?

by californiachicagoan on May 24, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"It ain't broke. Don't fix it."???

Maybe the team as a whole is not broke, but Soriano’s legs certainly are. I only saw the first few innings last night, but there was more than enough evidence to suggest that he is still hurting. And no, it’s not in his head – even Manny couldn’t be that flaky.

Yes, it’s great that he’s still raking the ball, and I suppose he could always adopt the Willie Stargell philosophy “When I hit those long taters, I don’t have to run.”. But that long single (by Bay?) that dropped between him and Reed should have been caught. And in the first inning, he should have tagged up on the fly out to right but he didn’t. Then he got lucky that Nady didn’t catch the next ball, because he was already jogging around third – no way could he have gotten back to second. Granted these ‘lapses’ don’t matter much in a 12-3 victory, but sooner or later they’re going to bite us in the rear and cost us a game or two.

I didn’t catch any post-game coverage – is he still denying that he’s hurt? If so, I’m wondering who’s buying it. If not, then why is Lou still playing him? Again, I love the bat, but if he can’t run faster than me out there, something needs to be done. The way he’s playing now, I just feel like there’s a little clock ticking in the background – sooner or later it’s going to go off, and boom – he’s out for 2-3 months.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 24, 2008 2:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah when Soriano ran it was obvious something was wrong

it was painful to just watch and he was like “huh, what is everyone talking about?” And I was like c’mon Fonzie and you looked like you were working with one leg or something… He needs to be honest a little more…

by blueivy on May 24, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Chronic Case of Hero-itis

Plays through pain, takes mighty HR cuts most times at bat…

I appreciate Sori’s heart and effort but common sense would dictate that he rest until his legs are 100%. Then what you do is call up Murton to play LF and hit towards the top of the order.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

it is May after all and no need for Fonzie to risk anything futher…

by blueivy on May 24, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We Don't Need Superman

when we have our own League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Give Sori time to recuperate, then tell him to just stay within himself when he’s ready to play again.

by SecondSon on May 24, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not a negative.

I just think it makes no sense to play “thru pain” as you put it, in May when most of the season is still ahead of you and the guarantee of post-season success is a long ways away. Plus I maintain it’s a lot more than pain. You can play through pain and still do your job – it just hurts like hell, either during or afterwards. IMO, Soriano is physically unable to perform at an acceptable level on the bases and in the field.

Curt Schilling on the mound with a bloody sock is definitely an example of playing through pain. But if he’s not being effective, I guarantee you he would have been pulled in a heartbeat. Soriano is still being very effective with the bat. Very effective. Extremely effective. But if he continues to run just fast enough to get to the next base, it’s gonna cost us at some point.

I’m not questioning his manhood or his ability. In fact, I’d say he’s playing ‘smart’ in that he recognizes his limitations right now and he’s pushing himself just enough to get the job done, because he wants to play, stay in the game and help the team.

In fact, the scenario I fear the most is one where all of a sudden he realizes that the play is going to be closer than he thought, so he puts on that extra burst of speed, because he wants to score or make the catch. And that extra burst turns into a big ‘pop!’ and his quad or hamstring explodes. Now we’re talking 2-3 months without one of our big sluggers.

The only thing I fault Soriano for is continuing to deny he’s hurt, if in fact that’s what he’s doing. I haven’t seen or read anything with a direct quote from him lately. If anything, I’m fixing a long hard stare at Lou and wondering why he doesn’t do his job and manage Soriano better. Soriano’s not going to take himself out of the lineup – that’s Lou’s job.

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 24, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did deny being hurt

This was likely reported somewhere here before, but in today’s Trib he said:


“My body is feeling good,” said Soriano, who was on the disabled list with a strained right calf in April. “I was a little scared because I didn’t do anything the last two days. I lost my confidence. Tomorrow I think I’ll be good.”

Piniella had a similar conversation earlier.

“I said, ‘What’s wrong?’ ” Piniella recounted. “He said, ‘It’s confidence.’ I guess I have to check with his confidence tomorrow.”

I appreciate your viewpoint, but I take a different perspective. I think he’s in denial and doing not what’s best for the team. I don’t dislike the guy but I have a tough time figuring him out.

It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa

by Emelie on May 24, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your point is well taken about Soriano.

I suspect he’s headed back to the DL. If so, yes, the Cubs will need another power bat in the OF. But Micah Hoffpauir doesn’t fill that bill.

(Cue the Barry Bonds discussion, in 3-2-1….)

"That's my opinion and if you don't like it, well, I have others." ~ Groucho Marx

by Al on May 24, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

any reason to believe that Soriano will be headed to DL

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It concerns me

that Soriano is trying to foist his poor running off as “lack of confidence.” That tack doesn’t ring true and, to me, seems self-deluding at best.

It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa

by Emelie on May 24, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you think he's hurting?

If that’s the case, he’s not self-deluding, he’s just…..lying.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't put self-deluding

and lying in the same basket. I’m not a psychologist but it’s possible he just doesn’t want to admit to himself or anyone else that he’s hurting. I kinda like the guy, so I don’t want to damn him with the lying brush. I just wish he would put the team first.

It's fun to be a Cub right now. -- Mark DeRosa

by Emelie on May 24, 2008 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not necessarily damning him

It’s part of competing. Don’t let the other team know you’re hurting, etc. Gimpy players who can still hit home runs are sometimes allowed to play through injuries, although Lou’s reaction during and after the game make it seem like that isn’t the case this time. This isn’t the first time he’s made this comment. It happened right after he came off the DL, as well, he said some of the exact same things. He may really be freaked out about possibly hurting his legs for the third or fourth time in a calendar year, after never having hurt them before.

"Is there anything he can't do?" ~Len Kasper, 4/5/08, on Kosuke Fukudome

by JohnM on May 24, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The difference between lying and self-delusion

I can answer this ‘cause I’ve been there. Not in baseball, but in track, as a long-distance runner. I had set goals for myself that I could only have reached with a perfect season, and the better runners on the team were focusing on different events than I was. When I got injured halfway through the year I really wanted to be back quickly because I wanted to make my goals and help the team with the couple points I could score.

It wasn’t that I was lying and saying I wasn’t in pain. There was no point, I obviously couldn’t run correctly. But I wanted the injury to be on the downswing so I could make my goals and not look like a liar for stating them, so I wouldn’t be a guy that was trusted to cover an event and then let everyone down. I wanted the injury to be dying away, and thought it was, every time I tried to come back at full speed. I ultimately failed to do that several times and lost a lot of ground before finally getting back and running some decent times right at the end of the season. I think I would have been better if someone had talked some sense into me and told me to hit the bike and pool until the pain was actually gone. But everyone else wanted the injury to be over quickly as much as I did.

by aldimond on May 24, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where was your coach?

As with Soriano, I don’t fault your thinking or your approach – you’d have to be half Vulcan to be able to take a step back, self-assess and realize you’re hurting the team, ergo you should stop.

But where was your coach in all this? Shouldn’t he/she been the one to talk some sense into you, and if that didn’t work, then bench you (or whatever it’s called in track)?

Lou Brown: "My kinda team, Charlie, my kinda team..."

by ballhawk on May 24, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he's unwilling the run 100%

that could - could - result in the kind of ginger trotting he’s doing. He just needs to open it up.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just think of this lineup if we signed Bonds

Soriano RF
Dome CF
Lee 1B
Bonds LfF
Ramirez 3B
Soto C
DeRosa 2B
Theriot SS

salivates…

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 3:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

just think of the fractured clubhouse

no, thank you.

2008: The year we put it all together.

by drewishdrewid on May 24, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

salivates?

“cringe” is more like it.

"I'd rather win ugly than lose pretty," -- Lou Pinella

by anormal on May 24, 2008 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder how much it would take to get Dunn and put him in RF

Veal Samarzidja and E Patt? Pie maybe

"I played with one of the best pitchers in history, Greg Maddux," Zambrano said"

by fischisgod on May 24, 2008 3:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

What's all this anti-Dome fielding stuff?

Did I miss some plays he blew? He’s a solid RF’er. Don’t move him. He reads the ball off the bat well, has good speed and a good arm. Everyone has to remember this guy is coming over to MLB from much different land, totally different atmosphere, he has a new-born back home and he’s making all kinds of adjustments. Put him in RF, keep him in RF, hit him anywhere between 1 and 5 and we’ll be very, very happy.

Actually I think he’d do well in CF but part of the reason why he signed here (for less money I hear than a couple other teams, one of them that plays 9 miles South) is he was told he’d get RF the vast majority of the time.

Honestly now, the team is scoring at a good clip, consistently. Their 10 over and need to continue the pace or even slightly improve. Get out of PGH with a couple more wins and start improving the win percentage against teams whose city name doesn’t start with Pi.

by blackhawk24 on May 24, 2008 5:10 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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